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mahhy	Posted - 2005.02.15 20:50:00 - [91] Originally by: Rivek What sacrifices does a geddon or apoc pilot make to use megapulse lasers with such spectacular and devestating effect? To be completely fair here I don't think many people are very afraid of Armas or Apoc with MP, unless they have a full rack of T2 Heatsinks in the low slots. In that sense a gank'a'amarr pilot is sacrificing all defence. Its just a small point to make. I still agree that MP have too much range.
Nafri	Posted - 2005.02.15 20:51:00 - [92] Edited by: Nafri on 15/02/2005 20:55:21 Originally by: Alowishus Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Alowishus I just want to be able to still hit 35km away for NPC hunting. This should be possible with Radios, an optimal of 20km and skills. If they do anymore than a nudge I'm going to be **ed and start using projectiles on my Apoc When can I start NPCing with my Blasters at 35km?? no, 500k and 1mio BS will orbit you at 47km I fly Amarr BS so I fight Sansha's which have BS that orbit at 35km. I presume that if you have a Megathron you should be fighting Serpentis which orbit a lot closer than 35km. You want to fight Sansha then train up Amarr BS and lasers. If you want every BS to do what every other BS can do then you're an idiot. That would ruin the game. Wanna fly with me?**
Alowishus	Posted - 2005.02.15 20:53:00 - [93] I'm for boosting Hybrids. I'm against nerfing Mega Pulse? Why? Because I fly an Apoc to NPC hunt and seven of them can't kill **** in a timely manor and I have good gunnery/laser skills. I think the solution here is to give Blasters a good boost to the damage modifier only, and then give Megathrons two MWD bonuses (10% more speed per level, 10% less MWD penalty per level). If you want to knock some optimal off the Mega Pulse (under 10km) that's the only thing I'd be happy with. Rails need to be brough inline with Artilliary only with slightly less range, slightly better DOT and slightly worse tracking. I think making other stuff good again is a far better solution than making everything crap. Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000
Nafri	Posted - 2005.02.15 20:54:00 - [94] Originally by: Alowishus Originally by: Nafri Originally by: mahhy Originally by: Nafri Originally by: mahhy Originally by: Watanabe Hammer ftw, down with no-skills-gankageddon imps. No skills? The gank'a'geddon in particular benefits hugely from high skills it benefits, where other ships need skills to be any usefull And fitting an Arma in any way is exceptionally easy with super low CPU skills or cap skills, right? but thy are not needing much CPU at all try to fit a megathron without meta modules Fitting a Geddon sucks on the power and CPU side. Fitting an Apoc is a lot easier. What fitting are you trying to use on a Mega that has trouble? I barly managed to fit 3x limited ions, 4x modal electrons, arbalest assault launcher mwd, named webber, named scrambler, named injector named armor repair, hardeners and damage mods was out of grid and CPU now try a fitting without named modules Wanna fly with me?
Nafri	Posted - 2005.02.15 20:55:00 - [95] Originally by: Alowishus I'm for boosting Hybrids. I'm against nerfing Mega Pulse? Why? Because I fly an Apoc to NPC hunt and seven of them can't kill **** in a timely manor and I have good gunnery/laser skills. I think the solution here is to give Blasters a good boost to the damage modifier only, and then give Megathrons two MWD bonuses (10% more speed per level, 10% less MWD penalty per level). If you want to knock some optimal off the Mega Pulse (under 10km) that's the only thing I'd be happy with. Rails need to be brough inline with Artilliary only with slightly less range, slightly better DOT and slightly worse tracking. I think making other stuff good again is a far better solution than making everything crap. nope, most agree that megathron/tempest/thyphoon/dominix are the most fun and best working BS, thy just suck compared to the ³ber ships Wanna fly with me?
Nafri	Posted - 2005.02.15 20:56:00 - [96] Originally by: Alowishus Originally by: Jim Raynor Gankageddons aren't hard to kill but a fleet of them vs anything else will more than likely always win though. Flying a MWD Blasterboat around in a fleet battle is basically suicide and ineffective. Except a fleet of Scorps. Nerf EW! Oh, they're doing that. Awesome. I hope they boost mining lasers because that will be about the most rewarding thing to do in the game once they nerf everything to dust. last time I was seeing a Fleet of Scorps thy died pretty fast Wanna fly with me?
Alowishus	Posted - 2005.02.15 21:00:00 - [97] Originally by: Nafri nope, most agree that megathron/tempest/thyphoon/dominix are the most fun and best working BS, thy just suck compared to the ³ber ships I think most Minmatar and Gallente would agree with that but since the game is predominantly Caldari, and there are most certainly more combined Caldari and Amarr than Gallente and Minmatar, your statement is false. You're just dead wrong about uber ships. Sorry. Try killing stuff in an Apoc and you'll see that it's "ok" at best and you'll realize it would be better to make everything "ok" rather than make everything crap. Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000
Nafri	Posted - 2005.02.15 21:04:00 - [98] Originally by: Alowishus Originally by: Nafri nope, most agree that megathron/tempest/thyphoon/dominix are the most fun and best working BS, thy just suck compared to the ³ber ships I think most Minmatar and Gallente would agree with that but since the game is predominantly Caldari, and there are most certainly more combined Caldari and Amarr than Gallente and Minmatar, your statement is false. You're just dead wrong about uber ships. Sorry. Try killing stuff in an Apoc and you'll see that it's "ok" at best and you'll realize it would be better to make everything "ok" rather than make everything crap. you can tank those 10mio chelm spawns with no problem in an apoc my raven could barly tank a BS spawn and 8 turrets, damm, thats nice, isnt it? Wanna fly with me?
Alowishus	Posted - 2005.02.15 21:08:00 - [99] Originally by: Nafri my raven could barly tank a BS spawn and 8 turrets, damm, thats nice, isnt it? My Raven has no problem tanking multiple Angel BS spawns (hardest NPCs in my opinion). Maybe you need a better setup... I don't fit eight turrets because often time life is easier with a smartbomb or a launcher. Maybe I'd do more DOT with 8x Mega Pulse but my life would be a pain in the ass. Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000
Urfin	Posted - 2005.02.15 21:12:00 - [100] Edited by: Urfin on 15/02/2005 21:15:01 Is megapulse overpowered compared to large hybrids - hell yeah. Because large hybrids are crap. Blasters can't hit **** and eat way too much fitting and cap, rails have crap damage. Solution - boost the large hybrids to the point of USEFULNESS, then see if megapulse still seems overpowered. IF it does, nerf it's optimal to 20km or something. But ONLY after making hybrids good. How hard is it to understand nerfing a good gun will NOT fix the bad guns problem, or make anyone happy? Large hybrids will still suck, mega users will still rightfully whine, and if they nerf megapulse too much, we'll start seeing proj apocs again. Along with 'OMG FIX LASERS' whine threads. Boost > Nerf. PS. Is it REALLY that hard to kill a gankageddon? I just can't understand it, it's a no-brainer, extremely limited, predictable and TOTALLY defenceless setup. 'Mega sucks' whine I can understand, because it indeed sucks, but 'omg I got pwnd by a geddon' whine... Pfft. PPS. So much for supporting the whine about boosting mega and hybrids :/ No changes planned for them, but lo and behold, pulses get balanced. I'm getting real gallente-phobic here.
Phades	Posted - 2005.02.15 21:14:00 - [101] The working range of the battle ship sized fittings may be out of whack, in addition to blasters using too much cap and having a little too harsh of fitting requirements; however scaling down the range of the smaller lasers will make using the pulse on a smaller ship difficult considering the fitting options available versus the range, cap need,tracking, and damage they posess.
Alowishus	Posted - 2005.02.15 21:18:00 - [102] Edited by: Alowishus on 15/02/2005 21:19:44 I totally agree with Urfin. Fix hybrids first, re-evaluate. Nafri is off her rocker and can't be reasoned with. She's on the witchhunt/warpath and won't back down until there is six more months of Amarrians *****ing. Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000
Meridius	Posted - 2005.02.15 21:18:00 - [103] Originally by: Alowishus Originally by: Nafri my raven could barly tank a BS spawn and 8 turrets, damm, thats nice, isnt it? My Raven has no problem tanking multiple Angel BS spawns (hardest NPCs in my opinion). Maybe you need a better setup... I don't fit eight turrets because often time life is easier with a smartbomb or a launcher. Maybe I'd do more DOT with 8x Mega Pulse but my life would be a pain in the ass. I think the problem with Nafri is that he just plain sucks at setting up ships. I haven't heard someone *** and moan so much about ships. Raven can tank bs spawns easy**. Proof? Look at lvl4 mission hunters, ravens ftw. ________________________________________________________
Nafri	Posted - 2005.02.15 21:18:00 - [104] Originally by: Alowishus Originally by: Nafri my raven could barly tank a BS spawn and 8 turrets, damm, thats nice, isnt it? My Raven has no problem tanking multiple Angel BS spawns (hardest NPCs in my opinion). Maybe you need a better setup... I don't fit eight turrets because often time life is easier with a smartbomb or a launcher. Maybe I'd do more DOT with 8x Mega Pulse but my life would be a pain in the ass. named stuff of course, well I can tank them till my limited cap is gone Wanna fly with me?
Nafri	Posted - 2005.02.15 21:20:00 - [105] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Alowishus Originally by: Nafri my raven could barly tank a BS spawn and 8 turrets, damm, thats nice, isnt it? My Raven has no problem tanking multiple Angel BS spawns (hardest NPCs in my opinion). Maybe you need a better setup... I don't fit eight turrets because often time life is easier with a smartbomb or a launcher. Maybe I'd do more DOT with 8x Mega Pulse but my life would be a pain in the ass. I think the problem with Nafri is that he just plain sucks at setting up ships. I haven't heard someone *** and moan so much about ships. Raven can tank bs spawns easy. Proof? Look at lvl4 mission hunters, ravens ftw. ohhh now you start hurting my feelings darling ravens relays on killing the spawn before cap goes out, thats not outtanking them, thats outdamaging Wanna fly with me?**
Nafri	Posted - 2005.02.15 21:21:00 - [106] Originally by: Alowishus Edited by: Alowishus on 15/02/2005 21:19:44 I totally agree with Urfin. Fix hybrids first, re-evaluate. Nafri is off her rocker and can't be reasoned with. She's on the witchhunt/warpath and won't back down until there is six more months of Amarrians ***ing. where is Amarrian *ing? Feel like telling me? Wanna fly with me?**
Alowishus	Posted - 2005.02.15 21:24:00 - [107] I used named stuff on my Apoc and my Raven. What's your point? Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000
Meridius	Posted - 2005.02.15 21:24:00 - [108] In general. You people who oppose a boost to hybrids so they don't become 'uber' and say that you think killing ships in 20sec is lame. You really think this is gonna fix that? No such luck, ganking will continue. This might buy the bbq meat a few more seconds, thats it. Hint, there are otehr short range pulse lasers. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.02.15 21:27:00 - [109] Originally by: Alowishus I used named stuff on my Apoc and my Raven. What's your point? Heh, everyone uses named ****. Nafri just likes to moan. ________________________________________________________
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.02.15 21:31:00 - [110] Originally by: Meridius In general. You people who oppose a boost to hybrids so they don't become 'uber' and say that you think killing ships in 20sec is lame. You really think this is gonna fix that? No such luck, ganking will continue. This might buy the bbq meat a few more seconds, thats it. Hint, there are otehr short range pulse lasers. oh ya, nerf range on dual hvy pulse too >_> ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Nafri	Posted - 2005.02.15 21:32:00 - [111] Originally by: Jim Raynor Originally by: Meridius In general. You people who oppose a boost to hybrids so they don't become 'uber' and say that you think killing ships in 20sec is lame. You really think this is gonna fix that? No such luck, ganking will continue. This might buy the bbq meat a few more seconds, thats it. Hint, there are otehr short range pulse lasers. oh ya, nerf range on dual hvy pulse too >_> lol yeah of course, it will be a healthy nerf hopefully Wanna fly with me?
Alowishus	Posted - 2005.02.15 21:49:00 - [112] Originally by: Nafri where is Amarrian ***ing? Feel like telling me? I started playing about a year ago. At the time all the threads in here were Amarrians *ing about how bad lasers sucked. The Tempest was "uber" at the time and not really talked about much. It was mostly Apoc threads, some Raven, some Mega. At the time the Arma was pure crap and "any BS could beat it" according to some. The Minmatar were curiously silent, in fact I remember people saying so in threads and mentioning that Tempest was the perfect BS. I don't remember exactly when it was but I want to say it was about six months ago, projectiles were nerfed and at the same time (or possibly right after) lasers got a much needed boost. All the sudden things in this forum had changed. The Amarrians were silent and the Minmatar were complaining. At the time I thought silence indicated uberness, I even accused Minmatar of complaining only because they were no longer uber. Months went by and people kept producing evidence that the projectiles were crap. I realized that silence indicates people are actually happy and something is working the way it's supposed to. Obviously if you aren't happy you don't see it that way. I see that the laser boost was good and the projectile nerf was bad. Projectiles have finally been repaired after many months. Why go through the same thing with lasers? Why can't we learn from past mistakes and just boost hybrids**? Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000
Lygos	Posted - 2005.02.15 21:54:00 - [113] As a regular amarr pulse lasers user I say there is room for adjustment if it means reshaping and civilizing the role of the megapulse. My pulses on my frigs are fine and I won't cry so long as they retain +80% of their current range. Cruiser pulses are also fine and frankly I wouldn't mind a smaller optimal for every so slightly better tracking. At the battleship level.. well I chose Amarr initially because I wanted to be in the ship everyone was scared to approach too near. The geddon just needs some work. If it just has to have faster lockon time than everyone else.. well, maybe it should at least have a number there like a 1 instead of a zero. It really shouldn't have a lock on modifier smaller than Rifter as that just doesn't make any sense. I always thought Amarr should be the brawler class given their armor and normally simplistic approach to combat. The damage seems justified, but the range is iffy. I think range boosters ought to be harshly dealt with moreso than turrets themselves. If the megapulse deserves any changes, they should not be from a balancing perspective, but from a purely rp perspective. Amarr ships should have a definable, viable, and more unique role. As a general rule though, I dislike nerfings and mythical "balancing." I would prefer that new content and new tools and new battlefiels be implemented to make old techniques obsolete.
Luc Boye	Posted - 2005.02.15 22:01:00 - [114] Originally by: Alowishus Originally by: Jim Raynor Gankageddons aren't hard to kill but a fleet of them vs anything else will more than likely always win though. Flying a MWD Blasterboat around in a fleet battle is basically suicide and ineffective. Except a fleet of Scorps. Nerf EW! Oh, they're doing that. Awesome. I hope they boost mining lasers because that will be about the most rewarding thing to do in the game once they nerf everything to dust. Actually, no. give me 20 geddons and 20 scorps, and I put my money on geddons. Every decent pvper knows it, except ex. PA and nub pirates. -- 2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage.
HeLlRaIzA666	Posted - 2005.02.15 22:02:00 - [115] Edited by: HeLlRaIzA666 on 15/02/2005 22:03:31 SIGNED Mega pulse are fine as they are... they only do more dmg than other ships if you sacrifice defense eg. gankageddon, if you nerf mega pulse, alot of people will be p***ed from the 2 months training for mega pusle t2 -------------------------------------------- In War There Are No Runners Up... Image by Denrace
Bottled Brain	Posted - 2005.02.15 22:04:00 - [116] Now let¦s say the mega pulse keep the way they are. A really good (overpowered)turret. In the name of balance the tracking of medium range hybrids and projectiles gets doubled. Their damage mods get boosted by 50%. We all want mega pulses, they are great... To make a difference between medium range and long range guns (mega beams have lower damage than mega pulse and 6 km more range with multifrequency), the damage mod of the long range guns gets also boosted by 50%. The real short range guns get a damage boost too, to reflect the danger involved. Now the ship hp gets ajusted accordingly. Last but not least the whole signature radius and resolution system has to be rebalanced to give cruisers some love (they get owned too easily by mega pulse lasers). Sounds cool, but instead you could just change ONE gun...
Meridius	Posted - 2005.02.15 22:06:00 - [117] Originally by: Alowishus Originally by: Nafri where is Amarrian ***ing? Feel like telling me? I started playing about a year ago. At the time all the threads in here were Amarrians *ing about how bad lasers sucked. The Tempest was "uber" at the time and not really talked about much. It was mostly Apoc threads, some Raven, some Mega. At the time the Arma was pure crap and "any BS could beat it" according to some. The Minmatar were curiously silent, in fact I remember people saying so in threads and mentioning that Tempest was the perfect BS. I don't remember exactly when it was but I want to say it was about six months ago, projectiles were nerfed and at the same time (or possibly right after) lasers got a much needed boost. All the sudden things in this forum had changed. The Amarrians were silent and the Minmatar were complaining. At the time I thought silence indicated uberness, I even accused Minmatar of complaining only because they were no longer uber. Months went by and people kept producing evidence that the projectiles were crap. I realized that silence indicates people are actually happy and something is working the way it's supposed to. Obviously if you aren't happy you don't see it that way. I see that the laser boost was good and the projectile nerf was bad. Projectiles have finally been repaired after many months. Why go through the same thing with lasers? Why can't we learn from past mistakes and just boost hybrids**? Those were good days. I would moan about apoc/lasers and cap and i would get told "adapt or die" by some random gallente/minmatar pilot Hybrids do need to be fixed. ________________________________________________________
Luc Boye	Posted - 2005.02.15 22:08:00 - [118] How about giving ion blasters same range and tracking as megapulse? I mean that would be equal gun then, same damage, same range, same tracking. Now how many of you amarrians think that would be unfair? Blasters ripping at 60 km? Why not? I'd settle for that, would you? -- 2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage.
Abigale	Posted - 2005.02.15 22:19:00 - [119] The best way is to boost rails or whatever needs it, nerfing is just gonna **** ppl off. Yes i use mega pulse but i guess i start working on my caldari bs and missile skills when mega pulse gets nerfed to hell. We will only see alot more ravens after this, heil caldari.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.02.15 22:19:00 - [120] Originally by: Luc Boye How about giving ion blasters same range and tracking as megapulse? I mean that would be equal gun then, same damage, same range, same tracking. Now how many of you amarrians think that would be unfair? Blasters ripping at 60 km? Why not? I'd settle for that, would you? Or you can have an imagination and increase the dmg mod of the ion therefore making it a lot more rewarding to get in close as well as keeping variation between races. Is that so much of a stretch? As for 60km radio use, i wouldn't mind if short range guns were unable to load long range ammo. I believe this is how tech 2 ammo is going to be handled. Pulse crystals and beam crystals. ________________________________________________________

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