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Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens
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Posted - 2011.06.06 03:01:00 -
[1]
I am planning on bumping my Amarr cruiser skill to 5 mainly so I can fly Guardians, (and that Nightmare looks like it would be awesome to fly in wormholes, great damage, shield tanked, no ammo worries, and 2 extra high slots for a probe launcher and rr, I just might train up Amarr BS and large energy turrets), but with my skills in the other cruiser types, it will open up several T2 ships for me. Given that this will put me closeish to a legion (the subsystem skills don't take a whole lot of time to train), I was somewhat intrigued by it, but I am always told that the Legion sucks, and I should stick to my Tengu.
This has me wondering: Just what the hell is wrong with the Legion that a hybrid/drone platform (Proteus) is held in higher regard?
-Xindi Kraid: Delivering acerbic wit and scathing comments with just a dash of 'stab you in the eye' |
Judicator Saturnius
Amarr
Viziam
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Posted - 2011.06.06 03:15:00 -
[2]
This should help you understand the situation.
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Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
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Posted - 2011.06.06 06:42:00 -
[3]
Long story short is that there's only one or two variations of the Legion that offer a significant advantage over a HAC costing 1/6th the price. Advantages include a substantially higher EHP total than a Zealot and then the whole interdiction nullification thing.
Also, Proteus is held in higher regard, but barely. Legion and Proteus are considered the worst PvP T3s. The one time I've used my Proteus in PvP was in high sec, and I was rolling with a 4x gang link setup that would be totally unviable in a roaming nullsec fleet. Proteus can dish out over 600 DPS with a covert cloak installed, which is pretty awesome if your mission is to kill hapless solo targets in low sec, but not really a major advantage if you're in a gang.
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King Rothgar
Path of the Fallen
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Posted - 2011.06.06 06:53:00 -
[4]
Pretty much what's been said though I disagree on the proteus, I think it's the best solo pvp t3. In any case, the legion has only one viable setup and that's a pure gunboat (ignoring ganglink configs). It's dps is substandard for a t3 in that configuration, it lacks any effective EW and just doesn't do anything special. About the only thing it offers over a harb or zealot is more EHP but compared to other t3's, even that is pretty weak. A gunboat proteus musters 900+ dps with 130k EHP with a navy faction fit, the legion pumps out 600 dps with 120k EHP using more or less the same configuration. The legion has higher scan res/sensor strength but the proteus will have a 20km+ warp scrambler, I'd take that massive scrambler bonus any day.
The cov ops subsystem limits the legion to frigate level dps, for comparison the proteus still pumps out 500-600 dps depending on configuration. The tengu does about the same and I can't comment on the loki. If you try to fit it up like a pilgrim, you'll once again be massively disappointed. It's no better at neuting, loses the TD and actually does less dps which is shocking in of itself. The only things they are good at is incursions (upgraded zealot config) and station camping thanks to their very high scan res. They can also be used to solo C3 WH's reasonably well but the tengu is a lot better at it.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Rebbecca Black
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Posted - 2011.06.06 08:12:00 -
[5]
Train up Amarr Cruiser 5 but don't even bother with the legion unless you just want to burn money. It can be great, but there are so many amazing T2 Amarr cruiser hulls that the Legion can't really shine. PvP - Zealot (AHAC), Guardian, Sacriledge (solo work), Curse (solo work), Devoter (a-ma-zing ehp). PvE - Sacriledge can be decent for some anoms, although the Legion wins out. Legion is nice for pve if you want to fly an effective pve zealot (its the closest thing style wise.) It will never be as effective as a Tengu for PvE, and it isn't as versatile as the Loki.
You will never regret training Amarr Cruiser 5, but the Legion isn't the reason.
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Drykor
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
K162
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Posted - 2011.06.06 10:57:00 -
[6]
They're not that bad and they get a lot of use in wormhole space (pvp and pve) and incursions. Sure they don't do a ton more damage than a zealot but still easily 100 more and with a much bigger tank.
Also, a decent neut legion is like a mini bhaalgorn.
Of course the tengu is generally more useful, but the legion is definitely not worthless.
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Drykor - AHARM |
Dizeezer Velar
Caldari
League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees
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Posted - 2011.06.06 17:45:00 -
[7]
Legion is loads of fun.
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.06.06 17:57:00 -
[8]
Legion got the looks, just not the stats.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
fkingfurious
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Posted - 2011.06.06 18:06:00 -
[9]
Ive been playing about with a neuting Legio.
Its actually not bad but the subsystem combo is ****ing awful and it ever ends up on someones killboard it will get ridiculed. Taken in context tho its pretty decent.
Used strictly in 15 ish man fleets with damnation and logis it can neut 130cap/sec, is cap stable as long as it can nos (5 neut 2 nos), 200k ehp an resists so high that it tanks 1000dps off a single remote rep. Which is pretty impressive.
Unfortunately it needs an ACR, RCU II and the assault opt or liquid mag subsystem (you need the extra low slot) and then doesnt actually fit any weapons. The drone synth sub would sem to be an obvious choice but you lose a low and then cant get enough grid to make it a really nasty neuter. As it it is its second only ot a Bhaalgorn in terms of killing cap and is actually significantly tougher. And looks awesomer.
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Saile Litestrider
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Posted - 2011.06.06 19:17:00 -
[10]
From a PvE perspective, my experience is that you generally pay twice as much for a Legion as you would for a similarly performing Tengu, and then the Tengu applies all its damage at 100+ km, while you're stuck at scorch range.
When I ran wormhole sites, we had proteus, legion and tengu pilots all running self-rep setups. The proteii and legions had to ab around and almost always got very close to popping once they were webbed. The tengu pilots, however, got to sit around in fits that could tank the whole site while stationary, and still apply more dps than us from a far greater range, and they didn't pay any more than us for mods, either.
It was pretty disheartening.
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Centus Commander
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Posted - 2011.06.06 20:26:00 -
[11]
Pff, I fly mine around just to look Bad A*@
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NoLimit Soldier
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Posted - 2011.06.06 20:49:00 -
[12]
I thought the 100mn Brick HAM legion with armor links + armor mindlink + slaves is supposed to be amazing.
All you guys do is whine.
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Daneel Trevize
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.06 21:20:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Daneel Trevize on 06/06/2011 21:23:36
It's initially surprising to many, rather expensive in isk and SP terms, and requiring all that backup in fleet.
OP, I don't quite know why you mention training for a Nightmare while discussing training for a Legion. Other than both wanting medium T2 pulse lasers, they're different SP trees (hullwise, tanking, drones, etc)
It's true Amarr cruiser 5 is awesome, to labour the point, that's partly why the legion isn't as readily loved, the T2 sister ships are so good already. Some are better than it, in other cases it does niche things, like the high scanres, frigate sniping heavy tackler.
Blood raiders stuff is nice looking too. |
Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2011.06.06 22:21:00 -
[14]
 Originally by: NoLimit Soldier
I thought anything with armor links + armor mindlink + slaves is supposed to be amazing.
All you guys do is whine.
FYP
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Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens
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Posted - 2011.06.07 04:12:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Daneel Trevize
OP, I don't quite know why you mention training for a Nightmare while discussing training for a Legion. Other than both wanting medium T2 pulse lasers, they're different SP trees (hullwise, tanking, drones, etc)
This is a 3 year old character. I already have all the requisite tanking and support skills, just need the lasers. From what I see, the Nightmare is an awesome ship, 4 turrets and a 100% damage bonus to large lasers gives it some of the utility of a marauder, lasers don't eat through ammo and it shield tanks making it great for wormholes.
I'm already planning on training Amarr T2 cruisers and T1 Battleships, so I will naturally end up with what I need to fly one. I am asking about the Legion, because I wanted to know if theres any reason whatsoever I should train for one since it would only take a week or two beyond what I already have planned. Seems like the answer is no if the T2 cruisers are going to be sufficient.
-Xindi Kraid: Delivering acerbic wit and scathing comments with just a dash of 'stab you in the eye' |
Quality Poaster SEEEEE
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Posted - 2011.06.07 04:17:00 -
[16]
Better question is why train amarr at all?
Major fleet doctorines in null are shifting to matar shield logi, and it's always been the choice race for lolsec. Never been a better time to chase fotm minmatar in my opinion. Amarr is on the way out.
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Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens
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Posted - 2011.06.07 04:55:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Quality Poaster SEEEEE
Better question is why train amarr at all?
Major fleet doctorines in null are shifting to matar shield logi, and it's always been the choice race for lolsec. Never been a better time to chase fotm minmatar in my opinion. Amarr is on the way out.
and why would I care about major fleet doctrines of FOTM? I live in w-space; PvP engagements are rare and of limited scope due to low population and mass limits.
-Xindi Kraid: Delivering acerbic wit and scathing comments with just a dash of 'stab you in the eye' |
Juliette DuBois
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Posted - 2011.06.07 06:11:00 -
[18]
In 0.0 there are currently two types of BS gang around. One is made out of abaddons with arties or pulses and other is matari gank with arty maelstroms. Neither of these has much to do with medium size gang warfare.
Zealots can be used in shield sniper hac gangs (these are uncommon at the moment) or AB armor gangs (less popular than they were last year). Legion is simply not cost effective, it works just fine for armor gangs but is guaranteed primary so pilot has to be able to take periodic losses with it.
For a versatile pvpers you want to have both amarr and minmatar skills. Top it out with heavy missiles and tengu + drake and CCP will be almost unable to nerf you badly no matter what.
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Kastsumi Kobayariel
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Posted - 2011.06.07 22:36:00 -
[19]
Problems that I know of regarding the Legion are mostly based on how good the T2 amarr cruiser lineup is already. The Legion barely comes off as an upgrade next to the Curse, Zealot, Sacrilege or Pilgrim. There are also a number of important subsystems that are simply underwhelming, such as the Energy Parasitic Complex (neut/nos amount but not range) and the Covert Reconfiguration (cap use for lasers, no damage bonus).
There are a couple roles in which it will excel, but they are either really niche (100mn AB HAM fit, high EHP neut fit) or not necessarily worth the investment compared to what you could get with a HAC or Recon.
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WER386
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Posted - 2011.06.08 00:27:00 -
[20]
I'm not here to judge the Legion, in fact, I'm planning in getting it for lvl4 missions and I was wondering which is the best setup I could give it (subsystems only, I'll manage the rest).
Please avoid mention "things that could happen" out of lvl4 missions (suicide ganks, etc.): I'm using it for high sec PvE exclusively.
Also, if anyone got an Amarrian ship that can take lvl4 missions as overkill more than "depends on your skills" please tell me.
From now thanks.
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Quality Poaster SEEEEE
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Posted - 2011.06.08 01:05:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Xindi Kraid
Originally by: Quality Poaster SEEEEE
Better question is why train amarr at all?
Major fleet doctorines in null are shifting to matar shield logi, and it's always been the choice race for lolsec. Never been a better time to chase fotm minmatar in my opinion. Amarr is on the way out.
and why would I care about major fleet doctrines of FOTM? I live in w-space; PvP engagements are rare and of limited scope due to low population and mass limits.
Mass limitations, armor, think before you post.
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Zack Alen
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Posted - 2011.06.08 14:50:00 -
[22]
Originally by: WER386
I'm not here to judge the Legion, in fact, I'm planning in getting it for lvl4 missions and I was wondering which is the best setup I could give it (subsystems only, I'll manage the rest).
Please avoid mention "things that could happen" out of lvl4 missions (suicide ganks, etc.): I'm using it for high sec PvE exclusively.
Also, if anyone got an Amarrian ship that can take lvl4 missions as overkill more than "depends on your skills" please tell me.
From now thanks.
Legion subs to use for L4 missions:
Nanobot Injector
Dissolution Sequencer
Fuel Catalyst
Liquid Crystal Magnifiers
Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
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Saile Litestrider
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Posted - 2011.06.08 15:12:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Quality Poaster SEEEEE
Mass limitations, armor, think before you post.
Did you know? Once offlined, armor plates no longer count toward a ship's total mass, allowing for easy wormhole jumping.
This fun factoid brought to you by the Foundation for Pseudoscientific Awareness in New Eden.
(and before you go any farther, note that the abaddon is middle-of-the-road when it comes to base mass, behind such heavier contenders as the Rokh and Maelstrom)
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Daneel Trevize
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.08 16:26:00 -
[24]
Because offlining the plate will get in into a C1, and not still rip 90% of the fit's mass from other holes. |
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