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yani dumyat Minmatar Pixie Cats	Posted - 2011.06.09 15:52:00 - [1] As some of you may be aware Scotland recently recently returned its nationalist government with a massive majority, effectively preventing the unionist parties from blocking a referendum on Scottish independence. I'm intrigued to see what people think of this and wonder if this is the beginning of end for the United Kingdom? Northern Ireland have got Stormont where nationalists and unionists have been having what amounts to a love in (at least compared to what they used to be like). Wales has a lot of migration from England but those who do count themselves as Welsh tend to be very Welsh, I find that mentioning the phrase "prince of wales" and then rating the profanity of their response to be a good judge of how nationalistic a Welsh person is. A quick look at Scottish nationalism over the last 50 years tends to show a recurring trend, polls and newspapers repeatedly report that there is no appetite for independence but when put to the ballot box it tells a different story. In 1979 the Scottish people voted to devolve from the UK by a slim majority but Westminster refused to accept the result (60% rule etc), the 1997 referendum saw a bigger majority and we finally got our parliament. In the last two general elections the papers have slammed the SNP and predicted they will lose, both times they were wrong. The huge support for the SNP shown in the last election is I think a sign of what's to come, just consider these facts for a moment: Scotland is ruled from Westminster by a tory/liberal government that we neither voted for nor wanted. (Yay democracy!) The crown estates own the sea bed for several miles out to sea and therefore take a huge chunk of Scottish wealth through wind farms. (Beyond undemocratic, that's blatant feudalism) Scots gaelic and its associated culture is being promoted for the first time since Culloden (1746) All told I think it's the end for the UK.
Wilhelm Riley	Posted - 2011.06.09 15:57:00 - [2] The UK died a long time ago for me, now it's just a festering corpse.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.09 15:57:00 - [3] The most recent polls suggest that the SNP are unlikely to win the referendum. A lot of people voted for them because they like their economic policies and further devolution, not complete independence. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
annoing Amarr Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.	Posted - 2011.06.09 16:45:00 - [4] I personally dont believe it will happen 1) You'll never get your hands on the oil fields like you believe you will, no oil revenue for you. 2) You only get so much done economically because the rest of the UK pays for it, no taxes for you. 3) You have no industry, no work for you If you seriously believe you'll get anything from the oil fields you're in for a major shock, the UK govt wont give up that without a fight and you have no standing army. The Uk will lay claim to all the territorial waters because of national defense etc and you have no navy. My taxes help pay for what the SNP does economially but that will stop, the oil revenue parially goes to you but that will stop and you have no industry outside of whiskey, wool, golf and tourism: good luck in making that pay for all your future free health, free education etc because that will stop. Nothing wrong in having a dream but your 'dream' of an independant Scotland will some turn into as nightmare. Your biggest supporter doesnt even live in your country. Way to go Sean Connery, you set a prime example to all Scots everywhere (in fact, as soon as you get independence, half your population will move south anyway) Byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee This sig is unrelated to any relatives
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2011.06.09 19:10:00 - [5] Originally by: annoing 3) You have no industry, no work for you Yeah, thanks in no small part to your ****ing English Conservative government. What happened LAST time the torries got in? Oh yeah, they shut down or sold all of our industry out from under us. Gee thanks. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
baltec1	Posted - 2011.06.09 19:11:00 - [6] Edited by: baltec1 on 09/06/2011 19:16:20 Those oil fields are past peak now anyway. In around 50 years they will be used up if not sooner. Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: annoing 3) You have no industry, no work for you Yeah, thanks in no small part to your ****ing English Conservative government. What happened LAST time the torries got in? Oh yeah, they shut down or sold all of our industry out from under us. Gee thanks. Hi I live in the north east of england and we lost the pits, shipyards, steal and all the otherheavy industry. I voted conserve because Labor tried to kill off everything else we had left and lol libdems. If the SNP were down here I might have voted for them because while I do not agree with the breaking up of Britain they do seem to be able to do most things right
Blacksquirrel	Posted - 2011.06.09 19:17:00 - [7] Didnt Scotland have to join the UK for economic reasons? A failed attempt at colonization across the pond? What is the perceived benefit to leaving besides say pride? Can Scotland achieve economic independence if it left? Last I check the ole Irish weren't doing to hot, and thus a poor example to follow. But hell I really don't know.
Benilopax Gallente Isotech Engineering	Posted - 2011.06.09 19:23:00 - [8] People vote SNP because they are a liberal party which is popular in Scotland, the Lib Dem vote collapsed in Scotland die to the coalition and tuition fees etc (Scotland have free uni tuition)however if you are liberal and you don't want to vote Lib Dem, SNP is the closest party to your ideology. However polls always have independence at 30:70 to 40:60. It's not impossible, but the Yes campaign will have the media, the conservatives, Labour and Lib Dems opposed. That's a worse foe than the AV referendum. If the SNP get a Yes vote they deserve independence! Enjoy the block grant... OH WAIT! ----------------------------------- New Eden Chronicles: Prime, Coming soon.
yani dumyat Minmatar Pixie Cats	Posted - 2011.06.09 19:24:00 - [9] Edited by: yani dumyat on 09/06/2011 19:26:52 Originally by: Wilhelm Riley The UK died a long time ago for me, now it's just a festering corpse. Problem is the corpse keeps moving like some bad zombie film. Originally by: annoing Stuff Dude, what century are you living in? I've never heard one politician or interested person on either side talk about a shooting match, Scotland and England are family, often literally. Your rant made about as much sense as me saying Scotland's got faslane therefore all we need to do is nuke London, a stupid scenario that would never happen. 1) We lost the oil in 1979, that was last century's argument. Today it's about renewable energy and ensuring the same doesn't happen to the wind farms, Scotland's in a much better position this time round. That said don't be complacent about England walking off with the oil, the companies tapping it are multinational and if Scotland turned off the taps at Aberdeen and Grangemouth it would suddenly become an EU issue. 2) I think you'll find it's Scottish oil that's paying for London, when natural resources are taken in to account Scotland has a higher GDP per capita than England. The age old bogeyman argument of 'big bad England will come get you' is long dead. 3) You are a complete idiot if you think Scotland relies entirely on old industry. Most people I know work in various forms of computing and media while the service, tech and banking sectors are all plenty healthy tyvm. 4) Sean Connery is an arse.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2011.06.09 19:39:00 - [10] Also, another small nugget of contribution: Who sends England all their water supplies in times of need again? Hmm... _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
annoing Amarr Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.	Posted - 2011.06.09 20:01:00 - [11] Edited by: annoing on 09/06/2011 20:02:00 Originally by: yani dumyat Quote: Dude, what century are you living in? The last one when you did as you were told ya daft haggis ffs! Quote: Your rant made about as much sense as me saying Scotland's got faslane therefore all we need to do is nuke London, a stupid scenario that would never happen. Only cos the base is run by the english and and it has no touch fuse for you to light ffs! Quote: We lost the oil in 1979. Deservedly so as well, btw please tell Salmond, if it was all so last century) to stop telling peeps thats how he'll pay for stuff ffs! Quote: Today it's about renewable energy and ensuring the same doesn't happen to the wind farms, Isnt Scotlands biggest wind farm the one where your puppet local govt sit and chat? Quote: with the oil, the companies tapping it are multinational and if Scotland turned off the taps at Aberdeen and Grangemouth it would suddenly become an EU issue. The oil companies are run by johnny foreigner and not by you, you lot are just the tea ladies and cleaners and btw, do you know what a tap is? If you do can you tell your fellow countrymen so they can fill a bath ffs! Quote: I think you'll find it's Scottish oil that's paying for London, I think YOU'LL find its not scottish oil at all as its inside UK territorial waters so come and take it off us ta daft haggis ffs! Quote: You are a complete idiot if you think Scotland relies entirely on old industry. Most people I know work in various forms of computing and media while the service, tech and banking sectors are all plenty healthy tyvm. Banking? You dont mean RBoS do you? Thats owned by the English since they had to stop it collapsing using English taxes FFS! Media, computing? All owned by johnny foreigner tyvm ffs! The only thing you lot have thats all your own is the service sector .. all cleaners and McD's ffs! Quote: Sean Connery is an arse. So true ffs! byeeeeeeeeeeeeee This sig is unrelated to any relatives
Miso Hawnee	Posted - 2011.06.09 20:10:00 - [12] Governments mean next to nothing so long as a Central bank controls your currency.
Jim Pooley The Jeremy Kyle Holding Pen	Posted - 2011.06.09 20:24:00 - [13] I say give the moaning Jocks independance and rebuild Hadrians wall while you're at it. And electrify it. With patrolling attack dogs.
CLONE 9 Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2011.06.09 21:21:00 - [14] I'm sick of the West Lothian question. Someone please address that. Breaking up the UK would be great for Europe ... easier for them to mop up the pieces in to their undemocratic political experiment. However, if Scotland want to go it alone then go for it. I'm sick of hearing the rather tired nationalist rhetoric. If you think you'll be better off then make it happen. We'll all be happier in the long run.
Wilhelm Riley	Posted - 2011.06.09 21:25:00 - [15] Edited by: Wilhelm Riley on 09/06/2011 21:28:07 Originally by: annoing and you have no navy. And England does? Heck, we have to share with France. FRANCE.
Ultim8Evil Ministry Of Eternal Disorder	Posted - 2011.06.09 21:47:00 - [16] I'm all for nationalism within the UK. If the 3rd world alcoholics and sheep shagging coal miners think they can support yourselves, then **** off and see how far you get. I'm sure us english will cope without the great things they provide us with in return for the money Wales and Scotland drain from the English taxpayer. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Sigma Special Tactics Group	Posted - 2011.06.09 22:18:00 - [17] Funny, I was just at a Scottish games event where I talked with some diehard Scotts about this topic. Certainly my girlfriend, the reason why I was there, is going to be dipping into the cabinet tonight in celebration (and being from the same clan from whence it is said William Wallace comes). I best be careful not to mispronounce anything. I think the general theme of things here is that the bigger the country, the more corrupt and costly it becomes. Too much centralization of wealth and military power gives rise to "complexes" such as the Military Industrial Complex, the Medical Industrial Complex, Aggribusiness, and other entities that form a public-private relationship with government that has too much power over time. The special interests buy out the "democracy" with a three pronged attack (money for lobbyists, control of the media to keep people uninformed, control of the state to make sure people are not educated enough to figure anything out) giving us the kinds of so-called "free countries" that we have today. Hopefully it's the end for the UK and that the USA follows. The smaller the nations, the smaller the tyranny. Let the world have 1000s of nations amongst a human race that is too open, too large, and guarding their liberty to such an extent that anyone trying to be a tyrant is merely pretending to be in charge. If England tries to prevent Scottish independence by force, I will gladly come over there and fight - especially if we get to sack York afterwards.
Blacksquirrel	Posted - 2011.06.09 22:26:00 - [18] ^ Study history(funny study Uk history as an apt example), and you'll see that fractioning more often than naught causes strife. Matter of fact because power is then decentralized a different kind of corruption occurs. (Think smaller latin American countries or in the Caribbean)
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island	Posted - 2011.06.09 22:56:00 - [19] Scotland can't have any international relations because no one understands what they're saying Originally by: Xenuria I don't need a LICENSE to take a photoshooped image and lay it on top of the game client and make pretend my character is naked.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island	Posted - 2011.06.09 23:04:00 - [20] Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer If England tries to prevent Scottish independence by force, I will gladly come over there and fight - especially if we get to sack York afterwards. Youtube presents "World's most current one-sided fight caught on film" Originally by: Xenuria I don't need a LICENSE to take a photoshooped image and lay it on top of the game client and make pretend my character is naked.
Vogue Short Bus Pole Dancers	Posted - 2011.06.09 23:14:00 - [21] Edited by: Vogue on 09/06/2011 23:15:22 Well as the UK is an island separate from the western European continent Scotland and Wales can't elope as independents state within the EU. Regional rivalries within countries is common place. A lot of French don't like Paris, a lot of northern Italians don't like the South, Basque Spain does not like the rest of Spain and so on and so on. As someone raised in Birmingham with its manufacturing past I am inclined towards a disdain to spiv London as a pirate citadel for foreigners with a load of money. I suppose I developed a counter to this as being pro European. But in the real world following political ideologies and sentiments alone can lead you to a blind alley. The UK is not as vast as the republic USA so having London as your master is not as bad as say Washington is to Michigan. London though a supra state to the rest of the UK is a center of excellence for media the arts and other high value knowledge industries. And although London pursues a national strategy of having the freest 'open market' in any developed nation overall it is profitable as the UK as a whole receives a lot of foreign investment. If the London establishment can just clean up the banking industry then the city will be less of a cheap tart and more of a dame. The serious thinkers in Scotland and Wales know it is economically impossible for them to become separate from England with the Euro and be competitive. Many smaller European countries have burned from joining the Euro just to make their political elites proud. Though it will rile the Scots and Welsh the stay within the UK it is a lesser evil than chasing a Euro centrist pipe dream. .................................................. Fortress Of Solitude
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2011.06.09 23:30:00 - [22] /channels_inner_ignorant_american Wait, you mean Scotland is like your Texas? /end_channel
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2011.06.10 01:24:00 - [23] Edited by: Blane Xero on 10/06/2011 01:25:31 I guess the general consensus from onlookers is that we're doomed to fail either way. Personally, if we're going to burn I want it to be by our own doing; because then we at least have a chance to fix it. History has shown time and time again that for as long as Scotland is "Part of the UK" that any time we get something good going, it's stripped away and sold for parts. It's better to try and fail than to live in fear and wonders of "What-If" in my book. And besides, if we're such a terrible burden why is the government so against is going our different ways? _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island	Posted - 2011.06.10 02:29:00 - [24] Originally by: Blane Xero Edited by: Blane Xero on 10/06/2011 01:25:31 I guess the general consensus from onlookers is that we're doomed to fail either way. Personally, if we're going to burn I want it to be by our own doing; because then we at least have a chance to fix it. History has shown time and time again that for as long as Scotland is "Part of the UK" that any time we get something good going, it's stripped away and sold for parts. It's better to try and fail than to live in fear and wonders of "What-If" in my book. And besides, if we're such a terrible burden why is the government so against is going our different ways? Because Nessie is awesome Originally by: Xenuria I don't need a LICENSE to take a photoshooped image and lay it on top of the game client and make pretend my character is naked.
Machiavelli's Nemesis Angry Mustellid	Posted - 2011.06.10 08:43:00 - [25] Alec Salmond isn't as stupid as he looks (not possible as he looks like the mutant offspring of a capybara and a weebl), a referendum on scottish independance is highly unlikely to pass and he knows it. He also knows that if the referendum went ahead and the result went against him that's most of his party's campaign platform gone for a couple of decades. He's just using the threat of it to try and grab more financial control from whitehall.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2011.06.10 09:13:00 - [26] Originally by: Sader Rykane /channels_inner_ignorant_american Wait, you mean Scotland is like your Texas? /end_channel No, it's more like our Puerto Rico. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
yani dumyat Minmatar Pixie Cats	Posted - 2011.06.10 09:53:00 - [27] Interesting to see the power of the media at work in this thread. The first commonly sited lie is that Scotland costs England money, a lie invented by the treasury and propagated through the BBC. In truth Our oil money goes straight to London without going through Scottish hands and the crown estates are busy doing the same thing with the wind farms, essentially the English profiting from the crappy weather we have to live with. It's textbook colonialism. Take the natural resources, control the media, fudge the numbers to distort the real situation. Look at the Norweigan financial surplus, now back to the Scottish deficit, now look again at the Norweigan surplus.....(etc) Being controlled by a government we didn't vote for and letting them take all our resources is very f'ing annoying. Originally by: Machiavelli's Nemesis Alec Salmond .... a referendum on scottish independance is highly unlikely to pass and he knows it. Quoted for a direct example of someone believing BBC lies. At the bottom of this story you will find this quote: Originally by: BBC Lies It is also worth bearing in mind that November 30, 2010, was the planned date for the SNP's independence referendum, but the slot became vacant after the Scottish government dropped the plan because of a lack of support. This is complete baws, the original referendum was withdrawn because of a combination of Whitehall shenanigans and unionist party blocking tactics, Salmond didn't have a majority in the parliament at that point so couldn't guarantee getting the referendum bill through. By pulling the bill at that point he was actually gambling that the people would strengthen his hand at the election, guess he was right too. In 1979 we were told by the polls that Scotland didn't want independence - vote showed otherwise, in the last election the polls told us the SNP would lose, vote turned out to be a landslide majority. You can not trust the media and certainly can not trust the BBC.
Kaivix EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.10 10:00:00 - [28] Originally by: Blane Xero Edited by: Blane Xero on 10/06/2011 01:25:31 I guess the general consensus from onlookers is that we're doomed to fail either way. Personally, if we're going to burn I want it to be by our own doing; because then we at least have a chance to fix it. History has shown time and time again that for as long as Scotland is "Part of the UK" that any time we get something good going, it's stripped away and sold for parts. It's better to try and fail than to live in fear and wonders of "What-If" in my book. And besides, if we're such a terrible burden why is the government so against is going our different ways? Because the UK's Nuclear deterrent is based in Scotland. and that if you do crash and burn it's going to be up to England/EU to pick up the pieces.
Jim Pooley The Jeremy Kyle Holding Pen	Posted - 2011.06.10 10:28:00 - [29] Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer If England tries to prevent Scottish independence by force, I will gladly come over there and fight - especially if we get to sack York afterwards. I might be wrong, but isn't it still technically legal to kill a scotsman in York, provided it is on a Sunday and you use a crossbow? ------------------------------------------ Mines a Pint of Large
Jhagiti Tyran Caldari Muppet Ninja's Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns	Posted - 2011.06.10 10:37:00 - [30] Originally by: Wilhelm Riley Edited by: Wilhelm Riley on 09/06/2011 21:28:07 Originally by: annoing and you have no navy. And England does? Heck, we have to share with France. FRANCE. The Royal Navy has begun to replace its ships with many brand new state of the art vessels like the new Astute class attack sub, the only submarine that's as advanced as those are the US Sea Wolf class. We have new Destroyers and soon the new Queen Elizabeth class carrier will be finished which will be one of the most advanced carriers in the world and only overshadowed by the super carriers the US have. In recent years there have been new helicopters, new missiles and other advancements. Sure the tories did their best to stall it with all the recent budget cuts but the RN is still entering a new age with better equipment and technology.

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