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Holy One
Quiet.Storm Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.06.10 10:55:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
Originally by: Wilhelm Riley Edited by: Wilhelm Riley on 09/06/2011 21:28:07
Originally by: annoing and you have no navy.
And England does?
Heck, we have to share with France. FRANCE.
The Royal Navy has begun to replace its ships with many brand new state of the art vessels like the new Astute class attack sub, the only submarine that's as advanced as those are the US Sea Wolf class.
We have new Destroyers and soon the new Queen Elizabeth class carrier will be finished which will be one of the most advanced carriers in the world and only overshadowed by the super carriers the US have. In recent years there have been new helicopters, new missiles and other advancements.
Sure the tories did their best to stall it with all the recent budget cuts but the RN is still entering a new age with better equipment and technology.
Whilst our infantry continue to be killed, maimed and crippled because the army doesn't have the funding it needs to equip them with proper spec body armour.
Wut.
BBQ makes me hungry for more... |
Griffolion
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2011.06.10 11:03:00 -
[32]
Originally by: yani dumyat As some of you may be aware Scotland recently recently returned its nationalist government with a massive majority, effectively preventing the unionist parties from blocking a referendum on Scottish independence.
I'm intrigued to see what people think of this and wonder if this is the beginning of end for the United Kingdom?
Northern Ireland have got Stormont where nationalists and unionists have been having what amounts to a love in (at least compared to what they used to be like). Wales has a lot of migration from England but those who do count themselves as Welsh tend to be very Welsh, I find that mentioning the phrase "prince of wales" and then rating the profanity of their response to be a good judge of how nationalistic a Welsh person is.
A quick look at Scottish nationalism over the last 50 years tends to show a recurring trend, polls and newspapers repeatedly report that there is no appetite for independence but when put to the ballot box it tells a different story. In 1979 the Scottish people voted to devolve from the UK by a slim majority but Westminster refused to accept the result (60% rule etc), the 1997 referendum saw a bigger majority and we finally got our parliament.
In the last two general elections the papers have slammed the SNP and predicted they will lose, both times they were wrong. The huge support for the SNP shown in the last election is I think a sign of what's to come, just consider these facts for a moment:
Scotland is ruled from Westminster by a tory/liberal government that we neither voted for nor wanted. (Yay democracy!) The crown estates own the sea bed for several miles out to sea and therefore take a huge chunk of Scottish wealth through wind farms. (Beyond undemocratic, that's blatant feudalism) Scots gaelic and its associated culture is being promoted for the first time since Culloden (1746)
All told I think it's the end for the UK.
I've thought that for ages. I just think that Scotland should have it's independence, because they do next to nothing for the United Kingdom anyway. I just find it funny that when it comes to matters of economy and money, the Scots are oh so British, but when it comes to culture and national identity they are SCOOOTLAND TIL I DIEE, I HATE THOSE DAMN ENGLISH B***ARDS!
So yeah, let them have their independence, so they can hate on the English while supporting their own damn economy.
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Wilhelm Riley
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Posted - 2011.06.10 12:48:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Holy One
Whilst our infantry continue to be killed, maimed and crippled because the army doesn't have the funding it needs to equip them with proper spec body armour.
Wut.
And they're driving around in Land Rovers which are so inadequate they should be on a farm somewhere.
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Niraia
Zaratha Zarati Aggravated Assault..
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Posted - 2011.06.10 12:59:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Griffolion I've thought that for ages. I just think that Scotland should have it's independence, because they do next to nothing for the United Kingdom anyway. I just find it funny that when it comes to matters of economy and money, the Scots are oh so British, but when it comes to culture and national identity they are SCOOOTLAND TIL I DIEE, I HATE THOSE DAMN ENGLISH B***ARDS!
I find that only stupid Scottish people claim to hate English people, just as stupid English people make ******ed assumptions concerning Scottish national identity.
Idiot.
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AlleyKat
Gallente The Unwanted.
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Posted - 2011.06.10 13:09:00 -
[35]
Don't you need a king before you can call it a kingdom?
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2011.06.10 13:15:00 -
[36]
Decentralization of power is a good thing.
The Real Space Initiative - V7
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Wilhelm Riley
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Posted - 2011.06.10 13:23:00 -
[37]
Originally by: AlleyKat Don't you need a king before you can call it a kingdom?
Queendom?
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Valerie Valate
Amarr Church of The Crimson Saviour
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Posted - 2011.06.10 13:28:00 -
[38]
When I was at university a long time ago (1999 or thereabouts) we had various people from business come in and talk to us about various topics. One such person was a man from the BAe Systems (or whatever it was called at the time) shipyard. He mentioned that one of the big challenges facing them was that countries that previously bought fully built warships were now only ordering one or two, and then building their own, with technology transfer from the shipyards in Scotland.
I.e. instead of Turkey or Saudi Arabia or Malaysia or whoever buying 8 ships fully built in Scotland, they would order 2, and have their dudes shadowing the Scots engineers & technicians, and then they would build the other 6 ships they wanted at home. This of course meant that there was always concern over the order book. More and more countries were doing this, as their home shipbuilding and maintenance capabilities improved.
And that was over a decade ago.
So, with this in mind, I find John Swinney and the SNP's thoughts that an independent Scotland would still win ship contracts, and lots of them, from the RN, to be rather optimistic.
Even if yards such as Devonport or Portsmouth or wherever didn't have the skills, the RN would not order 12 destroyers to be built in Scotland. They would order 2, with technology-transfer type contracts, such that the preferred yards in Portsmouth would then have the skills to build the remaining 10.
Arguing that the Scottish yards would continue to build RN ships, and build them in sufficient numbers to keep those shipyards open, is somewhat foolish, I think. _________________________________________
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yani dumyat
Minmatar Pixie Cats
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Posted - 2011.06.10 13:48:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Valerie Valate
Arguing that the Scottish yards would continue to build RN ships, and build them in sufficient numbers to keep those shipyards open, is somewhat foolish, I think.
I take your point but at the same time it would be foolish to think the UK military industrial complex would or even could split up easily after an independence vote. Easiest to think of it like an amicable divorce, Scotland and England living happily together in the same Island and doing the same things they always did but not wearing their wedding rings any more.
Scotland has different needs from England and the shipyards are a perfect example, if we are to maintain a good level of industry then we can't have tuition fees for our uni's because someone from Govan who would traditionally have gone in to ship building would baulk at the idea of paying ú36,000 for a 4 year uni course.
This is precisely why we need to take our own path.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar Pixie Cats
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Posted - 2011.06.10 13:56:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Griffolion
I've thought that for ages. I just think that Scotland should have it's independence, because they do next to nothing for the United Kingdom anyway. I just find it funny that when it comes to matters of economy and money, the Scots are oh so British, but when it comes to culture and national identity they are SCOOOTLAND TIL I DIEE, I HATE THOSE DAMN ENGLISH B***ARDS!
So yeah, let them have their independence, so they can hate on the English while supporting their own damn economy.
What hate? The only hate I see in this thread is coming from the unionist side. I love England, lived there for nearly 10 years and would happily live there again.
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Valerie Valate
Amarr Church of The Crimson Saviour
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Posted - 2011.06.10 14:03:00 -
[41]
Originally by: yani dumyat I take your point but at the same time it would be foolish to think the UK military industrial complex would or even could split up easily after an independence vote.
Probably. it's baffling enough trying to figure out who actually owns what at the moment.
Still, I am concerned that many of the SNP appear to be of the school of thought of "It'll be fine, don't worry", instead of having a right good think about things. No plans for the worst case scenarios and so on.
Which gets a bit worrying. No plans often means snap decisions, makeshift solutions, unnecessary expenditure, and so on, effects lasting for decades. _________________________________________
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.06.10 14:33:00 -
[42]
As an Englishman, I can honestly say I don't mind either way, but it's the choice Scottish people have to make themselves. I think they should be allowed a referendum, to decide one way or the other.
I love Scotland and the Scots, I've been there many times. One of my very best friends is a Glaswegian and even though he's slightly nuts, you couldn't ask for a better friend. (Can't remember much of the last weekend I spent there tbh )
I think it's great that the SNP have had such a resounding victory and Mr Alex Salmond is a very canny operator. Let's hope he does the right things, but I don't think it's going to be an easy ride.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar Pixie Cats
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Posted - 2011.06.10 14:34:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Valerie Valate Probably. it's baffling enough trying to figure out who actually owns what at the moment.
Still, I am concerned that many of the SNP appear to be of the school of thought of "It'll be fine, don't worry", instead of having a right good think about things. No plans for the worst case scenarios and so on.
Which gets a bit worrying. No plans often means snap decisions, makeshift solutions, unnecessary expenditure, and so on, effects lasting for decades.
Again good points however it's a question of taking things slowly, no one can have plans for these things. I just hope that post independence there's no stupid rush to join the euro or otherwise rock the boat, that would be bad for everyone.
One thing's for sure though, the tories have a proven record of looking after London irrespective of the consequences for Scotland. We didn't vote for them and we want rid of them. I see no way of doing this other than an independent Scotland working side by side with England rather than a vassal state trying to live with policies designed by people who've never been further north than Milton Keynes.
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Jhagiti Tyran
Muppet Ninja's Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
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Posted - 2011.06.10 15:19:00 -
[44]
Originally by: yani dumyat One thing's for sure though, the tories have a proven record of looking after London irrespective of the consequences for Scotland.
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Kurfin
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Posted - 2011.06.10 20:05:00 -
[45]
Maybe a trail separation would help the Scots decide, 6 months of independence before a referendum is held. Of course we will still expect you, every other weekend, to look after Wales and Northern I... on second thoughts...
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Dav Varan
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Posted - 2011.06.10 20:35:00 -
[46]
The only peops I know that care about Scottish independence are the Scottish.
Given that the oils running out , your not much use to us anymore except to increase our tax burden through subsidies.
That having been said no one down here want to see you leave , but if indi is what you want then we wish you luck.
So long and thanks for all the oil.
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Buzzmong
Aliastra
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Posted - 2011.06.10 22:28:00 -
[47]
From the handful of Scots I know personally and have asked their thoughts on it, they all said they'd never ever vote for full Scottish independence. Various small reasons such as cost, border control, more red tape etc... but the main reasons they all stated was that A) It works alright now and B) It would end up stuffing Scotland up a treat. --------------------------------- Go Web! Go! |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.06.10 22:47:00 -
[48]
How can you not like the Brits?
Originally by: Xenuria
I don't need a LICENSE to take a photoshooped image and lay it on top of the game client and make pretend my character is naked.
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CLONE 9
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2011.06.10 23:28:00 -
[49]
Originally by: yani dumyat
I see no way of doing this other than an independent Scotland working side by side with England rather than a vassal state trying to live with policies designed by people who've never been further north than Milton Keynes.
Amazing. Whilst you have your own parliament for 'Scottish' matters - we have to deal with THE WEST LOTHIAN QUESTION
Here's a snippet:
Quote: The West Lothian question causes controversy in British politics. Polls suggest that Scottish voters are agreed that the situation is unfair
For example, English students are required to pay top-up fees, but Scottish students are not. The legislation imposing top-up fees on English students passed by a small majority of 316 to 311. At the time, the opposition education secretary Tim Yeo argued that this low majority made the passing of the law due to on Scottish MPs voting to introduce tuition fees that the Scottish students would not have to pay.
Scotland imposing laws on the English that they don't have to suffer themselves?
The situation is not as black and white as you make out - and the soundbites that 'Westminster' is a cabal of Scottish hating English centric tories is guff straight out of Alex Salmonds backside. Prejudice is not nationalist these days - it's money centric. That's why London is important.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar Pixie Cats
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Posted - 2011.06.11 00:52:00 -
[50]
Edited by: yani dumyat on 11/06/2011 00:55:00
Originally by: CLONE 9 Amazing. Whilst you have your own parliament for 'Scottish' matters - we have to deal with THE WEST LOTHIAN QUESTION Scotland imposing laws on the English that they don't have to suffer themselves?
The situation is not as black and white as you make out - and the soundbites that 'Westminster' is a cabal of Scottish hating English centric tories is guff straight out of Alex Salmonds backside. Prejudice is not nationalist these days - it's money centric. That's why London is important.
Surely this is an argument for English independence?
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yani dumyat
Minmatar Pixie Cats
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Posted - 2011.06.11 00:52:00 -
[51]
Perhaps I can illustrate my point with an example, as I do so please bear in mind that I am very aware of how the IMF and global banking in general operate.
UK and Dutch oil interests are very closely tied, not only through the north sea but through Shell, Nigeria and other interests.
A year or so ago the RBS (Royal Bank of Scotland) bought out the Dutch bank ABN Amro.
The man responsible for this was Fred Goodwin, the buyout resulted in RBS failing.
The UK government bailed out RBS, I know the figure exceeded ú50 billion, probably more. By the time you start thinking that the difference between 50 and 51 billion quid is chump change you know it's a lot of cash.
UK government takes 83% stake in RBS.
Fred Goodwin was last seen vying for top job at the IMF (Think for a moment about the friends you need to have just to apply for that job). BTW his title is 'Sir' Fred Goodwin.
Stephen Hester (current boss of RBS) is now wanting to sell a stake of RBS to the Qatari's. I'll wait till the deal is done but the figures I've heard are lower than what the UK government paid. Any deal for sale of RBS shares must go through George Osbourne (UK Chancellor if the exchequer).
As eve players who have some concept of metagaming could you please answer the following questions: Given that RBS are one of the main banks used by Scottish businesses would this situation show Scotland to be a member of the alliance or a pet?
If situations like this persisted while the Alliance leaders profited off your moon goo would you be happy with your alliance leadership?
What kind of 'forum outcry' would have happened if this was the Bank Of England?
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CLONE 9
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2011.06.11 07:19:00 -
[52]
Originally by: yani dumyat Perhaps I can illustrate my point with an example, as I do so please bear in mind that I am very aware of how the IMF and global banking in general operate.
UK and Dutch oil interests are very closely tied, not only through the north sea but through Shell, Nigeria and other interests.
A year or so ago the RBS (Royal Bank of Scotland) bought out the Dutch bank ABN Amro.
The man responsible for this was Fred Goodwin, the buyout resulted in RBS failing.
The UK government bailed out RBS, I know the figure exceeded ú50 billion, probably more. By the time you start thinking that the difference between 50 and 51 billion quid is chump change you know it's a lot of cash.
UK government takes 83% stake in RBS.
Fred Goodwin was last seen vying for top job at the IMF (Think for a moment about the friends you need to have just to apply for that job). BTW his title is 'Sir' Fred Goodwin.
Stephen Hester (current boss of RBS) is now wanting to sell a stake of RBS to the Qatari's. I'll wait till the deal is done but the figures I've heard are lower than what the UK government paid. Any deal for sale of RBS shares must go through George Osbourne (UK Chancellor if the exchequer).
As eve players who have some concept of metagaming could you please answer the following questions: Given that RBS are one of the main banks used by Scottish businesses would this situation show Scotland to be a member of the alliance or a pet?
If situations like this persisted while the Alliance leaders profited off your moon goo would you be happy with your alliance leadership?
What kind of 'forum outcry' would have happened if this was the Bank Of England?
and Cadbury was sold to Kraft using money loaned from RBS (using the money provided by tax payers to keep it afloat). Who's being stiffed by who? As I said, money talks above national interest.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente Sigma Special Tactics Group
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Posted - 2011.06.15 01:24:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Jim Pooley
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
If England tries to prevent Scottish independence by force, I will gladly come over there and fight - especially if we get to sack York afterwards.
I might be wrong, but isn't it still technically legal to kill a scotsman in York, provided it is on a Sunday and you use a crossbow?
In NEW York it was legal to hit the Irish with baseball bats.
I swear.
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Riedle
Minmatar Paradox Collective
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Posted - 2011.06.15 12:43:00 -
[54]
While I don't know much about the specifics of this nationalism movement in Scotland I can tell you all from experience - being Canadian - that the best thing you can do is ignore it.
It ends up turning out to be a giant hostage negoatiation and no matter how much money you give them they will want more and more and more. Like Quebec in Canada, Scotland's economy would be a complete and utter basket case without it being a part of the UK. Especially when you consider that they would have to take their fair share of debt.
It's all a moot point anyways. They are not going anywhere and nor do the majority of separatists WANT to go anywhere. It is merely the mouthpiece of leftist idealists and the best cure is to simply ignore it. Shrug and say if you want to go, go.
One other thing that we did in Canada was enact legislation that made any separation referendum have a clear question requiring a clear majority. ie: not 50% plus one in order to separate.
Learn from our mistakes to save yourselves from 30 years of economic blackmail.
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Zedic
Amarr Universalis Imperium Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.06.15 13:10:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
stuff
Hopefully it's the end for the UK and that the USA follows.
Speaking as an American and a casual observer of the train wreck that I call home, you really do not want to live in a world post "USA". It will fall apart based along political lines with one side of it being completely incompatible with anyone who is not an evangelical xenophobic racist under/uneducated bigoted zionist. Did I mention that such a horde of simpletons would have nukes and lots of them?
If the fallout from whomever they decide to attack didn't get you, they would themselves. The republican presidential nominees latest hysterical concern is preventing "sharia" from taking over their US of A. That and they've all refused to appoint any Muslims to their governments should they be elected, as you just can't trust those damned brown people. You may not be brown, but you're a damned heathen furrinerr and sooner or later, you'd be next.
Nuke 'em from orbit, it's the only way to be sure. Then go back to squabbling over haggis and sheep hookers.
"Zion's Child -"I'm glad this forum is filled with idiots. It just wouldn't be any fun without people like Blane, Zedic, Surf and Jago. Your antics are what make OOPE such a joy to co |
Zedic
Amarr Universalis Imperium Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.06.15 13:16:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Originally by: Jim Pooley
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
If England tries to prevent Scottish independence by force, I will gladly come over there and fight - especially if we get to sack York afterwards.
I might be wrong, but isn't it still technically legal to kill a scotsman in York, provided it is on a Sunday and you use a crossbow?
In NEW York it was legal to hit the Irish with baseball bats.
I swear.
It was en vogue to pelt them in the face with a rotten potato when they arrived on the boats too.
"Zion's Child -"I'm glad this forum is filled with idiots. It just wouldn't be any fun without people like Blane, Zedic, Surf and Jago. Your antics are what make OOPE such a joy to co |
Dr Offensive
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Posted - 2011.06.15 14:40:00 -
[57]
Ever wondered why Westminster throws so much more money at the Scots that it does at the English.
And the more people that vote for the Scottish Nationalists, the more freebies the Scots get from England.
If Scotland is a burden to the UK, the best thing to do would be to give them a real bad deal and literally force them out of the union.
Every vote for the SNP wrenches a bit more money out of the English, because they know Scotland is one of the few parts of the UK that actually makes any money.
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2011.06.15 18:50:00 -
[58]
Funny thing is I've always thought of Scotland as a sovereign nation.
Delenda est achura. |
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