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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.06.11 04:04:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Aamrr on 11/06/2011 04:06:44
Right now, it's impossible to swap ammunition ceasing fire. This makes sense. There is nothing wrong with this.
There IS something wrong with how the user interface handles this. We should be able to tell the server "keep shooting, but oh by the way, change ammunition when you finish the current cycle, spend the appropriate time reloading, and resume fire when you finish."
While this isn't a huge issue for missiles, projectiles, or hybrids, it is a quality of life concern for Amarrians.
On the plus side, this should reduce lag, as what previously took three messages to the server...
"Stop firing"
"Load new crystal"
"Start firing again"
...now takes only one:
"Finish current cycle, load new ammo, resume fire."
With all the time spent on "UI Coreification," I feel this is a longstanding issue that should now be resolved.
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Drake Draconis
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
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Posted - 2011.06.11 05:42:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Drake Draconis on 11/06/2011 05:43:03
Every other bloody race has no trouble reloading... it just picks up new ammo and then your ready to go.
Amarrians have it bad when it comes to Tech 2 Ammo or Faction Ammo.
Everything stops dead in its tracks for one busted crystal out of 8...you have to reload the whole damn array with a different crystal then switch back...then start firing again...only to have an another bloody crystal shatter after one cycle.
There's a difference between rational and insane.... this...is insane.
I don't mean to sound like some spaz right now...but its been a nagging issue I've had to tolerate for a better part of a year now.... MAKE THE MADDNESS STOP!
Just have it stop and auto-reload provided you have enough ammo...and then you fire them again! Small price to pay for a little seamless pew pew yes?
TLDR: HELL YES! Supported!
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CEO of Shadow Cadre
http://www.shadowcadre.com
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.06.11 06:12:00 -
[3]
I get around that issue by sticking spare crystals in a container so they aren't used prematurely, and then I just discard the entire stack when one of them breaks.
The few remaining shots left per crystal aren't worth bothering about, and I'd rather that the new set break at nearly the same time.
If any changes to laser crystals themselves were done, I'd appreciate the ability to combine and split damaged crystals the way you can combine and split stacks of ammunition.
(Does any other race have to purchase 4000 rounds of faction ammo PER TURRET when they go off to pewpew? No, but Amarrians do.)
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.06.11 08:37:00 -
[4]
I consider the disruption caused by crystals shattering one of the downsides of lasers, one that can be worked around by raw ISK (spares \o/) or intelligent use of weapon grouping (made a lot easier recently).
As for OP: Simple little tweak to reduce the clickity-click which is always a good thing. Make sure you add it to the "1000 things" thread as well.
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Marlona Sky
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.06.11 10:06:00 -
[5]
Have your proposal include hybrids, projectiles and missiles being able to reload and change ammo types in ONE SECOND like lasers, and I will give a thumbs up.
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Danika Princip
Minmatar
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.06.11 11:48:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Marlona Sky
Have your proposal include hybrids, projectiles and missiles being able to reload and change ammo types in ONE SECOND like lasers, and I will give a thumbs up.
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Terghon Tu
Amarr
DarkNet Node Fanaticus
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Posted - 2011.06.11 22:55:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Have your proposal include hybrids, projectiles and missiles being able to reload and change ammo types in ONE SECOND like lasers, and I will give a thumbs up.
As a diehard laser user I have to agree. We get SUCH a good deal on ammo changing that reloading faction and T2 crystals is a minor annoyance. I run a CNR cruise-missile boat for giggles against Angels and the 10 seconds to reload always seems like forever. I much prefer my lasers, weird reloading regardless.
I will agree that it makes sense to be able to hit Reload and have it put in a new set of the same crystal however. Even if only one crystal has burnt out.
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The right to do something doesn't make doing it right. |
Clygorn
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.12 01:15:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Clygorn on 12/06/2011 01:18:24
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Have your proposal include hybrids, projectiles and missiles being able to reload and change ammo types in ONE SECOND like lasers, and I will give a thumbs up.
Laser aren't like normal ammo, so i find it alright as it is. However i always found it strange that when the last charge has been fired you have to wait 1 full empty cycle + reload time. You'd think that the ordnance system would know there's nothing left and should get to reload right away. That's the most irrational thing I can see concerning ammo reload.
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Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.12 01:25:00 -
[9]
Easy answer is to discard your damaged crystals before it becomes a problem. You don't have to reload at all otherwise, so you never lose the 10 seconds every cycle that that entails. It's not like Crystal have a 10 minute lifespan, they last for ages and then they crap out and die.
..and yes, other races do have to load up on 4000 rounds of faction ammo every time they go out and do something Aamrr, or were you forgetting that they have to put all that in cargo, carry it around, and every shot uses it up.
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Rented
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Posted - 2011.06.12 02:32:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Rented on 12/06/2011 02:33:08
Originally by: Clygorn
Edited by: Clygorn on 12/06/2011 01:18:24
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Have your proposal include hybrids, projectiles and missiles being able to reload and change ammo types in ONE SECOND like lasers, and I will give a thumbs up.
Laser aren't like normal ammo, so i find it alright as it is. However i always found it strange that when the last charge has been fired you have to wait 1 full empty cycle + reload time. You'd think that the ordnance system would know there's nothing left and should get to reload right away. That's the most irrational thing I can see concerning ammo reload.
To prevent abuse and keep the penalty of reload time consistant for everything (except lasers of course). If it were the case that reloading literally only ever took 10 seconds after the last shot was fired, I'd slap some artillery on any battleship with 8 turret hardpoints, put all my ammo inside a can, and split out and reload my guns with stacks of 8 for every shot. Fairly sure it'd be pretty brokenly overpowered. That and this would benefit weapons with longer durations in general, as a reload would essentially cause them to fire relatively faster, and in the case of large artillery... just plain faster.
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.06.12 08:35:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mars Theran
..and yes, other races do have to load up on 4000 rounds of faction ammo every time they go out and do something Aamrr, or were you forgetting that they have to put all that in cargo, carry it around, and every shot uses it up.
4000 rounds? Maybe. 4000 rounds per turret? Hell no. I don't know anyone that purchases 32,000 rounds of faction ammunition for their artillery maelstrom, but that is precisely what every Apocalypse or Abaddon pilot has to do for every type of crystal they bring to PvP, simply because you cannot purchase them in smaller quantities.
And discarding mostly-damaged crystals does not solve the problem I described in my original post.
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Veshta Yoshida
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.06.12 09:37:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Rented
That and this would benefit weapons with longer durations in general, as a reload would essentially cause them to fire relatively faster, and in the case of large artillery... just plain faster.
Wouldn't be that much faster as you would still have to wait for cycle completion to shoot again.
1400's have 20 rounds and they take about 20-30s per shot, so you stand to gain 10s for every 6-10 minutes if reload could be done from the moment it empties (during cycle) .. not worth the insane amount of micromanagement in my world 
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.06.12 09:45:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Veshta Yoshida
Originally by: Rented
That and this would benefit weapons with longer durations in general, as a reload would essentially cause them to fire relatively faster, and in the case of large artillery... just plain faster.
Wouldn't be that much faster as you would still have to wait for cycle completion to shoot again.
1400's have 20 rounds and they take about 20-30s per shot, so you stand to gain 10s for every 6-10 minutes if reload could be done from the moment it empties (during cycle) .. not worth the insane amount of micromanagement in my world
I think you've missed the point of my proposal. I never mentioned anything about the reloading that occurs when you run out of ammunition. All I'm asking is that when you issue a command to change ammunition that it's smart enough to handle the command appropriately when you're firing at something. (Finish the current cycle, spend time reloading if it's not a laser, and resume fire.)
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Rented
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Posted - 2011.06.12 22:42:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Veshta Yoshida
Originally by: Rented
That and this would benefit weapons with longer durations in general, as a reload would essentially cause them to fire relatively faster, and in the case of large artillery... just plain faster.
Wouldn't be that much faster as you would still have to wait for cycle completion to shoot again.
1400's have 20 rounds and they take about 20-30s per shot, so you stand to gain 10s for every 6-10 minutes if reload could be done from the moment it empties (during cycle) .. not worth the insane amount of micromanagement in my world
You wouldn't be willing to double your damage by reloading every shot? I bow to your laziness.
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Swynet
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Posted - 2011.06.12 23:15:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Have your proposal include hybrids, projectiles and missiles being able to reload and change ammo types in ONE SECOND like lasers, and I will give a thumbs up.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.06.13 08:09:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Aamrr
I think you've missed the point of my proposal.
No I didn't (post #4). Just nit-picking and discussing now.
Originally by: Rented
You wouldn't be willing to double your damage by reloading every shot? I bow to your laziness.
Sure I would, but that is not what would happen if reloads happened during cycle. Guns will still have to complete each and every cycle so RoF remains the same.
If they cycled off instantly upon empty then yes, damage would increase dramatically for guns like L artillery by micro'ing reloads.
But the idea is to be able to give a reload order at any point and having the stop-wait-reload-start sequence become automated. It is already half-way there as you can give reload command during red-flash after a target is lost/destroyed but it is not possible to do it manually by deactivating and then reloading .. manual de-ac forces you to wait for cycle completion.
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Rented
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Posted - 2011.06.13 17:32:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Rented
You wouldn't be willing to double your damage by reloading every shot? I bow to your laziness.
Sure I would, but that is not what would happen if reloads happened during cycle. Guns will still have to complete each and every cycle so RoF remains the same.
If they cycled off instantly upon empty then yes, damage would increase dramatically for guns like L artillery by micro'ing reloads.
But the idea is to be able to give a reload order at any point and having the stop-wait-reload-start sequence become automated. It is already half-way there as you can give reload command during red-flash after a target is lost/destroyed but it is not possible to do it manually by deactivating and then reloading .. manual de-ac forces you to wait for cycle completion.
I was originally referring to this-
Originally by: Clygorn
However i always found it strange that when the last charge has been fired you have to wait 1 full empty cycle + reload time. You'd think that the ordnance system would know there's nothing left and should get to reload right away. That's the most irrational thing I can see concerning ammo reload.
Which implies he thinks reload should begin immediately after ammo runs out, which would indeed create the possibility of drastically increasing artillery dps, and would cause inconsistencies in the relative 'penalty' of reloading depending on weapon duration.
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