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So why can't we destroy null sec outposts?

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Elesaar Caldari Marinello Enterprises Destiny Corrupted.	Posted - 2011.06.12 22:27:00 - [1] Hello, I have always wondered why we can not destroy 0.0 outposts the alliances deploy. If a alliance takes all the time to take over the system and the station shouldn't they have the option to burn down the current outpost if they want to destroy everything in it or so they can deploy their own for different use? CCP talks about how they want more isk sinks in EVE, and what would be more of an isk sink then billions of assets built up over the years to burn as the station crumbles. If the player had his pod in the station just treat it as if the station was taken over and revoke the clone contract to some random highsec station and they are killed and respond there. I just think its kind of weird that once a station is placed its never going away. CCP could also make the removal of the station the same way you put it up, all you have to do is get the new station owner to press the self destruct button and have it burn until downtime giving everyone inside the station time to get out (If the enemy alliance is not camping the undock). A nice but not necessary feature of this would be that the wreck of the station will always stay on grid just like the random dead NPC station wrecks scattered around eve, and whom ever self destructed the station can name the wreck in remembrance in the taking over of the system just like a monument. Anyone know the true answer or what are your ideas?
Miilla Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage	Posted - 2011.06.12 22:29:00 - [2] Edited by: Miilla on 12/06/2011 22:44:37 Because all the nullsec care bears would short circuit the server with tears. You never met a Nullsec hero I see. Well, they come to highsec trade hubs such as Rens, they huff puff and beat their chests and claim to be awesome and we should all go to nullsec, so we do, in our ECCM Tengus and Covert Ops ships. Search the forums for examples of tears (AFK cloakers whine threads and ECCM Tengu threads and NULLsec nerf threads).
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.06.12 22:43:00 - [3] Because of technical reasons.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2011.06.12 22:45:00 - [4] Originally by: Mashie Saldana Because of technical reasons. ^^ This. I remember CCP mentioning this would be some kind of technical nightmare to implement. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Elesaar Caldari Marinello Enterprises Destiny Corrupted.	Posted - 2011.06.12 22:45:00 - [5] Edited by: Elesaar on 12/06/2011 22:46:46 Edited by: Elesaar on 12/06/2011 22:46:21 Originally by: Mashie Saldana Because of technical reasons. like what, how can ccp create a walking in stations environment and new turret graphics if they can not delete a station that players made?
Mars Theran Caldari EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.12 22:49:00 - [6] Technically, they are coded into the game. I think that's why actually. But sure as heck would be nice to destroy them.
Miilla Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage	Posted - 2011.06.12 22:51:00 - [7] Originally by: Mars Theran Technically, they are coded into the game. I think that's why actually. But sure as heck would be nice to destroy them. So when you anchor a POS; you are changing the CODE:
Soden Rah Gallente EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.12 22:52:00 - [8] Originally by: Elesaar Edited by: Elesaar on 12/06/2011 22:46:46 Edited by: Elesaar on 12/06/2011 22:46:21 Originally by: Mashie Saldana Because of technical reasons. like what, how can ccp create a walking in stations environment and new turret graphics if they can not delete a station that players made? A station with potentially tens of thousand's of assets in it... all of which suddenly cease to exist. logged of players, whose pod/clone contracts have to move elsewhere, and could be logging in just as it explodes. people in station with skills running who suddenly die... no code for that... and those are just the issues that come immediately to mind... the DB really doesn't like doing that stuff live. you would probably land up crashing every system on the server running it, as well as the DB server freaking out and causing the eve wide market to crash/lag out.... its way more trouble than its worth... you can't kill highsec stations either, and these are the player equivalent. __________________________________________________ Originally by: CCP Tuxford bugger, I need to have a closer look at this menu function
Miilla Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage	Posted - 2011.06.12 22:53:00 - [9] Edited by: Miilla on 12/06/2011 22:56:54 Originally by: Soden Rah Originally by: Elesaar Edited by: Elesaar on 12/06/2011 22:46:46 Edited by: Elesaar on 12/06/2011 22:46:21 Originally by: Mashie Saldana Because of technical reasons. like what, how can ccp create a walking in stations environment and new turret graphics if they can not delete a station that players made? A station with potentially tens of thousand's of assets in it... all of which suddenly cease to exist. logged of players, whose pod/clone contracts have to move elsewhere, and could be logging in just as it explodes. people in station with skills running who suddenly die... no code for that... and those are just the issues that come immediately to mind... the DB really doesn't like doing that stuff live. you would probably land up crashing every system on the server running it, as well as the DB server freaking out and causing the eve wide market to crash/lag out.... its way more trouble than its worth... you can't kill highsec stations either, and these are the player equivalent. "the DB really doesn't like doing that stuff live" <-- BEST QUOTE EVER, DATABASES DO NOT LIKE TO WORK WITH LIVE DATA. Somebody should tell the Banks. Everybody unstack all your items and assemble all your ships.
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.06.12 22:55:00 - [10] Originally by: Elesaar Edited by: Elesaar on 12/06/2011 22:46:46 Edited by: Elesaar on 12/06/2011 22:46:21 Originally by: Mashie Saldana Because of technical reasons. like what, how can ccp create a walking in stations environment and new turret graphics if they can not delete a station that players made? Such as what will happen to a pilot that is docked there and also has his medical clone in the same station?
Elesaar Caldari Marinello Enterprises Destiny Corrupted.	Posted - 2011.06.12 22:59:00 - [11] Originally by: Mashie Saldana Originally by: Elesaar Edited by: Elesaar on 12/06/2011 22:46:46 Edited by: Elesaar on 12/06/2011 22:46:21 Originally by: Mashie Saldana Because of technical reasons. like what, how can ccp create a walking in stations environment and new turret graphics if they can not delete a station that players made? Such as what will happen to a pilot that is docked there and also has his medical clone in the same station? Answered that in the post above "If the player had his pod in the station just treat it as if the station was taken over and revoke the clone contract to some random highsec station and they are killed and respond there. "
Elesaar Caldari Marinello Enterprises Destiny Corrupted.	Posted - 2011.06.12 23:05:00 - [12] Originally by: Soden Rah Originally by: Elesaar Edited by: Elesaar on 12/06/2011 22:46:46 Edited by: Elesaar on 12/06/2011 22:46:21 Originally by: Mashie Saldana Because of technical reasons. like what, how can ccp create a walking in stations environment and new turret graphics if they can not delete a station that players made? A station with potentially tens of thousand's of assets in it... all of which suddenly cease to exist. logged of players, whose pod/clone contracts have to move elsewhere, and could be logging in just as it explodes. people in station with skills running who suddenly die... no code for that... and those are just the issues that come immediately to mind... the DB really doesn't like doing that stuff live. you would probably land up crashing every system on the server running it, as well as the DB server freaking out and causing the eve wide market to crash/lag out.... its way more trouble than its worth... you can't kill highsec stations either, and these are the player equivalent. If you read the post correctly you would see that I said it would work the same way you put the station up, it would burn until downtime giving every player time to get their stuff out. Once downtime comes the station gets fully destroyed and everything that needs to be moved gets moved and everything that blows up gets blown up during downtime. Then once downtime finishes the station is gone and everything in order. I cant see how ccp does not have the time to create the code for this great isk sink if they had the time to make walking in the station which requires so much more coding.
VaMei Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.12 23:16:00 - [13] Edited by: VaMei on 12/06/2011 23:19:36 Originally by: Soden Rah A station with potentially tens of thousand's of assets in it... all of which suddenly cease to exist. logged of players, whose pod/clone contracts have to move elsewhere, and could be logging in just as it explodes. people in station with skills running who suddenly die... no code for that... and those are just the issues that come immediately to mind... the DB really doesn't like doing that stuff live. you would probably land up crashing every system on the server running it, as well as the DB server freaking out and causing the eve wide market to crash/lag out.... its way more trouble than its worth... you can't kill highsec stations either, and these are the player equivalent. I felt a great disturbance in the database, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened. Some deep 0.0 stations were not placed by players (i.e. 111-F1), I can see why there might be some issues in making those stations destroyable; but I personally think anything placed by the players, the players should be able to destroy. I helped place the stations in BY-MSY & E1UU-J. I would rather have burned them to ash than let them fall to invaders.
Elesaar Caldari Marinello Enterprises Destiny Corrupted.	Posted - 2011.06.12 23:24:00 - [14] I just reformatted the post to make people understand more.
Speaker4 theDead	Posted - 2011.06.12 23:38:00 - [15] Edited by: Speaker4 theDead on 12/06/2011 23:38:36 This might be the greatr disruption that 0.0 needs. No more capturing Player owned stations. To complete sov take over of the system, the station has to be destroyed....not captured. But there has to be a chance that any items in station drop, 1000's of cargo containers and ships, there for the grabbing! Of course then the conquering alliance will have to put up a new station, if they require one in that system. The drops could well make up for it if it's an old station.
Elesaar Caldari Marinello Enterprises Destiny Corrupted.	Posted - 2011.06.12 23:59:00 - [16] Originally by: Speaker4 theDead Edited by: Speaker4 theDead on 12/06/2011 23:38:36 This might be the greatr disruption that 0.0 needs. No more capturing Player owned stations. To complete sov take over of the system, the station has to be destroyed....not captured. But there has to be a chance that any items in station drop, 1000's of cargo containers and ships, there for the grabbing! Of course then the conquering alliance will have to put up a new station, if they require one in that system. The drops could well make up for it if it's an old station. Thats like saying a bank is giving out free money, god knows how much of eve will rush to that system 0_o I like my idea better where it all just goes poof
voiddragon	Posted - 2011.06.13 00:17:00 - [17] Edited by: voiddragon on 13/06/2011 00:23:38 Originally by: Miilla Originally by: Mars Theran Technically, they are coded into the game. I think that's why actually. But sure as heck would be nice to destroy them. So when you anchor a POS; you are changing the CODE: No. Since when was a POS a resemblence of any kind to a station? There's no station environment, warp beacons, station services, undock points, dock ranges and player hangars, etc to calculate with a POS. An outpost is completely different. There's a reason why outposts only construct after downtime and it's quite clearly because that data can't be modified at run-time along side a few other mechanics of EVE. inb4 lolfailCCP, CCP have brought downtime down by a considerable amount in the past year and are working on eliminating it completely. Unfortunately, there's a standard when it comes to code and most things in general. If it isn't broke, don't fix it. Right now they're working on other projects and until outposts and POSes are deemed a high enough priority for them to completely recode all the mechanics of it, then there's no reason to seriously discuss it or mess around with that code. I'd foresee a complete rehash of the old pos and outpost mechanics but I just don't see the demand for it. perhaps after incarna when wormhole dwellers complain about no experiencing any of the new content and the disfunctional way of living in wormhole space in a pos. Until then, feel free to discuss the balance of destructable outposts and new mechanics and features that could be implemented with poses to increase the priority on this project. But discussing the 'technical issues' makes it sound like "it's impossible". It's not impossible, it just means that the code doesn't allow them to change it on a whim without risking breaking other stuff. /rant
the plague Anthraxus Defense Laboratories	Posted - 2011.06.13 01:00:00 - [18] Stations should be destroyable. When they've reached a certain level of damage they should automatically "destruct" during the next downtime. This should be part of the sov system. That it isn't already like this is just bizarre.
Phantom Slave Universal Pest Exterminators	Posted - 2011.06.13 02:18:00 - [19] Originally by: Elesaar What happens with the clones in station during its destruction? -If the player had his pod in the station just treat it as if the station was taken over and revoke the clone contract to some random highsec station and they are killed and respawn there. What about players who haven't played in years and want to come back? What about players with financial difficulties that couldn't make this months payment? Hacked account takes a week to get it fixed by CCP? These 3 scenarios leave people without all of their assets with no way to stop it from happening because they don't know they can be destroyed, or have no way to log in to move their assets. You're asking for something because you think it would be cool but would screw over possibly thousands of players with expired accounts, and they wouldn't even know they were going to lose everything! "But if they're not playing, they don't care!" I can hear you say. What about people who are forced to shut down their accounts because of being military and shipped off to other countries? Moving to another state and have no internet access temporarily? There's way too many people that would be affected by this for no real reason.
VaMei Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.13 02:23:00 - [20] Edited by: VaMei on 13/06/2011 02:23:24 Originally by: Phantom Slave These 3 scenarios leave people without all of their assets with no way to stop it from happening because they don't know they can be destroyed, or have no way to log in to move their assets. Anyone that keeps all their assets in stations that can change hands deserves what they get. Anyone that walks away from the game with all their assets in stations that can change hands is expecting to loose them.
DeODokktor Caldari Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2011.06.13 02:23:00 - [21] Originally by: Soden Rah A station with potentially tens of thousand's of assets in it... all of which suddenly cease to exist. logged of players, whose pod/clone contracts have to move elsewhere, and could be logging in just as it explodes. people in station with skills running who suddenly die... no code for that... and those are just the issues that come immediately to mind... the DB really doesn't like doing that stuff live. you would probably land up crashing every system on the server running it, as well as the DB server freaking out and causing the eve wide market to crash/lag out.... its way more trouble than its worth... you can't kill highsec stations either, and these are the player equivalent. I bug reported a way to make/kill thousands and thousands of entrys in a flash, ccp said they didnt really care. ----------- Never Forget the joy of finding a main to link to a scammer alt. N-y-p-h-u-r ! !
OverlordY	Posted - 2011.06.13 02:27:00 - [22] This idea would require more than copy / pasteing old code. So CCP wont do it.
The Offerer Minmatar	Posted - 2011.06.13 02:27:00 - [23] The same reason why we can't destroy highsec stations.
The Illustrious Juden	Posted - 2011.06.13 02:38:00 - [24] Originally by: The Offerer The same reason why we can't destroy highsec stations. Concord?
De'andra	Posted - 2011.06.13 02:56:00 - [25] The biggest reason in my mind for destructible stations in null is markets. It would partially fix a problem which affects a vast amount of the deep 0.0 population, that problem being market warfare. The most detrimental factor to living in 0.0 is the lack of a market in your systems because of spies that have been kicked, or past residents who sit an alt in station for the rest of eternity just to frak with all the buy/sell orders on the market. This leads us to run almost all of our actual markets off of 'contracts' or alliance web sites that allow you to place orders to be filled from warehouse/made to order. Unfortunately destructible stations would only kill off the problem with former residents sitting an alt in your market hub. In order to actually create markets of any substance in 0.0 we need buy/sell orders in our stations to be either corp/alliance only, +5 or above only, or public, all based upon who controls that station. This not only would help build up actual markets in 0.0, but friendships between alliances could also be fueled by a need for access to the others market, and not just for defensive purposes. Destruction of stations shouldn't be difficult to implement. If you write a sloppy module for some part of your system (and I've been guilty of this before too), and then later are like.. aaah I don't want to change that now, it's too much work. How is that anyone's fault but your own? Suck it up and fix it, and realize you should have done it right the first time. As a customer I don't want to hear you admit that you can't re-write something because it's too difficult, that just tells me you didn't write it very creatively the first time around. It's not a valid excuse.
Aiwha Caldari 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2011.06.13 03:10:00 - [26] When we can wardec the Caldari navy and destroy Jita 4-4. I can't heal stupid
fgft Athonille	Posted - 2011.06.13 03:17:00 - [27] ccp has gone soft and doesnt like cold harsh worlds its a carebear empire building game anyways Originally by: Skippermonkey keep trying and you can be an hero just like fgft Athonille Originally by: Singeaboot Raj Tbh i am beginning to see the win - it's the haircut, makes people take notice.
Ghoest	Posted - 2011.06.13 03:39:00 - [28] NOTE: I gain absolutely no advantage from Out Posts. This is a particularly stupid idea. It drastically changes the game with out solving a major problem. it would simply be a change that some people liked and others disliked. But the changes would require a huge amount of developer work besides the obvious changes to code for the structure itself. 1 There is no current code for dealing with players logged on in a destroyed station. 2 It would totally F up the markets code and logic wise. 3 It would totally F up the contract system. This is a completely stupid idea because it would basically break half the game logic/code wise as it currently exists so implementing it would be huge waste of developer work.
Barry Buttplug	Posted - 2011.06.13 04:40:00 - [29] Station raids... make it so you have to upgrade your storage capabilities so that people like me can't find a way into them... Station asplodings... bit more difficult.. can't quit the game then for a few months/yrs and expect to see your dreads and carriers still there, although to be elegant about this, it is zero security space, so what the **** did u expect... inserts mechanic to stop gratuitous rage returns from people who didnt know about the change Station upgrades... allow them to warp about, shoot stuff, deploy drones... create emergency/temporary cyno jammers... and a loud of other **** that might be fun and not stoopid. Station stuff... cant go wrong with that
Loraine Gess	Posted - 2011.06.13 04:53:00 - [30] So OP do you know what an isk sink is? Because removing ASSETS and ITEMS is not the same as removing ISK. ------------------------------- When I mitigate risks in business, they call me financially sound. When I mitigate risk in PVP, they call me a coward. I'm still rich, and they're still dead.

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Everybody unstack all your items and assemble all your ships.