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So why can't we destroy null sec outposts?

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Skydell Caldari Space Mermaids	Posted - 2011.06.13 05:02:00 - [31] Aside from all the reasons given, ISK is not introduced in to the game with materials. It's traded from player to player but the ISK is not inserted the way it is with a bounty or mission payout. Outpost destruction won't remove ISK from the game. The simplest and easiest way to remove ongoing ISK from EVE is to introduce more seeds. Most of the things that were seeded now were not a very short time ago. That and EVE is showing its age. We see it in the market, the ISK build up. The simplest one shot fix to removing ISK? Delete accounts that never made it out of trial. Start saving them on another accounts server in the future and move them if they are purchased, delete them after 6 months if they aren't. After 8 years, I wouldnt even want to hazzard a guess how much ISK is dead ISK in EVE.
Kestrix	Posted - 2011.06.13 05:03:00 - [32] Originally by: Soden Rah Originally by: Elesaar Edited by: Elesaar on 12/06/2011 22:46:46 Edited by: Elesaar on 12/06/2011 22:46:21 Originally by: Mashie Saldana Because of technical reasons. like what, how can ccp create a walking in stations environment and new turret graphics if they can not delete a station that players made? A station with potentially tens of thousand's of assets in it... all of which suddenly cease to exist. logged of players, whose pod/clone contracts have to move elsewhere, and could be logging in just as it explodes. people in station with skills running who suddenly die... no code for that... and those are just the issues that come immediately to mind... the DB really doesn't like doing that stuff live. you would probably land up crashing every system on the server running it, as well as the DB server freaking out and causing the eve wide market to crash/lag out.... its way more trouble than its worth... you can't kill highsec stations either, and these are the player equivalent. This could be solved by placing the outpost into a critical condition (a bit like putting a POS into reinforced) Players then have untill the following downtime to evacuate the outpost. after which it and all items inside are removed from the servers and all players pods that have a clone else where are podded and the rest are 'evacuated' to the nearest high sec outpost.
fgft Athonille	Posted - 2011.06.13 05:09:00 - [33] pandering to carebears that is the only reason why it doesnt exist, the only reason why it will never exist end this thread Originally by: Skippermonkey keep trying and you can be an hero just like fgft Athonille Originally by: Singeaboot Raj Tbh i am beginning to see the win - it's the haircut, makes people take notice.
Allbrecht Crossfire Incorporated	Posted - 2011.06.13 05:52:00 - [34] If you log out of the game in 0.0, you accept the risk that you could lose it all. So, you should not be treated with pity for whatever reason if you lose all your assets in the outpost. This is Eve after all -- a pretty unforgiving game. Let all the assets burn. And yes, you should lose your clone and your implants if you're docked in the outpost. As far as clones go, just reset everyone's clone to the starting station they ever started in. All Amarr go to x, All Caldari go to y, etc. This might be a little time consuming to organize, but I doubt that outpost explosions would happen very often so overall it isn't a big deal. My 2c.
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.06.13 06:12:00 - [35] Edited by: Tres Farmer on 13/06/2011 06:14:32 I don't see unsolvable technical or lore or game-mechanical problems with destroying player built outposts. Thus said and to answer your question I don't see CCP having enough manpower at the moment, to plug this feature into the game now or Soon™... I support it with all consequences AFTER CCP fixed and cleaned up the mess that current in-game features are, namely (in no particular order): Sovereignty POS industrial interface corporation control interface realtime balancingÖ infrastructure bounty profession factional warfare planetary interaction T3 ships modular+random PVE content redesign of mining special fx like engine trails/cyno/etc pp ingame star map usability market interface the whole user interface balancing of all kinds of stuff (SC, rails, blasters, shipclasses, shiptypes, moon goo, etc. pp redesign of intel tools (local, d-scan, probing, overview, solar map, star map) ..and other stuff I missed to list up there, that others can easily tell you about.. Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!
Sealiah Minmatar Coffee Lovers Brewing Club ROMANIAN-LEGION	Posted - 2011.06.13 07:04:00 - [36] You, my sir, are insane. Implement destroying 0.0 outposts, then I want destroying high sec and low sec stations... That'd be the only fair way. The hardest thing is the amount of operations that have to be done if you'd erase a station. Sometimes literally thousands of characters docked, trillions of single items that have to be removed including ships, ammo, modules, implants, etc. Besides, with the current firepower in the hands of certain powerblocks or even single alliances (like PL for example), with their totally "griefing is fun" attitude, I expect to see half of new eden outpsots being destroyed in the first year, with more being destroyed than bought in the coming years untill finally 0.0 becomes again pos-only and npc-seeded station only space where nobody except the really biggest can live. Currently there is room for smaller alliances owning outposts. If you implemented destroying them, soon there would be no outposts left.
UGWidowmaker Caldari freelancers inc -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.06.13 07:50:00 - [37] i begged for this since 03 LOL well almost-... will never happend i supose. OMFG I am the widowmaker stay tuned. {yellow]Signature which is prompting a login has been removed. Navigator[/yellow]
Concord Commodore	Posted - 2011.06.13 07:56:00 - [38] I'd love to see this implemented. I'd also like to see low-sec stations be more sporadic. It seems odd to me, that there are so many stations in low-sec. Low-sec should have only 1 station for multiple jumps. Sadly, i'm sure this will never come to fruition.
Juliette DuBois	Posted - 2011.06.13 07:58:00 - [39] 0.0 would become empty except for people trying to cram into NPC stations. Major entities would take over these stations and push smaller ones finally out of 0.0 to lowsec. Nobody would deploy stations either unless effort to actually kill the station was like sieging it with dreads for weeks to end every day. I think some people might still do it anyway for lulz.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.13 08:16:00 - [40] Quote: The hardest thing is the amount of operations that have to be done if you'd erase a station. Sometimes literally thousands of characters docked, trillions of single items that have to be removed including ships, ammo, modules, implants, etc. This is totally easy to do. There's a lot more transactions performed during every downtime to check for expired offices and move items to impounded than this. The only reasons stations can't be destroyed are for gameplay. - They are extremely valuable assets that easily enable more figthing just to get hold of them. If anyone could self-destroy (or destroy) a station, there'd be lots less reasons to conquer the territory. - The possibility of a loss would encourage even more people to turtle inside NPC stations, sov space would be even more empty. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
salty Milk	Posted - 2011.06.13 08:21:00 - [41] you want consequences in eve? no that wont do at all well it will we like consequences but only for other people hisec carebear and lowsec gate campers maybe but nullsec god warriors? no there will be no consequences for them
Halcyon Ingenium Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.06.13 08:50:00 - [42] There is already zero incentive to build them, I am shocked people bothered at all sometimes. If they were destroyable, they would eventually disappear from the game. And who would care? The people that use them, until they got over it and found another way to live in null. Maybe the people that originally built them, but I doubt any outpost is still owned by its original builder, which would give them little reason to care other than nostalgia. I don't see any reason why this shouldn't be implemented, but I also see no reason why CCP should bother implementing it. Outpost destructibility is just such a non-issue, I almost expect to see it covered by Faux news. On the other hand has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? ________________________________________________ Huh?
baltec1	Posted - 2011.06.13 09:00:00 - [43] Originally by: Speaker4 theDead But there has to be a chance that any items in station drop, 1000's of cargo containers and ships, there for the grabbing! 10000 rifters and their bits all dropping at the same time. Quite possibly the most devestating weapon ever made!
Psiri	Posted - 2011.06.13 09:16:00 - [44] Originally by: Loraine Gess So OP do you know what an isk sink is? Because removing ASSETS and ITEMS is not the same as removing ISK. In effect it is.
Diotima Saraki	Posted - 2011.06.13 09:20:00 - [45] Originally by: Psiri Originally by: Loraine Gess So OP do you know what an isk sink is? Because removing ASSETS and ITEMS is not the same as removing ISK. In effect it is. /facepalm
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2011.06.13 10:23:00 - [46] Originally by: Psiri Originally by: Loraine Gess So OP do you know what an isk sink is? Because removing ASSETS and ITEMS is not the same as removing ISK. In effect it is. No, it's a wealth sink, because it removes player assets. It doesn't remove any ISK from the game, so it's not an ISK sink. In any case, I made a proposal last year to make 0.0 outposts wreckable, which was passed by the CSM and presented to CCP during the recent CSM summit. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Gwenywell Shumuku	Posted - 2011.06.13 10:25:00 - [47] Edited by: Gwenywell Shumuku on 13/06/2011 10:25:30 most of you ppl should stop talking about things you know nothing about, there is no technical barrier to do anything mentioned, its even stupidly simple, maybe some work, but hey....nothing comes free. Sure, do it during downtime (like the building process) if you must, implement a destruction timer (you can't dock till downtime after the station is in destructed-mode. The reason they didn't make outposts destructible was that once in a time they where "rare items" in the universe. They wanted space to be populated, and at 60Bil a piece (yea, that was alot of money back in the days) making them destructible would have stoped anyone from building them in the first place. But today? Please...you can basically walk around the universe on outposts without ever touching space. They have to go, or 0.0 will become worse than hisec (well, it already is safer).
xttz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.06.13 11:02:00 - [48] Edited by: xttz on 13/06/2011 11:03:13 Originally by: Elesaar What is the point of this? -Anybody can load their assets up into a capital ship(that's already in the station) and jump it out of a station once it's taken over. If you really want to hurt your enemies then destroying all their assets would do the trick instead of them jumping out of the system untouched a couple of hours later. Evacuating a station is usually not that simple. Sure, it's often possible to break out some assets but the majority of people will not get the majority of their stuff. There is also a real risk in the moment you undock - if you're tackled before you can warp or jump out there's little hope of getting anything out. Originally by: Elesaar Would require to much coding to do this. -I am sure CCP can find the time to add the coding if they were able to create to coding to walk around inside a station. Originally by: Elesaar Wouldn't the destruction of the station cause massive lag and crash EVE? -CCP could also make the removal of the station the same way you put it up, all you have to do is get the new station owner to press the self destruct button and have it burn until downtime giving everyone inside the station time to get out (If the enemy alliance is not camping the undock). Then during downtime it destroys everything that was in the station and moves all the clones back to empire. Once downtime is over the station will be gone, assets destroyed and clones back in empire. The issue isn't so much one of code, but how to deal with all the loose ends. Stations act as a foreign key in the database for scores of objects. All of these links need to be cleaned up properly and fairly. It's not just assets, but installations, industry jobs, jump clones, offices, upgrades, and so on. Each of these will have further links to other objects that could form a very complex chain. And of course beyond that, you have the API. There are many 3rd-party apps designed around the same foreign key relationships that would have to be redesigned, often from scratch, to deal with broken relationships and avoid crashes due to cached data. Originally by: Elesaar What about the thousands of assets in the station. -They go poof. The main idea for the station to be destroyed is to destroy the billions of assets that the previous alliance might of had in there. Here is CCP's big chance to add in a new isk sink. During downtime all the assets would be destroyed to prevent crashing the server. MMO Economics 101: Destroying assets is not an 'ISK sink'. An ISK sink is when ISK leaves the game, usually through an NPC medium. This includes sov bills, NPC-seeded items and NPC station fees. Blowing up assets means that to replace them you give ISK to another player, and the ISK remains in the economy and contributes to inflation. The method you describe is no different to blowing up ships or starbases. Originally by: Miilla Originally by: Mars Theran Technically, they are coded into the game. I think that's why actually. But sure as heck would be nice to destroy them. So when you anchor a POS; you are changing the CODE: No, please don't be deliberately obtuse. Unless of course you are obtuse, in which case just stop posting. Stations are static data, included in many complex relationships with other game entities and published as such. Deleting them is more akin to deleting planets, moons or even whole systems than a POS.
xttz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.06.13 11:04:00 - [49] Another issue I didn't see raised is one of real life. And the end of the day this is a video game, and people can find themselves unable to play for unexpected reasons. If a station and all your assets can be destroyed with less than a week's warning, the only effect you'll see is players just not using 0.0 space at all. It's not in CCP's interest to alienate players who have the cheek to go on a holiday or fall ill for more than a few days by destroying everything they've built up for years. That does not help them retain customers. Yes I am a "0.0 care bear", or whatever derogative term you prefer. To me this thread stinks of "hurr I hate those nullsec guys how can I *** them over and laugh about it to my e-friends*". If Eve should be as harsh and unforgiving as you all say, perhaps we can blow up empire stations too? Starting with stations around Heimatar (sup Miilla). Personally I think there should be more risk / reward to living in 0.0. Add reward in more options for the average player to make money through customisation of space and options to upgrade the territory using things like jumpbridges, defense structures and other upgrades. The risk should be the inevitable loss of sov, and the ability for hostiles to 'wreck' outposts as requested in a recent CSM proposal. This would mean that if sufficient damage was done to an outpost, it would be disabled and prevent further use of services or the ability to dock. The outpost would remain in space as a wreck and would retain assets inside. Players returning from an absence could still undock, providing they had a suitably fitted ship already within. And eventually, a new owner could come along and restore the wreck to its former glory by reconstructing it with outpost components.
Ghoest	Posted - 2011.06.14 00:17:00 - [50] Edited by: Ghoest on 14/06/2011 00:18:10 Originally by: fgft Athonille pandering to carebears that is the only reason why it doesnt exist, the only reason why it will never exist end this thread You have been given a ration reason why your suggestion is not reasonable and youre response - a non-sequitur insult. You are a troll please go ___ in a ___ or something. Wherever you went - Here you are.
cyclobs Minmatar	Posted - 2011.06.14 01:16:00 - [51] evenutally every system in 0.0 is going to have a station, thats when the real *****ing for destroyable stations will start happening.
Arya Greywolf	Posted - 2011.06.14 01:28:00 - [52] Edited by: Arya Greywolf on 14/06/2011 01:31:12 Originally by: xttz Yes I am a "0.0 care bear", or whatever derogative term you prefer. To me this thread stinks of "hurr I hate those nullsec guys how can I *** them over and laugh about it to my e-friends*". If Eve should be as harsh and unforgiving as you all say, perhaps we can blow up empire stations too? Starting with stations around Heimatar (sup Miilla). Nice straw man argument. High sec and null sec are clearly defined and extremely different, you can't compare them. Null sec is supposed to be lawless. I like this idea. I agree though that while CCP might like this, their staff is too small and they are other doing things like CQ.
Voith	Posted - 2011.06.14 01:42:00 - [53] Originally by: Miilla Edited by: Miilla on 12/06/2011 22:44:37 Because all the nullsec care bears would short circuit the server with tears. You never met a Nullsec hero I see. Well, they come to highsec trade hubs such as Rens, they huff puff and beat their chests and claim to be awesome and we should all go to nullsec, so we do, in our ECCM Tengus and Covert Ops ships. Search the forums for examples of tears (AFK cloakers whine threads and ECCM Tengu threads and NULLsec nerf threads). Wardec carebears are the best bears.
Xenuria Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.06.14 03:16:00 - [54] ok I am pretty sure the OP is a troll but here goes. YOU CAN destroy null sec outposts. I have seen people do it. "Sorry, Your Sov Options are Unavailable due to a PSN Outage."
Spurty Caldari V0LTA VOLTA Corp	Posted - 2011.06.14 03:30:00 - [55] Originally by: Xenuria ok I am pretty sure the OP is a troll but here goes. YOU CAN destroy null sec outposts. I have seen people do it. wut? Anyway, just allow everyone to dock at them. Cite: NPC space. Way more entertaining and far more cosmopolitan crowd Did my post force you to resort to a meme as a reply? Congrats, you're a moron.

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