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Battleships really underwhelming...

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baltec1	Posted - 2011.06.15 16:48:00 - [31] Originally by: Alexa Akiga Originally by: Robert Caldera battleships are fine. use the right ship for a certain purpose. If there are a lot of smaller ships, a battleship is nearly useless - you should not use battleships. You've probably heard something about "shooting birds with cannons", didnt you? Im not having issues fighting frigates lol. I cant even hit BCs I love roaming in my mega/hyperion and have few issues hitting cruisers. My biggest problem is finding things that wont run away the second I land on grid. Seems to me you either have fitting issues, using the wrong tactics or you need to skill up a bit more. Probs a mix of all 3.
Helena Vexar	Posted - 2011.06.15 17:28:00 - [32] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Alexa Akiga Originally by: Robert Caldera battleships are fine. use the right ship for a certain purpose. If there are a lot of smaller ships, a battleship is nearly useless - you should not use battleships. You've probably heard something about "shooting birds with cannons", didnt you? Im not having issues fighting frigates lol. I cant even hit BCs I love roaming in my mega/hyperion and have few issues hitting cruisers. My biggest problem is finding things that wont run away the second I land on grid. Seems to me you either have fitting issues, using the wrong tactics or you need to skill up a bit more. Probs a mix of all 3. You are also using a hyperion which uses blasters, and do not have issues hitting things up close. Pulses have horrible tracking up closed compared to blasters, its not a comparison.
Orlacc	Posted - 2011.06.15 17:34:00 - [33] I don't like BS either. You don't HAVE to fly 'em.
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.06.15 17:37:00 - [34] Obviously you need to stop flying Amarr battleships then since you are incapable of taking on board any advice and are just going to argue the toss constantly. GTFO. ~~~
baltec1	Posted - 2011.06.15 17:43:00 - [35] Originally by: Helena Vexar Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Alexa Akiga Originally by: Robert Caldera battleships are fine. use the right ship for a certain purpose. If there are a lot of smaller ships, a battleship is nearly useless - you should not use battleships. You've probably heard something about "shooting birds with cannons", didnt you? Im not having issues fighting frigates lol. I cant even hit BCs I love roaming in my mega/hyperion and have few issues hitting cruisers. My biggest problem is finding things that wont run away the second I land on grid. Seems to me you either have fitting issues, using the wrong tactics or you need to skill up a bit more. Probs a mix of all 3. You are also using a hyperion which uses blasters, and do not have issues hitting things up close. Pulses have horrible tracking up closed compared to blasters, its not a comparison. Scorch is the single greatest ammo type in this game and if people would let me nano up an apoc then I would have a great deal of fun roaming in it.
Duchess Starbuckington	Posted - 2011.06.15 18:14:00 - [36] Originally by: Lady Spank Obviously you need to stop flying Amarr battleships then since you are incapable of taking on board any advice and are just going to argue the toss constantly. GTFO. ^ This. You're moaning that: 1. Things keep getting close to you. 2. Pulses do not hit things that are close. If you can't see the problem with how you're using those ships then... well, honestly I feel sorry for you. _________________________________ ROCKET STATUS: FIX IN PROGRESS...
Dark Pangolin Caldari Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse	Posted - 2011.06.15 18:15:00 - [37] Originally by: baltec1 Scorch is the single greatest ammo type in this game and if people would let me nano up an apoc then I would have a great deal of fun roaming in it. Confirming nano-pulse lazer apoc with scorch = awesome roam boat (in teams, not solo). BCs are for solo BSs are not. Conversation over. Good luck to the OP my recomendatio is to switch to a harb for your preferred PVP style.
Val'Dore Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided	Posted - 2011.06.15 18:15:00 - [38] Originally by: Alexa Akiga Originally by: Val'Dore Edited by: Val''Dore on 15/06/2011 16:06:39 To be quite frank, an Armageddon is quite the capable soloer when up against BCs... if fit and flown properly. Fit DHP not Mega Pulse, use the heavy neut (though many times it will hurt you more than the target), use a long point with the neut... or no point at all (yes I'm serious about that). Fit a hvy injector and a 60% web, and either a sensor booster to lock faster or a tracking computer. In lows fit no less than 3 heat sinks, maybe a tracking enhancer or two, then at least two eanms and as many 1600 RT plates as you have low slots left. Then rig for trimarks. I don't recommend active tanking the geddon as it has cap issues to start with and doesn't benefit from the high resists of the Abaddon. Oh, and use EC-900s. So u recommend no prop mod? In most situations, when flying a brick... yes. The scenarios in which such a thing would be useful aren't as many as you would think and 'burning back to the gate' is pointless since anyone you would run from is more than able to stop and kill you anyway. So unless you plan to nano the geddon, which is not altogether a bad idea, a prop mod is usually just a waste of fittings. ~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~ Tiericide
Manda Rin Minmatar Sexy Thoughts	Posted - 2011.06.15 19:08:00 - [39] Fly this [Armageddon, raepBCs] Damage Control II Heat Sink II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Tracking Enhancer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Heat Sink II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Heavy Energy Neutralizer II Large Energy Burst Aerator I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Anti-Explosive Pump I Warrior II x5 Hammerhead II x5 Valkyrie II x5
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.06.15 19:23:00 - [40] Originally by: Helena Vexar I have been pvping for a while now in militia and null sec, My skills are pretty decent, and I have tried every different type of fit I can think of to make my BS worth a damn in pvp. I have no problem when I fly smaller ships or battle cruisers, but BS really seem to be big expensive targets with nothing they really excel at other than station bashing. How is this a problem? BS are far more capable than you give them credit for but they are NOT small gang ships. They are camping/fleet ships primarily.

Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.06.15 20:35:00 - [41] Originally by: Alexa Akiga If im going to spend 200 million isk on a ship, it better damn well out perform my fully fitted 65 mill hurricane. Forget what was said in the beginning of the thread. This is your problem. EVE does not work that way. Bigger is not better around here ù it is simply bigger. For things that require bigger ships, this means they're better at that particular thing. For stuff that doesn't require bigger ships, they won't be better ù in fact, they're most likely worse. However, for what they do, battleships are pretty much best in class, and that's what you pay for. In fact, since they are T1, you're not even paying that much. Compare this with other "best in class" candidates ships such as HICs or Hulks or Recons and you'll notice that they tend to cost similar amounts, You'll also note that "not best at anything but more than adequate for many thing"-ships are generally very cheap in comparison, and alsoà wellà more than adequate. The BCs fit squarely into this category. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
FloppieTheBanjoClown	Posted - 2011.06.15 22:07:00 - [42] The comparison to a real-world naval fleet can only go so far, but you'll notice that since battleships were first put into service, they rarely traveled alone. This is because they ARE so vulnerable to smaller ships, especially groups of specialized ships. A large ship that packs a lot of firepower requires a fleet to support it. In the militia areas I occasionally roam through, I see very few large ships. A battlecruiser or T3 from time to time, but almost no battleships. I have taken oddly-fitted battlecruisers into lowsec before, stuff designed to take on the frigates and destroyers that dominate the field there. It makes for some amusing battles when they realize you aren't what they expected.
Majuan Shuo Gallente Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2011.06.15 22:09:00 - [43] Then maybe it is an amarr bs thing. I have not tried other races bs, but then again autcannons have much better tracking than pulses. But I know for fact i just got into a fight where I had the cane webbed and scrammed and kept him at 8000 meteres. My pulses could not do a volly higher than 700. I lost my bs just to test it it is, amarr lack the midslots to solo properly caldari also lack midslots WHEN you take into account that most of those slots are for caldari tank (if you are soloing) so minmatar and gallente have been the broad choices for soloing players, with minmatar being ahead of gallente for sometime now in this regard (though gallente has a few really nice ships, mostly the drone boats like the ishkur, vexor, ishtar, myrmidon, and dominix)
Qalm Anity Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.06.16 09:19:00 - [44] In your post it seemed like you were seeking help with the BS hull, or commenting on your experience with its weaknesses. However, I detected (perhaps incorrectly) an undercurrent of "I spent X ISK on a big ship therefore I should win." Granted, I had to read into your post and could be off=base, but this seems like an appropriate post to express the following. I've read too many threads arguing that skill points and amount of isk spent should inherently grant a killmail. For me, though, a big draw to Eve was that skill points matter, but do not automatically determine who flies away in a pod. To be blunt,I'm training myself and my character to hunt people in larger ships with more skill points. If I can track it down and engage, every body wins regardless of who explodes. What I would hate to see is a game where skill points, ship size, and isk spent absolutely determined the outcome. If this were the case, we could simply check ship type, player info, and module cost. CARBON UI could then provide a choice between "accept win" or "engage and say 'gf' in local." That's not the game I would like to play, and to date, has not been my experience. Pretty much everyone outskills me at Eve, but as I learn this will hopefully not be the case and I'll get my fair shot at a few older players in larger ships. I realize I've somewhat side-stepped your post and made some assumptions. As such, this reply is not towards you directly, but towards those who feel they need free wins because they have older characters and/or spent more on their ship.
Jita Von Trade	Posted - 2011.06.16 09:39:00 - [45] Edited by: Jita Von Trade on 16/06/2011 09:46:07 Edited by: Jita Von Trade on 16/06/2011 09:44:10 Originally by: Wannabehero Dual webs? Certain battleships are better at engaging the types of targets you seem to be having troubles with (BCs, specifically canes?). Without more specifics of the type of situations and the types of battleships and fittings you used, its hard to give advice. You shouldn't really be having troubles with canes... entirely depends what you're shooting with and what kinda range you can get them at. But for militia, no sense using BS cause you'll be swarmed by cheapfit rifters :p EDIT: Found it, or didn't some guy just posted a failfit. Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 So realistically you've got no mobility, you can't move fast enough to interrupt anybody's orbit or catch anyone outside of 10km range that uses a MWD or even a burner with point. They have full transversal and really bad pilots who click orbit and press f1 will probably ruin you no problem. Even with such a heavy armor tank, 1k movement to a hard break can create a nice elliptical orbit, and at the peak you'll lower their transversal for a nice popshot. Manually fly in each direction to cause this but tbh without a MWD on you will have no hope.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2011.06.16 14:31:00 - [46] Battleships are niche. More so than cruisers or BCs, for all the reasons you list. They _can_ pull an impressive amount of firepower, but it's mostly anti-battleship, and it really needs the support for it too. Don't give up though - they start to really shine when your skills start to climb. T2 weapons aren't _just_ 8% damage. There's the supporting skills. True, only a few percent here and there, but those really do rack up.
Kagumichan	Posted - 2011.06.16 15:18:00 - [47] If you're having trouble hitting a BC up-close try using a tracking computer and crystals that increase tracking speed (and swapping your guns for something with more tracking). BC's probably do get up close to try and get under your guns, but if you do all of the above, you'll scare the hell out of them when you continuing punching through them when they sit on your front lawn. If you're trying to use enormous guns to kill a smaller ship, just put this image into your head: A man swatting a fly with a cement block is less likely to hit the fly than if he used a fly swatter.
Straight Edged	Posted - 2011.06.16 16:10:00 - [48] Wait till you meet abaddon blobs
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.16 16:11:00 - [49] Originally by: Kagumichan crystals that increase tracking speed Wait, what? ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Kagumichan	Posted - 2011.06.16 16:19:00 - [50] Originally by: The Djego Originally by: Kagumichan crystals that increase tracking speed Wait, what? Ah my bad, had the weird idea that Scorch crystals boosted tracking speed (too much energy drink in the morning makes you believe crazy things like that). But still the other tracking speed stuff should be viable I imagine.

Tyme Xandr Gallente United Eve Directorate	Posted - 2011.06.16 16:28:00 - [51] if ur coming up against BC and down ships often why dont u fit a harby out? When I was in Caldari militia we came up across nano fit BCs, Cruisers, Frigs often and had to fit out accordingly.
Kagumichan	Posted - 2011.06.16 17:18:00 - [52] oh I was right about tracking speed and crystals, Scorch crystals give 0.75x increased tracking speed multiplier as opposed to conflags 0.7x, just checked it in-game, so you could actually switch crystals to slightly increase your chance to hit something that's too close.
slightly sillydude	Posted - 2011.06.16 17:37:00 - [53] Theres no law that says you cant put medium weapons on it. Yes its less damage and range but you get to keep your 100k+ hp.
Tyme Xandr Gallente United Eve Directorate	Posted - 2011.06.16 17:54:00 - [54] Originally by: slightly sillydude Theres no law that says you cant put medium weapons on it. Yes its less damage and range but you get to keep your 100k+ hp. And fitting medium weapons would allow for a much larger tank and better cap as well if hes insistent on flying a BS over a BC.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.16 18:07:00 - [55] Originally by: Kagumichan oh I was right about tracking speed and crystals, Scorch crystals give 0.75x increased tracking speed multiplier as opposed to conflags 0.7x, just checked it in-game, so you could actually switch crystals to slightly increase your chance to hit something that's too close. You don't use conflags/scorch vs undersized targets at close range in PVP, this is just silly. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Sol Ripper	Posted - 2011.06.16 18:48:00 - [56] Originally by: Kagumichan oh I was right about tracking speed and crystals, Scorch crystals give 0.75x increased tracking speed multiplier as opposed to conflags 0.7x, just checked it in-game, so you could actually switch crystals to slightly increase your chance to hit something that's too close. Might want to check your math. A .75 multiplier is actually a penalty. A buff in the same format would have to be >1. A multiplier of 1.25 is a 25% increase in tracking where a .75 multiplier is a 25% penalty to tracking. If you have a tracking speed of 1 radians/sec and have a tracking multiplier of .75 you end up with a tracking speed of .75 radians/sec. If you have the same tracking speed of 1 radians/sec and multiply it by 1.25 you have a tracking speed of 1.25 radians/sec. .75 r/s < 1 r/s < 1.25 r/s
Dethmourne Silvermane Gallente Saiph Industries SRS.	Posted - 2011.06.16 18:52:00 - [57] I can only assume OP is trolling.
Illuminaty	Posted - 2011.06.16 19:44:00 - [58] BCs are like destroyers. Ok, the Tier 2 BCs are rather OP, but they are still like destroyers. Destroyers fall out of the sky in flames when a cruiser locks them because cruiser guns can track them just fine. If you can't kill BCs with a BS, you are doing it wrong. BS vs BC is the absolute best match-up possible for a BS, because a BC is just a super-sized cruiser with a sig that makes it vulnerable to large weapons. Also, are your drone skills awful? Drones are half the battle when fighting ships smaller than your weapons. Neuts too. Heavy neut + drones means a smaller sized ship is going to have trouble.
Kagumichan	Posted - 2011.06.16 19:54:00 - [59] oooh, sorry I never did quite get my head around tracking multipliers and stuff, now it makes more sense to me (it's kinda like trying to work out inertia sometimes, college level mathematics and all that ((damn why didn't i pay attention in schoo???!! >.<))) anyways now that is clear then yes swapping crystals on large turrets still wouldn't work, so go with what others said and use medium guns, that'll hit those pesky flies... i mean, battlecruisers.
Kagumichan	Posted - 2011.06.17 00:05:00 - [60] Now, this is probably a silly idea, I'll probably get trolled for it, but it's just an after-thought, but you could perhaps add blasters to your Amarr BC. Sure you'd get no bonuses 'cos it's amarr and you're using hybrid weaponry, but if a BC got up close to you then you punched a huge hole in their shields 'cos of fitting blasters, it'd scare the hell out of them and force them to move out of blaster range, which wouldn't work 'cos the second they're out of blaster range they're immediately in laser range, or make them leave pronto for lack of knowing what they're up against. Abaddon's can use 8 turret points so putting 4 big lasers and 4 blasters on would mean you could hit things from anywhere except extreme range, sure you wouldn't be able to do full dps, and like I said, it's a silly idea, but an Amarr BS can have a huge armour tank compared to anything a BC can pack (within reason) so the longevity may make it possible to kill what you're up against, maybe add some target jamming drones to the mix and there's not a lot they can do aside from either warping away or sitting around getting shot by a fitting that seems absolutely ridiculous.



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