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Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2011.06.21 18:10:00 - [1] PLEX, Aurum, Safe Vanity, Rumor Mill So you PLEX speculators, of which I am not as I have yet to use PLEX as an investment, what say you on the development of worn vanity items not being destructible? This should impact expected rates of change with regard to PLEX value. Will this change accelerate or decelerate the marginal utility of vanity items and as such impact PLEX? Also there is a rumor of some 'first hit is free' Aurum out there, though I've nothing to confirm this. If that is true, then it would soften an increase in PLEX price, assuming of course lots of people are going to rush out and buy Quafe pants in the first place. There is also the new detail that, for the start at least, Aurum will not be transferable. (IMO, they'll have to put it on the market, or never allow it to be transferable. The scamming nature of Eve and the sure to be generated petitions over Aurum scams versus ISK scams is a cost CCP likely doesn't want to face. The change in the safety of worn vanity is an indication that should not be ignored in this regard.) The intent of this thread is not a thread about price in so much as it is a thread about expected changes in equilibrium. Have Fun! My faith in CCP will return SoonÖ
Claire Voyant	Posted - 2011.06.21 18:48:00 - [2] Edited by: Claire Voyant on 21/06/2011 18:49:07 1. Indestructible vanity items will initially raise their perceived value, but eventually they will suffer serious deflation. In other words, buy one if you intend to use it now. 2. Temporarily non-transferable aurum means you can only acquire it in 3500 chunks. If the vanity items you want to acquire are much less, you might be tempted to buy them on the market for isk, thus jump starting the secondary market for vanity items. 3. Non-transferable aurum in the future could create serious problems with the whole Eve-Dust economic interface and would lead to people jumping over hurdles to convert one currency into another to buy the stuff they want. It cannot last long. Seriously, I doubt SCC is concerned very much about scams. As for the effect on PLEX, I have always said the effect will be minimal so I guess I have to stick to that position. But when PLEX prices crash in the next couple of weeks I suppose some people will find some way to blame it on these changes, thus proving themselves right in their own minds. ;-)
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2011.06.21 19:09:00 - [3] Originally by: Claire Voyant 3. Non-transferable aurum in the future could create serious problems with the whole Eve-Dust economic interface and would lead to people jumping over hurdles to convert one currency into another to buy the stuff they want. It cannot last long. Seriously, I doubt SCC is concerned very much about scams. We would have to assume Dust Aurum and Eve Aurum are indeed equivalent in real world monetary terms, which may very well be the case, frankly it is what I expect. However CCP seems to desire as much abstraction as they can in terms of currency values. It would seem to me that, if the only transferable currency were Aurum or if Aurum were even allowed, then the 'pay to win' argument gains ground. ISK is much more abstracted from real world money. As such, the pay to win argument is somewhat softened if the only common currency between Dust and Eve is ISK, and perhaps one day commodities. Additionally the ability to transport Aurum between Eve and Dust would create even greater deflationary pressures on the already inside-out, in broken window fallacy terms, economy of Eve. Of course CCP didn't think much through with Scorpion-Gate or 3rdPartyMonetization-Gate, so who knows. :) As for the scams, I'm not so sure. Perhaps you're right, I do recall GTC scams from way back were dealt with rather firmly, if I am not mistaken. Contract scams involving PLEX, I don't have any evidence either way. I should probably stop giving them free advice. CCP, forthwith you are required to pay me $99 a year for my advice. Thank you for your compliance. My faith in CCP will return SoonÖ
Dethmourne Silvermane Gallente Saiph Industries SRS.	Posted - 2011.06.21 19:17:00 - [4] Scorpion-Gate?
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2011.06.21 19:22:00 - [5] Edited by: Adunh Slavy on 21/06/2011 19:22:43 Originally by: Dethmourne Silvermane Scorpion-Gate? CCP had proposed to release a scorpion from the Cashshop. The ship would have been created for Au and nothing else. The SandBox Protection League, of which I am a part, went absolutely bat **** crazy. Ref, http://eve-search.com/thread/1527783/page/1 My faith in CCP will return SoonÖ
Tutskii	Posted - 2011.06.21 19:24:00 - [6] Originally by: CCP Zinfandel Thanks for bringing this up. And I did chuckle at the great "killmail" above. We finalized on the following characteristics: -clothing are destructible while in your cargo (like anything else) -clothing are not destroyed if podded while worn - you will wake up in your new clone wearing the same outfit -clothing does not travel with you if you take advantage of a jump clone - it remains in the previous station -items such as the eye implants or Amarr monocles which are installed in the body do NOT behave like implants but can be removed and put on again at will (or even resold.) We believe these settings best serve both our current population as well as those players who come later and learn to play EVE Online without the benefit of a specific briefing on the new functionality. This considered, I believe everything hinges on how popular the new outfits are. A lot of people were concerned that they would lose items that cost real money if podded wearing them, this has been addressed. Beyond that the consideration is whether there is amusing enough items that are adopted by the population in large quantities. If there is, say, a monocle fad, then PLEX will skyrocket even further than the 400 million it reached last night before shutdown. On the other hand, if people aren't concerned with how they look in the forever alone comfort of the minmatar captains quarters, then it might drop quite fast. This change does mean that, even if there is a fad that causes everyone to wear X item for a while, said items will become saturated in the market, as with little way to destroy them once worm, less and less will be bought via plex overtime. This would make PLEX price spikes cyclical whenever there are new Aurum item announcements (if the items are popular). Its hard to know the effect Aurum being non transferrable will have since we don't know the Aurum prices for items. If 3500 is enough to be perceived as good, or great value, or make it likely that youd recoup the isk cost reselling items, then PLEX will go up. IF thats not the case, then probably not. Either way historically there is a race to put new things on the market (IE Noctis) which means that its likely that there will be a large subset of people buying items to relist for insane isk amounts. So I think for the time being PLEX will be quite a bit higher. For how long (forever?) depends on the other mentioned concerns. But hey, this is just my opinion, veteran players warn about speculation with PLEX, so, who knows. http://www.eveonline.com/iNgameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1516147 mcvs!
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2011.06.21 19:38:00 - [7] Originally by: Tutskii Fad Perspective I would agree with the Fad argument. It will be interesting to see how CCP, if they even try that is, attempts to influence the market and create trends and fads upon which they can capitalize, not to mention how long they can pull that sort of thing off, if at all. As someone who has wandered SL and watched how things develop, fads can occur. Most often they are defined, in SL at any rate, by the quality of the work. What SL has that CCP doesn't in this regard is a large competitive market with many people contributing to the marketplace with goods. CCP has no such competition in the 'fashion world' of Eve. Monopolies with little competition, tend to in the long run, fail to impress. My faith in CCP will return SoonÖ
Claire Voyant	Posted - 2011.06.21 19:38:00 - [8] I don't have time to find the thread now, but there was one on MD about the Dust economy and we looked at everything that had been said to date and pretty much concluded that both games would have the same isk and aurum, but that transferability of aurum (between players and between games) was not talked about. Isk is clearly transferable through corp wallets and probably other ways.
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2011.06.21 19:41:00 - [9] Originally by: Claire Voyant Dust-Eve Currency Link Yep, I recall that thread. For the start I think many guess it will be ISK only. My faith in CCP will return SoonÖ
Tutskii	Posted - 2011.06.21 19:47:00 - [10] Originally by: Adunh Slavy Originally by: Tutskii Fad Perspective I would agree with the Fad argument. It will be interesting to see how CCP, if they even try that is, attempts to influence the market and create trends and fads upon which they can capitalize, not to mention how long they can pull that sort of thing off, if at all. As someone who has wandered SL and watched how things develop, fads can occur. Most often they are defined, in SL at any rate, by the quality of the work. What SL has that CCP doesn't in this regard is a large competitive market with many people contributing to the marketplace with goods. CCP has no such competition in the 'fashion world' of Eve. Monopolies with little competition, tend to in the long run, fail to impress. How to develop fads? they could use the real life approach and give promotional items to opinion makers and trend setters for free. Say Garmon gets a set of FOTM's Golden Ferrari Puma running shoes, or some such. This is likely to not be received well by the community. Which brings option two: Product placement! Make the standard outfits as bland as possible and present the Aurum items EVERYWHERE. People, especially new players will expect things to look a certain way based on the promotional material. Voila, instant fad. The most important component in any analysis will be the price of Aurum items in Aurum, anyway. Is it 100 Aurum? (so you can get 35 items and sell them at some 15 million each on average and recoup your PLEX), or is it 500 Aurum per? This makes a big difference. As for Dust.. as a long time console gamer I think its DOA. CCP is going with a pay to win model which is unpopular on consoles at the best of times, and also charging 60 dollars for admittance. A ridiculous price point for a multiplayer only game from an unknown franchise that looks.. generic to put it mildly. The opinion on that has been.. poor, to put it extremely kindly. http://www.eveonline.com/iNgameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1516147 mcvs!
RAW23	Posted - 2011.06.21 19:54:00 - [11] Slightly off-topic but does anyone think that the 1 PLEX = 3500 AURUM exchange rate indicates that CCP desire a PLEX price in the region of 350mil?
Tutskii	Posted - 2011.06.21 20:01:00 - [12] Originally by: RAW23 Slightly off-topic but does anyone think that the 1 PLEX = 3500 AURUM exchange rate indicates that CCP desire a PLEX price in the region of 350mil? Perhaps. Their "one time EVE related promotions" that seem to show up when it goes much higher than that do seem to indicate that they want it lower than say, 400. But it all depends on the cost of Aurum items. Also, it might have been simply been chosen because its a nice round number that is not even. This is so that if your prices are even, people will always have some left over/be short money for "one more item". A common trick to make people buy more, or to keep the currency in their mind. If that was the case then items would cost, say 200 Aurum. http://www.eveonline.com/iNgameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1516147 mcvs!
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2011.06.21 20:37:00 - [13] Edited by: Adunh Slavy on 21/06/2011 20:38:51 Originally by: Tutskii Also, it might have been simply been chosen because its a nice round number that is not even. This is so that if your prices are even, people will always have some left over/be short money for "one more item". A common trick to make people buy more, or to keep the currency in their mind. If that was the case then items would cost, say 200 Aurum. That's a good point. This is why a drink in a bar never costs an even bill. It's always a 3.25, 2.40, something, so you leave some change on the table. Let me edit that, so you are 'encouraged' to leave some change on the table. If prices are primes, Tutskil should get a prize. My faith in CCP will return SoonÖ
RAW23	Posted - 2011.06.21 20:45:00 - [14] I'm not entirely convinced by Tutskii's argument as I have been carrying around in my head a claim that standard items would cost something like a small multiple of 100k isk equivalent (which makes sense for clothing, at least, but I'm not sure where I got the info from). If that's the case then there is not really going to be an issue of leaving some but not enough AURUM over from the majority of purchases. That issue will only kick in with very big ticket items costing multiples of 1k AURUM or roughly worth 100s of millions of isk.
Zeta Zhul Caldari Preemptive Paranoia	Posted - 2011.06.21 21:08:00 - [15] So let me get this straight. My implants won't survive a podding but my monocle will? ??? What does it show up on my clone? Does it drop as loot?
Claire Voyant	Posted - 2011.06.21 21:14:00 - [16] Originally by: RAW23 Slightly off-topic but does anyone think that the 1 PLEX = 3500 AURUM exchange rate indicates that CCP desire a PLEX price in the region of 350mil? Probably more to do with the $35 for a GTC and 1750 Aurum per PLEX would be too odd. It just makes it easy to remember that 200 aurum cost $1.
Vierego Vierego's Junk Imports	Posted - 2011.06.21 22:33:00 - [17] Originally by: Zeta Zhul So let me get this straight. My implants won't survive a podding but my monocle will? ??? What does it show up on my clone? Does it drop as loot? All I know is I told myself I wasn't going to get roped into this barbie and ken BS, but I have determined I have a price for my integrity. Two words. Cowboy Hat
Sollana Amarr The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.21 23:32:00 - [18] CCP you having a laugh, 3500 Aurum for 1 plex = 10 Aurum for 1 Mill isk. Womens "Greave" knee-boots 2400 AUR = 240 mill boots more expensive than a command ship.....you SURE???? Put too many 0000000's in?
Flumpflo	Posted - 2011.06.21 23:41:00 - [19] Edited by: Flumpflo on 21/06/2011 23:42:22 im confused on this shop stuff since we in May now and not April 1st. i dont care if the cleaner did it but you can not serisouly justify 19.99euro for a pair of boots, correct me if im wrong but 1 plex is 19.99 euro and 1 plex gives 3500
Alter X	Posted - 2011.06.21 23:44:00 - [20] Oh well... guess AURUM won't be a plex sink afterall. If anyone buys any vanity items today they are crazy... CCP have to drop the prices (by at least a factor of 10) or it's just a massive big fail. ...anyone actually admitting to buying one of these items is going to be laughed at for months as being a total dumbass :)
Flump Amarr Renegade Traders	Posted - 2011.06.21 23:46:00 - [21] of course there will be people with large surplus of isk who wont care. personaly at moment im quite happy with how my default guy looks anyway so this joke is not a big deal. its just lucky they didnt make the default outfits a pair of flipflops and a flower print shirt or else i would be skint now.
Tutskii	Posted - 2011.06.21 23:48:00 - [22] As expected, the prices do not correlate to 3500 Aurum per plex in a neat way, you will always need "one more plex" to buy most things or have a lot of aurum left over. Completely unexpected to me was that in many cases Aurum clothes cost more than real clothes. The price is not 100 or 200 Aurum per item, but in many cases, a lot more than a Plex worth. That monocle? A bit less than 4 Plex. You know that episode of the simpsons where Homer designs a car? I now know what his brother felt like. CCP went full ****. The clothes in the store are in many cases MORE expensive than real clothes. The panic selling of PLEX at the realization of the extent of CCP's ****ity has begun. The problem with predictions is that we were expecting rational behaviour. This more than shows DUST is going to be a monumental failure and the extent of CCP's disconnection with reality. I give up! Buy waffles.. or rather sell them! http://www.eveonline.com/iNgameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1516147 mcvs!
Flump Amarr Renegade Traders	Posted - 2011.06.21 23:52:00 - [23] what worrys me is the person behind the clothes is the same one who made dust a ps3 only. then we are screwed.
Vierego Vierego's Junk Imports	Posted - 2011.06.22 00:00:00 - [24] My friends, my friends you don't not understand the extreme craftsmanship. Here take a step into my stall. These boots were made by monks of the 3rd planet of Orduin by the exclusive monk cast who are without hands and have to use their feet to craft them. The materials gathered from over 7 different systems in 12 different regions. Yes my friend, we had to break physics to bring you these materials. Surely you must now appreciate that at these prices they are a steal.
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2011.06.22 00:25:00 - [25] I'm lauging too much to comment in this thread at the moment. Just LOL CCP My faith in CCP will return SoonÖ
Rellik B00n Lethal Death Squad	Posted - 2011.06.22 00:56:00 - [26] Edited by: Rellik B00n on 22/06/2011 00:59:30 20 quid for trousers? I can't remember the last time I paid 20 quid for actual REAL trousers - the cloth variety made somewhere where labour is cheap. Im sticking to my default outfit "wearing an internet spaceship." also panic PLEX sale complete at no loss, I reckon a few ppl might get burned on this one. 20 QUID! TWO-OH POUNDS! CCP are ****ing crazy. edit: It feels a little like those people that start a business and tell you about it starting with the phrase "I only have to sell 50,000 pairs of these trousers and ill have made A MILLION!" . -IRON MIKE IS hi sec lolwarrior-
Zeta Zhul Caldari Preemptive Paranoia	Posted - 2011.06.22 01:10:00 - [27] Originally by: Vierego Originally by: Zeta Zhul So let me get this straight. My implants won't survive a podding but my monocle will? ??? What does it show up on my clone? Does it drop as loot? All I know is I told myself I wasn't going to get roped into this barbie and ken BS, but I have determined I have a price for my integrity. Two words. Cowboy Hat Oh baby Jesus! If they put in snakeskin cowboy boots, bourbon and smokeable cigars I'm totally screwed.
Gillaboo	Posted - 2011.06.22 01:13:00 - [28] Can't say that the exchange rate of Aurum/PLEX is going to inspire me to buy anything until PLEX become substantially cheaper. Not that I'll be holding my breath.
Zeta Zhul Caldari Preemptive Paranoia	Posted - 2011.06.22 01:21:00 - [29] Edited by: Zeta Zhul on 22/06/2011 01:24:23 Ok now I want everyone on the count of three to repeat after me. 1 2 3 But they have an Economist on staff!! ... It's funny but I'm actually reassured. For a few hours there I wondered if CCP could pull this off without screwing it all up. But then I thought to myself, "Zeta... is it even in the realm of possibility that CCP won't screw this up?". And then one of my trade alts slapped the hell out of me. So here we are. Aurum is a joke. This clothes nonsense is a massive laughing fail. And the frigging API is broken on GetCharacterWalletTransactions(). Probably we'll find out what else is completely and utterly screwed up over the next couple of weeks while people endure massive failure after failure after failure. All is right with the world. Bless us, everyone.
Zeta Zhul Caldari Preemptive Paranoia	Posted - 2011.06.22 01:27:00 - [30] Originally by: Vierego My friends, my friends you don't not understand the extreme craftsmanship. Here take a step into my stall. These boots were made by monks of the 3rd planet of Orduin by the exclusive monk cast who are without hands and have to use their feet to craft them. The materials gathered from over 7 different systems in 12 different regions. Yes my friend, we had to break physics to bring you these materials. Surely you must now appreciate that at these prices they are a steal. Amazingly enough I knew a guy who didn't have arms but drove a car with a manual transmission. A 4-speed stick.

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