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An overdue apology and request for parley

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 19 post(s)
JoeBear770 Amarr Faster Muffins	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:49:00 - [1141] In my over 3 years in this game I feel Eve is a community. A community with strong ties to each other and yes, to CCP as well. I can't speak for everyone, but my feeling is that with the release of the internal document coupled with the Incarna performance issues and the ridiculously high priced vanity items, we the community feel we are being taken advantage of. We are being used as test mules for the WOD graphics, squeezed financially to fund other non-Eve games, and yes we have a sense of betrayal. The "golden goose" that has funded you for years and has given you your jobs is being crushed under the weight of demands that its not our business to bear. There are those in CCP who are former and current players, who truly love the game, and another element whose goal is to up the financial stakes at any cost, even at the risk of offending/alienating/losing old and newer Eve players. Yes, CCP is in business to make money (who isn't) but at what cost to the playerbase? There's an old saying, don't bite the hand that feeds you, and I think it's appropriate here. No, I am not cancelling my sub at this time......Why? Because CCP is at a crossroads and still has a chance to right their wrongs, perceived or otherwise. Make CQ an option which yes, some will choose to do, bring back the ship spinning (a token gesture perhaps, but it shows you care) and stop messing directly with the market by attempting to pull in huge amounts of isk for what should be low or moderate cost items. Show at least some additional effort at combatting botting and macros. Will this be a cure-all? No, but it's a start and may help sway some players on the fence to give CCP a shot at redemption.
Shinzann Dead poets society The Laughing Men	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:49:00 - [1142] Originally by: Lewitin Awesomir Originally by: BeanBagKing Quote: Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items? This, but more importantly, whatever your answer, how will we trust you? http://hosted.corelicorp.net/micro.jpg === Q u o t e: If the servers aren't up, its not a hotfix.
Kallynda Nai	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:49:00 - [1143] Originally by: Mara Rinn Originally by: Adunh Slavy CCP will now attempt to redefine what the word "vanity" means. van+i+ty n. excessive pride in one's appearance, qualities, abilities, achievements, etc.; Now given that definition, would you consider it excessive to pay 1.4B ISK for a monocle that does nothing but alter your appearance? Considering the rage on the forums, I think the answer to that is yes. CSM said, "vanity items only". CCP delivered vanity writ large upon the stage. Forum dwellers rage up because they're not vain enough for CCP's vanity items. BUNCH OF HYPOCRITES. Faction ammo and T3 ships are vanity items c/d?
Kewso	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:49:00 - [1144] CCP Never Lied they said there would not be microtransactions! that's the truth... They NEVER said there would not be macrotransactions though... so stfu and get back to farming isk... -grin- ----------------------- A Dysfunctional Playground
Zangorus	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:49:00 - [1145] the customer is always right?
Xa Fel	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:50:00 - [1146] Originally by: Republica Winder Originally by: Mehrdad Kor-Azor Originally by: Mordrake Edited by: Mordrake on 24/06/2011 02:45:30 Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items? Follow up: How do you define a Vanity item? The only question(s) that matter. Exactly. THIS MUST BE ANSWERED. BTW, there has yet to be ANY MMO that opened cash shops that stopped at vanity items only. Not one. Answers. Now.
Kaltor e'Daw	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:50:00 - [1147] Originally by: Harrigan VonStudly Originally by: Myra2007 Originally by: CCP Soundwave I would like virtual goods sales in EVE. In fact, IÆd like to sell a lot more than vanity items. CCP Soundwave (lead game designer) Where is this quoted from? Source please Perhaps you should read the thread? Or at least the bit about LEAKED NEWSLETTER?
Mehrdad Kor-Azor Amarr Iure Divino	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:50:00 - [1148] Originally by: SailorBacon Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items? For the love of Christ Manifest, if you can't answer the big yellow question, at least say so openly so I don't have to keep refreshing the page. Originally by: Klingon Admiral "Creation is so precious, and greed so destructive." EVE Online: Tyrannis Teaser Summer 2010
Lelob	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:50:00 - [1149] Originally by: Vilgan Mazran I'm kind of sad about the whole thing, because I think CCP has made a LOT of great attitude adjustments since the summer of rage. While the amount of resources dedicated to Incursions sucked, the amount accomplished with those resources was decent. Team BFF and Team Gridlock have been doing awesome things. There have been a lot of cool devblogs. Unfortunately, I think a lot of the good changes visible in CCP (at least to the perception of players) will be forgotten in the events of the past 2 weeks. So, a few quick summaries/thoughts: Stuff players are angry about that they should be angry about: 1) Captain's Quarters. It looks terrible, performance is GOD AWFUL, and it just doesn't seem to add anything to the game. If this was a quick side project that 2-3 devs threw together, sure but a year ago we were told nothing could be done because everyone was working on incarna. The fact that ALL those resources were spent on producing such a terrible looking feature is extremely anger inducing. If CQ performance is such crap, what will happen when we try to do this in stations? 2) 99$ for licensing was nonsense and a big F U to the customers. Nonsense about services that only accept donations in order to stay afloat needing to pay $99 was especially aggravating. 3) NeX prices are ridiculous and the selection is terrible. How many resources were put toward this again? 4) The last "good" expansion was over 2 years ago. Since then we have suffered through dominion and tyrannis. Incursions was a decent if very tiny expansion. If expansions were more often like apocrypha I think sub count would be MUCH higher and rage would be MUCH lower. Things players are upset about that (imo) is just spillover from other things: 1) The CCP newsletter. Pretty terrible timing for it to come out, but it isn't the end of the world. Lots of rage at CCP Soundwave, but his arguments made sense from a business perspective. I think most of the rage here is more the timing/rage at Incarna. 2) Microtransactions in general. Done right, not the end of the world. Altho, some doubt about CCP doing them right given recent revelations (like the current prices) What are things CCP could to do make things better: 1) FOCUS A LOT OF ATTENTION ON EVE FOR 6 MONTHS. Make another expansion like apocrypha. Release new T4 battleships. T3 frigates. Add a lot of cool unbottable content to 0.0. Balance stuff. Iterate on some cool features that people like (faction warfare/w-space). Ignore stuff that nobody really likes (PI). Right now, Dust might make money and WoD might make money (altho not if the engine is as terrible as Incarna). Eve DOES make money and a great expansion could easily multiply those subs in a great way. 2) Check with the CSM more often. Like the prices for the MT shop - nobody with any sense of the playerbase would have thought those prices were appropriate. We all play other games, we know what a typical MT model looks like and those prices weren't it. I can unlock a completely new character in another popular game for $3 and yet a monocle in eve costs $61? Seriously? Mainly, just focus on spaceships for a while. Yes, you are excited about expanding the eve universe as a whole. But we don't play Eve because we can build stuff on a planet and walk around in our hangar and whatever other gizmos get added. We play eve because internet spaceships are really cool. Stop focus on meaningless side crap for a while and put some real energy into the heart of the game again. Team BFF and Team Gridlock are great, but where are the other 4-5 teams that should be helping make spaceships awesome? Make it happen and all will be forgiven in time (imo) but continue on the current path of meaningless crap that is poorly implemented and more and more will find their final straw. Thank you for this wonderful post.
Planetary Genocide Gallente White Sail Anarchists	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:50:00 - [1150] Originally by: CCP Pann Edited by: CCP Pann on 24/06/2011 00:50:29 As I see it, the chief complaint is regarding the high cost of goods in the Noble Market. Second, many people are unhappy about the CaptainÆs Quarters. Third, there are some performance issues with Incarna. I would appreciate it if you would confirm my observations or tell me what IÆm missing, but I do ask that you do it in a productive way. As requested, I'll let you know that you see it wrong in a productive way. While the Noble Exchange's ridiculous prices are, well, ridiculous, it's not as big of a problem because, as they are vanity items, we can ignore them. Whether you lower the prices or not is really up to you, they have no impact on how I play the game and thus can be addressed at a later date, hopefully after the bugfixes and broken things like FW and hybrids. Captain's Quarters: I think the unhappiness regarding CQ is threefold: First, the aforementioned performance issues, which should be addressed ASAP as otherwise, the game becomes unplayable. Second, is the lack of content in it. I personally understand where you're going with this, as it's a base on which to start building for actual multiplayer content that involves Incarna. But the third one is the fact that CQ is forced upon players, which in my opinion is extremely misguided. I don't know if it's the guys in accounting or marketing saying that they have to see it and they will love it, but there is no reason, in-character or otherwise, why we absolutely have to uncouple from our pod every time we dock. But, as stated so many times in the rest of this thread, the real complaint we have is regarding the leaked "Fearless" newsletter that clearly shows how the company no longer seems interested in keeping their promises to us, the award-winning EVE Community that also happen to be your customers. We were told that microtransactions were vanity items only, yet suddenly we have the Lead Game Designer (among others) saying that they want to spread microtransactions into space; with ships, ammunition, modules, faction standings, and other decidedly non-vanity items. Our complaint (in this instance) is that CCP seems to be suffering a disconnect from reality; the fact that promises are, to CCP, as easily disposable as a couple of ISK is to the average capsuleer. And, to put it crudely, that **** will not fly. Thanks for hearing us out

Selene D'Celeste Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:50:00 - [1151] I am truly concerned as to whether anything CCP says tomorrow will be able to fix this. Some damage can't be undone, but I still hope that EVE can be saved. Will CCP have what it takes though, I guess that is the question. ______________________________
Aeril Thrace	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:50:00 - [1152] Please guys... I want an asnwer too, but reposting the same question over and over just gives them more posts to read, and delays their response. It is clear they don't have an answer at the moment. I think they are trying to parley with us, let's give them some time... Anyway, we can't ever ask if EVE is EVER expected to go with RMT or not. Plans change. I don't think it was a lie when they said there were no plans. There probably weren't. But plans change...
Republica Winder Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:50:00 - [1153] Originally by: Camdelma Quote: Can I please count on at least some of you to help bring the pitchforks and torches down a few notches? Not even a chance. This is exactly when the pitchforks and torches are needed. The community has said time and again that any microtransastion for anything but cosmetics isn't going to fly, and now we find out that CCP intends to implement it anyway? I've defended this game against people who said it was boring, I've argued that people were overreacting to CCP's seeming incompetence, hell, I've had multiple subscriptions for years. If any of the changes in that newsletter go through, I'm done, and I guarantee everyone I play with will go too. Allowing gameplay changing things to be bought for real money is an admission that the game is on it's last legs and you want to get as much money out of it before it dies. Don't do that. Exactly. The pitchforks and torches aren't enough. Boiling oil and tar and feathers are also in order.
Paul Kuznetsov	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:50:00 - [1154] Originally by: daddys helper Originally by: Mordrake Edited by: Mordrake on 24/06/2011 02:45:30 Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items? I hope the answer is "no", CCP. You made a promise to us, the community.
b1zz	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:50:00 - [1155] Edited by: b1zz on 24/06/2011 02:50:59 Originally by: KFenn Because buying ships with PLEX > ISK means that that ship was made at some point by a player, from within the sandbox. Buying ships directly means that poof, it appears out of nowhere. And how do we know at this point that ships won't be unique to NeX? These issues need to be addressed. And if they linked the AUR items into the player economy so players could earn real money from Eve - good or bad? Good I would think. CCP could take their cut.
Herakales	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:51:00 - [1156] HEY....NEW IDEA.......Starting July 1......none of us renew our subs.....just lock em up......30 days. NO ONE RENEWS....PERIOD. ALL of us....NC, DRF, empire players.....the works.....just lock it down. We all take the month off and see if CCP gets the message. Kinda would be fun actually. More beach time.
Thaya-rens Ostus	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:51:00 - [1157] Edited by: Thaya-rens Ostus on 24/06/2011 02:56:11 Originally by: Amira Kornova Originally by: Zangorus Originally by: Black Dranzer For the love of Christ Manifest if you can't answer the big yellow question, at least say so openly so I don't have to keep refreshing the page. I beg of you, CCP, please do not make me quit the game. I love this game, so much, just the way it is. I'd freaking donate to keep this game afloat. I don't care what it takes. But, please, just no freaking "substantive" microtransactions. KEEP THE EVE ECONOMY PLAYER-DRIVEN. NO MTs BEYOND "VANITY" ITEMS.
Mac Aoidh Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:51:00 - [1158] I've got about 30 minutes till my character can be sent off to biomass so I thought I'd chime in one last time. There's really nothing anyone from CCP could say to keep me as a customer. The newsletter that was leaked clearly shows CCP's true future vision as a company. I've been playing off and on since 2004 and I've seen lots of changes, some good, some bad. But those changes were always consistent with the company's core vision of creating an epic mmo that was a true sandbox. MT ruins everything! It will keep Dust from ever being anything more than novelty and will prevent WOD from ever being taken seriously. It will ruin EVE. This is a true NGE moment. In a way, you're doing me a favor CCP. I've got some serious health issues that need to be addressed. It's time I start focusing on how my real life avatar looks. It's been fun and thanks for all the pew pew! Mac out!
Lirael Dyrim Gallente In Bacon We Trust	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:51:00 - [1159] If you're going to make a devblog to respond to all our well deserved complaints I'd rather have you make a video. CCP has shown it's no stranger to cameras and to Youtube. We all saw the somewhat terrible attempts at humourous videos at Fanfest. Put Hilmar in front of a camera and have him read a statement, make a Powerpoint or something, but I want to look into your EYES and see whether you are telling the truth. Because honestly, your words mean pretty much nothing to me anymore.
Words Words Words	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:51:00 - [1160] Originally by: Paul Kuznetsov Originally by: daddys helper Originally by: Mordrake Edited by: Mordrake on 24/06/2011 02:45:30 Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items? I hope the answer is "no", CCP. You made a promise to us, the community.

Euphonus	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:51:00 - [1161] Originally by: Euphonus Originally by: Euphonus Somewhere in this threadnaught you said (you being Manifest), that there were NO plans for moving beyond vanity items with aurum. Do you know what vanity means? What is YOUR definition of vanity? How do you defend yourself and your job/company against the leaked, confirmed real newsletter that says the EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU JUST STATED?
Amira Kornova	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:51:00 - [1162] Originally by: daddys helper Originally by: Mordrake Edited by: Mordrake on 24/06/2011 02:45:30 Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?
Bloodpetal	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:52:00 - [1163] Edited by: Bloodpetal on 24/06/2011 02:53:08 In 2 hours and 15 minutes the CCP Pann thread has exploded to 38 pages. Half as much as news bulletin thread has gotten up to in 48 hours, really incredible. 1150 posts in 2 hours = 600 posts an hour = 10 posts a minute. Staying steady from the last time I checked the posting rate. That means by tomorrow morning, if things stay steady we'll have well over 5000 posts on this topic. Let's see EVE Community REPRESENT ____________________________________________________ Cost of the week of June 21st
Amarok Tonrar 5ER3NITY INC	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:52:00 - [1164] I actually feel bad for CCP Pann. Ever seen the movie, "Fun With Di** & Jane"? On topic though... First, I could care less about vanity items. Or even how much you sell em for. The prices are a complete joke but whatever. Second, I was really looking forward to Incarna. However, first it feels completely incomplete (I mean, seriously...what? 5 years of work only to have one racial CQ complete?) AND my computer is what most would consider general gamer/public level. I ran 2 to 3 clients simultaneously just fine pre-Incarna. Now I can barely run one while any char is docked. I understand the desire to create content pushing towards the future. But for the present, IMO, you're alienating a very large market. Third, but most importantly, focus on the internal newsletter. I'm a pretty passive person. I don't get angry at much, but even that caused me to nearly rage quit.
XIRUSPHERE Gallente The 8th Order Mean Coalition	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:52:00 - [1165] Originally by: Lirael Dyrim If you're going to make a devblog to respond to all our well deserved complaints I'd rather have you make a video. CCP has shown it's no stranger to cameras and to Youtube. We all saw the somewhat terrible attempts at humourous videos at Fanfest. Put Hilmar in front of a camera and have him read a statement, make a Powerpoint or something, but I want to look into your EYES and see whether you are telling the truth. Because honestly, your words mean pretty much nothing to me anymore. Q.F.T.
Daelorn	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:52:00 - [1166] Originally by: CCP Pann The newsletter was not fake. I guess this is how it feels when someone reads your diary, something you hadn't intended anyone else to see. Not to deflect the heat but to explain why what I'm about to say, I wasn't involved with writing it. The only reason I mention that is because I am not going to presume to know the minds of the people who did have comments in there. I am not going to throw people I love under the bus or to the lions or whatever. I can't/won't answer questions about what they said or why they said it. Our newsletters are written as a means to bring about discussion (that sometimes can even become heated debate) among our coworkers. That's really all I can say about it. I am not a game designer. I'm a mouthpiece. I'll admit it. By the time I get involved, the decisions have been made. Not making excuses for myself, just explaining. I'm late to the thread and haven't read much else. But first of all thank you for telling us the truth. Second thanks to the person who leaked it. If this is the direction that CCP actually heads in then I, along with what seems many others, will be leaving. My reason being that the CCP I knew when I began playing EVE back in early 2004 is not the same one. I know either way you guys won't be the same since launching EVE. Not to be overly dramatic, but it was like watching someone grow up. Except now you have the choice of doing something and ruining your life or keep going down the right road. Make the right choice. Greed is not good.
Ehronn Caldari Nutz N Boltz	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:52:00 - [1167] I would like virtual goods sales in EVE. In fact, IÆd like to sell a lot more than vanity items. PLEASE!!!! I want more than vanity items for sale and I want gambling! ----------------------- A Dysfunctional Playground
Iamien Democracy of Klingon Brothers	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:52:00 - [1168] Edited by: Iamien on 24/06/2011 02:53:36 Originally by: b1zz Originally by: Scoper's Alt Originally by: Fi1ippo Originally by: Iurnan Mileghere Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items? If they did, how would it be any different from current system: - Buy plex with real money - Buy ready made character with purchased plex proceeds - Buy awesome ship ? I must be missing something. I guess if they made the unique items only available to AURA customers...? Effort of players went into making that awesome ship and character, thus there is a limit to supply. AURA items come from nowhere, CCP makes them at will.
Republica Winder Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:53:00 - [1169] Originally by: Mac Aoidh I've got about 30 minutes till my character can be sent off to biomass so I thought I'd chime in one last time. There's really nothing anyone from CCP could say to keep me as a customer. The newsletter that was leaked clearly shows CCP's true future vision as a company. I've been playing off and on since 2004 and I've seen lots of changes, some good, some bad. But those changes were always consistent with the company's core vision of creating an epic mmo that was a true sandbox. MT ruins everything! It will keep Dust from ever being anything more than novelty and will prevent WOD from ever being taken seriously. It will ruin EVE. This is a true NGE moment. In a way, you're doing me a favor CCP. I've got some serious health issues that need to be addressed. It's time I start focusing on how my real life avatar looks. It's been fun and thanks for all the pew pew! Mac out! It shows that behind closed doors they have absolutely nothing but contempt for their customers. Which explains why we've suffered through two years of pathetic expansions, and walking in stations looks like "walking in jail cell".
Dayamb	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:53:00 - [1170] Edited by: Dayamb on 24/06/2011 02:53:16 anyone got a Mein Fur is mad spoof up yet?



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Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?

Follow up: How do you define a Vanity item?

I would like virtual goods sales in EVE. In fact, IÆd like to sell a lot more than vanity items.

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?

For the love of Christ Manifest, if you can't answer the big yellow question, at least say so openly so I don't have to keep refreshing the page.

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?

For the love of Christ Manifest if you can't answer the big yellow question, at least say so openly so I don't have to keep refreshing the page.

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?

I would like virtual goods sales in EVE. In fact, IÆd like to sell a lot more than vanity items.

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?

If they did, how would it be any different from current system:- Buy plex with real money- Buy ready made character with purchased plex proceeds- Buy awesome ship?

If they did, how would it be any different from current system:
- Buy plex with real money
- Buy ready made character with purchased plex proceeds
- Buy awesome ship

?