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Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.06.29 00:21:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Liberty Eternal on 29/06/2011 00:21:26
 Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
I had enough to buy the character out of my own isk, otherwise how would I be paying my investors back?! I mean you just have to love Block don't you really?
That's my point. You bought a character instead of honoring the terms of the bond.
So why don't you honor your finacial obligation?
No actually your point was to try and imply that I used investor isk to buy my character - read your post.
As for your second and different point that you just made - if it comes to it, I will be prepared to sell my character to meet compensation commitments.
Now, when are you going to honour your auditing commitment and obligation that you've now irrevocably roped yourself into?
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.06.29 00:29:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
if it comes to it, I will be prepared to sell my character to meet compensation commitments.
Then go ahead and sell it and meet your finacial obligations.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.06.29 00:34:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
if it comes to it, I will be prepared to sell my character to meet compensation commitments.
Then go ahead and sell it and meet your finacial obligations.
That's a decision for my investors to make.
Now go ahead and get that audit that you promised and didn't deliver.
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Strrog
Caldari
Zero Excavations
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Posted - 2011.06.29 00:38:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Strrog on 29/06/2011 00:40:00
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
if it comes to it, I will be prepared to sell my character to meet compensation commitments.
Then go ahead and sell it and meet your finacial obligations.
His obligation will be met when 15% interest is paid out plus principal of the first month of the bond, after that he is not going to use our money...
He can not do trading right now so he is quitting it for time being...
I do not believe he stated in the bond that HE WILL NEVER CANCEL IT.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.06.29 00:45:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Strrog
I do not believe he stated in the bond that HE WILL NEVER CANCEL IT.
No he said he was paying 15% over 3 months. That is his finacial obligation.
He broke two points in the terms of agreement, and instead of doing the right thing, which would be sell his character to meet his finacial obligations, he decided to take it from the bondholders.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.06.29 00:51:00 -
[66]
Block has been known to troll the same point for 5 pages or more. This discussion has been had already Block - save your energy for defending BSAC over the coming weeks.
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Elise DarkStar
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Posted - 2011.06.29 02:08:00 -
[67]
Except this time Block is bang on correct.
Instead of originally coming to your investors asking for a reasonable reprieve from your admittedly harsh self-imposed bond terms, you came out with a unilateral change in terms justified by your usual self-serving, incoherent, religio-political spew.
You thought that you could **** all over everyone else for the slightest faults in their business and they wouldn't come back at you in kind when your turn came around? How much of an entitled man-child are you?
I doubt anyone really cares that you closed the bond early; it's how you did it. You've spent a lot of effort getting up in other people's ****, now people are holding you to the same standard and you're crying like a baby about it.
You're truly a paragon of rationality and responsibility.
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Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.06.29 03:24:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Elise DarkStar
I doubt anyone really cares that you closed the bond early; it's how you did it.
I know that dear, but the masses of MD need entertaining, and so long as I have this wonderful "troll commie" button that I can press in order to make you turn up and prance about like a well-trained dancing monkey, then you will be a good performing monkey and dance for the MD masses until such time as I grow bored and decide to stop pulling your strings.
Which incidentally is very soon - there is after all a limit to how long even I can roleplay this blatantly false right-wing redneck forum troll to lure in low-IQ muppets like yourself.
Au revoir my precious princess - don't forget to keep being a special little snowflake who is always the last to figure out what everybody else realised a long time ago. Your pitiful need for socialism is so hilariously funny - what a shame that you were never able to appreciate what a great joke you are.
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Elise DarkStar
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Posted - 2011.06.29 03:32:00 -
[69]
ah shucks
you sure got me good
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Jerry Pepridge
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Posted - 2011.06.29 03:33:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Jerry Pepridge on 29/06/2011 03:33:15
Originally by: Elise DarkStar
ah shucks
you sure got me good
yes i sure did.
Edit: wrong toon
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Misty McGinnity Doesn't have an iPhone. |
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Elise DarkStar
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Posted - 2011.06.29 04:53:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Jerry Pepridge
Edited by: Jerry Pepridge on 29/06/2011 03:33:15
Originally by: Elise DarkStar
ah shucks
you sure got me good
yes i sure did.
Edit: wrong toon
Gadzooks. It was really you all along behind the curtain. Blast you, puppet master. Next time I will defeat you, this I swear!
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Yukon Kornelius
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Posted - 2011.06.29 05:53:00 -
[72]
Epic lulz here.
May I join in the abasement of LE by flinging reindeer poop on him?
Yes!
THWACK-PLOP!
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.06.29 06:52:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 29/06/2011 06:53:03
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Strrog
I do not believe he stated in the bond that HE WILL NEVER CANCEL IT.
No he said he was paying 15% over 3 months. That is his finacial obligation.
No, he was paying 15% each month for 3 months. Basically 3 separate thranches.
Since most bonds are both callable and puttable, he could just have closed the investment after delivering the first / second month plus interest. Investors would have understood the situation, even if he did not add the clause to let him close early (he's hardly the first doing that).
What he did wrong is the approach to the whole matter but then, could you call yourself totally out from having done any PR mistake in the past? I don't think there's anyone who hasn't, beginning with me.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Florestan Bronstein
draketrain
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Posted - 2011.06.29 07:11:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
No, he was paying 15% each month for 3 months. Basically 3 separate thranches.
Since most bonds are both callable and puttable, he could just have closed the investment after delivering the first / second month plus interest. Investors would have understood the situation, even if he did not add the clause to let him close early (he's hardly the first doing that).
What he did wrong is the approach to the whole matter but then, could you call yourself totally out from having done any PR mistake in the past? I don't think there's anyone who hasn't, beginning with me.
What he should have done is refund his investors the excess interest he had promised to pay over these three months (that they will now lose out upon by investing in other offerings/bonds).
Just calculate the present value of the bonds (making a sane assumption about the market interest rate) and buy them back for that amount.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.06.29 07:53:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 29/06/2011 07:53:12
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
No, he was paying 15% each month for 3 months. Basically 3 separate thranches.
Since most bonds are both callable and puttable, he could just have closed the investment after delivering the first / second month plus interest. Investors would have understood the situation, even if he did not add the clause to let him close early (he's hardly the first doing that).
What he did wrong is the approach to the whole matter but then, could you call yourself totally out from having done any PR mistake in the past? I don't think there's anyone who hasn't, beginning with me.
What he should have done is refund his investors the excess interest he had promised to pay over these three months (that they will now lose out upon by investing in other offerings/bonds).
Just calculate the present value of the bonds (making a sane assumption about the market interest rate) and buy them back for that amount.
He bought back the bonds at the monthly coupon. There were no discount or markup statements in the prospectus about this that I recall of.
Actually, if this was RL and he'd repurchased bonds from the secondary market, he's have got them back with a 3-5% discount over their face value, since bonds tend to float down in the first months (here at least).
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2011.06.29 12:15:00 -
[76]
So you screwed your investors (would probably be all good if you didn't buy the toon first).
You now join the club where you lose the right to criticize other offerings! Welcome.
You can comment/criticize but people won't listen.
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Varo Jan
Caravanserai Consulting
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Posted - 2011.06.29 12:45:00 -
[77]
Originally by: cosmoray
So you screwed your investors (would probably be all good if you didn't buy the toon first).
You now join the club where you lose the right to criticize other offerings! Welcome.
You can comment/criticize but people won't listen.
No, you screwed your investors when you failed. Even worse, you bored us senseless for two years +
Liberty made an error of judgement and was rightly criticised for it. He recanted and did the right thing.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.06.29 12:59:00 -
[78]
Originally by: cosmoray
So you screwed your investors (would probably be all good if you didn't buy the toon first).
You now join the club where you lose the right to criticize other offerings! Welcome.
You can comment/criticize but people won't listen.
LE failed a bond. It was not even a real default (he just worked hard to put himself under the worst light possible).
You engaged into a scam. It was not even brilliant or interesting, it went out like a lazy, summer, swollen, wet fart.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Mara Villoso
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Posted - 2011.06.29 13:39:00 -
[79]
Elise, I'm trying to figure out which previous scammer you're an alt of. Help me out here. |
Elise DarkStar
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Posted - 2011.06.29 14:21:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Mara Villoso
Elise, I'm trying to figure out which previous scammer you're an alt of. Help me out here.
I wish, then I'd at least be cool.
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Tutskii
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Posted - 2011.06.29 14:33:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Tutskii on 29/06/2011 14:37:02
Liberty didn't scam anyone, he burned out and ended a bond early.
Investors were repaid and compensation was offered to whoever wanted it.
His first statement was a bit rash, but his final actions should be unobjectable by anyone.
Now, that he in himself is not perfect does not mean that his statements regarding investments and proper courses of action are invalid. Comparing him with a scammer is a bit harsh because, other than losing a bit of his rep for being over confident, nobody is out anything other than himself, at this point.
Its ridiculous to suggest then that he is the same as Cosmo (who actively set to scam if you believe him, or is a huge failure if you don't, and stole as much as he could), Brock (who unrepentedly stole however much and makes being a random scammer his badge of honor) etcetera.
It also doesn't justify the breaking of commitments other parties have made which have nothing to do with him to begin with (like Block, who promised some transparency for the people who have money invested in him months ago).
I know some people would love to put Liberty in the mediocre scammers club, but he didn't actually steal anything from anyone and his only fault is perhaps, being too ambitious with his interest promises.
Doesn't change that unlike the robber baron club he is verifiably capable of making money, or that (most important of all), he did the right thing in the end.
My two cents on this.
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2011.06.29 15:37:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Varo Jan
Even worse, you bored us senseless for two years +
HAHAHAH!  Lmao, that hurt. Gotta love MD after all.
With regards to LE, give it a break boys, he already said 5 times that he failed the bond. You cannot point to any investors on this thread complaining about the outcome, we have here only outsiders who should have better things to occupy themselves with.
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"Signatures" trade chatroom / Universal Railways |
RAW23
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Posted - 2011.06.29 18:29:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Mara Villoso
Elise, I'm trying to figure out which previous scammer you're an alt of. Help me out here.
Elise isn't the alt of a scammer. She's actually pretty much the opposite: the alt of someone who put a lot of time and effort into trying to make MD a better place but whose soul was consumed in the process. Elise is the undead shell of that person, the disillusioned remains of a helpful, hardworking person who gave too much and saw too little good come of it. Now this lich-like creature lives in the shadows feasting on stockpiles of Technetium and occasionally sallying forth into the painful light to throw curses upon those who sucked her dry.
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Tom Hagen
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Posted - 2011.06.29 20:01:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
No, he was paying 15% each month for 3 months. Basically 3 separate thranches.
Since most bonds are both callable and puttable, he could just have closed the investment after delivering the first / second month plus interest. Investors would have understood the situation, even if he did not add the clause to let him close early (he's hardly the first doing that).
What he did wrong is the approach to the whole matter but then, could you call yourself totally out from having done any PR mistake in the past? I don't think there's anyone who hasn't, beginning with me.
Hmm. Long post eaten up by forum monsters. 
TL;DR version:
LE decided to close bond early, contacted creditors to create an accord. Creditors accepted suggested terms of accord(i.e. no further compensation). Conclusion: LE should be considered honorable.
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Elise DarkStar
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Posted - 2011.06.29 20:19:00 -
[85]
Originally by: RAW23
Elise isn't the alt of a scammer. She's actually pretty much the opposite: the alt of someone who put a lot of time and effort into trying to make MD a better place but whose soul was consumed in the process. Elise is the undead shell of that person, the disillusioned remains of a helpful, hardworking person who gave too much and saw too little good come of it.
I am so appreciative of the dramatic interpretation and colorful presentation that I hesitate to comment here.
I originally engaged the MD "community" for purely selfish reasons. I work in fundamental social theory, and MD at the time was a cornucopia of social mechanisms that easy to isolate conceptually and moving at hyper-speeds. Although I engaged productively to test some ideas and attempt to move the discourse in certain directions, I also often engaged simply to call out people for their bull****, which is a large and inescapable part of what I consider to be my character and nature. My one regret is that I played along with a system that I knew was fundamentally and irreversibly broken, but I console myself that the substantial insights gained were worth my own complicity with institutionalized bull****.
The difference between then and now is that I no longer feel the need to engage productively, and will only occasionally have the perfect storm of time, inclination, and monstrous bull**** that will encourage me to engage. Furthermore, now that I no longer have any interest besides mild amusement in the occasional knocking-over of bull**** castles, I can use extremely aggressive argumentation to expedite the bull**** removal and keep myself amused with an overboard style of writing in the process.
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Mara Villoso
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Posted - 2011.06.29 20:19:00 -
[86]
Originally by: RAW23
Ooooohhhh. I get it now. I thought she sounded familiar. |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.06.30 00:05:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
No, he was paying 15% each month for 3 months. Basically 3 separate thranches.
Since most bonds are both callable ...
Why are you distorting the facts to defend this thief? Is it because of conflict of interest? You really should stay out of this since you were the one who performed the audit.
Terms were very simple; 15% monthly for 3 months, only one character, and the bond was not callable.
He broke the terms and decided to purchase a character instead of honoring his financial obligation.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.06.30 00:12:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Liberty Eternal on 30/06/2011 00:12:12
Originally by: Block Ukx
Why are you distorting the facts to defend this thief? Is it because of conflict of interest? You really should stay out of this since you were the one who performed the audit.
Terms were very simple; 15% monthly for 3 months, only one character, and the bond was not callable.
He broke the terms and decided to purchase a character instead of honoring his financial obligation.
Hey numnuts, check out post one on this thread
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
Compensation
This however does leave 2 months of interest obligations unpaid. Any investor who wishes to claim that 2 months interest because they feel there was a breach of contract, or they lost out on another investment etc, please contact me by evemail and we will work out some kind of compensation payment.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2011.06.30 00:21:00 -
[89]
You breach the contract, you pay. It has nothing to do with what investors feel. Why should bondholders beg you for what is theirs? Does that makes you feel better?
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.06.30 00:31:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Block Ukx
You breach the contract, you pay. It has nothing to do with what investors feel. Why should bondholders beg you for what is theirs? Does that makes you feel better?
U mad?
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