EVE Search - Examples of pay2 win and why we dont want it so people understand

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Examples of pay2 win and why we dont want it so people understand

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Reloadin	Posted - 2011.06.28 23:17:00 - [31] Edited by: Reloadin on 28/06/2011 23:17:39 Buying 100m sp character. Selling plex to buy officer fitted ship. Paying alliance to give me protection. Hiring mercs to fight my wars. I win.
vasuul	Posted - 2011.06.28 23:22:00 - [32] Edited by: vasuul on 28/06/2011 23:25:59 Originally by: Reloadin Edited by: Reloadin on 28/06/2011 23:17:39 Buying 100m sp character. Selling plex to buy officer fitted ship. Paying alliance to give me protection. Hiring mercs to fight my wars. I win. funny but still doesn't break the game mechanic so not pay2win now If you could hire concord as personal bodyguards that would be pay2win
Snake Scofield	Posted - 2011.06.28 23:25:00 - [33] Originally by: vasuul Originally by: Reloadin Edited by: Reloadin on 28/06/2011 23:17:39 Buying 100m sp character. Selling plex to buy officer fitted ship. Paying alliance to give me protection. Hiring mercs to fight my wars. I win. funny but still doesn't break the game mechanic so not pay2win Yeah, god forbid someone buys a remap with plex or something. They'd be spaceship gods within weeks.
Josefine Etrange Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.28 23:28:00 - [34] Edited by: Josefine Etrange on 28/06/2011 23:29:28 Originally by: Tugrath Akers How much aurum for that 5000 GM mega death-ray of face melting? "And the CCP micro-transactions thing? Like I said, until it impacts gameplay, it's just not worth ranting about. Yeah, I know; I'm gonna get myself in trouble with that response. But look at it like this, if CCP follows their current pricing plan, buying a ship will cost you billions of actual dollars." - Woody from GU Comics Why a forum in the year 2011 still has no automatic double post merge which can be done even with javascript mostly is beyond my understanding.
kannilaw	Posted - 2011.06.28 23:36:00 - [35] Originally by: Josefine Etrange Edited by: Josefine Etrange on 28/06/2011 23:29:28 Originally by: Tugrath Akers How much aurum for that 5000 GM mega death-ray of face melting? "And the CCP micro-transactions thing? Like I said, until it impacts gameplay, it's just not worth ranting about. Yeah, I know; I'm gonna get myself in trouble with that response. But look at it like this, if CCP follows their current pricing plan, buying a ship will cost you billions of actual dollars." - Woody from GU Comics No one really ranting here its been civil from what I'm reading
Gwenywell Shumuku	Posted - 2011.06.28 23:47:00 - [36] Edited by: Gwenywell Shumuku on 28/06/2011 23:48:18 Originally by: General Windypops Who is this 'we' that you are talking about who don't want pay to win? I think it's a brilliant idea that people can pay for a little boost or two. I actually think it's pretty reasonable that someone like me, who has a pretty high powered job with long hours, should be able to relax and enjoy the game in exactly the same way that some lazy arsed student who lives with mummy and dady can. To ask the question another way, is it fair that I should be penalised just for R/L success? Don't you get rewarded enough in RL for what you do in RL yes? (if no, you should stop now). There is NO REASON why you should get rewarded in EVE for your RL-achievements, understand? Or do you want to get rewarded in chess too? How about you play the game as its meant to be played, and not buy your way in for a cheap win. (yea yea i know its not completely true in EVE with multiple accounts + plex, but both increase the interaction in EVE and make the game better for everyone, the 10%dmgboost does not, only for the buyer).
Nerodon Gallente Incapsulated Reality	Posted - 2011.06.29 00:23:00 - [37] Edited by: Nerodon on 29/06/2011 00:26:42 The problem's not with MT itself, what people disagree with are preposterous uses for Aurum. If the PLEX system we have now gives the ability to get more ISK but using RL money, then what's possible with this ISK limits you into doing things that ANY player can do, it's just now within reach more easily. If CCP were to make new items/features involving Aurum, they should be things that ANYONE could acquire using ISK, and they will be, because everyone has the power to buy PLEX from other players. So you must consider, that without a doubt, people could get the SAME bonuses, the SAME advantages without ever forking out real money. That's because other players that want ISK will buy those PLEX and sell them. Of course, this means the demand for PLEX will increase because people can get more things than just game time. That increased demand will make the price of PLEX rise which will in turn attract more people into buying them for RL money and selling them. This is what CCP wants to do... Increase PLEX sales by adding more uses for PLEX than just game time. Vanity is of course the first and most obvious step, it's easy, it creates a lot of demand and won't affect the game. Awesome! Next step, anything else we can add? It's a wee bit dangerous as touching gameplay features may cause balancing issues, if they don't cost much, they'll be easy to acquire with ISK but also more tempting to buy with RL money... So what should we be able to get from Aurum? And what shouldn't we get? Well it's quite simple, think of any feature you can add that would generate items. LP Store items, faction loot from rats etc. Now, are these items acceptable in terms of balance, what would happen if they dropped more of were easier to get. What advantage do those items bring to the table, how much ISK is someone willing to pay for them? Well, any item you can get will cost something, now those who own these items got them either by being lucky, or through perseverance, or even by just being rich in RL(With PLEX) or in-game with ISK. These items have to be of a reasonable power depending on rarity/price that would not affect combat too much... Overpowered (But I mean seriously overpowered) items would simply break the game, so they would never be introduced. Now think of an Aurum module similar to what we find in LP stores or NPC drops, you can make them as BPCs so that they still stir up the normal market, but these items, depending on their price, which mimic the rarity of normal in-game counterparts would have similar boosts. This way, these items would be obtainable through with ISK at the same prices you would acquire the same or similar powered module in Jita from a player. But now, instead of spawning by chance or by farming LP, they are obtained by stimulation of the PLEX market, increasing revenue for CCP. An excellent strategy when you look at it logically this way. So don't think of MT as MAGIC BUTTON THAT MAKES YOU WIN! Because it won't be, and should never be, as much as any other things you can obtain in Eve are. And also, if done right, it'll be seamless and all gameplay additions would be transparent to players who don't ever plan to buy PLEX for them, they'll just use ISK and spark more demand for PLEX that others who do want to pay will buy with their RL money. I do say they should be new items in order to preserve the markets of the items currently in game. But in the end, they don't even need to add items/ships, I'm quite certain that vanity only at reasonable prices will generate enough demand for PLEX for a long time to come! Just finish Incarna first and the popularity will explode.
vasuul	Posted - 2011.06.29 01:10:00 - [38] this may be a little off topic here but when it comes to AUR I don't know cause i have not bought any of it, maybe someone who has can answer Can left over AURIUM be converted back to ISK, or does the left over just sit till you want to buy something else off the NEX ?
Wvarian Famine Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.29 01:25:00 - [39] While I do not agree with pilots being able to speed train their sp, there is a point I do agree with. A pilot has an account that has had a few breaks in flight time, due to this the pilot is at about half the expected sp. For example a 2005 pilot with under 50m sp, what would be the harm in allowing that pilot to "buy" the sp needed to bring him up to a more appropriate sp level to his age. I am not saying allow a new pilot to obtain 30m sp in his first year, but allow some of the older pilots to catch up with their peers. This is not game breaking, this is not an instant I-WIN button. Cap the sp gain to the limit of what would be achieveable had they been training the entire time, still limit it to one pilot per account to avoid the ubers from smacking 100m sp on their jita alt they made when they moved out to null-sec. Just an idea You may continue ranting now. If you can't fit it properly, insure it fully, and replace it promptly...DON'T UNDOCK IT NUMBNUTS! The Crew
vasuul	Posted - 2011.06.29 02:03:00 - [40] Originally by: Wvarian While I do not agree with pilots being able to speed train their sp, there is a point I do agree with. A pilot has an account that has had a few breaks in flight time, due to this the pilot is at about half the expected sp. For example a 2005 pilot with under 50m sp, what would be the harm in allowing that pilot to "buy" the sp needed to bring him up to a more appropriate sp level to his age. I am not saying allow a new pilot to obtain 30m sp in his first year, but allow some of the older pilots to catch up with their peers. This is not game breaking, this is not an instant I-WIN button. Cap the sp gain to the limit of what would be achieveable had they been training the entire time, still limit it to one pilot per account to avoid the ubers from smacking 100m sp on their jita alt they made when they moved out to null-sec. Just an idea You may continue ranting now. Why should you be rewarded for not playing ? I remember something called ghost training of course a lot of you wont but here is how it used to work you got like 1 day till your account will expire, you have this long 34day skill so you start it then let your account expire for a month. Under the old game mechanic that skill would continue to train until completed. regardless if your subscription was active CCP thus did a Re balance and accounts no longer train while in stasis that's also when added a skill Que before that if you were train a skill that had 2 hrs left you either stayed up that extra two hours or started a different skill and finished the last two hours when you got on next There is no instant gratification in EVE and never Should be There is nothing wrong with the skill set up the way it is. you want something to complain about go back to the days you had to train learning skills to get anywhere. I been playing since 2007 some have been here a lot longer We all have had to pay our dues and climb the mountain why should they put in an elevator for you ?????????? you want more sp cause you haven't played fine buy someones old toon I am sure they will enjoy the ISK In fact that's how a lot of people make their isk is by making characters for people who don't have the time or inclination to train them for themselves That is all I am going to say on this skill point for pay BS subject
Falbala Gallente Ishtar's Destiny	Posted - 2011.06.29 04:21:00 - [41] Perfect World has a cash shop item that lets you absorb the damage done by others. But it's not those who give the $$ who get them, it's hardcore players who buy the cash shop coins for money (they have plenty) then buy the items that makes them hard to kill. In the end, the hardcore player always win, P2W or not.
Snake Scofield	Posted - 2011.06.29 04:26:00 - [42] Just out of curiosity. How many other subscription MMO's offer a way to pay with in game currency?
Rolix FallenOne	Posted - 2011.06.29 04:54:00 - [43] Really, this is nonsense. This is subscription based game, every month every user extends their game time, it doesnt matter if you bought PLEX with isk or GTC with your own money, because the PLEX was bought by someone anyway. Has everyone forgotten that? How come a subscription based game, implements items which is possible to get only with RL money? Everyone says, ohh its vanity, not gameplay affecting, but actually it is affecting how customers look at the game. I moved to EVE because there wasn't such a bull**, like WOW is trying to do. But if this shop thing goes even further, there is and will be MMO's which doesnt insult their SUBSCRIPTION based players with such a bull**. And every subscription based MMO, which tries to adapt free to play game model will see their downfall, thats how i feel.
Maman Brigitte Licentia Ex Vereor Intergalactic Exports Group	Posted - 2011.06.29 05:00:00 - [44] Originally by: Jim Hakomairos If you buy PLEX for 30' 000 $, you've already won (probably not rly ), but if you buy for 5 million $ you won. For sure. If you buy 5 million dollars worth of PLEX you'd either get your isk as a trickle or flood the market, trampling the value of EVE game time to the point where everyone in the game plays for free for years. Conversely, the Titan fleet you bought with your isk will be bubbled and slaughtered within the week. So I'd say that someone pumping 5 million dollars of PLEX into the system would actually make everyone win. Except maybe himself.
RougeOperator	Posted - 2011.06.29 05:09:00 - [45] Micro trans only made sense if EvE online was losing money. But its very much the opposite. EvE online is making enough money that CCP felt they could field developing two other games. EvE is a money maker under its sub based plan. No reason for MT other then pure greed. This is now just them blatantly sticking it to the loyal player base and trying to bilk them for more money. This is pure abuse of the players. If the sub model wasn't profitable I might understand the move to add MT. But This is complete crap on ever level. Also plex is already paid for time. It is not free and can never count as free and there is no such thing as playing for free. Money changed hands at some point.
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.06.29 05:16:00 - [46] Originally by: vasuul There is no instant gratification in EVE and never Should be So buying a high SP pilot from the bazaar isn't "instant gratification"? Or buying faction fitted faction ships with plex money isn't "instant gratification"? It's a passed station. I just think the MT shop shouldn't do things that are beyond the possibilities of the current plex system. But there's a lot of room between nothing/just vanity and buying exclusive 1000000000 dps ships.
Richard Koslinsky	Posted - 2011.06.29 05:37:00 - [47] Originally by: Amanda Maricadie err it worked for other games also thats not FPS....if u doubt go look up "Nexon" they have games from FPS to MMORPG i even think they have a new RTS game out and they are all F2P and they all have their own version of MT And in which one of those games do you get penalized for losing a fight/battle like you do in EVE where territory can have 10's of billions of ISK in assets in a single system which you will see change hands when you lose the fight in defending it? And in that case, you get weaker while your enemies get stronger? No, in those games, you lost 5 minutes of time because your respawn point is that far away, or there is a timer... All your gear is still nice a safe, none of it gets looted by the victors, thus nothing of value changes.
Richard Koslinsky	Posted - 2011.06.29 05:43:00 - [48] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Originally by: vasuul There is no instant gratification in EVE and never Should be So buying a high SP pilot from the bazaar isn't "instant gratification"? Or buying faction fitted faction ships with plex money isn't "instant gratification"? It's a passed station. I just think the MT shop shouldn't do things that are beyond the possibilities of the current plex system. But there's a lot of room between nothing/just vanity and buying exclusive 1000000000 dps ships. So you don't mind the inflation there will be on the PLEX market, and the destruction of the markets for the items that CCP sells because the supply suddenly became infinite, unlike now when someone still has to get the blueprint, building materials, build it, and move it to the market.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.06.29 05:52:00 - [49] Originally by: Jennifer Starling I just think the MT shop shouldn't do things that are beyond the possibilities of the current plex system. Then it would serve nu purpose since it wouldn't be able to give people stuff. ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP
Jim Hakomairos	Posted - 2011.06.29 06:55:00 - [50] OP dont write about things you don't understand.
Dark Reignz	Posted - 2011.06.29 07:12:00 - [51] wholy sweet mother of jesus You can spend x amount of RL cash, convert plex to isk and then buy charachters from the Bizzar or buy ships and faction fit it to fck and YOU SAY THIS IS NOT PAY WIN ?? Oh my lord, what planet did this alt come from ? Too many people have emo-raged into a state of utter delusion.
San Severina Minmatar	Posted - 2011.06.29 07:15:00 - [52] Originally by: Mr Epeen You were dropped on your head as a child, weren't you? Mr Epeen Post on your main or STFU, nobody is paying any attention to a CCP Alt/Forum Alt/Troll.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.06.29 07:16:00 - [53] Originally by: Dark Reignz You can spend x amount of RL cash, convert plex to isk and then buy charachters from the Bizzar or buy ships and faction fit it to fck and YOU SAY THIS IS NOT PAY WIN ?? Since it doesn't bypass any of the normal mechanics and only ever use the same things everyone already has access to, no, it isn't. ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP
Dorn Val	Posted - 2011.06.29 07:20:00 - [54] Originally by: kannilaw Originally by: Jennifer Starling SP for AUR isn't pay2win! ...but if you start a noob character and then are able to pay to max all his skills instantly!! yes that would be because that defeats the purpose of training and we would have 60 thousand titan/motherships roaming ...so buying a character with max skills off of the character bazaar defeats the purpose of training? Your logic is not sound. Personally I can't wait for all the griefer tears when some "newb" who's only been in the game for a few months OMGWTFBBQs someone cause they have all their support skills maxed out. Think you're about to gank a defenseless newb on that low sec gate? Think again...
Dark Reignz	Posted - 2011.06.29 07:23:00 - [55] I dont wanna buy a char off the Bazzar i wanna fckin respec the chars ive spent money on and nurtured myself and do that with nex items from NEX that allow this. I'm not asking to buy more SP but all you bitters are against this too. We need compromise here.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.06.29 07:23:00 - [56] Originally by: Dorn Val ...so buying a character with max skills off of the character bazaar defeats the purpose of training? No, because unlike SP-for-cash, it doesn't circumvents the supply/demand balance and time investment in creating a high-SP character. ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.06.29 07:31:00 - [57] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Dark Reignz You can spend x amount of RL cash, convert plex to isk and then buy charachters from the Bizzar or buy ships and faction fit it to fck and YOU SAY THIS IS NOT PAY WIN ?? Since it doesn't bypass any of the normal mechanics and only ever use the same things everyone already has access to, no, it isn't. A MT store also bypasses existing game mechanics and interferes with the market. Buy those shoes or a deadspace shield booster? A new skirt or a couple of new T2 cruisers? The question is if it's all that bad. Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Jennifer Starling I just think the MT shop shouldn't do things that are beyond the possibilities of the current plex system. Then it would serve nu purpose since it wouldn't be able to give people stuff. Depends if you look at if from the buyers or providers/sellers side.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.06.29 07:36:00 - [58] Originally by: Jennifer Starling The question is if it's all that bad. The answer is: yes. Quote: Depends if you look at if from the buyers or providers/sellers side. How so? If it doesn't do anything beyond what PLEX does, what purpose would it serve to the buyers, since it wouldn't actually give them any items ù why would they put cash in and not get anything for it? And if it doesn't give the buyers anything, what purpose will it serve to the provider, since the buyers probably won't use it? ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP
Seurimas	Posted - 2011.06.29 08:14:00 - [59] Quote: 1. can he buy a model 5000 GM mega death-ray of face melting, one shot one kill doom ,that not only kills you when it hits you but blows up every ship in your corp or alliance whether they are docked or not ? No he cant and never should be as this would be pay2win 2 ok how about a one and only : super invincible GM sanctioned concord modified TITAN of multifaction faction origins a ship so powerful it doesn't need guns cause it has ramming ability and rips through a carrier like paper no this would be pay2win 3 can he pay concord to look the other way while he empire gangs noobs or buy back his sec status when he pirates NO this would be pay2 win 4 ok how about buying my own system for only me and my corp that only we can access the star gates so we can care bear all day and make tons of isk with no interference No not only would this be pay 2 win it would get down right boring The problem I have with these is that they're so extravagant that they are obviously unreasonable; no one would include such a silly thing in the game nor would anyone (Hilmar included) suppose this to be a good idea for the game design. At the same time, there are alternative approaches which some misguided people (Hilmar, for example) may consider to be good. This could be anywhere from the pay-to-win boosters (as suggested/implied by the Quafe Zero present) to pay-to-win ammo, modules, or ships. If you've seen that slide presentation which has been circulating, you'd probably be able to imagine a world where we are unreasonable in our expectations and pay-to-win is good because of its numerous benefits; however, if you take a look at EvE in regards to these benefits, the model breaks down quickly. For example, one of the for-Pay-to-win points was that players enjoy beating the crap out of some incompetent pay-to-win user. They feel good about themselves because they are superior to this person in skill by such a margin as to destroy them without such benefits. This is all well and good. I've enjoyed this aspect in other pay-to-win games (mind you, some pay-to-win games that make even the extravagant model in the original post look plausible). However, would this be beneficial to EvE? Not really. We've already got that. You can blow the crap out of superior forces if you're savvy in the ways of internet spaceships. This happens a lot. It's satisfying already! Could we find the same enjoyment from a similar scenario with pay-to-win instead of superior forces? Possibly, but we also must observe that EvE weeds out the incompetents pretty fast. By the time pay-to-win would come into play, we'd be talking largely (though admittedly not entirely) of competent players employing them and lording them over other competent players who may not have disposable income. Another example of the benefits to pay-to-win is the increased income to CCP. Assuming the schema they use for pay-to-win works out by some quasi-bizarro series of events, this is fantastic for them. However, would this be beneficial to EvE? Still not. Their priorities are not us, by any observable metric. The money we are spending is being funneled into other titles, which largely do not involve EvE players (a FPS and another MMO). tl;dr We, as gamers, lost the war against MT overseas long, long ago. We can stand our ground here at pay-to-win, and we should. Governance is an issue which often ignored in video game communities, but we pay their wages to play the GAME, not for the sole purpose of paying.
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.06.29 08:19:00 - [60] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 29/06/2011 08:22:06 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Jennifer Starling The question is if it's all that bad. The answer is: yes. How is it? Originally by: Tippia Quote: Depends if you look at if from the buyers or providers/sellers side. How so? If it doesn't do anything beyond what PLEX does, what purpose would it serve to the buyers, since it wouldn't actually give them any items ù why would they put cash in and not get anything for it? And if it doesn't give the buyers anything, what purpose will it serve to the provider, since the buyers probably won't use it? Still depending on how you look at it. If you look at it as "I buy 50 plex, tomorrow I have a titan pilot and some ships" then SP for AUR doesn't allow anything very different. Or if you buy that ship for ISK or AUR. The difference are mostly in the details and underlying transactions, not so much in the end result from the buyers point of view.

Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.