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Kusanagi Kasuga
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Posted - 2011.07.11 13:41:00 -
[61]
When WoD and DUST bomb, then CCP will refocus on EVE.
You know what you have to do.
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Cashcow Golden Goose
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Posted - 2011.07.11 13:51:00 -
[62]
 Originally by: Kusanagi Kasuga
When WoD and DUST bomb, then CCP will refocus on EVE.
You know what you have to do.
You're adorable.
I rather imagine they will start work on World of Ponies. CCP would literally rather do anything that work on Eve.
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Aodha Khan
Minmatar
Deviance Cartel
Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2011.07.11 14:41:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Khamelean
Why are they expected? You pay a subscription for a service, the service is provided as Eve in it's current state.
Wrong! Eve and almost all MMORPG are games which are constantly evolving and improving. That's the original vision of CCP if you bothered to read.
Power is not something that is granted - it is something to be taken. |
Aodha Khan
Minmatar
Deviance Cartel
Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2011.07.11 14:44:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Kusanagi Kasuga
When WoD and DUST bomb, then CCP will refocus on EVE.
You know what you have to do.
CCP finances are tied into the success of those two games so if they fail badly then don't be too sure that CCP will still be around in it's current form.
Power is not something that is granted - it is something to be taken. |
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
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Posted - 2011.07.11 14:50:00 -
[65]
All i'm concerned with is that what resources are devoted will be towards steering players to new MT enviroments
and most importantly,
that UI improvments will cost isk/aurum/$
I'm still not over the (to me offensive) notion that things like the ship fitting numbers which were limmited by recent change will have thier numbers expandable for a cost (as per the Fearless memo)
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Blacksquirrel
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Posted - 2011.07.11 15:00:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Blacksquirrel on 11/07/2011 15:00:11
Originally by: Khamelean
Why are they expected? You pay a subscription for a service, the service is provided as Eve in it's current state. Yes development gets done to make Eve better, but that's not what your paying for, that's CCP spending it's profits on improving it's business. That's why there called free expansions, they ARE free. Subscriptions pay for the development that has already been done, not ongoing development. That's CCP spending it'd profits however it sees fit.
Boy this is wrong the MMO sub model is based off delayed development. No you do not pay money for just as is... You also pay money for extra content later down the line as well. Expansion (In most formulas) are bulk content, and thus the buy in price. But your money does go towards further development.
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Important Person
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Posted - 2011.07.11 15:04:00 -
[67]
I'm sorry.
All your money from subscriptions that was earmarked for development was spent on the emergency csm summit to deal with illiterate forumites who made a fuss over nothing and had to have the same statements reiterated for them.
Maybe next year.
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Khadann
Caldari
Sense of Serendipity
Echoes of Nowhere
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Posted - 2011.07.11 17:20:00 -
[68]
Come on, that's a classic in the videogame industry and others...
WOW subscribers are currently paying for the development of TITAN, the next gen mmo of Blizzard.
When you develop a game like SWTOR, which cost over 10 millions, you don't hire 20 new dev, you transfert most of existing devs from a project to another one and so on...
Once Dust released, a few dev will keep working on it. The rest of them will go work on .... WOD !
We have also to consider than one day, CCP will stop developing 2 eve expansions a year for free...
In some years, they will consider they have done enough development and that the game is complete enough to remain as it is and bring regular profits... they'll let it die basically.
Hya! |
Nerodon
Gallente
Incapsulated Reality
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Posted - 2011.07.11 18:50:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Blacksquirrel
Edited by: Blacksquirrel on 11/07/2011 15:00:11
Originally by: Khamelean
Why are they expected? You pay a subscription for a service, the service is provided as Eve in it's current state. Yes development gets done to make Eve better, but that's not what your paying for, that's CCP spending it's profits on improving it's business. That's why there called free expansions, they ARE free. Subscriptions pay for the development that has already been done, not ongoing development. That's CCP spending it'd profits however it sees fit.
Boy this is wrong the MMO sub model is based off delayed development. No you do not pay money for just as is... You also pay money for extra content later down the line as well. Expansion (In most formulas) are bulk content, and thus the buy in price. But your money does go towards further development.
So is that why WoW players pay 40$ for each expansion because it comes in bulk? And that all new players must buy all the expansions in order to access the new content?
Don't you come and tell me that WoW players pay subs to get access to future content, they don't, they buy the new content separately from their sub, the sub is just to be allowed to play the content they've already purchased.
Using the excuse that Blizzard charges for expansions because it releases more content in bulk is moronic. Eve's expansions are smaller because they happen every 6 months and not every 2 years.
Now stop talking out of your a**, Eve expansions are given as extra, the EULA states that you pay for access to the product as is, there is no entitlement to anything! Eve could be shut down tomorrow and there's nothing you could do about it because the company doesn't owe you anything.
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Blacksquirrel
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Posted - 2011.07.11 19:24:00 -
[70]
lol didnt you read the part on expansions...
Have you ever played any other MMO's? You still get content in between expansions. Expansions are just that a MASS of content. Usually stuff that has been in development for a a year or more. I can honestly say every large MMO i've played has had plenty of free stuff added (not just bug fixes).
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Nerodon
Gallente
Incapsulated Reality
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Posted - 2011.07.11 19:59:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Blacksquirrel
Edited by: Blacksquirrel on 11/07/2011 19:28:20
lol didnt you read the part on expansions...
Have you ever played any other MMO's? You still get content in between expansions. Expansions are just that a MASS of content. Usually stuff that has been in development for a a year or more. I can honestly say every large MMO i've played has had plenty of free stuff added (not just bug fixes). Which is expected by customers in MMO's is that there will be more development later on... Or else why you pay a sub fee greater than X amount of months knowing that nothing will change later?
MMO's work on delayed content... Hell nearly all of them state "We plan on adding such and such later" even before the game launches.
Okay, assuming you are correct on delayed content, that dosen't mean the players are entitled to it. The mentioning of delayed content development is only a marketing thing to convince you that you are making an investment instead of just paying blindly. Although in most case it is true that future development is on the horizon, their quality/frequency is not guaranteed, neither is percentage of the profits dedicated to that new content.
Every player pay in the hopes that improvements and upgrades come, the company has no real obligation to give them all of this but will do it in order to keep the subscribers happy. But in the end, the money gained from subscriptions is theirs and they can do anything they want with it.
If I play WoW, should I be angry that money has gone in the development of Diablo 3? Or before that, Starcraft 2? Why would I? Why should CCP be any different?
I can see why some people want CCP to focus only on Eve, but that's being unrealistic, but that dosen't mean they don't work at all on eve they still do, maybe its not as good as you'd want it to be, well that's possible and the quality of Eve may suffer and that's life.
In no way does CCP owe you more though, I wonder where anyone would get that idea. If the product loses your interest, you are welcomed to stop paying for it. It's CCP's job to keep the game improving in order to retain the customer base, not because they owe them anything, because they generate income when satisfied and kept subscribed for longer periods of time.
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Jaehawn
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Posted - 2011.07.11 20:34:00 -
[72]
CCP can do whatever they want with their money but we are also free to stop giving it too them. The only real answer is to stop giving them more money. They have already said they aren't concerned with the playerbases knee jerk reaction to Incarna. They are committed to WoD and Dust so you can keep playing and hoping they might throw you a bone once a year if you want. Long as the golden goose keeps laying eggs nothing changes, and if anyone makes a comment yeah I already cancelled still have time on my account and you cant have my stuff. Thats why that call it my stuff.
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Nerodon
Gallente
Incapsulated Reality
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Posted - 2011.07.11 20:42:00 -
[73]
Yes, we are free to stop paying for Eve and leave.
In the end, it's CCP's problem. If they want to keep their players they'll find a way to do so. If what they do isn't enough, well the consequences are their's to deal with.
Trust/betrayal, hope/disapointement
It's all sort of irrelevant, you play because you want to play, you stop playing because you no longer want to play.
Eve is still enjoyable? Yay!
Eve is no longer enjoyable? Boo!
If eve is to die, so be it, I'll be sad, but life goes on.
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Trainwreck McGee
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Posted - 2011.07.11 20:48:00 -
[74]
PI - for Dust
Incursions - probably took very little effort to implement this in comparison to all other new features
CQ - initial test for WOD
It obvious where CCP's focus is
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Blacksquirrel
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Posted - 2011.07.11 23:25:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Blacksquirrel on 11/07/2011 23:25:56
Originally by: Nerodon
Edited by: Nerodon on 11/07/2011 20:10:42
Originally by: Blacksquirrel
Edited by: Blacksquirrel on 11/07/2011 19:28:20
lol didnt you read the part on expansions...
Have you ever played any other MMO's? You still get content in between expansions. Expansions are just that a MASS of content. Usually stuff that has been in development for a a year or more. I can honestly say every large MMO i've played has had plenty of free stuff added (not just bug fixes). Which is expected by customers in MMO's is that there will be more development later on... Or else why you pay a sub fee greater than X amount of months knowing that nothing will change later?
MMO's work on delayed content... Hell nearly all of them state "We plan on adding such and such later" even before the game launches.
Okay, assuming you are correct on delayed content, that dosen't mean the players are entitled to it. The mentioning of delayed content development is only a marketing thing to convince you that you are making an investment instead of just paying blindly. Although in most case it is true that future development is on the horizon, their quality/frequency is not guaranteed, neither is percentage of the profits dedicated to that new content.
Every player pay in the hopes that improvements and upgrades come, the company has no real obligation to give them all of this but will do it in order to keep the subscribers happy. But in the end, the money gained from subscriptions is theirs and they can do anything they want with it.
If I play WoW, should I be angry that money has gone in the development of Diablo 3? Or before that, Starcraft 2? Why would I? Why should CCP be any different?
I can see why some people want CCP to focus only on Eve, but that's being unrealistic, every company needs to Grow, working only on Eve would be putting all your eggs in one basket. But in the end that dosen't mean they don't work at all on eve, they still do! Maybe the expansions are not as good as you'd want them to be, that's possible and the quality of Eve may suffer because of it. That's life.
In no way does CCP have any obligation to provide specific content of specific quality to you, I wonder where anyone would get that idea. If the product loses your interest, you are welcomed to stop paying for it. It's CCP's job to keep the game interesting in order to retain the customer base, not because they owe them anything, because they generate income when satisfied and kept subscribed for longer periods of time.
And to all those people who think CCP is using Eve as only a cash cow, you are correct! Eve IS a cashcow, the best one they got, the ONLY one they got... Why would they throw it away?? You'd have to be stupid to think they would.
WTF are you talking about?
Where did I once state in all of 3 sentences that i expect CCP to cater to my every need? Or expect 100% of my sub fee to going for new content? Clearly 100% doesnt go to that. In fact im pretty sure most followed a 33, 33, 33% model of profit, upkeep, and new content generation out of a sub fee.
Matter of fact in a another post I pointed out the absurdity of thinking ones money should only go towards one product line. So please point out to me where I express moral outrage at a company using money from one product to develop another?
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Jonathan Malcom
Gallente
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.07.12 00:05:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Jonathan Malcom on 12/07/2011 00:06:33
The lack of understanding displayed in this thread is astounding. I'll break it down for you Barney-style.
No one is upset that CCP is using funds from their flagship product to diversify their offerings. The problem is the proportion of funds being diverted, as evidenced by the last three expansions. (i.e. most)
Their flagship product is languishing from a distinct lack of resource allocation. Long-standing bugs, terrible interfaces, imbalanced ships et al are left at the bottom of the priority list while CCP develops features that, while hugely promising, are delivered in such a state that they add next to nothing to the experience.
In addition, they're charging us again to access some of this content. Content that our subscriptions paid to develop. Content that was prioritized as more integral to the success of the game than other content.
It's blatant financial mismanagement and resource misappropriation.
___________________
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.07.12 00:18:00 -
[77]
Hilmar took a crap all over us the player base.
Now hes waiting to see what do not not what we say.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.12 00:38:00 -
[78]
You are not paying for expansions.
You are not paying for the development of anything.
You are paying to play. Period.
You pay $14.95 to play ONE month of available content.
If CCP decides to blow that money on drugs and hookers that is now THEIR choice to make (unless you own shares). If they want to use that money to develop 10 other games, guess what? IT IS THEIR MONEY TO DO WHAT THEY WANT WITH IT.
CCP is not a bank. They are not taking your money to invest it for you.
Do you feel entitled to decide what McDonalds does with "your" $4 when you buy a Big Mac?
Sure, you can get ****ed if you don't like what CCP is spending its money on. But please understand already that you are NOT entitled to decide where that money is spent because once you give it to CCP it is no longer YOURS in any way, form, or shape. When you pay you've already received what you paid for: A one-month subscription. That's it.
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
jackaloped
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Posted - 2011.07.12 01:22:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Khamelean
Originally by: DECEPTIBROW
Agree with OP.
The last 3 expansions have added nothing to the game for me.
It's obvious that CCP are only interested in console shooters, second life rip offs, spacebooks, and mindless clickfests.
So your argument is based on the fact that CCP have released no content that interests you in Eve therefore they have spent no money working on eve?
To follow your logic.
Since they have released no content at all for Dust for WoD, they clearly have not been working on them either.
I can't say what his argument is based on but my argument is based on ccp telling us they are not working on eve gameplay. They explicitly said what percent of devs was going to incarnatransactions and fis.
True they didn't tell us how many are devoted to dust or wod but even looking at the devs that are supposed to be working on eve its clear they abandoned eve gameplay in favor of incarnatransactions.
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TrimethylChromiumdioxide
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Posted - 2011.07.12 02:02:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose
I bought a Zanussi washing machine, and now look, they came and uploaded new software in it so now it doesn't work! And other customers tell me that even when they do get theirs to work, they have to chant 'show me the money' 17 times before the voice recognition kicks in and turns it on. That is NOT an optional step, you have to do it every single time! And it has a decreased washing capacity! And they're using the money I spent on this lemon to develop cookers and fridges :(
Schlongjockies the lot of them :( Whatever next? Well as long as they don't make motorbikes like my favourite lawnmower manufacturer Honda I'm ok with funding their non-washing machine excesses.
Fixed.
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Jonathan Malcom
Gallente
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.07.12 02:14:00 -
[81]
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
You are not paying for expansions.
You are not paying for the development of anything.
You are paying to play. Period.
You pay $14.95 to play ONE month of available content.
If CCP decides to blow that money on drugs and hookers that is now THEIR choice to make (unless you own shares). If they want to use that money to develop 10 other games, guess what? IT IS THEIR MONEY TO DO WHAT THEY WANT WITH IT.
CCP is not a bank. They are not taking your money to invest it for you.
Do you feel entitled to decide what McDonalds does with "your" $4 when you buy a Big Mac?
Sure, you can get ****ed if you don't like what CCP is spending its money on. But please understand already that you are NOT entitled to decide where that money is spent because once you give it to CCP it is no longer YOURS in any way, form, or shape. When you pay you've already received what you paid for: A one-month subscription. That's it.
You're an idiot.
I'm going to be lazy and copy-paste my response from another thread.
Originally by: Jonathan Malcom
If CCP had historically charged for expansions, you would be correct. They don't. So you're not. The money I pay CCP is for access to the game. It also (as explicitly stated by CCP on several occasions) grants me access to the content of new expansions that they develop (using our subscription fees). So, yes, actually. I (or more accurately, we) pay for the development of these items.
So, once again we (collectively) are required to pay money to access content that was developed with our subscription fees. We're being double-billed, regardless of how you slice it.
This entire business is bad for the game. Not only because it limit access content to those not willing to pay extra, it also limits emergent gameplay by artificially magic-ing items into existence.
You're also an idiot because you unironically compare a subscription-model service to a retail establishment.
___________________
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.12 02:29:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Jonathan Malcom
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
You are not paying for expansions.
You are not paying for the development of anything.
You are paying to play. Period.
You pay $14.95 to play ONE month of available content.
If CCP decides to blow that money on drugs and hookers that is now THEIR choice to make (unless you own shares). If they want to use that money to develop 10 other games, guess what? IT IS THEIR MONEY TO DO WHAT THEY WANT WITH IT.
CCP is not a bank. They are not taking your money to invest it for you.
Do you feel entitled to decide what McDonalds does with "your" $4 when you buy a Big Mac?
Sure, you can get ****ed if you don't like what CCP is spending its money on. But please understand already that you are NOT entitled to decide where that money is spent because once you give it to CCP it is no longer YOURS in any way, form, or shape. When you pay you've already received what you paid for: A one-month subscription. That's it.
You're an idiot.
I'm going to be lazy and copy-paste my response from another thread.
Originally by: Jonathan Malcom
If CCP had historically charged for expansions, you would be correct. They don't. So you're not. The money I pay CCP is for access to the game. It also (as explicitly stated by CCP on several occasions) grants me access to the content of new expansions that they develop (using our subscription fees). So, yes, actually. I (or more accurately, we) pay for the development of these items.
So, once again we (collectively) are required to pay money to access content that was developed with our subscription fees. We're being double-billed, regardless of how you slice it.
This entire business is bad for the game. Not only because it limit access content to those not willing to pay extra, it also limits emergent gameplay by artificially magic-ing items into existence.
You're also an idiot because you unironically compare a subscription-model service to a retail establishment.
To be honest, my comment is so far beyond your comprehension that it really wasn't intended for you, as there simply is no hope of you ever understanding it. You keep it up with your theories of being double-billed and what-not. This just isn't something to be argued with you.
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Stella SGP
The Kimotoro Initiative
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Posted - 2011.07.12 02:46:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Stella SGP on 12/07/2011 02:50:09
BTW I've been using the same mobile company for the last 10 years. Now that they have 4G network, HOW DARE they charge me more money to use it! I PAID for its development with my subscription every month and now they are charging me even more to use it. OUTRAGEOUS!!! Also all that nonsense about nationwide coverage which I don't use! Why can't they use the money I PAID them to further improve services within my local area! Why waste MY money on things that I'm not going to use!
Rabble Rabble Rabble...
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Garreth Vlox
Minmatar
Obsidian Inc.
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Posted - 2011.07.12 03:05:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Malcheus
dudes, this is what healthy corporations do, stop worrying about it.
if you buy a big mac at the McDonalds, do you demand that the profit goes in development of the big mac?
no.
EVE is exactly the same, you buy a burger each month, and they spend it however they want, if you don't agree, don't pay.
you sir, are a ****ing idiot.
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Important Person
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Posted - 2011.07.12 03:21:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Ghoest
Hilmar took a crap all over us the player base.
Now hes waiting to see what do not not what we say.
Try breathing through your nose occasionally.
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jackaloped
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Posted - 2011.07.12 03:22:00 -
[86]
It almost seems like some people here are encouraging CCP to mothball eve gameplay.
I mean are most MMO companies so blunt that they are not going to work on and improve the gameplay for the players and only spend their time/money making new games and figuring out how to charge the playerbase more money in mt?
Incarnatransactions, wod, and Dust seems to account for well over 90% of the ccp resources.
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Digital Messiah
Oregami Ultd
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Posted - 2011.07.12 03:36:00 -
[87]
Hello again, I am the guy who was called a CCP alt for trying to tell you guys during the protests. You can't choose the flavor of ice cream they serve you. To all the complainers please be quiet and wait. Or go to another vendor. 
Quote:
"Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn"
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Misha M'Liena
Amarr
21st Eridani Lighthorse
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Posted - 2011.07.12 03:48:00 -
[88]
Well i have some bad new for ccp and its new game world of darkness.
http://reignofblood.net/ It's a vampire world.Looks ok if i was into vamp's and not oh i dunno eve
Misha still trying to get this vidcard to work .
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Khamelean
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Posted - 2011.07.12 04:00:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Jonathan Malcom
Edited by: Jonathan Malcom on 12/07/2011 00:06:33
The lack of understanding displayed in this thread is astounding. I'll break it down for you Barney-style.
No one is upset that CCP is using funds from their flagship product to diversify their offerings. The problem is the proportion of funds being diverted, as evidenced by the last three expansions. (i.e. most)
Their flagship product is languishing from a distinct lack of resource allocation. Long-standing bugs, terrible interfaces, imbalanced ships et al are left at the bottom of the priority list while CCP develops features that, while hugely promising, are delivered in such a state that they add next to nothing to the experience.
In addition, they're charging us again to access some of this content. Content that our subscriptions paid to develop. Content that was prioritized as more integral to the success of the game than other content.
It's blatant financial mismanagement and resource misappropriation.
I think you meant to say: "I'm not upset that CCP is using funds from their flagship product to diversify their offerings"
Because clearly some people are upset that this is happening.
Eve is still being developed, the majority of CCP's resources are still devoted to Eve. They may not be currently devoted to the part of the game that you enjoy, but you need to realise that this is a big game. Lots of players enjoy doing lots of different things.
They are one company with limited resources, CCP has been taking crap for ages because they announced incarna and hadn't delivered it yet, so they diverted more resources to getting it done and making the best it can be. Now they are taking crap because they are trying to finish it. If CCP had decided to scrap incarna and just work on spaceships, there would be just as many if not more complaints.
Just because they are not currently working on your little corner of the universe, does't mean they are not working on eve, nor does it mean they won't work on your little corner next.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.07.12 04:14:00 -
[90]
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
You are not paying for expansions.
You are not paying for the development of anything.
You are paying to play. Period.
You pay $14.95 to play ONE month of available content.
If CCP decides to blow that money on drugs and hookers that is now THEIR choice to make (unless you own shares). If they want to use that money to develop 10 other games, guess what? IT IS THEIR MONEY TO DO WHAT THEY WANT WITH IT.
CCP is not a bank. They are not taking your money to invest it for you.
Do you feel entitled to decide what McDonalds does with "your" $4 when you buy a Big Mac?
Sure, you can get ****ed if you don't like what CCP is spending its money on. But please understand already that you are NOT entitled to decide where that money is spent because once you give it to CCP it is no longer YOURS in any way, form, or shape. When you pay you've already received what you paid for: A one-month subscription. That's it.
To put it politely - youre not smart.
Anyway Im not paying anything until they start adding content to EVE again.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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