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REQ - A longer skill Q 72h ?

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Blackjack 3v3	Posted - 2011.07.04 19:44:00 - [1] Why do you need a longer skill Q ? Simple, summer, not much play time, vacation and other stuff trying not to log in this dam game every day to place a stupid skill. The most frustrating thing is when I want a skill at lvl 5 and lvl 4 takes over 24h and I need to w8 out the time to be able to place lvl 5. If Eve is such a game that is rewarding me for not playing can I have a longer skill Q so I can not play all summer and not lose SP. PS: To every troll that will answer with "you need a cash shop item for a longer skill Q" hope they die in a fire or a car/airplane crash w/e comes first.
Kirkland Langue	Posted - 2011.07.04 19:48:00 - [2] I'm cool with a 365 day queue. Log in once per year to change skills.
Xercodo Amarr Daj'Juntar	Posted - 2011.07.04 19:48:00 - [3] both, flaming plane crash good luck getting this implemented within the next year if at all i don't feel like arguing against the idea, just pointing out how unrealistic it is to try to get it to happen... -------------------------------------------------- The drake is a lie
Suitonia Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2011.07.04 19:49:00 - [4] Could always opt to just train different skills to level 5 instead if you simply can't find 5 minutes of your time to login and honestly, you'll only have to login for 5 minutes on 1 day to train the skill to 5 after the queue for 4 gets to less than 1 hour, it's not that big of a deal... ---
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.07.04 19:55:00 - [5] Originally by: Blackjack 3v3 If Eve is such a game that is rewarding me for not playing It is not, so no you can't. And anyway, unless you have some severe sleeping disorder, 24h should be plenty for the purpose of the queue. ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP
Drykor Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2011.07.04 19:59:00 - [6] You don't have to login every day. All you need is a long skill. A few level V's should easily get you through summer if you can't be arsed logging in for shorter stuff. --- Drykor - AHARM
Blackjack 3v3	Posted - 2011.07.04 20:01:00 - [7] Originally by: Suitonia Could always opt to just train different skills to level 5 instead if you simply can't find 5 minutes of your time to login and honestly, you'll only have to login for 5 minutes on 1 day to train the skill to 5 after the queue for 4 gets to less than 1 hour,[24h] it's not that big of a deal... I can find time to log in when I`m home however I`ll be away for 2 weeks - every few months or so I have to travel ( rl stuff ) , I don`t think I`m the only player in eve who can`t log in every single day, and when the lvl 4 takes a few days then I MUST log in when I need to place the lvl 5 if not I`ll lose SP until I get back.
Flynn Fetladral Caldari BlackSite Prophecy	Posted - 2011.07.04 20:03:00 - [8] Edited by: Flynn Fetladral on 04/07/2011 20:05:40 I don't see what the big issue is personally. Remember, there never used to be a skill Q at all. Try to have a long level V skill lined up for when you might be away which you can just drop into a skill plan when and if needed. If your away for two weeks at a time every two or three months is seriously easy to plan your skill training to make sure your covered. Follow Flynn on Twitter
B00T INI	Posted - 2011.07.04 20:04:00 - [9] Some people don't have computers, they should make the game playable with pen & paper.
Blackjack 3v3	Posted - 2011.07.04 20:05:00 - [10] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Blackjack 3v3 If Eve is such a game that is rewarding me for not playing It is not, so no you can't. And anyway, unless you have some severe sleeping disorder, 24h should be plenty for the purpose of the queue. Sorry But I think it is for casual players like myself I only need to play 3/4h a day time for a month then I can pay for my account for a year. However I do not , I play for 1/2h a day time for 2 months
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.07.04 20:12:00 - [11] Eve-gate skill change interface = WIN. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Brujo Loco Amarr Brujeria Teologica	Posted - 2011.07.04 20:35:00 - [12] Originally by: Akita T Eve-gate skill change interface = WIN. Since this is a new game we all playing I will pay up to 29.99$ for a new better and improved Skill Queue, if I can make it a week long one for 39.99 or perhaps a year long one for 69.99 I would pay it. It's about the money anyway, so lets trash this game. 1 year long skill queues, I would pay for it for all my alts and main ---Eve is not dying, its being murdered ----
Lu'Marat	Posted - 2011.07.04 21:33:00 - [13] Edited by: Lu''Marat on 04/07/2011 21:36:58 I really wouldn't mind a longer Queue, either. I mean, I'm sure we can agree that it would be handy, for people who can't log in for a while, for people who don't want to keep fiddling with their learning, etc. If you are not one of these, changing the queue will not affect you, in any way. So question is, what ARE the arguments against a longer queue? For the longest time we didn't have any queue at all, it was log back in in half an hour for that level II or waste the time till you can. Of course, while skills kept training on an unsubbed account that would've been bad business for CCP, but as characters stop training now soon after their subscription runs out, that's off the table. So, is there any reason why we wouldn't want a longer queue, apart from "I don't need it, why do you, noob?" For that matter, why can't we change the queue from, say, EVE Mon? How does the game benefit from requiring people to log on, click four buttons, log off? I reckon a longer queue wouldn't even be difficult to implement, so it's not even a matter of "spend your time on important stuff."
Cyaxares II	Posted - 2011.07.04 21:38:00 - [14] how much AUR would you be willing to pay for one year of "extended skill queue" service?
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.07.04 21:38:00 - [15] Originally by: Lu'Marat So question is, what ARE the arguments against a longer queue? People would log in less. A day is only 24h long, so the queue only needs to be 24h long to serve its purpose. ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP
Hannibal Ord Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.07.04 21:38:00 - [16] Originally by: Akita T Eve-gate skill change interface = WIN. ^^ This
Lu'Marat	Posted - 2011.07.04 21:45:00 - [17] Originally by: Tippia People would log in less. A day is only 24h long, so the queue only needs to be 24h long to serve its purpose. Again, what's the problem with that? There are plenty of people who keep a sub running only to keep their characters training, and litterally log in, click four buttons, log off. What's the benefit of this? I highly doubt it's about keeping them interested in the game, if they weren't interested in the first place then they hardly would keep paying their subs. The question is not, does the queue serve it's purpose, the question is, why shouldn't it do more than it does right now if there's people who'd benefit from that?
Lu'Marat	Posted - 2011.07.04 21:51:00 - [18] I mean, take my case. I have a sub running, but half a week ago my computer died, and with EVE now requiring Shader 3 it works on none of my older machines, nor on the other machines I have easy access to. The only way for me to access EVE right now is to go to a game cafe, or ask a friend of mine for five minutes on his machine. Buddy's busy too though, so I don't do that on a daily basis. So right now, I have some level V skill training that I don't really need, but it's either this or letting my character go idle. At the same time, there's plenty of low-level stuff that I do have use for, but which I can't train right now because I'd need daily access to fill my queue.
Cinzia Nova	Posted - 2011.07.04 21:56:00 - [19] Originally by: B00T INI Some people don't have computers, they should make the game playable with pen & paper. ^^ this, best idea EVER!!!
Solomunio Kzenig Amarr Indicium Technologies Hephaestus Forge Alliance	Posted - 2011.07.04 22:08:00 - [20] Originally by: Cyaxares II how much AUR would you be willing to pay for one year of "extended skill queue" service? ^^This.
Medidranda Livoga	Posted - 2011.07.04 22:14:00 - [21] There are no real arguments against queue, just belief that making game more inconvenient somehow makes people play more. Personally queue should be as allowed to be as long as your current paid subscription time is. This might also tempt some people to aquire longer subs. And they should make evemon official part of EVE.
Gunter Keppler	Posted - 2011.07.04 22:18:00 - [22] Originally by: Lu'Marat Edited by: Lu''Marat on 04/07/2011 21:53:13 Originally by: Tippia People would log in less. A day is only 24h long, so the queue only needs to be 24h long to serve its purpose. Again, what's the problem with that? There are plenty of people who keep a sub running only to keep their characters training, and litterally log in, click four buttons, log off. What's the benefit of this? I highly doubt it's about keeping them interested in the game, if they weren't interested in the first place then they would hardly keep paying their subs. The question is not, does the queue serve it's purpose, the question is, why shouldn't it do more than it does right now if there's people who'd benefit from that? The question is: how long should the skill queue become? 48h? 72h? No matter how long it is, there will always be a reason for someone to say "hey, couldn't it be longer?". "I'm getting a baby soon... the skill queue is 96h now... but why can't it be 6 months, so I don't have to log in until my baby doesn't need any breast feeding?" (Just making a point here, no offense against women ;) ) then comes a clever guy, asking like you "what's the problem with that"? Sure, technically, it IS possible. The question is, where will you stop afterwards and what's useful? Maybe a year? Where is the sense in keeping the subscription if you are not logging in for several months or a year? 360000 subscription and no one online during the summer... great, ask the traders what would happen ;) And in case of emergency: there ARE skills taking up to 72-96 days, requesting no longer skill queue ;)
Celeritas 5k Connoisseurs of Candid Coitus	Posted - 2011.07.04 22:26:00 - [23] ITT: People who weren't around before the skill queue was implemented. You have less than zero reason to complain, stop being a little *****. - NEVER PVP SOBER.
Jaehawn	Posted - 2011.07.04 23:05:00 - [24] Just offer to pay money and CCP will jump on it. Will fit in with their new business model. Call it gold skill que.
Cutter Isaacson Minmatar Fearsome Engine	Posted - 2011.07.05 00:33:00 - [25] Originally by: Blackjack 3v3 PS: To every troll that will answer with "you need a cash shop item for a longer skill Q" hope they die in a fire or a car/airplane crash w/e comes first. You have some serious issues mate. Originally by: Not CCP Zinfandel CCP Zinfandel: ****ING SPACE MONOCLES!
Boaz Hedion Merkava	Posted - 2011.07.05 00:41:00 - [26] I am, and will remain in favour of what we currently have: 24h skill queues. Pushing the boundaries on everything this trivial just doesn't work for me.
Mira Noan	Posted - 2011.07.05 00:41:00 - [27] EVE only lets you train 50 skills at a time anyway, don't ask me why, tried it once, was entertaining.
Lillyaee	Posted - 2011.07.05 00:44:00 - [28] Originally by: Akita T Eve-gate skill change interface = WIN.
Bane Loppknow Pel Industries	Posted - 2011.07.05 01:24:00 - [29] This is the type of thing that would fit nicely into the NEX Store. Default queue stays 24 hours, but NEX allows you to purchase longer queues that last, say, a month. So for one month you can queue 3/4/whatever days of skills, then it reverts back to one.
Solosky	Posted - 2011.07.05 01:24:00 - [30] After CCP opened Aurum Pandora's box I expect every thread with idea or request will be accompanied with questions "how much aurum you can offer for this?" Frankly, from now on I don't see any point for CCP to implement any features/content for "subscribers 1.0" while they can offer them for aurum / additional payments. Something like "Want 30 days long queue? That's fine, 1000 aurum for one-time extension, 3000 for permanent." (5 days of subscription left)
Vierego Vierego's Junk Imports	Posted - 2011.07.05 01:43:00 - [31] Originally by: B00T INI Some people don't have computers, they should make the game playable with pen & paper. Me and some friends are playing, we started last fall. We should be in tech 2 cruisers and gear sometime next month. One of our guy has been mining for the last fourty game sessions. He almost has enough for a hulk
kerradeph Gallente Penumbra Military Industrial Complex	Posted - 2011.07.05 02:05:00 - [32] no. as has been stated there is no need for a skill past 24 hours. I think what might work is to have something like the limited and full API only with passwords. one allows you access to everything, one allows access to skill que and PI interface, but will not let you undock, access any items/ships, or access the wallet.
AkJon Ferguson JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance	Posted - 2011.07.05 02:51:00 - [33] I remember when skill queues were being debated (I was opposed to the idea of skill queues at all,) I predicted that it would only be a matter of time before the WoW players convinced CCP to make it longer. My prediction might come to pass yet, though it'll likely be something you acquire with Aurum. Want to buy a monocle?
Blackjack 3v3	Posted - 2011.07.05 08:08:00 - [34] Originally by: Cutter Isaacson Originally by: Blackjack 3v3 PS: To every troll that will answer with "you need a cash shop item for a longer skill Q" hope they die in a fire or a car/airplane crash w/e comes first. You have some serious issues mate. That`s what you got from my post the dam PS directed @ trolls , let me change it up a little all - Cutter I know you from ER so you`re cool. I don`t have issues what are you on about.The only problem I have is I NEED a longer skill Q that`s not a even a real problem more like a BIG inconvenience forcing me to log in more then I would like to. Have over 6 months on my few accounts so if I had say a 6 month skill Q ^^ - Epic gaming at it`s finest
Blackjack 3v3	Posted - 2011.07.05 08:12:00 - [35] Originally by: AkJon Ferguson I remember when skill queues were being debated (I was opposed to the idea of skill queues at all,) I predicted that it would only be a matter of time before the WoW players convinced CCP to make it longer. My prediction might come to pass yet, though it'll likely be something you acquire with Aurum. Just to make it clear to you "Num-Nut" I never played wow in my life. Also read the fine print the one in Yellow to trolls who direct this little request to the cash shop. You can pick fire / car/airplane crash or my fav burning airplane crash. Now kindly remove yourself from this world.
Adrian Idaho	Posted - 2011.07.05 08:59:00 - [36] Originally by: AkJon Ferguson I remember when skill queues were being debated (I was opposed to the idea of skill queues at all,) I predicted that it would only be a matter of time before the WoW players convinced CCP to make it longer. What arguments could you possibly have against the skill queue? Seriously, please tell us. I'm all for a longer skill queue. CCP's reasoning that they want to have the players log in and play the game is flawed; I log in every morning to update my queues, but I hardly ever play before work. You know, there's a difference between making something hard and making it inconvenient. The short skill queue is a perfect example for the latter (and for ****ty game mechanics). Oh, and yes, I started playing before the skill queue was introduced. And I never once played WoW.
Kira Hasashin	Posted - 2011.07.05 09:01:00 - [37] A longer skill Q would be too easy, I can understand it's convenience but such a feature would get abused real badly by most players. True we all have other things to do in life, but it never hurts to ask a close friend or even a trusted corporation member to continue your Q if you're really that busy.
Ayame Yubari	Posted - 2011.07.05 09:14:00 - [38] If you ask me, CCP has set this up to artificially bloat their statistics. People logging in once a day gives much better numbers than once a week or month. Perpetuum does this better, in my opinion. Each player accumulates SP over time (1 per minute I think) and then gets to spend that on skills whenever he pleases. Makes much more sense that way.
Zoroa Aulx-Gao Koa Mai Hoku Destiny Corrupted.	Posted - 2011.07.05 09:23:00 - [39] I thought that one of the future purposes of EVE Gate was to be able to add and switch skills in your training queue. Did I not read that somewhere? Either way, if you could do that then going on holiday wouldn't really be an issue since there's usually internet cafTs or just pay as you go ones in hotels.
Franny Mentis Seorsum	Posted - 2011.07.05 09:24:00 - [40] Originally by: Celeritas 5k ITT: People who weren't around before the skill queue was implemented. You have less than zero reason to complain, stop being a little ****. I miss those days back when your skill continued training after your sub was up too looks at DoomsDay Operations 5*(but a strange lack of titan skill still :( , maybe I should stop quitting EvE every now and then)
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.07.05 09:33:00 - [41] Originally by: Blackjack 3v3 The only problem I have is I NEED a longer skill Q that`s not a even a real problem more like a BIG inconvenience forcing me to log in more then I would like to. Have over 6 months on my few accounts so if I had say a 6 month skill Q ^^ - Epic gaming at it`s finest What you need is to find a pastime that fits in with your busy schedule. If you don't have the time to even log in and set skills training then I really don't see why you bother subscribing to an online game at all. Expecting a longer skill queue because the current system inconveniences you while it would be to the detriment of the game in general is selfish. CCP want's people to log in. They conceded after years of whining to add the current skill queue and opting to make it 24hrs only was the best implementation they could have gone with. It eliminates the realistic issues of alarm clock skill changes or setting long skills when you are away for inconvenient periods without just letting people farm their accounts and not interact with the game. Believe it or not, CCP aren't simply after your subscription, they want an active player-base. ~~~
Ayame Yubari	Posted - 2011.07.05 09:37:00 - [42] Uh yeah, logging in 2 minutes to set a skill is very "interacting with the game"
Just Another Toon	Posted - 2011.07.05 09:38:00 - [43] what makes me laugh about the eve community they are so dumb that they actually oppose a feature that helps them
Ayame Yubari	Posted - 2011.07.05 09:43:00 - [44] Not to mention: say I'm training Mining Barge 5 so I can train Exhumers. Of course I can't queue up both skills even though it would be technically possible for the game to recognize that the Exhumer skill is queued after the Mining Barge 5 skill. So I either have to set a "bridge" skill to avoid running empty or I have to be online the exact moment the Mining Barge skill is finnished. This is effectively still the alarm clock mechanic.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.07.05 09:56:00 - [45] Edited by: Tippia on 05/07/2011 09:57:44 Originally by: Lu'Marat Originally by: Tippia People would log in less. A day is only 24h long, so the queue only needs to be 24h long to serve its purpose. Again, what's the problem with that? The problem is that people would log in less. This gives them less opportunities to stay logged in. Quote: The question is not, does the queue serve it's purpose, the question is, why shouldn't it do more than it does right now if there's people who'd benefit from that? Because it already serves it purpose perfectly ù to avoid alarm-clock skill changes and still have people log in every now and then ù so there's no need to fiddle with it and make it worse. Also, because "people would benefit from it" isn't enough of a reason unless you also consider the negative consequences and explain why they don't matter. I would benefit immensely from having a trillion ISK injected into my wallet every day, but that would ruin the purpose of ISK. Originally by: Just Another Toon what makes me laugh about the eve community they are so dumb that they actually oppose a feature that helps them Because not all helpful features are actually beneficial. A PvP flag would be helpful, but hugely detrimental, for instance. Originally by: Ayame Yubari So I either have to set a "bridge" skill to avoid running empty or I have to be online the exact moment the Mining Barge skill is finnished. This is effectively still the alarm clock mechanic. àexcept that you don't have to alarm-clock the change-over, so it's quite effectively not that at all. And at any rate, the problem you're describing would not in any way be solved by extending the skill queue. ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP
Ayame Yubari	Posted - 2011.07.05 10:06:00 - [46] Originally by: Tippia àexcept that you don't have to alarm-clock the change-over, so it's quite effectively not that at all. And at any rate, the problem you're describing would not in any way be solved by extending the skill queue. If I want to transition from Mining Barge 5 seamlessly to Exhumers, then yes it's alarm clock time. Your second statement is true of course, it's more of a separate issue.
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.07.05 10:13:00 - [47] Originally by: Ayame Yubari Originally by: Tippia àexcept that you don't have to alarm-clock the change-over, so it's quite effectively not that at all. And at any rate, the problem you're describing would not in any way be solved by extending the skill queue. If I want to transition from Mining Barge 5 seamlessly to Exhumers, then yes it's alarm clock time. Your second statement is true of course, it's more of a separate issue. No one is FORCING you to do this. Go make a suggestion in features and ideas. ~~~
Lu'Marat	Posted - 2011.07.05 12:02:00 - [48] Edited by: Lu''Marat on 05/07/2011 12:07:22 Originally by: Tippia Because it already serves it purpose perfectly ... so there's no need to fiddle with it and make it worse. ... consider the negative consequences and explain why they don't matter. ... I would benefit immensely from having a trillion ISK injected into my wallet every day, but that would ruin the purpose of ISK. Er, how does that example apply to the topic at hand? Spawning free ISK in a game driven by ISK economy clearly and obviously is a bad idea. What's the connection to the skill queue? Don't get me wrong, if there are negative aspects to changing the skill queue then I'm perfectly willing to accept them as valid or tell you why I think they're invalid. So I'm asking again, what ARE the negative aspects? Negative as in, would affect you as a player negatively, or your gameplay, or the game as such, or CCP as a company? I reckon that's the categories a feature can be harmful in. The only actual argument I see is your "if people log in less, that gives them less opportunities to stay logged in", but I don't see what point you're trying to make. If a player logs in less because he/she sets up the skill queue to last a long time, then chances are that person right now does not have the time or ability or desire to actually play the game. Do you mean that if those people are required to log in every so often because their queue ran out, then seeing the game interface creates an impulse to stay logged in just a little longer and run just one mission, or sell that tritanium that's been lying in their hold for so long? And if so, do you estimate that this is a significant factor in total gameplay happening? Is that what would "make it worse?" As for what others said: Why pay for a game you don't play? Simple, because EVE allows me to keep my character growing even in times when I can't actually play. For me that is right now because my computer is kaputt, soon it will be because I need to focus on my studies for a month or two and can't afford the time to play. I'll probably keep my sub going anyway beacuse I know when I can go back to playing EVE, my character will let me use new toys and have new fun. That factor is one -major- advantage EVE has over literally all other titles on the market. So, I believe it would actually be a smart idea to extend the queue, because it strengthens that advantage and may convince more people to keep an unused character running and paid. And as for "how long do you want the queue to be?" Simple - keep it training and switching skills as long as there's skills set up to train and switch. No need to agree on a limit, just keep it open end. Maybe even allow people to inject skills whose requirements are not yet met, so they can set them up to train after the requirements ARE met. Just mark them as inactive, if that doesn't happen automatically for skills at level 0, not a big deal. Does that harm anything? Guess not. Would it be hard to implement? Guess not. Would it benefit people? Yep. So why not have it?
Zulf BesGUowy Amarr	Posted - 2011.07.05 12:19:00 - [49] Edited by: Zulf BesGUowy on 05/07/2011 12:24:53 I dont care about my skill queue, somtime im to lazy to login and change skills even i know my queue stop two day ago, probably because i got a lot sp, but i understand people whith low sp amount so they are crazy over sp and queue.
Blackjack 3v3	Posted - 2011.07.05 12:27:00 - [50] Originally by: Kira Hasashin A longer skill Q would be too easy, I can understand it's convenience but such a feature would get abused real badly by most players. True we all have other things to do in life, but it never hurts to ask a close friend or even a trusted corporation member to continue your Q if you're really that busy. Account sharing is Illegal . Also I would not trust anyone with my account info especially a virtual friend. Check out this guy crying he got hacked but what he actually did was give away his account details to corp "friends" then he left the corp and joined a new one then he lost all his stuff ... that`s not hacked that`s just plain stupid. Linkage - EvE Online forum
Lu'Marat	Posted - 2011.07.05 12:28:00 - [51] Edited by: Lu''Marat on 05/07/2011 12:29:45 Oh I dunno, I'm not saying we need to have this or else. Sure, I'd love to have it 'cause it'd be very convenient, but I can manage. I really just would like to know why some people seem to think it is such a bad, bad idea. Also: Originally by: Kira Hasashin A longer skill Q would be too easy, I can understand it's convenience but such a feature would get abused real badly by most players. Abused? How do you abuse something like a skill queue??
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.07.05 12:51:00 - [52] Edited by: Tippia on 05/07/2011 12:52:48 Originally by: Lu'Marat Er, how does that example apply to the topic at hand? "It would be good for me" ≠ good for the game. Beneficial is not the same thing as non-harmful. Quote: Don't get me wrong, if there are negative aspects to changing the skill queue then I'm perfectly willing to accept them as valid or tell you why I think they're invalid. So I'm asking again, what ARE the negative aspects? People would log in less. This gives them less opportunities to stay logged in. Quote: If a player logs in less because he/she sets up the skill queue to last a long time, then chances are that person right now does not have the time or ability or desire to actually play the game. If a player does not have the time/ability/desire to play the game right now, he can already set up a skill queue that lasts a long time. If he wants to extend that queue, it can be done at any time, without the need for alarm-clock attention, and taking, what? A minute? No need to increase the queue length. Quote: Do you mean that if those people are required to log in every so often because their queue ran out, then seeing the game interface creates an impulse to stay logged in just a little longer No. I'm saying that the number of things that keep them in the game are given a chance to make an impression and make the player stick around. This can be anything from local to the market window to the S&I list to corp chat to the notifications list. Quote: Is that what would "make it worse?" No. Trying to add functionality to something that already perfectly solves the problem it is meant to solve usually makes things worse because any such change means it must now solve two problems, which inevitably creates trade-offs between these purposes. This is what would make it worse. Quote: Would it benefit people? Yep. So why not have it? Because beneficial is not the same thing as non-harmful. ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP
Lu'Marat	Posted - 2011.07.05 13:45:00 - [53] Edited by: Lu''Marat on 05/07/2011 13:49:03 Originally by: Tippia Beneficial is not the same thing as non-harmful. Actually, yes it is. "Harmful" is an antonym to "beneficial" so if something is beneficial then by definition it is non-harmful, otherwise it wouldn't be beneficial. Just to clarify that from a language point of view, and I'm just saying that because if I'm not wrong you're the one who wrote that nice detailed analysis of CCPs mistakes with Incarna last week or so, so you might appreciate that kind of feedback. That said, what's good for me ain't automatically good for others, true. So let's look at this again. Originally by: Tippia Trying to add functionality to something that already perfectly solves the problem it is meant to solve usually makes things worse because any such change means it must now solve two problems, which inevitably creates trade-offs between these purposes. This is what would make it worse. Well, if you simply extend the duration of the queue then that actually doesn't solve two problems, but it solves the same problem to a greater extent, in my view. Also, I think your objection here is pretty generic and essentially applicable to any kind of feature change, and certainly to any introduction of new features. Usually the answer to that is asking: is there desire for the new feature, and: do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages? Continuing to look at it from a development point of view, I'd say all the required functionality is already there - the queue can stack skills, you can inject skills and add them to the queue, etc. So, quite likely, implementing this could be as simple as changing a few integers that tell the queue how many hours of small-duration skills it should allow. The only thing that probably requires more fiddling is my suggestion of letting players inject skills whose requirements are not yet met, and even there I reckon changing the logic checks from "can't inject" to "can't train" wouldn't be much of an effort. Based on this premise, I think we're left with possible disadvantages from a gameplay perspective. Originally by: Tippia I'm saying that the number of things that keep them in the game are given a chance to make an impression and make the player stick around. Alright, I see your point, but I'm asking: is that important? If that player can log in it means he has an active account, so the game already made enough of an impression to have him pay a subscription. If players lacks time/ability/desire to stay logged in, they probably won't stay logged in no matter how much impression you throw at them, or if they do then they likely stay logged in for a short time only which won't produce significant gameplay. Well, except for the "lacks desire" party maybe, but I think that's a small minority, based by all I've seen and all the scenarios I can come up with. So I'll argue that up to this point, there may be a theoretical downside, but it is rather miniscule. Either people can and will play, or they can't and won't. If anything, I'd say this is an argument -against- making them log in, when they know they can't play right now but there's this really cool stuff going on right now and they're annoyed that they can't participate. So, not only miniscule, but possibly even a counter-argument. Originally by: Tippia If a player ... wants to extend that queue, it ... tak[es], what? A minute? No need to increase the queue length. No need maybe, unless that player can't access the game, and really can't spend that minute even if he wanted to. In that case, what's merely convenient for some is very significant and enabling for others. Bottom line: Unless I'm wrong about the costs of implementing this, and unless you think paying customers need additional incentive to keep paying, even if that may mean irritating them, I believe you're left with a simple "yes, this would be handy."
SC0T1SH WARRIOR	Posted - 2011.07.05 13:50:00 - [54] Slap on some tiny skills to take it to 23hrs 59mins 59secs and then smash a Lv5 on to top it up for a month if you have none of the smalls left, then why complain? stick a Lv5 in it and come back when its ~24hrs.
Lu'Marat	Posted - 2011.07.05 13:55:00 - [55] Edited by: Lu''Marat on 05/07/2011 13:56:29 Originally by: SC0T1SH WARRIOR Slap on some tiny skills to take it to 23hrs 59mins 59secs and then smash a Lv5 on to top it up for a month if you have none of the smalls left, then why complain? stick a Lv5 in it and come back when its ~24hrs. Well, I have plenty of small skills left, and I can't come back in 24 hours, so right now I'm training assault ships V which I really don't need that badly, as opposed to a lot of smaller stuff that I can't train due to my situation and how the queue works.
Lieutenant Biscuits	Posted - 2011.07.05 14:01:00 - [56] hmm whats the deal with this? as in are you asking for a longer q? or have ccp announced a change to the skill q that i missed? WHAT IS GOING ON??? LOL i want all the details!!! but make it brief please! :P
SC0T1SH WARRIOR	Posted - 2011.07.05 14:02:00 - [57] Originally by: Lu'Marat Originally by: SC0T1SH WARRIOR Slap on some tiny skills to take it to 23hrs 59mins 59secs and then smash a Lv5 on to top it up for a month if you have none of the smalls left, then why complain? stick a Lv5 in it and come back when its ~24hrs. Well, one premise of this thread is "what if you can't come back in 24 hours to do just that?" if you cant come back once in 30+ days, or cant come back for 5 mins at the end of your skill queue, then why are you even concerned about training things? one 5 min login anytime within that 30+ days can be used to put smaller (less than 24hrs) skills before your Lv5. as long as the first set of skills is under 24hrs then it will not knock off a Lv5. if i am going away for a month, i will throw on a set of skills up to 24hrs and then have a Lv5 to take it over the days. if i get a chance to login beforehand, i will queue up another 23:59 set to squeeze an extra day out of it. it works well the way it is and if you plan your skills along with your RL commitments then you have no problem.
Asm Khurelem	Posted - 2011.07.05 14:03:00 - [58] It'd be good f you could add something to the queue that depends on anohter skill trained before it, if both would fit in the queue... :?
Nizran L'Crit Caldari Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic	Posted - 2011.07.05 14:10:00 - [59] What's sad is there are so many people that dont know about gate.eveonline.com. When I finally discovered it after 6 months of playing I was ecstatic. Answer in-game e-mails via web? Heck ya! Full skill queue interface instead of the limited one we have now? Please, for the love of God, yes. I wanna be L337!!!
Lu'Marat	Posted - 2011.07.05 17:10:00 - [60] Originally by: SC0T1SH WARRIOR if you cant come back once in 30+ days, or cant come back for 5 mins at the end of your skill queue, then why are you even concerned about training things? ... it works well the way it is and if you plan your skills along with your RL commitments then you have no problem. Yes, I know it works well for most people. I also remember the long time when we had no queue, so I'm aware it's already much better. But right now I'm in a situation where I cannot log in, despite wanting to. I could of course ring up my friend and say, can I use your computer for five minutes at 22:45 on July 10th, that's when my EVE skill queue runs out. He probably would even say yes, but I know the man is busy so I don't want to bother him about it. So right now I'm wasting good training time that'd be better used on smaller skills, which I can't train because of how the queue works. It'll also stay that way because I won't be able to replace my computer for the next two months. So while I certainly see that most of you don't need a longer queue and don't much care about it, and that there are some (as far as I can tell) pretty abstract objections to it, I'm telling you that it would be a very useful feature for me, and I don't see any practical reason not to have it. And I want to keep training because, well, I'm paying for this month, and I'd like to pay for the next month because I like the game and want to support it, but it'd be nice if I could at least benefit from my investment by training skills that I need, rather than those I do not need. 'cause honestly, 5% more damage on rails ain't worth $30 to me. Being able to fly a command ship once I come back, on the other hand, well... Oh and: I agree, this is just the kind of handy, non-gamebreaking thing CCP could offer on the NeX store. Ten bucks to have an indefinite skill queue, sure, why not.
Llewelyn Fawr	Posted - 2011.07.05 17:23:00 - [61] If someone could develop some sort of API based app that will let me update my skill queue from my iPhone / Android handset I will buy you a big beer.* * By accepting payment in beer you forfeit intellectual property rights for the application to me!
Lu'Marat	Posted - 2011.07.05 17:29:00 - [62] Well, I guess EVE Mon could do that. Does that run on those devices? I think there's a mobile version of it...
I'thari Minmatar	Posted - 2011.07.05 17:35:00 - [63] Originally by: Kirkland Langue I'm cool with a 365 day queue. Log in once per year to change skills. This... besides, less people logging in = less lag.
Blackjack 3v3	Posted - 2011.07.05 19:14:00 - [64] Edited by: Blackjack 3v3 on 05/07/2011 19:14:56 Also because I like a game that does not mean I need to log in every dam day ... Fun fact I need to leave the country at 6 AM and my lvl 4 skill does not finish until 7:30 AM so I can place lvl 5 it just happened again very annoying situation so I need to place something I don`t really care about to much to lvl 5 so I don`t lose SP. PS: Trolling removed. @ Zymurgist IT WAS NOT trolling it was actually an anti trolling thing I said to stop those players who will post in my thread just to direct my to the cash shop my friend. It worked FYA. Until you removed it . Thx
Jak Silverheart Minmatar	Posted - 2011.07.05 19:50:00 - [65] Be happy we even have a skill quene, back in my day we didn't even have that and CCP was against the idea. We had to be online to do all those annoying 5-10min skills and switch them, than setup another skill when we went to sleep at night or work so we kept training, now its simple set up skills for 24h or whatever you want. And keep it up, log in 1 time per day at most its not that hard. If you go on vacation setup a long training V skill, I know thats how I did BC V and Command Ships V (though in my case it was actually ghost training back than) Incarna, giving pilots a single room bachelor pad with a mirror and no beer since 6.21.2011
Bhock Gallente	Posted - 2011.07.05 20:04:00 - [66] My main issue (for long skills training) is that I need to log during that 24h window where the queue is not full... and I like my weekends far from internet (or I could rephrase "my wife likes..."). I would be happy simply with a "second/default skill" that is always available at the end of the queue, whatever the queue duration. This would allow to always have at least two skills in the queue, and eliminate a lot of issues about logging in that 24h window. The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. (Winston Churchill)
rootimus maximus Caldari	Posted - 2011.07.05 20:17:00 - [67] Edited by: rootimus maximus on 05/07/2011 20:17:23 Originally by: I'thari Originally by: Kirkland Langue I'm cool with a 365 day queue. Log in once per year to change skills. This... besides, less people logging in = less lag. I seem to recall that when the skill queue was first introduced, CCP stated quite clearly that they want people to be logging in and that's why they restricted it to 24 hours. I can't see them extending it (unless it's a Ken and Barbie store option) given their position.
Wilhelm Riley	Posted - 2011.07.05 20:24:00 - [68] Why is everyone so averse to losing a few hours of skill training? It's not the end of the world, so your level 4 finishes and nothing is training for a few hours.. BIG DEAL! EVE is one of the few games where you can advance your character without having to log in and everyone takes it for granted..
Sonjaa VII	Posted - 2011.07.05 20:42:00 - [69] Yes ! I lost sp because of Lulzsec. T.
Viginti The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2011.07.05 20:56:00 - [70] Edited by: Viginti on 05/07/2011 20:57:20 /me remembers when there was NO skill queue. tl;dr - waaaaaa I'm too busy to (very) passively play a game P.S. you seem to have a lot of time to whine here about it, don't forget up update your skill queue, just sayin
Llewelyn Fawr	Posted - 2011.07.05 21:02:00 - [71] Originally by: Lu'Marat Well, I guess EVE Mon could do that. Does that run on those devices? I think there's a mobile version of it... Eve Mon / iClone etc. let you monitor your skill queues but not add to / change them. If anyone knows of one that does, shout!
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.07.05 21:30:00 - [72] Originally by: Blackjack 3v3 Account sharing is Illegal . Also I would not trust anyone with my account info especially a virtual friend. Nitpick. There is nothing illegal about account sharing, breaking a EULA is not the same as braking an actual law. That said the person suggesting that course of action shouldn't be recommending that people violate the EULA.
Lu'Marat	Posted - 2011.07.05 21:34:00 - [73] Originally by: Viginti Edited by: Viginti on 05/07/2011 20:57:20 /me remembers when there was NO skill queue. P.S. you seem to have a lot of time to whine here about it, don't forget up update your skill queue, just sayin Yeah, I kinda do have a lot of time right now, seeing how I can't play eve because the only part of eve my computers will run are the forums. Sadly. :( (Which is kinda part of why I keep posting in here so much.) And oh boy, do I remember that time. Planning your skill switching routines around your sleeping and working patterns, what fun :D
Xercodo Amarr Daj'Juntar	Posted - 2011.07.05 22:01:00 - [74] Originally by: Blackjack 3v3 Edited by: Blackjack 3v3 on 05/07/2011 19:14:56 Also because I like a game that does not mean I need to log in every dam day ... Fun fact I need to leave the country at 6 AM and my lvl 4 skill does not finish until 7:30 AM so I can place lvl 5 it just happened again very annoying situation so I need to place something I don`t really care about to much to lvl 5 so I don`t lose SP. if you leave at 6 AM but the skill doesn't finish till 7:30 AM you have 22h 30m of open skill queue with which to drop in the level 5 or did you not know that you could queue multiple levels of the same skill? -------------------------------------------------- The drake is a lie
Veryez	Posted - 2011.07.05 22:25:00 - [75] Originally by: Blackjack 3v3 Edited by: Blackjack 3v3 on 05/07/2011 19:14:56 Also because I like a game that does not mean I need to log in every dam day ... That is the EXACT reason CCP never wanted a skill que. Search the forums, CCP stated repeatedly a skill que encourages players to not play the game, which they do not support. The reason you have a skill que (and possibly the only reason) was that it helps newer players, who have many short skills to train. Since it enhances the new player experience, it was allowed to be implemented. It has nothing to do with making EvE more convenient for people who don't want to log in. You are not rewarded for not playing EvE, forget that idea. If you don't want to log in every day, then don't, and accept the results of that decision. Nobody is forcing you to play EvE. As far as vacations/trips go, simple, set a long skill before you go (Battleship 5, Advanced Weapons Upgrades 5, and Drone Interfacing 5 were ones I used).
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.07.05 22:33:00 - [76] Originally by: Lu'Marat Originally by: Tippia Beneficial is not the same thing as non-harmful. Actually, yes it is. "Harmful" is an antonym to "beneficial" so if something is beneficial then by definition it is non-harmful, otherwise it wouldn't be beneficial. àexcept that the two are not mutually exclusive and because negating one does not imply the other. So no, just because it's beneficial does not mean it's non-harmful. Free ships for everyone would benefit the players, for instance. It would also harm the game. Quote: I think your objection here is pretty generic and essentially applicable to any kind of feature change, and certainly to any introduction of new features. Not really. It only applies to features that are doing exactly what they're supposed to do (and do them well). It most certainly does not apply to new features ù there is nothing to say that new features must change old ones and force them to serve (and, without fail, trade off between) two purposes. Quote: if you simply extend the duration of the queue then that actually doesn't solve two problems, but it solves the same problem to a greater extent If you extend the queue beyond a single day, it starts to solve other supposed problem than the original one: no longer having to get up at 4am to change skills. Instead, it becomes a degree of "I don't want to log in to change skills", which is a different issue altogehter, and one that CCP does not want to solve because they don't consider it an issue to begin with ù quite the opposite. Quote: is that important? Yes. The number of people on line is what makes the game world vibrant. And just because he doesn't have the time/ability/desire to log in on Monday doesn't mean the same applies to Tuesday, and there's very little need for a coarser granularity than that. Getting him to log in on Tuesdays checks whether things have changed or not. And again, for those that know for sure that Tuesday will be a no-go to begin with, the option is already there to make a longer queue. Quote: Bottom line: Unless I'm wrong about the costs of implementing this, and unless you think paying customers need additional incentive to keep paying, even if that may mean irritating them, I believe you're left with a simple "yes, this would be handy." àand still harmful to the game, because beneficial is not the same as not harmful. The more people are logged in, and the more chances there are to get them hooked for a minute or ninety, the better. It has nothing to do with providing incentives to keep paying ù it has to do with incentives to log in: because contrary to popular belief, the game does not reward you for being off-line; it rewards you for logging in. This is one of those rewards. ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP
Lu'Marat	Posted - 2011.07.05 23:40:00 - [77] Edited by: Lu''Marat on 05/07/2011 23:42:37 Edited by: Lu''Marat on 05/07/2011 23:41:56 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Lu'Marat Actually, yes it is. "Harmful" is an antonym to "beneficial" so if something is beneficial then by definition it is non-harmful, otherwise it wouldn't be beneficial. àexcept that the two are not mutually exclusive and because negating one does not imply the other. So no, just because it's beneficial does not mean it's non-harmful. Free ships for everyone would benefit the players, for instance. It would also harm the game. Are we really arguing this point? I told you I was talking from a language point of view, and that's pretty clear cut. Free ships for everyone would be nice for people at first, but then it would harm the game, and thus by proxy harm the players. Ergo, it is not beneficial, it is bad. Can we at least agree on that? But fine, let's go with "beneficial is not non-harmful", it's catchy. Originally by: Tippia CCP does not want to solve because they don't consider it an issue to begin with ù quite the opposite. Yes, obviously that's why it is the way it is. And because I disagree that it is, well, not an issue, but certainly something useful, I'm posting here and asking for it. Originally by: Tippia ...The more people are logged in, and the more chances there are to get them hooked for a minute or ninety, the better... Tippia, what are you trying to tell me? That it is good to force people to expose themselves to content regularly, in the hopes that something will catch and they'll invest more time than they wanted to, or can afford to? Because that's really what your argument boils down to. If somebody didn't want to play EVE at all, they wouldn't be paying a sub, and they won't see your content no matter what you do. If they simply do not want to play the game -right now-, well, that's not the kind of people that'd need a longer queue anyway, and you don't need to incentivize them much because they'll log in eventually and do stuff, anyway. The people who would benefit from a longer queue are a) people who need it because they can't access a computer that runs EVE. Like me right now. So while logging in to change the queue would definitely result in me playing the game a little longer (a lot longer), that won't happen, because -I- -can't- -log- -in-. Same goes for the guy who is going overseas. If I should log in right now, it's only because I asked my friend to let me use his machine for five minutes after all, and I know I won't stay round for an hour of pew pew in that case. b) people who need the queue because they should focus on work and cannot afford to play EVE for any extended period of time. That's people like me, two months from now. Sure, when I log in to get the queue running again, I'll probably end up playing for half an hour, or an hour, or more. But that means I'll waste time I can't afford to waste, and that messes with my life. You really don't want that, that's just bad karma right there. Also, in the long run this kind of "incentive" actually works against you, because if people figure that each time they log in they end up procrastinating, they'll figure that the only way to keep up their work schedule is to give up on the queue, which quite likely means they'll cancel their sub, and then they're gone for good. TL;DR: Keeping the short queue will not entice people to play more, at least not those who would not have played anyway, and if it does entice people who would not have played anyway then chances are you really don't want that to happen. [Edit:]Incidentally, if it really did work the way you say, and CCP wanted that, then how come we have those long level-V skills, or rather why do they keep training even if I don't log in? Those may well mean a player does not log in for the better part of a month. Do you see that causing harm? I don't.
Kinta Huron Minmatar Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.07.06 00:22:00 - [78] Great idea but why just 72hrs? I would want a full week at least.
Lu'Marat	Posted - 2011.07.06 09:01:00 - [79] Happens I just found this: Originally by: CCP Hammer Yes, we intend to put skill queue functionality and many other in-game features onto EVE Gate. Granted, it's not the same as extending the skill queue, but being able to access the queue from evegate would let me do pretty much all I want to do.

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PS: To every troll that will answer with "you need a cash shop item for a longer skill Q" hope they die in a fire or a car/airplane crash w/e comes first.

PS: To every troll that will answer with "you need a cash shop item for a longer skill Q" hope they die in a fire or a car/airplane crash w/e comes first.