EVE Search - Incursion Insurgence

Check My IP Information

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Incursion Insurgence

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Angry Rasta Gallente Incursion Control Scorpions	Posted - 2011.07.09 14:14:00 - [1] Communication from Incursion Control Scorpions Incursions have been a source of steady, solid income for many pilots in New Eden for more than 6 months. However, a small group of people have taken over the empire incursion sites by hiding a scam in the guise of organization and exert control through intimidation. The group in question is the ruling council of The Ditanian Fleet [TDF.] public incursion channel. They have herded hundreds of capsuleers into a public channel in order to milk their talents for their own profit. The organization appears beneficial until the mechanics are revealed. These show TDF policies to be corrupt and elitist. As members of the community who are disgusted with these policies, we have chosen to rebel against the TDF Hive Overlords. Our grievances are as follows: 1) First and foremost, the use of publicly distributed blacklists in an attempt to control the community to exclude dissenters and ôundesirablesö is inexcusable. Known griefers and looters are one thing, people you just donÆt like are another. Train them; resolve the issue, whatever, but this policy must end. 2) The Ditanian Fleet gathers pilots for the final battles at the end of an incursion. This does not entitle the TDF Hive Overlords to the profits the loot generates. The fleet who did the fighting deserves a share of the profits, or the fleet decides to give the profit too you û *Not your decision* 3) TDF claims of a ôlost shipö fund are a scam. The FCs who command fleets on a daily basis replace the ships they lose, not TDF. Stop the policy of collecting donations for this fund. You are taking the hard earned ISK of the community as a ôdonationö in addition to keeping the profits from the mother ship loot. 4) TDF has lost respect for the pilots it claims to support. Elitist TDF fleets take sites without care for the work others have done. TDF support for the community at large extends only to the blacklist, keeping out the undesirables and taking their hard earned ISK and profits. TDF has no respect for anyone not in their circle. The lack of recruiting from the public incursion channel is a reflection of this attitude. We will continue to rebel against the TDF Hive Overlords and hope others will join our cause. I sincerely hope we are not viewed as simple antagonists since we do not seek anything but the freedom to fly with whom, how, wherever and whenever we wish without the looming fear TDF uses to control the community. To learn more about the resistance, the evidence or how you can help, please contact me directly. Sincerely, Angry Rasta Diplomat Incursion Control Scorpions
Alara IonStorm Caldari	Posted - 2011.07.09 14:18:00 - [2] Cool a Corp managed to Corner the Market.
Angry Rasta Gallente Incursion Control Scorpions	Posted - 2011.07.09 14:29:00 - [3] Somewhat yes. There are a few people that haven't been assimilated yet but they are becoming few and far between. The depressing thing is, TDF is committed to helping new pilots but won't even recruit from the public incursion channel? It leaves it up to us FCs that will take them to educate them constantly. TDF could care less about that portion of the market.
Medarr Amarr Vengance Inc. Wayfarer Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2011.07.09 14:43:00 - [4] you fail at trolling.. now GTFO allready and go run a site.
Angry Rasta Gallente Incursion Control Scorpions	Posted - 2011.07.09 14:50:00 - [5] Originally by: Medarr you fail at trolling.. now GTFO allready and go run a site. Sorry, no real fleets because I got blacklisted. Plus, since I'm blacklisted, anyone that flies with me that recruits in the TDF channel risks being blacklisted as well. Of course, we've wardec'd them now too so that probably irritated them a bit.
Medarr Amarr Vengance Inc. Wayfarer Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2011.07.09 14:51:00 - [6] well i guess they black listed you for a good reason then.
Exordium8 Minmatar Operational Detachment-Alpha The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.07.09 15:19:00 - [7] I don't know much about TDF, but BTL (the shield version) runs fine. Either a) you're a troll/incompetent and a danger to the fleet, so you were blacklisted and decided to cry on the forums about it or b) something's seriously wrong with TDF, and you should join BTL I'm guessing a
Angry Rasta Gallente Incursion Control Scorpions	Posted - 2011.07.09 15:25:00 - [8] Well, for the record, I wasn't blacklisted until I joined the corp that is shooting wardec's at FCs and I've actually flown with TDF a number of times. I do not know how BTL handles the running of the shield side as I can only speak about armor. In this case, the last straw was a 1.6 billion mom loot sale that TDF conducted through auction after the fight - of course after they took donations - for a single ship loss. Somehow all of that disappeared into the "Lost Ship Fund" never to be seen by the fighting pilots again.
Tom Gerard Caldari Deadspace Depot	Posted - 2011.07.09 15:29:00 - [9] They nerfed insurgents a few patches ago no more blow up in jita.
Enos Delekore Gallente Ice Fire Warriors	Posted - 2011.07.09 17:34:00 - [10] Originally by: Medarr well i guess they black listed you for a good reason then. I'm agreeing on this one, if you don't like a certain FC then just don't fly under them. All I'm reading is a bunch of butthurt exhiles who can't follow logical rules.

Vladserous	Posted - 2011.07.09 17:58:00 - [11] For all you guys on the black list, most of you know what u have duns, im sure their a few out their who dount deserve it petition the council, as for the lost ship fund, its their and does help ive recieved compinsation for a ship loss myself. As to the guys attacking mom fleet,(thats not a good way to make friend.)everybody in the fleet and their corps probably black listed you, thats your fault not TDF.
Callduron	Posted - 2011.07.09 18:04:00 - [12] Originally by: Angry Rasta Well, for the record, I wasn't blacklisted until I joined the corp that is shooting wardec's at FCs You joined the corp that is wardecing FCs. YOU joined the corp that is WARDECING FCs. YOU JOINED THE CORP THAT IS WARDECING FCS. YOU JOINED THE CORP THAT IS WARDECING FCS. Do you seriously think it is unfair you got blacklisted? Also TDF and BTL don't control anything. Nothing is stopping you forming a fleet in the Incursion chat. Nothing except most regular players, the kind you claim are being exploited don't want to fly with you and do want to fly with them.
Angry Rasta Gallente Incursion Control Scorpions	Posted - 2011.07.09 22:31:00 - [13] Originally by: Enos Delekore Originally by: Medarr well i guess they black listed you for a good reason then. I'm agreeing on this one, if you don't like a certain FC then just don't fly under them. All I'm reading is a bunch of butthurt exhiles who can't follow logical rules. Yes I don't like certain FCs and do not fly with them. However, when every FC from TDF I encounter acts in exactly the same domineering and greedy way, I begin to distrust the whole organization. As for following logical rules, well if it was only organizing pilots I'd have no issue. But when you start pushing people out of a community, taking ISK out of everyone's pocket you claim to support and ignore whole swaths of the community you "represent", it starts looking less logical and more disrespectful and underhanded. Originally by: Callduron Originally by: Angry Rasta Well, for the record, I wasn't blacklisted until I joined the corp that is shooting wardec's at FCs YOU JOINED THE CORP THAT IS WARDECING FCS. Do you seriously think it is unfair you got blacklisted? Also TDF and BTL don't control anything. Nothing is stopping you forming a fleet in the Incursion chat. Nothing except most regular players, the kind you claim are being exploited don't want to fly with you and do want to fly with them. *No I do not think this is unfair at all. My blacklisting was self imposed and voluntary and I knew I would be immediately banned due to the wardecs. Again, it was voluntary.* If you do not believe me, go ask around in the TDF channel. I also have the chat logs to show that it was voluntary. I was not banned, nor under any threat of ban prior to joining ICS. As for forming fleets, of course my requests have dropped off - I blacklisted myself. That doesn't stop me getting requests but I refuse out of respect for the fleet members since I'm at war. We are simply tired of TDF corruption and will not stay silent any longer.
Callduron	Posted - 2011.07.09 22:50:00 - [14] Is there any chance you could tell us without the hyperbole what exactly is wrong with them? So far what I've gleaned is - they dont like you and you dont like them (/care) - they allegedly spend money donated for new ships on new ships for themselves (seems kinda reasonable) - they compete for sites and beat rubbish fleets (which is fair enough, the sites are there to be competed for).
Ammzi	Posted - 2011.07.09 23:11:00 - [15] Sorry to say my honest opinion here Rasta. But you fail to see this in an objective manner... throw your feelings overboard please and take it easy.
Acac Sunflyier Gallente	Posted - 2011.07.09 23:23:00 - [16] IMO TDF is a bunch of commanders with big sticks fighting over a small sand box.
SilentSkills Gallente Tax Evaders Inc.	Posted - 2011.07.10 00:41:00 - [17] 1) The blacklisted is to exclude players/entities who have been actively involved in: a) intentional ganking of ships b) purposely breaking RR chains which include being a logistic and refusing to rep x/y ships resulting in ship losses, and worst case scenario, fleet loss. c) pilots who are intentionally at war, did not mention it to logis/fcs and got logis/pilots killed. d) ninja looters e) well known griefing entities f) people who fail to follow the FEW VERY SIMPLE guidelines Blacklist does not have: new players, afkers, idiots etc. as much as some would like that to happen. 2) I've personally not been in a single mom fleet where loot does not get ninjaed. IF someone inside the fleet loots and ninjas it or sticks with it they are usually blacklisted as well, I can't remember the specific pilot name but it has happened. 3) Scamming is an integral part of EVE. If you fall for it, you deserve it. However it is COMMON courtesy to pitch in whenever someone IN YOUR FLEET loses a ship. Donations are usually given to the affected player. 4) They respect players quite a bit. It's the other way around, players get too comfortable and careless around FCs after they stick for long enough and start doing stupid **. Both BTL and TDF encourage competing for sites, its a way to spice things up and wake people up from the routine. Plus gives people bragging rights. Both sides tend to be good sports about it. If you are in a fail fleet with 7 drakes and you get owned by a fleet of vindicators/nightmares don't cry like a ***. No one takes away your ISK. Read the message at the end of the site, the rewards go to the fleet that contributes the most. What makes you think that a drake zombie fleet that spends less than 100mil on their ships is entitled to anything other than a fair chance to fight for a site with a fleet rocking in faction BSes worth billions? Both TDF and BTL don't always recruit from public incursion channels simply because the people in there could or could not be alts of said griefers/gankers/ninjas, when you are flying 2.5 billion isk ships you don't leave the fate of your ship to chance. Also, there are plenty of players looking for fleets inside said BTL and TDF channels. Get your facts straight
Angry Rasta Gallente Incursion Control Scorpions	Posted - 2011.07.10 00:47:00 - [18] Originally by: Callduron Is there any chance you could tell us without the hyperbole what exactly is wrong with them? So far what I've gleaned is - they dont like you and you dont like them (/care) Actually I thought they had a good idea when I first joined in their channel and many of them seem genuinely good people. It seemed a proper way to organize a community wanting to exploit a very lucrative income stream but were very disorganized. This was a good idea. It remains a good idea. There are good people there that could make this work but apparently some of the elites in the council have chosen to exploit the community they originally wanted to help. For that matter, reference my post above - I had no trouble or complaints before I voluntarily joined a corp that I knew would get me blacklisted. - they allegedly spend money donated for new ships on new ships for themselves (seems kinda reasonable) No, they spend donated money on new ships for themselves while claiming to assist the community with the money. I can stand someone telling me they are going to use community money to improve themselves for the work they're doing - it gives me a choice of willingly participating in improving them instead of myself. Creating fantasy tales about a ship replacement fund to hide a scam is beyond my toleration levels. - they compete for sites and beat rubbish fleets (which is fair enough, the sites are there to be competed for). If you are trying to attract people to your channel so that you can help them, is this the way that it is done? Would you try to train new people in incursions by saying "Sorry, go figure it out"? Those new people are the channel/corp/alliance life blood and without them anything attempted will fail. So these new players aren't elite immediately. So what? If an elite fleet goes in and smashed the site over the top of the new guy, what's his incentive to stay and learn? Originally by: Ammzi Sorry to say my honest opinion here Rasta. But you fail to see this in an objective manner... throw your feelings overboard please and take it easy. Ammzi - Yes, I am heated over this topic and my reactions may be somewhat extreme but apparently it is the only way we can make enough noise to be heard and not brushed under the carpet. We are willing to listen to reasonable talk from anyone that will take a truly objective look at the whole situation.
mkint	Posted - 2011.07.10 02:43:00 - [19] TDF+BTL are two channels where players organize for incursions. There is one governing principle for both chats: If you want to be in the channels, don't try to ruin the fun for everyone else. There are sub-clauses that are in place to ensure the above, including -no wardecced pilots in fleets, -no griefers and etc, -don't prematurely despawn an incursion. No wardecced pilots because that's a tool griefers use to ruin other peoples' fun. No griefers, because they are out to ruin peoples' fun (list of griefers is maintained through a public blacklist.) And despawning incursions prematurely leaves no opportunity for incursion fun until the next one spawns, which could be several days of station spinning (not fun.) There are admittedly some shortcomings in the system, but in my experience it's because people who should be blacklisted aren't, not because people who shouldn't are. It would be safe to say that the incursion community's forums are probably a better venue for discussing the weaknesses of the system and how it could be improved. Be aware folks, the "other" incursion channel was started because an extremely incompetent FC got blacklisted. It appears he may be recruiting people into his chat that are slightly less incompetent than he is, but fleeting out of that chat is still highly dangerous. They take no precautions against griefers and field just awful fleets (armor drake incursion fleets. ) Anyone who hasn't gotten themselves blacklisted is free to join "The Ditanian Fleet" or "BTL Pub" channels. And even if you are blacklisted, I've seen people get un-blacklisted through appeal. Regarding the lost ship fund - if an FC loses ships "on a daily basis" that FC is incompetent and should NOT be an FC. Stop being an FC, learn the sites as a regular fleet member, and then FC. The "reluctant leader" is a good FC, the "lookit me! I'm an FC!" is a bad FC. I have never seen a TDF ship replacement fund, only a BTL one, which I understand is financed by voluntary donations and mom-site loot (which to me, I'd rather have the funds available for a lost ship than the 1/60th of the loot value I'd get otherwise, usually something like 10 mil isk.) My favorite FCs ask people to send some isk directly to any individuals who have lost a ship, which with those FCs is extremely rare. Regarding competing for sites - people who are in the BTL/TDF communities usually will respect "first come first serve" but aren't required to (some FCs will compete whenever they can.) Competition is fun for many people, and since it does not add risk of loss of ships, is not considered griefing and is allowed. (Personally I always encourage my FCs to compete with the incompetent FC who got himself blacklisted.) TL;DR - the main incursion community is out to have fun and to make sure everybody can have fun with incursions. That means people who are out to ruin the fun are denied the chance to take part as much as is possible. OP, you got suckered by someone who is so incompetent, he's probably a griefer.
Pytria Le'Danness	Posted - 2011.07.10 06:18:00 - [20] I see those channels as a tool to get fleets together, not a religion that needs practicing. The black lists are helpful, but I've seen some people on them that I already flew with and wonder how they got on there, thus I regard them with suspicion. Of course I find MS fights exceedingly boring and rather travel to the next site than to fight in them, thus I can't really judge what happens to the MS loot and if it is shared fairly. But, in the end, these are chat channels. They have no power other than what the users give them.

Beeswarm	Posted - 2011.07.10 06:21:00 - [21] 3/10
Fishsticks Fred	Posted - 2011.07.10 07:25:00 - [22] Edited by: Fishsticks Fred on 10/07/2011 07:25:30 You're complaining about the unfairness of a blacklist, when you willingly joined said blacklist. Makes sense to me. Also, switch the the darkside, I mean the BTL side. Slightly less sucky. Or just become an FC, get into the joint shield-armor FC channel, and troll the **** out of them. Lols to be had. edit: Also, no one recruits from the public incursion channel because it's terrible.
Angry Rasta Gallente Incursion Control Scorpions	Posted - 2011.07.10 12:53:00 - [23] Go to sleep and have to get up and write Originally by: mkint -no wardecced pilots in fleets, -no griefers and etc, -don't prematurely despawn an incursion. These rules are very good ideas and I completely support them. I've never said "GET RID OF THE BLACKLIST!" To quote my orginial post "1) ...to control the community to exclude dissenters and ôundesirablesö is inexcusable. Known griefers and looters are one thing, people you just donÆt like are another." If you leave someone perceived as a horrible FC out there to continue to garnering fleets then wouldn't it be prudent to educate said FC rather than just snarl and blacklist him? If I can be shown evidence (off channel of course) that attempts were made to educate and resolve the differences between the FC we all know we're talking about then *I WILL PUBLICLY ADMIT MY IGNORANCE AND BACK OFF* Originally by: mkint Regarding the lost ship fund - if an FC loses ships "on a daily basis" that FC is incompetent and should NOT be an FC. Stop being an FC, learn the sites as a regular fleet member, and then FC. I totally agree. It's the path I followed to being a VG FC myself. If an FC is that bad then it absolutely applies. But that wasn't the issue I raised... The Point ----> To quote my original post again "The FCs who command fleets on a daily basis replace the ships they lose, not TDF. Not to nitpick here but notice the plurality. I wasn't referring to any individual FC. I was referring to ALL FCs who run fleets out of that channel. They cover the costs, not TDF. If there is a method to contact TDF in order to make requests for replacements of legitimately lost ships then it is a mystery to me and everyone else. So the perception is not of a benign entity offering organization and protection from the ninja looters. They are the ninja looters and they do it in front of us in the guise of helping us. I can handle paying up if I perceive the services to be worthwhile but being lied to raises my ire. ONCE MORE -- If I can be shown evidence (again,off channel) reflecting the use of the BILLIONS TDF takes from pilots for the purposes of replacing ships then *I WILL BACK OFF* Not quoting the whole thing but... Originally by: mkint Regarding competing for sites Again I agree that compeitition can be fun, especially when it is between armor/shield fleets. But this isn't about Armor vs. Shield. This is about TDF doing this to the armor pilots they claim to be "teaching". It is not compeitition when a fleet of pirate/faction/t3 ships rolls over the newb t1 BS who's not having problems, they're just slow. Everyone who experiences this understands it is not competition and it cannot be legitmately viewed that way. This would be like the Yankees teaching little league players and then challenging them to a game. To be clear...I don't mind competing for sites but I do have respect for those I am trying to teach and allow them to continue learning without *ruining their experience.* To quote you one more time in regards to this issue: Originally by: mkint If you want to be in the channels, don't try to ruin the fun for everyone else. TDF does exactly this when they disrespect other armor fleets. It's not just "to compete with the incompetent FC who got himself blacklisted" but also regularly happens with normal fleets formed in that channel.
Lunar Epoch	Posted - 2011.07.10 13:03:00 - [24] Originally by: Vladserous For all you guys on the black list, most of you know what u have duns, im sure their a few out their who dount deserve it petition the council, as for the lost ship fund, its their and does help ive recieved compinsation for a ship loss myself. As to the guys attacking mom fleet,(thats not a good way to make friend.)everybody in the fleet and their corps probably black listed you, thats your fault not TDF. Back to school for you on spelling and grammar.
Ammzi	Posted - 2011.07.10 14:42:00 - [25] I am/have been in some diplomatic convos with Angry Rasta so there's no need for further escalation of this topic, please! :)
Juliette DuBois	Posted - 2011.07.10 14:47:00 - [26] I would imagine wardeccing high sec activity corps like this would be fairly effective way of annoying them instead of whining about it in the forums. There is absolutely no reason to obey anyway if you don`t feel like it, councils and such only have power if people do what they say. Rebel away and start a few fires... That`s what EVE is all about.
Angry Rasta Gallente Incursion Control Scorpions	Posted - 2011.07.10 14:48:00 - [27] Originally by: Ammzi I am/have been in some diplomatic convos with Angry Rasta so there's no need for further escalation of this topic, please! :) Correct. Ammzi and I are in contact and clearing up all the misconceptions, misunderstandings and issues that we have. More details to come on resolution.
Kaji Xeg Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.07.10 15:02:00 - [28] Edited by: Kaji Xeg on 10/07/2011 15:03:39 I guess those guys don't like Goonswarm huh?
Stick Cult	Posted - 2011.07.10 16:06:00 - [29] Originally by: Kaji Xeg Edited by: Kaji Xeg on 10/07/2011 15:03:39 I guess those guys don't like Goonswarm huh? That's a whole other, hilarious issue...
Scorn Gojira	Posted - 2011.07.10 16:57:00 - [30] Edited by: Scorn Gojira on 10/07/2011 16:59:03 Originally by: Angry Rasta Originally by: Ammzi I am/have been in some diplomatic convos with Angry Rasta so there's no need for further escalation of this topic, please! :) Correct. Ammzi and I are in contact and clearing up all the misconceptions, misunderstandings and issues that we have. More details to come on resolution. Umm, maybe a total of 4 people care about the resolution. Keep it between yourselves. Edit: As for anyone even giving you the time of day to 'clear up' your childlike obsession with the inane, it's nothing short of a serious drop in credibility on BTL's behalf. Disappointing.



Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.