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AFK CLOAKERS, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

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Miang Hawaa	Posted - 2011.07.10 00:30:00 - [1] This blatant exploit has gone on long enough. Players should not be allowed to have a tactical advantage while afk at any point. This defines exploit. Everyone knows it is a problem. It has been for a very long time. Why has nothing been done? What is being done about this frustrating problem?
j1tabug IWINIWINIWIN	Posted - 2011.07.10 02:45:00 - [2] HTFU
Lykouleon Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.07.10 03:05:00 - [3] Originally by: Miang Hawaa This blatant exploit has gone on long enough. What blatant exploit? I see no blatant exploit. Quote: This defines exploit. No, this defines exploit. Quote: Everyone knows it is a problem. I see no problem here but your inability to adapt. Quote: Why has nothing been done? Because it isn't a problem. Quote: What is being done about this frustrating problem? Making fun of you, for starters. Then another thread complaining that "AFK LOL CLOAKERS ARE RUINING MY BOTS" will appear again next week and we'll make fun of that person as well. Lovely cyclical posting.
Miang Hawaa	Posted - 2011.07.10 04:39:00 - [4] Quote: What blatant exploit? I see no blatant exploit. It is tragic that I have to spell this out for you. An enemy's presence in a system causes numerous problems for locals. In general, people will not do anything outside sit in a pvp fleet when neutrals or reds, even just one, is present in a system. This means no isk generating of any kind, including mining and ratting without significant risk. Complexes are out of the question for fear that the enemy happens to have probing capabilities. Even well tanked ships are potentially at risk because we don't know if the enemy has a cyno. So their mere presence can halt isk production in a system. Here comes the exploit: they can have this major tactical ability without even being near their computer. Just leaving your character logged in and cloaked while you're at work is exploitation of game mechanics when it can so drastically affect so many people. Quote: I see no problem here but your inability to adapt. Explain what counter measures you can employ against this.
AnzacPaul the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2011.07.10 04:47:00 - [5] So go ****ing carebear in the system next door.
Miang Hawaa	Posted - 2011.07.10 04:50:00 - [6] Originally by: AnzacPaul So go ****ing carebear in the system next door. You are utterly missing the point.
Cendric De'Credsiu	Posted - 2011.07.10 05:10:00 - [7] The point is simple, if you log into the system, the afk cloaker is there when you log in, You have to decide to take a risk to mine or rat inside that system and you don't know that he is afk. Just because he has been there all day doesn't mean that he is afk. Therefore in order to keep your industry level stable you have to continue to mine in the system. To keep your military level stable you have to rat in the system. It disrupts the production of ships for CTA's and other wars. It directly affects the wallets of those in the system. The presence of the afk cloak lowers the ability to do this activity with ZERO RISK to the cloaker. If the person is there at the computer then hey great its a part of the game. How ever if the person is AFK he is gaining a tactical advantage and causing damage to the owners of that systems wallets with ZERO RISK while not being at his computer. This is what we are asking to be fixed not the fact that somebody jumps in system cloaks up and disrupts the system. But the fact that they can walk away from there computer and not play and accomplish the same thing is what needs to be fixed. I have no issues with them pulling the tactic to disrupt operations and cost me and my alliance money but THEY NEED TO PLAY THE GAME TO DO SO not be able to walk away and go to work or school.
AnzacPaul the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2011.07.10 05:31:00 - [8] No one said 0.0 was safe.
Miang Hawaa	Posted - 2011.07.10 05:33:00 - [9] Originally by: AnzacPaul No one said 0.0 was safe. Nobody is implying it is.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Shadow Confederation	Posted - 2011.07.10 05:36:00 - [10] Originally by: Miang Hawaa Originally by: AnzacPaul So go **ing carebear in the system next door. You are utterly missing the point. I believe it is you who is missing the point. The point that you are poster number 10032473982723 who says the **ing thing every damn time and everyone else INCLUDING CCP says the exact same thing. Shut up....go away...and adapt or die. This is eve online...you will never....ever...get your wish. Grow up...grow a pair...and get used to it. People who are cloaked can't do a damn thing except sit there... its a mind game... and obviously they won since your rage posting. So just keep trolling away...because that's all your doing.

Miang Hawaa	Posted - 2011.07.10 05:52:00 - [11] Edited by: Miang Hawaa on 10/07/2011 05:52:36 Quote: The point that you are poster number 10032473982723 who says the **ing thing every damn time It shouldn't surprise me that you are too thick to see the issue with this. Quote: People who are cloaked can't do a damn thing except sit there... This statement is so **ing stupid I can't even decide how to respond.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.07.10 06:38:00 - [12] Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 10/07/2011 06:46:03 Just allow them to be probed. - Active Vanilla Cloak reduces signature in half, fill lowslots and implant slots with ECCM to remain gay. - Active Cloak on ship with bonuses reduces it by 75%. Leaves Coverts, Recons and BO technically still undetectable as intended. - All other stuff as is (cycle times, invisibility, recalibration, etc.). Huge nerf to lol-Solo capitals which shouldn't be possible anyway so bonus! Huge nerf to cloaky ratters so double bonus!
Toovhon	Posted - 2011.07.10 07:01:00 - [13] Maybe you wouldn't be afraid of 'AFK cloakies' if you were not AFKing in your space. Employ a combat air patrol while you mine. Have a player constantly watching the overview and scanning as you go about your business. Swap players in and out of this as the tedium eventually leads to lapses in concentration. Have your own cloaked ships standing by nearby so a cloaked attacker never knows exactly what he faces. Etc, etc. My point being there are ways to considerably reduce the risk you face. Having to do these things is the price you pay for being inside unsecured space. Adapt or die.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Shadow Confederation	Posted - 2011.07.10 07:12:00 - [14] Originally by: Miang Hawaa Edited by: Miang Hawaa on 10/07/2011 05:52:36 Quote: The point that you are poster number 10032473982723 who says the **ing thing every damn time It shouldn't surprise me that you are too thick to see the issue with this. Quote: People who are cloaked can't do a damn thing except sit there... This statement is so **ing stupid I can't even decide how to respond. Sure....says the alt toon whose too blinded by rage to see past his immaturity. fear the almighty cloaker...who sits in your system making you yell at silence. Just keep crying those tears.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2011.07.10 07:14:00 - [15] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 10/07/2011 07:16:21 Originally by: Miang Hawaa Everyone knows it is a problem. It has been for a very long time. Why has nothing been done? Because whenever someone mentions to just fix that problem and remove local, a gazillion of carebears like you moan about not being able to farm 110% safely anymore. An even more simple solution would be people like you just leaving nullsec, you obviously do not belong there.
Toovhon	Posted - 2011.07.10 07:16:00 - [16] Originally by: Miang Hawaa Everyone knows Do they now? I didn't know it was a problem for the intelligent and organised player.
Miang Hawaa	Posted - 2011.07.10 07:17:00 - [17] Originally by: Toovhon Maybe you wouldn't be afraid of 'AFK cloakies' if you were not AFKing in your space. Employ a combat air patrol while you mine. Have a player constantly watching the overview and scanning as you go about your business. Swap players in and out of this as the tedium eventually leads to lapses in concentration. Have your own cloaked ships standing by nearby so a cloaked attacker never knows exactly what he faces. Etc, etc. My point being there are ways to considerably reduce the risk you face. Having to do these things is the price you pay for being inside unsecured space. Adapt or die. Such mobilization is absurd. Why not also have a supercap fleet waiting on standby while you rat too? It is equally ridiculous, considering the effort exerted by the enemy: none. All this just because some dip****, at precisely zero risk to himself, is somehow allowed to continuously apply tactical pressure while he isn't even present at the keyboard. Your character should not have an impact on other players while you are absent from your computer. Your character should not profit while you are not playing the game; the same reason botting isn't allowed. Why is this such a difficult concept for some of you?
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Shadow Confederation	Posted - 2011.07.10 07:21:00 - [18] Edited by: Drake Draconis on 10/07/2011 07:23:23 Edited by: Drake Draconis on 10/07/2011 07:22:20 Originally by: Miang Hawaa Originally by: Toovhon Maybe you wouldn't be afraid of 'AFK cloakies' if you were not AFKing in your space. Employ a combat air patrol while you mine. Have a player constantly watching the overview and scanning as you go about your business. Swap players in and out of this as the tedium eventually leads to lapses in concentration. Have your own cloaked ships standing by nearby so a cloaked attacker never knows exactly what he faces. Etc, etc. My point being there are ways to considerably reduce the risk you face. Having to do these things is the price you pay for being inside unsecured space. Adapt or die. Such mobilization is absurd. Why not also have a supercap fleet waiting on standby while you rat too? It is equally ridiculous, considering the effort exerted by the enemy: none. All this just because some dip****, at precisely zero risk to himself, is somehow allowed to continuously apply tactical pressure while he isn't even present at the keyboard. Your character should not have an impact on other players while you are absent from your computer. Your character should not profit while you are not playing the game; the same reason botting isn't allowed. Why is this such a difficult concept for some of you? It's called using your head... tactically speaking.... amongst other reasons (feel free to use your imagination ladies and gentlemen) You don't need a supercap fleet....just a modest simple PVP fleet of 5 to 8 ships ready to go at a moments notice.... and you keep on your guard and keep your eyes open. If you want to mine in perfect peace and harmony with the carebear gods then go to high sec and stfu.... because everyone already knows this and we all have done it... hell go to WHS. No Local means you won't know anyway! Obviously you haven't... that's for sure. I've been on the receiving end and the giving end of AFK Cloaking.... its not that big of a bloody deal that you make it out to be. Your just crying like a baby because you don't like getting at Stop whining... and stop being lazy. Answering everyone's arguments with "You don't understand", "your dumb" isn't going to help either.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2011.07.10 07:21:00 - [19] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 10/07/2011 07:22:08 Originally by: Miang Hawaa All this just because some dip****, at precisely zero risk to himself, is somehow allowed to continuously apply tactical pressure while he isn't even present at the keyboard. Your character should not have an impact on other players while you are absent from your computer. And the problem is what exactly? The neutral entering system does face exactly the same dilemma, he doesnt know if the people in station are present at the keyboard or not, or if they even are in station or cloaked up somewhere. These people continually apply tactical pressure without being at the keyboard, at precisely zero risk to themselves. I'm afraid your logic does fall flat on its face, too bad.
Toovhon	Posted - 2011.07.10 07:22:00 - [20] Keep crying and failing to adapt (in ways that are not even very hard to manage), or stop whinging and be proactive. The choice is yours. I wish you'd gone with the later myself (if only to get you to shut up), but of well...

Miang Hawaa	Posted - 2011.07.10 07:25:00 - [21] Quote: Sure....says the alt toon whose too blinded by rage to see past his immaturity. You made a categorically stupid statement. Sorry that bothers you.
Toovhon	Posted - 2011.07.10 07:29:00 - [22] Originally by: Miang Hawaa Everyone who points out simple ways I can avoid a single player from unduly bothering me is stupid! Wahhh! O***...
Miang Hawaa	Posted - 2011.07.10 07:33:00 - [23] Quote: And the problem is what exactly? The neutral entering system does face exactly the same dilemma, he doesnt know if the people in station are present at the keyboard or not, or if they even are in station or cloaked up somewhere. These people continually apply tactical pressure without being at the keyboard, at precisely zero risk to themselves. I'm afraid your logic does fall flat on its face, too bad. This is the first counter argument in this thread that actually makes some sense. The difference, however, is that the 'blues' in the system have sovereignty. They are there because it is the space they've earned. They aren't afk because it provides a tactical pvp advantage, nor are they specifically afk to put pvp pressure on opponents.
Miang Hawaa	Posted - 2011.07.10 07:41:00 - [24] Originally by: Toovhon Edited by: Toovhon on 10/07/2011 07:30:21 Originally by: Miang Hawaa Everyone who points out simple ways I can avoid a single player from unduly bothering me is stupid! Wahhh! Ok... Because mobilizing a fleet of multiple players just so a single player can do some ratting is a simple and easy solution. Especially when the enemy has been cloaked in a system all day and, for all you know, will remain afk till dt. "Hey guys, I feel like making a little isk, how about you all spend the next couple hours sitting in a fleet one system over and doing nothing else, just in case this guy stops being afk. Thanks."
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2011.07.10 07:41:00 - [25] Originally by: Miang Hawaa This is the first counter argument in this thread that actually makes some sense. The difference, however, is that the 'blues' in the system have sovereignty. They are there because it is the space they've earned. They aren't afk because it provides a tactical pvp advantage, nor are they specifically afk to put pvp pressure on opponents. If they intend to put tactical pressure on neutrals or not is not important, fact is they do. The same applies to the cloaker, it might not even be his intention. For example, I used to ninja-npc to get my sec status fixed. Did this in a populated system, and locals obviously complained. I didnt mean to disrupt their activity at all, it was just them being too chicken to undock with a single neutral in system. The cloak was necessary to be safe in very hostile space. Fact is, the problem is not the cloaked neutral being afk, or the docked blues being afk. The problem is they all show up in the local chat. Local needs to be removed, and this whole problem goes away. Since CCP appears to be on this same page as well, we'll have our solution at some point, hopefully soon.
Toovhon	Posted - 2011.07.10 08:28:00 - [26] Originally by: Miang Hawaa Originally by: Toovhon Edited by: Toovhon on 10/07/2011 07:30:21 Originally by: Miang Hawaa Everyone who points out simple ways I can avoid a single player from unduly bothering me is stupid! Wahhh! Ok... Because mobilizing a fleet of multiple players just so a single player can do some ratting is a simple and easy solution. Especially when the enemy has been cloaked in a system all day and, for all you know, will remain afk till dt. "Hey guys, I feel like making a little isk, how about you all spend the next couple hours sitting in a fleet one system over and doing nothing else, just in case this guy stops being afk. Thanks." So adapt. Group up. Work together. Start being proactive. There's no reason you can't make a profit while minimising risk. Or perhaps you just prefer whinging... Seriously - if you're unable to cope with a lone cloaked ship in system, you need to move back to highsec. Because you clearly don't have the organisational ability necessary to survive in less secure space. Alternatively advise me where your system is, and I'll fly my stealth bomber on over and park it there a couple weeks :-D
Miang Hawaa	Posted - 2011.07.10 08:35:00 - [27] Originally by: Toovhon Originally by: Miang Hawaa Originally by: Toovhon Edited by: Toovhon on 10/07/2011 07:30:21 Originally by: Miang Hawaa Everyone who points out simple ways I can avoid a single player from unduly bothering me is stupid! Wahhh! Ok... Because mobilizing a fleet of multiple players just so a single player can do some ratting is a simple and easy solution. Especially when the enemy has been cloaked in a system all day and, for all you know, will remain afk till dt. "Hey guys, I feel like making a little isk, how about you all spend the next couple hours sitting in a fleet one system over and doing nothing else, just in case this guy stops being afk. Thanks." So adapt. Group up. Work together. Start being proactive. There's no reason you can't make a profit while minimising risk. Or perhaps you just prefer whinging... Seriously - if you're unable to cope with a lone cloaked ship in system, you need to move back to highsec. Because you clearly don't have the organisational ability necessary to survive in less secure space. Alternatively advise me where your system is, and I'll fly my stealth bomber on over and park it there a couple weeks :-D If it was just a lone cloaked ship I had to worry about, it would not be a problem for me. The problem is whether or not they have a cyno equipped.
Juliette DuBois	Posted - 2011.07.10 11:53:00 - [28] You don`t seem to understand. 0.0 is supposed to be worthless and cause endless streams of tears from foolish people who hold it. Until you wise up and move to NPC space you will keep suffering from this wonderful mechanic.
prooon Wombats in Combat	Posted - 2011.07.10 13:17:00 - [29] yumyum, delicious tears!
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2011.07.10 13:51:00 - [30] Originally by: Miang Hawaa If it was just a lone cloaked ship I had to worry about, it would not be a problem for me. The problem is whether or not they have a cyno equipped. If he has a cyno, surely he needs to be active to use it. Plus, many cyno situations can be negated with a jammer. The thing is, your problem isn't cloaks, but local intel channel. You're misreading the instant intel it's giving you and making bad judgements based on your misreading. Without a change to local, cloaks should remain as they are now.



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