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Miang Hawaa
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Posted - 2011.07.10 00:30:00 -
[1]
This blatant exploit has gone on long enough. Players should not be allowed to have a tactical advantage while afk at any point. This defines exploit.
Everyone knows it is a problem. It has been for a very long time. Why has nothing been done?
What is being done about this frustrating problem? |
j1tabug IWINIWINIWIN
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Posted - 2011.07.10 02:45:00 -
[2]
HTFU |
Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.10 03:05:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Miang Hawaa This blatant exploit has gone on long enough.
What blatant exploit? I see no blatant exploit.
Quote: This defines exploit.
No, this defines exploit.
Quote: Everyone knows it is a problem.
I see no problem here but your inability to adapt.
Quote: Why has nothing been done?
Because it isn't a problem.
Quote: What is being done about this frustrating problem?
Making fun of you, for starters. Then another thread complaining that "AFK LOL CLOAKERS ARE RUINING MY BOTS" will appear again next week and we'll make fun of that person as well. Lovely cyclical posting. |
Miang Hawaa
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Posted - 2011.07.10 04:39:00 -
[4]
Quote: What blatant exploit? I see no blatant exploit.
It is tragic that I have to spell this out for you.
An enemy's presence in a system causes numerous problems for locals. In general, people will not do anything outside sit in a pvp fleet when neutrals or reds, even just one, is present in a system. This means no isk generating of any kind, including mining and ratting without significant risk. Complexes are out of the question for fear that the enemy happens to have probing capabilities. Even well tanked ships are potentially at risk because we don't know if the enemy has a cyno.
So their mere presence can halt isk production in a system. Here comes the exploit: they can have this major tactical ability without even being near their computer. Just leaving your character logged in and cloaked while you're at work is exploitation of game mechanics when it can so drastically affect so many people.
Quote: I see no problem here but your inability to adapt.
Explain what counter measures you can employ against this.
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AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.10 04:47:00 -
[5]
So go ****ing carebear in the system next door. |
Miang Hawaa
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Posted - 2011.07.10 04:50:00 -
[6]
Originally by: AnzacPaul So go ****ing carebear in the system next door.
You are utterly missing the point. |
Cendric De'Credsiu
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Posted - 2011.07.10 05:10:00 -
[7]
The point is simple, if you log into the system, the afk cloaker is there when you log in, You have to decide to take a risk to mine or rat inside that system and you don't know that he is afk. Just because he has been there all day doesn't mean that he is afk. Therefore in order to keep your industry level stable you have to continue to mine in the system. To keep your military level stable you have to rat in the system. It disrupts the production of ships for CTA's and other wars. It directly affects the wallets of those in the system. The presence of the afk cloak lowers the ability to do this activity with ZERO RISK to the cloaker.
If the person is there at the computer then hey great its a part of the game. How ever if the person is AFK he is gaining a tactical advantage and causing damage to the owners of that systems wallets with ZERO RISK while not being at his computer. This is what we are asking to be fixed not the fact that somebody jumps in system cloaks up and disrupts the system. But the fact that they can walk away from there computer and not play and accomplish the same thing is what needs to be fixed. I have no issues with them pulling the tactic to disrupt operations and cost me and my alliance money but THEY NEED TO PLAY THE GAME TO DO SO not be able to walk away and go to work or school. |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.10 05:31:00 -
[8]
No one said 0.0 was safe. |
Miang Hawaa
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Posted - 2011.07.10 05:33:00 -
[9]
Originally by: AnzacPaul No one said 0.0 was safe.
Nobody is implying it is. |
Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Shadow Confederation
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Posted - 2011.07.10 05:36:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Miang Hawaa
Originally by: AnzacPaul So go ****ing carebear in the system next door.
You are utterly missing the point.
I believe it is you who is missing the point.
The point that you are poster number 10032473982723 who says the ****ing thing every damn time and everyone else INCLUDING CCP says the exact same thing.
Shut up....go away...and adapt or die.
This is eve online...you will never....ever...get your wish.
Grow up...grow a pair...and get used to it.
People who are cloaked can't do a damn thing except sit there... its a mind game... and obviously they won since your rage posting.
So just keep trolling away...because that's all your doing. |
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Miang Hawaa
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Posted - 2011.07.10 05:52:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Miang Hawaa on 10/07/2011 05:52:36
Quote: The point that you are poster number 10032473982723 who says the ****ing thing every damn time
It shouldn't surprise me that you are too thick to see the issue with this.
Quote: People who are cloaked can't do a damn thing except sit there...
This statement is so ****ing stupid I can't even decide how to respond.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.07.10 06:38:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 10/07/2011 06:46:03 Just allow them to be probed. - Active Vanilla Cloak reduces signature in half, fill lowslots and implant slots with ECCM to remain gay. - Active Cloak on ship with bonuses reduces it by 75%. Leaves Coverts, Recons and BO technically still undetectable as intended. - All other stuff as is (cycle times, invisibility, recalibration, etc.).
Huge nerf to lol-Solo capitals which shouldn't be possible anyway so bonus! Huge nerf to cloaky ratters so double bonus! |
Toovhon
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Posted - 2011.07.10 07:01:00 -
[13]
Maybe you wouldn't be afraid of 'AFK cloakies' if you were not AFKing in your space. Employ a combat air patrol while you mine. Have a player constantly watching the overview and scanning as you go about your business. Swap players in and out of this as the tedium eventually leads to lapses in concentration. Have your own cloaked ships standing by nearby so a cloaked attacker never knows exactly what he faces. Etc, etc.
My point being there are ways to considerably reduce the risk you face. Having to do these things is the price you pay for being inside unsecured space. Adapt or die. |
Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Shadow Confederation
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Posted - 2011.07.10 07:12:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Miang Hawaa Edited by: Miang Hawaa on 10/07/2011 05:52:36
Quote: The point that you are poster number 10032473982723 who says the ****ing thing every damn time
It shouldn't surprise me that you are too thick to see the issue with this.
Quote: People who are cloaked can't do a damn thing except sit there...
This statement is so ****ing stupid I can't even decide how to respond.
Sure....says the alt toon whose too blinded by rage to see past his immaturity.
fear the almighty cloaker...who sits in your system making you yell at silence.
Just keep crying those tears. |
Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2011.07.10 07:14:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 10/07/2011 07:16:21
Originally by: Miang Hawaa
Everyone knows it is a problem. It has been for a very long time. Why has nothing been done?
Because whenever someone mentions to just fix that problem and remove local, a gazillion of carebears like you moan about not being able to farm 110% safely anymore.
An even more simple solution would be people like you just leaving nullsec, you obviously do not belong there. |
Toovhon
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Posted - 2011.07.10 07:16:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Miang Hawaa Everyone knows
Do they now? I didn't know it was a problem for the intelligent and organised player. |
Miang Hawaa
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Posted - 2011.07.10 07:17:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Toovhon Maybe you wouldn't be afraid of 'AFK cloakies' if you were not AFKing in your space. Employ a combat air patrol while you mine. Have a player constantly watching the overview and scanning as you go about your business. Swap players in and out of this as the tedium eventually leads to lapses in concentration. Have your own cloaked ships standing by nearby so a cloaked attacker never knows exactly what he faces. Etc, etc.
My point being there are ways to considerably reduce the risk you face. Having to do these things is the price you pay for being inside unsecured space. Adapt or die.
Such mobilization is absurd. Why not also have a supercap fleet waiting on standby while you rat too? It is equally ridiculous, considering the effort exerted by the enemy: none.
All this just because some dip****, at precisely zero risk to himself, is somehow allowed to continuously apply tactical pressure while he isn't even present at the keyboard. Your character should not have an impact on other players while you are absent from your computer. Your character should not profit while you are not playing the game; the same reason botting isn't allowed.
Why is this such a difficult concept for some of you?
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Shadow Confederation
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Posted - 2011.07.10 07:21:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Drake Draconis on 10/07/2011 07:23:23 Edited by: Drake Draconis on 10/07/2011 07:22:20
Originally by: Miang Hawaa
Originally by: Toovhon Maybe you wouldn't be afraid of 'AFK cloakies' if you were not AFKing in your space. Employ a combat air patrol while you mine. Have a player constantly watching the overview and scanning as you go about your business. Swap players in and out of this as the tedium eventually leads to lapses in concentration. Have your own cloaked ships standing by nearby so a cloaked attacker never knows exactly what he faces. Etc, etc.
My point being there are ways to considerably reduce the risk you face. Having to do these things is the price you pay for being inside unsecured space. Adapt or die.
Such mobilization is absurd. Why not also have a supercap fleet waiting on standby while you rat too? It is equally ridiculous, considering the effort exerted by the enemy: none.
All this just because some dip****, at precisely zero risk to himself, is somehow allowed to continuously apply tactical pressure while he isn't even present at the keyboard. Your character should not have an impact on other players while you are absent from your computer. Your character should not profit while you are not playing the game; the same reason botting isn't allowed.
Why is this such a difficult concept for some of you?
It's called using your head... tactically speaking.... amongst other reasons (feel free to use your imagination ladies and gentlemen)
You don't need a supercap fleet....just a modest simple PVP fleet of 5 to 8 ships ready to go at a moments notice.... and you keep on your guard and keep your eyes open.
If you want to mine in perfect peace and harmony with the carebear gods then go to high sec and stfu.... because everyone already knows this and we all have done it... hell go to WHS. No Local means you won't know anyway!
Obviously you haven't... that's for sure.
I've been on the receiving end and the giving end of AFK Cloaking.... its not that big of a bloody deal that you make it out to be.
Your just crying like a baby because you don't like getting at
Stop whining... and stop being lazy.
Answering everyone's arguments with "You don't understand", "your dumb" isn't going to help either. |
Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2011.07.10 07:21:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 10/07/2011 07:22:08
Originally by: Miang Hawaa
All this just because some dip****, at precisely zero risk to himself, is somehow allowed to continuously apply tactical pressure while he isn't even present at the keyboard. Your character should not have an impact on other players while you are absent from your computer.
And the problem is what exactly? The neutral entering system does face exactly the same dilemma, he doesnt know if the people in station are present at the keyboard or not, or if they even are in station or cloaked up somewhere.
These people continually apply tactical pressure without being at the keyboard, at precisely zero risk to themselves. I'm afraid your logic does fall flat on its face, too bad. |
Toovhon
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Posted - 2011.07.10 07:22:00 -
[20]
Keep crying and failing to adapt (in ways that are not even very hard to manage), or stop whinging and be proactive. The choice is yours. I wish you'd gone with the later myself (if only to get you to shut up), but of well... |
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Miang Hawaa
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Posted - 2011.07.10 07:25:00 -
[21]
Quote:
Sure....says the alt toon whose too blinded by rage to see past his immaturity.
You made a categorically stupid statement. Sorry that bothers you. |
Toovhon
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Posted - 2011.07.10 07:29:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Miang Hawaa Everyone who points out simple ways I can avoid a single player from unduly bothering me is stupid! Wahhh!
O***... |
Miang Hawaa
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Posted - 2011.07.10 07:33:00 -
[23]
Quote:
And the problem is what exactly? The neutral entering system does face exactly the same dilemma, he doesnt know if the people in station are present at the keyboard or not, or if they even are in station or cloaked up somewhere.
These people continually apply tactical pressure without being at the keyboard, at precisely zero risk to themselves. I'm afraid your logic does fall flat on its face, too bad.
This is the first counter argument in this thread that actually makes some sense. The difference, however, is that the 'blues' in the system have sovereignty. They are there because it is the space they've earned. They aren't afk because it provides a tactical pvp advantage, nor are they specifically afk to put pvp pressure on opponents. |
Miang Hawaa
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Posted - 2011.07.10 07:41:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Toovhon Edited by: Toovhon on 10/07/2011 07:30:21
Originally by: Miang Hawaa Everyone who points out simple ways I can avoid a single player from unduly bothering me is stupid! Wahhh!
Ok...
Because mobilizing a fleet of multiple players just so a single player can do some ratting is a simple and easy solution. Especially when the enemy has been cloaked in a system all day and, for all you know, will remain afk till dt. "Hey guys, I feel like making a little isk, how about you all spend the next couple hours sitting in a fleet one system over and doing nothing else, just in case this guy stops being afk. Thanks." |
Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2011.07.10 07:41:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Miang Hawaa
This is the first counter argument in this thread that actually makes some sense. The difference, however, is that the 'blues' in the system have sovereignty. They are there because it is the space they've earned. They aren't afk because it provides a tactical pvp advantage, nor are they specifically afk to put pvp pressure on opponents.
If they intend to put tactical pressure on neutrals or not is not important, fact is they do. The same applies to the cloaker, it might not even be his intention.
For example, I used to ninja-npc to get my sec status fixed. Did this in a populated system, and locals obviously complained. I didnt mean to disrupt their activity at all, it was just them being too chicken to undock with a single neutral in system. The cloak was necessary to be safe in very hostile space.
Fact is, the problem is not the cloaked neutral being afk, or the docked blues being afk. The problem is they all show up in the local chat.
Local needs to be removed, and this whole problem goes away. Since CCP appears to be on this same page as well, we'll have our solution at some point, hopefully soon. |
Toovhon
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Posted - 2011.07.10 08:28:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Miang Hawaa
Originally by: Toovhon Edited by: Toovhon on 10/07/2011 07:30:21
Originally by: Miang Hawaa Everyone who points out simple ways I can avoid a single player from unduly bothering me is stupid! Wahhh!
Ok...
Because mobilizing a fleet of multiple players just so a single player can do some ratting is a simple and easy solution. Especially when the enemy has been cloaked in a system all day and, for all you know, will remain afk till dt. "Hey guys, I feel like making a little isk, how about you all spend the next couple hours sitting in a fleet one system over and doing nothing else, just in case this guy stops being afk. Thanks."
So adapt. Group up. Work together. Start being proactive. There's no reason you can't make a profit while minimising risk. Or perhaps you just prefer whinging...
Seriously - if you're unable to cope with a lone cloaked ship in system, you need to move back to highsec. Because you clearly don't have the organisational ability necessary to survive in less secure space.
Alternatively advise me where your system is, and I'll fly my stealth bomber on over and park it there a couple weeks :-D |
Miang Hawaa
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Posted - 2011.07.10 08:35:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Toovhon
Originally by: Miang Hawaa
Originally by: Toovhon Edited by: Toovhon on 10/07/2011 07:30:21
Originally by: Miang Hawaa Everyone who points out simple ways I can avoid a single player from unduly bothering me is stupid! Wahhh!
Ok...
Because mobilizing a fleet of multiple players just so a single player can do some ratting is a simple and easy solution. Especially when the enemy has been cloaked in a system all day and, for all you know, will remain afk till dt. "Hey guys, I feel like making a little isk, how about you all spend the next couple hours sitting in a fleet one system over and doing nothing else, just in case this guy stops being afk. Thanks."
So adapt. Group up. Work together. Start being proactive. There's no reason you can't make a profit while minimising risk. Or perhaps you just prefer whinging...
Seriously - if you're unable to cope with a lone cloaked ship in system, you need to move back to highsec. Because you clearly don't have the organisational ability necessary to survive in less secure space.
Alternatively advise me where your system is, and I'll fly my stealth bomber on over and park it there a couple weeks :-D
If it was just a lone cloaked ship I had to worry about, it would not be a problem for me. The problem is whether or not they have a cyno equipped. |
Juliette DuBois
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Posted - 2011.07.10 11:53:00 -
[28]
You don`t seem to understand. 0.0 is supposed to be worthless and cause endless streams of tears from foolish people who hold it. Until you wise up and move to NPC space you will keep suffering from this wonderful mechanic. |
prooon
Wombats in Combat
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Posted - 2011.07.10 13:17:00 -
[29]
yumyum, delicious tears! |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.10 13:51:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Miang Hawaa If it was just a lone cloaked ship I had to worry about, it would not be a problem for me. The problem is whether or not they have a cyno equipped.
If he has a cyno, surely he needs to be active to use it. Plus, many cyno situations can be negated with a jammer.
The thing is, your problem isn't cloaks, but local intel channel. You're misreading the instant intel it's giving you and making bad judgements based on your misreading.
Without a change to local, cloaks should remain as they are now. |
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Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.10 15:44:00 -
[31]
Yup, another "I DON'T LEIK CLOAKS BECUZ I CANNOT FIGURE DEMZ OUT, WHY THIS GAME NO EASY LIKE WoW WAA WAA WAA" thread reaches its climax.
See you all at the next one o/ Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER SO THAT I CAN HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD |
Miang Hawaa
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Posted - 2011.07.10 20:03:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Lykouleon Yup, another "I DON'T LEIK CLOAKS BECUZ I CANNOT FIGURE DEMZ OUT, WHY THIS GAME NO EASY LIKE WoW WAA WAA WAA" thread reaches its climax.
See you all at the next one o/
What precisely do I not 'get' about cloaking mechanics?
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Toovhon
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Posted - 2011.07.10 20:27:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Miang Hawaa
Originally by: Lykouleon Yup, another "I DON'T LEIK CLOAKS BECUZ I CANNOT FIGURE DEMZ OUT, WHY THIS GAME NO EASY LIKE WoW WAA WAA WAA" thread reaches its climax.
See you all at the next one o/
What precisely do I not 'get' about cloaking mechanics?
Everything? That's it's no exploit and you're the one failing? :-D -- Frog blast the vent core! |
Miang Hawaa
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Posted - 2011.07.10 20:34:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Toovhon
Originally by: Miang Hawaa
Originally by: Lykouleon Yup, another "I DON'T LEIK CLOAKS BECUZ I CANNOT FIGURE DEMZ OUT, WHY THIS GAME NO EASY LIKE WoW WAA WAA WAA" thread reaches its climax.
See you all at the next one o/
What precisely do I not 'get' about cloaking mechanics?
Everything? That's it's no exploit and you're the one failing? :-D
Wrong. Try again.
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.07.10 20:51:00 -
[35]
The problem isn't the AFK cloaker, he can't do anything to you. The problem is Local telling you he is there at all.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.10 21:03:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Val'Dore The problem isn't the AFK cloaker, he can't do anything to you. The problem is Local telling you he is there at all.
Val, they don't want to hear facts, they simply want risk free PvE.
inb4 "but there's no risk in cloaking and going AFK for hours" answering with yes, when cloaked everyone is safe until the cloak is deactivated, then everyone is at risk. But without local, AFKing is pointless as a psychological weapon.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.07.10 21:04:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Val'Dore The problem isn't the AFK cloaker, he can't do anything to you. The problem is Local telling you he is there at all.
Val, they don't want to hear facts, they simply want risk free PvE.
inb4 "but there's no risk in cloaking and going AFK for hours" answering with yes, when cloaked everyone is safe until the cloak is deactivated, then everyone is at risk. But without local, AFKing is pointless as a psychological weapon.
The Carebear infection is spreading... even CCP has it now.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.10 21:13:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Val'Dore
Originally by: Mag's Val, they don't want to hear facts, they simply want risk free PvE.
inb4 "but there's no risk in cloaking and going AFK for hours" answering with yes, when cloaked everyone is safe until the cloak is deactivated, then everyone is at risk. But without local, AFKing is pointless as a psychological weapon.
The Carebear infection is spreading... even CCP has it now.
I kind of agree although there is a small chance things may get better, but I'm not holding my breath.
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Depran Depran
AFK Cloakers i 0,0: No change needed. It is a Black Ops strategy and active Intelligenge gathering about the system and its player compositon, needed for later attack strategies. Should we likewise suggest to abollish gatecamps in 0,0 space, just because it seriously harms my welth? ?
>> I think gatecamps are fine. ItÆs one of the more tangible ways for alliances and corps to protect their areas geographically and while a lot of people donÆt see it as the most exciting form of PVP, itÆs as legitimate as any other. Making money wasnÆt meant to be done in complete safety. If anything, IÆm a little afraid that EVE has gotten soft; WeÆre too used to playing in safety, and IÆd be more likely to cut some wires in that safety net than add more.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Toovhon
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Posted - 2011.07.10 21:27:00 -
[39]
They'll keep crying and whinging unless they feel 100% safe. How are they failing so epically to get that low and null sec is not supposed to be safe? :-D -- Frog blast the vent core! |
Miang Hawaa
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Posted - 2011.07.10 21:52:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Toovhon They'll keep crying and whinging unless they feel 100% safe. How are they failing so epically to get that low and null sec is not supposed to be safe? :-D
It's cute that you ***gots continuously repeat this, but nobody in this thread has implied that nullsec is supposed to be safe.
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Miang Hawaa
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Posted - 2011.07.10 21:54:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Val'Dore The problem isn't the AFK cloaker, he can't do anything to you. The problem is Local telling you he is there at all.
Val, they don't want to hear facts, they simply want risk free PvE.
inb4 "but there's no risk in cloaking and going AFK for hours" answering with yes, when cloaked everyone is safe until the cloak is deactivated, then everyone is at risk. But without local, AFKing is pointless as a psychological weapon.
Because covops don't exist.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.10 22:17:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Miang Hawaa
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Val'Dore The problem isn't the AFK cloaker, he can't do anything to you. The problem is Local telling you he is there at all.
Val, they don't want to hear facts, they simply want risk free PvE.
inb4 "but there's no risk in cloaking and going AFK for hours" answering with yes, when cloaked everyone is safe until the cloak is deactivated, then everyone is at risk. But without local, AFKing is pointless as a psychological weapon.
Because covops don't exist.
To be understood, you should at least make a coherent post that makes sense. Then people will understand what you are talking about.
You may as well have just replied "Purple Monkey Socks" tbh.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.10 22:18:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Miang Hawaa
Explain what counter measures you can employ against this.
I can think of 3:
* HTFU;
* Use D-Scan to see if they have probes out;
* Remove local; fixed. :)
-- "All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
Lakuma
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Posted - 2011.07.10 23:29:00 -
[44]
For all the fear there is of afk cloakers...
...I really can't see why people fear them. Yes they have a tactical advantage with zero risk being unable to be scanned. But the fact is, you shouldn't be working in lowsec/nullsec without protection anyways.
If you see FIVE people in local and can't find any of them, yeah they may be afk but you'd still be holed up because they may be a gang waiting on you.
If you see ONE person in local and can't find them, grab a buddy to watch your back. Or five. Hell, have two of them use battleships to mine - the guy, if an active enemy, won't actually know what you have equipped and will leave you alone.
Point is: sorry, afk cloaking causes stress but it's not like they are an invincible hammer of doom waiting to smash on you. Local behaves this way for a reason - you can guess what kind of threat there is just by the number of people. It's also a tactical move by enemies: we'll post five or six alts in an enemy industrial system sometimes just to make them think we have unscannable tengus waiting to hit them. They've done the same to us I'm sure.
As will all things low and nullsec - BUDDY SYSTEM YOU NUMBSKULL - if you're afraid or unsure, bring friends! If local explodes in a frenzy of people, gtfo and hole up, local is nice like that. You people make this a bigger problem than it really is. Can you imagine what WH would be like if it had a local? Nobody would go out there hardly if they all thought like you! If you're trying to help out your corp/alliance on off hours and solo, welcome to the world of low/null: it's not safe, don't solo it if you're afraid to lose it. Rule #1 of EVE - don't fly what you can't afford to lose.
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Roonia
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Posted - 2011.07.10 23:43:00 -
[45]
Um i think a lot of people are missing the point.
Its not that the AFK cloaker can do something or not, its because you dont know if he is AFK and it makes a HUGE difference if he is AFK. There are lots of things a cloaky can do to you.
NOBODY should have unkillable and un-findable status for days on end without EVER needing to leave a system. They are invincible, you cant do **** against them, thats the whole point. And they can keep on being invincible forever and just be a pain in the ass forever and there isnt **** you can do against them...did i say that already?
Im sorry but having some guy sit in a system for weeks on end, even FOREVER without anyone being able to find him is ****ed up, period. If you guys cannot see how wrong that is, get a ****in lobotomy.
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Lakuma
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Posted - 2011.07.11 00:25:00 -
[46]
Quote: NOBODY should have unkillable and un-findable status for days on end without EVER needing to leave a system. They are invincible, you cant do **** against them, thats the whole point. And they can keep on being invincible forever and just be a pain in the ass forever and there isnt **** you can do against them...did i say that already?
Take WH space then - you can do the exact same thing there and never know it, yet that person is still 'invincible'. You have to admit that the only reason an afk cloaker is a problem is because you actually know they are there. What about hisec? Local shows them, you know they're from a wardec corp, but you can't find them?
The fact is that you can't do anything about it, as you've already stated, and you're not MEANT to be able to do anything about it. Sec space has the advantage of local - you at least know they are there, in wh you don't even know who is watching you unless you constantly scan for probes too. Popping a d-scan every so often is not that difficult, nor is acquiring a few friends to watch your back (FEW - like three tops).
You have yet to provide a concrete reason why having friends, d-scan, or the EVE Rule #1 doesn't cover why afk cloaking is ok. I won't even touch the fact afk cloaking really only directly affects two things: people too paranoid and weak to do anything about it, and botters - which are really just the first thing. If you want to solo in low/null, you'll have to accept that afk cloakers are there. You are misinterpreting the usefulness of local as a stress-inducing problem, not intel that tips you off to potential attackers.
As a side note - it's not griefing, consider EVE in general, it doesn't violate EULA, and that is one more account making money for CCP doing nothing at all (or maybe plotting your demise, both work really). Cloaks are designed for a reason - mess with them and you further degrade black ops (if even possible) as well as severely harm the intel-gathering side of the game.
TL;DR You haven't provided a concrete reason why having friends, d-scan, or EVE Rule #1 don't handle cloaked ships, afk or not, nor have you explained how they are more of a threat when viewable in local as opposed to being 'unseen' at all in WH space.
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Miang Hawaa
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Posted - 2011.07.11 01:11:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Miang Hawaa
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Val'Dore The problem isn't the AFK cloaker, he can't do anything to you. The problem is Local telling you he is there at all.
Val, they don't want to hear facts, they simply want risk free PvE.
inb4 "but there's no risk in cloaking and going AFK for hours" answering with yes, when cloaked everyone is safe until the cloak is deactivated, then everyone is at risk. But without local, AFKing is pointless as a psychological weapon.
Because covops don't exist.
To be understood, you should at least make a coherent post that makes sense. Then people will understand what you are talking about.
You may as well have just replied "Purple Monkey Socks" tbh.
When even simple sarcasm flies over your head, I have to wonder how you managed to even get the game installed. Stay in school, kid.
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Lakuma
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Posted - 2011.07.11 01:17:00 -
[48]
Quote: When even simple sarcasm flies over your head, I have to wonder how you managed to even get the game installed. Stay in school, kid.
I cannot help but notice you only respond to the insults and trolls in this thread, not those constructively arguing why afk cloaking isn't a problem. If you want to be taken seriously, start by responding to your actual opposition. By avoiding the valid points made and simply insulting the insulters, your proving yourself only as a troll.
Explain how this is different from WH space where you can't see them at all. Also explain why having friends, d-scan for probes, and the inherent rule of "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" isn't enough for handling afk cloakers, be they one or several?
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Carmen Martino
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Posted - 2011.07.11 01:46:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Miang Hawaa This blatant exploit has gone on long enough. Players should not be allowed to have a tactical advantage while afk at any point. This defines exploit.
Everyone knows it is a problem. It has been for a very long time. Why has nothing been done?
What is being done about this frustrating problem?
If I had one tear drop from every whiny ***** who started one of these threads I would never need to buy lube again. This is far from an exploit. Get over it and maybe pay attention while you bot.
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Toovhon
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Posted - 2011.07.11 05:41:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Miang Hawaa
Originally by: Toovhon They'll keep crying and whinging unless they feel 100% safe. How are they failing so epically to get that low and null sec is not supposed to be safe? :-D
It's cute that you ***gots continuously repeat this, but nobody in this thread has implied that nullsec is supposed to be safe.
So you're saying you went into unsecured space knowing it wasn't safe, and now you're whinging because... unsafe things happened?
Sorry, am I missing something here? Is their some kind of bizarro logic I need to comprehend, before I can understand why you're crying about low/null sec's lack of safety, when you knew it to be unsafe in the first place? -- Frog blast the vent core! |
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Shadow Confederation
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Posted - 2011.07.11 06:24:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Drake Draconis on 11/07/2011 06:25:08 I suspect even if local was removed this OP would still be *****ing about it even then.
QFTW: Quote: So you're saying you went into unsecured space knowing it wasn't safe, and now you're whinging because... unsafe things happened? Sorry, am I missing something here? Is their some kind of bizarro logic I need to comprehend, before I can understand why you're crying about low/null sec's lack of safety, when you knew it to be unsafe in the first place?
Sums it up nicely. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.11 07:37:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Mag''s on 11/07/2011 07:37:52
Originally by: Miang Hawaa
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Miang Hawaa Because covops don't exist.
To be understood, you should at least make a coherent post that makes sense. Then people will understand what you are talking about.
You may as well have just replied "Purple Monkey Socks" tbh.
When even simple sarcasm flies over your head, I have to wonder how you managed to even get the game installed. Stay in school, kid.
For sarcasm to work, it needs to be a sharply focused ironic retort. You simply added words pertaining to the topic without any focus placed upon it.
Do you even have an argument, or are you now only going to show how poorly you use the English language?
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Bo Tosh
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Posted - 2011.07.11 07:51:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Toovhon Maybe you wouldn't be afraid of 'AFK cloakies' if you were not AFKing in your space. Employ a combat air patrol while you mine. Have a player constantly watching the overview and scanning as you go about your business. Swap players in and out of this as the tedium eventually leads to lapses in concentration. Have your own cloaked ships standing by nearby so a cloaked attacker never knows exactly what he faces. Etc, etc.
My point being there are ways to considerably reduce the risk you face. Having to do these things is the price you pay for being inside unsecured space. Adapt or die.
This.
Its not a hard thing to do and if your corp or alliance isn't organized enough to have this sort of system running I suggest you find another. AFK cloaking is not a major problem and has the beneficial side effect of keeping bots out of action which I feel more than makes up for any minor annoyance it may cause those of a more fragile disposition.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.07.11 07:55:00 -
[54]
Re: B-flat's answer (suitable for wind instruments and generates a Soundwave .. get it?!? ): I'd like for the safety net to lose quite a few strings as well, but for all 'sides' as the state of unsafe for one easily translates into safe for another (most cases).
- Make cloaks probeable (see prev. post). - Remove local in player sovereign space (NPC null should be excluded to keep the allegedly superior PvP environment it has) - Tweak scanner mechanics to avoid carpal tunnel brought on by paranoid scan-spam. - Allow owner greater control over local (ex. non-blues always show) by sacrificing other tactical tools like jammers/bridges. - Etc.
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Eperor
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Posted - 2011.07.11 08:13:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Lakuma
Quote: When even simple sarcasm flies over your head, I have to wonder how you managed to even get the game installed. Stay in school, kid.
I cannot help but notice you only respond to the insults and trolls in this thread, not those constructively arguing why afk cloaking isn't a problem. If you want to be taken seriously, start by responding to your actual opposition. By avoiding the valid points made and simply insulting the insulters, your proving yourself only as a troll.
Explain how this is different from WH space where you can't see them at all. Also explain why having friends, d-scan for probes, and the inherent rule of "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" isn't enough for handling afk cloakers, be they one or several?
WH space difrence: 1. trafic not so big and not posible big one cov ops cantt do a ****, suport gang can do a so Afk clouckers are not there to sit on ader ppl nerfs. 2. IN WH space not posible cyno in reinforcments form ader systems so ussles to afk scouting and wait for easy target and posible protect your self from small gangs with boddys.
so thos 2 difrences its verry big between Wh space and usual 0.0 space if you wish remove local from game than you need td remove gates to and remove cov ops cynos to.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.07.11 10:33:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Miang Hawaa
This is the first counter argument in this thread that actually makes some sense. The difference, however, is that the 'blues' in the system have sovereignty. They are there because it is the space they've earned.
Ownership of a system in Eve is determined by the barrels of your guns, not meaningless words in the corner of your screen. The system belongs to the people in space, not the ones cowering in station.
If you want to use their system's resources, I suggest that you mail one of them for a tenancy agreement.
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Jon Helldrunk
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Posted - 2011.07.11 11:13:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Miang Hawaa
Quote: What blatant exploit? I see no blatant exploit.
It is tragic that I have to spell this out for you.
An enemy's presence in a system causes numerous problems for locals. In general, people will not do anything outside sit in a pvp fleet when neutrals or reds, even just one, is present in a system. This means no isk generating of any kind, including mining and ratting without significant risk. Complexes are out of the question for fear that the enemy happens to have probing capabilities. Even well tanked ships are potentially at risk because we don't know if the enemy has a cyno.
So their mere presence can halt isk production in a system. Here comes the exploit: they can have this major tactical ability without even being near their computer. Just leaving your character logged in and cloaked while you're at work is exploitation of game mechanics when it can so drastically affect so many people.
Quote: I see no problem here but your inability to adapt.
Explain what counter measures you can employ against this.
turn off local chat.
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Biomass MeNOW
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Posted - 2011.07.11 11:28:00 -
[58]
It's been said and said again... there needs to be one class of ship, a frigate, with negligible combat capacity, with just one ability: Scanning down things that are cloaked.
It won't be able to warp directly to them, just 'in their vicinity', and will have to continue it's snooping anti-cloak-warfare to detect the ship's sig, then approach it, decloak it, and do whatever it needs to do. It needs to have the ability to overtake a cloaked ship at speed while it, itself, is cloaked (it cannot scan 'uncloaked' except for uncloaked things). Once it is within decloak range both ships are exposed, and a covert ship may be able to then destroy it.
An AFK cloaked ship will be easy prey, and will rid the system of the metagaming tards who delight in disrupting all activity while they're at work, asleep, or otherwise screwing off elsewhere. An active pilot will usually be warping around, scoping out juicy targets, or at the very least alert enough to respond when they're decloaked. Eve wants active pilots, not AFK macros (and AFK cloaking is the same as Macro activity, IMO).
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foksieloy
Minmatar Rockets ponies and rainbows
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Posted - 2011.07.11 12:19:00 -
[59]
5/10, average troll. _______________________ The best thing in EvE is Barrage M. |
Ya Huei
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Posted - 2011.07.11 12:25:00 -
[60]
Originally by: prooon yumyum, delicious tears!
Exactly what i was thinking.
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Portmanteau
Gallente CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2011.07.11 13:18:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Miang Hawaa
Originally by: Toovhon Edited by: Toovhon on 10/07/2011 07:30:21
Originally by: Miang Hawaa Everyone who points out simple ways I can avoid a single player from unduly bothering me is stupid! Wahhh!
Ok...
Because mobilizing a fleet of multiple players just so a single player can do some ratting is a simple and easy solution. Especially when the enemy has been cloaked in a system all day and, for all you know, will remain afk till dt. "Hey guys, I feel like making a little isk, how about you all spend the next couple hours sitting in a fleet one system over and doing nothing else, just in case this guy stops being afk. Thanks."
So go rat in pairs or threes, if you can't cope wit 1 freakin' ship ina gang of 3 you are pretty useless, ofc there's the risk of a hotdrop, but then I would say this is far less likely than a quick gank attempt on the ratters and well, it is zero zero, it's not supposed to be risk free despite the efforts of nullbears suchas urself trying to make it so |
Toovhon
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Posted - 2011.07.11 13:32:00 -
[62]
Organising a group and combat support is beyond these whingers. So far as I can work out, they prefer whinging to being proactive and doing something so they can still be active in their space, while threatened by the ominous lone AFK cloakie :-D |
Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.07.11 15:21:00 -
[63]
The AFK cloaker is the only counter to bots.
The only person who is reasonably affected by an AFK cloaker is a botter.
Every other person is capable of asking for help from corp/alliance if the cloaker turns out to be active.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Loki Sei
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Posted - 2011.07.11 16:44:00 -
[64]
WH space is not like null space cause you actually have to work to find things to do, you don't have an unlimited supply of things to do. Upgraded null offers belt rats, instant respawning combat sites, and grav sites galore. Therefore it attracts those who only want the easiest way to generate the most ISK for their wallets, and want to do so with the least amount of risk to themselves.
The need to use renters to pay the bills have made a new class of people in null that have done nothing but pay a bill to gain access to "their" systems. However, the "landlord does not give a rats arse about their safety, and makes no effort to hunt them down on the way in or out. The landlords care and defend only a small section of null now.
On the other side of the coin, null makes it very easy to "find" people, since belts are on overview, and all the combat sites can now be found using an onboard scanner that can be used while cloaked.
Add in the fact that its impossible for an active player to get any element of surprise since everyone in local knows they have arrived before they even finish their jump into the system.
So we have people living in null that do so only to generate the maximum isk possible and who are risk adverse, we have no ability to attack them without them knowing we are there, and this interferes with their vision of the sandbox as a mass influx to their wallet.
At this time, with perfect local intel on who is around, there is no way to for a small gang to effectively disrupt your operations without sitting in system 23.5/7 and most active players have no desire to do so.
If you want to nerf cloaks then tell me what you are willing to give up so that the scales are not tipped solely in favor of all the null sec carebears.
1) Give up instant local. Delay it 5 minutes. Oh you don't want that because then you won't get notice of a huge hot drop or some other whine. You already get a cyno on overview anywhere in system, is that not enough?
2) Make an ACTIVE module on your ship that is a high slot. Active module will, when active, tell you all the ships in system, but will also show your location on overview, same as a cyno beacon. Kind of like an active sonar, you give up your position by blasting a crap ton of energy into space, but you get to know whats in system. Heck even make a ship with the ability to use this module and pin down the location of a ship with skills, what ever you like, but you give up your position by doing so.
3) Make a "probe" that can be anchored anywhere, is visible on overview, and will tell you approximate ship class of anything passing within 200km of it cloaked or not. Make it fairly easy to destroy and costly. Can anchor that near a gate (or wormhole) and then you will know when something comes in system. However, it can not be anchored in asteroid belts of combat sites as there are to many things to interfere with the signal.
So really if you want to nerf cloaky ships, which is the ONLY counter to BOTS and all you skittish little carebear mice that run to your burrows everytime local goes +1, then give all of us PVP players a way to effectively hunt you when we are active.
I am ready to entertain your ideas of how to rebalance this game mechanism that does not further tip the scales in favor of the null sec carebear mouse.
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Cendric De'Credsiu
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Posted - 2011.07.11 19:47:00 -
[65]
Quote: AFK Cloakers i 0,0: No change needed. It is a Black Ops strategy and active Intelligenge gathering about the system and its player compositon, needed for later attack strategies. Should we likewise suggest to abollish gatecamps in 0,0 space, just because it seriously harms my welth? ?
That right there details why AFK cloaking is an issue, I have no issues with somebody coming into my system making past the gate camp or what ever and scouting the system and disrupting activities in that system. That part is a valid tactic and valuable intell gathering source.
The fact that they can gather this intel and disrupt activities without playing the game is where the issue is at. I don't want to see the cloak mechanics them selves changed as it allows for the tactic to be used. But being able to use that tactic without actually being at the keyboard is effectively the same as using a BoT. You are gaining a tactical advantage (by knowing what is in system and when) there by allowing you to plan an op when there will be little to no resistance, costing folks ISK by lowering productivity, and disrupting or even preventing the upgrade of a system or maintenance of that system level for industry or military areas. All this without being at your keyboard or playing the game. You do it perfect safety with zero risk to yourself, your ship, or your wallet.
To be at your keyboard and be able to do all that is fine and doesn't need to change.
To be afk and do all of that is what needs to change. As it stands right now that person that afk cloaks is able to gather the intell ect. He disrupts mining for maybe a couple hours or so till everybody figures out that he is afk. Then we all resume normal activities. It still hurts our wallets and we pay attention to scans and such a lot more and will usually have a few ships for protection but that's it. And yes once you hit indy 4 or 5 loosing a couple mining ships to trade out for protection can cause you to loose that industry level.
When a cloak comes into the system it should disrupt activities and cause all the above effects to there fullest, right now it doesn't.
There should be a danger, it should disrupt my activities and it should make me think twice about doing what it is I was about to do.
Simply put, providing a way to prevent the person from going afk without risking his ship and his pod provides advantage to both sides.
We know that person is active therefore more effectively disrupting our activities and causing damage to the industry and military levels of a system and causing a bigger hit to our wallets. It causes us to sit in our PoS or leave the system allowing the cloaker to find and bookmark our PoS for a future attack. It allows him to more effectively gain the intel for targets when or if he has a fleet jump into system. Causing us to boost our PoS defense and actually think about strategic defense.
By preventing the afk it allows us to try and keep those industry and military levels higher and allowing us to more effectively mine or rat when the player is not in system as normal. It gives us better experience at setting up PoS defense and fleet defense.
And most importantly it might actually cause more fleet engagements as systems get upgraded to level 5 industry and folks try to stop it or force it to go back down. Or make systems more prone to traffic therefore generating more fights.
All that by simply putting in a mechanic that causes the cloak to drop if you don't click yes I want to stay cloaked in a random spot on the screen every couple of mins. You still can't be found, your still going to be safe, you just now have to be at your keyboard to do it.
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CaptainFalcon07
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Posted - 2011.07.11 20:06:00 -
[66]
If you think AFK cloaking sucks, wait until you go and live in a WH. 0.0 carebears have local to give them intel and to actually let them know that someone is in the system. Wormholes don't and people there do fine.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.11 20:28:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Cendric De'Credsiu Lots of words....
You haven't answered my question yet.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
|
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:46:00 -
[68]
Originally by: CaptainFalcon07 If you think AFK cloaking sucks, wait until you go and live in a WH. 0.0 carebears have local to give them intel and to actually let them know that someone is in the system. Wormholes don't and people there do fine.
Worms don't exactly have the revolving doors that normal space does and it is very easy for a large enough expeditionary force to keep tabs on all comers or even prevent anything that may pose a threat from ever entering by collapsing the holes.
So yeah, great comparison, my dear
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Loki Sei
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Posted - 2011.07.11 21:54:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: CaptainFalcon07 If you think AFK cloaking sucks, wait until you go and live in a WH. 0.0 carebears have local to give them intel and to actually let them know that someone is in the system. Wormholes don't and people there do fine.
Worms don't exactly have the revolving doors that normal space does and it is very easy for a large enough expeditionary force to keep tabs on all comers or even prevent anything that may pose a threat from ever entering by collapsing the holes.
So yeah, great comparison, my dear
Right, an incoming K162 followed by several cloaky t3's is easy to counter. Please, you know you can't live without your instant intel Local, and that is really the crux of the issue. There is no balance in 0.0 when you know the second someone comes into system and you all scurry like roaches when a light comes on.
So again, how much of your safety net "local intel" are you willing to give up to be able to address the afk cloaky?
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Assassin126
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.11 22:02:00 -
[70]
gota love the rage and fail, also how will probing them help? it takes several seconds to get to the target after getting a scan hit, in that time a probed ship will be a fair distance from the warp in point making it next to impossible to catch anyway. Here is my suggestion: deal with it, you can do the same to the enemy as well so its no exploit I have just updated my torpedoes with a new windows operating system guidance system, prepare to feel my wrath!! oh... my torpedoes are coming back towards me |
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Cendric De'Credsiu
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Posted - 2011.07.11 23:18:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Cendric De''Credsiu on 11/07/2011 23:29:41
Quote: So again, how much of your safety net "local intel" are you willing to give up to be able to address the afk cloaky?
This is not the issue, the fact that they are there is not the issue. At no time should any player be able to gain an advantage of the other players without being at there computer. That's what needs to be fixed with the AFK cloaking. The fact that you gain a tactical advantage without playing.
Botting gives you an advantage without you having to be there to control your character.
AFK Cloaking gives you an advantage without you having to be there to control your character. You get intel on a system, see who's there and who comes and goes outa the system, ect all without needing to actually play the game. Its just like botting and going out a mining. The only difference is that you dont need to use a third party program to do it.
That's the issue that needs to be addressed, by removing the simple fact that you can do it while afk as I have stated previously it allows for both sides to have an advantage. We still wont be able to find you, we still wont be able to kill you. The mechanics of the cloak do not change. The only thing that changes is you now can't just come into the system gather the intel or other items without being at your keyboard.
Personally that's all I want to see change, I want you at your keyboard to disrupt my productivity or gather intell on my systems. I honestly don't care if I can find you and kill you. I just want you at your keyboard and actually playing to gain any advantage perceived or real in my systems. You want to take my industry level from 5 to 4 by disrupting my activities great I have no problems with you doing it as long as your at your keyboard doing it. You want to scout out my system and find out the best times to attack when resistance will be light or not there, great fine just play the game to do it. You want to find my PoS and take it out great just play the game while you do it. That's all I want to see change.
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Baaldor
In Igne Morim
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Posted - 2011.07.11 23:38:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Cendric De'Credsiu At no time should any player be able to gain an advantage of the other players without being at there computer.
The only advantage, is the one given by the the guy turtling in the station or posting "AFK Cloaking is not fair" threads.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.12 00:01:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Cendric De'Credsiu This is not the issue, the fact that they are there is not the issue. At no time should any player be able to gain an advantage of the other players without being at there computer. That's what needs to be fixed with the AFK cloaking. The fact that you gain a tactical advantage without playing.
Botting gives you an advantage without you having to be there to control your character.
AFK Cloaking gives you an advantage without you having to be there to control your character. You get intel on a system, see who's there and who comes and goes outa the system, ect all without needing to actually play the game. Its just like botting and going out a mining. The only difference is that you dont need to use a third party program to do it.
That's the issue that needs to be addressed, by removing the simple fact that you can do it while afk as I have stated previously it allows for both sides to have an advantage. We still wont be able to find you, we still wont be able to kill you. The mechanics of the cloak do not change. The only thing that changes is you now can't just come into the system gather the intel or other items without being at your keyboard.
Personally that's all I want to see change, I want you at your keyboard to disrupt my productivity or gather intell on my systems. I honestly don't care if I can find you and kill you. I just want you at your keyboard and actually playing to gain any advantage perceived or real in my systems. You want to take my industry level from 5 to 4 by disrupting my activities great I have no problems with you doing it as long as your at your keyboard doing it. You want to scout out my system and find out the best times to attack when resistance will be light or not there, great fine just play the game to do it. You want to find my PoS and take it out great just play the game while you do it. That's all I want to see change.
How do they gather intel whilst AFK? What other items to they gather whilst AFK? How do they disrupt your activities whilst AFK?
I'd like honest, factual answers please.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Cendric De'Credsiu
|
Posted - 2011.07.12 00:10:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Cendric De''Credsiu on 12/07/2011 00:19:12 So what your saying is that you should be able to go afk, record logs of local chat, see what ships come in and out of the system via fraps. See when the system is active and not active and be able to plan an attack all without needing to be at your computer to grab that intell.
By changing it to where you can not afk cloak anymore and actually have to be there it allows you to gain better more accurate intell on the system and our response times. It allows you to actually lock down the system for the entire time your on vs a half an hour to an hour. What is better attack a system when there response time is a half an hour or attack that system when the response time is 2 minutes. If your set in the right position you also get to see what kind of ships we field for that defense.
I am not asking that the cloak mechanic change or that we be able to find you. We are asking that it be changed to where you cant just cloak up and walk away from your computer all day and stay safe and gather the intell or cause a drop in production without actually being at your computer.
Quote: How do they gather intel whilst AFK? What other items to they gather whilst AFK? How do they disrupt your activities whilst AFK? I'd like honest, factual answers please.
Intell, if you set it right you can read threw the logs when you come back, if you sit near a gate and use fraps, you can see what ships come in and out. By using fraps you can see how many folks are in local and what the active times are.
Items you of course wont gain any.
Disruption is easy, I dont know if they are afk or not, so rather then risk it and have 10 hulks out with 1 person doing protection, i now have 3 to 4 folks providing protection, this lowers productivity, and if you consider how much ore you have to mine to keep an industry level of 5 or 4 each day, that loss can and most times does mean the loss of that industry level.
If I am going to online a PoS in that system, it would be relativly stupid of me to do so without having protection while it is going up and getting onlined.
Ratting is also affected as we will most times not go out and rat due to the rats warp scraming us. The risk is to great of you having scanned us down and then dropping a cyno and us being unable to get away.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.12 00:12:00 -
[75]
Please answer each question directly.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Loki Sei
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Posted - 2011.07.12 00:16:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Cendric De'Credsiu I am not asking that the cloak mechanic change or that we be able to find you. We are asking that it be changed to where you cant just cloak up and walk away from your computer all day and stay safe and gather the intell or cause a drop in production without actually being at your computer.
Right, and we are just asking that you not be able to sit in your system all day making isk while having perfect intel to be able to run to station every time someone comes within 2 systems of you.
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Lakuma
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Posted - 2011.07.12 00:22:00 -
[77]
I have yet to see answers to why these aren't suitable ways to handle afk cloakers:
D-Scan for probes Have a gang of friends with you to protect you
Also - as far as 'free intel' goes, if they can do it so can you. So your only argument is 'honor playing' - that is that players shouldn't be able to get things easy if they can. Why not send your own cloakers to their systems? Only you are halting operations, not them. You are being REACTIONARY.
Here's another thought - do you operate in only ONE system? Guess what? AFK cloakers can't follow you, what a concept. move next door and mine there. If you're worried about hauling - you should have an escort anyways, so a cloaker won't matter. If you ARE in just one system, afk cloakers are the least of your concerns.
Nullsec and Lowsec is not safe - no you didn't say it was - but you fail to realize how unsafe it is. Yes, it really is that easy to get intel on you so you better be ready when that afk cloaker ends up being a hot drop when you least expect it. Stressful? Only if you make it so, but generally yes. Unfair? Not at all. Can you do something about it? Yeah - go find his corp and kick their ass. Can't? Sounds like you're either not ready for low/null, are a bot, or you don't have any friends to help you...which goes back to you're not ready for low/null.
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Cendric De'Credsiu
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Posted - 2011.07.12 00:50:00 -
[78]
Quote: Nullsec and Lowsec is not safe - no you didn't say it was - but you fail to realize how unsafe it is.
If your cloaked and AFK it is perfectly safe.
Mags I did answer each item, i was in the process of editing it when you posted most likly.
Thats my point though right there. Nullsec and Lowsec is not supposed to be safe. No offense but after a half hour or so the cloaker doesn't bother me. All he does is make me change my operations a little. If you are in a system and cloaked up it should halt operations, it should provoke a response, it should cause an element of danger to the people in that system.
Right now it after a half hour to an hour, guess what, while I had to change my operations and have things disrupted a little, I still continue. I want that danger in my system you show up and cloak, it should stop my operations in there tracks, i shouldn't feel safer in null sec then I do in frigging Jita.
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Lakuma
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Posted - 2011.07.12 01:07:00 -
[79]
Totally safe, yes of course it is. Guess what, you still can't do anything but sit there and watch too. I'm seeing a cost/benefit here and thus no problem.
Even if the guy WAS probeable - he could just move around and still accomplish the exact same 'problem' of yours. He could do it hours on end too if he so chose. So again, you're only problem is 'honor playing' in that you can't stand that a player can accomplish a task with minimal effort.
You know we also have mining industrials, jet-can mining, data cores, FW and LP (talk about a faucet), changing ships while fighting with an orca, jump bridges, super-carriers that can only be beat by more super-carriers...I'm seeing a trend of minimal effort with benefits. So I really don't see a problem with someone being able to show up, cloak up, be unprobeable, and sit there while they go play tennis with the neighbors. There are methods available (that you STILL haven't addressed) to ward against the threat of these people - gangs and d-scan the most obvious, system security is more applicable to alliances large enough to support such an endeavor, but those first two a gang of three can do.
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Toovhon
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Posted - 2011.07.12 01:10:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Cendric De'Credsiu Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
You try and say cloaking and hanging out in your system is not 'playing the game'. It's becoming clear that anything you don't like 'isn't playing the game' as you see it. Well guess what - welcome to the sandbox. Anything goes. So either adapt or die. The latter is a good option for you. -- The Door! |
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Lakuma
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Posted - 2011.07.12 01:16:00 -
[81]
You know I just realized that even if you could probe out cloaks...
I have a covops, thus it moves at a normal speed. I take said covops and fit it to go as fast as possible passively (since we can't use mwd or ab, right?)
I now warp in, cloak up, double click past the star...and walk off....cruising along at however many hundred (maybe thousand?) m/s. Given that I'm moving, though slow relative to the size of probe scans, even if you pinpointed my cloaked ship and warped in, by the time you arrive I'll be more than 25km away from your warp in...and continuing to fly further away in a straight line. So unless by sheer luck you manually fly right at me, you'll not bust my cloak. Ta-da, I just became an afk cloaker that's probeable. Unless CCP develops a ship that can bust cloaks that far out (which I can see 20km maybe, but 25+?) your problem remains.
Food for Thought.
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Toovhon
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Posted - 2011.07.12 04:55:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Lakuma You know I just realized that even if you could probe out cloaks...
I have a covops, thus it moves at a normal speed. I take said covops and fit it to go as fast as possible passively (since we can't use mwd or ab, right?)
I now warp in, cloak up, double click past the star...and walk off....cruising along at however many hundred (maybe thousand?) m/s. Given that I'm moving, though slow relative to the size of probe scans, even if you pinpointed my cloaked ship and warped in, by the time you arrive I'll be more than 25km away from your warp in...and continuing to fly further away in a straight line. So unless by sheer luck you manually fly right at me, you'll not bust my cloak. Ta-da, I just became an afk cloaker that's probeable. Unless CCP develops a ship that can bust cloaks that far out (which I can see 20km maybe, but 25+?) your problem remains.
Food for Thought.
Ha, I dunno why I didn't think to mention that, cause I do the same with non-cloaky small fast ship by powering along with my MWD. Thus anyone trying to probe me out lands way the hell back that way *gestures over my shoulder*, giving me more than enough time to respond. Or if they jump in cloaked they're too far off to catch me without a MWD while cloaked. Either way I can see them coming a mile off.
The upshot is the whole idea of making cloaked ships probable fails anyway.
I also say that making cloaked ships would screw over many bigger, slower, more expensive ships who make not have a chance to survive, unless they can stay cloaked in a safe spot, while they figure a way out of a hostile system. -- The Door! |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.12 07:23:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Cendric De'Credsiu Intell, if you set it right you can read threw the logs when you come back, if you sit near a gate and use fraps, you can see what ships come in and out. By using fraps you can see how many folks are in local and what the active times are.
You can't rely upon chat logs for intel, it's an extremely unreliable intel source.
Fraps. You honestly want me to believe, that someone would create hours of fraps to watch later?
Originally by: Cendric De'Credsiu Items you of course wont gain any.
You already said they do, why did you lie about that?
Originally by: Cendric De'Credsiu Disruption is easy, I dont know if they are afk or not, so rather then risk it and have 10 hulks out with 1 person doing protection, i now have 3 to 4 folks providing protection, this lowers productivity, and if you consider how much ore you have to mine to keep an industry level of 5 or 4 each day, that loss can and most times does mean the loss of that industry level.
If I am going to online a PoS in that system, it would be relativly stupid of me to do so without having protection while it is going up and getting onlined.
Ratting is also affected as we will most times not go out and rat due to the rats warp scraming us. The risk is to great of you having scanned us down and then dropping a cyno and us being unable to get away.
But they are AFK. How do they do all of this, whilst not at the keyboard?
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
|
Posted - 2011.07.12 08:21:00 -
[84]
You haven't lived in a worm with an organized crew I take it? All holes are tagged almost at time of spawn and collapsing the potentially dangerous ones them takes very little effort. Keep in mind that the "real" worm dwellers don't solo crap like you are probably used to, so a T3 gang poses no significant threat .. read the long story about the first entity to ever be kicked out of a worm .. took almost six months if I recall (R&K doing the deed I think).
Originally by: Loki Sei So again, how much of your safety net "local intel" are you willing to give up to be able to address the afk cloaky?
Do try to keep up, already answered that question. Difference between us seems to be that you want changes that benefit your chosen modus operandi at the expense of all others, whereas I aim for actual balance.
Removing local alone breaks more than fixes.
PS: Please stop thinking I have anything to do with the daisy-chain stroking that is null .. I saw the impending fiasco of DOM before it was deployed and got out while the getting was good thank you very much.
Originally by: Toovhon I also say that making cloaked ships would screw over many bigger...
Oh no, my solo ratting super-capital backbone!!!!1111 You must be referring to supers, nothing else fits and nothing else would be impacted to any significant degree.
Guess what, supers shouldn't be out and about without support if they want to live. Supers are alliance assets speaks not only about the cost but how they were intended to be used, the fact that any moron with half a brain can buy one with a couple of months of grinding does not really change that.
Would probeable cloaks make Supers obsolete? Hardly, a few would die in a fire after the change but then tactical changes are made .. like jumping with triage NRG-trans Archons or forward bases (POS) along travel paths. Would probeable cloaks make solo Supers obsolete? Most definitely, as they should be. That homogeneous super-blobs is even viable is ridiculous beyond belief and one of the reasons why they will be hit hard when the pendulum comes back.
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Eperor
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Posted - 2011.07.12 08:21:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Bagehi The AFK cloaker is the only counter to bots.
The only person who is reasonably affected by an AFK cloaker is a botter.
Every other person is capable of asking for help from corp/alliance if the cloaker turns out to be active.
Not true all efected by thatos freeks, as botter in the same way just ratter, this days not so much good space to rat only 3-5 systems in all regions where is good anomalys. And from my expiriance mostly clouckers have cov cynos on them so par rating and fleet ratign dont change a **** and its still for that cloucker to easy get targets.
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Eperor
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Posted - 2011.07.12 08:28:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Cendric De'Credsiu This is not the issue, the fact that they are there is not the issue. At no time should any player be able to gain an advantage of the other players without being at there computer. That's what needs to be fixed with the AFK cloaking. The fact that you gain a tactical advantage without playing.
Botting gives you an advantage without you having to be there to control your character.
AFK Cloaking gives you an advantage without you having to be there to control your character. You get intel on a system, see who's there and who comes and goes outa the system, ect all without needing to actually play the game. Its just like botting and going out a mining. The only difference is that you dont need to use a third party program to do it.
That's the issue that needs to be addressed, by removing the simple fact that you can do it while afk as I have stated previously it allows for both sides to have an advantage. We still wont be able to find you, we still wont be able to kill you. The mechanics of the cloak do not change. The only thing that changes is you now can't just come into the system gather the intel or other items without being at your keyboard.
Personally that's all I want to see change, I want you at your keyboard to disrupt my productivity or gather intell on my systems. I honestly don't care if I can find you and kill you. I just want you at your keyboard and actually playing to gain any advantage perceived or real in my systems. You want to take my industry level from 5 to 4 by disrupting my activities great I have no problems with you doing it as long as your at your keyboard doing it. You want to scout out my system and find out the best times to attack when resistance will be light or not there, great fine just play the game to do it. You want to find my PoS and take it out great just play the game while you do it. That's all I want to see change.
How do they gather intel whilst AFK? What other items to they gather whilst AFK? How do they disrupt your activities whilst AFK?
I'd like honest, factual answers please.
How do they gather intel whilst AFK? Boting wath els, so they geting intell on wath hapening in that system, bots geting intell, its not verry hard make soft with wil count up a ppl in sytem and if you put close to station otr to gate even direct scan rezutlts off ship types.
What other items to they gather whilst AFK? Basicly main purpes fo thos is get inetel and get easy target you newer know hee is actiuve or hee is not actif but only a chance that soem one can sit in systme weeks witout sleep and eating somting, and geter intel all the time its inaf to get them out off system no easy mode for them to.
How do they disrupt your activities whilst AFK? How is ad newer know when hee beckoms active if hee beckoms active no change to safe your self, you wil be hot droped in seconds. So to easy get targets.
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Eperor
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Posted - 2011.07.12 08:45:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Eperor on 12/07/2011 08:45:18
Originally by: Lakuma I have yet to see answers to why these aren't suitable ways to handle afk cloakers:
Answres: 1. D-Scan for probes not works usualy they booking sanctums havens befor you even geting them and scan down santum or heven no need probes. so no chanhe to see oprobes att all, hee can just simply warp from one sanctum or hevenm to ader at 100km see if there is osme one if is rewarop and atack you will not have even a chance to rpotect or call reinforcments you will be hot drops and died. even if you ratr with 5-6 ppl probably smalest wil exacape but alinign times to high to excape atall. i Saa even with 2-3 distrupts such clouckers.
2. Have a gang of friends with you to protect you no point ot have them they wil have eny way biger force to counter you and frends.
3. Also - as far as 'free intel' goes, if they can do it so can you. So your only argument is 'honor playing' - that is that players shouldn't be able to get things easy if they can. Why not send your own cloakers to their systems? Only you are halting operations, not them. You are being REACTIONARY. Meny off them even dont have systems and oppareting from npc space so wherre you will send your couckers :) in to empire or NPC 0.0 space and wath you wil disturp there afk siting pvper chars with are siting in stations until they play in high sec msion runing with ader chars :)
4. Here's another thought - do you operate in only ONE system? Guess what? AFK cloakers can't follow you, what a concept. move next door and mine there. If you're worried about hauling - you should have an escort anyways, so a cloaker won't matter. If you ARE in just one system, afk cloakers are the least of your concerns. you even know how much systems left for good ratign in space thos can cover even small alince clouckers i dont talk about biger ones. So you have in region only like max 10 systems and you tink they will not get 10 clcoukers to distrup them all i sa allready that hapening.
5. Nullsec and Lowsec is not safe - no you didn't say it was - but you fail to realize how unsafe it is. Yes, it really is that easy to get intel on you so you better be ready when that afk cloaker ends up being a hot drop when you least expect it. Stressful? Only if you make it so, but generally yes. Unfair? Not at all. Can you do something about it? Yeah - go find his corp and kick their ass. Can't? Sounds like you're either not ready for low/null, are a bot, or you don't have any friends to help you...which goes back to you're not ready for low/null. No one talks about safty here. Wie talking about that one pilot can do to much interfirence iin local ppl activitys, than supose to, its okey roming gangs thos you can counter they coming in you make gang counter them kil them or they run home all its good and every one happy but couckers you cant counter eny known way you wil be dead eny way or dont rat atta all or dont mine at all. And than you dont need wonder that oppl leaving 0.0 meny hoo left are pist off thos clouckers. so conclusion: roming gangs solo runing pvp and cating soem one its okey, but coucked sit in system for weeks and hot drop ppl with will not have chence even proteckt them self not okey, tho big interfirance in local live from them.
I hope answeered on all off them.
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Eperor
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Posted - 2011.07.12 08:49:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Cendric De'Credsiu Intell, if you set it right you can read threw the logs when you come back, if you sit near a gate and use fraps, you can see what ships come in and out. By using fraps you can see how many folks are in local and what the active times are.
You can't rely upon chat logs for intel, it's an extremely unreliable intel source.
Fraps. You honestly want me to believe, that someone would create hours of fraps to watch later?
Originally by: Cendric De'Credsiu Items you of course wont gain any.
You already said they do, why did you lie about that?
Originally by: Cendric De'Credsiu Disruption is easy, I dont know if they are afk or not, so rather then risk it and have 10 hulks out with 1 person doing protection, i now have 3 to 4 folks providing protection, this lowers productivity, and if you consider how much ore you have to mine to keep an industry level of 5 or 4 each day, that loss can and most times does mean the loss of that industry level.
If I am going to online a PoS in that system, it would be relativly stupid of me to do so without having protection while it is going up and getting onlined.
Ratting is also affected as we will most times not go out and rat due to the rats warp scraming us. The risk is to great of you having scanned us down and then dropping a cyno and us being unable to get away.
But they are AFK. How do they do all of this, whilst not at the keyboard?
allready exist sych programms with are using frapses and that can be counted outomatikly no need even count them manyaly with all ship names insted.
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Portmanteau
Gallente CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2011.07.12 09:08:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Eperor
allready exist sych programms with are using frapses and that can be counted outomatikly no need even count them manyaly with all ship names insted.
my eyes
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Toovhon
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Posted - 2011.07.12 09:49:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Toovhon I also say that making cloaked ships would screw over many bigger...
Oh no, my solo ratting super-capital backbone!!!!1111 You must be referring to supers, nothing else fits and nothing else would be impacted to any significant degree.
No, I'm mainly referring to Battlecruisers and battleships as I don't fly caps myself (nor do I have much interest in doing so). Most BCs and BSes cannot fly fast enough cloaked to make probing cloaked ships fail for them, if they're set to burn in a straight line. Nano fits might change that, but they have been impractical for larger ships since the nano nerf.
But good job not knowing the speed capabilities of sub-caps while cloaked, or how far away one would have to be to escape tackling. -- The Door! |
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.07.12 10:26:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Toovhon ...But good job not knowing the speed capabilities of sub-caps while cloaked, or how far away one would have to be to escape tackling.
No serious pew'er cloaks their ships any more except maybe during logistics operations. Even macros/bots don't use cloaks any more for Goddess sake. The only 'combat' cloaks I have seen the past 4 years are fail BB's and dictors plus an assortment of noobs who don't know any better.
Remember that any one change will have to be made together with a whole slew of companion changes, probeable cloaks would fit nicely with an elimination of local for instance and would naturally exclude "legitimate" uses (ie. all ships with cloak bonuses).
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Loki Sei
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Posted - 2011.07.12 12:07:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida You haven't lived in a worm with an organized crew I take it? All holes are tagged almost at time of spawn and collapsing the potentially dangerous ones them takes very little effort. Keep in mind that the "real" worm dwellers don't solo crap like you are probably used to, so a T3 gang poses no significant threat ..
Right, no one ever gets ambushed in WH space while doing sites. I have been on both sides of that equation, and if a group is mobilized it takes about a minutes or two to ambush a group with a HIC and gang.
Also ask CCRES how long it took AHARM to boot them from W-Space. Guarantee it was not 6 months.
But aside from that, you are missing the whole point of my argument. These "ISK-*****s" don't live in W-Space because they have to work to find the limited supply of combat sites and mining sites. They want upgraded null sec to be soft and warm, and have the ability to put a cloaked ship several jumps out and watch local for incoming gangs. They want to make isk hand by chaining belts, grav sites and combat sites that respawn in a minute.
You are right the whole balance of null is broken, there is no way to effectively hunt industrial and ratters, and they have no effective way to stop running from AFK cloakers. It is a poor balance, but a balance none the less. To eliminate the AFK Cloak without giving some way to hunt these types of players would throw off the balance.
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Icke Himal
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Posted - 2011.07.12 13:06:00 -
[93]
+1
Auto log out for afk¦s after an ammount of time (1hr?). Not even low or 0.0
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Portmanteau
Gallente CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2011.07.12 16:15:00 -
[94]
Jesus I don't even live is 0.0 and I can think of several ways to cope with this tactic
1. stay aligned, really not hard to do, warp as soon as you see the ebil person uncloak
2. Rat with a couple of friends, 3 v 1 should be fairly easy to manage if you don't all fill your pants at the sight of a red
3. have a falcon alt / friend / whatever handy (I'm sure you null bears can manage this one already)
4. move to the next system
5. Actually think tactically and bait / kill the dude in the cloaky (best option surely)
Damn, if I can manage to rat my sec status up in 0.0 where EVERYONE is hostile to me, surely you can manage in a 0.0 area you own, that's FULL OF BLUES and only has 1 enemy in it
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Toovhon
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Posted - 2011.07.12 17:26:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Toovhon ...But good job not knowing the speed capabilities of sub-caps while cloaked, or how far away one would have to be to escape tackling.
No serious pew'er cloaks their ships any more except maybe during logistics operations. Even macros/bots don't use cloaks any more for Goddess sake. The only 'combat' cloaks I have seen the past 4 years are fail BB's and dictors plus an assortment of noobs who don't know any better.
You've obviously not spent much time in other people's space if you think cloaking isn't used by PvPers. -- The Door! |
Baaldor
In Igne Morim
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Posted - 2011.07.12 17:27:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Toovhon
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Toovhon ...But good job not knowing the speed capabilities of sub-caps while cloaked, or how far away one would have to be to escape tackling.
No serious pew'er cloaks their ships any more except maybe during logistics operations. Even macros/bots don't use cloaks any more for Goddess sake. The only 'combat' cloaks I have seen the past 4 years are fail BB's and dictors plus an assortment of noobs who don't know any better.
You've obviously not spent much time in other people's space if you think cloaking isn't used by PvPers.
^^this
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DNSBLACK
Gallente Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2011.07.12 18:16:00 -
[97]
AFK = AWAY FROM KEYBOARD
1. I have yet to hear of one incident that involved a AFK player killing another player who was sitting at his key board.
2. The issue is not cloaking it is AFK. So lets do away with all AFKERS.
a. Player in stations are ejected every 30 minutes so they have to redock. I hate flying 30 jumps into 0.0 to a station system with 30 people in it all docked up and afk.
b. I want a weapon called the fumigator that after going into siege mode on a dread attachs itself to a station and injects poisen gas so all players who dont undock with in 5 min will begin to lose skill points. After undocking the gas blocks their ability to redock for 5 min.
c. POS ship draggingTractor beam that attachs to a dread and can drag players out of a pos who are afk. If they are active all they have to do is fly back to the tower and the beam is broke.
Or how about you come to grips with the fact until CCP hooks you up to your computer with a wireless implant that tells the server when you are not sitting and playing eve you should get over your fears of being killed by people who are not touching there key board.
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Toovhon
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Posted - 2011.07.12 18:27:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Toovhon on 12/07/2011 18:27:36 ^Nice :-D -- The Door! |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.07.12 19:01:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Toovhon You've obviously not spent much time in other people's space if you think cloaking isn't used by PvPers.
That is where the difference is, you probably think that killing PvE'ers is PvP whereas I consider it ratting .. Use a cloak on a ship not designed for it against a willing and armed opponent .. doesn't do very well at all.
There's a reason why cloaks on "combat" fits are laughed at when they appear on the various killboards.
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Baaldor
In Igne Morim
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Posted - 2011.07.12 19:30:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Toovhon You've obviously not spent much time in other people's space if you think cloaking isn't used by PvPers.
That is where the difference is, you probably think that killing PvE'ers is PvP whereas I consider it ratting .. Use a cloak on a ship not designed for it against a willing and armed opponent .. doesn't do very well at all.
There's a reason why cloaks on "combat" fits are laughed at when they appear on the various killboards.
Who is laughing exactly? I can not think of one, serious 0.0 presence past or present that has not used or continues to use this tactic. It is a widely used tactic in 0.0 across the board. And it is not all about popping fat jewbears, flying pinatas. They just happen to get in the way sometimes.
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Javelin6
Dirt Nap Squad
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Posted - 2011.07.12 19:52:00 -
[101]
Originally by: DNSBLACK AFK = AWAY FROM KEYBOARD
1. I have yet to hear of one incident that involved a AFK player killing another player who was sitting at his key board.
2. The issue is not cloaking it is AFK. So lets do away with all AFKERS.
a. Player in stations are ejected every 30 minutes so they have to redock. I hate flying 30 jumps into 0.0 to a station system with 30 people in it all docked up and afk.
b. I want a weapon called the fumigator that after going into siege mode on a dread attachs itself to a station and injects poisen gas so all players who dont undock with in 5 min will begin to lose skill points. After undocking the gas blocks their ability to redock for 5 min.
c. POS ship draggingTractor beam that attachs to a dread and can drag players out of a pos who are afk. If they are active all they have to do is fly back to the tower and the beam is broke.
Or how about you come to grips with the fact until CCP hooks you up to your computer with a wireless implant that tells the server when you are not sitting and playing eve you should get over your fears of being killed by people who are not touching there key board.
This.
The argument for years boils down to: YOU want CCP to develop a game mechanic to compensate for your own Fear/Paranoia.
Its a multi-player game. Don't do anything alone and there wont be an issue. ______________________________________________
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.12 20:25:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Portmanteau
Originally by: Eperor
allready exist sych programms with are using frapses and that can be counted outomatikly no need even count them manyaly with all ship names insted.
my eyes
Indeed.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.12 21:20:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Eperor :words:
I yelled at your corp 4 years ago for being stupid and not docking up or moving to a different system with AFK cloakers in system and known active reds in the system next door.
You still haven't learned :whelp: Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER SO THAT I CAN HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD |
Toovhon
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Posted - 2011.07.13 02:00:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Toovhon You've obviously not spent much time in other people's space if you think cloaking isn't used by PvPers.
That is where the difference is, you probably think that killing PvE'ers is PvP whereas I consider it ratting .. Use a cloak on a ship not designed for it against a willing and armed opponent .. doesn't do very well at all.
There's a reason why cloaks on "combat" fits are laughed at when they appear on the various killboards.
I think that I've had many a cat and mouse game with gate camps and locals in my stealth bomber, etc. I don't recall ever being laughed at, and while I was sometimes able to catch the unprepared PvEers, I also engaged PvP targets of opportunity who were trying to find me and my mates, camp the gate/station/whatever in question, etc.
So again I suggest you're unfamiliar with the fun and damage (can someone say "BOMB!"? :-D ) a group of cloaked PvPers can have.
Not to mention the many times a black ops crew have snuck a fleet behind the lines. What was that well reported engagement in Providence I think, where an alliance snuck a fleet of mostly stealth bombers to a mining op (that was betrayed by some of the miners), and took out a rorqual? That was very funny. Who was that? Gah - memory failing... -- The Door! |
Ned Black
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Posted - 2011.07.13 07:21:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida You haven't lived in a worm with an organized crew I take it? All holes are tagged almost at time of spawn and collapsing the potentially dangerous ones them takes very little effort. Keep in mind that the "real" worm dwellers don't solo crap like you are probably used to, so a T3 gang poses no significant threat .. read the long story about the first entity to ever be kicked out of a worm .. took almost six months if I recall (R&K doing the deed I think).
Right back at you. Have you ever been in a organized WH crew? Sure as hell does not sound like it. A T3 gang poses no significant threat? That is just so wrong on so many levels...
You TRY to keep your home system reasonably "safe", but you can never ever be 100% sure. 2 seconds after scanning a new WH may pop into your system and suddenly you have that "insignificant T3 gang threat" decloaking right next to you so that they can proceed to give you a nice suprice buttsex session.
I told one of the new guys is that if he manages to survive the initial period of WH life, which is kind of a huge change to someone used to 0.0, he will most likely never go back to K-space and he will start to frown on all the sniveling 0.0 people that scatter like vermin to a light as soon as you enter their system. 0.0 people must be the safest people in the game, yet they are probably the ones that are the most scared as well.
You 0.0 people have your infailable local intel channel, and since you do you know stuff you really should not know and that makes you scared.
The simple fact is... Local turns boys into (cry)babybears. This thread is the perfect example of that fact.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.07.13 08:02:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Toovhon I think that I've had many a cat and mouse game with gate camps and locals in my stealth bomber, etc. ....
Oh you are suddenly speaking of ships designed with cloaking in mind, well guess where/when my "laughed at" comment was made .. let me quote you for ease of reference:
Originally by: Toovhon No, I'm mainly referring to Battlecruisers and battleships as I don't fly caps myself (nor do I have much interest in doing so). Most BCs and BSes cannot fly fast enough cloaked to make probing cloaked ships fail for them, if they're set to burn in a straight line. Nano fits might change that, but they have been impractical for larger ships since the nano nerf....
Had tons of fun with lots of cloaking BC/BS lately then? Did the people who slaughtered you commend you on your inspired fitting choices or did they laugh at you as if you just wet yourself in public?
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.07.13 08:08:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Toovhon I think that I've had many a cat and mouse game with gate camps and locals in my stealth bomber, etc. ....
Oh you are suddenly speaking of ships designed with cloaking in mind, well guess where/when my "laughed at" comment was made .. let me quote you for ease of reference:
Originally by: Toovhon No, I'm mainly referring to Battlecruisers and battleships as I don't fly caps myself (nor do I have much interest in doing so). Most BCs and BSes cannot fly fast enough cloaked to make probing cloaked ships fail for them, if they're set to burn in a straight line. Nano fits might change that, but they have been impractical for larger ships since the nano nerf....
Had tons of fun with lots of cloaking BC/BS lately then? Did the people who slaughtered you commend you on your inspired fitting choices or did they laugh at you as if you just wet yourself in public?
Originally by: Ned Black ..The simple fact is... Local turns boys into (cry)babybears. This thread is the perfect example of that fact.
Quite right. The delayed local works really well in worms, for defender and attacker both. Now what kind of effect would it have if cynos were possible and all worms lasted for 24-72hrs with no mass restrictions? .. the two can not be compared or used as examples of how the other can/should be as the revolving doors make all the difference.
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Ned Black
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Posted - 2011.07.13 08:37:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Quite right. The delayed local works really well in worms, for defender and attacker both. Now what kind of effect would it have if cynos were possible and all worms lasted for 24-72hrs with no mass restrictions? .. the two can not be compared or used as examples of how the other can/should be as the revolving doors make all the difference.
Would it suprise you greatly if I said that I would like black ops cynos to work in WHs?
To me that would be very cool indeed.
0.0 is supposed to be unsafe, yet it is the most safe place in eve. And from reading what you really write the big problem is not the cloaky ship but the ability of said ships to put up a cyno... so the thing you really should be talking about is to nerf cynos.
Personally I WOULD like to change the way cloaks work entirely. From the Prototype cloak that should just remove you from overview but leave you fully visible in space and directional, to the improved cloak that removes overview and directional and adds a "blurring" effect making you hard to see if you are stationary in space, and finally the covert ops cloak that should remove you from the above and local as well as making you totally invisible while stationary and only very slightly visible while moving.
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Icke Himal
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Posted - 2011.07.13 09:06:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Icke Himal Auto log out for afk¦s after an ammount of time (1hr?). Not even low or 0.0
Easily bypassed, as has been said numerous times before.
I¦m not realy sure if i understood this right but if i am then the Question of that action ist How much efford neds that mechanic (near zero) will everyone who uses the afk-cloack-tactic bypass it (guess not)so will it minimize some problems a bit (guess yes). Just a first step. But if there were bypass arguments that often, the request for that mechanic seems a minimum that often.
Maybe the first topic in that direction should just be the topic "Support Autologout" and if the problem is still that present, some additional ways can be looked for. And there are always some other reasons wich can be solved by an autologout (i guess again^^).
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.07.13 09:45:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Ned Black Would it suprise you greatly if I said that I would like black ops cynos to work in WHs?
To me that would be very cool indeed...
Would be cool, but it would skew the power ratio so much in favour of an attacker that no one will ever put down roots in worms. Would be similar to removing cyno jammers from game, it will quickly degenerate into Hot-drop-o'clock 23/7 with no thought or reason other than "just because". Any sort of permanent residence would be made impossible to maintain for any period of time.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.07.13 10:15:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Ned Black Would it suprise you greatly if I said that I would like black ops cynos to work in WHs?
To me that would be very cool indeed...
Would be cool, but it would skew the power ratio so much in favour of an attacker that no one will ever put down roots in worms. Would be similar to removing cyno jammers from game, it will quickly degenerate into Hot-drop-o'clock 23/7 with no thought or reason other than "just because". Any sort of permanent residence would be made impossible to maintain for any period of time.
Yeah, that sounds horrible. One of the great advantages of WH space is that force projection is much harder; another is that scouting is a difficult profession requiring effort and skill. With blackops cynos in WH space, any engagement could end up with an unscoutable gank squad being hotdropped on top of you.
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Toovhon
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Posted - 2011.07.13 11:02:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Toovhon I think that I've had many a cat and mouse game with gate camps and locals in my stealth bomber, etc. ....
Oh you are suddenly speaking of ships designed with cloaking in mind, well guess where/when my "laughed at" comment was made .. let me quote you for ease of reference:
Originally by: Toovhon No, I'm mainly referring to Battlecruisers and battleships as I don't fly caps myself (nor do I have much interest in doing so). Most BCs and BSes cannot fly fast enough cloaked to make probing cloaked ships fail for them, if they're set to burn in a straight line. Nano fits might change that, but they have been impractical for larger ships since the nano nerf....
Had tons of fun with lots of cloaking BC/BS lately then? Did the people who slaughtered you commend you on your inspired fitting choices or did they laugh at you as if you just wet yourself in public?
You're really not very bright or experienced in Eve, are you?
Ok, let's talk BCs and BSes. I like the Drake myself, with it's handy free eighth high slow to fit a cloak in. It's very handy for slipping past gate camps using the old trick of pulsing one's MWD, cloak, then uncloak and straight to warp once the MWD finishes it's cycle, or you're out of the warp disruption field.
Again I don't remember being laughed at for slipping a gang of larger sub-caps through a camp and on to an attack. In fact I'd say it was more tears like yours on the other side when we were successful.
Or maybe you want an example of cloaks used directly in combat (or as direct as you can, given you can't exactly fire cloaked, heh), not just to get the ships there?
Ok - more than once I've lain in wait using a regular cloak either solo or as a small group, for a victim to pass by. If they're sloppy or simply not aware your character is a threat (it helps to make sure you're not a red), this works well. They get close, you de-cloak and spring the trap.
Unless you're going to cry that's more 'unfair' play :-D, then there's your use of regular cloaking in combat.
It's also been handy to use a ship with a regular cloak as a spy already in place, when they don't have to warp somewhere else cloaked, and/or you expect them to die (a T1 ship with a regular cloak costs a lot less than a T2 covert ops ship).
Oh, and though it only works the once, there was also the time we warped in a small missile sniping fleet and a group of heavy tackle Drakes, a couple hundred km off a gate camp. The Drakes immediately cloaked. The sniping BSes started attacking. Not being the best and brightest Eve has to offer, the campers turned on their MWDs and powered towards us, either unaware there had briefly been a lot more ships on their overview, or that local showed more of us, or perhaps just not caring - as I said - not the best and brightest.
The snipers pulsed MWDs, cloaked and scattered making them hard to bump into. Then our second group of heavy assault Drakes de-cloaked and tackled the incoming campers as they reached our snipe spot. Panic ensured, and the snipers de-cloaked again, and re-joined the attack, unleashing their drones as well. At that point our Drakes with their huge tank were targeted, and not our paper tank DPS fit BSes. The campers were slow to switch targets back, and we annihilated them before they could take out any of our BSes (one of our Drakes did bite the dust, IIRC) :-)
And that, dear fool, is just some of the fun that can be had with non-covert ops cloaked sub-caps. -- The Door! |
Toovhon
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Posted - 2011.07.13 11:05:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Personal attack, lame attempt to misconstrue what I said, idiotic dismissal of regular cloaks in combat, blah, blah, blah
Oh, BTW - Penny Arcade explains why you suck in Eve :-D -- The Door! |
Master Hu
Caldari Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2011.07.13 22:34:00 -
[114]
Edited by: Master Hu on 13/07/2011 22:35:04 So does AFK stand for "away from keyboard and not watching what is going on and have no clue what is going on in local and can't kill you since I am AFK" or "away from keg and need to refill my beerses?
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Lakuma
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Posted - 2011.07.13 23:35:00 -
[115]
3 supports...
...that ought to tell you how many people actually see AFK cloakers as a problem. I mean, it's been on front page how long now?
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Nocte Eisner
Caldari Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2011.07.14 00:29:00 -
[116]
There is no problem with AFK cloaking.
Improvise, adapt, overcome. -
CCP: We are adults who wage economic, social, and tactical warfare on each other for fun. Don't **** with us.[/i] |
Randal Eirikr
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Posted - 2011.07.14 05:36:00 -
[117]
I have a Red who constantly, probably 20 hours a day, AFK cloaks in my system.
And I don't give a rats ass about it. Know why? I check my D-scan when I rat/mission, I have friends on Comms/Chats who, while they are doing their own ****, are also ready to help a friend in need as soon as **** gets real.
Its Not Hard. Either adapt and work with others, or die in a fire because you're too lazy to manage the 'perceived' threat of an AFK cloaker. I'll be honest, when I first came to 0.0 I thought it was ******ed as hell too, but now that I've got many months under my belt of living in Null, I've not only grown used to it, but I counter it often.
As for the fear of him having a Cyno... be aligned? Have intel on his Corp/past engagements/etc?
There are many things players can do to minimize the risks they are presented with. The question is just how much effort are you willing to put in for that Bounty Tick or Mission Reward. If you can't be bothered to put the effort into countering an AFK cloaker, then why the flying $&%@ are you in 0.0 space?
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Aries Aion
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Posted - 2011.07.14 06:32:00 -
[118]
Give cloaks a timer, 10 minutes for example, train it up and have an implant and you will get a few more minutes. Once your timer is up you will have 30 seconds or whatever before you can reactivate your cloak. That way if your afk you will de-cloak and can be scanned and found. OR make the cloak run on some kind of fuel that takes cargo space. Can't stay cloaked forever if you need to go refuel it. Personally I like it the way it is right now, if its not a risk its not worth doing. Mining and rating while someone is in your space just means you have to be a little attentive while you do it. HAVE FUN AND FLY SAFE.
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Sgt Chop
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Posted - 2011.07.14 23:37:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Miang Hawaa This blatant exploit has gone on long enough. Players should not be allowed to have a tactical advantage while afk at any point. This defines exploit.
Everyone knows it is a problem. It has been for a very long time. Why has nothing been done?
What is being done about this frustrating problem?
Aww Tears.... get over it
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Cendric De'Credsiu
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Posted - 2011.07.15 16:21:00 -
[120]
This is the last time I will try and explain it to you all.
The issue is not that they are cloaked. Cloak mechanics do not need to change.
The issue is the tactic is not having the desired effect. People have become so used to it that while some folks post threads like this over all going into a system and cloaking and walking away from your keyboard is not causing the effects it should.
Yes all the countering tactics, running with friends ect, get used when a cloaky comes into system. That's not the issue. The issue is that while it disrupts a system and causes a little grief and lowered production. It in no way causes the effects that it should.
A cloak in system should stop that system in its tracks, while folks try and find him, bait him, kill him, work at protecting assets ect. That's what I want to see change. The cloak doesn't need to change just the AFK portion of it. Untill the afk portion of the tactic changes it will continue to be just an annoyance and that's the part I want to see change. I want to see this be more capable then what it is of disrupting a system.
For those that asked, I would create hours of fraps for intel for systems that I wanted to take down. Any good tactician gains as much information as he can before launching an attack. You also don't need fraps. There are programs out there that can "read" the info displayed on your screen and put it in a text format. Sit 130 off a gate cloaked up walk away and you get to see what kind of ships come into system how long they where there by having local logged properly to see who was in system.
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elegance refined
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Posted - 2011.07.15 16:34:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Cendric De'Credsiu This is the last time I will try and explain it to you all.
The issue is not that they are cloaked. Cloak mechanics do not need to change.
The issue is the tactic is not having the desired effect. People have become so used to it that while some folks post threads like this over all going into a system and cloaking and walking away from your keyboard is not causing the effects it should.
Yes all the countering tactics, running with friends ect, get used when a cloaky comes into system. That's not the issue. The issue is that while it disrupts a system and causes a little grief and lowered production. It in no way causes the effects that it should.
A cloak in system should stop that system in its tracks, while folks try and find him, bait him, kill him, work at protecting assets ect. That's what I want to see change. The cloak doesn't need to change just the AFK portion of it. Untill the afk portion of the tactic changes it will continue to be just an annoyance and that's the part I want to see change. I want to see this be more capable then what it is of disrupting a system.
For those that asked, I would create hours of fraps for intel for systems that I wanted to take down. Any good tactician gains as much information as he can before launching an attack. You also don't need fraps. There are programs out there that can "read" the info displayed on your screen and put it in a text format. Sit 130 off a gate cloaked up walk away and you get to see what kind of ships come into system how long they where there by having local logged properly to see who was in system.
Seems to me the simple solution to the afk cloaker is requireing cloaks to actual use cap !to generate a system that reflects the universe around you should require a great deal of energy to accomplish ! This way it requires the cloaker to to recharge cap while decloaked and gives the carebears time to hunt him down ,,,,, bahahaha who am i kidding they will still hide and whine ,,,, but still this is a sound solution to the issue !
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Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.07.15 16:52:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Cendric De'Credsiu This is the last time I will try and explain it to you all.
The issue is not that they are cloaked. Cloak mechanics do not need to change.
The issue is the tactic is not having the desired effect. People have become so used to it that while some folks post threads like this over all going into a system and cloaking and walking away from your keyboard is not causing the effects it should.
Yes all the countering tactics, running with friends ect, get used when a cloaky comes into system. That's not the issue. The issue is that while it disrupts a system and causes a little grief and lowered production. It in no way causes the effects that it should.
A cloak in system should stop that system in its tracks, while folks try and find him, bait him, kill him, work at protecting assets ect. That's what I want to see change. The cloak doesn't need to change just the AFK portion of it. Untill the afk portion of the tactic changes it will continue to be just an annoyance and that's the part I want to see change. I want to see this be more capable then what it is of disrupting a system.
For those that asked, I would create hours of fraps for intel for systems that I wanted to take down. Any good tactician gains as much information as he can before launching an attack. You also don't need fraps. There are programs out there that can "read" the info displayed on your screen and put it in a text format. Sit 130 off a gate cloaked up walk away and you get to see what kind of ships come into system how long they where there by having local logged properly to see who was in system.
And how is this different from, say... neutrals in local who are afk when you are mining/missioning in lowsec?
(the answer is that it isn't different at all)
Therefore, the annoyance, is "just something you have to deal with when you are not in highsec".
So nothing needs to change here, except maybe, that everyone who cannot deal* with this annoyance should move back to highsec.
* using the standard counter tactics that have already been mentioned many times in the thread.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.15 17:48:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Cendric De'Credsiu This is the last time I will try and explain it to you all.
The issue is not that they are cloaked. Cloak mechanics do not need to change.
The issue is the tactic is not having the desired effect. People have become so used to it that while some folks post threads like this over all going into a system and cloaking and walking away from your keyboard is not causing the effects it should.
Yes all the countering tactics, running with friends ect, get used when a cloaky comes into system. That's not the issue. The issue is that while it disrupts a system and causes a little grief and lowered production. It in no way causes the effects that it should.
A cloak in system should stop that system in its tracks, while folks try and find him, bait him, kill him, work at protecting assets ect. That's what I want to see change. The cloak doesn't need to change just the AFK portion of it. Untill the afk portion of the tactic changes it will continue to be just an annoyance and that's the part I want to see change. I want to see this be more capable then what it is of disrupting a system.
For those that asked, I would create hours of fraps for intel for systems that I wanted to take down. Any good tactician gains as much information as he can before launching an attack. You also don't need fraps. There are programs out there that can "read" the info displayed on your screen and put it in a text format. Sit 130 off a gate cloaked up walk away and you get to see what kind of ships come into system how long they where there by having local logged properly to see who was in system.
Why are you avoiding my questions?
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Gaara's sniper
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Posted - 2011.07.15 19:42:00 -
[124]
Make cloak drain cap.
DONE.
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Baaldor
In Igne Morim
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Posted - 2011.07.15 19:44:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Gaara's sniper Make cloak drain cap.
DONE.
Learn to deal.
Done.
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Page Starcaster
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Posted - 2011.07.15 20:16:00 -
[126]
Edited by: Page Starcaster on 15/07/2011 20:22:08
I skipped over most of this thread as it is a well known topic. but i had to add my 0.02 isk.
AFK cloaking is just another form of espionage or covert ops. It is no different than the police leaving an old squad car parked under a bridge or along the side of the road. It will deter speeders even if there is no COP in the car. It is one of the jobs cov ops ships such as recon ships are made for.
The ones that do this are generally the same characters in the same area's. after a while you will get to recognize most of them, and know when you see them in local, they are usually AFK. The truth is many do not do this to disrupt the system, but do it for gathering intel for their alliance. I have done this, not actually AFK, but to everyone else it would seem i was afk. I have several accounts, and when I am busy in fleet with one account I often will place characters from the accounts I am not using in cloakies and stick them in nearby hostile systems. Not to disrupt the system, I have no intention of ganking miners or ratters(unless I get bored) but I do it for intel, so I can alt tab over occasionally to see what is happening in the system, if a counter fleet is gathering there or not.
A good Fleet Commander always has scouts in the surrounding systems that they expect a possible counter attack from. The best way to avoid a surprise attack is to see them coming. Watch the systems you know they will be coming from. If you see a spike of reds in local, there is a good chance they are headed your way. Maybe your fleet can even go after them before they get organized and ready to fight. There is nothing like catching a fleet while they are forming up before the logi guys are ready. it always means a few easy kills before they get there **** together.
Just my 0.02 isk, but try to understand why players do things before you go and rage about it.
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Cendric De'Credsiu
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Posted - 2011.07.15 22:17:00 -
[127]
Mag's I already answered your questions. Along with a lot of other folks. I don't want to see the cloak mechanics change at all. I want to see the tactic cause more chaos and problems for the folks in the systems, In return for that I want the cloaker to actually have to be at the keyboard.
Being sorta afk is fine your still on another account and changing back to it your still at the keyboard, with changing it to where you can't afk cloak it provides us with a lot more disruption, gives us the chance to try and bait you. Disrupts the system 10 times better then what it does now, generally provides more fun for all of us. I would rather spend an hour trying to bait said cloak to kill them then to know that they are afk and be stuck in my normal activities all the time.
So in short.
Make it to where you have to be at the keyboard, in return you all get better disruption of systems and more accurate intel on a system.
Benefit for the pvper: Better disruptions of the systems allowing you to prevent Industry level gains and better disruption of ratting.
Benefit for the carebear: Knowing that the cloaker is active and therefore allowing you to do the normal hide or to actually start getting into the pvp aspects of the game.
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Cendric De'Credsiu
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Posted - 2011.07.15 22:24:00 -
[128]
Ohh and Mag's me thinks your looking at it from me complaining about the tactic being used on me. Its actually the other way around. I am looking at using the tactic and what I would like to see happen.
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Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.07.15 22:31:00 -
[129]
They should remove cloaks and probes from the game so its just like it used to be way back. ~~~
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Baaldor
In Igne Morim
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Posted - 2011.07.16 01:24:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Lady Spank They should remove cloaks and probes from the game so its just like it used to be way back.
Like when there were dual MWD cruise missile spewing kessies?
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Rip Minner
Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
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Posted - 2011.07.16 06:08:00 -
[131]
Personly I think they should remove local and put in new probs that can do nothing other then prob out active cloaks both other wise BO's and other stealth ships become to powerfull.
But at the same time I think it should take like 5-10 mins to prob out a cloaked ship too. And you cant prob out any other ships becouse the probs should only be able to find active cloaks and nothing alse. Have to pull thoughs probs back and relauch the normal combat probs for ships and thoughs probs should not be aloud to find cloaks.
But thats just how I feel about it. I dont feel you should be 100% safe and unprobable no matter what and you diffently should not be in open space and be 100% safe and afk and still know your ship is going to be ok ether.
Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |
Toovhon
|
Posted - 2011.07.16 06:36:00 -
[132]
You're only 100% safe while cloaked. Once you have to move your ship out of the system, or undock if you docked earlier, you're subject to the dangers of gate and station camps.
But really - the FUD that cloakies seem to inspire is largely undeserved. With a little awareness and organisation, it's easy to protect one's self while ratting or mining. It's having to actually lift a finger that bothers the 0.0 carebears - they're worse than highsec carebears who at least know the realities of highsec. -- The Door! |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.16 13:04:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Cendric De'Credsiu Mag's I already answered your questions.
No you haven't.
But this is all pointless argument now, as local is being nerfed.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Flynn Fetladral
Caldari BlackSite Prophecy
|
Posted - 2011.07.16 14:53:00 -
[134]
I don't see the problem with AFK cloaking, furthermore, I don't see how someone who is possibly not even at their computer has a 'tactical' advantage. The only people who this ever really seems to upset is 0.0 ratters in faction fit battleships who log off when a CTA gets called. HTFU.
Follow Flynn on Twitter |
Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
|
Posted - 2011.07.16 15:29:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Baaldor
Originally by: Lady Spank They should remove cloaks and probes from the game so its just like it used to be way back.
Like when there were dual MWD cruise missile spewing kessies?
And Cavalry Ravens, yes please. ~~~
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Time Funnel
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Posted - 2011.07.16 20:29:00 -
[136]
Edited by: Time Funnel on 16/07/2011 20:31:52
Originally by: Miang Hawaa This blatant exploit has gone on long enough. Players should not be allowed to have a tactical advantage while afk at any point. This defines exploit.
Everyone knows it is a problem. It has been for a very long time. Why has nothing been done?
What is being done about this frustrating problem?
This is the direct counter to your botting. So sorry. If CCP cannot stop it then AFK will save us all from robots.
Edit: Oh no these guys not at their computers are preventing me from making ISK while I am not at my computer. Tragedies.
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Lakuma
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Posted - 2011.07.17 02:48:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Time Funnel Edited by: Time Funnel on 16/07/2011 20:31:52
Originally by: Miang Hawaa This blatant exploit has gone on long enough. Players should not be allowed to have a tactical advantage while afk at any point. This defines exploit.
Everyone knows it is a problem. It has been for a very long time. Why has nothing been done?
What is being done about this frustrating problem?
This is the direct counter to your botting. So sorry. If CCP cannot stop it then AFK will save us all from robots.
Edit: Oh no these guys not at their computers are preventing me from making ISK while I am not at my computer. Tragedies.
I read this, laughed, looked at my cat, and immediately realized this had the potential for a lolcat picture. Too bad my camera is broken. T_T
I thought this thread has effectively been shot down - but I guess some dead horses need beating still? Soundwave confirmed local is getting changed, if not outright removed, in nullsec - but it likely won't happen until the winter expansion.
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Toovhon
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Posted - 2011.07.17 06:13:00 -
[138]
Without nullsec local won't they still stay in-station, terrified of what might be out there? After all - if an AFK cloakie scares them silly, imagine what the unknown will do! :-D
Seriously - I doubt any changes made will satisfy these nullsec crybabies. -- The Door! |
Reaver Glitterstim
Legio Geminatus
|
Posted - 2011.07.29 08:01:00 -
[139]
I think CCP should implement an AFK mechanic, and anyone who goes AFK from not moving their mouse or doing anything for a while will be decloaked. If you're actually sitting there looking at your screen when it happens, no problem, just re-cloak. AFK decloaking should not activate the re-cloak timer.
That way, people have to at least check up on their AFK cloaky once in a while. It's one thing to hold up a system, it's another thing entirely to go to the bar while your character holds up a system. --
Thousand Papercuts Project |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2011.07.29 10:35:00 -
[140]
I think the solution is quite obvious. Sov 0.0 needs an upgrade that raises the sec status of the system, so people can bot in peace, protected by CONCORD. There still might be problems with suicide-gankers though, but I'm sure that another system upgrade involving increasing ship resists to 100% would solve that.
After all, Eve is supposed to be a sandbox, so if people want nullsec to be an effort-free, perfectly safe carebear paradise, then CCP must respect their wishes.
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Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
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Posted - 2011.07.29 10:37:00 -
[141]
Edited by: Jint Hikaru on 29/07/2011 10:38:31 Edited by: Jint Hikaru on 29/07/2011 10:38:11
Originally by: Reaver Glitterstim I think CCP should implement an AFK mechanic, and anyone who goes AFK from not moving their mouse or doing anything for a while will be decloaked. If you're actually sitting there looking at your screen when it happens, no problem, just re-cloak. AFK decloaking should not activate the re-cloak timer.
That way, people have to at least check up on their AFK cloaky once in a while. It's one thing to hold up a system, it's another thing entirely to go to the bar while your character holds up a system.
Fine by me, and I presume all the ALK cloakers out there. Thanks for the solution!
I'll just leave this here
Nerf-cloak whiners need to STFU. Protect your space if you want it nice and safe. Don't cry to you mom demanding that CCP changes the game to make it easiuer for you. --- Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum I can tell you that this is one of the moments when we look at what those at CCP will do and less of what they say. |
Dutarro
Matari Munitions The Fendahlian Collective
|
Posted - 2011.07.29 11:20:00 -
[142]
I don't live in 0.0 so forgive me if this suggestion is naive, but here goes ...
An alliance could create its own AFK cloaker insurance fund. Everyone pays a modest premium, and on the rare occasion that an AFK cloaker actually decloaks and kills a ship or two, the owners get a full refund. Therefore, if you see an AFK cloaker on local, you could still keep mining, ratting or whatever without worrying, since you'll get all your stuff back even if he comes after you.
This is one way to adapt to AFK cloakers without any kind of rule change by CCP.
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Syekuda
Hell's Revenge
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Posted - 2011.07.29 12:56:00 -
[143]
I dont know what exactly is being done with CCP on this subject but I know they are doing something about it. I don't have the exact source but 1 dev wrote somewhere here that they are working on the problem. I don't know if it will be out on the winter expansion but it will go out.
and yes, I agree something should be done about this since theres no counter whatsoever about this afk cloaky.
My guess is they will make sure that cloaky will appear on scan when using probes I guess but really idk what they will do. --------------------------------------------------
Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome.
ISAAC ASIMOV |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.29 14:03:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Syekuda I dont know what exactly is being done with CCP on this subject but I know they are doing something about it. I don't have the exact source but 1 dev wrote somewhere here that they are working on the problem. I don't know if it will be out on the winter expansion but it will go out.
and yes, I agree something should be done about this since theres no counter whatsoever about this afk cloaky.
My guess is they will make sure that cloaky will appear on scan when using probes I guess but really idk what they will do.
They are doing something about it? Where is your source?
This is all by the by now anyway, as a nerf to local is incoming with many changes to be made. As it is Local that is the issue here, not the cloak.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Page Starcaster
Gallente Society of lost Souls
|
Posted - 2011.07.29 14:52:00 -
[145]
I see no problem here. Sticking a cloaked alt in another system to monitor what is happening there is the same as using a spy or recon unit in real warfare to find out what your enemies are up to. Most big alliances and any serious null sec fleet commander uses these to watch for counter attacks coming from neighboring systems.
there are some players that leave alts logged in 23/7 sitting cloaked in a system just to grieve the locals. But this is not really an issue. Once you know who these are you can just ignore them. if they are AFK they are no threat. they can not attack you, they can not tell anyone else you are there. If they do attack you, or tell there intel channel they you are in that system, then they are obviously not AFK.
The players that exploit this mechanic are not a threat as they are afk. The players that are a threat, are obviously not afk and thus not exploiting, using this mechanic as intended, for stealth, covert ops, and spying.
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Alexia page
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Posted - 2011.07.29 15:12:00 -
[146]
actually one idea that might actually fix this.
If players were removed from local chat while they are cloaked. this will actually increase the covert ops side of the game that spys could be in system without being seen until they make a hostile action. At the same time AFK cloakers will not be able to grieve because if nobody knows they are there and they do nothing hostile, they will just be ignored as they should be.
In order to balance this however they should add some sort of anti covert ops mechanic. a way that someone can specialize in tracking down a covert ops vessel. The whole point of covert ops is that knowbody knows you are there until you attack. but if they go to the point of removing all non aggressed covert ops cloaked pilots from local we need to have a way of detecting them by actively looking for them when we suspect they are in the system.
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Toovhon
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Posted - 2011.07.29 15:35:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Syekuda I dont know what exactly is being done with CCP on this subject but I know they are doing something about it. I don't have the exact source but 1 dev wrote somewhere here that they are working on the problem. I don't know if it will be out on the winter expansion but it will go out.
and yes, I agree something should be done about this since theres no counter whatsoever about this afk cloaky.
My guess is they will make sure that cloaky will appear on scan when using probes I guess but really idk what they will do.
"since theres no counter whatsoever about this afk cloaky"??? Are you on drugs? Or just really, really lame? You can't think of anything nullsec players can do to defend against a lone AFK cloaker?
May I please know which nullsec system you inhabit? I'd like to run my covert ops ship out there, and perma-cloak on an alt since it obviously scares the crap out of you :-D This is so cool - I can shut down a system with ONE ship and apparently nothing can be done about it! Whoop!
Meanwhile back in reality if you can't think of a single way to deal with a lone AFK cloaker, you're either a carebear botter renting a 0.0 system, or have never actually been in 0.0 yourself. Either way - wouldn't a game like WoW be better suited for you? -- The Door! |
Kaelie Onren
|
Posted - 2011.07.29 15:42:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Dutarro I don't live in 0.0 so forgive me if this suggestion is naive, but here goes ...
An alliance could create its own AFK cloaker insurance fund. Everyone pays a modest premium, and on the rare occasion that an AFK cloaker actually decloaks and kills a ship or two, the owners get a full refund. Therefore, if you see an AFK cloaker on local, you could still keep mining, ratting or whatever without worrying, since you'll get all your stuff back even if he comes after you.
This is one way to adapt to AFK cloakers without any kind of rule change by CCP.
Can you say insurance fraud?
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Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.07.29 16:09:00 -
[149]
In this discussion, cowards are ground to inactivity by a single unseen ship and expect CCP to come and hold their hands for them in what is deemed dangerous space. ~~~
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Osmonde Jr
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.30 19:12:00 -
[150]
Great solution to afker's remove local and so it is just like W space, problem solved. I also think that the same should be for low sec as well let high sec have their local since it is controlled by empire.
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente Federal Defense Operations
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Posted - 2011.07.30 22:45:00 -
[151]
1) The issue isn't "AFK Cloakers", it's your awareness of them. If Local were made into "Recent Speakers" all around, so the only faces you see are people who spoke in the last 15min, you'd have to be paranoid all the time instead of just when you see a strange face.
2) In the spirit of #1, try living in WHs instead of 0.0 where you never know if there's someone lurking. I notice the OP talking about solo ops in 0.0 and yet counters the WH argument by saying "Then have some friends guard the WHs and pull watch". So WH denizens are supposed to travel in groups for safety, but 0.0 dwellers should be allowed to solo through life?
3) The issue isn't "AFK Cloakers", as those are two completely distinct and separate words. "Cloaks" are the counter to Probes, and should be left alone in all regards. The paranoia comes from not knowing whether another player is "AFK". This could be remedied in a number of ways.
- Have a little mark the depicts when someone is AFK. Then you won't try talking to corpies who haven't been around for hours.
- Log players out after lengthy periods of inactivity. There is nothing in the game that requires your presence, but not your involvement. If someone is cloaked, and providing active intel, they are chatting with their fleet/corp/alliance/whatever. That conversation means they are not (A)way (F)rom the (K)eyboard. However, if they are hidden in any regard, whether that's cloaked or just MWD'ing into deep space... and the player is nowhere near their desk... that person is truly AFK.
Of course there are ways macros could prevent someone from "timing out". However, macros are illegal, and would be dealt with on their own.
In summary, Cloaks aren't the problem. As "everything needs a counter", Cloaks are the only true way to counter Probes. Leave them alone.
Go after the real problem. The presence of someone in your system that you don't know.
Either remove the knowledge of their presence (fix Local), make it easier to tell if they're actually a threat (AFK flag), or...
Watch your borders better, and kill people when they invade! - Explosions!
ORE Field Offices
POS vs DUST |
Thomas Turnpoint
|
Posted - 2011.07.30 23:19:00 -
[152]
It's that creeping thought that keeps gnawing at you in the middle of the night, isn't it?
The idea that someone, somewhere, might be AFK Cloaked in a Hulk. __________________________ Obi-wan only felt that way about Mos Eisley because he'd never played Eve Online |
Marcus Gideon
Gallente Federal Defense Operations
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Posted - 2011.07.30 23:26:00 -
[153]
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Toovhon
|
Posted - 2011.07.31 03:38:00 -
[154]
LOL :-D
But seriously, either grow a backbone and deal with the lone AFK cloakie in your system, or press for no more local in 0.0, or local that only shows people who chat. Growing a backbone is obviously beyond most of these whinging carebear botters, so expect more whinging remove local threads soon...
Though without local they'd actually have to defend their borders... uh oh, effort required! That won't work then. -- The Door! |
Ya Huei
|
Posted - 2011.08.02 13:33:00 -
[155]
Can't wait for nerfed local.. nullsec bears will get ****d by w-space visitors :P
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Eperor
|
Posted - 2011.08.02 13:52:00 -
[156]
ccp wil not nerf local dream one WH space work to much difrent then usual space that make the same system waht its in WH space it insane, that measns 0.0 dead nop one will be there. bigest difrenc its trafic, in WH its limited trafick 0.0 dont have such limitations, so than need remove al gates to if remuve local, than all will become one big WH.
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Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.08.02 14:51:00 -
[157]
*looks for decoder ring at bottom of cracker jack box*
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Thomas Turnpoint
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Posted - 2011.08.02 15:31:00 -
[158]
A "nerf" to local would be interesting. If it was definitely coming up on a set date, stocking up on combat scanner probes and expanded probe launchers might be profitable, as even in high sec people will suddenly want them. D-scan will become a hot topic too. Realistically I don't know that removal of local completely would work for anything but WH space. Due to stargates, and the presence of Concord in high sec, I am guessing that the suggested nerf to local is to add a delay. The lower the sec status, the longer the delay. Plus this would leave WH-space with one of it's unique aspects.
Cloaking is not broken, it is not suddenly turned into an exploit if someone is not staring at their computer screen with their hands on the keys.
ps: should bump this thread when needed so it stays near the top, specifically to try and cut down on the deluge of threads on this very topic.
__________________________ Obi-wan only felt that way about Mos Eisley because he'd never played Eve Online |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.08.02 18:13:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Eperor ccp wil not nerf local dream one WH space work to much difrent then usual space that make the same system waht its in WH space it insane, that measns 0.0 dead nop one will be there. bigest difrenc its trafic, in WH its limited trafick 0.0 dont have such limitations, so than need remove al gates to if remuve local, than all will become one big WH.
Local nerf is coming very soon.
Also, wat?
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Toovhon
|
Posted - 2011.08.02 18:45:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Eperor ccp wil not nerf local dream one WH space work to much difrent then usual space that make the same system waht its in WH space it insane, that measns 0.0 dead nop one will be there. bigest difrenc its trafic, in WH its limited trafick 0.0 dont have such limitations, so than need remove al gates to if remuve local, than all will become one big WH.
Sad thing is, this person almost certainly uses English as a first language. -- The Door! |
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Joachim Vaug
|
Posted - 2011.08.02 21:36:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Miang Hawaa WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Just minimize your local chat, you'll be fine...
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Dravidshky
|
Posted - 2011.08.02 21:42:00 -
[162]
I want some sort of anti cloaking feature not for afk cloakers in 0.0 but for cloaked orcas hiding in WH systems. I had an intruder in my WH system who flew an orca with his alt in which he kept all his other ships, like a tengu and some cov ops frigates. I knew it was online cause I managed to add both his chars to my watchlist, and I knew he was still there cause once in a while an orca would show up on D-scan. Now imo there should be some way of probing down something the size of an orca, cloak or no cloak, maybe not so I could land on it at 0m but at least some way of finding it and killing it.
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Toovhon
|
Posted - 2011.08.03 05:10:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Dravidshky I want some sort of anti cloaking feature not for afk cloakers in 0.0 but for cloaked orcas hiding in WH systems. I had an intruder in my WH system who flew an orca with his alt in which he kept all his other ships, like a tengu and some cov ops frigates. I knew it was online cause I managed to add both his chars to my watchlist, and I knew he was still there cause once in a while an orca would show up on D-scan. Now imo there should be some way of probing down something the size of an orca, cloak or no cloak, maybe not so I could land on it at 0m but at least some way of finding it and killing it.
Train up your scan skills, and get the jump on him next time he de-cloaks. Or whine *shrug* -- The Door! |
razumenko
|
Posted - 2011.08.03 12:18:00 -
[164]
I understand both point of view: - afk cloak is in the game so stfu and adapt or die - afk cloak is a cheat
But eve if the game is accept this mechanism there is a problem int the balance between risk and the capacity of the afk cloaker: A simple scenario: You see somebody in your local you take your pvp ship and go for it :) but no way to found it. So you make a pve fleet to warp in case of. At the moment one of the best way to rats it's to use t3 ship so it's around 1B ship. Because of that guy in local you check your overview for ship incoming and probe if is afk or not it doesn't change anything and it's ok. Now if the guy use for exemple a covert ship, with covert cyno. you warp into anomaly the guy warp cloaky in the same anomaly as you. And now he discrupt or scramble you because you have not a missile boat and you need to get close to the target so you can't be align. You are scramble he opens his cyno and 4 bombers pop. you scream to everybody to warp in but you are already dead. (so 1B ship :'() Your fleet arrive kill all the bombers the guy with the covert cyno (4*30M + 30M) and you kill for 150M. So compare to investment it's nothing and it means that you can't farm alone to at least get revenge. Stated to that, for me there is just a problem with the way cloaky ship works. For the afk if guy as to uncloak every 30 minutes, it will be fair, if the guy cannot use the directionnal scan when cloaky, it's fair if he cannot use the anno scanner it's fair too. But at the moment you can scan somebody taking no risk and be safe as long as you are cloaky warp on a guy scramble him kill him and go :'(
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Lance Stratos
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Posted - 2011.08.05 00:14:00 -
[165]
YES does something need to be done about it. but what can we do, some people are fine with it, but for those highsec carebears to those in null sec its like war targets coming into your system and camping you in. MAYBE you can use a less expensive ship (like many of us do when it happens), but when it comes down to it what can we do? change the cloaking mechanic? make an auto kick after x minutes of inactivity? Have the answer before you post a problem.
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David Fightmaster
Gallente The Black Legionnares Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2011.08.05 00:37:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Miang Hawaa
Quote: What blatant exploit? I see no blatant exploit.
It is tragic that I have to spell this out for you.
An enemy's presence in a system causes numerous problems for locals. In general, people will not do anything outside sit in a pvp fleet when neutrals or reds, even just one, is present in a system. This means no isk generating of any kind, including mining and ratting without significant risk. Complexes are out of the question for fear that the enemy happens to have probing capabilities. Even well tanked ships are potentially at risk because we don't know if the enemy has a cyno.
So their mere presence can halt isk production in a system. Here comes the exploit: they can have this major tactical ability without even being near their computer. Just leaving your character logged in and cloaked while you're at work is exploitation of game mechanics when it can so drastically affect so many people.
Quote: I see no problem here but your inability to adapt.
Explain what counter measures you can employ against this.
FAIL!!!! LMAO. I suffer from afk cloakers all the time. Deal with it or go to high sec. Your choice.
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Wizlawz
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Posted - 2011.08.05 20:33:00 -
[167]
i could see if microtransactions were a big part of making isk, but since it is not.
a possible solution would be and probably should be that after a certain amount of inactivity IE: not probing, not chatting, etc then maybe auto log off would be in order.
however if this was to be implemented then those seeking low sec iskies who can cloak and wait out a system for the "prime time" to farm low sec would be hindered.
i do see your point though, however beings i do come from realms where microtransactions effect ingame economy, not making any isk where you can withdraw into cash is no big deal imho.
the thing i don't understand is while cloaked if ship is moving why it is not picked up as some kind of anomally from the propulsion say if u had scanner / probers looking for said ship.
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Earl Comstock
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2011.08.06 11:12:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Marcus Gideon Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 30/07/2011 23:04:56
Log players out after lengthy periods of inactivity. There is nothing in the game that requires your presence, but not your involvement.
Agree entirely with your sentiment, but this is wrong. Remote fleet boosters function perfectly "present but uninvolved."
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Vex Seraphim
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2011.08.09 07:40:00 -
[169]
Dear Original Poster, i would like to redirect your attention to a real exploit that has been plaguing eve for a long while. And what's more - i'll do that in your own words.
Seeing names in local chat.
Originally by: Miang Hawaa This blatant exploit has gone on long enough.
I know, i agree it is and it has.
Originally by: Miang Hawaa Players should not be allowed to have a tactical advantage
of scouting a system by simply jumping there. or of seeing an enemy without actively scanning for one.
Originally by: Miang Hawaa This defines exploit.
Originally by: Miang Hawaa Everyone knows it is a problem. It has been for a very long time. Why has nothing been done? What is being done about this frustrating problem?
See what i did there?
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Eperor
|
Posted - 2011.08.09 09:25:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Toovhon
Originally by: Eperor ccp wil not nerf local dream one WH space work to much difrent then usual space that make the same system waht its in WH space it insane, that measns 0.0 dead nop one will be there. bigest difrenc its trafic, in WH its limited trafick 0.0 dont have such limitations, so than need remove al gates to if remuve local, than all will become one big WH.
Sad thing is, this person almost certainly uses English as a first language.
English its my 5 language with i know so worst from all off them.
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Mr Stark
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Posted - 2011.08.09 09:31:00 -
[171]
Whilst cloaking in system to disrupt isk making etc is a totally valid tactic, I agree that loggin gin after DT, cloak up and go to work/school/out for teh day, sleeping, then doing the same thing after next DT is to my mind not in the spirit of gameplay.
Disrupting peoples in gmae supply lines, isk making, totally valid, doing it afk 23.5/7 is not.
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Lady Spank
Amarr In Praise Of Shadows
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Posted - 2011.08.09 12:40:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Mr Stark Whilst cloaking in system to disrupt isk making etc is a totally valid tactic, I agree that loggin gin after DT, cloak up and go to work/school/out for teh day, sleeping, then doing the same thing after next DT is to my mind not in the spirit of gameplay.
Disrupting peoples in gmae supply lines, isk making, totally valid, doing it afk 23.5/7 is not.
Move next door or stop being a pansy. ~~~
Screenshot batch compression |
Jovan Geldon
Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2011.08.10 08:28:00 -
[173]
There is already a solution to AFK cloakers.
Simply minimize Local.
There you go. That nasty AFK cloaker has completely disappeared from your screen.
ISK to Jovan Geldon, Lead Farmers please. ---------------
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Eperor
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Posted - 2011.08.10 09:45:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Jovan Geldon There is already a solution to AFK cloakers.
Simply minimize Local.
There you go. That nasty AFK cloaker has completely disappeared from your screen.
ISK to Jovan Geldon, Lead Farmers please.
And all bils for ships send to you when next to raters opens cov ops cyno after cov ops pilots was 2 weeks afk clouckign in system. to get target no need 2 weeks sit afking in system.
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Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.10 19:19:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Eperor And all bils for ships send to you when next to raters opens cov ops cyno after cov ops pilots was 2 weeks afk clouckign in system. to get target no need 2 weeks sit afking in system.
Solution: don't rat in a system with an AFK cloaker
hth Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER SO THAT I CAN HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD |
Aramis Rosicrux
Gallente Ordo Rosa Crux Templaris
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Posted - 2011.08.10 20:48:00 -
[176]
This tactic is "Carebearing" for PvPers and needs to be balanced. The problem is there is no risk to the cloaked lurker.
I suggest some ANTI - CLOAK modules.
Thoughts???
Aramis Rosicrux
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Torenc
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Posted - 2011.08.11 11:41:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Lykouleon
Originally by: Eperor And all bils for ships send to you when next to raters opens cov ops cyno after cov ops pilots was 2 weeks afk clouckign in system. to get target no need 2 weeks sit afking in system.
Solution: don't rat in a system with an AFK cloaker
hth
thing its such wie was in smaller allince than wie are curently and if allaince have only 3-6 sytems to rat, so imagene wath hapens if there i nal sytems are clouckers wie expirenced that, was no place to rat att all. and that was for 2-3 month so each day there was afk clouckers but if soem one trued to rat his ship after couple hours was blowen up. means they chaking the game but verry rer. so way such play style need to be suported, if you are cloucked look on your screen with your char and dont move from you PC until you not log off or leave system. eve nice miner brings more activity in game and eforce then clouckers, and if soem one wil say they not geting rewarded that thet its wrong they have rewards from loot atleast and intel try bots.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.08.11 19:05:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Aramis Rosicrux This tactic is "Carebearing" for PvPers and needs to be balanced. The problem is there is no risk to the cloaked lurker.
I suggest some ANTI - CLOAK modules.
Thoughts???
Aramis Rosicrux
Wrong. AFK cloaking is a somewhat viable solution to local. But local is being nerfed soon, so I'll enjoy your whines when it is.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Torenc
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Posted - 2011.08.12 14:00:00 -
[179]
Edited by: Torenc on 12/08/2011 14:00:33
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Aramis Rosicrux This tactic is "Carebearing" for PvPers and needs to be balanced. The problem is there is no risk to the cloaked lurker.
I suggest some ANTI - CLOAK modules.
Thoughts???
Aramis Rosicrux
Wrong. AFK cloaking is a somewhat viable solution to local. But local is being nerfed soon, so I'll enjoy your whines when it is.
IF local wil be nerfed wilbe only one ting no ratter in 0.0 noo0ne wil risk his ship for sanctum. or wath ever good anomaly. All will grind isk in high sec with alts so that will be the way wath you wish to make.
Allrweady with last nerfs off 0.0 about 40 % off 0.0 po9pulation left 0.0 fariming in 0.0 alone and warms in high sec misions.
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Cynoska McNamara
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Posted - 2011.08.12 15:23:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Torenc IF local wil be nerfed wilbe only one ting no ratter in 0.0 noo0ne wil risk his ship for sanctum. or wath ever good anomaly. All will grind isk in high sec with alts so that will be the way wath you wish to make.
Allrweady with last nerfs off 0.0 about 40 % off 0.0 po9pulation left 0.0 fariming in 0.0 alone and warms in high sec misions.
I agree. With local removing, 0.0 will be just a pirate zone. No reign will grow. 0.0 is done for military forces and citizens. Don't think just like a pirate. The pirates usually have the presumption to be the only ones to play the right way. But remember pirates play to DESTROY. Others play to BUILD. You can't DESTROY if someone can't BUILD.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.08.12 17:53:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
Originally by: Torenc IF local wil be nerfed wilbe only one ting no ratter in 0.0 noo0ne wil risk his ship for sanctum. or wath ever good anomaly. All will grind isk in high sec with alts so that will be the way wath you wish to make.
Allrweady with last nerfs off 0.0 about 40 % off 0.0 po9pulation left 0.0 fariming in 0.0 alone and warms in high sec misions.
I agree. With local removing, 0.0 will be just a pirate zone. No reign will grow. 0.0 is done for military forces and citizens. Don't think just like a pirate. The pirates usually have the presumption to be the only ones to play the right way. But remember pirates play to DESTROY. Others play to BUILD. You can't DESTROY if someone can't BUILD.
It's nice to see you both admit, just how powerful the local intel channel is. I will mourn your loss.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Mai Terrak
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Posted - 2011.08.13 12:33:00 -
[182]
Now, most have been bantering back and forth about 'OMG AFK cloakers ruin the game' and 'STFU whiner'. Now I agree that cloaking is part of the game, and that there should be that feel of psychological warfare, but I also agree with the not having the person afk. maybe adding a mechanic in where the person has to click a dialog box every half hour when there is no activity, booting them from the game (Hell do this with anyone that's just afking in general.)
Or maybe requiring some sort of fuel source for the cloaking ships would be a better solution. This would make the cloaker have to think a bit too as they would have to plan just how long they could stay out before having to get out and refuel.
Just my two cents into the whole conversation.
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Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.08.14 00:25:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Mai Terrak Now, most have been bantering back and forth about 'OMG AFK cloakers ruin the game' and 'STFU whiner'. Now I agree that cloaking is part of the game, and that there should be that feel of psychological warfare, but I also agree with the not having the person afk. maybe adding a mechanic in where the person has to click a dialog box every half hour when there is no activity, booting them from the game (Hell do this with anyone that's just afking in general.)
Or maybe requiring some sort of fuel source for the cloaking ships would be a better solution. This would make the cloaker have to think a bit too as they would have to plan just how long they could stay out before having to get out and refuel.
Just my two cents into the whole conversation.
Proposed countless times before and reject just as many times.
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Dub Step
Minmatar Death To Everyone But Us
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Posted - 2011.08.14 02:02:00 -
[184]
The problem is not with the cloaker, but with the cowards that can't accept 0.0 involves risk.
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Diablo Ex
Caldari The Devil's Reject's
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Posted - 2011.08.14 05:01:00 -
[185]
I sit in my little tissue box, hidden from view and marvel at the pathetic creatures who live in null sec, and REFUSE to defend themselves or their turf. All it would take is a few noble PvP pilots to stand over-watch on the fleet of miners, or guard the convoy. But ...NO, they cry foul, unfair...
________________________________ I want a button that will force you to undock out of the station so I can shoot you.
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Cynoska McNamara
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Posted - 2011.08.14 08:11:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Diablo Ex I sit in my little tissue box, hidden from view and marvel at the pathetic creatures who live in null sec, and REFUSE to defend themselves or their turf. All it would take is a few noble PvP pilots to stand over-watch on the fleet of miners, or guard the convoy. But ...NO, they cry foul, unfair...
And what about intel infos that a AFK cloacker could collect for enemy alliances without the possibility to expel it? Owners of a system should be able to repel an enemy. The cloak module makes a spy invulnerable and untouchable.
The real cryer are AFK cloackers who do not want to lose this privilege.
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Dub Step
Minmatar Death To Everyone But Us
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Posted - 2011.08.14 09:05:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
The real cryer are AFK cloackers who do not want to lose this privilege.
Considering they are at no risk of losing anything I don't see why.
Also, how do they gather intel if they are AFK?
Looking through your posts it's clear who the real crybaby is in this discussion.
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Cynoska McNamara
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Posted - 2011.08.14 12:25:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Dub Step
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
The real cryer are AFK cloackers who do not want to lose this privilege.
Considering they are at no risk of losing anything I don't see why.
Also, how do they gather intel if they are AFK?
Looking through your posts it's clear who the real crybaby is in this discussion.
This shows that you do not know the purpose and how the role of AFK cloaker. There are many tools that capture information about corporations that operate in a system. You let the logs record the names of the pilots and the ships they drive. You can check what are the best time slot to make an attack .. and much more.
And this force the players to operate always under guard, causing a slowdown in the production chain, causing harm to the economy of the alliance. 1000 hours spent AFK + 5 (random) hours spent in piracy = clock bomb effect. You have made a system unusable while you sleep peacefully, or while you're shopping (because we don't know when are you really AFK or when you are waiting for a perfect moment to strike an attack)
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Dub Step
Minmatar Death To Everyone But Us
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Posted - 2011.08.14 12:41:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 14/08/2011 12:34:43
Originally by: Dub Step
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
The real cryer are AFK cloackers who do not want to lose this privilege.
Considering they are at no risk of losing anything I don't see why.
Also, how do they gather intel if they are AFK?
Looking through your posts it's clear who the real crybaby is in this discussion.
This shows that you do not know the purpose and how the role of AFK cloaker. There are many tools that capture information about corporations that operate in a system. You let the logs record the names of the pilots and the ships they drive. You can check what are the best time slot to make an attack .. and much more.
And this force the players to operate always under guard, causing a slowdown in the production chain, causing harm to the economy of the alliance. 1000 hours spent AFK + 5 (random) hours spent in piracy = clock bomb effect. You have made a system unusable while you sleep peacefully, or while you're shopping (because we don't know when are you really AFK or when you are waiting for a perfect moment to strike an attack)
You will get bored waiting as we get bored waiting for you.
my logs dont show that info, maybe you should be petitioning against use of intel gathering macros, not cloaked ships doing noting.
You mention being forced to 'operate under guard'. It's 0.0, you should be doing this anyway. Why shouldn't people be able to influence your economy? This is a key element of warfare.
There is no such thing as piracy in null sec, for piracy to occur there must be laws to be broken.
Again, cloakers DO NOT make a system unusable, your coawardice and unwillingness to do anything while a random ship sits doing no harm is what makes the system unusable. Grow a pair for goodness sake. If you can't handle a single red in your system doing nothing then you don't deserve the right to use that space.
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Cynoska McNamara
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Posted - 2011.08.14 16:08:00 -
[190]
Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 14/08/2011 16:11:18
Originally by: Dub Step You mention being forced to 'operate under guard'. It's 0.0, you should be doing this anyway.
This shows how poor is your 0.0 life as citizen and productor. You are a pirate.. you can't understand.
Your fury against this thread shows how AFK Cloaker is a necessary role to your gameplay. You call others "cowards" when you're the first to fear a change. Prove that a cloak device with the fuel (or charge) ruin your game .. then you are right. Do not hide behind your "You are a carebear".
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Danika Princip
Minmatar Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.08.14 16:51:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 14/08/2011 16:11:18
Originally by: Dub Step You mention being forced to 'operate under guard'. It's 0.0, you should be doing this anyway.
This shows how poor is your 0.0 life as citizen and productor. You are a pirate.. you can't understand.
Your fury against this thread shows how AFK Cloaker is a necessary role to your gameplay. You call others "cowards" when you're the first to fear a change. Prove that a cloak device with the fuel (or charge) ruin your game .. then you are right. Do not hide behind your "You are a carebear".
What kind of 0.0 do you live in where you don't have to take care?
I don't AFK cloak, but I also don't think anythign at all should be done about it. if they are AFK, they aren't going to hurt you, just don't talk in local when there's one in your system and they aren't going to be gathering any intel while AFK.
If cloaking device fuel comes in, all of you NERF CLOAKING idiots will be on here whining about that after the first time you forget to bring cloak fuel and suddenly find yourself completely unable to hide from a hostile gang (I for one put cloaks on my haulers when I do PI ****, I've relied on those several times when roaming gangs roll though).
you ARE a carebear. If there's one red AFK cloaking, just rat with a buddy or two. One guy in a cloaky ship isn't going to take all of you. It's nullsec, HTFU.
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Dub Step
Minmatar Death To Everyone But Us
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Posted - 2011.08.14 17:50:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Dub Step You mention being forced to 'operate under guard'. It's 0.0, you should be doing this anyway.
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara This shows how poor is your 0.0 life as citizen and productor. You are a pirate.. you can't understand.
You expect to have risk free ratting without protecting yourself and you claim I have the poor understanding. Laughable
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara Your fury against this thread shows how AFK Cloaker is a necessary role to your gameplay.
Yes, my reasoned arguments show I am completely enraged by this 'threat' to cloaking. I can't even use a cloaking device and have no intention to waste electricity 'denying service' to other players.
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara You call others "cowards" when you're the first to fear a change.
Prove that a cloak device with the fuel (or charge) ruin your game .. then you are right.
First: I don't fear anything and certainly have no reason to believe these whiny threads are ever going to lead to a change to cloaking.
Second: I can't prove a cloak device with fuel will ruin my game because it wouldn't. You probably meant something else and need to rephrase this statement.
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara Do not hide behind your "You are a carebear".
Who's hiding? You clearly are a carebear, a pretty incompetent one at that since you can't seem to find the jumpgate next door, or simply let an afk player stop all your activity.
Furthermore I could say do not hide behind your "You are a pirate", but it's a stupid thing to say so I wont.
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Kyr Evotorin
Psycho Tech Industries
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Posted - 2011.08.14 20:53:00 -
[193]
Everyone is so mad... can't we just ignore the people who are obviously lacking logic?
intel channel(s)? *check* cloaky in system? *check* AFK? *the world will never know (after 3 licks of the lollipop)* Omnitank? *Check* In standing fleet? *check*
You win.
Was that so hard?
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Dub Step
Minmatar Death To Everyone But Us
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Posted - 2011.08.14 21:04:00 -
[194]
Apparently things like that are unrealistic to expect of a group of people in contestable and lawless space.
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Gabriel Karade
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.08.14 22:19:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
Originally by: Diablo Ex I sit in my little tissue box, hidden from view and marvel at the pathetic creatures who live in null sec, and REFUSE to defend themselves or their turf. All it would take is a few noble PvP pilots to stand over-watch on the fleet of miners, or guard the convoy. But ...NO, they cry foul, unfair...
And what about intel infos that a AFK cloacker could collect for enemy alliances without the possibility to expel it? Owners of a system should be able to repel an enemy. The cloak module makes a spy invulnerable and untouchable.
The real cryer are AFK cloackers who do not want to lose this privilege.
How does someone who is 'afk' collect intel?....
*facepalm*
P.s I don't know who these 'cloackers' are but they sound like a cool bunch of guys --------------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Uncle Smokey
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Posted - 2011.08.14 23:00:00 -
[196]
Find a way around it in-game. .:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. \o/ EVERYBODY SAY HELL YEAH! \o/ |
OMGWTFResearch
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Posted - 2011.08.15 04:53:00 -
[197]
"Stop crying to CCP to fix something that needs to stay the way it is. You wussy hisec freighter pilots need to put up a CAP and pull yourselves up by your bootstraps we are NOT exploiting the game to get virtually free kills and loot that is ALWAYS worth more then the loss of our battleships when CONCORD shows up too late adapt or die in EVE"
Oh wait wrong topic and wrong time. This was the random pro risk free gank argument that followed claims that CCP would never fix the issue. Tho you could change a few words and have the same argument the pro risk free AFK cloakers have.
NOTHING new here. They flood into topics and scream and claim that CCP will never change things even tho they are making flawed argument after argument as if they do indeed fear CCP will find time to fix this. Now once CCP fixes the issues that prevent them from nerfing AFK-CLoaking get ready for topics full of people claiming to be leaving. |
Ya Huei
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Posted - 2011.08.15 08:21:00 -
[198]
Yep those would be all the nullsec bears cancelling their subs when their precious local gets nerfed.
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Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.08.15 09:27:00 -
[199]
Originally by: OMGWTFResearch "Stop crying to CCP to fix something that needs to stay the way it is. You wussy hisec freighter pilots need to put up a CAP and pull yourselves up by your bootstraps
Relax. I am a hisec (err any sec) freighter pilot, and I'm on your side. Don't generalize. Keep your arguments to the point and within reason. I believe that letting the AFK whiners spout their whiny senseless broken logic only serves to prove our point. As long as we in turn do not play their game of generalization and fallacy.
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Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.08.15 09:35:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 14/08/2011 16:11:18
Originally by: Dub Step You mention being forced to 'operate under guard'. It's 0.0, you should be doing this anyway.
This shows how poor is your 0.0 life as citizen and productor. You are a pirate.. you can't understand.
Your fury against this thread shows how AFK Cloaker is a necessary role to your gameplay. You call others "cowards" when you're the first to fear a change. Prove that a cloak device with the fuel (or charge) ruin your game .. then you are right. Do not hide behind your "You are a carebear".
Assumptions, assumptions.. baseless assumptions.
Well, yours is that you think that your part of null sec is 'yours' What exactly makes it yours? You can't block out spies and intel gatherers in real life, so what makes you think that you are entitled to in the game?
I once a long time ago supported the addition of some new expensive sovereignty upgrade module like a "tachyon pulse" which would decloak all cloaked ships in the system. (and to an extent, still do if done properly, and done with the addition of the removal of local in nullsec), but you wouldn't use it all the time anyway, as it would cost a lot of stront or some other fuel. Would you? Miners should just get pvp friends to guard the gates if you are paranoid simple as that. If you don't guard your gates, then you have no right calling that system 'yours'
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Cynoska McNamara
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Posted - 2011.08.15 10:06:00 -
[201]
Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 15/08/2011 10:09:26 Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 15/08/2011 10:07:26
Originally by: Kaelie Onren Well, yours is that you think that your part of null sec is 'yours' What exactly makes it yours?
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sovereignty_guide
Originally by: Kaelie Onren You can't block out spies and intel gatherers in real life, so what makes you think that you are entitled to in the game?
This is ridiculous. In real life, the spies can be identified and captured. There are dedicated units of Intelligence for this purpose (the famous "counterintelligence").
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Danika Princip
Minmatar Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.08.15 10:38:00 -
[202]
Edited by: Danika Princip on 15/08/2011 10:38:49
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 15/08/2011 10:09:26 Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 15/08/2011 10:07:26
Originally by: Kaelie Onren Well, yours is that you think that your part of null sec is 'yours' What exactly makes it yours?
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sovereignty_guide
Originally by: Kaelie Onren You can't block out spies and intel gatherers in real life, so what makes you think that you are entitled to in the game?
This is ridiculous. In real life, the spies can be identified and captured. There are dedicated units of Intelligence for this purpose (the famous "counterintelligence").
yes. 100% of all real life spies are always and without fail caught within five minutes.
Think of the AFK cloaker as the Chinese/Russian/French/whoever spy satellite over your house right now. Good luck catching that.
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Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.08.15 11:12:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 15/08/2011 10:09:26 Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 15/08/2011 10:07:26
Originally by: Kaelie Onren Well, yours is that you think that your part of null sec is 'yours' What exactly makes it yours?
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sovereignty_guide
Originally by: Kaelie Onren You can't block out spies and intel gatherers in real life, so what makes you think that you are entitled to in the game?
This is ridiculous. In real life, the spies can be identified and captured. There are dedicated units of Intelligence for this purpose (the famous "counterintelligence").
Thanks for quoting the obvious sherlock. I presume that you thought that I don't know sovereignty works, which is the reason you thought to show how little you read into the responses on the thread by posting the link. Yet, immediately after, I just suggested an infinitely better way of handling afk cloakers, yet you didn't even bother to respond to that, either with a 'yeah, that may also work' or 'that doesn't solve my issue because' argument. Which only shows to all the readers of this thread, that you aren't really considering all solutions to your 'problem' just your own solution. (which just happens to gimp all users of cloaks, not just the one off case of a covert ops cloaker in null sec.
And PS, just because you have sov, doesn't mean you OWN the system sherlock. (please show me where read this) If it did, then presumably the gates wouldn't let any strangers jump through. (good luck with that proposal) It only means that you have the option to build and operate Outposts and infra hubs in the system, and to enjoy the benefits from said outposts and infra hubs. It also gives defensive bonuses to defending said assets. But of course, you knew that already. I mean, you read the link you sent me after all. :P
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Kyr Evotorin
Psycho Tech Industries
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Posted - 2011.08.15 16:57:00 -
[204]
hey... isn't this thread here to see support or lack thereof? obviously some of you are stuck on technicalities of parts of posts that don't even relate to AFK cloakers.
Explain your support or lack thereof. Acknowledge that not many people are bright to begin with. Hope that your point gets across to people with a brain. end.
Raging doesn't help anyone. it just derails a thread.
I don't support this. 1. not an exploit unless explicitly stated as one by CCP. 2. AFK players do nothing but instill a fear of the possibility that one ship will attack you in one system. *Standing fleet* *Intel Channel* *Fit omni-tank* win. 3. The op says everyone knows it is a problem. It is a problem to someone not willing to take a risk. Nullsec is about risk vs. reward. 4. The op asks why nothing has been done. 4+ years. nothing has been done. do you know why? because CCP either a. doesn't believe it is a problem, or b. has it low on priorities, because it isn't much of a problem.
Facts are: People are mad because they don't like to feel unsafe. Unfortunately, those people want money. The desire for game money + the lack of risk taking = someone feeling their time is wasted. (in nullsec ofc). The lack of preparation for those that do risk is the reason for lost ships. Being prepared still means you are risking something, but an active standing fleet can make your loss worth something. That something would be the removal of the most recent cloaky in system. (if this makes no sense to you, uninstall).
please... please... stop being emotional wrecks in the AH... it looks terrible. I throw LogicSticks at people. Sup. |
Uncle Smokey
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Posted - 2011.08.15 20:41:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara This is ridiculous. In real life, the spies can be identified and captured. There are dedicated units of Intelligence for this purpose (the famous "counterintelligence").
In real life spies are not hiding in f*ing deep space. And even if they were, you wouldn't be able to find them, even if you knew they were (somewhere).
It's not the spy itself that's bothering you. It's the fact that you know he's there, and you take that information for granted. Now you want to take even more for granted.
Nerf local instead. .:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. \o/ EVERYBODY SAY HELL YEAH! \o/ |
OMGWTFResearch
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Posted - 2011.08.15 20:46:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Ya Huei Yep those would be all the nullsec bears cancelling their subs when their precious local gets nerfed.
You do realize that Local intel is not being nerfed. It is being replaced with a better intel tool.
I quite wonder just how many will quit when they discover that the new intel will likely be far better instead of the WH like nothing they expect 00 to become.
Now in the other topic there is discussion on a new type of hull designed to hunt down those who think they can sit in a system cloaked and be safe all day. Personally I think it ought to be an expensive module that only works on the destroyer hull. This would give Destroyers a job similar to those in the Navy today and make them a target worth attacking again. |
Uncle Smokey
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Posted - 2011.08.15 20:56:00 -
[207]
Edited by: Uncle Smokey on 15/08/2011 20:59:34
Originally by: OMGWTFResearch Now in the other topic there is discussion on a new type of hull designed to hunt down those who think they can sit in a system cloaked and be safe all day. Personally I think it ought to be an expensive module that only works on the destroyer hull. This would give Destroyers a job similar to those in the Navy today and make them a target worth attacking again.
That would nerf the whole stealth game to hell, like it even needed it. And only to make the game more comfortable for few noisy people.
Limiting cloaking time is the only reasonable idea. But stealth should NOT be nerfed in any way while local chat exists. .:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. \o/ EVERYBODY SAY HELL YEAH! \o/ |
OMGWTFResearch
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Posted - 2011.08.15 22:08:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Uncle Smokey Edited by: Uncle Smokey on 15/08/2011 20:59:34
Originally by: OMGWTFResearch Now in the other topic there is discussion on a new type of hull designed to hunt down those who think they can sit in a system cloaked and be safe all day. Personally I think it ought to be an expensive module that only works on the destroyer hull. This would give Destroyers a job similar to those in the Navy today and make them a target worth attacking again.
That would nerf the whole stealth game to hell, like it even needed it. And only to make the game more comfortable for few noisy people.
Limiting cloaking time is the only reasonable idea. But stealth should NOT be nerfed in any way while local chat exists.
Considering that uncloaking someone in a system requires a hell of alot of time and skill with the proposed module. An active pilot can simply warp off or get out of range. Recloak after the short cooldown and resume his activities.
Meanwhile those who are AFK either wont get the warning and be exposed to be destroyed or the bot that runs his client will eventually be exposed and banned by CCP.
Take the AFK out of the picture without ruining the legitimate uses for Stealth. |
Johnny May
|
Posted - 2011.08.15 22:15:00 -
[209]
someone afk cannot do anything to you, someone not afk is not what your post is targeted at
whats your point again?
|
Uncle Smokey
|
Posted - 2011.08.15 22:27:00 -
[210]
Sure. But as long as it's impossible to even move around the space undetected (making any true recon/warfare impossible in the game), any nerf to stealth would be just strapping crap on a broken- or at least bad mechanic.
Local is the worst immersion breaker in the whole game and a bad alternative to more advanced mechanics. Building anything on it would just make everything worse. .:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. \o/ EVERYBODY SAY HELL YEAH! \o/ |
|
OMGWTFResearch
|
Posted - 2011.08.15 22:36:00 -
[211]
Originally by: Uncle Smokey Sure. But as long as it's impossible to even move around the space undetected (making any true recon/warfare impossible in the game), any nerf to stealth would be just strapping crap on a broken- or at least bad mechanic.
Local is the worst immersion breaker in the whole game and a bad alternative to more advanced mechanics. Building anything on it would just make everything worse.
This isn't a topic about local. Keep it about the cloaking.
It isn't a nerf to stealth. It's a nerf to anyone who is dumb enough to be AFK after the change. Those who are active can know when they are about to be decloaked and move away for the cooldown. Resuming their recon afterwards.
Very simple very effective. No need for stealth fuel or even random decloaks. Make the destroyer useful for the task and make those who really put in the time instead of minimizing and going to get a burger a much bigger threat and use. |
Es Hai
Skyforger Tactical Narcotics Team
|
Posted - 2011.08.15 23:07:00 -
[212]
supported
|
Dub Step
Minmatar Death To Everyone But Us
|
Posted - 2011.08.16 05:46:00 -
[213]
That illiterate crybaby mentioned something about counter-intelligence. I think he is doing a fantastic job of demonstrating counter-intelligence in this thread.
|
Uncle Smokey
|
Posted - 2011.08.16 12:18:00 -
[214]
Originally by: OMGWTFResearch
This isn't a topic about local. Keep it about the cloaking.
How wasn't it about stealth or changes to it? Keep it to yourself. I just said as long as we have a much bigger underlying problem, a small detail like afk cloakers isn't worth sh*t, like the work of creating and balancing new modules just to give diapers to those who feel eve-pants aren't comfortable enough.
Originally by: Dub Step That illiterate crybaby mentioned something about counter-intelligence. I think he is doing a fantastic job of demonstrating counter-intelligence in this thread.
Well played :D .:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. \o/ EVERYBODY SAY HELL YEAH! \o/ |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.08.16 13:24:00 -
[215]
Originally by: OMGWTFResearch This isn't a topic about local. Keep it about the cloaking.
It's all about local. Without local, AFK cloaking would be pointless as a psychological warfare tool.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Ya Huei
|
Posted - 2011.08.16 15:43:00 -
[216]
Originally by: OMGWTFResearch
You do realize that Local intel is not being nerfed. It is being replaced with a better intel tool.
You do realize that u just pulled that out of thin air right ? There's been no details whatsoever about how nullsec intel will work.
|
Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.08.16 23:21:00 -
[217]
Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 16/08/2011 23:26:36 I'm going to toss out some ideas for both sides here.
Local is powerful, but it does have story precedence. Every stargate has the records of who has jumped in. That so much is public knowledge. So local is not some omniscient 'immersion breaker'. You get that info via your NEOCOM via the fluidnet. That's why W-space doesn't have it, there are no stargates to record entry and exits, and no stargates to perpetuate inter-system fluidnet.
Now the destroyer idea is interesting (though not new), and actually may be doable. Must make sure its balanced, and requires a lot of skills to get good enough to find cloakers, or use the modules that can send the tach pulses that will reveal cloakers. It has precedence as well, destroyers have little purpose these days, except as cheap non-noctis salvagers, make a new class of destroyer and have them be the only ones that can fit this new mod.
The mod should not decloak a cloaker. It should only make a cloaker visible to combat probes. Cloakers should be able to see the use of the pulse as 'fluctuations' in there cloaking device. They can decide to warp away, which makes the task of actually locking down a active cloaker very very hard, requiring a good prober working with a 'stalker' class destroyer, or several, depending on the AU range of the tachyon pulses.
EDIT: This was proposed before, but I don't remember what happened to the discussion. Often AFK cloaker threads are so mired in troll/nooob/forum rage that all the sensible people don't even bother reading them.
I'm still very Neg on any cloak that requires 'fuel'. Without people actively searching for the cloaker (with this new stalker class destroyer) then you should be able to AFK cloak forever. Also, I think you should be allowed to AFK cloak forever in non-hostile systems. (people in this thread seems overly focused ONLY on NULLSEC with SOV systems, totally neglecting all the other kinds of systems in the game.)
--Vherokior Arms Dealer Extraordinaire
|
Cynoska McNamara
|
Posted - 2011.08.17 00:05:00 -
[218]
Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 17/08/2011 00:06:00
Originally by: Kaelie Onren Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 16/08/2011 23:26:36 I'm going to toss out some ideas for both sides here.
Local is powerful, but it does have story precedence. Every stargate has the records of who has jumped in. That so much is public knowledge. So local is not some omniscient 'immersion breaker'. You get that info via your NEOCOM via the fluidnet. That's why W-space doesn't have it, there are no stargates to record entry and exits, and no stargates to perpetuate inter-system fluidnet.
Now the destroyer idea is interesting (though not new), and actually may be doable. Must make sure its balanced, and requires a lot of skills to get good enough to find cloakers, or use the modules that can send the tach pulses that will reveal cloakers. It has precedence as well, destroyers have little purpose these days, except as cheap non-noctis salvagers, make a new class of destroyer and have them be the only ones that can fit this new mod.
The mod should not decloak a cloaker. It should only make a cloaker visible to combat probes. Cloakers should be able to see the use of the pulse as 'fluctuations' in there cloaking device. They can decide to warp away, which makes the task of actually locking down a active cloaker very very hard, requiring a good prober working with a 'stalker' class destroyer, or several, depending on the AU range of the tachyon pulses.
EDIT: This was proposed before, but I don't remember what happened to the discussion. Often AFK cloaker threads are so mired in troll/nooob/forum rage that all the sensible people don't even bother reading them.
I'm still very Neg on any cloak that requires 'fuel'. Without people actively searching for the cloaker (with this new stalker class destroyer) then you should be able to AFK cloak forever. Also, I think you should be allowed to AFK cloak forever in non-hostile systems. (people in this thread seems overly focused ONLY on NULLSEC with SOV systems, totally neglecting all the other kinds of systems in the game.)
I agree. The destroyer idea is very good.
|
OMGWTFResearch
|
Posted - 2011.08.17 11:02:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Kaelie Onren Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 17/08/2011 00:45:08 Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 16/08/2011 23:26:36 I'm going to toss out some ideas for both sides here.
Local is powerful, but it does have story precedence. Every stargate has the records of who has jumped in. That so much is public knowledge. So local is not some omniscient 'immersion breaker'. You get that info via your NEOCOM via the fluidnet. That's why W-space doesn't have it, there are no stargates to record entry and exits, and no stargates to perpetuate inter-system fluidnet.
Now the destroyer idea is interesting (though not new), and actually may be doable. Must make sure its balanced, and requires a lot of skills to get good enough to find cloakers, or use the modules that can send the tach pulses that will reveal cloakers. It has precedence as well, destroyers have little purpose these days, except as cheap non-noctis salvagers, make a new class of destroyer and have them be the only ones that can fit this new mod.
The mod should not decloak a cloaker. It should only make a cloaker visible to combat probes. Cloakers should be able to see the use of the pulse as 'fluctuations' in there cloaking device. They can decide to warp away, which makes the task of actually locking down a active cloaker very very hard, requiring a good prober working with a 'stalker' class destroyer, or several, depending on the AU range of the tachyon pulses.
EDIT: This was proposed before, but I don't remember what happened to the discussion. Often AFK cloaker threads are so mired in troll/nooob/forum rage that all the sensible people don't even bother reading them.
I'm still very Neg on any cloak that requires 'fuel'. Without people actively searching for the cloaker (with this new stalker class destroyer) then you should be able to AFK cloak forever. Also, I think you should be allowed to AFK cloak forever in non-hostile systems. (people in this thread seems overly focused ONLY on NULLSEC with SOV systems, totally neglecting all the other kinds of systems in the game.)
EDIT2: I'm not supporting this because the SUBJECT header of this thread offends me. It breeds dissent, division, and serves only to pit troll vs troll. There is NOTHING wrong with AFK cloaking. So fundamentally, I cannot support this thread. BUT if somebody wants to start a new one proposing these new tools to help combat cloakers, I will support.
There is nothing wrong with active cloaking. AFK is a completely different ball game but yes this destroyer idea would make things better by.
A) With a very expensive modules that only fits on a T1 destroyer hull. It makes these craft useful in the game again. The T2 or another destroyer variant idea is virtually the same but I would like to see the T1 versions do more than salvage.
B) Giving a new dedicated "Job" that can be hired out which enhances game variety.
C) Gives a fair balance to those who walk away (Which now involves great risk) Without seriously effecting those who are active in their clients.
D) Exposes bots when people who are cloaking 23/7 are reported legitimately for either botting or account sharing.
Now if I may to add further balance to protect active cloakers I propose that this new scan module works by finding a random point in space or puzzle which is generated every time the cloak starts.
Otherwise I see an exploit where people would just camp the area with probes at lowest setting making active cloakers life hell if not impossible. Random point then bring in the normal probes if the ship is AFK.
|
Ya Huei
|
Posted - 2011.08.17 14:30:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Kaelie Onren Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 17/08/2011 00:45:08 Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 16/08/2011 23:26:36 I'm going to toss out some ideas for both sides here.
Local is powerful, but it does have story precedence. Every stargate has the records of who has jumped in. That so much is public knowledge. So local is not some omniscient 'immersion breaker'. You get that info via your NEOCOM via the fluidnet. That's why W-space doesn't have it, there are no stargates to record entry and exits, and no stargates to perpetuate inter-system fluidnet.
It's also broken because I enter systems through wormholes and I still magically appear in local.
|
|
Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.08.17 15:17:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Ya Huei
Originally by: Kaelie Onren Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 17/08/2011 00:45:08 Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 16/08/2011 23:26:36 I'm going to toss out some ideas for both sides here.
Local is powerful, but it does have story precedence. Every stargate has the records of who has jumped in. That so much is public knowledge. So local is not some omniscient 'immersion breaker'. You get that info via your NEOCOM via the fluidnet. That's why W-space doesn't have it, there are no stargates to record entry and exits, and no stargates to perpetuate inter-system fluidnet.
It's also broken because I enter systems through wormholes and I still magically appear in local.
You win. Report to CCP and I guess they will get right on fixing that :) --Vherokior Arms Dealer Extraordinaire
|
Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.08.17 15:26:00 -
[222]
Originally by: OMGWTFResearch
A) With a very expensive modules that only fits on a T1 destroyer hull. It makes these craft useful in the game again. The T2 or another destroyer variant idea is virtually the same but I would like to see the T1 versions do more than salvage.
B) Giving a new dedicated "Job" that can be hired out which enhances game variety.
C) Gives a fair balance to those who walk away (Which now involves great risk) Without seriously effecting those who are active in their clients.
D) Exposes bots when people who are cloaking 23/7 are reported legitimately for either botting or account sharing.
Now if I may to add further balance to protect active cloakers I propose that this new scan module works by finding a random point in space or puzzle which is generated every time the cloak starts.
Otherwise I see an exploit where people would just camp the area with probes at lowest setting making active cloakers life hell if not impossible. Random point then bring in the normal probes if the ship is AFK.
So are you going to start a new thread, or do we have to continue this on this wrongly named subject thread?
a) I disagree. T2 specialty class is better. Interdictors are specialty ships, and these should be too. Just because T1 destroyer should have a use is not good enough reason to break the model of special roles go to specialty class ships. T1's frigs, dessies and cruisers are for noobies anyway.
You completely lost me with this puzzle/probe thing, tachyon pulse is a ranged pulse. I was thinking more like depth charge analogy. If hit, target cloak destabilizes, making them probable. They can reengage their cloak after some cooldown reset time.
Why don't you start a new thread. This thread is already troll heavy enough. --Vherokior Arms Dealer Extraordinaire
|
OMGWTFResearch
|
Posted - 2011.08.17 15:30:00 -
[223]
The reason is an AFK cloaker is not going to stand within range of an AOF module. And much worse it would harm active cloakers. You want to target the AFK aspect and little else.
|
Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.08.17 15:52:00 -
[224]
Originally by: OMGWTFResearch The reason is an AFK cloaker is not going to stand within range of an AOF module. And much worse it would harm active cloakers. You want to target the AFK aspect and little else.
You misunderstood my idea, it's a probe that sends out a AOE tach pulse. The module is just a launcher. But I'm not going to continue this on this thread. You have my ideas, you got the gist of it, distill it and post it as a sensible proposal. Keep the flames and the accusations and the hyperbole to a minimum to keep the anti-whiner sentiment low. good luck. --Vherokior Arms Dealer Extraordinaire
|
Kreliaan
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 13:51:00 -
[225]
It is adorable that 95% of the people in this thread have missed the OP's point entirely.
He is not complaining about cloaking mechanics.
He is not complaining about risk vs. reward in nullsec.
He is not complaining about local.
He is not complaining about enemies in his home systems.
He is complaining about afk'ers. Simple solution: a timed afk flag.
|
Dub Step
Minmatar Death To Everyone But Us
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 13:55:00 -
[226]
Anyone AFK does not represent a risk therefore why bother.
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Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 14:15:00 -
[227]
Timed aft flag is the stupidest idea ever ( and that's a lot coming from me, I'd like to think I'm open minded about all things reasonable ) That pretty much makes eve into a whack-a-mole game, prone to accidental logoffs or decloaks, and easily defeated with existing macros. Not only ineffective, it serves only to punish the legitimate players not using macros. People who propose it need to take a course in game design. Or just recall the last time windows asked you to reboot and install new updates and gave you 59 seconds to click NO else it would do it for you.
Just plain dumb UI design.
--Vherokior Arms Dealer Extraordinaire
|
Kreliaan
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 14:18:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Dub Step Anyone AFK does not represent a risk therefore why bother.
Because you don't know if they are afk. The enemy might have gone to bed six hours ago. Maybe he is actually playing and planning a strike. It has become common practice in my corner of nullsec for reds to leave their characters cloaked in popular jewing systems all day, every day. Obviously, they are not at their keyboard 24/7.
Why should they be able to do anything (even something as small as tactical pressure from their presence alone) when they are not actively playing?
This isn't about risk vs a single enemy. This is about allowing people to participate in eve while not at their computer.
|
Kreliaan
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 14:21:00 -
[229]
Originally by: Kaelie Onren Timed aft flag is the stupidest idea ever ( and that's a lot coming from me, I'd like to think I'm open minded about all things reasonable ) That pretty much makes eve into a whack-a-mole game, prone to accidental logoffs or decloaks, and easily defeated with existing macros. Not only ineffective, it serves only to punish the legitimate players not using macros. People who propose it need to take a course in game design. Or just recall the last time windows asked you to reboot and install new updates and gave you 59 seconds to click NO else it would do it for you.
Just plain dumb UI design.
I said nothing about an auto-log. A simple light on the character portrait in local would work fine. There are ways around macros as well, like captchas. Obviously captchas wouldn't be an elegant solution, but surely there is something similar that could be done.
|
Dub Step
Minmatar Death To Everyone But Us
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 14:25:00 -
[230]
Originally by: Kreliaan This isn't about risk vs a single enemy. This is about allowing people to participate in eve while not at their computer.
Soi you would also wish for skill training to stop while offline and for market orders, industry jobs, contracts, research etc. to be cancelled while a player is offline?
|
|
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 15:18:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Kreliaan It is adorable that 95% of the people in this thread have missed the OP's point entirely.
He is not complaining about cloaking mechanics.
Maybe, maybe not.
Originally by: Kreliaan He is not complaining about risk vs. reward in nullsec.
He actually mentions this in his second post and calls exploit.
Originally by: Kreliaan He is not complaining about local.
Not directly. But they are inextricably linked, so you cannot talk about one without the other.
But it goes deeper than that, as you can AFK and use local for psychological warfare without a cloak. This is why most of us know the actual problem, is local.
Originally by: Kreliaan He is not complaining about enemies in his home systems.
Well actually he is.
Originally by: Kreliaan He is complaining about afk'ers. Simple solution: a timed afk flag.
This is where we find you adorable, for suggesting an idea that is so easily bypassed, not in anyway new and at the same time totally unnecessary.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Frau Klaps
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 17:52:00 -
[232]
I made a new thread discussing the dubiously unethical acts such as AFK cloaking in eve general. Please check there for some fresh new thoughts on this perennial problem. ~~~
|
Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 00:17:00 -
[233]
There is NoTHING wrong with afk cloaking, ethically, or otherwise. Stop thinking that there is. Let's start here.á Identify the problem at it's core. áIt's not afk cloaking, it's people who can't do anything about it. Give them a tool to do so, problem solved. áIf they don't want to act on the problem they deserve to suffer for their laziness.á
Captchas???? Seriously? You want to make this game as fun as signing up for a web account?shame on you for even suggesting it. Its ridiculous. You want to put the onus of work on the cloaker? No. You are just a lazy miner. This is the reason why you get so many scathing responses on these forums for your selfish suggestion. á Anyone can afk. It's allowed in the game. áYou don't like a cloaker in your space YOU need to find and evict him. Afk or not. If not afk, good luck. It will be impossible. But that's fair. If a cloaker wants to harass your system then you need to expend a hunter killer to stalk him and both of you spend time at the cloak and dagger game. No side gets to be lazy.á --Vherokior Arms Dealer Extraordinaire
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Kreliaan
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 01:21:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Dub Step
Originally by: Kreliaan This isn't about risk vs a single enemy. This is about allowing people to participate in eve while not at their computer.
Soi you would also wish for skill training to stop while offline and for market orders, industry jobs, contracts, research etc. to be cancelled while a player is offline?
Being intentionally thick is not becoming of you.
|
Kreliaan
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 01:48:00 -
[235]
Originally by: Kaelie Onren Anyone can afk. It's allowed in the game. áYou don't like a cloaker in your space YOU need to find and evict him. Afk or not. If not afk, good luck. It will be impossible. But that's fair.á
Do I really need to point this out to you? Impossible is the problem. It is a problem because it is specifically not fair. Impossible is the opposite of fair.
Why not a ghost cycle on the cloak module? Where it operates just like it does now, but only stays active for an hour at a time. Yes there will be macro'ers, but not everyone cheats at this game. It would dramatically cut down on the majority of people leaving themselves cloaked in a system while they go to work or sleep. Thats all I want. Something that makes it so you can't be absent from your computer all day and remain cloaked and invincible in a system.
Eventually, macro'ers will need to be dealt with, but as long as CCP benefits from their subscriptions, it is not likely to happen anytime soon. In the meantime, it would be an enormous help to this particular issue.
|
Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 08:21:00 -
[236]
Originally by: kreliaan Do I really need to point this out to you? Impossible is the problem. It is a problem because it is specifically not fair. Impossible is the opposite of fair.
Now I could just be mean and point out how silly you sound not even having read the whole thread and spouting off.
So I'll just let you get the hint yourself and do so quietly to save your dignity. Credibility -10 |
Diablo Ex
Caldari The Devil's Reject's
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 08:24:00 -
[237]
Edited by: Diablo Ex on 19/08/2011 08:25:06 Its threads like this that make me want to demonstrate that there are nastier, more evil things out there than an AFK Cloaker.
I just slip in an Interceptor, maybe a Dramiel, find a deep safe, point it in an oblique direction away from all celestials, fire up the MWD to about 10,000 m/s speed, give the middle finger in local and go AFK for the night.
Even if and when you might get a warp in off the combat probes, it will be off grid before you can warp to 0. Chase that around till you get tired frustrated and angry...
it's called the greased pigglet...
And it will still be sitting there in local. |
Cynoska McNamara
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 08:57:00 -
[238]
Originally by: Diablo Ex Edited by: Diablo Ex on 19/08/2011 08:25:06 Its threads like this that make me want to demonstrate that there are nastier, more evil things out there than an AFK Cloaker.
I just slip in an Interceptor, maybe a Dramiel, find a deep safe, point it in an oblique direction away from all celestials, fire up the MWD to about 10,000 m/s speed, give the middle finger in local and go AFK for the night.
Even if and when you might get a warp in off the combat probes, it will be off grid before you can warp to 0. Chase that around till you get tired frustrated and angry...
it's called the greased pigglet...
And it will still be sitting there in local.
For me is ok.. a dramiel is proportionate to the damage it can do.
|
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 13:53:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Kreliaan Do I really need to point this out to you? Impossible is the problem. It is a problem because it is specifically not fair. Impossible is the opposite of fair.
Ahh, the 'not fair 'card. Nice move.
Originally by: Kreliaan Why not a ghost cycle on the cloak module? Where it operates just like it does now, but only stays active for an hour at a time. Yes there will be macro'ers, but not everyone cheats at this game. It would dramatically cut down on the majority of people leaving themselves cloaked in a system while they go to work or sleep. Thats all I want. Something that makes it so you can't be absent from your computer all day and remain cloaked and invincible in a system.
You've yet to give a good reason why this is needed. By this I mean, a none emotional factual reason. You also have to include local, as it is the reason for AFK cloaking.
Originally by: Kreliaan Eventually, macro'ers will need to be dealt with, but as long as CCP benefits from their subscriptions, it is not likely to happen anytime soon. In the meantime, it would be an enormous help to this particular issue.
But in the meantime, you want to push an idea forward, that promotes the use of macros. Great stuff.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
El Geo
Group 2
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 22:07:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Kaelie Onren Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 17/08/2011 00:45:08 Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 16/08/2011 23:26:36 I'm going to toss out some ideas for both sides here.
Local is powerful, but it does have story precedence. Every stargate has the records of who has jumped in. That so much is public knowledge. So local is not some omniscient 'immersion breaker'. You get that info via your NEOCOM via the fluidnet. That's why W-space doesn't have it, there are no stargates to record entry and exits, and no stargates to perpetuate inter-system fluidnet.
Now the destroyer idea is interesting (though not new), and actually may be doable. Must make sure its balanced, and requires a lot of skills to get good enough to find cloakers, or use the modules that can send the tach pulses that will reveal cloakers. It has precedence as well, destroyers have little purpose these days, except as cheap non-noctis salvagers, make a new class of destroyer and have them be the only ones that can fit this new mod.
The mod should not decloak a cloaker. It should only make a cloaker visible to combat probes. Cloakers should be able to see the use of the pulse as 'fluctuations' in there cloaking device. They can decide to warp away, which makes the task of actually locking down a active cloaker very very hard, requiring a good prober working with a 'stalker' class destroyer, or several, depending on the AU range of the tachyon pulses.
EDIT: This was proposed before, but I don't remember what happened to the discussion. Often AFK cloaker threads are so mired in troll/nooob/forum rage that all the sensible people don't even bother reading them.
I'm still very Neg on any cloak that requires 'fuel'. Without people actively searching for the cloaker (with this new stalker class destroyer) then you should be able to AFK cloak forever. Also, I think you should be allowed to AFK cloak forever in non-hostile systems. (people in this thread seems overly focused ONLY on NULLSEC with SOV systems, totally neglecting all the other kinds of systems in the game.)
EDIT2: I'm not supporting this because the SUBJECT header of this thread offends me. It breeds dissent, division, and serves only to pit troll vs troll. There is NOTHING wrong with AFK cloaking. So fundamentally, I cannot support this thread. BUT if somebody wants to start a new one proposing these new tools to help combat cloakers, I will support.
i really like the idea of a new destroyer for that, seems better than nerfing cloaking ships and logical aswell - the bit about gates though says that if a ship enters a local but not through a gate then they shouldnt be visible in the local channel right? |
|
El Geo
Group 2
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 22:16:00 -
[241]
i thought about it some more and wanted to say i would whole heartedly support a new destroyer that does some sort of cloaky (sub) hunting type thing, the more i think about it the more it sounds like the way forward - infact all the otehr ideas seem well, just effin dumb compared to it |
bozywor
|
Posted - 2011.08.22 12:35:00 -
[242]
With all that high-tek in eve , why anyone invent uncloacking upgrade to system ? Even prototype that can decloack 1 time per day
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Nakayme Caonis
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Posted - 2011.08.22 19:10:00 -
[243]
I see how it is. NOW you want my ship. You guys should have voted for it a year ago and got me a new computer in the process;
http://nakayme.deviantart.com/art/ESDC-Lami-Destroyer-182598998
No, seriously, posted because a friend was commenting on this, and I already thought up a system on how this can be implemented. The point is not to nerf cloaking, but to give players a tool to make repercussions FOR cloakers. 0.0 isn't safe - highsec isn't even safe. This just adds a little bit of realism to it. Cloaking can still give you an advantage - extra time to scout. And a good cloaker and a good runner will be able to avoid a hunting party like this for a good amount of time - half an hour, an hour, depending on how big the fleet chasing him is. But it does modify the balance and make things that much more difficult.
Besides, who doesn't wanna jump through a stargate and go: "'BAM!', I see you stealth bomber fleet that has been camping this gate! And so does the rest of my fleet that just jumped through, too!"
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Loki Feiht
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Posted - 2011.08.22 19:20:00 -
[244]
hm if this were real life cloakers wouldnt be able to log so would need to go 'afk' for sleep times..... The only logical suggestion in this thread so far IS the specialized ship idea (new destroyer + extra mini game = win), maybe add a warning sound to the cloakers so they know they're being decloaked aswell?
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Nakayme Caonis
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Posted - 2011.08.22 19:25:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Loki Feiht hm if this were real life cloakers wouldnt be able to log so would need to go 'afk' for sleep times..... The only logical suggestion in this thread so far IS the specialized ship idea (new destroyer + extra mini game = win), maybe add a warning sound to the cloakers so they know they're being decloaked aswell?
Would the uncloaking warning bell sound like this? "Danger Will Robinson, Danger!" I would hope so.
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Loki Feiht
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Posted - 2011.08.22 19:39:00 -
[246]
personalized warning tones, i'd support that - mine would be "say what again mother....." |
Eta Carinea
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Posted - 2011.08.23 08:56:00 -
[247]
If it is accepted that AFK cloaking is zero risk then something needs to be done, the difficult thing is what?
Removing local, would require the afk Pilot to simply type something into local every 10 minutes or so to have the same effect as letting everyone know he is around, this does not introduce any more risk but is now semi afk.
Perhaps a system that enables you to find the pilot with time and effort but then all the pilot would need do is move from safe spot to safe spot every x minutes. a common practice by non cloaky ships, This introduces, a small amount of risk but i would say itÆs not exactly a balance if all the pilot has to do is move every twenty minutes or so this provides as above a small amount of risk and semi afk status.
One option that would increase the risk and deal with the afk is a random probe success anywhere from 3 minutes to say 20 minutes that would give a guarantee warp point by use of a specialised trained for probe. This gaurantees risk and ensures afk is not an option. IMHO
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rootimus maximus
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.08.23 09:03:00 -
[248]
Originally by: Miang Hawaa It is tragic that I have to spell this out for you.
An enemy's presence in a system causes numerous problems for locals.
Actually, it causes a single problem: they might kill you. Unless they're AFK, in which case they're completely harmless. _____________________________________
I don't think we should complain about it... or CCP may try to fix it and OMG!!!... no, not good... |
Vitamin B12
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Posted - 2011.08.23 10:07:00 -
[249]
Edited by: Vitamin B12 on 23/08/2011 10:08:44
Originally by: Miang Hawaa Your character should not have an impact on other players while you are absent from your computer. Your character should not profit while you are not playing the game
damn it. we totaly should remove trading. and production. and invention. and planetary interaction. and research. and corp tax........... ---
CONCORD ITEMS!! CHEAPER THEN ON THE MARKET.
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Nakayme Caonis
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Posted - 2011.08.23 10:18:00 -
[250]
Edited by: Nakayme Caonis on 23/08/2011 10:20:38 Edited by: Nakayme Caonis on 23/08/2011 10:20:28
Originally by: Eta Carinea If it is accepted that AFK cloaking is zero risk then something needs to be done, the difficult thing is what?
Removing local, would require the afk Pilot to simply type something into local every 10 minutes or so to have the same effect as letting everyone know he is around, this does not introduce any more risk but is now semi afk.
Perhaps a system that enables you to find the pilot with time and effort but then all the pilot would need do is move from safe spot to safe spot every x minutes. a common practice by non cloaky ships, This introduces, a small amount of risk but i would say itÆs not exactly a balance if all the pilot has to do is move every twenty minutes or so this provides as above a small amount of risk and semi afk status.
One option that would increase the risk and deal with the afk is a random probe success anywhere from 3 minutes to say 20 minutes that would give a guarantee warp point by use of a specialised trained for probe. This gaurantees risk and ensures afk is not an option. IMHO
The idea isn't to completely take away the effectiveness of cloaking - merely to give players a way to fight back against stealth targets - defend their systems, engage cloaked convoys, track down that Titan that is cloaked and trying to log out...
But as I said - it makes it more difficult - and obviously, the idea of this thread is to make it more difficult for the cloaked individual. Now, of course, you can warp around and avoid being detected. However, it does generally take time to manage warping, however minute, and that requires setting up warp points to warp to, as well as using them.
If you really wanted to stick it to them (the cloaker) though and equal things out, all CCP would have to do (and this would probably require a decent amount of coding change) would be to reset the scanning progress of each signature every time that someone enters warp. Every time the cloaker warps, he has to start scanning again. This would seriously cripple the ability to find a site to attack - and certainly increase the amount of time.
However, it should be noted that most people are too lazy to enter warp, over and over again - and that the detector class destroyer, in this case, would have the advantage - it only has to find the cloaked target once. One thing to note is that a cloaked harassment ship is often smaller than the large ships that capsuleers use to rat or mine in. They would be harder to detect due to their small signature radius - except that the cloaked probes are not looking for an exact location - merely something within maybe 50-100km of the target. The cloaked ship can still warp away after this - but its cloaking device will be disabled for a period of time, which does make it susceptible to having its pinpoint location scanned down. Does this mean the ship will be caught? No. Can CCP take this one step further and say that the pulse would actually temporarily offline the navigational computer of the ship, preventing it from warping out? If the ship had in fact used a cloaking device in x so many seconds (as a minimum, due to the cloaking delay of some ships being zilch), it could do just that.
But any changes to the cloaking system or detecting cloakies would change much more than just searching for 'AFK cloakies', and any changes in the system should be made to remember that. Imagine, cloaking a titan, being found, and not being able to jump out for 20-30 seconds as a result? Or being in a stealth-bomber gatecamp fleet (which are very popular for some alliances!) and suddenly having your entire fleet of stealth bombers unable to warp away while a battleship group comes through the gate. Or even getting caught this way while flying one of those cloaking blockade runners... Might be worth getting Concorded to prevent a runner's escape in highsec!
Pros and Cons aside, this would certainly be one way to bring more PvP fleets into contact.
Stealth Cookie, anyone? Cloakies!
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Nakayme Caonis
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Posted - 2011.08.23 10:23:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Vitamin B12 Edited by: Vitamin B12 on 23/08/2011 10:08:44
Originally by: Miang Hawaa Your character should not have an impact on other players while you are absent from your computer. Your character should not profit while you are not playing the game
damn it. we totaly should remove trading. and production. and invention. and planetary interaction. and research. and corp tax...........
You forgot to mention Quafe Sales. My character drinks 3,924 24oz bottles of Quafe a day while I am offline, and the number continues to grow daily. Do you know how long I have to GRIND to make enough isk to satisfy her addiction? I say no Quafe, and she just goes and starts drinking again as soon as I log off! It's a never-ending battle!
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Newt Rondanse
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Posted - 2011.08.23 13:50:00 -
[252]
Really. Hmph.
The problem isn't cloakers, whether they are at their console or not.
Covops ships are already gimped regarding PvP, and don't pose a significant threat to well prepared players.
The problem is cynos.
If any ship in space can become an entire fleet in less time than a reasonably fit/skilled opponent can kill it when it is right next to them, that is a problem.
Covops players should need to act, well, covertly to get their job done.
Flying right up to your target and decloaking with less ship than is needed to get the job done isn't very covert. The SEALs would laugh in your face if you suggested such a tactic to them.
Put a one minute timer on cynos, allow specialized ships bonuses to cut that in half. People will adopt new tactics to deal with it (at least the ones who aren't too stuck on having them as an iWin button with little risk).
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foksieloy
Minmatar Rockets ponies and rainbows
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Posted - 2011.08.23 14:17:00 -
[253]
Originally by: Newt Rondanse The SEALs would laugh in your face if you suggested such a tactic to them.
Really? Cause if I told them that one guy could charge in, place 40 tanks in the room from across the country, and loose nothing but his T-shirt, they would ask me where to sign up for that. _______________________ The best thing in EvE is Barrage M. |
Newt Rondanse
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Posted - 2011.08.23 14:28:00 -
[254]
Originally by: foksieloy
Originally by: Newt Rondanse The SEALs would laugh in your face if you suggested such a tactic to them.
Really? Cause if I told them that one guy could charge in, place 40 tanks in the room from across the country, and loose nothing but his T-shirt, they would ask me where to sign up for that.
Well yeah, but that one guy *still* wouldn't show his face if he didn't have to.
Besides, the tanks would be much more useful outside the room.
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Tomaso Yoshitome
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Posted - 2011.08.23 14:43:00 -
[255]
Frankly, if you can't deal with an AFK cloaker by putting a defense fleet up, or having guards accompanying your Hulks, you deserve to lose your ship. I put it to you, that in fact, with these measures in place, an AFK cloaker, whilst AFK, has no tactical advantage, and poses no threat whatsoever. The only harm he inflicts by his presence is the fear factor. If you can't handle that by recognizing fear as an integral element of 0.0 life, or be organized enough to eliminate its impact on ISK production by working with other players, then you should go back to high-sec where you can grind your ISK feeling safe.
When the cloaker engages a target, then he is at equal, if not more risk than the target he is attacking. He's deep in hostile territory, with a local filled with reds, and likely dozens more in the surrounding systems. The whole point of guerrilla warfare is to tie up a disproportionate amount of resources to the level of threat posed - it would be a shame to see this tactic removed from EVE because incompetent carebears can't PVP, and whine on the forums instead of taking matters into their own hands.
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Nakayme Caonis
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Posted - 2011.08.23 17:22:00 -
[256]
Originally by: Tomaso Yo****ome The whole point of guerrilla warfare is to tie up a disproportionate amount of resources to the level of threat posed
Thank you for pointing this out. It would still take a disproportionate amount of resources to achieve tracking down and dealing with the cloaked target. So the objective of the Guerilla Warfare would still be achieved. The only difference is how long would the cloaked hostile, IE, the Guerilla, be able to project this effect. Due to the current game mechanics, this is an infinite amount of time.
However, should the mechanics be changed in a manner that neutralizes this, it might take half an hour to two hours to track down that hostile or neutral. It might also take the neutral or hostile that long to trek back to the target system.
Originally by: Tomaso Yo****ome Frankly, if you can't deal with an AFK cloaker by putting a defense fleet up...
Another Valid Point. Thank you for agreeing with me.
Yet, due to the manpower it would take to track down the cloaked target - the objective of Guerilla warfare in this sense would still be achieved. The difference is that the defence fleet would have the ability to proactively do something about the situation, rather than having to wait. Keep in mind - most defence fleets guarding hulks are making 0 isk, just like the guy out there doing the cloaked harassment. This would encourage player interaction, whereas the current system encourages player disinteraction, in this case - harassment.
The capabilities of covert ops and their brethren to engage in their primary combat objectives - using black ops ships to warp in tons of stealth bombers, blow up lots of targets, and warp out before the enemy has a chance to respond, would still remain unaffected. If you intend to do something - you are going to do it before the enemy can form a response fleet - and you should. If your targets are smart enough to head to a POS and wait for a defence fleet to arrive, well, that intelligent response mechanic hasn't changed, now has it? Still, you are costing that ops fleet or group of locals isk while they must remain POS'ed up and unable to make use of their time. Mission accomplished.
Rather, I like to think that being aggressive and harassing should feature some form of forethought, planning, combined with a cunning delivery of destruction and death. These changes would encourage players that use covert-ops ships to work together in fleets to accomplish these goals, which is somewhat the point of 0.0. It would not completely disable the point or capabilities of the harassment - merely limit the length. But as you say, if someone in 0.0 can't deal with harassing a defence fleet that can find them and kill them, they're always welcome to return to highsec and flip cans like a carebear pirate.
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Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists Yarr Collective
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Posted - 2011.08.23 18:03:00 -
[257]
Originally by: Nakayme Caonis Stuff
Well on the other hand, by neutralizing this tactic by having CCP do it for you, you will see a lot more blobs landing on your door step and then you do not have to worry about shagging down elusive AFK cloakers.
It is pretty simple really, by taking away "something" from Null, they will find another way to make your life hell.
It is Null space after all...right?
After you have had your ass handed to you a number of times, you will then head back to hi-sec and get ganked by carebear pirates that do not really employ that cloaking tactic.
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Nakayme Caonis
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Posted - 2011.08.23 18:57:00 -
[258]
Originally by: Baaldor
Originally by: Nakayme Caonis Stuff
Well on the other hand, by neutralizing this tactic by having CCP do it for you, you will see a lot more blobs landing on your door step and then you do not have to worry about shagging down elusive AFK cloakers.
It is pretty simple really, by taking away "something" from Null, they will find another way to make your life hell.
It is Null space after all...right?
After you have had your ass handed to you a number of times, you will then head back to hi-sec and get ganked by carebear pirates that do not really employ that cloaking tactic.
You are talking about replacing operations done in groups of 1 to 15 or so, with larger scale, militarized incursions. This would be extremely unlikely. Larger scale militarized incursions happen on a per alliance basis, and one is not going to replace a 15 man fleet that might have an isk risk of 1B isk (although this will most likely be more along the lines of 100M isk at max, which is worth sacrificing if you can kill just one hulk or orca), with a 100+ man fleet that has an isk-risk of 5B isk or more. If they can - they are welcome to do so. Isn't that what 0.0 is about? Having fun, controlling space, and bashing heads with your less than friendly neighbours? And if they can - they are probably already doing so. Those people that can lead such large groups that also do the covert op squads - do the covert ops squads for fun when they don't want to lead a larger fleet.
That being said - smaller fleet covert ops squads of 3-15 people would see relatively no change at all. The only difference is that they have an amount of time to make their strike in, and might not have an opportunity before they are kicked out. That's why you send 1-2 low isk covert ops frigates, light a Covert Cyno, and have a Black Ops ship jump your guys in. Precision, Control, and no contest. These changes aren't going to dramatically affect the lives of anyone whom is honestly going to engage the target. They're searching for a target and will generally move on if there is none. And there will be plenty of targets of opportunity just as there are now - this isn't a change that automatically makes people warp to a POS whenever a neutral or hostile comes into local. As they say - you can't cure stupid.
As for incursions done by individuals - these will make it more difficult for the individual to harass a group. He will only be able to keep it up for so long. Is he going to rage and spawn a blob? No, not really. If he had a group, he'd probably have a group in doing this. He is welcome to try to organize a fleet if his group even allows him to FC, but chances are, he's just doing it for his own ****s and giggles and fun, and while they may have the blessings of their alliance in doing so, he probably doesn't have the alliance's support.
To compare small groups having their capabilities nerfed and resulting in big blobs is like comparing apples and oranges. 0.0 groups are going to replace apples with apples - or pears, at best.
As for getting ganked by 'carebear pirates', I'm pretty sure that is a risk anytime you undock in highsec. That will exist if you return from 0.0 or never go to 0.0. Simple solution? If you aren't willing to take that risk, go play something like the World of Warcraft. But make sure you don't play on a PvP server if you do so!
PS: You guys should really consider how this will affect other aspects and fleets in EVE. There's absolutely no debate on that in here at all - merely talk about how people are griping. There's always two sides to a balancing argument - often more.
PSS: There are plenty non-carebear pirates in highsec. IMHO, if you have the knowledge to gank and profit, you aren't a carebear pirate. I proudly support such said piracy as a part of EVE online gameplay. If only we had a hunting season for idiots in RL.
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Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists Yarr Collective
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Posted - 2011.08.23 21:49:00 -
[259]
Edited by: Baaldor on 23/08/2011 21:51:05
Originally by: Nakayme Caonis
Again more stuff
If said group can no longer use the tactic to stop or slow the farming of isk to fuel their towers or replace ships, then said group will employ other methods to do so.
It is really easy to get 20 or 30 null bears together on a slosh op to **** off the neighbors. You seem to be unaware of this...considering it happens all of the time.
I would think given the choice, the jewbear would just hop next door to rat or plex to avoid the AFK cloaker, verses getting their **** pushed in by a group fast moving *******s.
Oh and by the way, the term "pirate" is thrown around fairly loosely by peeps that have no clue what one was if they came up a bit them on the bum. Just stop.
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Nakayme Caonis
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Posted - 2011.08.23 22:05:00 -
[260]
Originally by: Baaldor Edited by: Baaldor on 23/08/2011 21:51:05
Originally by: Nakayme Caonis
Again more stuff
If said group can no longer use the tactic to stop or slow the farming of isk to fuel their towers or replace ships, then said group will employ other methods to do so.
It is really easy to get 20 or 30 null bears together on a slosh op to **** off the neighbors. You seem to be unaware of this...considering it happens all of the time.
I would think given the choice, the jewbear would just hop next door to rat or plex to avoid the AFK cloaker, verses getting their **** pushed in by a group fast moving *******s.
Oh and by the way, the term "pirate" is thrown around fairly loosely by peeps that have no clue what one was if they came up a bit them on the bum. Just stop.
I don't consider a 20-30 man fleet to be a large fleet or even a blob fleet. But it's certainly larger than the number of covert ops pilots that it takes to pull off a successful operation - especially amongst guerilla warfare scenarios.
If you had 20-30 people to spend and wanted to do covert ops fleets, you could harass an entire constellation and trollolol your way around for hours, which actually would be more effective way of disrupting your enemy than getting a 20-30 man fleet and attacking them head on.
I am quite aware of numerical scenarios. Perhaps you really ought to consider them yourself. Or are you afraid to do a nullsec covert operation assault without having 20-30 people with the way the game mechanics currently work?
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Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists Yarr Collective
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Posted - 2011.08.23 23:53:00 -
[261]
Edited by: Baaldor on 23/08/2011 23:53:10
Originally by: Nakayme Caonis Or are you afraid to do a nullsec covert operation assault without having 20-30 people with the way the game mechanics currently work?
1- Please tell me more of what I supposedly have or have not done.
2- You obviously have no ****ing clue how current mechanics work.
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Nakayme Caonis
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Posted - 2011.08.24 00:10:00 -
[262]
Edited by: Nakayme Caonis on 24/08/2011 00:12:19
Originally by: Baaldor Edited by: Baaldor on 23/08/2011 23:53:10
Originally by: Nakayme Caonis Or are you afraid to do a nullsec covert operation assault without having 20-30 people with the way the game mechanics currently work?
1- Please tell me more of what I supposedly have or have not done.
2- You obviously have no ****ing clue how current mechanics work.
You are comparing different magnitudes - comparing apples and oranges. Whenever you have a group of 20 people, it will have a much more numerically significant influence on matters than the number 5.
Those 1-5 people that make a covert ops fleet are not going to cast mirror images of themselves and become 20-30. If they instead attack head on, they are going to be a group of 1-5, not 20-30. There ARE fleets of 20-30 covert ops, yes, and they can certainly do wickedly sick things. However, the QUANTITATIVE MAJORITY of them are within the 1-5 man size range. Anything larger than that is an irregularity, that while worth noting the impacts of - does not mean that every single outcome will - or even has the possibility, of resulting in that outcome. Mathematically, 5 does not equal 20, and certainly not 30, and so it is very much impossible. Learn to count on more than your 8 fingers and two thumbs and you might be able to appreciate numerical terms.
What you have and have not done makes no impact on the overall statistics of EVE. You can try to ignore this, but you will be wrong. And your ignorance in the matter is exactly why I am not going to re-address you again after this post.
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Kogh Ayon
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Posted - 2011.08.24 07:39:00 -
[263]
Edited by: Kogh Ayon on 24/08/2011 07:42:19
Originally by: Nakayme Caonis Edited by: Nakayme Caonis on 24/08/2011 00:12:19
Originally by: Baaldor Edited by: Baaldor on 23/08/2011 23:53:10
Originally by: Nakayme Caonis Or are you afraid to do a nullsec covert operation assault without having 20-30 people with the way the game mechanics currently work?
1- Please tell me more of what I supposedly have or have not done.
2- You obviously have no ****ing clue how current mechanics work.
You are comparing different magnitudes - comparing apples and oranges. Whenever you have a group of 20 people, it will have a much more numerically significant influence on matters than the number 5.
Those 1-5 people that make a covert ops fleet are not going to cast mirror images of themselves and become 20-30. If they instead attack head on, they are going to be a group of 1-5, not 20-30. There ARE fleets of 20-30 covert ops, yes, and they can certainly do wickedly sick things. However, the QUANTITATIVE MAJORITY of them are within the 1-5 man size range. Anything larger than that is an irregularity, that while worth noting the impacts of - does not mean that every single outcome will - or even has the possibility, of resulting in that outcome. Mathematically, 5 does not equal 20, and certainly not 30, and so it is very much impossible. Learn to count on more than your 8 fingers and two thumbs and you might be able to appreciate numerical terms.
What you have and have not done makes no impact on the overall statistics of EVE. You can try to ignore this, but you will be wrong. And your ignorance in the matter is exactly why I am not going to re-address you again after this post.
AFK cloaking Have a look->10ppl rating->Go AFK Watching a movie Have a look->3ppl rating->Check our side->5ppl only->Go AFK Take lunch Have a look->3ppl ratin->Check our side->15ppl->Black op in pos. Fleet. Tackle. Gank. One day each. Feel free to make any trap to trade your battleship for my bomber.
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Aryndel Vyst
Amarr GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.24 15:16:00 -
[264]
I am afk cloaking right now while i make this post. Chew on that.
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Ajunta Pul
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Posted - 2011.08.26 14:14:00 -
[265]
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Andy Landen
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.08.27 12:51:00 -
[266]
I agree with the OP. The problem, as I see it, comes with the combination of the extended afk cloak COMBINED with the cyno. Since anything can be brought through the cyno, a small pvp gang of 8-10 simply will not suffice as a defense against a single, risk-less, afk cloaker. I have seen dozens of supercaps, a dozen titans, dozens of carriers, and other ships jump through a cyno. While you could go to the next system, I am seeing more and more afk cloakers so that most systems are now being cloaky-cyno camped by them.
Here are two ideas: 1) Automatic log-off for any character inactive for 1 hour. Meaning absolutely no interface with the Eve client for an hour straight. 2) Auto-decloak after 30 minutes. A message comes up alerting the player of the time remaining before auto-decloak. The player simply has to re-cloak (meaning be at the keyboard). Could be something about the ability of the ship to maintain cloak for a finite amount of time continuously. 3) Mobile cyno jammer ship. Add that ability to a HIC. Have it activate on an IHUB or sov structure so the ship can be scanned down and destroyed by a small gang if unsupported. Optional: Require blue standings to sov holder to prevent neuts/reds from jamming the system. |
Andy Landen
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.08.27 13:05:00 -
[267]
Originally by: Nakayme Caonis I see how it is. NOW you want my ship. You guys should have voted for it a year ago and got me a new computer in the process;
http://nakayme.deviantart.com/art/ESDC-Lami-Destroyer-182598998
No, seriously, posted because a friend was commenting on this, and I already thought up a system on how this can be implemented. The point is not to nerf cloaking, but to give players a tool to make repercussions FOR cloakers. 0.0 isn't safe - highsec isn't even safe. This just adds a little bit of realism to it. Cloaking can still give you an advantage - extra time to scout. And a good cloaker and a good runner will be able to avoid a hunting party like this for a good amount of time - half an hour, an hour, depending on how big the fleet chasing him is. But it does modify the balance and make things that much more difficult.
Besides, who doesn't wanna jump through a stargate and go: "'BAM!', I see you stealth bomber fleet that has been camping this gate! And so does the rest of my fleet that just jumped through, too!"
Really, Really cool idea! +1 I would suggest no decloaker as it could be very OP at gates, but cloaking scan probes can probe to zero, but the time between scans is several minutes AND requires a system-wide warpable field active so that the cloakers can warp directly to or near the prober for intel on fleet comp or for attack. |
AmarrPriceStamp Lazair
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Posted - 2011.08.27 15:09:00 -
[268]
How about bringing some friends while you rat in Nullsec?
If you want risk-free PVE and you can't make any friends to help you, go to Highsec. |
Saul Dhampir
Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.08.28 23:54:00 -
[269]
Why do think the original poster is ratter and anomaly runner, probably in a pet alliance, stuffed away under another alliances protection who had probably never had to fight for the space they exploit. Who want's everything easy and zero risk. Who probably runs and docks up when a red fleet comes down a pipe instead of fighting for the right to be there in the first place.
Sorry love. There is no 100% safety.
- It does not define exploit. - Not everyone 'knows' it's a problem. Only free riders like you think it is. - Nothing is being done because it's perfectly reasonable and people need to deal with stuff like that in your little ISK making playground.
I think you should stick to Hi-Sec. Or maybe nice cookie cutter MMO where you can't lose anything and pvp is consensual.
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.08.29 04:09:00 -
[270]
The day when AFK cloaked ship kills anyone is the day we may seriously start talking about nerfs to cloaking.
So far that hasn't happened
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Hallacar
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Posted - 2011.08.30 02:41:00 -
[271]
How can the botters make a respectable living with the risk that the afk camper may lite a cyno ?
I'm outraged too !$%#!!
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Ab'Synth
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Posted - 2011.08.31 15:55:00 -
[272]
i vote NO, not being able to cloak and afk ties me down to the game and makes me its b*tch. i shouldnt be forced to go find a station everytime i want/need to go afk. and personally, your not even offering anything, your just whining. |
Tetragammatron Prime
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Posted - 2011.08.31 18:40:00 -
[273]
remove local nerf covert ops cloak
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.08.31 22:38:00 -
[274]
Originally by: Tetragammatron Prime remove local nerf covert ops cloak
This actually a valid point. If there is no local, there has to be a ways to detect presence of cloaked ships in a wide area - not their specific location, just enough to know something is there. Basically same as local but without the names.
It wouldn't be good to have completely invisible and undetectable players roaming around.
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Dont Tasemebro
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Posted - 2011.08.31 23:14:00 -
[275]
Everyone keeps mentioning risk - but this risk never seems to fall on the cloaker, always on the ratter. Give us a sovereignty structure that allows us to project a single, system-wide instantaneous pulse once per day that will decloak any and all ships in the system. Give it significant fuel costs so that the sov holders have to decide whether it's worth using - maybe the cloaker is in a Panther, maybe he's in a Heron. Make it require strategic sov level 4 or 5. Now the sov-holder and the cloaker both share equal risks.
If you are at your keyboard and playing the game when this pulse happens, you can just recloak and the sov holder just wasted a cooldown and some fuel. You now have 24 hours to afk cloak till your heart's content. You can even use cloaked alts to trick the sov-holder into using their cooldown on a cloaked T1/rookie frig, wasting a significant amount of fuel and leaving their ratting system open to cloaky predation for another 24 hours.
I don't think this is unreasonable. This only affects a small functionality of the cloak. It's still a bathroom break when you're ratting in low-sec. It's still the end-all of reconnaissance, scouting and hot-dropping. What it wouldn't be is complete immunity to probing when you decide to take a nap while leaving your ship in hostile territory.
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
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Posted - 2011.09.01 18:32:00 -
[276]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Tetragammatron Prime remove local nerf covert ops cloak
This actually a valid point. If there is no local, there has to be a ways to detect presence of cloaked ships in a wide area - not their specific location, just enough to know something is there. Basically same as local but without the names.
It wouldn't be good to have completely invisible and undetectable players roaming around.
Ever been in a wormhole? You should try it, then you'd realize how weak you sound right now.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.09.01 20:57:00 -
[277]
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Tetragammatron Prime remove local nerf covert ops cloak
This actually a valid point. If there is no local, there has to be a ways to detect presence of cloaked ships in a wide area - not their specific location, just enough to know something is there. Basically same as local but without the names.
It wouldn't be good to have completely invisible and undetectable players roaming around.
Ever been in a wormhole? You should try it, then you'd realize how weak you sound right now.
I have been there and I don't believe that way it works now is good game design.
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
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Posted - 2011.09.02 11:58:00 -
[278]
Originally by: Ephemeron I have been there and I don't believe that way it works now is good game design.
Well, your beliefs fail to trump my reality. It's fine as is in wormholes. You don't need to know if there's a cloaked person in your hole. You simply need to assume there is and act accordingly. And no, that doesn't mean curl up in your pos shield and whimper. It means grow a pair, tank your ship a little (haulers especially), and go about your business in an alert manner.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.09.02 12:22:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Tetragammatron Prime remove local nerf covert ops cloak
This actually a valid point. If there is no local, there has to be a ways to detect presence of cloaked ships in a wide area - not their specific location, just enough to know something is there. Basically same as local but without the names.
It wouldn't be good to have completely invisible and undetectable players roaming around.
Ever been in a wormhole? You should try it, then you'd realize how weak you sound right now.
I have been there and I don't believe that way it works now is good game design.
It works fine. It forces people to take responsibility for their own safety, rather than offloading it to some infallible intel system.
Frankly, if cloaked ships are detectable in WHs, then before doing leaving POS every sane person would have scanned for cloak sigs and hence know what was going on in their system. It would be just the same as current broken nullsec, complete with AFK cloakers. We don't need another region of space as stupid and easy as nullsec.
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Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD Tragedy.
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Posted - 2011.09.02 13:18:00 -
[280]
Edited by: Vertisce Soritenshi on 02/09/2011 13:19:02 Edited by: Vertisce Soritenshi on 02/09/2011 13:18:34
Originally by: Ab'Synth i vote NO, not being able to cloak and afk ties me down to the game and makes me its b*tch. i shouldnt be forced to go find a station everytime i want/need to go afk. and personally, your not even offering anything, your just whining.
Actually, you're the one who is whining. Yes you should have to find a station or someplace safe if you are going to go AFK. You're just trying to make an excuse. If you go AFK for more than 10 or 15 minutes then you should be logged out. Most people with even limited intelligence know that if you aren't in a station system then you dock up or go to a POS when you go AFK unless you can cloak. You are just trying to defend your ability to cloak up and go AFK all day long in an enemy system so you can be a **** with no risk or consequence. NO BOOBIES LEFT BEHIND! |
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foksieloy
Minmatar Rockets ponies and rainbows
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Posted - 2011.09.02 13:28:00 -
[281]
Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi QQ
You are just trying to defend your inability to have balls so you can bot ISK with no risk or consequence. _______________________ The best thing in EvE is Barrage M. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD Tragedy.
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Posted - 2011.09.02 13:35:00 -
[282]
Originally by: foksieloy
Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi QQ
You are just trying to defend your inability to have balls so you can bot ISK with no risk or consequence.
Yes because putting in an AFK timeout will stop all the botters. Idiot. Even limiting cloaks wouldn't stop botters.
Grow a brain before you accuse people of being botters. NO BOOBIES LEFT BEHIND! |
foksieloy
Minmatar Rockets ponies and rainbows
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Posted - 2011.09.02 14:10:00 -
[283]
Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi Grow a brain before you accuse people of being botters.
You desire to play the game without having to use your brain. You are the equivalent of a bot. _______________________ The best thing in EvE is Barrage M. |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
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Posted - 2011.09.02 14:15:00 -
[284]
Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi
Yes because putting in an AFK timeout will stop all the botters. Idiot. Even limiting cloaks wouldn't stop botters.
Grow a brain before you accuse people of being botters.
A lot of bots will dock up and stay docked if there's a neutral in system... this is the power an afk cloaker can have at controlling botting to a degree. If the botter then sets the cloaker to blue, it opens the cloaker to being able to take out the bot's ships.
Limiting cloaks would have the effect of making life easier for the botters... they wouldn't have to spend as much time docked and could bot more iskies faster.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD Tragedy.
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Posted - 2011.09.02 18:44:00 -
[285]
Originally by: foksieloy
Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi Grow a brain before you accuse people of being botters.
You desire to play the game without having to use your brain. You are the equivalent of a bot.
Thanks for proving my point.
Back on topic.
Yes I am aware that bots dock up or POS up when a neut/red is in system. But AFK cloakers don't target bot systems for the hell of it. Even then the bots usually just change systems for a while. Either way I doubt a change to AFK mechanics will effect bots at all. NO BOOBIES LEFT BEHIND! |
Sinikka Huiputti
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Posted - 2011.09.03 19:14:00 -
[286]
Edited by: Sinikka Huiputti on 03/09/2011 19:18:23 i think i've already maybe posted this but here it comes anyway since im bored and sitting in complete safety in hi sec
1. cloaking guy has to travel into system somehow first, people can shoot him while doing it 2. once cloaker has traveled n jumps in 0.0 space without jump bridges through n number of gatecamp he probably wants to take a small break aka go afk. Note this is most important part. it's pretty much way too much trouble to logoff login just to take a smoke break. and no you can't just go and make 30 jumps to nearest station just to afk. 3. once cloaker has done some stuff he will run out of ammo, nanite paste etc. stuff carebear cannot even think about he needs to go back to npc space to dock up and get more. again he has to go through n number of gatecamps whatever without jump bridges. 4. while doing cloaking stuff cloaker obviously cannot rat, trade in jita, do level 4's, do incursions etc.
so yeah, cloaking takes much more effort and risk than undocking from alliance outpost and warping to nearest asteroid belt. also uncloaking and actually shooting some ratter in big 0.0 blob alliance is more risky than undocking and warping to anomaly while 1 guy cloaked in system since you can just have your 5000 buddies cynoed in.
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Rina Asanari
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Posted - 2011.09.05 06:09:00 -
[287]
Whatever. The line "Everything is risky, no one should feel safe" is something AFK cloakers use ad nauseam. Using their own words, even they shouldn't feel safe enough to drop in a ship, cloak and be gone for the next 23.5 hours.
Thing is, a cloaker which doesn't seem to do anything might not be AFK at all, but busily logging the activity in the system. If he's doing it at all himself and haven't set up a bot to do such a thing.
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foksieloy
Minmatar Rockets ponies and rainbows
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Posted - 2011.09.05 06:39:00 -
[288]
Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi Thanks for proving my point.
Thanks for proving mine. Bot. _______________________ The best thing in EvE is Barrage M. |
Kameri Velith
Minmatar Wabbit Fabbit Industries Beacon Light Alliance
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Posted - 2011.09.05 09:01:00 -
[289]
First I am going to apologize, I only made it 5 pages before my eyes started bleeding and my brain cried for a little reason to be heard. So if my points have been addressed I am sorry. Second, I am not going to cite anyone specific as I am not trying to point fingers. So on to my points.
"Disrupted Productivity": This is bull****, the only person costing your supposed productivity is your own response, NOT the afker. YOU are choosing to be disrupted by his presence. YOU are failing to do your own intel gathering. YOU are afraid he might spot a cyno or appear suddenly in a stealth bomber. Does he have a record of flying SB? Does his corp/alliance have a record of cyno warfare? Do you even know?! YOU are being reactionary in a proactive game.
Fraps/Screen Reader/ETC: Yes, these tools can be used to gain an unfair advantage (by that I mean any advantage gained while not actively playing the game) and should likely fall under the category of botting HOWEVER they are purely passive and cant detected or enforced and could just as easily be performed by someone that has a half dozen monitors and adhd. The intel they gather and the "method" (sitting cloaked off the gate(s)) are perfectly legit and shouldnt be nerfed because some people are going to cheat.
"OMGS NERF CLOAKS!!1!": stfu, please. nerfing long term and long distance recon AND/OR making them annoying (randomly clicking "yes i want to stay cloaked" as an example) is a REALLY dumb and bad idea. Intel is central to any war, read the art of war if you dont believe me, and making the job of your intel gathering agents harder is just about the worst thing you could do.
"Nerf Local in 0.0": In my understanding of the game mechanics the local channel is loosely tied to the stargates, hence why WHs don't have an accurate one. The only reasonable change I could see to local in nulsec would be to remove/delay the appearance of people who arrived in system by non-stargate means. However that would strengthen cloaks so no one hear whats to hear that idea =P
I believe I have covered all of the reverent points however I can edit if after another eye bleeding 5 pages of trolling, stupidity, whining and ignorance I find another or two.
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jacob2471
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Posted - 2011.09.05 16:46:00 -
[290]
You TEST guys starting to feel the pressure?
Pay us our system ransom, 500m per system and we'll leave. Will me more effetive than starting an assembly hall thread over it.
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Georgik Sojik
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2011.09.05 17:17:00 -
[291]
Hello TEST and all the other Mega Alliances that hire just anybody.
As a former IAC member who felt just the same way back in 2007 when they rolled out covert ops ships, I too share this hatred for exploiters. Why can't people AFK mine / belt rat in 110% safety. This blatant exploit has gone far enough. Its not like isk generation has any direct relation to tactical advantages. Purchasing power means nothing, and if people can't mine/rat constantly, how will their alliance ever hold space. Come on people, think about this. As Miang Hawaa points out, anything that is possible while AFK'd is an exploit.
When I jump into 6VDT and I see 110 in local and all I have is a cheetah, I'm pretty scared, but then I realize that there are only about 5 or 6 people active, and everyone else is just AFK in the station or in their POS. This false sense of numbers in local is very misleading. If you're not actively clicking something you should be logged out and then your account banned for 23.5 hours. That will teach you to AFK, right?
This blatant exploit has gone on long enough. Players should not be allowed to have a tactical advantage while AFK at any point. False Local numbers has been a problem for a very long time. Everyone knows its a problem. Why hasn't anything been done?
What is being done about this frustrating problem?
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Straight Smuggin
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Posted - 2011.09.06 00:07:00 -
[292]
Originally by: Georgik Sojik Hello TEST and all the other Mega Alliances that hire just anybody.
As a former IAC member who felt just the same way back in 2007 when they rolled out covert ops ships, I too share this hatred for exploiters. Why can't people AFK mine / belt rat in 110% safety. This blatant exploit has gone far enough. Its not like isk generation has any direct relation to tactical advantages. Purchasing power means nothing, and if people can't mine/rat constantly, how will their alliance ever hold space. Come on people, think about this. As Miang Hawaa points out, anything that is possible while AFK'd is an exploit.
When I jump into 6VDT and I see 110 in local and all I have is a cheetah, I'm pretty scared, but then I realize that there are only about 5 or 6 people active, and everyone else is just AFK in the station or in their POS. This false sense of numbers in local is very misleading. If you're not actively clicking something you should be logged out and then your account banned for 23.5 hours. That will teach you to AFK, right?
This blatant exploit has gone on long enough. Players should not be allowed to have a tactical advantage while AFK at any point. False Local numbers has been a problem for a very long time. Everyone knows its a problem. Why hasn't anything been done?
What is being done about this frustrating problem?
Good post Georgik
Some of the carebear suggestions in this thread are fkn hillarious. System wide de-cloak? Afk tag? hahahahhaa, just learn to always be ready for a fight. if you cant defend the systems youre in at all times, maybe you should not blob supercaps to hold 150 systems that you dont have the numbers to defend all at once?
In short, GROW A PAIR
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Rina Asanari
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Posted - 2011.09.06 07:56:00 -
[293]
Originally by: Straight Smuggin Some of the carebear suggestions in this thread are fkn hillarious. System wide de-cloak? Afk tag? hahahahhaa, just learn to always be ready for a fight. if you cant defend the systems youre in at all times, maybe you should not blob supercaps to hold 150 systems that you dont have the numbers to defend all at once?
In short, GROW A PAIR
*yawn* I think plopping down a cloaker and just sitting there is not quite a sign of big balls, either. But enough of that talk about someone's miniscule (or nonexistent) gonads. Some people really have to heed their own words they're spouting, as stated in my previous posting.
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foksieloy
Minmatar Rockets ponies and rainbows
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Posted - 2011.09.06 08:13:00 -
[294]
AFK cloakers have nothing to do with balls. They are not there. They are neutral.
It is the carebears who are all about lack of balls.
Honestly, if this topic was renamed to: "PLEASE DEAR CCP I AM A LITTLE GIRL AND EVEIL PERSON IN LOCAL IS MAKING ME PEE MYSELF HALP!!!" I would support it. _______________________ The best thing in EvE is Barrage M. |
Eperor
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Posted - 2011.09.06 08:59:00 -
[295]
Originally by: Sinikka Huiputti Edited by: Sinikka Huiputti on 03/09/2011 19:18:23 i think i've already maybe posted this but here it comes anyway since im bored and sitting in complete safety in hi sec
1. cloaking guy has to travel into system somehow first, people can shoot him while doing it 2. once cloaker has traveled n jumps in 0.0 space without jump bridges through n number of gatecamp he probably wants to take a small break aka go afk. Note this is most important part. it's pretty much way too much trouble to logoff login just to take a smoke break. and no you can't just go and make 30 jumps to nearest station just to afk. 3. once cloaker has done some stuff he will run out of ammo, nanite paste etc. stuff carebear cannot even think about he needs to go back to npc space to dock up and get more. again he has to go through n number of gatecamps whatever without jump bridges. 4. while doing cloaking stuff cloaker obviously cannot rat, trade in jita, do level 4's, do incursions etc.
so yeah, cloaking takes much more effort and risk than undocking from alliance outpost and warping to nearest asteroid belt. also uncloaking and actually shooting some ratter in big 0.0 blob alliance is more risky than undocking and warping to anomaly while 1 guy cloaked in system since you can just have your 5000 buddies cynoed in.
For thos guys no propblem problem are thjops hoo stay afk days, weeks and months. I sa personaly in sytem 1 guy for 3 month not loging out i considering and was sutre that he is bot, for geting intels, he loged every time befor even i got online i specialy tried get online faster then him. So need to egt rid of thos bots to.
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Dont Tasemebro
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Posted - 2011.09.06 09:07:00 -
[296]
Originally by: Straight Smuggin
Good post Georgik
Some of the carebear suggestions in this thread are fkn hillarious. System wide de-cloak? Afk tag? hahahahhaa, just learn to always be ready for a fight. if you cant defend the systems youre in at all times, maybe you should not blob supercaps to hold 150 systems that you dont have the numbers to defend all at once?
In short, GROW A PAIR
yaya, always be ready to fight, right? unless you are cloaked in a safespot, because then you are 100% invulnerable and unprobable and don't need to be ready for a fight, you can go afk until your Mom turns your PC off because you're running up her electricity bill.
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Georgik Sojik
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2011.09.06 20:03:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Dont Tasemebro
yaya, always be ready to fight, right? unless you are cloaked in a safespot, because then you are 100% invulnerable and unprobable and don't need to be ready for a fight, you can go afk until your Mom turns your PC off because you're running up her electricity bill.
Hey, hi, hello. You seem to be one of the disillusioned masses.
I think we can both agree that your alliance is AFKing in your space just as much as anyone else. I don't usually play this game, I just log in hit a single button and inevitably wait for my mom to pull out the plug when she vacuums, but how is being cloaked in your space different then your 12,000 member alliance hiding their ships inside the 12 outposts, and/or the countless POSes that you have in cyno-jammed systems? I do remember seeing the words "Invulnerable" on many of those sov structures. If invulnerability is an exploit, well then I guess your sov structures need to come down.
But I think we're really getting to the heart of this problem. You were given all this space but not really told what that meant. So when someone comes in uninvited, you yell to CONDI for help. But of course, the Goons are busy actually being proactive in their space, so they won't come save you from the one cloaked probing alt. Perhaps, with time, your keepers can come down and teach you how to hold space. I mean, honestly, Fountain is just Goon renter space anyway. But I'm happy that you got your name up on the map, I'm sure your internet spaceship friends thing that's really something. That strong rallying cry of "We're our own person, and don't need Mommy CONDI...for most things."
Don't expect to have 6VDT in December. Winter is coming.
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