Originally by: Simetraz

---

Good.

Better to charge DUST players then to use the money from EVE.

Yes I know EVE money was used to develop DUST
but if DUST as a game doesn't show a profit then the money has to come from somewhere.

Don't complain, hope it is the biggest hit of the year and CCP gets a huge influx of new cash.

---

Originally by: Hilmar Veigar PTtursson, CCP

---

You're really getting the game for free but you have to pre-buy credits in the beginning. We might go fully free-to-play down the line, but in the beginning we have a cover charge just to manage the initial launch of it.

---

Quote:

---

"yep, this car is ú12000, but it's free because you get ú12,000 worth of car when you pay for it".

---

Originally by: Twilight Runner

---

Edited by: Twilight Runner on 11/07/2011 15:08:44
Linky to eurogamer article

---

Originally by: Harcosi

---

Rofl, this isn't going to go well.

Seriously, you buy the game, and then to play it you have to pay money before you can use it? I would return the game straight away and demand a refund.

---

Originally by: K'iran

---

Originally by: Harcosi

---

Rofl, this isn't going to go well.

Seriously, you buy the game, and then to play it you have to pay money before you can use it? I would return the game straight away and demand a refund.

---

You should probably reread the article again.

---

Originally by: Harcosi

---

You buy the game.
Then pay the "cover charge".

What exactly am I re-reading?

---

Originally by: Harcosi

---

You buy the game.
Then pay the "cover charge".

What exactly am I re-reading?

---

Originally by: Astorian Darkstar

---

"It may be a basic thing people don't realise, but with Dust and Eve on Sony's network, we can allow them to chat together. Voice chat, text chat, that's all one world."

Kinda interested in what this entails. With their recent security troubles and ongoing legal issues due to those troubles, pretty sure I don't want my EVE account info anywhere near Sony's network.

---

Originally by: Tippia

---

Originally by: Harcosi

---

You buy the game.
Then pay the "cover charge".

What exactly am I re-reading?

---

The "then" bit.
You buy the game. That purchase comes in the form of a cover charge that is converted into AUR.

---

Originally by: Harcosi

---

This doesn't make sense, the pre-order price is listed as $60

---

Originally by: Tippia

---

Originally by: Harcosi

---

This doesn't make sense, the pre-order price is listed as $60

---

That's because the pre-order is nonsense. It's a PSN downloadable.

---

Originally by: Harcosi

---

So the $60 will be the price for the poor bastards that have crappy internet and will get double slugged a fee to play?

---

Originally by: Harcosi

---

Yeah, I appreciated the fact that ONE WEEK after the fact they told everyone that their information had been compromised, and I had to cancel my credit card... Loved it, ONE GODDAMN WEEK.

---

Quote:

---

ôWhat, exactly, you'll be able to spend your virtual money on is yet to be decided.ö

"There are no plans, and have been no plans to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."

---

Originally by: Tippia

---

Originally by: Harcosi

---

So the $60 will be the price for the poor bastards that have crappy internet and will get double slugged a fee to play?

---

Poor bastards that have crappy internet should probably not play an MT-based MMOFPS.

And where are you getting that $60 price? Sounds more like some retail outfit is making unfounded assumptionsà

---

Originally by: Oberine Noriepa

---

Read the rest of my post. Sony's networks won't be used for Dust 514. If you're so worried about credit card information being leaked, use a pre-paid PSN card to purchase your stuff. That's what I've been doing. No hassle, and no sensitive information involved.

---

Originally by: Harcosi

---

Meh, no mouse, no care.

---

Originally by: Smoking Blunts

---

am i missing something or confused?

aur is used by dusties. aur has to be paid to dusties by alliances for sov. alliances have to buy plex's to convert to aur to pay dusties.
alliances are pushing the prices up to pay for sov.

and this is ok with everyone?

---

Quote:

---

"We have some initial assumptions but we'll put it out there and see how the player base during the trials reacts to it," CCP said.

---

Originally by: Harcosi

---

Originally by: Tippia

---

Originally by: Harcosi

---

This doesn't make sense, the pre-order price is listed as $60

---

That's because the pre-order is nonsense. It's a PSN downloadable.

---

So the $60 will be the price for the poor bastards that have crappy internet and will get double slugged a fee to play?

---

Originally by: Harcosi

---

Some people have a good connection, good download speed, but have a small download limit. Not everyone in the world has unlimited, uncapped internet.

---

Quote:

---

The price comes from Tutskii's post in this thread.

---

Originally by: Cloora

---

I love how people in this thread and in the comments section of the article are appalled that CCP is going to charge money for a game they invested their money into.

---

Originally by: Tippia

---

Originally by: Cloora

---

I love how people in this thread and in the comments section of the article are appalled that CCP is going to charge money for a game they invested their money into.

---

They're not. They're just laughing their asses off that CCP is calling it "free".

---

Originally by: Dr Fighter

---

"how do you know when youve had a repro accident"

Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.

---

Originally by: Taedrin

---

Where did CCP say it was going to be "free"?

---

Originally by: Tippia

---

Edited by: Tippia on 11/07/2011 17:08:52

Originally by: Cloora

---

I love how people in this thread and in the comments section of the article are appalled that CCP is going to charge money for a game they invested their money into.

---

They're not. They're just laughing their asses off at CCP calling it "free".

As someone said in the comments: it's free in the same sense as buying a $13k car is free ù sure, you pay $13k, but they throw in a $13k car!

---

Originally by: Tippia

---

Originally by: Taedrin

---

Where did CCP say it was going to be "free"?

---

In the fanfest presentations, iirc.

---

Originally by: Dr Fighter

---

"how do you know when youve had a repro accident"

Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.

---

Originally by: Ranger 1

---

So a more accurate analogy would be that you spend your $13k and get $13k worth of gas. Not quite as silly now eh?

---

Originally by: Mister Smithington

---

So, we have a $20 initial purchase needed to play the game and they give you $20 worth of Aur. Unless that $20 buys all the gear you need forever (and let's keep in mind that 20 bucks barely buys a skirt in the NeX) you have to pay again and again to remain competitive.

Isn't this the Double-billing Saint Turbefield warned against?

---

Originally by: Mister Smithington

---

So, we have a $20 initial purchase needed to play the game and they give you $20 worth of Aur. Unless that $20 buys all the gear you need forever (and let's keep in mind that 20 bucks barely buys a skirt in the NeX) you have to pay again and again to remain competitive.

Isn't this the Double-billing Saint Turbefield warned against?

---

Originally by: Cloora

---

Originally by: Mister Smithington

---

So, we have a $20 initial purchase needed to play the game and they give you $20 worth of Aur. Unless that $20 buys all the gear you need forever (and let's keep in mind that 20 bucks barely buys a skirt in the NeX) you have to pay again and again to remain competitive.

Isn't this the Double-billing Saint Turbefield warned against?

---

Are you paying a subscription fee for Dust? No. That is the F2P model. Some of you must have never played them. I bought DDO and LOTRO when they were sub based games and then they went F2P. Stop complaining and realize CCP ain't a charity they are a business. They HAVE to make money. There is no other reason for a company to exist. But most if you are too immature to have the experiance of running a successful business. Or you just don't get it.

---

Originally by: Tippia

---

Nah. It's the standard pay-to-play MT business model. What he warned against was trying to do the same to players who already pay a subscription fee.

---

Originally by: Cloora

---

Are you paying a subscription fee for Dust? No. That is the F2P model. Some of you must have never played them. I bought DDO and LOTRO when they were sub based games and then they went F2P. Stop complaining and realize CCP ain't a charity they are a business. They HAVE to make money. There is no other reason for a company to exist. But most if you are too immature to have the experiance of running a successful business. Or you just don't get it.

---

Quote:

---

What, exactly, you'll be able to spend your virtual money on is yet to be decided.

---

Originally by: Mister Smithington

---

So, we have a $20 initial purchase needed to play the game and they give you $20 worth of Aur. Unless that $20 buys all the gear you need forever (and let's keep in mind that 20 bucks barely buys a skirt in the NeX) you have to pay again and again to remain competitive.

Isn't this the Double-billing Saint Turbefield warned against?

---

Originally by: Mister Smithington

---

Originally by: Tippia

---

Nah. It's the standard pay-to-play MT business model. What he warned against was trying to do the same to players who already pay a subscription fee.

---

It's the standard f2p/p2w model for PC MMOs (although most of those don't have a box cost). I don't think you can translate the model precisely over to consoles. The market is different and the expectations are different.


Subscription-based console games are usually met with resistance in my experience. Most console players expect a box cost and only a box cost. Maybe a few bucks every few months for optional DLC, and those are expected to be expansion worthy (Knights of the Nine for Oblivion, Zombie Island of Dr. Ned for Borderlands).

We'll see how the console crowd reacts when you tell them they have to continue to pay to be competitive in the game they just spent a cover charge on.

---

Originally by: Myfanwy Heimdal

---

Sorry, but to me it just looks like Quake with knobs on.

Then again I have never been one for consoles anyway being of a generation of those who struggled through "you are in a maze of twisty passages" - on teletype machines.

---

Originally by: Khamelean

---

Edited by: Khamelean on 11/07/2011 18:33:46
Edited by: Khamelean on 11/07/2011 18:31:52

Originally by: Mister Smithington

---

So, we have a $20 initial purchase needed to play the game and they give you $20 worth of Aur. Unless that $20 buys all the gear you need forever (and let's keep in mind that 20 bucks barely buys a skirt in the NeX) you have to pay again and again to remain competitive.

Isn't this the Double-billing Saint Turbefield warned against?

---

Everything in dust will be purchasable with isk (either directly or indirectly), much like eve, if you earn enough isk you can play for free. If you die a lot at some point you may have to shell out for some more clones and basic equipment. Much like eve your equipment goes bye bye when you die, in an fps you will die a lot. So if you run out of clones, equipment and isk, you can buy your way back in with cash.

Gear will bought with ISK, since you can buy isk with cash via plex, there is no more p2win than there is in eve.

I'm looking forward to funding my dust character with isk earned with my capsuleer :)

---

Originally by: Mister Smithington

---

I'm sure there will be a HUGE demand for Pilot's License EXtensions in Dust which has no subscription.

The dust 514 website clearly states that there will be items that will only be available for AUR. They have also said that the flowchart goes PS Wallet -> Aur -> Items. There is no plex, and no reason to engage in the player market.

Let me ask you this, if you had just shelled out 100 dollars for the god gun, why would you sell it?

---

Quote:

---

ISK earned in battle can be spent on the primary market to stock up on the latest items û weapons, turrets, equipment, armor, and modules û or search for bargains on the secondary player-driven market. Customize existing gear or purchase advanced and prototype weaponry and equipment for that extra edge on the battlefield.

---

Originally by: Soi Mala

---

Originally by: Cloora

---

Originally by: Mister Smithington

---

So, we have a $20 initial purchase needed to play the game and they give you $20 worth of Aur. Unless that $20 buys all the gear you need forever (and let's keep in mind that 20 bucks barely buys a skirt in the NeX) you have to pay again and again to remain competitive.

Isn't this the Double-billing Saint Turbefield warned against?

---

Are you paying a subscription fee for Dust? No. That is the F2P model. Some of you must have never played them. I bought DDO and LOTRO when they were sub based games and then they went F2P. Stop complaining and realize CCP ain't a charity they are a business. They HAVE to make money. There is no other reason for a company to exist. But most if you are too immature to have the experiance of running a successful business. Or you just don't get it.

---

Eve became profitable at 50k subs. So, having around tripled that number now, they don't HAVE to milk every player for all they're worth. Just sayin.

---

Originally by: Khira Kitamatsu

---

OK let me get this straight. Dust players play for free, except the cost of the subscription to PSN? However, they can by upgrades, vehicles, extra troops and other P2W items on their version of NEX.

Now let me also get this straight. EVE players can contract Dust players using Aurum? Aurum is the money used by Dust players to buy their whatever P2W items?

EVE players contract Dust players to take and hold planets?

So how is this not game breaking?

If EVE players bank roll Dust players using real money, converting it to Plex, then to Aurum, then contract Dust players to take and hold planets. Dust players then can take the Aurum from the contracts then use the Aurum to buy P2W items.

How is that not game breaking?

Am I wrong or is this essentially how this will work?

---

Originally by: Khira Kitamatsu

---

OK let me get this straight. Dust players play for free, except the cost of the subscription to PSN? However, they can by upgrades, vehicles, extra troops and other P2W items on their version of NEX.

Now let me also get this straight. EVE players can contract Dust players using Aurum? Aurum is the money used by Dust players to buy their whatever P2W items?

EVE players contract Dust players to take and hold planets?

So how is this not game breaking?

If EVE players bank roll Dust players using real money, converting it to Plex, then to Aurum, then contract Dust players to take and hold planets. Dust players then can take the Aurum from the contracts then use the Aurum to buy P2W items.

How is that not game breaking?

Am I wrong or is this essentially how this will work?

---

Originally by: Khamelean

---

Originally by: Khira Kitamatsu

---

OK let me get this straight. Dust players play for free, except the cost of the subscription to PSN? However, they can by upgrades, vehicles, extra troops and other P2W items on their version of NEX.

Now let me also get this straight. EVE players can contract Dust players using Aurum? Aurum is the money used by Dust players to buy their whatever P2W items?

EVE players contract Dust players to take and hold planets?

So how is this not game breaking?

If EVE players bank roll Dust players using real money, converting it to Plex, then to Aurum, then contract Dust players to take and hold planets. Dust players then can take the Aurum from the contracts then use the Aurum to buy P2W items.

How is that not game breaking?

Am I wrong or is this essentially how this will work?

---

There is no subscription fee to the PSN, it's free.
EVE players can contract Dust players using ISK.
The primary currency in dust will be ISK.

---

Originally by: Khira Kitamatsu

---

OK, but will Dust players have access to P2W items on their NEX store?

---

Originally by: Khamelean

---

Quote:

---

ISK earned in battle can be spent on the primary market to stock up on the latest items û weapons, turrets, equipment, armor, and modules û or search for bargains on the secondary player-driven market. Customize existing gear or purchase advanced and prototype weaponry and equipment for that extra edge on the battlefield.

---

Linkage

Even if there is gear only purchasable for aurum, aurum can be bought with isk.

If I had just shelled out $100 on the market, I would glad;y sell it on the market, if i could combine the money i made from the sale with my current wallet to buy a $150 gun.

---

Originally by: Mister Smithington

---

Show me a quote where it says aurum can be bought directly with isk. Currently Aurum is not transferable. Only the things Aurum can buy are transferable. So, again, explain to me why I should sell you my god gun instead of just owning you repeatedly with it.

---

Originally by: Faith Clothos

---

Khamelean is a CCP dev alt, Zyrfindel's, I think.

As for the rest, I don't think anyone is complaining about Dust's model, but rather pointing out how ******ed it is.

Even quality games given away for actually free, that were free to play (Metal Gear Online) have tournament support, etc, have trouble monetizing microtransactions.

A generic, bland, FOTM Unreal engine microtransaction game with a cover charge as big as you can spend on buying better games, with single player and actually populated multiplayer environments?

I laugh.

As a Ps3 owner, I can say that the more that is known about Dust, the less interested I am in it.

Euphemisms like "free with virtual currency purchase" insult the customer and don't help.

But hey, its gonna be a great way to pick up AUR/ISK for cheap when it hits the bargain bin.

---

Originally by: Faith Clothos

---

Khamelean is a CCP dev alt, Zyrfindel's, I think.

As for the rest, I don't think anyone is complaining about Dust's model, but rather pointing out how ******ed it is.

Even quality games given away for actually free, that were free to play (Metal Gear Online) have tournament support, etc, have trouble monetizing microtransactions.

A generic, bland, FOTM Unreal engine microtransaction game with a cover charge as big as you can spend on buying better games, with single player and actually populated multiplayer environments?

I laugh.

As a Ps3 owner, I can say that the more that is known about Dust, the less interested I am in it.

Euphemisms like "free with virtual currency purchase" insult the customer and don't help.

But hey, its gonna be a great way to pick up AUR/ISK for cheap when it hits the bargain bin.

---

Originally by: Bullyboutya

---

Originally by: Mister Smithington

---

Originally by: Tippia

---

Nah. It's the standard pay-to-play MT business model. What he warned against was trying to do the same to players who already pay a subscription fee.

---

It's the standard f2p/p2w model for PC MMOs (although most of those don't have a box cost). I don't think you can translate the model precisely over to consoles. The market is different and the expectations are different.


Subscription-based console games are usually met with resistance in my experience. Most console players expect a box cost and only a box cost. Maybe a few bucks every few months for optional DLC, and those are expected to be expansion worthy (Knights of the Nine for Oblivion, Zombie Island of Dr. Ned for Borderlands).

We'll see how the console crowd reacts when you tell them they have to continue to pay to be competitive in the game they just spent a cover charge on.

---

I'm console gamer(PS3) and PC gamer. The problem with the console why I switched back over to the PC is. All developers for consoles now ship games out 75% complete with the the other 25% being charged to you via DLC.

First off only dummies buy games this GEN. Gamefly have saved me soooooooooo much money it's not even funny. I use to play every single new game that came out thanks to gamefly. Then laughed at all the dummies who blew $60 on an incomplete game.

I would rather pay $10-20 instead of $60 for an incomplete game and day. CCP is smart in this aspect no disc version digital down load only. That cuts off Gamefly, and Gamestop :) so the smart consumer will look at Dust as a $10 or $20 buy brillant :)

---

Originally by: Nybbas

---

Originally by: Faith Clothos

---

Khamelean is a CCP dev alt, Zyrfindel's, I think.

As for the rest, I don't think anyone is complaining about Dust's model, but rather pointing out how ******ed it is.

Even quality games given away for actually free, that were free to play (Metal Gear Online) have tournament support, etc, have trouble monetizing microtransactions.

A generic, bland, FOTM Unreal engine microtransaction game with a cover charge as big as you can spend on buying better games, with single player and actually populated multiplayer environments?

I laugh.

As a Ps3 owner, I can say that the more that is known about Dust, the less interested I am in it.

Euphemisms like "free with virtual currency purchase" insult the customer and don't help.

But hey, its gonna be a great way to pick up AUR/ISK for cheap when it hits the bargain bin.

---

The stupid... it's killing my brain. Please stop posting, you and all the other morons who don't have a clue. Why is it always the stupid people who post the most, and the loudest? WHYYYY?

---

Originally by: Mister Smithington

---

Your rage is delicious.

I'm well aware CCP is a company. I'm well aware they're here to make money. Although having seen some of their recent business decisions I have to wonder if CCP is aware of that.

I wonder how many superlasers the MT dusters are going to buy when there are no "freeloading spectators" to shoot it at.

---

Originally by: Cloora

---

Originally by: Mister Smithington

---

Your rage is delicious.

I'm well aware CCP is a company. I'm well aware they're here to make money. Although having seen some of their recent business decisions I have to wonder if CCP is aware of that.

I wonder how many superlasers the MT dusters are going to buy when there are no "freeloading spectators" to shoot it at.

---

Your meme is incorrect. Your tears are delicious, not rage...

Anyways, you may be aware but you don't seem to understand how it all works.

---

Quote:

---

"With our agreement with Sony they seem to be fine with our three month expansion cycle. They've been looking at the MMO space for a while, trying to understand why something like that hasn't still happened on the console. They're coming to terms with it. There are certain things they have to relax just to allow these things to function."

---

Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose

---

Edited by: Cashcow Golden Goose on 11/07/2011 15:13:04
How come everything that comes out of Hilmar's mouth in the last month just feels like the embodiement of pure unchecked greed and evil?

Can anybody feel any good still in him?

---

Originally by: Blacksquirrel

---

Originally by: Simetraz

---

Good.

Better to charge DUST players then to use the money from EVE.

Yes I know EVE money was used to develop DUST
but if DUST as a game doesn't show a profit then the money has to come from somewhere.

Don't complain, hope it is the biggest hit of the year and CCP gets a huge influx of new cash.

---

What you mean to tell me you paid a corporation and they used (Now their money) to further develope other things besides just the product you just bought?!!!

****ing outrageous!!!

From now on gaming companies can only use money from a single game for profit or for that game... NO OTHER TITLES!!! Everyone starts anew.

---

Originally by: Mister Smithington

---

I have said that CCP has made very stupid decisions recently.

The NeX store is a fantastic example. If CCP wanted to make a mint, they'd price everything at impulse-buy levels and make them destructible. The CSM more or less stated in their statement that the NeX store implementation was incompetently handled.

---

Originally by: Misha M'Liena

---

Khamelean, Your either Hilmar or Zulu. Your posts are so polished and ccp worded. It is obvious your a dev. I don't care one way or the other. But to quote a few people here *Post with your main*

Nex was badly handled. To say otherwise shows you work for ccp. To make the most cash, the prices shoulda been low. And the products destroyable. Ie repeat business.
Terribly bad business decision there. Sorry Khamelean but it was.

Misha.

---

Originally by: Khamelean

---

Edited by: Khamelean on 12/07/2011 04:34:32

Originally by: Misha M'Liena

---

Khamelean, Your either Hilmar or Zulu. Your posts are so polished and ccp worded. It is obvious your a dev. I don't care one way or the other. But to quote a few people here *Post with your main*

Nex was badly handled. To say otherwise shows you work for ccp. To make the most cash, the prices shoulda been low. And the products destroyable. Ie repeat business.
Terribly bad business decision there. Sorry Khamelean but it was.

Misha.

---

This is my main.

---

Originally by: Bullyboutya

---

First off only dummies buy games this GEN. Gamefly have saved me soooooooooo much money it's not even funny. I use to play every single new game that came out thanks to gamefly. Then laughed at all the dummies who blew $60 on an incomplete game.

I would rather pay $10-20 instead of $60 for an incomplete game and day. CCP is smart in this aspect no disc version digital down load only. That cuts off Gamefly, and Gamestop :) so the smart consumer will look at Dust as a $10 or $20 buy brillant :)

---

Originally by: Khamelean

---

Edited by: Khamelean on 12/07/2011 04:34:32

Originally by: Misha M'Liena

---

Khamelean, Your either Hilmar or Zulu. Your posts are so polished and ccp worded. It is obvious your a dev. I don't care one way or the other. But to quote a few people here *Post with your main*

Nex was badly handled. To say otherwise shows you work for ccp. To make the most cash, the prices shoulda been low. And the products destroyable. Ie repeat business.
Terribly bad business decision there. Sorry Khamelean but it was.

Misha.

---

This is my main. I'm sorry if my grammar, spelling and logic offend you.

If they had done as you suggested they would have destroyed the eve economy, possibly beyond repair. There is more to making good business decisions than "make the most cash as soon as possible".

The NEX store was handled badly, but not because of the pricing. What they screwed up was player expectations.

---

Originally by: Faith Clothos

---

Very possible its his main as he does not usually post or play on Zinfandel.

However, some interesting tidbits about Khamelean:

Born the same month as CCP Zinfaindel with a difference of 13 days. This is two months after Zinfaindel started his employment at CCP.

Speaks like a marketing hack.

Carefully worded statements mirroring CCP marketing positions.

Speaks with authority about the game, despite his only game experience being (if this is indeed his main as he claims) Eve University, a high sec training corp.

Up to 2011.06.26, he had 2 posts both dealing with EVE lore. 180 posts since then written with authority and knowledge dealing with MT pricing, and the NEX.

Khamelean = Chameleon. Although in this case he is not particularly good at blending with his surroundings.

Khamelean is CCP Zinfaindel doing undercover marketing while misrepresenting himself as a member of the playerbase instead of a CCP marketing guy.

Yes, the same Zinfaindel that bought a Spectral Tiger for WOW according to the minutes, and who introduced the current round of nonsense.

How about actually posting with your bluebar and you know, having an honest discussion with the community. Perhaps listening to them for a change?

---

Originally by: Khamelean

---

Originally by: Faith Clothos

---

Very possible its his main as he does not usually post or play on Zinfandel.

However, some interesting tidbits about Khamelean:

Born the same month as CCP Zinfaindel with a difference of 13 days. This is two months after Zinfaindel started his employment at CCP.

Speaks like a marketing hack.

Carefully worded statements mirroring CCP marketing positions.

Speaks with authority about the game, despite his only game experience being (if this is indeed his main as he claims) Eve University, a high sec training corp.

Up to 2011.06.26, he had 2 posts both dealing with EVE lore. 180 posts since then written with authority and knowledge dealing with MT pricing, and the NEX.

Khamelean = Chameleon. Although in this case he is not particularly good at blending with his surroundings.

Khamelean is CCP Zinfaindel doing undercover marketing while misrepresenting himself as a member of the playerbase instead of a CCP marketing guy.

Yes, the same Zinfaindel that bought a Spectral Tiger for WOW according to the minutes, and who introduced the current round of nonsense.

How about actually posting with your bluebar and you know, having an honest discussion with the community. Perhaps listening to them for a change?

---

Damn, that's a lot of tinfoil...

---

Originally by: Khamelean

---

Originally by: Faith Clothos

---

Very possible its his main as he does not usually post or play on Zinfandel.

However, some interesting tidbits about Khamelean:

Born the same month as CCP Zinfaindel with a difference of 13 days. This is two months after Zinfaindel started his employment at CCP.

Speaks like a marketing hack.

Carefully worded statements mirroring CCP marketing positions.

Speaks with authority about the game, despite his only game experience being (if this is indeed his main as he claims) Eve University, a high sec training corp.

Up to 2011.06.26, he had 2 posts both dealing with EVE lore. 180 posts since then written with authority and knowledge dealing with MT pricing, and the NEX.

Khamelean = Chameleon. Although in this case he is not particularly good at blending with his surroundings.

Khamelean is CCP Zinfaindel doing undercover marketing while misrepresenting himself as a member of the playerbase instead of a CCP marketing guy.

Yes, the same Zinfaindel that bought a Spectral Tiger for WOW according to the minutes, and who introduced the current round of nonsense.

How about actually posting with your bluebar and you know, having an honest discussion with the community. Perhaps listening to them for a change?

---

Damn, that's a lot of tinfoil...

---

Originally by: Khamelean

---

Damn, that's a lot of tinfoil...

---

Originally by: Khamelea

---

It's a said indicator on the state of the community if sounding knowledgeable and thinking about what you say is considered evidence that your not part of the community.

At first I thought you just trolling for a laugh, but I'm starting to think actually believe what your saying. So just to clarify, I'm not a dev. I don't work for CCP.

I'd love to see which post of mine your referring to where I "speak with authority". The only authority I speak with is that of someone who plays the game and reads the website.

---

Originally by: Khamelean

---

Whoops, posting from my phone since I'm at work and don't have computer access here. That would be my alt.

---

Originally by: Medidranda Livoga

---

They could handle plex price increase fears by allowing people to buy Aurum directly for their characters with somewhat better ratio than from plex conversion.

---

Originally by: Nikayte Askiras

---

LMAO!!!! You will be hard pressed to find someone to pay $60 for some old, out dated engine's piece of sh*t, and now you have to pay a $20 dollar cover charge to get in!?! LOL...$80 in total to play some Unreal engine 3 game.

This game is going to fail so hard, and I'm going to laugh when CCP starts looking like Greece's debt problem.

---

Originally by: Khamelean

---

The problem with solution is that it negates one of primary purposes of aurum, which is a plex sink. It's designed to slowly drain excess plex out of the market. It was not designed as a cash grab. There are much better ways do that, had it been there goal.

---

Quote:

---

Despite the payment, CCP insists gamers are getting Dust 514, which ties into PC-exclusive MMO Eve Online, for free.

---

Originally by: Khamelean

---

Originally by: Nikayte Askiras

---

LMAO!!!! You will be hard pressed to find someone to pay $60 for some old, out dated engine's piece of sh*t, and now you have to pay a $20 dollar cover charge to get in!?! LOL...$80 in total to play some Unreal engine 3 game.

This game is going to fail so hard, and I'm going to laugh when CCP starts looking like Greece's debt problem.

---

First of all, where did you pull the $60 from? The only initial cost for the game is the $10-$20 cover charge.

As for using an old engine. Portal 2 sold pretty damn well, it uses the source engine which is getting close to a decade old now. Gears of war 3 uses the unreal engine, I doubt it will have the troubles your predicting.

---

Originally by: Khamelean

---

The pricing in the next store was a brilliant decision, although it was poorly communicated.

---

Quote:

---

I agree that if they had made the prices much lower at impulse buy level they would have made much more money. But the also would have driven the demand for plex up to ridiculous extremes, which would have in turn inflated the price.

---

Quote:

---

If the isk price of plex goes up, the value of the entire eve economy goes down. If CCP had done as you suggested, they would have made lots more money on the NEX store, but then cause the eve economy to crash, destroying the rest of the game.

---

Quote:

---

Now if only they had of communicated this better to the players...

---

Originally by: Twilight Runner

---

Edited by: Twilight Runner on 11/07/2011 15:08:44
Linky to eurogamer article

---

Originally by: Astorian Darkstar

---

"Kinda interested in what this entails. With their recent security troubles and ongoing legal issues due to those troubles, pretty sure I don't want my EVE account info anywhere near Sony's network.

---

Originally by: Khamelean

---

The pricing in the next store was a brilliant decision, although it was poorly communicated.

---

Quote:

---

But the also would have driven the demand for plex up to ridiculous extremes, which would have in turn inflated the price.

---

Quote:

---

If the isk price of plex goes up, the value of the entire eve economy goes down.

---

Quote:

---

They chose wisely.

Now if only they had of communicated this better to the players...

---

Originally by: Fernacasso Atoll

---

I know when you wrote this you probably thought you had a really good line of reasoning going, but the simple reality is that the eveconomy has no value. It's not a commodity, it's not a service, it's not an investment, it's just plain old data, and I'm not saying this like "lol, pixelz" literally, the whole economy is data. In order for something to have "value", it must be exchangeable for other goods or currency. The eveconomy has no such exchange-ability because it's worthless. Sure, you buy plex, for the isk, but plex does not convert back. It doesn't gain value or lose value, it's stagnant, because it's a service, not an investment, not even a commodity. Let me illustrate my point, if I'm a child and I buy a clump of dirt from someone for 15 bucks, then go to my friends and say "I'll give you this clump of dirt for oh say.....20 ants" And they agree because the amount of effort it takes to collect those ants is equal to the value of the dirt in their minds, it doesn't mean the ants suddenly magically have a real life market value of 15 bucks to 20 ants just because I was actually willing to spend 15 bucks for them. Quite simply, isk has no value, it has internal value to us as players and we dictate whether we feel the 15 bucks is worth it or if the loss of isk is worth the saving of 15 bucks. IF plex suddenly gets a new common use, it may go for more on the isk market but that doesn't mean that the game is destroyed because suddenly it was more difficult to buy plex. Plex isn't THAT important.

---

Originally by: Gurgeh Murat

---

Originally by: Khamelean

---

The problem with solution is that it negates one of primary purposes of aurum, which is a plex sink. It's designed to slowly drain excess plex out of the market. It was not designed as a cash grab. There are much better ways do that, had it been there goal.

---

Y'see, I would probably have phrased that thought as "I think the problem with that solution is that it would negate what seems to be one of the primary purposes of aurum, which is as plex sink"

Then again, Im not a dev alt who came up with the idea so I guess I would have to word it differently. Otherwise my words sound like a determined, established fact. If you know this to be true khamelean, please do post a link to said source.

If you cannot source this statement you are either

A) Dev alt

B) A fountain of self assured fail spouting your conjecture and opinion as established fact.

I eagerly await your response sir.

---

Originally by: Tippia

---

which would have made people get more PLEX to sell on the market, so the price would have deflated the price.

---

Quote:

---

If you're concerned at this point that this will in some way impact PLEX prices then we're ahead of you there. We'll be monitoring the PLEX market extremely closely and making sure certain equilibrium is maintained in pricing. We have various tools to ensure that, but the most important one is keeping Aurum as a separate currency with set conversion from PLEX.

---

Quote:

---

Important note here. This is about learning. We need to learn about this stuff. We are just dipping our toes into the water here, seeing how this all works while being careful not to mess up the economy. So far, we've been successful at protecting the EVE economy. PLEX prices on the ISK market are currently unaffected.

---

Originally by: Khamelean

---

Originally by: Gurgeh Murat

---

Originally by: Khamelean

---

The problem with solution is that it negates one of primary purposes of aurum, which is a plex sink. It's designed to slowly drain excess plex out of the market. It was not designed as a cash grab. There are much better ways do that, had it been there goal.

---

Y'see, I would probably have phrased that thought as "I think the problem with that solution is that it would negate what seems to be one of the primary purposes of aurum, which is as plex sink"

Then again, Im not a dev alt who came up with the idea so I guess I would have to word it differently. Otherwise my words sound like a determined, established fact. If you know this to be true khamelean, please do post a link to said source.

If you cannot source this statement you are either

A) Dev alt

B) A fountain of self assured fail spouting your conjecture and opinion as established fact.

I eagerly await your response sir.

---

Much of spoken and wirtten english talks of people thoughts and opinions without the use of "in my opinon" or "I think". These very forums are full of people talking about their personal opinion that use wording that imply fact. I don't see you demanding response from them, or for from the rest of the history of english literature? But just because everyone else is doing it is not much of an excuse for poor behaviour i guess, so let me explain my chosen wording further.

Where I use wording that would imply fact, it is because i have seen enough evidence to convince me that it is. If I talk in terms of opinion, then i refer to an idea that probably requires further justification.

If that does not satisfy you, then feel free to pre-pend the words "In my opinion" before each and all of my posts.

---

Originally by: Khamelean

---

That's true, but it would have definitely caused fluctuations. The eve economy is a delicate boat, CCP doesn't want to rock it to hard.

---

Originally by: Khamelean

---

All that is required for something to have value is for someone to want it.

---

Originally by: Khamelean

---

Originally by: Mister Smithington

---

I have said that CCP has made very stupid decisions recently.

The NeX store is a fantastic example. If CCP wanted to make a mint, they'd price everything at impulse-buy levels and make them destructible. The CSM more or less stated in their statement that the NeX store implementation was incompetently handled.

---

The pricing in the next store was a brilliant decision, although it was poorly communicated. I agree that if they had made the prices much lower at impulse buy level they would have made much more money. But the also would have driven the demand for plex up to ridiculous extremes, which would have in turn inflated the price.

If the isk price of plex goes up, the value of the entire eve economy goes down. If CCP had done as you suggested, they would have made lots more money on the NEX store, but then cause the eve economy to crash, destroying the rest of the game.

They had a choice;

a) more money and a broken game

or

b) less money and a working game.

They chose wisely.

Now if only they had of communicated this better to the players...

---

Originally by: Callic Veratar

---

I was always under the impression that the game would be a $60 box and was delighted to find it would be a $15 downloadable game. Is $15 too expensive for you? If so, what is wrong with you? You already play a game that's $15/mo.

---

Originally by: Mister Smithington

---

I would have been much happier with a normal retail $50-$60 box cost. . .

---

Originally by: Khamelean

---

Originally by: Gurgeh Murat

---

Originally by: Khamelean

---

The problem with solution is that it negates one of primary purposes of aurum, which is a plex sink. It's designed to slowly drain excess plex out of the market. It was not designed as a cash grab. There are much better ways do that, had it been there goal.

---

Y'see, I would probably have phrased that thought as "I think the problem with that solution is that it would negate what seems to be one of the primary purposes of aurum, which is as plex sink"

Then again, Im not a dev alt who came up with the idea so I guess I would have to word it differently. Otherwise my words sound like a determined, established fact. If you know this to be true khamelean, please do post a link to said source.

If you cannot source this statement you are either

A) Dev alt

B) A fountain of self assured fail spouting your conjecture and opinion as established fact.

I eagerly await your response sir.

---

Much of spoken and wirtten english talks of people thoughts and opinions without the use of "in my opinon" or "I think". These very forums are full of people talking about their personal opinion that use wording that imply fact. I don't see you demanding response from them, or for from the rest of the history of english literature? But just because everyone else is doing it is not much of an excuse for poor behaviour i guess, so let me explain my chosen wording further.

Where I use wording that would imply fact, it is because i have seen enough evidence to convince me that it is. If I talk in terms of opinion, then i refer to an idea that probably requires further justification.

If that does not satisfy you, then feel free to pre-pend the words "In my opinion" before each and all of my posts.

---

Originally by: Jumpman 23

---

Originally by: Twilight Runner

---

Edited by: Twilight Runner on 11/07/2011 15:08:44
Linky to eurogamer article

---

10$-20$.

but you don't have to pay for the game itself.

---

Originally by: Zey Nadar

---

Edited by: Zey Nadar on 13/07/2011 18:26:53

Originally by: Jumpman 23

---

Originally by: Twilight Runner

---

Edited by: Twilight Runner on 11/07/2011 15:08:44
Linky to eurogamer article

---

10$-20$.

but you don't have to pay for the game itself.

---

Ok nvm its not too much to pay for a game, but seriously, people should stop using the word "free". Im 100% sure dust is very far from "free".

---

Originally by: Cloora

---

It is entertaining too see all you people RAGE over the fact that Khameleon agrees with CCPs decision.

I too agree with most of CCPs decisions.

Guess which Dev I am!

I love the guy who said it was ok that Valve and Epic use tried and tested engines for their games but CCP can't because they aren't awesome. Eff you! CCP is awesome because they make the best MMO on the planet. If a game can hook ME for 6 years it must be awesome. Good work CCP.

---

Originally by: Wacktopia

---

Whether charging like this will wash with console gamers is another question. I guess console gamers pay for subs like xBox live so it's conceivable they will go for some form of MT too.

---

Originally by: Nor Tzestu

---

Lets not beat around the bush here shall we? Name me a LEGIT AAA grade shooter using a 10 year old engine. Please. And spare me the Gears of War crap, anyone who has played that POS knows exactly it is neither a AAA game nor good.

---