Hurricane: 720mm 2 TEs, 2 Gyros

RF PP = 426 dps (19 + 36km total: 55km) instant alpha: 3744
Tremor 247dps (70+36km total: 106km) instant alpha: 2170


Harbinger: HB Laser II, 2 TE, 2 Heats Sinks
IN MF = 468dps (19+16km total: 35km) instant alpha: 1664
Aurora = 271dps (70+16km) instant alpha: 953


Brutix: 250mm Rails, 2 MFS, 2 TEs
CN Antimatter = 444 dps (23km + 25km, total: 48km) instant alpha: 1657
Spike = 257dps (84+25km total: 109km) instant alpha: 961


Drake: HMs, 2 BCU
CN Scourge = 368 dps, 84km missile travel distance, Delayed Volley: 2474

NOTES:
1. The Drake damage is delayed while the others hit instantly
2. While the total maximum missile travel distance is theorestically 84km, this is NOT the range at which the missile will strike as it does not take into account either acceleration or the motions of the two ships relative to one another.
3. All damage numbers are ideal. HM damage is reduced by target size and velocity. Missiles are also incapable of "critical hits"

---

Looking at the numbers in this more realistic way it is clear that the problem with HMs -- if it exists at all -- is hardly as severe as some would suggest. The weapons, like the ships themselves, are relatively comparable to one another. They may be the most balanced class of ships (and weapons) in the game.

If we are going to compare the ships more completely we would need to look beyond HMs to do so. We would need to consider their resistances and tanks, fitting requirements, speed and agility, combat parameters, training time, ease of use, drone bays, utility slots, added capabilities such as EWAR, and what not.

When taken as a whole an argument could easily be made that ANY of these ships is superior to the others under the correct situation. The Drake excels in some areas and falls behind in others, and the same applies to all of them. The Drake does, however, offer a relatively inexpensive and easy to train for platform that makes fleet operations simple to control.

This is not the problem CCP wishes to correct. The problem is this:

A drake swarm of 100 ships encounters an enemy drake swarm of 100 ships. Combined the two fleets will begin spewing out an additional 1400 individual server tracked objects every 6 seconds, and often the second salvo will be in flight before the first hits. This is an incredible load on the servers, and one that the servers DO NOT HAVE when the ships are "firing" direct fire weapons.

Now imagine the same scenario, but up the ante to the blob sizes we see in some fleets today.

By shortening the range and increasing the speed CCP can reduce this server load by getting more missiles off the field faster. But better still (for them) is if they can essentially break the Drake and HMs and have them replaced by something less demanding. This is a win win for them, and in some respects for all of us.

Here is MY PERSONAL feedback:
Two accounts cancelled - You lost a more than 4 years paying customer!

In addition to the missile nerf CCP will also bring an AI boost for NPC's in missions. These NPC's will switch targets. At the first look it seems to be a good idea. At the second look it is a typical darft idea from CCP. Mission "Buzz Kill" and "Stop The Thief" are just two of more missions where every pilot will have problems with his drones. (ELITE) Frigs are at 65km+ at the beginning, you start your drones but they will be destroyed before they reach the enemy frigate. If you call back your drones they are to far away to reach your ship befor they are destroyed. What have we than? A scrambled ship without drones and less damage with missiles or more damage with the stupid TE+TC but horrible less tank. Good job CCP.

As Caldari pilot I end my career in New Eden.
From a RP point I could say I grab my ISK buy me a planet or at least a little moon somewhere and can live like a god for the rest of my life.
From a RL point I MUST SAY, that CCP do never think about changes and their consequences. And ever ask the wrong people who do not have skilled what they intent to nerf next.

Bye folks. It was a pleasure for me to be part of this community for 4.5 years. But now it is time to travel on.
O7

P.S.: No! You can not have my stuff. Remember? I want to buy me a planet or a little moon.

Shouldn't the HML damage be a straight line? I'm not getting why you get the dip at the end. SO to be the race "specialising" in long range combat Caldari need to go to rails? yuck

I have numbered each of your statements I want to comment to.

2) 720mm arty II with tremor rounds reaches 77km. That's without any modules.
A drake can hit 84.4km with navy without factoring acceleration, which puts it around 79km.

No where in there did I say it did max damage at 77km, nor did I even say it was effective.

I mearly stated that it reaches 77km.

You have to be careful before casually accepting someone elses numbers in this thread.

The 720 arty cane, with 2 gyros and 2 TEs in the lows, will do 291 dps (heated) with a 70km optimal (+ 36km falloff) firing Tremor. The reason his numbers are different is that he accidentally left off the TEs. You see these same accidents with a lot of the numbers people are throwing around.

You forget that alpha is very important especially for fleet fights.
Only some days ago I saw some arty Canes alpha an Omen cruiser.
And what you forget: How helpless drakes are against frigs. I doubt there is another bc with exception of a rail ferox that is so helpless against frigs. AC Cane has so good tracking that it eats frigs alive, Arty Cane has only little bigger drone bay but arty alpha strike (which alphas probably more than 50% of most frigs and even destroyers) plus mostly neuts or light missiles to get frigs down. Drake is really helpless against faster frigs when drones are eaten. Almost no other bc has these problems.

Rofl.
I have flown drake almost 4 months with another char. HM against faster frigs is almost useless.
Even precision missiles. And it was a relatively high skilled char.
Sorry but if someone trolls then it is you.
Ever tried to get under a canes guns? Well try it. Slicers are blown mostly with one alpha. Something a Drake can only dream of.
And inbetween: Drake vs Cane was always the same: At higher ranges cane simply gets away because of higher speed. And at close range I died because I hadn-¦t any invu fields any more because of neuts.

You continue to post bull$#@ numbers. The cane is not running around without TE's. Neither are these other ships.

A fairly typical nano arty cane:

MWD
Disruptor
LSE x2

DCU
TE x2
Gyro x2
Nano

A fairly typical nano HM drake:

MWD
Disruptor
Web x2
LSE x2

Nano x2
BCU x2

Obviously people mix and match to taste. Comparing these two, and assuming both are rigged for tank, the Drake has about a 5k ehp advantage in tank, about a 30% advantage in dps at range, and loses about 300m/sec. I have NEVER said that the Drake does not do more damage at range. What I have said, repreatedly, is that it probably SHOULD do more damage at range as this is it's job. If the Drake lands at range there is no way an unsupported Cane can close the range and kill it before it dies in a fire. That's okay because the Drake has no way to stop that cane from leaving.

Knowing this, why then do you suppose that you can go into virtually any low sec system in the game and see PvP pilots who can choose to fly anything they like, choosing the Cane over the Drake?

The answer for most is probably SPEED, AGILITY, and instant damage application. In Eve, speed is LIFE. You cannot overestimate it's importance. Speed alone might not save your butt, but the lack of it ensures that your enemy has control over your fate. And when you start adding in things like implants and T3 boosts, the difference between the cane and the drake becomes pretty significant.

I would argue that the BC class is perhaps the most balanced class of ships in the game. It's not perfect, but nothing is. I don't have a problem with CCP deciding that HMs and Drakes do not fit their vision for how the game should be played. That's their call, I don't fly Drakes anyway, so for me personally it doesn't much matter. BUT, when I think about how screwed Caldari Missile pilots have been for years, and now CCP is talking about screwing them some more, I get irritated -- particularly when the reasons they are offering are complete BS.

I am the arty cane pilot that is supposedly getting picked on by those big mean Drake bullies. I am the guy that is supposedly at some mythical disadvantage. Yet I can fly either ship, I have T2 HMs and T2 arties, and I thing the Cane is the better boat most of the time. The Drake has it's uses, it's perfect for some things and sub-optimal for others. And in my opinion that's just how it should be.

Out of curiosity what exactly are you guys hoping you'd see from a BC balance pass that would change your opinion of this missile proposal?

Good argument. Because of the fact that the Drake ist the most KILLED or DESTROYED ship we need a hard nerf of this ship.
Sure.. a lot of people fly this ship.. but there are a lot of players without any knowledge of how to do this.

I really need a Dislike button in this forum.

Request about different ammo types at different ranges

Their current destroyer is pretty much crap.

None of their cruisers are worth flying and this will only get worse with this update.

They don't have a working HAC.

Their BS's are garbage.

Right now, they have tough, slow, low DPS frigates,