| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 63 post(s) |
Smabs
Higher Than Everest
BricK sQuAD.
57
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Posted - 2012.09.19 06:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
Changing heavy missiles seems like the wrong way to go.
The drake's problem is that it does everything well. It's got a good tank, is cheap, easy to train, does PVE pretty well, has good range and good utility with all the midslots. Before tier 3 battlecruisers it was clearly too strong as a mid to long range damage dealer. I'd argue that the tier 3 battlecruisers fixed a lot of these problems, but I guess some people don't agree.
The 100mn ab tengu is overpowered mostly because of the accelerated ejection bay and fuel catalyst in combination with huge amounts of fitting.
The best thing to do would be to pull a midslot off the drake or change the resist bonus, and to adjust two subsystems on the tengu.
I don't know why people feel the need to take a sledgehammer approach to a problem that really only involves 2 ships. |
Smabs
Higher Than Everest
BricK sQuAD.
57
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 06:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Quote:And just to repeat what has been said numerous time, and has been long known to all but dreaktards- HMLs have high dps compared to other medium LR weapons, better range and damage application, which is why they get rebalanced to be in line with the others.
To be honest medium rails and beams are in desperate need of a buff. |
Smabs
Higher Than Everest
BricK sQuAD.
60
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 10:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Quote:The HML caracal is going to be in much better shape when this hits
Not really. The extra slots get cancelled out by the missile nerf. Plus, you know, T1 cruisers.
Still wondering why the don't just change the resist bonus/slot layout on the drake and balance the accelerated ejection/fuel catalyst on the tengu. I mean instead of changing all heavy missiles. Wouldn't that make more sense? |
Smabs
Higher Than Everest
BricK sQuAD.
60
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 10:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bringing into line in this case means 'make useless'. You never see rail feroxes or brutixes, beam harbingers or eagles at all for a good reason. The intended effect might be to encourage people into using the other LR medium guns, but in reality people will just switch to tier 3 battlecruisers (and maybe arty canes). |
Smabs
Higher Than Everest
BricK sQuAD.
60
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 10:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Quote:You dont see them because the drake outclasses them with heavy missiles.
The intended effect might be to encourage people into using the other LR medium guns, but in reality people will just switch to tier 3 battlecruisers (and maybe arty canes). |
Smabs
Higher Than Everest
BricK sQuAD.
60
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 10:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Quote:teir 3 BCs have a soft underbelly that can be exploited by fast cruisers and arty canes high alpha produce a similar DPS to the other long range weapons so its not like the are going to be sitting on a throne made from melted down railboats on a hill of drake skulls.
Not all that soft, nados in particular. The tracking is good enough that a gang of 3 nados/talos should easily beat a greater number of cruisers or even hacs.
Nobody will use medium rail ships. |
Smabs
Higher Than Everest
BricK sQuAD.
61
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 10:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Quote:Each of them do the same job differently and are all viable.
Medium beams and rails are truly awe inspiring weapons. Let me tell you how I don't think it's hilarious when I come across a rail brutix. |
Smabs
Higher Than Everest
BricK sQuAD.
61
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 11:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Don't think that's going to change anything. Well, as far as a rail brutix goes. Blaster ones should be really good if they buff them. |
Smabs
Higher Than Everest
BricK sQuAD.
61
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 11:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
Quote:Thats about the same as the other med long range weapons get with long range ammo.
I'm picturing fitting a beam harbinger and trying to hit stuff with 0.012 tracking (with 2 te) for a huge 270dps. It's really sad. |
Smabs
Higher Than Everest
BricK sQuAD.
62
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 12:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
When did arty canes have zero tank? |
Smabs
Higher Than Everest
BricK sQuAD.
63
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 16:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
Quote:I already use rails over blasters in many situations.
Medium rails? Because then you're either trolling or the worst pvp player in Eve. |
Smabs
Higher Than Everest
BricK sQuAD.
67
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 09:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
I really hate comparing heavy missiles to other medium LR guns. The players definitely won't care about what stuff is supposed to do and will just use the most powerful or versatile thing at the time. In day-to-day gangs it's probably going to be short range guns on tier 3 battlecruisers and medium arty because of its high alpha.
Barely anyone is going to use beams or rails even with the changes. |
Smabs
Higher Than Everest
BricK sQuAD.
70
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 02:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Quote:certain ships being straightjacketed into only fitting a single weapon system out of the multiple alternatives they might otherwise be able to use.
This is the thing. I keep hearing about bringing heavies down to the level of beams or rails. But who uses beams or rails, really? You would need to buff the LR medium guns to be competitive with tier 3 battlecruisers using short range guns. As it stands now people will just switch over to tornados/talos or arty canes if they want some range and mobility - at least in smaller gangs.
I'm also a bit worried that the drake will become fairly mediocre in smaller gangs, but still really strong in fleets. I'm not sure how much of an effect the tracking mods will have on drakes against ahacs, for example. |
Smabs
Higher Than Everest
BricK sQuAD.
70
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 08:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
Quote:I have used medium beams before on a zealot in order to kite and snipe targets out of a much larger fleet while a super pro Ares pilot with a faction point held them on field and the beams were wonderful. There is nothing wrong with them so much as the situations where they are best rarely arise. In short there is no need for a halfway at which to meet.
Was this before tier 3 battlecruisers? I'm thinking that these days you could do a better job with an oracle using megapulse+scorch.
Medium beams have a very limited use in zealot ahac fleets, but otherwise I can't really think of where any medium beam platform would be desirable. |
Smabs
Higher Than Everest
BricK sQuAD.
70
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 08:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
Beams are a weapon that's so niche that it can only be used in one specific fleet (and even then pulse is more standard on ahac zealots). It's outclassed in every other scenario by an oracle or pulse harbinger. That sounds pretty bad to me. Saying that, medium beams are still better than medium rails, which have pretty much zero use. |
Smabs
Higher Than Everest
BricK sQuAD.
70
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 08:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
Quote:If CCP decides to look at these weapons in the future and I hope they do, any changes they make should keep HMLs in line with them, but for now we're getting off topic and in any case as things are currently HMLs still vastly outperform all of the above.
Medium beams would either need tracking or damage.
The problem I have with the HML nerf is that people treat them as if they exist in some sort of a vacuum, where only medium guns exist. Nerfing them won't have the desired effect of increasing the number of ships used. Instead it'll just remove one more option.
I don't actually think balance is too bad right now. You see all kinds of viable ships from all races being used. I'd really prefer that they give medium LR guns a small buff and HML's maybe a 5-10% damage nerf and see how things go, instead of slamming a weapon system with a massive hammer. |
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