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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 63 post(s) |
Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
3
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 00:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
How will this effect missioning and running plexes? The 20% nerf to damage can mean the difference between being able to break the tank on a commander or not. (I know because I've experienced it in a DED 6/10 in a tengu)
Any thought went into the rest of the effects other than just the Drake mass fleets in null? |
Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 13:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Kmelx wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Its the missiles causing the problems.
Which is nonsense, my two 100MNAB PVP Tengus (active and a passive tanked one) with lvl 5 sub skills and fours or fives in most missile skills, do about 400dps with faction launchers and BCUs, these are ships that I've spent billions of ISK on. On there own Tengus are overpowered because of the tanks that you can achieve on them and the fact that the prop mod allows you to achieve high speeds without a corresponding sig radius increase, so you can run away from anyone you can't fight most of the time, not because of the dps output which is frankly underwhelming. Lowering damage on these ships would take them to something like 320dps with faction fittings and decent skills, it makes one of the most popular ships in the game untenable in PVP and PVE. You currently get 800+ DPS out of a ratting tengu and the standard tengufleet fit get over 500 DPS. What on earth are you doing to yours?
With 3 navy bcu and the full rack of t2 hmls I get nowhere near 800dps. Where on earth are you pulling these numbers from? Not everyone is running around with 3bil tengus. |
Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 13:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Signal11th wrote:Soko99 wrote:baltec1 wrote:Kmelx wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Its the missiles causing the problems.
Which is nonsense, my two 100MNAB PVP Tengus (active and a passive tanked one) with lvl 5 sub skills and fours or fives in most missile skills, do about 400dps with faction launchers and BCUs, these are ships that I've spent billions of ISK on. On there own Tengus are overpowered because of the tanks that you can achieve on them and the fact that the prop mod allows you to achieve high speeds without a corresponding sig radius increase, so you can run away from anyone you can't fight most of the time, not because of the dps output which is frankly underwhelming. Lowering damage on these ships would take them to something like 320dps with faction fittings and decent skills, it makes one of the most popular ships in the game untenable in PVP and PVE. You currently get 800+ DPS out of a ratting tengu and the standard tengufleet fit get over 500 DPS. What on earth are you doing to yours? With 3 navy bcu and the full rack of t2 hmls I get nowhere near 800dps. Where on earth are you pulling these numbers from? Not everyone is running around with 3bil tengus. With mine I get 730ish dps but that is with near perfect skills and a 4x CN BCU's obvously not overloaded which takes it upto around 800dps but it did cost ALOT to get it to those specs. and I get around 620dps with a T2 fit.
So CCP thinks we are all running around with perfect skills. I see.. |
Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 14:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Will the TE/TC/TD changes affect unguided missiles like HAMs and Torps?The plan is for them to affect all missiles, yes.
How about remote tracking links?It's possible that we may need to give remote tracking links slightly lower effects to missiles than to guns, but yes the plan is for them to have an effect.
Why are you expanding Tracking Disruptors instead of fixing defenders?We had been working on fixing defenders, but the issue was that they caused a very high amount of lag between their own CPU load and the changes in behavior they would cause.
This change will make Tracking Disruptors very overpowered!That is a very valid concern and one we will be continuing to look very closely at. Some options on the table include making TDs
I am still somewhat confused. Currently, I can TD a gun ship and it can still get a lucky shot off and actually hit me. How would that work for missiles? Are missiles now going to be able to MISS? Also, why would a tracking enhancer, and a tracking computer effect the range of a weapon that's supposedly determined by flight time and speed. (Skills that you train).
Also, turret guns, can adjust their range a little bit. You can take an arty or an A/C and still control your damage out put at different ranges by the ammo you use. Missiles don't have that. Sure you can control your ammo type, but in very very very rare circumstances is that worth doing over the bonus your hull gets to the specific type. On top of that if they're outside of your range, you don't hit. Whereas, turrets get falloff which technically still gives them a chance to do damage OUTSIDE their range, (JUST EXTREMELY SLIM chance). So are we going to get different ranged missiles too?
I can understand that the HMLs may have been too powerful. However, I'm not a veteran pilot, my tengu with HMLs puts out about 350dps up to 110k. (locking range) with 3 navy BCU's. I swapped the stuff out to HAMS. (and other than the fact that I can't even fit a full rack of the t2 HAMS due to PG) Sure I now get an extra 100DPS. but my range is now down to 26km. ON top of that, with the reduction in the HML, a DED 6/10 complex boss, can even outtank my DPS output. (as I have experienced it where I only had 5 launchers on and the thing kept regenning due to the reloading time. While having 6 launchers it burned down albeit slow). Or is the intention to make the exploration tengu's and drakes all use HAMs. instead now. Since your damage with the HMLs will be laughable. |
Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 14:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
MIrple wrote:Arduemont wrote:Alot of people here seem to be justifying the Heavy Missile nerf by saying "They need it drastically, look how OP Drakes and Tengus are", which is stupidity. Drakes are a little OP, more in blobs than in any other format.
So address drakes as an issue, dont break the entire missile boat Caldari line. Nighthawks, Cerberus, Caracal, just three useless ships that are about to become even more useless. If you really have to nerf drakes, then nerf them directly, don't ruin all the other heavy missile platforms. The missiles are fine as they are, in fact I would go so far as to say Heavy Missiles are about perfect, and HAMs need a buff.
CCP, your really not doing yourself any favours nerfing HMs. I could probably get behind a small nerf. The range nerf on its own would be worth some debate, but the 20% damage reduction is lunacy. What happened to rolling out changes "slowly" so that they can be tested and to make sure there are no big reaction? Its been working so far, why stop now?
Somebody wasn't thinking when this nerf was added to the to-do list. Gypsio III wrote: Current dual-BCS Caracal: 263 DPS kinetic, 210 non-kinetic, with CN to 120 km, 8.4 km/s missiles. Future triple-BCS Caracal: 252 DPS all damage types with CN to 90 km, 9 km/s missiles. I'm glad to see the Caracal surviving the deserved HML Drake/Tengu nerf fine. Hams + TE/TC's man.. Thats the way to go! So how is this a massive nerf to the Caracal?
Are you on drugs man? So how is loosing 10dps PLUS 1/4 of your range WHILE using an extra BCU not significant??
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Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 14:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
MIrple wrote:Soko99 wrote:MIrple wrote:Arduemont wrote:Alot of people here seem to be justifying the Heavy Missile nerf by saying "They need it drastically, look how OP Drakes and Tengus are", which is stupidity. Drakes are a little OP, more in blobs than in any other format.
So address drakes as an issue, dont break the entire missile boat Caldari line. Nighthawks, Cerberus, Caracal, just three useless ships that are about to become even more useless. If you really have to nerf drakes, then nerf them directly, don't ruin all the other heavy missile platforms. The missiles are fine as they are, in fact I would go so far as to say Heavy Missiles are about perfect, and HAMs need a buff.
CCP, your really not doing yourself any favours nerfing HMs. I could probably get behind a small nerf. The range nerf on its own would be worth some debate, but the 20% damage reduction is lunacy. What happened to rolling out changes "slowly" so that they can be tested and to make sure there are no big reaction? Its been working so far, why stop now?
Somebody wasn't thinking when this nerf was added to the to-do list. Gypsio III wrote: Current dual-BCS Caracal: 263 DPS kinetic, 210 non-kinetic, with CN to 120 km, 8.4 km/s missiles.Future triple-BCS Caracal: 252 DPS all damage types with CN to 90 km, 9 km/s missiles. I'm glad to see the Caracal surviving the deserved HML Drake/Tengu nerf fine. Hams + TE/TC's man.. Thats the way to go! So how is this a massive nerf to the Caracal? Are you on drugs man? So how is loosing 10dps PLUS 1/4 of your range WHILE using an extra BCU not significant?? Show me any other t1 cruiser that can apply ~250 DPS at 60k + ranges in every damage type Also you get more damage in non kinetic missiles how is this bad?
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Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 15:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Daniel Plain wrote: here's a groundbreaking idea: how about we make the underpowered weapon systems viable instead? Or we can solve a huge number of issues in a single change.
by eliminating the only decent weapons system that Caldari have.. I see..
So are we going to get bigger drone bays to help augment the DPS of the hybrids like gallente do? |
Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 15:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
AlexHalstead wrote:Good lords, 72 pages already? Can anyone summarize arguments from those who brought up the point that the TD changes seem to make the armarr EW ships a natural counter to the Caldari missile boats (and minmatar ships that use missiles to a lesser extent)?
Shouldn't the way it works be that Amarr counter Minnie and Gallente vs Caldari? Seeming that those are the races that supposed to be at war with each other? |
Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 15:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Signal11th wrote:baltec1 wrote:Daniel Plain wrote: here's a groundbreaking idea: how about we make the underpowered weapon systems viable instead? Or we can solve a huge number of issues in a single change. By nerfing the two ships perhaps? I think it's possible then much of the furore will dissapate. Still have the problem of HML being so much better than the rest.
than how come nobody uses drakes and tengus in incursions? Why is it that no other Caldari boat is flown during PVP other than drake and tengu? If the missile system was the problem, you'd see other ships being used as well. but you don't.
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Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 15:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Soko99 wrote:baltec1 wrote:Daniel Plain wrote: here's a groundbreaking idea: how about we make the underpowered weapon systems viable instead? Or we can solve a huge number of issues in a single change. by eliminating the only decent weapons system that Caldari have.. I see.. So are we going to get bigger drone bays to help augment the DPS of the hybrids like gallente do? As a gal pilot, I can safely say we rarely launch drones in railboats. Given that not only do we shoot past drone range a lot of the time but that drones seldom reach the target in time to matter when they are in range.
railboats have a higher alpha than missile boats.. and short range blaster does more DPS.. |
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Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 16:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Soko99 wrote:and short range blaster does more DPS.. That has something to do with long range weapon balance because?
because the reason for part of the nerf is because people were not using the HAMS as much.. (I believe it's the first CSM reply in this threadnaught) |
Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 16:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Smabs wrote:Quote:I already use rails over blasters in many situations. Medium rails? Because then you're either trolling or the worst pvp player in Eve. Small med and large. You see, unlike you, I figure out how to use these things rather than spend all my time chasing the FOTM or bad posting on the forums flapping over an OP weapon system getting nerfed into line with everything else. I am already working out the best way to make a HML caracal work for me. You have been given the numbers that show HML will still be a viable weapon after the changes. No doubt when this change hits you will be on the forums decrying the end of EVE while the rest of us are adapting.
How do you fit your HML caracal? since with all 5s you have not enough PG/CPU???? |
Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 16:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Soko99 wrote:
How do you fit your HML caracal? since with all 5s you have not enough PG/CPU????
Behold the new Caracal Caracal: Cruiser skill bonuses: 5% bonus Rapid Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Launcher rate of fire 10% bonus to Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Velocity Slot layout: 5 H, 5 M, 4 L (+2), 2 turrets, 5 launchers Fittings: 630 PWG (+100), 430 CPU (+80) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1700(+137) / 1200(+145) / 1500(+171) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1250(+187.5) / 445s(+63.75s) / 2.8 (+0.02) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 225(+47) / 0.425 / 12910000 / 5.1s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10 / 10 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 57.5km / 270(+28) / 6 Sensor strength: 16 Gravimetric (+1) Signature radius: 135 (-10) Cargo capacity: 450
Ahh.. soyou're talking about your FUTURE caracal. Cause your posts made it seem like you were talking about one in the game already..
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Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 16:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Bloutok wrote:
If it's not beatable why is the HML drake the one that is mostly used ?
Edit: or are you suggesting that the HML is even more unbeatable ?
Because the way it is now its does battleship damage at battleship ranges with close to a battleship tank......all while having the maneuverability and align time of a battle-cruiser.
That's just wrong. Drake does not do BS damage, and it has the same tank as most other BC's. If you're referring to tengu's once again it's false since it also doesn't have BS tank. The reason it "tanks" so well is not because of the EHP but because of the speed tanking. It gets webbed down/neuted and it's screwed faster than a BC.
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Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 16:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Soko99 wrote:
That's just wrong. Drake does not do BS damage, and it has the same tank as most other BC's. If you're referring to tengu's once again it's false since it also doesn't have BS tank. The reason it "tanks" so well is not because of the EHP but because of the speed tanking. It gets webbed down/neuted and it's screwed faster than a BC.
The drake does low end BS damge but its tank is firmly inside BS class.
How is that? without boosts etc? My navy scorp I can get to 120Kehp, my raven had close to 90. My drake has like 70-80.. Are the rest of the caldari BS that tanky or are the rest of the races BS that crap? My alts cane can get about 60k ehp on her cane? (sorry haven't flown the other BS's so can't compare) |
Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 17:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:baltec1 wrote:PetersmithII wrote:i have two question if ccp can answer do it please 1, if heavy missiles are so uber why is cerberus so ussles ?
Its a bad ship and has been for some time now. The problem with the Cerberus is why fly a 200m ISK drake? And why care about a range bonus when you can already reach 80km? CerberusCaldari Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Kinetic Missile damage and 10% bonus to Missile velocity per level Heavy Assault Ship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Assault Missile and Heavy Missile flight time and 5% bonus to Missile Launcher rate of fire per level Drake Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% shield resistance and 5% bonus kinetic damage of heavy missiles and assault missiles per level Drake resistance bonus balances out with the fact that Cerberus has HALF (50%) of shield EHP of the drake. You get more damage bonuses with the cerberus but... only 5 hardpoints versus 7, so your rate of fire bonus gets you from having 5 launchers... to 7 launchers, like a drake. So on. Why fly a 200m ISK Drake?
^^^ This.
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Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 17:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sophia Ban'ki wrote:Well, even if I expect noone from CCP to read this, I want to point out, that there are also a few other things to be nerved if missiles are supposed to be turrets.
Surgical Strike (rank 4) 3% damage bonus on all turrets per level Not just that the missile counterpart gives only 2% damage bonus per level it is also a rank 5 skill, meaning that it takes even longer to train.
Solution: Nerv/Adjust: the Surgical Strike skill to 2% bonus and make it a rank 5 skill as well.
Rapid Firing: 4% RoF per level Same again, Rapid Launch is one again lower with 3% RoF bonus.
Solution: Nerv / Adjust Rapid Firing bonus to 3% RoF, to make them more eqal.
Missile Projection: (rank 4 - skill) Bonus to all guided missiles, leaving unguided missiles unaffected. Related Gunnery skills would be Motion Prediction, if we look at the planned TD changes. Motion Prediction is just a rank 2 skill and it affects all turrets.
Solution: Nerv Motion Prediction, so that it no longer affects short range weapons (as unguided missiles are all considered short range) and rank 4 or adjust Missile Projection to affect all missiles.
Requirements for T2 need to be changed as well, T2 medium turrets require more skills than Heavy Missiles. You should make sure that it also requires T2 Light Missiles in order to use T2 Heavy Missiles, otherwise it wouldn't be fair, would it?
Disclaimer: This post might contain traces of irony and sarcasm.
So since the missiles will ACT like the turrets.. can we get our skills to act like the turret counterparts too? |
Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 04:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
Will HAMS have their fitting requirements reduced? As it stands, a Tengu pilot. (without AWU to 5 or a PG implant) can't even fit a full rack of T2 HAMS and an AB. (which is then a requirement so you can move into range of your enemy to apply that DPS).
Or is the answer simply to.. Train AWU5.. because then I'd like to see how many other weapons systems requires that to be able to fit to the other t3s. |
Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 11:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
Quote:
Call me when you have to train 18 differnt turrets to T2 and you can't bypass the small Crap you don't need, and you need.
Even with support skills filled out, its 45 days to train a large T2 turret.
Takes two weeks for any missile system.....and you have one more support skill.
Which is offset by your support skills being only usefully for missiles as opposed to all turrets. Plus you get less rof, damage, bonus and the support skills take longer to train.
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Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
8
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 19:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
Rose Honey wrote:TriadSte wrote: You are having a late April fools joke yes?
So in that respect I'm going to lose :
106 DPS 4.5 Seconds of flight time that's a loss of 37km with current figures.
Are you going crazy over there in Iceland or what? What in gods name got into your thick skulls about reducing heavy missile damage?
Theyre not exactly awesome DPS as they are. What was the thought process for making medicore DPS.....worse?
Because Heavy Missile are a Long Range low DPS system that do too much dps and make Hams pointless. Because you can regain all the range and some by using a Tracking Computer. Because heavy missile drakes and tengus do too many things too well at once. Because they can Because 101 pages of easy bake drake/tengu l4 pilots ***** is funny reading. FYI Ham Tengu can already get 39km range with Rage Missiles and the right rigs, doing 734dps with the right implants and T2 fit. 544dps and 65km with Javs. All this before the change which will only increase hams to stupid levels on a tengu. So instead of bemoaning your loss of dps in Heavy Missiles. Just get yourself T2 Hams and carry on orbiting at 70km doing 544dps. or orbit at 28km and do 734. Just incase someone asks. [Tengu, New Setup 1] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Tracking Enhancer II*
Medium Shield Booster II 10MN Afterburner II Target Painter II EM Ward Amplifier II EM Ward Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
*Ranges given were before the TE change take effect. So add 30% range I guess. Not entirely sure how much you'll get but it'll be stupid no doubt. Also Inb4 duel TC Mantis.
Interesting.. Except plugging that into EFT and you get a range of 65.6k so orbiting at 70 will not hit a damn thing. Also your DPS is 458 not 544 like you said. It does go up to 650dps with rage at 39k. (still less than you claim) Oh and that's with an all 5 character.
Or are you saying that all the pilots should now have to spend another half a billion for the t2 rigs plus the new implants they will now need to be able to put out the DPS they used to before.. Cause in that case.. Feel free to send me the iskies. along with everyone else that's going to need them.
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Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
8
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 19:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
TriadSte wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:Terik Deatharbingr wrote:4 BCS, 6 Launchers with Scourge Fury....added a tech 1 loading accel rig and warhead cat rig, and turned of include reload time...still only getting 686....EFT v 2.16... [Tengu, Tengu fit] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Medium Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II EM Ward Field II Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile [Empty High slot] Medium Bay Loading Accelerator II Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst Odd: Just did this also, same EFT version I get 761 DPS 2739 volley. Heat takes it upto 896 This is without implants...
ODD indeed.. My All level 5: gets 712dps but same volley.. |
Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
8
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 19:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
Rose Honey wrote:
FYI Ham Tengu can already get 39km range with Rage Missiles and the right rigs, doing 734dps with the right implants and T2 fit. 544dps and 65km with Javs. All this before the change which will only increase hams to stupid levels on a tengu.
Ranges are before TE will add more on, Pretty sure I said that not once, BUT TWICE. And T2 Rigs are cheap and as for plus 5 implants. I guess you've never heard of Fw cash out dumps and low ball buy orders being filled at 60% normal value. Thats okay, You get what you pay for.
The added range still doesn't explain your extra 100 DPS in both scenarios. Not to mention how many all level 5 characters are there..
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Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
8
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 20:02:00 -
[23] - Quote
Rose Honey wrote:Soko99 wrote:Rose Honey wrote:
FYI Ham Tengu can already get 39km range with Rage Missiles and the right rigs, doing 734dps with the right implants and T2 fit. 544dps and 65km with Javs. All this before the change which will only increase hams to stupid levels on a tengu.
Ranges are before TE will add more on, Pretty sure I said that not once, BUT TWICE. And T2 Rigs are cheap and as for plus 5 implants. I guess you've never heard of Fw cash out dumps and low ball buy orders being filled at 60% normal value. Thats okay, You get what you pay for.
The added range still doesn't explain your extra 100 DPS in both scenarios. Not to mention how many all level 5 characters are there.. Plus 5 Implants. Which if you don't wanna spend money on that's your choice. However given mission toon, why wouldn't you. Like a said, FW cashout days implant prices tank like ****. Edit, my mission toons are all L5. Its the only thing they do. Why wouldn't they be. What else would I train on them? I mean really.
Some of us don't live in HS.. so running around with +5 implants isn't a very smart thing to do in null, where if you're killed you're also pretty much guaranteed to be podded too.. |
Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
9
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 21:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
Rose Honey wrote:
Personally I always use a clean clone in null, but Given I was talking about L4s from the start. I assumed anyone replying would also be talking about L4s. High sec ones, cause well its were most of them are.
Makes sense.. except the nerf will not just effect HS missioning tengus.. |
Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
9
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 22:10:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Link to OP : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155029Because a lot of people here really need to read it before posting. Infact, these changes are a BUFF to short range missiles, grace to TE/TC. TD will certainly become more common, but you can counter then with TC/TE, and with TP in some way, all modules much more useful in any situation than ECCM. Eventually, TD will be nerfed if they need to. HML are nerfed, but they really needed to : they are currently better than cruise missiles ! They are better than any medium long range weapon and the drake even compete with close range brawlers ! And yet, with the TE/TC buff, dammage application will be greater : dps nerf, considering this, is not always 20%. And I don't even talk about the insane T2 ammo buff missiles needed. PS : TC are MED slot, not competing with damage or speed modules but with tank modules for shield tankers. Think to this.
You can only call something a buff if it doesn't require you to give up things to be able to get the it. So youre choices will be give up the BCU's for the TEs or give up tank or mobility for TCs and the script. Not exactly helpful for caldari ships that are pretty slow. |
Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
9
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 22:12:00 -
[26] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:You guys are impossible. All you care about is your precious 'do everything' Drake.
ROFL. NIce troll.. |
Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
9
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 22:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
Doddy wrote:Max Devious wrote:I just have one small comment here. This change in missile range may see it's most profound effect on small Wormhole corps. Many sites that can now be completed by a solo Tengu will become impossible to complete solo due to the inablilty to kite the neuts at range. The solution is to spyder tank with energy transfers, but many small corps don't have enough people online at the same time to do much of this, and some of these corps will be forced out of Wspace.
Max. Seems like a good thing tbh, whs are not meant to be solo paradises ....
It's not.. but just like you can run an L4 solo.. You should be able to run certain sites in a WH solo.
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Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
9
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Posted - 2012.09.21 02:05:00 -
[28] - Quote
Doddy wrote:Soko99 wrote:Doddy wrote:Max Devious wrote:I just have one small comment here. This change in missile range may see it's most profound effect on small Wormhole corps. Many sites that can now be completed by a solo Tengu will become impossible to complete solo due to the inablilty to kite the neuts at range. The solution is to spyder tank with energy transfers, but many small corps don't have enough people online at the same time to do much of this, and some of these corps will be forced out of Wspace.
Max. Seems like a good thing tbh, whs are not meant to be solo paradises .... It's not.. but just like you can run an L4 solo.. You should be able to run certain sites in a WH solo. You mean in C3 plus that ccp designed to be multiplayer like lvl 5s? cos C1 and C2 you sure don't need a tengu for.
Sure.. if you want to spend 4 times longer doing them with no guarantee of a payout. |
Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
9
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Posted - 2012.09.21 02:37:00 -
[29] - Quote
Doddy wrote:Soko99 wrote: Sure.. if you want to spend 4 times longer doing them with no guarantee of a payout.
How can you even think that is an argument? They shouldn't be nerfed because they make way more isk than anything else? I'm quite sure machs running incursions make way more. And the argument was a counter saying they aren't needed for c2s. And I'm saying they are if you don't want to spend crazy long time running them while vulnerable to anything since you have know warning other than dscan.
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Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
9
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Posted - 2012.09.21 12:13:00 -
[30] - Quote
Signal11th wrote:HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:My most important comment to make on the subject is.
CCP...
PLEASE, for the love of Marauders!!!
Wait until you've buffed the rest of the missile boats before you go nerfing the only two effective ships we have!!!
(DISCLAIMER: I don't care about the troll posts of other players who claim that many other missile boats are effective in pvp when we all know they're little more than bait, extra dps, or just there to drop a bomb and then become a bonus if they stay alive because this doesn't make them effective) The Drake and Tengu will still be good, maybe even holding onto the "Go Drake/Tengu or go home!" title they have now. It could be worse, it could be Gallente. Yeah, but my concern is pve really. Right now the tengu is the most efficient missile boat in pve. This IS in part due to the OP nature of the tengu, however, the tengu is outperformed by t1 and t2 bs' without missile specialization in pve. So, this is to say that the rest of the missile boats capable of lvl 4 missions are quite lack luster. I'm willing to lose my tengu as my mission boat, however, I'd like to get a missile boat bs that is as capable as the current tengu before this nerf bat hits. CNR/Golem? Used both and the Tengu, Both are better at certain missions than the other. Not sure about the golem but cnr tank is crap compared to tengu, you are screwed if your drones are dead and your speed is so slow that you'll spend more time moving from gate to gate than shooting stuff. |
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