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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
340
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 13:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Assuming 3 hours of game play in a day, what level of t2 fitted t1 hulls do you feel the following hi sec careers should earn isk wise? (basically wondering how much isk grinding do you think each career path should you have to do to cover in pvp expenses)
Average Level 4 mission runner (this means battleship, average skills) Low skill retriever miner High skill hulk/mac miner Planet interaction specialist only (assume a full 24 hour planet cycle) T1 manufacturer T2 manufacturer Incursion runner
In other word: Average lvl 4 missioner: 2 t2 fitted cruisers in a day Low skill miner: 1 t2 fitted frig High skill miner: 1 t2 fitted cruiser Pi: 1 t2 fitted frig T1 manufacture: 1 t2 fitted frig every 2 days T2 mod: 1 t2 fitted cruiser Incursion runner: no clue. |

TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
383
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 13:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
hisec activities should only cover the cost of merlin hulls, maybe a caracal.
|

Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1415
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 13:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
posting in a stealth nerf lvl4 missions thread TK is recruiting |

rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
743
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 13:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
It should only cover T1 hulls.
titans and dreadnoughts. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |

Robert De'Arneth
45
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Posted - 2012.09.19 13:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
I can only speak for myself, but I make as much as the effort I put in. That is the way it should work, if someone can make 200 mil in that 3 hours, they deserve it. If someone makes 20 mil in that 3 hours, they deserve it. |

highonpop
Eve Liberation Force Fatal Ascension
310
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 13:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
You get out what you put in.
ISK/hr concept should be shot in the face.
http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Very%20best%20of%20Makalu%20Zarya
R.I.P Vile Rat http://evemaps.dotlan.net/live/Outpost/Rename/2012-09-12 |

Riot Girl
Perkone Caldari State
113
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 14:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP probably want people in high sec to earn enough isk to pay for plex. Some people feel high sec profits are too high, but those high sec profits are what keeps CCP in business. |

Josef Djugashvilis
The Scope Gallente Federation
586
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 14:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:posting in a stealth nerf lvl4 missions thread
Stealth?
More like a Blunderbuss. You want fries with that? |

highonpop
Eve Liberation Force Fatal Ascension
311
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 15:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:CCP probably want people in high sec to earn enough isk to pay for plex. Some people feel high sec profits are too high, but those high sec profits are what keeps CCP in business.
I know several nullsec people who rat there faces off to plex their accounts. I would say just as many people from nullsec PLEX tehir accounts than highsec. Especially when you can rat for just a few hours in nullsec and buy a PLEX and they do this for 2 or 3 accounts
http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Very%20best%20of%20Makalu%20Zarya
R.I.P Vile Rat http://evemaps.dotlan.net/live/Outpost/Rename/2012-09-12 |

Karn Dulake
Sad Flutes
870
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 15:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Posting in a nerf everything Highsec related so i have more targets in lowsec thread I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion. |

Trin Xi
279
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 15:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Karn Dulake wrote:Posting in a nerf everything Highsec related so i have more targets in lowsec thread Posting in a "'Toasters Gonna 'Toast" thread. |

Riot Girl
Perkone Caldari State
113
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 15:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
highonpop wrote:I know several nullsec people who rat there faces off to plex their accounts. I would say just as many people from nullsec PLEX tehir accounts than highsec. Especially when you can rat for just a few hours in nullsec and buy a PLEX and they do this for 2 or 3 accounts
Cool, I guess.
|

Chimpy B
The Philosophy Of Two
12
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 15:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
I wish I had time to play for 3 hours a day! |

Silk daShocka
Lawn Dart Industries
9
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 15:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
In terms of fitted ships lost per day, what do you think low sec and/or null sec income should cover? |

Jim Era
3214
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 15:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
Hey guys I am really hungry and I don't really think I want Subway today. Was thinking of getting like, mexican food, or maybe a burger?
Throw some suggestions my way, (no veggies) |

TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
385
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 15:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:CCP probably want people in high sec to earn enough isk to pay for plex. Some people feel high sec profits are too high, but those high sec profits are what keeps CCP in business.
It should be impossible to make enough isk for plex in hisec imo. Having the safest activities in game generate enough isk to plex your characters goes against the risk-vs-reward ethos of EVE Online.
Besides, it's a stupid goal anyway, because look what happened when incursionfaucets were introduced: Plex prices jumped. |

iskflakes
Magnets Inc.
64
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 15:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
Highsec income should be 3,000,000 ISK per day regardless of activity, and T2 hulls or anything larger than a cruiser should be banned. Track your wealth with EVE Stats: https://ohheck.co.uk/EVEStats/home.php |

Riot Girl
Perkone Caldari State
114
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 15:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
Don't get Mexican food it will give you food poisoning. |

Riot Girl
Perkone Caldari State
114
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 15:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:It should be impossible to make enough isk for plex in hisec imo. Having the safest activities in game generate enough isk to plex your characters goes against the risk-vs-reward ethos of EVE Online. But it doesn't go against the profitable business ethos of CCP.
Quote:Besides, it's a stupid goal anyway, because look what happened when incursionfaucets were introduced: Plex prices jumped. CCP want plex prices to jump. Higher plex prices means more people are inclined to buy plex. If plex was unavailable to high-sec players, the price of plex would drop to 250m each. No-one would but plex, they'd just paypal isk from Johnny Chinese instead. |

highonpop
Eve Liberation Force Fatal Ascension
312
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 15:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:Highsec income should be 3,000,000 ISK per day regardless of activity, and T2 hulls or anything larger than a cruiser should be banned.
So, highsec dwellers should just be paid a flat rate no matter what they do?
uh..... no. You would have people parking alts in highsec just to get the income and never undock
http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Very%20best%20of%20Makalu%20Zarya
R.I.P Vile Rat http://evemaps.dotlan.net/live/Outpost/Rename/2012-09-12 |

Din Chao
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
107
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 15:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Riot Girl wrote:CCP probably want people in high sec to earn enough isk to pay for plex. Some people feel high sec profits are too high, but those high sec profits are what keeps CCP in business. It should be impossible to make enough isk for plex in hisec imo. Having the safest activities in game generate enough isk to plex your characters goes against the risk-vs-reward ethos of EVE Online. Besides, it's a stupid goal anyway, because look what happened when incursionfaucets were introduced: Plex prices jumped. So no station trading?
And can someone link me to this "ethos of EVE Online" |

Seminole Sun
Hell's Librarians Darkmatter Initiative
1
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 16:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Assuming 3 hours of game play in a day, what level of t2 fitted t1 hulls do you feel the following hi sec careers should earn isk wise? (basically wondering how much isk grinding do you think each career path should you have to do to cover in pvp expenses)
Average Level 4 mission runner (this means battleship, average skills) Low skill retriever miner High skill hulk/mac miner Planet interaction specialist only (assume a full 24 hour planet cycle) T1 manufacturer T2 manufacturer Incursion runner
In other word: Average lvl 4 missioner: 2 t2 fitted cruisers in a day Low skill miner: 1 t2 fitted frig High skill miner: 1 t2 fitted cruiser Pi: 1 t2 fitted frig T1 manufacture: 1 t2 fitted frig every 2 days T2 mod: 1 t2 fitted cruiser Incursion runner: no clue.
I thought this was a well thought out question that (apparently) no one wanted to bother answering honestly... So here goes (with one change, I will give mine in terms of PLEX because I think it's a better standard).
Lvl 4 Mission Runner: 50 hours for Plex (roughly one month at 2 hours per night 5 nights a week) Low Skill Miner: 75 hours for Plex High Skill Miner: 40 hours for Plex PI: 2 Months for Plex (per character... so if you want to fully train up all three of your alts and dedicate your life to PI, you could plex your account at about a 2/3 ratio) T1 Manufacturer: 2 months for Plex T2 Manufacturer: slightly less than 1 month per plex Incursion runner: no idea Faction Warfare: 1.5 months for Plex Null-Sec Ratter: 1/2 months for Plex (recognizing that NOONE in null-sec spends all their time ratting)
Essentially, Plexing your account should be hard but not impossible unless you play more than "casually" (which I set as 2 hours per night, 5 nights per week).
|

Arcosian
EntroPrelatial Industria EntroPraetorian Aegis
22
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 16:02:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Assuming 3 hours of game play in a day, what level of t2 fitted t1 hulls do you feel the following hi sec careers should earn isk wise? (basically wondering how much isk grinding do you think each career path should you have to do to cover in pvp expenses)
Average Level 4 mission runner (this means battleship, average skills) Low skill retriever miner High skill hulk/mac miner Planet interaction specialist only (assume a full 24 hour planet cycle) T1 manufacturer T2 manufacturer Incursion runner
In other word: Average lvl 4 missioner: 2 t2 fitted cruisers in a day Low skill miner: 1 t2 fitted frig High skill miner: 1 t2 fitted cruiser Pi: 1 t2 fitted frig T1 manufacture: 1 t2 fitted frig every 2 days T2 mod: 1 t2 fitted cruiser Incursion runner: no clue.
That makes no sense. You should earn what you put in and essentially restricting the amount of isk one can earn per day would ruin the economy. I see this topic as a "nerf highsec income" thread but it seems to me like almost all "L33t" 0.0 PVPer have highsec alts for indy/trade stuff so nerfing highsec would indirectly hurt their income as awell.
If you want highsec to be brought in line with 0.0 income how about CCP fix the FW "exploit" or nerf 0.0 anoms to make them as profitable as L4. Yep that's right I said it. Easily making 60-90mil/hr running anoms in complete safety aka NAP fest 0.0 seems more carbearish to me than flying around highsec with all the "L33t 0.0 pvper" ganking industrials and mission boats.  |

Soundwave Plays Diablo
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
131
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 16:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Riot Girl wrote:CCP probably want people in high sec to earn enough isk to pay for plex. Some people feel high sec profits are too high, but those high sec profits are what keeps CCP in business. It should be impossible to make enough isk for plex in hisec imo. Having the safest activities in game generate enough isk to plex your characters goes against the risk-vs-reward ethos of EVE Online. Besides, it's a stupid goal anyway, because look what happened when incursionfaucets were introduced: Plex prices jumped.
So, let me Show you how terrible your idea is;
500 mil isk/160 hours = 3,125,000 misk per hour.
So no fuckin way did you think that out.
Also, I hate hearing about there's no risk vs reward in hisec.
I started out in a frig mining and doing level 1's. Absolutely minimal reward. Huge risk. Dessies didn't do it for me so moved on to cruiser. Slightly less risk, reward is still negligible. Then BC. At least you can't get solo'd if you don't react to aggression now, but anyone can stop you from mining, and can totally ninja your missions. Then finally you get your battleship and after a year of skilling you can make great loot in hisec. Where you can be taken out by any 4 asshats that know what they are doing. |

Arcosian
EntroPrelatial Industria EntroPraetorian Aegis
22
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 16:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Riot Girl wrote:CCP probably want people in high sec to earn enough isk to pay for plex. Some people feel high sec profits are too high, but those high sec profits are what keeps CCP in business. It should be impossible to make enough isk for plex in hisec imo. Having the safest activities in game generate enough isk to plex your characters goes against the risk-vs-reward ethos of EVE Online. Besides, it's a stupid goal anyway, because look what happened when incursionfaucets were introduced: Plex prices jumped. And lol ratting in carriers or PIMP fit faction BS 24/7 in NAP fest 0.0 is very dangerous.
|

Seminole Sun
Hell's Librarians Darkmatter Initiative
1
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 16:29:00 -
[26] - Quote
Arcosian wrote:That makes no sense. You should earn what you put in and essentially restricting the amount of isk one can earn per day would ruin the economy. I see this topic as a "nerf highsec income" thread but it seems to me like almost all "L33t" 0.0 PVPer have highsec alts for indy/trade stuff so nerfing highsec would indirectly hurt their income as awell. If you want highsec to be brought in line with 0.0 income how about CCP fix the FW "exploit" or nerf 0.0 anoms to make them as profitable as L4. Yep that's right I said it. Easily making 60-90mil/hr running anoms in complete safety aka NAP fest 0.0 seems more carbearish to me than flying around highsec with all the "L33t 0.0 pvper" ganking industrials and mission boats. 
That's not what she was saying. In fact, by putting it in terms of ships she was trying to take the "isk" issue out of it. Absolutely you should get out of it what you put in. But the question is, "how much work should you need for a specific amount of reward".
I think it's fair to also ask, "How fast should you accrue wealth from ganking?"
Should 10 hours of ganking (and the commensurate time repairing your sec status) result in 1 plex? 1/3 a plex? A net loss in wealth? It's a fair question.
Likewise, it's a fair question to say, "What is the appropriate rate of wealth gain (defining wealth in a non-isk way) for various hi-sec activities?"
Ultimately, the market can determine certain items but because of certain factors (direct ISK injected due to missions and rats, for example) CCP has established ratios that cannot be altered by the market. I think this thread gets to the heart of the question:
Are the ratios of reward accurate? Is the bounty curve on rats what it should be? Are the directly injected ISK rewards from missions where they should be?
That's a perfectly valid question to ask. |

Silk daShocka
Lawn Dart Industries
9
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 16:32:00 -
[27] - Quote
How come ganking freighters in high sec isn't on the list? Isn't that a source of high sec income? |

Seminole Sun
Hell's Librarians Darkmatter Initiative
1
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 16:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
Silk daShocka wrote:How come ganking freighters in high sec isn't on the list? Isn't that a source of high sec income?
I read the intent as being to include all sources of hi-sec income
So Datacore aggregation hi-sec ganking etc
SHOULD be on the list
my two cents: 3 months of 3 alts doing datacores should result in a plex hi-sec ganking: I don't know enough to know the ratio of "ganking time" vs. "repair security standing time" that's needed but I think this one will ultimately just have to be market driven. If you can gank a freighter with 5 billion in profit then you've got your plex and ultimately the carebears will decide how often a lonely freighter with 10 billion in stuff (half is destroyed) comes through Uedama / Niarja. |

Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
555
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 17:04:00 -
[29] - Quote
Posting in a ... thread. Nothing Found |

Kult Altol
Republican Industries Epsilon Fleet
93
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 19:02:00 -
[30] - Quote
Robert De'Arneth wrote:I can only speak for myself, but I make as much as the effort I put in. That is the way it should work, if someone can make 200 mil in that 3 hours, they deserve it. If someone makes 20 mil in that 3 hours, they deserve it.
Ugh gross, I'm entitled to others isk.
A narrow mind is a focused mind. |
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