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Ariana Fiedala
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Posted - 2005.02.26 03:10:00 -
[1]
Ladies and Gentlemen,
After a year of working in tech two research, I've identified a number of items I feel are problems with the system. As both my CEO and my lead alternate character are both approaching 125,000 research points without so much as a hint of good news in over a year of effort I feel compelled to share my observations and suggestions. My intent is not to whine, but to offer my opinions on how the T2 research system might be improved. I welcome feedback from other researchers and hope that if anything stated below seems logical it might be considered by the devs for implementation.
Problem 1: The impact of halt missions is insignificant compared to the cost and time invested. Simply put, the guy who grinds away every day responding to his agents gripes does not have significantly improved chance of obtaining the desired reward versus somebody who starts up projects and simply forgets about them. This is exacerbated by the folks who now have 5 accounts doing research and haven't done a halt mission in a month. Doing the missions dosen't even garner you an improvement to NPC corp standing.
Proposed Solution: Increase the RP reward for doing halt missions. For some players they absorb a considerable percentage of play time. Those who show dedication to the research effort consistently over time should be appropriately compensated. A perfect system in my opinion would be one where standing with the RnD agent increases for each mission and greater standing gives more RP. It would be nice if corp standing were to go up as well.
Problem 2: Research seems to be narrowly focused to a few select disciplines. Consider Mechanical Engineering (with a wealth of appealing research prospects) vs. Graviton Physics (had 4, then 2, now zero possible blueprints.)
Proposed Solution: Redistribute possible results among a wider range of fields.
Probelm 3: Even moreso recently, available blueprints in given fields seem to change drastically and often. A player decides to conduct research in a field and two weeks later nothing predictable is listed. There isn't even a feel for how long it might be until something WILL come available again leaving the researcher in the uncomfortable position of holding onto what he's got in an unfounded hope somthing will come up down the road, or switching to a new field which might not be offering anything either in another two weeks.
Proposed Solution: My guess would be that BPO releases have been done in fits and starts. Maybe 10 are given out in a week, then none for three months in a given field. Extending the time frame on this would keep peoples hopes alive, as nobody wants to invest effort with no hope of return.
Problem 4: Insufficient information is available for a researcher to make informed decisions on where to focus efforts. While you can make general guesses about which fields have more competition vs. those with greater likelihood of sucess, no empirical data is available on this to my knowledge.
Proposed Solution: Provide information Eve-wide of how many projects are active in a given field, the average # of RP per day and the average RP total of projects in that field. It is my understanding that this information was available in the past but has since ceased to be. At least that way someone might understand why the 6 projects they have in Starship Engineering haven't and probably never will provide them anything of value.
Problem 5: No feedback at all from agents. A researcher diligently works on halt missions with absolutely no confirmation that his efforts are giving him a chance. I've found myself wondering many times (after the first year) whether my projects are really active and I'm even being considered for BP's that drop.
Proposed Solution: When BP's are given out in a field, inform all active participants in that field that they were considered but did not win. No names or specifics need be given, just confirmation of the fact that your ticket in the lotto was good but didn't win. After all, in the real lottery people keep playing because they get 4 of 6 numbers correct, giving them hope for the next time. Why should this lottery be any different.
In conclusion I'd prefer a point purchase system that would allow BPO's to be acquired with a given # of points. Knowing that someday your persistance will yield fruit, it just might take a while would reassure many. It wouldn't even have to replace the lottery, it could be in conjunction with it. Once you reach a certain plateau you can get a basic blueprint from each field or choose to hold on to your lottery ticket as a chance for the latest and greatest.
These are just the thoughts and opinions of a frustrated researcher who loves Eve but detests the T2 lottery system as it now stands. Don't be afraid to comment and if anyone with the power to change things or influence someone who does thinks what I'm saying makes sense, please cosider
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Exarch
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Posted - 2005.02.26 05:40:00 -
[2]
I like the idea of more feedback from agents, would be nice to know when bpos are given out in your field, and the general chances of getting one.
I don't like the idea of increasing rewards for rp missions. It is already a large bonus, 100% !!. I run 5 agents and do 90% of their missions witch gives me a huge advantage over the slacker who never does a mission, and equals the duel account researcher who never does a mission. In the end there is no way of stopping somebody from paying for a half dozen accounts to research, and you can't compete with somebody willing to spend all that real money for ingame items in any case.
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Ariana Fiedala
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Posted - 2005.03.01 03:09:00 -
[3]
Apparently the available blueprints from research fields continues to decrease. Here's an analogy for you:
You go out to 0.0 space and hunt BS rats. Instead of loot, you get loot tickets. These loot tickets go into a pool and if you number comes up in say 3, 6, 9 months you might get some loot. Bear in mind you've trained your skills and dedicated hours of your time to being able to hunt these rats. If you aren't lucky you won't get crap and you just wasted 100K ISK on ammo every day for 4 months.
Given this scenario how many fighter characters would still be playing Eve???
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Daedon
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Posted - 2005.03.01 07:58:00 -
[4]
The reasons that the number of available blueprints drop is because someone are lucky enough to win the lottery.
There seem to be a set number of blueprints for each item, and as soon as those are handed out, no more will be handed out unless some of the handed out blueprints gets destroyed. This is done to prevent the market being swamped with t2 items
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Phades
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Posted - 2005.03.01 10:12:00 -
[5]
To continue with her line of thought, it would really suck if the loot/bounties ran out faction by faction until it was pointless to shoot back. Also in the same vein, if they tracked ore/minerals it would really suck if asteroids stopped reappearing because there is no more (insert asteroid/mineral type here) available. Leaving people with little to nothing to do, but shoot each other and just wander around in space aimlessly.
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Ariana Fiedala
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Posted - 2005.03.01 16:30:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Ariana Fiedala on 01/03/2005 16:38:52
Edited by: Ariana Fiedala on 01/03/2005 16:36:54
Flooding the market I would agree is not a wise choice, but I always hear that argument and it makes no sense. It seems the pendulum never finds a happy medium as there are monopolies on certain high interest items which is equally damaging to the market. Small portions of the player base make money hand over fist on huge profit margins while others are shut out of an aspect of the game they would enjoy. How much did you pay for your last Cap Recharger 2?
If left to function as a free market, the game tends to adjust itself... there is an unlimited supply of T1 BPs available for anyone who wants to buy them. Thousands of people still profit from sale of T1 items, though I will concede that the market for some items is pretty much shot. Usually though these are the items that can be built and sold by inexperienced entry level manufacturers and tradesmen. If someobdy has a blueprint and it's not worth it to him to produce something then he (likely) won't, supply will go down as demand stays constant and the price will rise. It's free market economics. What we have now is more like 1900's style monopolies with a mix of Soviet style market controls. It's a shame because with only minor adjustments over time I'd say the devs have created a breathtaking microcosm in which economic principles function. Now I'd love to see it get managed by Alan Greenspan instead of Josef Stalin.
Just my two cents,
Ari
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Vigilant
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Posted - 2005.03.01 17:47:00 -
[7]
Let use RP's to buy Copies .... from a selectable list....
At least this would give use something to look foward too..
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Mjolnir
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Posted - 2005.03.01 23:58:00 -
[8]
I've mentioned this before but i think there should a RP modifier that relates to the time you've spent reseraching. Like start off with a 1.0 mod and every week add 1.01 to the mod or something like that so it would be (modifier * rp/day) That way the longer you've reserach the more RP you get per day regardless of skill or standing. But that will give a slightly better chance for ppl who have done research longer to get a chance for a bp instead of people who've only done reserach for a short period of time. Its really distressing to hear people getting blueprints with a tiny amount of RP.
I understand why the research lottery was setup in the first place to allow the small guy to get a fair chance, but this is just rediculus. And I think its created the oppiste effect, whoever was lucky enough to get a BPO in the first place will have the money need to purchase the prints from other people, while people who dont have the prints will hardly have a chance of purchasing a T2 print, simply because of the cash involved in obtaining them. There needs to be some kind of reward for people who have been reseraching for so long. Even in the form of a BPC as bonus to compeleting reserach missions.
Which PA character are you? |
Ariana Fiedala
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Posted - 2005.03.11 02:46:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Ariana Fiedala on 11/03/2005 12:24:49
Im starting to feel nobody listens. Is there a more appropriate way to interact with decision makers to get a response or feedback? Any advice would be welcome.
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Toran Mehtar
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Posted - 2005.03.11 10:53:00 -
[10]
I have to say, that any thoughts about tech II research are fairly irrelevant now. To make any changes so late in the proceedings, when most tech II bpos are no longer available from agents, makes very little sense.
What I feel that those involved in research should be looking at now is what happens when tech II research finally ends. Will all those rp's become worthless ? Will all the various science skills become wasted sp's ? We have to assume that somehow the efforts that have been but into tech II research will somehow carry over into tech III research, yet not many people would like to see that handled the same way.
Without going into too much detail over what I would like to see, what I definitely think should happen is more importance being given to the running of R&D missions. I believe that they should give more rp's than they currently do, but I also believe that they should give lp's aswell, that can be traded in for special R&D agent only offers (like high tech bpcs).
And yes, doing missions should increase R&D agent personal standing, and therefore effective quality, and therefore daily rp's.
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Shinshi Casoyako
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Posted - 2005.03.11 10:59:00 -
[11]
I see your point but I dont agree with the solutions. I think if not only BPO's but also copies would be given out the problem would be drasticly decreased. Only copies of currently ingame bpo's could be obtained and the ME of the stuff is very low.
My thought cheerz
Seriously Have I Not Said How I Can Assist Some One You Are Killing Online? |
Alcazar
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Posted - 2005.03.11 11:47:00 -
[12]
Adding a time factor would be a very good idea, yes it's a lottery but a simple addition like this could be a big help.
People might still get offers at low rp points but at least it should skew the distribution to those who really started early and have nothing yet.
Missions already get double points every day...that's enough imho.
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vanBuskirk
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Posted - 2005.03.11 12:06:00 -
[13]
How about implementing reverse engineering, with a low base chance, and making the skill an agent mission drop? Also make the items themselves agent mission drops. That way, you have the choice of selling the item immediately or taking a chance of planting the money tree.
I agree with the point about research on moribund fields; I have a project going with some points (not many) on it, and the agent info now says "nothing easily predictable". Does that mean that I'm now wasting my time?
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"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent".
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Ariana Fiedala
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Posted - 2005.03.11 12:24:00 -
[14]
Nothing easily predicatable does not 'necessarily' mean you are wasting your time, just that you should not expect anything in the immediate future. Fields have gone unpredictable in the past and later offered things again. A good example is Rocket Science which quit offering anything for a while and recently showed some MWD's available again.
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Dobra
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Posted - 2005.03.11 15:26:00 -
[15]
I think that just because you have invested a lot of time and money shouldn't necesesarily (sp?) grant you a bpo. Irl a lot of companies does research that never give them back the money they invested.
Researching should be a lottery as it is irl, BUT I since this is a game and there should be somekind of bonus at the end I think that some kind of offers should be implemented for R&D agents also.
Esp for those rare bpo's.
Imagine that you have 100k RP and you agent approaches you and tells you that he has a deal for you.
For x RP and a bit of stuff like homeless etc he will give you a X run BPO of a HAC. This means that having huge amounts of RP will give you something in the end.
And people will be able to produce both equipment and ships and make the market less monopolied. Still you won't get this kind of offer all the time and the offers will be quite expensive as you have to either take the bpc or be in the race and hope for a bpo.
There are a lot of kinks in this Idea but if you smooth out some edges and work on it a bit I think it would make most players doing these missions a lot more happy.
/Dobra
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Toran Mehtar
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Posted - 2005.03.11 15:50:00 -
[16]
 Originally by: Dobra
For x RP and a bit of stuff like homeless etc he will give you a X run BPO of a HAC. This means that having huge amounts of RP will give you something in the end.
But how many people would reduce their chance of getting a bpo (giving up rps), for a bpc ? More to the point, why should they ?
Like I said before, let R&D missions give loyalty points as well as extra rp's. This allows you to do exactly what you are suggesting without sacrificing rps, and gives more reward to those who actually put effort into research without preventing completely those who don't/can't do the missions from getting a bpo.
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Vigilant
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Posted - 2005.03.11 20:05:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Toran Mehtar
Originally by: Dobra
For x RP and a bit of stuff like homeless etc he will give you a X run BPO of a HAC. This means that having huge amounts of RP will give you something in the end.
But how many people would reduce their chance of getting a bpo (giving up rps), for a bpc ? More to the point, why should they ?
Like I said before, let R&D missions give loyalty points as well as extra rp's. This allows you to do exactly what you are suggesting without sacrificing rps, and gives more reward to those who actually put effort into research without preventing completely those who don't/can't do the missions from getting a bpo.
Not a bad suggestion... but "Who still does all their R and D agent missions  Anyone.. "
Yeah, next subject... but, on the flip side...it may encourage people to do them...
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Odin Tahmorrex
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Posted - 2005.03.11 21:32:00 -
[18]
Ariana,
I agree with you full heartedly. It would be nice if doing missions for a certain agent would give Loyalty points at least... which you could 'cash' in for a higher daily RP increase.
Simplified Example:
Ariana gets 50 RP a day from her agent to start with. She does missions for him daily, raising her to 100 RP that day. Each mission gives her 100 Loyalty points as well. When she accumulates 10000 Loyalty points, the agent says "Thank you for being so loyal, I will work twice as hard for you!" and increases her daily RP to 100RP (passive). Another increase at 100k Loyalty, then again at 1m loyalty, then again at some number so large nobody will bother to try, and those that do will claim WTBUTTIMSOUB3R1THURTZ.
The above numbers aren't as important as the idea really, but I like my idea.
Just a thought, i only have one R&D agent, and I hate doing those missions, it's just a side job, shot in the dark... but for people who are trying i think it would be a nice bonus! |
Ariana Fiedala
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Posted - 2005.03.20 04:39:00 -
[19]
Odin,
Seems a good suggestion. What is really irritating here is there's nothing to separate the 'wheat from the chaff.' Some guy can just start an alt account then go hunt rat BS in 0.0 during his time online and has about 1/2 the same chance as a dedicated researcher. To me that seems wrong. The beauty of Eve has always been you can focus your character and your skills on whatever aspect of the game you most enjoy-- e.g. we're not all the same. So far nothing has come through that makes me think being a dedicated researcher doing 5+ halt missions every day counts for a darn thing.
Thanks for your suggestions/input,
Ari
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Overdriver
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Posted - 2005.03.20 11:08:00 -
[20]
Some very good points in this thread. I like your ideas for fixes for the current system a lot Ariana.
Some of the other ideas suggested about bpcs and lp from r&d agents could also do some good for the system.
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Citizen Angstrom
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Posted - 2005.03.21 06:44:00 -
[21]
When I started EVE, I made a character who would be dedicated to R&D. Now, I know I should have done more investigation and reading up on the lottery, but I assumed that if I was patient and dedicated and so forth, I would get a result eventually...
Fast forward a year. I have a single research agent, who I ignore almost totally. I don't have any lab slots any more, and I have completely given up waiting for a T2 BPO. This is a bad state of affairs, and I agree with Ariana that some kind of 'fix' is needed to wake the whole game up around R&D.
My favourite idea is simply this: allow T2 BPCs to be given out by research agents. As a BPC (3-run, 5-run, 10-run?) it can't unbalance the game. Using the current code and set-up, the Devs need make absolutely minimalist changes, and if you are in it for the long haul, just reject the BPC offer and keep on waiting.
Simple changes are the best... 
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Falbala
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Posted - 2005.03.21 12:14:00 -
[22]
T2 is not the end of the universe, it is supposed to go up to T5. However I hope in the future research will be improved, at the very least have agent missions really matter for the lottery.
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Glarion Garnier
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Posted - 2005.03.21 13:48:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Glarion Garnier on 21/03/2005 13:49:00
Originally by: Falbala
T2 is not the end of the universe, it is supposed to go up to T5. However I hope in the future research will be improved, at the very least have agent missions really matter for the lottery.
I have to point out. CCP's has a history of promising things then not delivering them,.. Like many of the promised Exodus features that were promised but you can't see or hear anything about them. At least the dev's should give us some reasons why they will not implement them. More discussion I'd like to Mine Comet's and so forth.
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Phades
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Posted - 2005.03.21 14:00:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Falbala
T2 is not the end of the universe, it is supposed to go up to T5. However I hope in the future research will be improved, at the very least have agent missions really matter for the lottery.
How many years are you willing to wait for just tech 3? They havent quite released all of the tech 2 stuff yet and as far as i can tell some tech 1 stuff isnt available as a bpo.
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Randuin MaraL
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Posted - 2005.03.21 14:58:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ariana Fiedala
Edited by: Ariana Fiedala on 11/03/2005 12:24:49
Im starting to feel nobody listens. Is there a more appropriate way to interact with decision makers to get a response or feedback? Any advice would be welcome.
If noone replies here - send a bug report ;)
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Never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die.
MEDUSA veteran, Khumaak Award winner |
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