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Biggest misconception in EvE

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E man Industries	Posted - 2011.08.09 13:20:00 - [1] One of EvE's barriers to new players and younger existing players is the perception you need x to play. Oh I need 60million isk before I can go to low sec. Oh I need a battle ship before I can pvp. I need 15m skill points to join a corp. EvEÆs community and CCP need to address this misconception. Because you donÆt need these things. A new player should be in 0.0 or low sec because that is when things are the most affordable. You do not want to go to low sec or 0.0 with a battleship to learnt he ropes...you want to learn the ropes in a t1 frigate. The most important thing for a new player to do is join a corp where they want to be that is friendly and active. A new player can do a lot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96b7Jk5xCTQ and http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1025677 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3riWfJ7CC-I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK03MwJ5yIc Skill points and ISK are not what hold people back...but people think it is. Experience holds people, the only way to get it is to go do it. A corp will help you in this. How do we get this message out to noobs though who still think they are ôbehindö. I may have more skill points but that does not mean you canÆt kick my arse. We need to tell new players this. See to many join eve and then leave because they think they need x to play. This is nto wow and you donÆt need to be level 80 with purples to play. You are valuable 1 day in. Do the tutorials, grab a ship and come tackle. EvEÆs barrier to new players is a misconception that players hold. We need to address that! Thanks for reading. ______ Hello WoW players. Look at your toon, now back to me. Sadly it isn't me, but if it wasn't simplistic pre scripted linear mono dimensional game you could look like me. I'm in a Paladin
Cpt Greagor Caldari Liquid Relief	Posted - 2011.08.09 13:26:00 - [2] He's right, you don't need purples to play EvE, blues will suffice. R A I N B O W S

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2011.08.09 13:34:00 - [3] I need to log on to play? Secure 3rd party service \| in-game 'Holy Veldspar' Now /w voice

idea	Posted - 2011.08.09 13:35:00 - [4] Very nice article but just post by your CCP staff name
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.09 13:37:00 - [5] Originally by: Chribba I need to log on to play? No. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Hestia Mar	Posted - 2011.08.09 13:38:00 - [6] What utter cr*p... What you mean is how do we get noobs to come lo-sec so we can have easy kills and bump our KB's! A new player to Eve with only a few days NPC corp activity will probably not even know what 'tackle' means in the context of the game, and even then there is a definite skill to be able to tackle a ship, especially one flown by a 50m SP pilot. None of the tutorials give experience of tackling in any case. Read the recruitment channels, and many corps have an SP limit in any case so they are not having to help a completely, and truly, brand new player in a pvp situation. It could be argued that most noobs are actually new alts and the player knows exactly what is required in lo-sec and so doesn't go there until he's got at least some skills so as to have some sort of chance, otherwise he's just cannon fodder. H
Cpt Greagor Caldari Liquid Relief	Posted - 2011.08.09 13:38:00 - [7] Originally by: idea Very nice article but just post by your CCP staff name And suddenly, everyone thinks everyone is a CCP alt. Also, this thread has been graced by Chribba's presence. Bow down to your Veldspar overlord now. R A I N B O W S
idea	Posted - 2011.08.09 13:42:00 - [8] Originally by: Cpt Greagor Originally by: idea Very nice article but just post by your CCP staff name And suddenly, everyone thinks everyone is a CCP alt. Also, this thread has been graced by Chribba's presence. Bow down to your Veldspar overlord now. Lols! another CCP staff on standby with his response
Tilux Caldari Tri Sol Syndicate	Posted - 2011.08.09 13:45:00 - [9] What he said is kinda true, when I started playing, I thought I needed a battleship to go in lowsec or nullsec. But I actually managed to go in null sec with my Corp when I was 3 months old, (it was cobalt edge, meh) I learned the rope and went on to live in Querious, Delve, Providence and Period Basis. To get more people in be game, I agree with OP, we need to to get rid of the "oh I need x to go/do y" problem.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.09 13:45:00 - [10] Originally by: Hestia Mar A new player to Eve with only a few days NPC corp activity will probably not even know what 'tackle' means in the context of the game, àso he needs other players to show him, teach him, train him, give him advice, and let him test it. The SP is not what determines this ù game experience and knowledge does, just like the OP states. Quote: Read the recruitment channels, and many corps have an SP limit in any case so they are not having to help a completely, and truly, brand new player in a pvp situation. They will still have to, because chances are that he will still be new to pvp situations, no matter the amount of SP. The SP limit has usually more to do with simply judging what the OP is talking about: the age and experience of the player, not the capabilities of the character. A large pool of SP also tends to indicate that the player can support himself and is less likely to need financial aid from the corp. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki

Cpt Greagor Caldari Liquid Relief	Posted - 2011.08.09 13:50:00 - [11] Originally by: idea Lols! another CCP staff on standby with his response Everyone stand back while I feed the troll. Because if you have read most of what I say on these forums, you can tell I'm a CCP alt alright... R A I N B O W S
idea	Posted - 2011.08.09 13:51:00 - [12] Originally by: Cpt Greagor Originally by: idea Lols! another CCP staff on standby with his response Everyone stand back while I feed the troll. Because if you have read most of what I say on these forums, you can tell I'm a CCP alt alright... Yumm yumm
Hestia Mar	Posted - 2011.08.09 13:57:00 - [13] In support of my earlier response to this thread; there's a new thread in Ships and Modules titled "Tackler Options", and the first question the OP asks is 'What does tackling entail?'... I think that proves my point? H
Cpt Greagor Caldari Liquid Relief	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:01:00 - [14] Originally by: Hestia Mar In support of my earlier response to this thread; there's a new thread in Ships and Modules titled "Tackler Options", and the first question the OP asks is 'What does tackling entail?'... I think that proves my point? H Not at all, they could have 100mil sp and not know what tackling means, having more SP isn't going to teach you anything. Having more EXPERIENCE does teach you things, and being in corps and/or going to low/null fighting is what teaches you and gives you the experience to know what those things are and be able to do them effectively. A good ship is nothing without a good pilot. A good pilot is still very deadly even with a bad ship. R A I N B O W S
Hestia Mar	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:05:00 - [15] Originally by: Cpt Greagor Originally by: Hestia Mar In support of my earlier response to this thread; there's a new thread in Ships and Modules titled "Tackler Options", and the first question the OP asks is 'What does tackling entail?'... I think that proves my point? H Not at all, they could have 100mil sp and not know what tackling means, having more SP isn't going to teach you anything. Having more EXPERIENCE does teach you things, and being in corps and/or going to low/null fighting is what teaches you and gives you the experience to know what those things are and be able to do them effectively. A good ship is nothing without a good pilot. A good pilot is still very deadly even with a bad ship. Lets use a reasoned argument here - they have 100M SP and don't know what tackling is? Pardon?
Hicksimus Gallente Plan-It Xpress	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:12:00 - [16] Originally by: Hestia Mar Originally by: Cpt Greagor Originally by: Hestia Mar In support of my earlier response to this thread; there's a new thread in Ships and Modules titled "Tackler Options", and the first question the OP asks is 'What does tackling entail?'... I think that proves my point? H Not at all, they could have 100mil sp and not know what tackling means, having more SP isn't going to teach you anything. Having more EXPERIENCE does teach you things, and being in corps and/or going to low/null fighting is what teaches you and gives you the experience to know what those things are and be able to do them effectively. A good ship is nothing without a good pilot. A good pilot is still very deadly even with a bad ship. Lets use a reasoned argument here - they have 100M SP and don't know what tackling is? Pardon? Yes, 6 year old bots have no clue what tackling is.
Taedrin Gallente Zero Percent Tax Haven	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:15:00 - [17] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Chribba I need to log on to play? No. But how else will I acquire massive amounts of veldspar!?!?!? ---------- Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident" Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
Cpt Greagor Caldari Liquid Relief	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:17:00 - [18] Originally by: Hestia Mar Lets use a reasoned argument here - they have 100M SP and don't know what tackling is? Pardon? What I'm saying is that SP doesn't determine your skill. At equal skill levels, yes the pilot with more SP will be better, but you don't learn how to effectively tackle/pvp/whatever by staying in hisec and waiting until you can fly a ceptor. You learn by going to low in frigs and dying a lot. Whatever the reason you died was, you learn not to do that again, so when you do finally get your ceptor, you don't lose it over and over, you know what you're doing by then. For another example, lets apply this to sports, you can read every book there is about baseball and know everything there is to know about it, but if you can't catch/hit a ball, does any of that even matter? R A I N B O W S
Kijo Rikki Caldari Point of No Return Waterboard	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:19:00 - [19] I find the greatest problem with EvE is the fact that it is persistent with real loss involvement. That translates to required dedication to the game to maintain your position in the world. Coupled with how long it takes to do anything in this game and it becomes clear that this game is a massive time sink and will not appeal to many players who are just looking for a few hours of fun without any commitments. Sure, you can do things in EvE that don't require time but lets face it, they're boring and any other MMO does a better job of it.
Simetraz	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:23:00 - [20] Most fun position in PvP. Tackle. Create character and put enough skills to do the job. Stop that character training and start another. You now have a character that every 0.0 alliance would love to see you bring out to play with. Cost, almost nothing, enjoy.

Ayieka Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:25:00 - [21] Originally by: Simetraz Most fun position in PvP. Tackle.
Mr LaForge	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:29:00 - [22] No such thing as new players. only new alts.
SilentSkills Gallente Tax Evaders Inc.	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:30:00 - [23] I disagree, and its from personal experience. You cannot make money in a t1 frigate in 0.0. It's unpractical, plus a newbie player that is still in a t1 frigate probably has no grasp on basic game concepts that the tutorial gives you (besides the free destroyer). The Monocle Definition CCP - Originally by: Imuran Cannot code properly
Thornat	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:30:00 - [24] Edited by: Thornat on 09/08/2011 14:34:03 Originally by: Hestia Mar Originally by: Cpt Greagor Originally by: Hestia Mar In support of my earlier response to this thread; there's a new thread in Ships and Modules titled "Tackler Options", and the first question the OP asks is 'What does tackling entail?'... I think that proves my point? H Not at all, they could have 100mil sp and not know what tackling means, having more SP isn't going to teach you anything. Having more EXPERIENCE does teach you things, and being in corps and/or going to low/null fighting is what teaches you and gives you the experience to know what those things are and be able to do them effectively. A good ship is nothing without a good pilot. A good pilot is still very deadly even with a bad ship. Lets use a reasoned argument here - they have 100M SP and don't know what tackling is? Pardon? Ok I wasnt going to say anything, but you said it for me.. I was like? If play Eve for that long and you don't know what tackling is, you have either purchased your account, or have been hiding in a hanger avoiding eye contact with the chat box. By than you would have learned the term by accident at least. Lets kind of try to keep things in perspective here. I think what the OP is saying in a roundabout way is that an Eve players newbie experience is usually an uncomfortable one in which many misconceptions are formed and either cause them to quit, or if they stay turns those temporary misconceptions into permanent ones. Most of these conceptions are actually fed to them by other players and in this kind of lays at least the source of the problem. Their is a large portion of the community that does not experience everything that Eve has to offer, but that said I doubt a Pvp player would be interested in sitting in Jitta trading on the market anymore than a trader is interested in PvP. There are many ways to play Eve, the problem is that each type of player either IL legitimizes the other, scorns them or vilifies them. Industrial players living out of hangers treat pirates like A hole thieves, while pirates look down at industrial players like carebear newbs that deserve everything they get with many stereotypes and misconceptions in-between. These sort of rivalries have become the perceptions fed to new players made permanent through personal experience. That perception becomes solidified by the fact that the actions of players confirm this. Industrial players run and hide, PvPers kill and take your stuff. A couple of trash talking experiences and the perception becomes permanent. Its just an aspect of Eve that, even if it can be kind of ugly sometimes. As a player that has experienced every aspect of Eve (with the exception of more recent features like Wormholes which IÆm trying out tonight) I can honestly say that most players in Eve regardless of what professions they persue are generally quite cordial and the perception that Eve players are all a bunch of ruthless bastards or freighter hugging carebears, and everything in-between, is simply nonsensical stereotyping. The newbie experience can probably be improved by CCP a bit, but breaking the misconception about Eve players and how Eve is played, I think thatÆs something we are just going to have to live with. Like I said, its part of its charm. Only personal experience can teach you otherwise and unfortunately personal experiences in Eve certainly vary and takes time often too much time for players to stick around. I don't see how that experiance would be improved by a newbie going out into 0.0 in a T1 frigate. If anything it will further solidify that this is not a place to ever go for any reason. 0.0 is a place you when you are an intermediate or experianced player, at which point you discover you are a newb all over again. Its the next level, not the first level.
Cpt Greagor Caldari Liquid Relief	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:31:00 - [25] Originally by: Mr LaForge No such thing as new players. only new alts. That accusation is 99.9% accurate. R A I N B O W S
Abdiel Kavash Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:32:00 - [26] Originally by: Kijo Rikki I find the greatest problem with EvE is the fact that it is persistent with real loss involvement. That translates to required dedication to the game to maintain your position in the world. Coupled with how long it takes to do anything in this game and it becomes clear that this game is a massive time sink and will not appeal to many players who are just looking for a few hours of fun without any commitments. Sure, you can do things in EvE that don't require time but lets face it, they're boring and any other MMO does a better job of it. Entirely correct. And I have never seen EVE being advertised as appealing to such players. ---
Cpt Greagor Caldari Liquid Relief	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:35:00 - [27] Originally by: Thornat Ok I wasnt going to say anything, but you said it for me.. I was like? If play Eve for that long and you don't know what tackling is, you have either purchased your account, or have been hiding in a hanger avoiding eye contact with the chat box. By than you would have learned the term by accident at least. The point wasn't that a person had 100mil SP, the point was that no amount of SP teaches you what tackling is. You have to go out and do it or at the VERY least, have someone teach you. Originally by: SilentSkills I disagree, and its from personal experience. You cannot make money in a t1 frigate in 0.0. It's unpractical, plus a newbie player that is still in a t1 frigate probably has no grasp on basic game concepts that the tutorial gives you (besides the free destroyer). And also, the point isn't to make money in a T1 frig, the point is to learn in a T1 frig, so when you get the T2, you don't lose it often and you can make money in it. R A I N B O W S
Thornat	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:38:00 - [28] Originally by: Abdiel Kavash Originally by: Kijo Rikki I find the greatest problem with EvE is the fact that it is persistent with real loss involvement. That translates to required dedication to the game to maintain your position in the world. Coupled with how long it takes to do anything in this game and it becomes clear that this game is a massive time sink and will not appeal to many players who are just looking for a few hours of fun without any commitments. Sure, you can do things in EvE that don't require time but lets face it, they're boring and any other MMO does a better job of it. Entirely correct. And I have never seen EVE being advertised as appealing to such players. I agree. Eve is a game that will never appeal to a wide audiance, in fact given its membership numbers its actually quite amazing that their are so many people who actually play a game like this. This is a game of patience and social interaction first. If you come to Eve looking to find a typical MMO you will be sorely disapointed, Eve is a lot of things but typical... hell no. Eve is a raw, human experiance that sucks you in on a personal level. You don't play Eve, you live Eve.
Miss Rabblt	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:40:00 - [29] generally OP's idea is ok. However personally i prefer to not recruit newbees into our 0.0 corp. I'm sure every person should start from empire. Because elsewere you loose the game. Mainly if you start from carebear 0.0 corp. Then you simply hide in deep 0.0 space. And after long time you will start to play from begin if you ever try to look around.
Thornat	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:44:00 - [30] Originally by: Cpt Greagor Originally by: Thornat Ok I wasnt going to say anything, but you said it for me.. I was like? If play Eve for that long and you don't know what tackling is, you have either purchased your account, or have been hiding in a hanger avoiding eye contact with the chat box. By than you would have learned the term by accident at least. The point wasn't that a person had 100mil SP, the point was that no amount of SP teaches you what tackling is. You have to go out and do it or at the VERY least, have someone teach you. Originally by: SilentSkills I disagree, and its from personal experience. You cannot make money in a t1 frigate in 0.0. It's unpractical, plus a newbie player that is still in a t1 frigate probably has no grasp on basic game concepts that the tutorial gives you (besides the free destroyer). And also, the point isn't to make money in a T1 frig, the point is to learn in a T1 frig, so when you get the T2, you don't lose it often and you can make money in it. Well I think what SilentSkills was saying was a two part answer. You cannot make money in a T1 Frigate in 0.0... <---period.... Next setence. "Its Unpractical". Another words. You can't make money, hence your only going to take losses. You aren't going to live long enough to learn anything... and you are likely to be even more confused since your going out their without even basic concepts, let alone the advanced knowledge just to get around in 0.0 required. I mean imagine jumping into a system and finding a bubble... What does a newbie know about a bubble.. nothing. what does he learn when he goes into 0.0 and see's a bubble.. that you get blown up. What does he gather from this experiance. Don't go into 0.0 if you don't want to get blown up. The point Im making is telling newbs to get in a frigate to learn how to play Eve in 0.0 is like sending would be soldiers to a war to learn how to fight one. The only thing you will learn is not to go their, an impression that may very well turn you off of ever going again permenantly.

Magnus Veyr	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:47:00 - [31] I agree with the OP. The problem is that most new players are used to being forced to grind before they're allowed to have fun; "Must be lvl 85, must have gear and until then I'm useless", that sort of thinking. Another issue is that unlike most other MMOs this one requires some effort and putting one's brain to work, realising that this is more important than grind is just an alien concept to most people, as they're not used to it. I always have done my part in spreading that "knowledge" but you can only reach so many, and only a select few of them will a) believe you and b) can be bothered.
Simetraz	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:51:00 - [32] Edited by: Simetraz on 09/08/2011 14:52:58 The problem also seems to be with the definition or what people think a tackle does. The reason why I stated that you shut down training on a tackler character is because he/she will die, ALOT. Well maybe not a lot, your survival depends on the people you are flying with, and some other things you will find out along the way. But either way the odds are not in your favor which is what makes it so much fun and the reason to keep it low with no implants. That is your standard tackler in a interceptor. Your job is not DPS. Now there is one more step above that. You will see them in Drams and its twin, and still interceptors. Those people will also be soloing sometimes and they will not be just tackling and waiting for the Calvary. They will be looking to take you out and if there friends don't show up, then no kill mail for them. Point is you don't need 70 Mill SP to do the job in fact you will run out of skills to train LONG before that. And the bottom line is the lower the SP count is the cheaper it is to replace. Also easier to leave a dedicated PvP character @ the rally point while you rat in another for ISK. Nothing worse then having a CTA you want to go on and you are know where close by. Easier to log off one character and log on the other. It is all about options.
Cpt Greagor Caldari Liquid Relief	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:52:00 - [33] Originally by: Thornat Well I think what SilentSkills was saying was a two part answer. You cannot make money in a T1 Frigate in 0.0... <---period.... Next setence. "Its Unpractical". Another words. You can't make money, hence your only going to take losses. You aren't going to live long enough to learn anything... and you are likely to be even more confused since your going out their without even basic concepts, let alone the advanced knowledge just to get around in 0.0 required. I mean imagine jumping into a system and finding a bubble... What does a newbie know about a bubble.. nothing. what does he learn when he goes into 0.0 and see's a bubble.. that you get blown up. What does he gather from this experiance. Don't go into 0.0 if you don't want to get blown up. The point Im making is telling newbs to get in a frigate to learn how to play Eve in 0.0 is like sending would be soldiers to a war to learn how to fight one. The only thing you will learn is not to go their, an impression that may very well turn you off of ever going again permenantly. This is true, but you can only be taught so much by other players, and training skills honestly is useless if you don't know what they're for. And after you are taught as much as possible, that still doesn't make you skillful at PvP, it makes you knowledgeable at it. Knowing how to do things doesn't stop you from just freezing up in those first few PvP fights, you have to go out and fight to get the experience so you don't freeze up and do nothing when you're in an expensive ship. R A I N B O W S
Thornat	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:52:00 - [34] Originally by: Magnus Veyr I agree with the OP. The problem is that most new players are used to being forced to grind before they're allowed to have fun; "Must be lvl 85, must have gear and until then I'm useless", that sort of thinking. Another issue is that unlike most other MMOs this one requires some effort and putting one's brain to work, realising that this is more important than grind is just an alien concept to most people, as they're not used to it. I always have done my part in spreading that "knowledge" but you can only reach so many, and only a select few of them will a) believe you and b) can be bothered. Well there is a fine line between entering the, getting to know it, meeting a few people and than making the decesion to try out 0.0 and "Get in a T1 Frigate, enter 0.0 and see what happens". I mean I totally agree with you, I think players wait too long to try 0.0 and by the time they are ready (which really doesn't take that long) they are permanently scared of it. Im with you on educating people, but I would never advise a complete newbie to start flying around in 0.0 before you learned some basic concepts, skilled up a bit and at least learned how to actually use and outfit a T1 frigate. I mean hell, at least pull out the guns and shoot if you are going to brave 0.0 and get killed. All Im saying is that their is a natural progression in Eve, many do in fact fail to remove the training wheels and I agree this is a problem that leads to many of these misconceptions. Teaching people to learn the game and showing a little mercy on our newbies might go a long way to properly introducing them to the game. Personally when I run across a complete newbie in 0.0, I blow his ass up and than contact him and very cordial invite him to a conversatin and see if he is big enough to take some advice and maybe even learn a thing or two. Its how I have made many great friends in Eve.
Takamori Maruyama Amarr Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:54:00 - [35] Why I can't be a new player :(? Well not so new now...20 days played so far(I think)
Thornat	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:57:00 - [36] Originally by: Takamori Maruyama Why I can't be a new player :(? Well not so new now...20 days played so far(I think) Just out of curiousity, if you don't mind answering the question. How many SP points does a 20 day old player have roughly and how is your ISK wallet?
Takamori Maruyama Amarr Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:57:00 - [37] I got 950k SP and 25 mill isk.
Thornat	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:59:00 - [38] Originally by: Takamori Maruyama I got 950k SP and 25 mill isk. Well 25 million isk is certainly sufficient to affort a few T1 frigate losses. Have you braved 0.0 or low sec? Any PvP? Any PvP success? Whats being a newbie like in Eve these days?
Cpt Greagor Caldari Liquid Relief	Posted - 2011.08.09 15:01:00 - [39] Originally by: Thornat Originally by: Takamori Maruyama I got 950k SP and 25 mill isk. Well 25 million isk is certainly sufficient to affort a few T1 frigate losses. Have you braved 0.0 or low sec? Any PvP? Any PvP success? Whats being a newbie like in Eve these days? Thornat, remember: Originally by: Mr LaForge No such thing as new players. only new alts. R A I N B O W S
Thornat	Posted - 2011.08.09 15:03:00 - [40] Originally by: Cpt Greagor Originally by: Thornat Originally by: Takamori Maruyama I got 950k SP and 25 mill isk. Well 25 million isk is certainly sufficient to affort a few T1 frigate losses. Have you braved 0.0 or low sec? Any PvP? Any PvP success? Whats being a newbie like in Eve these days? Thornat, remember: Originally by: Mr LaForge No such thing as new players. only new alts. eeesh I hate this game sometimes.. You never know who your talking to

Alissa Solette	Posted - 2011.08.09 15:08:00 - [41] Edited by: Alissa Solette on 09/08/2011 15:08:39 In general I totally agree with the OP. You do not need any special (in-game) skills to be useful to a gang of the correct composition. However, the reason this "misconception" held itself so well over the years is mainly due to recruitment policies of the more successful corps/alliances. Most entities that are considered "strong" (read: worthwhile to join) usually have way more people applying then people that they actually want to accept. So what do you do in that situation? Exactly, you pre-filter your applicants by creating minimum requirements such as 15mil SP, a certain amount of ISK or proficiency at flying certain ship types. The recruiters are not creating these rules because they find it cool to exclude people (well, maybe a little)... they create the rules because they're in the nice position of being able to choose who can join. So if you have two equally experienced applicants but one has 10mil SP and the other has 45mil SP then you're gonna take the dude with 45mil SP. I know it sucks for the guy with 10mil SP (who may even be a way better PVPer then the 45mil SP guy) but it's sort of logical and understandable why most corps have such policies. I'd still encourage any noob to not despair because of missing SP. There are countless corps out there that don't have any arbitrary SP-requirements and will take anyone who is willing to learn and who is a team player (imo nearly the most important thing when looking for new members). In the end real life skills and experience is worth way WAY more then any amount of in-game skill points (which in itself is "unfair" to newbies but can't really be prevented unless the game is dumbed down so much that all form of player-skill becomes meaningless).
Hestia Mar	Posted - 2011.08.09 15:11:00 - [42] Originally by: Cpt Greagor Originally by: Hestia Mar Lets use a reasoned argument here - they have 100M SP and don't know what tackling is? Pardon? What I'm saying is that SP doesn't determine your skill. At equal skill levels, yes the pilot with more SP will be better, but you don't learn how to effectively tackle/pvp/whatever by staying in hisec and waiting until you can fly a ceptor. You learn by going to low in frigs and dying a lot. Whatever the reason you died was, you learn not to do that again, so when you do finally get your ceptor, you don't lose it over and over, you know what you're doing by then. For another example, lets apply this to sports, you can read every book there is about baseball and know everything there is to know about it, but if you can't catch/hit a ball, does any of that even matter? I know what you are getting at, but they called 'Skill Points' after all! However the argument about going into lo-sec and dying a lot is a poor one as well - I wonder how many games use 'join the game and get killed a lot' as a marketing hook? Not many I suspect! I seem to remember there was a thread running about a year ago, with a title like "In 2 years I'll be able to play EVE", and I still think that just about summed this problem up. (Anyway Cpt Greagor since you brought baseball up - why does a hitter on a 3-0 count take the next pitch as a strike? Swing the bat FFS!) H
Takamori Maruyama Amarr Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.08.09 15:12:00 - [43] Edited by: Takamori Maruyama on 09/08/2011 15:14:45 Edited by: Takamori Maruyama on 09/08/2011 15:13:21 Originally by: Thornat Originally by: Takamori Maruyama I got 950k SP and 25 mill isk. Well 25 million isk is certainly sufficient to affort a few T1 frigate losses. Have you braved 0.0 or low sec? Any PvP? Any PvP success? Whats being a newbie like in Eve these days? Well I make the calculations of how much ISK I will spent per punisher fitted, normally I spend 3-4 mill per punisher. I have braved -0.7 with RvB, gives a nice tension feeling, even with the good scouting that we had in that night.(That night I learned about the bubble ganks, since the commander explained everything about em, but thank god we didnt fall in any). PvP I love engaging large scale PvP, even if my frig get targeted by cruised and blow up in a second haha. PvP success I say that Im still learning, getting pointers from corp mates and from my enemy corp.(Thanks to then that we can have this fun war). As for being newbie on EVE sometimes I feel powerless in fitting a frigate, need some skills to fit certain pieces etc etc. But then I realize and say to myself , its just a matter of time. I plan to be specced pilot on frigates, don't wanna pilot anything else, just frigates. My wet dream is getting a Malediction Interceptor.But according to my calculation I will need 1-2 months to get enough skills to pilot it properly(Having just the basics is not enough for me) After I get enough experience join a good Mercenary Company.
Thornat	Posted - 2011.08.09 15:18:00 - [44] Originally by: Takamori Maruyama Edited by: Takamori Maruyama on 09/08/2011 15:14:45 Edited by: Takamori Maruyama on 09/08/2011 15:13:21 Originally by: Thornat Originally by: Takamori Maruyama I got 950k SP and 25 mill isk. Well 25 million isk is certainly sufficient to affort a few T1 frigate losses. Have you braved 0.0 or low sec? Any PvP? Any PvP success? Whats being a newbie like in Eve these days? Well I make the calculations of how much ISK I will spent per punisher fitted, normally I spend 3-4 mill per punisher. I have braved -0.7 with RvB, gives a nice tension feeling, even with the good scouting that we had in that night.(That night I learned about the bubble ganks, since the commander explained everything about em, but thank god we didnt fall in any). PvP I love engaging large scale PvP, even if my frig get targeted by cruised and blow up in a second haha. PvP success I say that Im still learning, getting pointers from corp mates and from my enemy corp.(Thanks to then that we can have this fun war). As for being newbie on EVE sometimes I feel powerless in fitting a frigate, need some skills to fit certain pieces etc etc. But then I realize and say to myself , its just a matter of time. I plan to be specced pilot on frigates, don't wanna pilot anything else, just frigates. My wet dream is getting a Malediction Interceptor.But according to my calculation I will need 1-2 months to get enough skills to pilot it properly(Having just the basics is not enough for me) After I get enough experience join a good Mercenary Company. Well you don't sound like an alt to me, so I will take your word for it. But what your doing is right on. I mean to me while I love the Indystrial stuff and I have a lot of skill points on it, its really just my cash cow often being more of a burden as I find it can be rather tedious and boring. Nothing beats playing Eve from a frigate you know you can afford to loose, it allows you to be daring and foolish, while simultanously learning. But your one of the lucky examples of how it should be done. You find some friends and join a corp, thats Eve, thats how you get the most out of the game.
Spurty Caldari V0LTA VOLTA Corp	Posted - 2011.08.09 15:25:00 - [45] It was a while ago now, but I started pvping before i could: - use MWDs (this was when domis did 10+km/s - use warp scramblers - use webs - even tell what ship what tackling me - use t2 guns - use t2 armor / shield resists I learned what each of these skills gave me by trying them out as they arrived. Thanks to training learning skills for a month, this took a while. There again, I was very proficient at killing belt rats and staying aligned to something so when a 30km/s crow entered local, didn't waste a morning ratting for a pvp ship only to lose a far more valuable pve boat. You really do have to do it to learn. Books and training are useless if you are a clueless tart on the field. Agree with Op Get out there, try it. You'll die Alot. That's why missions are good for noobs You'll also learn a lot more by doing too There's only One Zymurgist!
Takamori Maruyama Amarr Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.08.09 15:55:00 - [46] Originally by: Thornat Well you don't sound like an alt to me, so I will take your word for it. But what your doing is right on. I mean to me while I love the Indystrial stuff and I have a lot of skill points on it, its really just my cash cow often being more of a burden as I find it can be rather tedious and boring. Nothing beats playing Eve from a frigate you know you can afford to loose, it allows you to be daring and foolish, while simultanously learning. But your one of the lucky examples of how it should be done. You find some friends and join a corp, thats Eve, thats how you get the most out of the game. Well I enjoy frigates because they give me sometimes that old feeling of playing combat flight simulator.As for industrial activities, its all good when its just business, problem when politics join the room.
E man Industries	Posted - 2011.08.09 15:55:00 - [47] Originally by: Thornat And also, the point isn't to make money in a T1 frig, the point is to learn in a T1 frig, so when you get the T2, you don't lose it often and you can make money in it. Well I think what SilentSkills was saying was a two part answer. You cannot make money in a T1 Frigate in 0.0... <---period.... Next setence. "Its Unpractical". Another words. You can't make money, hence your only going to take losses. You aren't going to live long enough to learn anything... and you are likely to be even more confused since your going out their without even basic concepts, let alone the advanced knowledge just to get around in 0.0 required. I mean imagine jumping into a system and finding a bubble... What does a newbie know about a bubble.. nothing. what does he learn when he goes into 0.0 and see's a bubble.. that you get blown up. What does he gather from this experiance. Don't go into 0.0 if you don't want to get blown up. The point Im making is telling newbs to get in a frigate to learn how to play Eve in 0.0 is like sending would be soldiers to a war to learn how to fight one. The only thing you will learn is not to go their, an impression that may very well turn you off of ever going again permenantly. You don't need to make a lot of isk..your piloting rifters and getting skills and experiance as you play. With insurance and using t1 mods your rifter can be financed by a couple of rat kills. Learning in EvE takes a corp, yes a bubble killed you so ask in corp chat wtf happened and how to deal with them. Not advocating someone go solo and learn everythign themselves. ______ Hello WoW players. Look at your toon, now back to me. Sadly it isn't me, but if it wasn't simplistic pre scripted linear mono dimensional game you could look like me. I'm in a Paladin
Magnus Orin Minmatar Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.08.09 15:55:00 - [48] I agree 100% with the OP, and I occasionally roll an alt just to sit in the newbie help channel and try to tell new players this. The number one thing you can do to improve your enjoyment of this game on the first day you play it is find an open and accepting player corp that is into pvp in at the very least low sec, NPC 0.0 at the best case scenario. I moved to Curse within a week or two when I started playing Eve. I loved it. I lost a lot of rifters, often doing really dumb things, but I learned about safe spots, how to avoid drag bubbles by warping to celestials, how to us my D scanner to check for gate camps, how to watch for interdictors when you jump into a gate camp, and how to properly gate crash when you jump into a bubble. All these things I would have never learned in high sec, running missions. Sure it was difficult to make isk, and the logistics were tough, but that's what I learned Eve was. I primarily made isk by salvaging corp-mates wrecks in a thrasher, or ratting cruiser and frigate spawns. I even bagged an officer kill in a Wolf after living in Curse for about a month. The billion and a half isk that earned me kept me going in 0.0 until I was well established and could rat with BCs and Battleships. Sarcasm - Because i'm too far away to strangle you.
Morbidusk Yotosala	Posted - 2011.08.09 16:13:00 - [49] I agree with OP. I was fortunate when I started playing EVE. I was able to hook up with a 0.0 Corp/Alliance and have been in null-sec pretty much my whole experience in EVE. I've spoken with a few Vet players in RL who were rather surprised I was in Null-sec so early, especially since they themselves had little to no experience out of Hi-sec areas. I think it was a big advantage for me for numerous reasons. Some people don't like to be thrown into the ocean with the sharks and would rather be spoon fed certain portions at a time. I'm not really the latter so my intial experince was perfect for a player such as myself. I have less than 10M SP but my knowledge I feel surpases my actual SP. With the sisi server it allows new players a chance to try some things out on test servers to maybe gain some confidence in PvP/fittings etc. before heading out to more dangered waters. But thats the nice thing of EVE is that I have that option. I can take it a bit slow or if I'm feeling more froggy I can take a leap into the deep end. Regardless of SP, because in my case it came down to "who" and "what" I knew not my SP specs.
Wacktopia Sicarius. Legion of The Damned.	Posted - 2011.08.09 16:16:00 - [50] Biggest Misconception: - Hangar view might actually come back sometime soon. - Incarna will become more than a room. - That freaking DOOR will go. - Gallente/hybrid fix might actually happen.

Cpt Greagor Caldari Liquid Relief	Posted - 2011.08.09 16:19:00 - [51] Originally by: Hestia Mar I know what you are getting at, but they called 'Skill Points' after all! However the argument about going into lo-sec and dying a lot is a poor one as well - I wonder how many games use 'join the game and get killed a lot' as a marketing hook? Not many I suspect! I seem to remember there was a thread running about a year ago, with a title like "In 2 years I'll be able to play EVE", and I still think that just about summed this problem up. (Anyway Cpt Greagor since you brought baseball up - why does a hitter on a 3-0 count take the next pitch as a strike? Swing the bat FFS!) H I honestly no nothing about baseball, that was purely for an example. And the dying a lot isn't a key thing to do, but being new, it will happen, and that's how you learn. R A I N B O W S
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2011.08.09 16:24:00 - [52] When told by a pilot they cant pvp due to low sp I always ask: Can you fly a frigate? Can you put a speed mod, a warp disruptor and guns on it? Yes? Then you can pvp, you can solo, you can join huge blobs, you can join medium gangs. Yes many corps, including mine have a minimum sp, but a great many dont. Find your place and make your mark. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Magnus Veyr	Posted - 2011.08.09 16:25:00 - [53] Edited by: Magnus Veyr on 09/08/2011 16:26:08 Understanding combat/EVE is not a function of SP or ingame age. It's a function of putting in the effort and being able/willing to learn, ask questions and putting yourself to the test. Many players will never catch onto that as they're incapable or can't be bothered, some are capable of getting ahead and they really benefit a whole lot from being given a helping hand. As someone stated above; I too stroll around in help channel a lot or even make a rookie account for rookie chat, answering questions and all that. If I suspect/notice that one of them actually is capable of rational thought and logic I'll have a chat with that one and hope to help him on his way.
Hestia Mar	Posted - 2011.08.09 16:36:00 - [54] Originally by: Magnus Orin I agree 100% with the OP, and I occasionally roll an alt just to sit in the newbie help channel and try to tell new players this. The number one thing you can do to improve your enjoyment of this game on the first day you play it is find an open and accepting player corp that is into pvp in at the very least low sec, NPC 0.0 at the best case scenario. I moved to Curse within a week or two when I started playing Eve. I loved it. I lost a lot of rifters, often doing really dumb things, but I learned about safe spots, how to avoid drag bubbles by warping to celestials, how to us my D scanner to check for gate camps, how to watch for interdictors when you jump into a gate camp, and how to properly gate crash when you jump into a bubble. All these things I would have never learned in high sec, running missions. Sure it was difficult to make isk, and the logistics were tough, but that's what I learned Eve was. I primarily made isk by salvaging corp-mates wrecks in a thrasher, or ratting cruiser and frigate spawns. I even bagged an officer kill in a Wolf after living in Curse for about a month. The billion and a half isk that earned me kept me going in 0.0 until I was well established and could rat with BCs and Battleships. How would a truly new character know how to get a corp, which just happens to be a null-sec corp at that, on day one? If I remember correctly, my first day was spent think 'WTF am I mean to do/how do I do that?'. I did get into a corp within a week or so, but it was primarily an indy corp and I think that the Corp you do join sets the path you are most likely to follow, at least initially. Its interesting you say that to improve your enjoyment of the game on day one is to find a corp that is into pvp, but thats your way of enjoying the game; me, because I think pvp is a broken game mechanic, I do not understand/enjoy pvp (but that's a separate discussion lol) so I enjoy other aspects of EVE. H
Magnus Veyr	Posted - 2011.08.09 16:46:00 - [55] Originally by: Hestia Mar I do not understand/enjoy pvp (but that's a separate discussion lol) so I enjoy other aspects of EVE. While everyone is free to play as he likes and people have different interests and goals; not understanding PVP is a choice, nothing more. It's not some hidden magical knowledge that's passed down via heathen rituals or something, it comes from the will to master it, nothing more. So if you say "I don't know pvp therefore I stay away from it" you mean "I'm not interested so I stay away from it. If you actually meant "I would love to have a go but I can't do it so oh well" then you're doing it wrongÖ
Cpt Greagor Caldari Liquid Relief	Posted - 2011.08.09 16:51:00 - [56] Originally by: Magnus Veyr Originally by: Hestia Mar I do not understand/enjoy pvp (but that's a separate discussion lol) so I enjoy other aspects of EVE. While everyone is free to play as he likes and people have different interests and goals; not understanding PVP is a choice, nothing more. It's not some hidden magical knowledge that's passed down via heathen rituals or something, it comes from the will to master it, nothing more. So if you say "I don't know pvp therefore I stay away from it" you mean "I'm not interested so I stay away from it. If you actually meant "I would love to have a go but I can't do it so oh well" then you're doing it wrongÖ You left out the part where she said "I think PvP is a broken mechanic" R A I N B O W S
Molsan	Posted - 2011.08.09 16:54:00 - [57] I joined my corp before I even downloaded EvE. My corp helped a lot in learning and getting set up. I read a lot about eve before playing but was still lost. My corp mates made all the diffrence. I was out shooting people very quickly and well set up. But without the help of corp mates it would have been a much diffrent story. I agree the SP do not determine where you can fly and if you can pvp. But a new player really needs to join a good corp. The question is how to join a good corp. Every corp is "good" to the people in it(or why are they there?). Recruitment chat is nto the best, nor is the recruitment forum. How is the game to determin what corp is "good" for a player? I don't have a good answer. But if the community elped noobs out more and corps where noob friendly in general EvE would retain a lot more players that try it out.
Grey Stormshadow Starwreck Industries	Posted - 2011.08.09 17:25:00 - [58] Originally by: E man Industries One of EvE's barriers to new players and younger existing players is the perception you need x to play. Oh I need 60million isk before I can go to low sec. Oh I need a battle ship before I can pvp. I need 15m skill points to join a corp. EvEÆs community and CCP need to address this misconception. Because you donÆt need these things. A new player should be in 0.0 or low sec because that is when things are the most affordable. You do not want to go to low sec or 0.0 with a battleship to learnt he ropes...you want to learn the ropes in a t1 frigate. The most important thing for a new player to do is join a corp where they want to be that is friendly and active. A new player can do a lot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96b7Jk5xCTQ and http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1025677 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3riWfJ7CC-I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK03MwJ5yIc Skill points and ISK are not what hold people back...but people think it is. Experience holds people, the only way to get it is to go do it. A corp will help you in this. How do we get this message out to noobs though who still think they are ôbehindö. I may have more skill points but that does not mean you canÆt kick my arse. We need to tell new players this. See to many join eve and then leave because they think they need x to play. This is nto wow and you donÆt need to be level 80 with purples to play. You are valuable 1 day in. Do the tutorials, grab a ship and come tackle. EvEÆs barrier to new players is a misconception that players hold. We need to address that! Thanks for reading. Local ----- xx:xx N00b: Hey folks! xx:xx The Vet: Sup? xx:xx N00b: I was thinking... xx:xx The Vet: No you don't need battleship! Just go to 0.0 xx:xx N00b: Yes but... xx:xx The Vet: No your skills are fine! Just go to 0.0 xx:xx N00b: Oh so this is normal? xx:xx The Vet: Yes it is normal everyone think the same! Just go to 0.0 xx:xx N00b: I've never seen any game to be this real! xx:xx The Vet: Eve is real (.net) ! xx:xx N00b: Oh my god I can even smell the smoke. xx:xx The Vet: Oh cut the roleplaying - those guys suck devices. xx:xx N00b: No I mean it. There is smoke coming from my computer!! Is the station under attack?? xx:xx The Vet: ?? xx:xx N00b: You said this is normal??? xx:xx The Vet: what ? xx:xx N00b: What did you just scam me you piece of ratmeat what did you do to my computer??why there is smoke coming I only buy monocle??? --- This is one of the moments where we look at what CCP does and less of what they say. Innovation takes time to set in and the predictable reaction is always to resist change
jackaloped	Posted - 2011.08.09 17:28:00 - [59] Originally by: E man Industries .... àThe most important thing for a new player to do is join a corp where they want to be that is friendly and active. .... CCP makes eve cater to people who want to join a big gang and blob others. And it also caters to those who have no life outside eve. They advertise you are a "lone wolf" but really the mechanics are against this. CCP does nothing to promote solo or small scale pvp. Misconceptions about eve: 1) That a quality space ship game won't get more subscriptions than about 350k, so ccp needs to leave spaceships alone and work on clothing and mts. 2) That requiring people to commit lots of time socializing over the internet in order to play a computer game is going to be a big selling point. 3) That in a supposed sandbox no one would ever want to be anything but a pawn in a large alliance run by someone who dropped out of real life in order to play a computer game. Common conceptions of eve that are true and ccp should fix: 1)That most eve combat = brainless blobbing. 2) That you have to quit your day job and spare no time for a social life outside the game. 3) That if you want to play the game without spending large amounts of time making nice with the community, you are stuck shooting red x's. 4) That ccp is abandoning parts of the game that are fun for the casual player who likes solo or small scale pvp like low sec and faction war.
Baaldor Black Sail Anarchists Yarr Collective	Posted - 2011.08.09 18:35:00 - [60] Edited by: Baaldor on 09/08/2011 18:35:31 Originally by: jackaloped Originally by: E man Industries .... àThe most important thing for a new player to do is join a corp where they want to be that is friendly and active. .... CCP makes eve cater to people who want to join a big gang and blob others. And it also caters to those who have no life outside eve. They advertise you are a "lone wolf" but really the mechanics are against this. CCP does nothing to promote solo or small scale pvp. Misconceptions about eve: 1) That a quality space ship game won't get more subscriptions than about 350k, so ccp needs to leave spaceships alone and work on clothing and mts. 2) That requiring people to commit lots of time socializing over the internet in order to play a computer game is going to be a big selling point. 3) That in a supposed sandbox no one would ever want to be anything but a pawn in a large alliance run by someone who dropped out of real life in order to play a computer game. Common conceptions of eve that are true and ccp should fix: 1)That most eve combat = brainless blobbing. 2) That you have to quit your day job and spare no time for a social life outside the game. 3) That if you want to play the game without spending large amounts of time making nice with the community, you are stuck shooting red x's. 4) That ccp is abandoning parts of the game that are fun for the casual player who likes solo or small scale pvp like low sec and faction war. Justifying why not to do something....

Takamori Maruyama Amarr Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.08.09 18:58:00 - [61] Edited by: Takamori Maruyama on 09/08/2011 19:05:40 Hehe I giggle everytime I hear "mindless" blob. Well try to be the wing commander when its a "mindless" blob with different types of ships and outfittings out there. Calling the wrong target,wrong maneuver and you are condemning your entire fleet. Nothing against small scale pvp, actually I endorse it, gives more adrenaline. But calling large scale PvP as mindless, you sir have no idea about the subject. And the problem with EvE is how he receive naive new players. Those players expect : What those players get:
Zagdul Gallente Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2011.08.09 19:18:00 - [62] We replace T1 frigates for ones lost in PVP. We also encourage dudes to get into salvaging boats and help cleanup dudes who rat to split salvage for good iskies. There's also good isk in PVP when you kill someone, their modules can be worth heaps of isk. If you get a hero tackle, don't be surprised if the members of the fleet donate to your efforts. The last hero newbie rifter who caught a tackle walked away with over 300m in donations from fleet members for keeping the game fun for them. When you're in a fleet of 20-30 dudes and everyone gives in 2-5 mil (the more rich will sometimes do more) makes everyone smile. "Easy kills" "cheap ganks" nope... Null Sec alliances try to create a fun environment for new dudes so that you can build loyalty.
Molsan Sturmgrenadier Inc	Posted - 2011.08.09 19:19:00 - [63] Originally by: Zagdul We replace T1 frigates for ones lost in PVP. We also encourage dudes to get into salvaging boats and help cleanup dudes who rat to split salvage for good iskies. There's also good isk in PVP when you kill someone, their modules can be worth heaps of isk. If you get a hero tackle, don't be surprised if the members of the fleet donate to your efforts. The last hero newbie rifter who caught a tackle walked away with over 300m in donations from fleet members for keeping the game fun for them. When you're in a fleet of 20-30 dudes and everyone gives in 2-5 mil (the more rich will sometimes do more) makes everyone smile. "Easy kills" "cheap ganks" nope... Null Sec alliances try to create a fun environment for new dudes so that you can build loyalty. This! I know our corp has free frigates, cruisers, destoryers and meta 1 modules..to a corp these things are cheap.
Xercodo Amarr Xovoni Directorate	Posted - 2011.08.09 19:24:00 - [64] I knew a guy that was like 2-3 years old and fitted MEDIUM lasers to his raven Yes he played eve off and on but for all the time he WAS on he spent inside a station trading to make several billion he then bought a True Sansha tower and named it Fluffy but he had no idea how to use it several months later he joined our mission fleet with a Rokh with mega beams fitted to it im willing to bet he had no idea about tackling :P -------------------------------------------------- The drake is a lie
jackaloped	Posted - 2011.08.09 19:27:00 - [65] Originally by: Baaldor Edited by: Baaldor on 09/08/2011 18:35:31 Originally by: jackaloped Originally by: E man Industries .... àThe most important thing for a new player to do is join a corp where they want to be that is friendly and active. .... CCP makes eve cater to people who want to join a big gang and blob others. And it also caters to those who have no life outside eve. They advertise you are a "lone wolf" but really the mechanics are against this. CCP does nothing to promote solo or small scale pvp. Misconceptions about eve: 1) That a quality space ship game won't get more subscriptions than about 350k, so ccp needs to leave spaceships alone and work on clothing and mts. 2) That requiring people to commit lots of time socializing over the internet in order to play a computer game is going to be a big selling point. 3) That in a supposed sandbox no one would ever want to be anything but a pawn in a large alliance run by someone who dropped out of real life in order to play a computer game. Common conceptions of eve that are true and ccp should fix: 1)That most eve combat = brainless blobbing. 2) That you have to quit your day job and spare no time for a social life outside the game. 3) That if you want to play the game without spending large amounts of time making nice with the community, you are stuck shooting red x's. 4) That ccp is abandoning parts of the game that are fun for the casual player who likes solo or small scale pvp like low sec and faction war. Justifying why not to do something.... I'm not sure I am justifying my claims 1)socializing over the internet is not as fun as socializing in real life, and 2)that eve most eve combat involves blobbing. and 3)blobbing (waiting for it to form and roaming to find a decent fight) can be slow brainless and boring. I pretty much assume the reader agrees. From there I reach the conclusion that ccp should implement mechanics that increase the pace of finding good fights and not require people to invest so much time in socializing over the interent in order to play.
Acrior	Posted - 2011.08.09 19:58:00 - [66] Originally by: Magnus Veyr It's not some hidden magical knowledge that's passed down via heathen rituals or something Shut up, I had to slit a goat's throat and sacrifice a virgin (some hulk pilot) to be able to dscan.
Meryl SinGarda Caldari Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team	Posted - 2011.08.09 20:11:00 - [67] The biggest misconception in EVE is that EVE is nothing more than a spaceship game. Fly safe, Die hard
Jita mcheck	Posted - 2011.08.09 20:13:00 - [68] For me personally. Voice chat made all the diffrence. Listening to corp mates over teamspeak and being able to quickly ask questions as they occured was very helpfull. Also verbal explanations are far more clear than text. It is player experiance that determins what you can do in eve. Better to learn when things are cheap. PvP in cheap frigates before getting somethign expensive. Also newbi clones are cheap...players with 50mil skill point cost more if they get podded. Need a line here
Morgals Sturmgrenadier Inc Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2011.08.10 02:09:00 - [69] Originally by: Zagdul We replace T1 frigates for ones lost in PVP. We also encourage dudes to get into salvaging boats and help cleanup dudes who rat to split salvage for good iskies. There's also good isk in PVP when you kill someone, their modules can be worth heaps of isk. If you get a hero tackle, don't be surprised if the members of the fleet donate to your efforts. The last hero newbie rifter who caught a tackle walked away with over 300m in donations from fleet members for keeping the game fun for them. When you're in a fleet of 20-30 dudes and everyone gives in 2-5 mil (the more rich will sometimes do more) makes everyone smile. "Easy kills" "cheap ganks" nope... Null Sec alliances try to create a fun environment for new dudes so that you can build loyalty. Aye, every fleet needs tackles and a new player will not be new forever. Good corps realize new players are a valuable addition to a corp. So they take the effort to nurture them. --------------------- Sturmgrenadier Wants you! Actions speak louder than words. Let us show you=> SGHQ-PUBLIC in ga
Selinate Amarr	Posted - 2011.08.10 04:25:00 - [70] SP is important to PvP, no matter which way you look at it. Example: Give a new player a punisher. Note that I will be considering very new players with **ty support skills, so I will give the benefit of the doubt and do a **-fit frig since fully fitting a frig for a new player can be somewhat difficult, powergrid and CPU-wise. Just the basics, also, I'm not even considering that I could drop a little bit more isk and do a partial T2 setup and not even break 1 mil isk. With SP alone, right off the bat, I can do 50% more DPS and have roughly 50% more EHP than, say, a player who's been with Eve for 2 or 3 days. The difference is that great. Experience in PvP is also very important, arguably more important than SP, I'm not doubting that, I just get a little tired of hearing people say that SP is a useless measure of a pilot's worth in PvP. The thing about SP in this game is that as your character gets older, SP gives a smaller and smaller advantage (which is actually follows a logarithmic trend with time, considering how skill levels multiply the amount of sp required to train a skill up), so of course the 3 year old character shooting at the 4 year old character won't notice anywhere near as huge a difference as a 1 year old character shooting at a 6 month old character. Also, please throw some T1 frigs with brand new characters in them at me for tackling. It will be kind of funny to just pop them in 2 seconds and then warp off...

Hestia Mar	Posted - 2011.08.10 08:52:00 - [71] Originally by: Meryl SinGarda The biggest misconception in EVE is that EVE is nothing more than a spaceship game. This. +1
Jackson Millenius	Posted - 2011.08.10 09:09:00 - [72] RThe only solution is to not be exposed to that. I joined a null sec corp before my trial even expired. I was flying through the depths of fade in my caracal like a boss. All you need is a good attitude, a sense of humour, and be eager to learn. 'But I don't want to go among mad people,' said Alice. 'Oh, you can't help that,' said the cat. 'We're all mad here.'
baltec1	Posted - 2011.08.10 09:48:00 - [73] A nub who is only a few days old and wanting to pvp make the best kind of fighter tbh. They tend to be bloodthursty savages who will ram their rifters into anything and try to rip their victim apart with towels and dead cats. Tacklers like that are golddust. An older player is not as easy to corrupt
Darod Zyree Gallente Zyree Holding	Posted - 2011.08.10 11:12:00 - [74] OP is wrong, the biggest misconception for most is obviously how to spell the name of this game => EVE -Darod-
Cpt Greagor Caldari Liquid Relief	Posted - 2011.08.10 11:21:00 - [75] Originally by: Darod Zyree OP is wrong, the biggest misconception for most is obviously how to spell the name of this game => EVE If you're going to be an asshat and get all technical, it is EVE Online. R A I N B O W S
Zelda Wei Caldari New Horizon Trade Exchange	Posted - 2011.08.10 12:02:00 - [76] Quote: Biggest misconception in EvE That Mittens has any kinda clue.
Quebber	Posted - 2011.08.10 13:04:00 - [77] Those that can do, those that can't become politicians. As someone who has just brought 8 friends new to eve down to 0.0 within a 6 weeks, I am amazed at how well they are doing, each has found there specialization already, two of them love fast tackle/scouting started in tristan and rifter. Some of the others actually enjoy mining and killing npc's along with cruiser/bc fun.
Kaethe Kollwitz	Posted - 2011.08.10 13:48:00 - [78] Everyone creates artifical barriers in this game, the way the game is set up promotes this and perpetuates this: how much ISK is enough? how many SP are enough? how many ships in my fleet are enough? and so on. id like to see some mad reward system to try and break this down: spend 100m ISK on a ship that gets blown up and recieve a faction MWD! be on the killmail of player with >10m more SP than you and get a faction frigate! take on a fleet (win or lose) with >3 times your number and recieve a space *****! the barriers are self-created, the only people that can destroy them are those that create them.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.10 14:01:00 - [79] Originally by: Kaethe Kollwitz how much ISK is enough? how many SP are enough? how many ships in my fleet are enough? and so on. àthat's like asking how much is enuff dakka. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Fractal Muse	Posted - 2011.08.10 14:08:00 - [80] Originally by: Tippia àthat's like asking how much is enuff dakka. So... uh... how much is enough dakka? As to the OP: I went to 0.0 in my first month of playing. It was week 2 when I ventured out there. The first week I spent doing newbie tutorials and flying around learning what was what. After that, I flew out to 0.0 and stayed there for a long time. What did I do out there? I was tackle in fleets, a scout for roams, and a salvager the rest of the time. I enjoyed salvaging and I still do. Now, that's not for everyone, but for me it was fun. Plus it was extremely profitable. When I could fly a battlecruiser I went with another new friend (who had only a little more game time than I) and we would do anomalies together. At around the one month mark we hit an officer spawn who dropped an implant that wound up selling for 800 million. I was lucky in that the corp I joined allowed me to do that. Could everyone do this? Sure, but only if they wanted to and wanted to invest a little time into learning the ropes to do things right.

Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.10 14:13:00 - [81] Originally by: Fractal Muse So... uh... how much is enough dakka? Somewhere around the point where you make every particle in the universe collide with every other particle, and repeat that at a respectable rate every second. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
jackaloped	Posted - 2011.08.10 14:34:00 - [82] Originally by: Takamori Maruyama Edited by: Takamori Maruyama on 09/08/2011 19:05:40 Hehe I giggle everytime I hear "mindless" blob. Well try to be the wing commander when its a "mindless" blob with different types of ships and outfittings out there. Calling the wrong target,wrong maneuver and you are condemning your entire fleet.... Earlier you were claiming you were new to the game. Now you are going to tell me I have no clue? Yes FCs do have to think. But the majority of the rest of the blob just act as mindless drones shooting what the fc tells them to shoot. The eve mechanics make it so this is how the majority of eve combat works. FW was the only exception to this with the plex restrictions but ccp is apparently going to abandon that. Look at the videos. One says new players are a great asset. It is true. Why? Becasue blob warfare does not take skill, it just takes lots and lots of lemmings. The other video shows a couple of fail fit rifters doing ... well mostly nothing.
Takamori Maruyama Amarr Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.08.10 14:58:00 - [83] Originally by: jackaloped Originally by: Takamori Maruyama Edited by: Takamori Maruyama on 09/08/2011 19:05:40 Hehe I giggle everytime I hear "mindless" blob. Well try to be the wing commander when its a "mindless" blob with different types of ships and outfittings out there. Calling the wrong target,wrong maneuver and you are condemning your entire fleet.... Earlier you were claiming you were new to the game. Now you are going to tell me I have no clue? Yes FCs do have to think. But the majority of the rest of the blob just act as mindless drones shooting what the fc tells them to shoot. The eve mechanics make it so this is how the majority of eve combat works. FW was the only exception to this with the plex restrictions but ccp is apparently going to abandon that. Look at the videos. One says new players are a great asset. It is true. Why? Becasue blob warfare does not take skill, it just takes lots and lots of lemmings. The other video shows a couple of fail fit rifters doing ... well mostly nothing. Given that since I arrived on EVE I've been just doing PVP :P. Like I said before and you ignored, 1 vs 50 of course its a friggin mindless blob. 50 vs 50, now its based on which fleet have the skilled pilots, to scout, make jumps,hero tackling,baiting, traps etc etc. Or you think that everyone there will just shut down the damn ship speed and shoot like a turret?
jackaloped	Posted - 2011.08.10 15:22:00 - [84] Edited by: jackaloped on 10/08/2011 15:25:41 Edited by: jackaloped on 10/08/2011 15:22:56 Originally by: Takamori Maruyama Originally by: jackaloped Originally by: Takamori Maruyama Edited by: Takamori Maruyama on 09/08/2011 19:05:40 Hehe I giggle everytime I hear "mindless" blob. Well try to be the wing commander when its a "mindless" blob with different types of ships and outfittings out there. Calling the wrong target,wrong maneuver and you are condemning your entire fleet.... Earlier you were claiming you were new to the game. Now you are going to tell me I have no clue? Yes FCs do have to think. But the majority of the rest of the blob just act as mindless drones shooting what the fc tells them to shoot. The eve mechanics make it so this is how the majority of eve combat works. FW was the only exception to this with the plex restrictions but ccp is apparently going to abandon that. Look at the videos. One says new players are a great asset. It is true. Why? Becasue blob warfare does not take skill, it just takes lots and lots of lemmings. The other video shows a couple of fail fit rifters doing ... well mostly nothing. Given that since I arrived on EVE I've been just doing PVP :P. Like I said before and you ignored, 1 vs 50 of course its a friggin mindless blob. 50 vs 50, now its based on which fleet have the skilled pilots, to scout, make jumps,hero tackling,baiting, traps etc etc. Or you think that everyone there will just shut down the damn ship speed and shoot like a turret? I think 50 v 50 with relatively even odds (ie not 50 BCs versus 50 t1 frigates) takes a very very long time to find in the current eve mechanics. You will get many many more 50 v 1 mindless battles. It doesn't take allot of skill to "make jumps." Scouting takes some skill. Baiting? No I don't think bait and blob requires much skill. Edit: I see you are in rvb. I also participated in that and think it is good. But it's very existence proves there is something lacking in eve. That is EVE lacks mechanics that bring about quality small scale pvp so the players have to agree to special rules and arrange fights.
Takamori Maruyama Amarr Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.08.10 16:24:00 - [85] Originally by: jackaloped Edited by: jackaloped on 10/08/2011 15:25:41 Edited by: jackaloped on 10/08/2011 15:22:56 Originally by: Takamori Maruyama Originally by: jackaloped Originally by: Takamori Maruyama Edited by: Takamori Maruyama on 09/08/2011 19:05:40 Hehe I giggle everytime I hear "mindless" blob. Well try to be the wing commander when its a "mindless" blob with different types of ships and outfittings out there. Calling the wrong target,wrong maneuver and you are condemning your entire fleet.... Earlier you were claiming you were new to the game. Now you are going to tell me I have no clue? Yes FCs do have to think. But the majority of the rest of the blob just act as mindless drones shooting what the fc tells them to shoot. The eve mechanics make it so this is how the majority of eve combat works. FW was the only exception to this with the plex restrictions but ccp is apparently going to abandon that. Look at the videos. One says new players are a great asset. It is true. Why? Becasue blob warfare does not take skill, it just takes lots and lots of lemmings. The other video shows a couple of fail fit rifters doing ... well mostly nothing. Given that since I arrived on EVE I've been just doing PVP :P. Like I said before and you ignored, 1 vs 50 of course its a friggin mindless blob. 50 vs 50, now its based on which fleet have the skilled pilots, to scout, make jumps,hero tackling,baiting, traps etc etc. Or you think that everyone there will just shut down the damn ship speed and shoot like a turret? I think 50 v 50 with relatively even odds (ie not 50 BCs versus 50 t1 frigates) takes a very very long time to find in the current eve mechanics. You will get many many more 50 v 1 mindless battles. It doesn't take allot of skill to "make jumps." Scouting takes some skill. Baiting? No I don't think bait and blob requires much skill. Edit: I see you are in rvb. I also participated in that and think it is good. But it's very existence proves there is something lacking in eve. That is EVE lacks mechanics that bring about quality small scale pvp so the players have to agree to special rules and arrange fights. In the small scale pvp I agree with you 100%. The problem is the sandbox mechanic you need the right time, right place and the right players to create the experience and there is no way to separate it.Since there is no mechanism to lock the region just for that small fleets. And the game is very harsh with those who solo it.And to those who wanna go rampage(with the security status). They could beef up the low sec with the benefit of not losing sec status when you blow someone ship.Podding the rule would remain the same, since you murdered someone. In my PoV that would encourage the small scale pvp.
Jita mcheck	Posted - 2011.08.10 17:55:00 - [86] Originally by: Cpt Greagor He's right, you don't need purples to play EvE, blues will suffice. Okay that made me laugh. But yes, friends help. Friends offer advice, support, and yes more people to shoot other groups of people. As per how much Dakka? You can never have ot much dakka and the red wunz go faster. Personally I ran level 4's for a long time. Thinking I just need to get a battle ship. then it was I need to be able to fit the sniper set up posted as the alliance fleet set up(t2 guns). Then it was I need these battle ships and some float isk before I can move out. Eventually I eneded up in 0.0 and I needed none of that. I could have been here from day 1. I would have earned way way more experiance and been a much much better player for it. Now tell anyone that joins to just go out and do it....but do it with a corp because the advice the offer is priceless. Need a line here
Judge Ment BOOM BOOM POW	Posted - 2011.08.10 17:57:00 - [87] you don't need a ship to play EVE ONLINE anymore, just a POD There is NO P In PVP ------------------------------------- We judge others by actions We judge ourselves by intentions.
Sader Rykane Amarr The Dark Space Initiative Revival Of The Talocan Empire	Posted - 2011.08.10 18:07:00 - [88] Why dying in T1 frigates is universally toted as the "bee's knees" is something I never understood. If I wanted to get quick no loss pvp, I'de play an FPS.
Takamori Maruyama Amarr Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.08.10 19:21:00 - [89] Originally by: Sader Rykane Why dying in T1 frigates is universally toted as the "bee's knees" is something I never understood. If I wanted to get quick no loss pvp, I'de play an FPS. WoW or any "recent" mmo. They dumbed down the games way too much that's why people have fear of losing stuff, they got used with the no penalty , no consequence actions.
Abdiel Kavash Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2011.08.10 19:44:00 - [90] Originally by: Takamori Maruyama Originally by: Sader Rykane Why dying in T1 frigates is universally toted as the "bee's knees" is something I never understood. If I wanted to get quick no loss pvp, I'de play an FPS. WoW or any "recent" mmo. They dumbed down the games way too much that's why people have fear of losing stuff, they got used with the no penalty , no consequence actions. So true. When WoW first came out, I couldn't understand this. "So, what happens when you die? Do you lose items? Do you lose XP? No? You just pay a few copper for repairs? How's that supposed to work?" Full or partial equip drop was something commonly accepted in games before, as well as losing a (sometimes significant) chunk of XP. Nowadays it's gotten to a point when death is actually being used as a mechanic to travel faster, recover lost HP, etc. ---

Grey Stormshadow Starwreck Industries	Posted - 2011.08.10 20:11:00 - [91] Edited by: Grey Stormshadow on 10/08/2011 20:16:56 ...death penalty in EvE is ok. There could be better contract system for selling prefitted ships. Many have iskies, but are too lazy to travel around gathering part for ships and would prefer buying new ship fast. Currently browsing the contracts and exploring fittings isn't very convient. There should be more options you could check while searching (and of course more options seller could set for the contract). For example "pvp", "short range", "mwd", "armor", "buffer", "missiles". edit: ...and link to fitting screen with your skills applied so you can examine the ship, capacitor and resistances properly before you buy. --- This is one of the moments where we look at what CCP does and less of what they say. Innovation takes time to set in and the predictable reaction is always to resist change
Barbelo Valentinian Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.08.10 21:46:00 - [92] Edited by: Barbelo Valentinian on 10/08/2011 21:47:17 Actually SP does determine your "skill" - it is a roleplaying game, and the numbers pertaining to your character/ship are what determine your in-game skill. But EVE isn't just about the numbers, it's about the right kind of numbers - i.e. it's a game of rock/paper/scissors. There's a bit of player twitch skill involved, of course - multitasking, manual flying. But it's mostly he who has the biggest numbers on his side, and who understands the rock/paper/scissors of the situation s/he's in, who wins. However, the nice thing about EVE is that the SP numbers actually aren't all that difficult to get - it's true that in EVE, a vet pilot with maxed skills for a given ship is absolutely no different from a newbie pilot with maxed skills for a given ship (realistically, of course, one would be talking about frigates, cruisers and battlecruisers at this level). So SP is important, but since it "cancels out", what's really important in this game (for combat), is knowing how to pick your fights, which only comes with experience. Getting to know every ship in the game, its capabilities, what it can and can't do, and against what. And that only comes by going out and doing stuff and learning on the job, and that you can do from day 1. ***** "To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding
jackaloped	Posted - 2011.08.10 22:26:00 - [93] Originally by: Takamori Maruyama In the small scale pvp I agree with you 100%. The problem is the sandbox mechanic you need the right time, right place and the right players to create the experience and there is no way to separate it.Since there is no mechanism to lock the region just for that small fleets.... They already made mechanics to promote small scale pvp. Or at least they started to -Faction war plexxing. Unfortunately they only sort of half did it and it is now considered broken in need of a fixing. If CCP really focused on it to bring about great small scale pvp subscriptions would boom. Unfortunately I'm starting to think they abandoned it. They did a good update for Faction war in Apoc 1.5 and in that update they said they will do more. But then next we heard of 18 months, and now.... well it looks pretty grim.
E man Industries	Posted - 2011.08.11 01:28:00 - [94] Originally by: Grey Stormshadow ...death penalty in EvE is ok. I agree mainly because you get to choose it. If I fly expendable ships by death penalty is small I pilot a more expensive ship w/ implants my death penalty is larger. ______ Hello WoW players. Look at your toon, now back to me. Sadly it isn't me, but if it wasn't simplistic pre scripted linear mono dimensional game you could look like me. I'm in a Paladin
Jita mcheck	Posted - 2011.08.11 14:25:00 - [95] Originally by: jackaloped Originally by: Takamori Maruyama In the small scale pvp I agree with you 100%. The problem is the sandbox mechanic you need the right time, right place and the right players to create the experience and there is no way to separate it.Since there is no mechanism to lock the region just for that small fleets.... They already made mechanics to promote small scale pvp. Or at least they started to -Faction war plexxing. Unfortunately they only sort of half did it and it is now considered broken in need of a fixing. If CCP really focused on it to bring about great small scale pvp subscriptions would boom. Unfortunately I'm starting to think they abandoned it. They did a good update for Faction war in Apoc 1.5 and in that update they said they will do more. But then next we heard of 18 months, and now.... well it looks pretty grim. I agree with this as well. there is a big jump from pve to pvp in eve. Some small scal pvp would be nice. Even a duel system would help. Need a line here
Takamori Maruyama Amarr Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.08.11 14:57:00 - [96] I would kill someone for a DEV answer regarding the small scale pvp :(
Velicitia Gallente Open Designs	Posted - 2011.08.11 14:58:00 - [97] Not gonna read thru all the poasts (so this might've been said already) Originally by: E man Industries Edited by: E man Industries on 10/08/2011 17:45:49 One of EvE's barriers to new players and younger existing players is the perception you need x to play. we all know 'X' = 'intelligence' As for the other stuff. 60m SP -- nope, not even there yet BS to pew -- nope, not there either (seriously)... but I can throw together an atron, a virgin clone, and T2 modules... voila! a tackle frig! (alternatively, get cruiser/BC and have fun getting 'sploded that way) 15m SP for a corp -- this one's touchy, some corps are hard-asses about it, other corps not so much. Usually the "we want a min SP" thing is because corps don't want to deal with people not knowing the mechanics... e.g. "b-b-b-but in $GAME you can't do $THING, so it shouldn't be allowed here". For example, played perpetuum for a little while when CCP went full ****** with NEX/monocle/whatever. YOU CANNOT FLIP SOMEONE ELSE'S CAN. Say a perpetuum dude comes over here... yup, he'll get can-flipped fast. Anyway, if you're say at 10m and looking at a 15m "minimum" corp -- chill with them, and show that you're a good person, you know the mechanics, and you can "cope" with the missing 5m SP. You may just find yourself in their corporation... ========================= Originally by: CCP Games, 2010 Creation is so precious; and greed, so destructive. Your choices can make a diference
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.08.11 17:38:00 - [98] Edited by: Cearain on 11/08/2011 17:38:07 Originally by: Takamori Maruyama I would kill someone for a DEV answer regarding the small scale pvp :( It is always mentioned in the alliance tournament when they are sort of advertising eve. But they never really seem to focus on it by saying - "OK we have mechanisms that yield large fleet fights. But what do we have that brings about quality small scale engagements?" Occupancy plexxing in fw certainly appeared to be geared for it but they didn't quite get it. They dropped the ball by not letting militias know when plexes are being taken and instead left the npcs to defend it. They basically made fw plexxing into a pve activity. RvB is proof that CCP is not creating the mechanics many players want. I enjoyed participating in rvb but the ideally rules that yield quality small scale pvp should come from the mechanics of the game not gentlemen's agreements between the players. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1


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