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The Vengance (Amarr Assult Frigate)

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iu'ra	Posted - 2011.08.09 23:45:00 - [1] Using this AF I have not been able to defeat a jaguar. What would be the best anti-Jag fit ?
Dorian Tormak	Posted - 2011.08.10 00:07:00 - [2] Well... before you try and figure out how to beat a Jag... you might first try and figure out how to actually hang on to one should you actually end up winning. So here are my thoughts: MWD/Warp Disruptor combo: The Jag will most likely be a closeish range AC fit with AB/Scram and either a web or second shield extender. This means he will willingly come into scrambler range. Now if you beat him, he will use his AB to burn out of scrambler range... but that's ok because you can burn right back at him with your MWD. Plate/Rep setup: A 200mm (or 400 if it fits) gives you good ehp, while using a SAR will utilize the Vengeance's bonuses and give you not only superior ehp to a Jag, but also far superior sustained tank. Damage Mods: Either a BCS or damage rigs are needed. You want to kill him, not sit around tanking. A BCS + damage rigs would be optimal. Web: Increases dps, slows him down... why waste this slot on a cap booster? So basicly here's what I'm talking about: Lows: BCS, SAR, 200mm RT, ANP Mids: MWD, Warp Disruptor, Stasis Webifier Highs: Rockets Rigs: Adding damage rigs brings your dps up 160 overheated, so either those or some CCCs or armor rigs. (I prefer the damage rigs, but if not I would suggest CCCs to supplement your cap/tank without slowing you down) You should be able to brawl a Jag down with that by using Caldari Navy Thorn rockets and exploiting his low kinetic resist, he'll try to escape in which case you pull 'em back in. Hope I helped :D
Zattakar Amarr DaVinci Inc	Posted - 2011.08.10 00:41:00 - [3] A Vengeance can regularly beat a jag. I knew a pilot that flew one almost exclusively and swore by it. - -+Thousand Papercuts+-
iu'ra	Posted - 2011.08.10 01:59:00 - [4] I need to counter Alex Greye's fits .... http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/52845-Jaguar-Vengeance-Killer.html
Because Of Door	Posted - 2011.08.10 02:21:00 - [5] Edited by: Because Of Door on 10/08/2011 02:27:03 [Vengeance, ACs] 200mm AutoCannon II, Hail S 200mm AutoCannon II, Hail S 200mm AutoCannon II, Hail S Small Diminishing Power System Drain I Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Stasis Webifier II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Corpii C-Type Small Armor Repairer Damage Control II Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I Small Projectile Burst Aerator I Because you never expect the Spanish Inquisition... EDIT: wrong fit oops...
Because Of Door	Posted - 2011.08.10 02:28:00 - [6] Originally by: iu'ra I need to counter Alex Greye's fits .... http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/52845-Jaguar-Vengeance-Killer.html That is one of the most ridiculously overpriced AF fits I have seen, it is however lacking in officer mods... Looks interesting though.
Templar Dane Amarr Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.08.10 02:32:00 - [7] Originally by: Because Of Door Originally by: iu'ra I need to counter Alex Greye's fits .... http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/52845-Jaguar-Vengeance-Killer.html That is one of the most ridiculously overpriced AF fits I have seen, it is however lacking in officer mods... Looks interesting though. Any good vengeance [one with a web!] will kill that jag. The vengeance can hold him at 6500-8000+ and be out of neut range, and be so far into high-damage ammo range the jag will be forced to use barrage, which is pretty lol against a vengeance.
Dorian Tormak	Posted - 2011.08.10 02:40:00 - [8] Originally by: Templar Dane Originally by: Because Of Door Originally by: iu'ra I need to counter Alex Greye's fits .... http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/52845-Jaguar-Vengeance-Killer.html That is one of the most ridiculously overpriced AF fits I have seen, it is however lacking in officer mods... Looks interesting though. Any good vengeance [one with a web!] will kill that jag. The vengeance can hold him at 6500-8000+ and be out of neut range, and be so far into high-damage ammo range the jag will be forced to use barrage, which is pretty lol against a vengeance. Took the words right outta me mouth... AB + web + scram, armor tank, rockets, stay out of his neut range and he'll die easily.
Ines Tegator	Posted - 2011.08.10 17:20:00 - [9] With decent skills you can get Web+scram, AB, and single small rep running stable. Add a second rep for 150+ TPS burst and you should be able to wear down most frigates, or BCU of course if you prefer pew. Rockets can get decent range so if you can, stay in AC fallout as well and you are in good shape. The key is to plan to outlast.
Lee Janssen Internet Terrorists	Posted - 2011.08.10 17:39:00 - [10] Originally by: Ines Tegator With decent skills you can get Web+scram, AB, and single small rep running stable. Add a second rep for 150+ TPS burst and you should be able to wear down most frigates, or BCU of course if you prefer pew. Rockets can get decent range so if you can, stay in AC fallout as well and you are in good shape. The key is to plan to outlast. And then you die to an active jag, lol - Damn it, out of duct tape again.
Axel Greye	Posted - 2011.08.10 17:41:00 - [11] Edited by: Axel Greye on 10/08/2011 17:41:06 Originally by: Dorian Tormak Well... Hope I helped :D This advice helped me greatly thanks :D http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=13994765#mail
Th0rG0d Terminal Pharmaceuticals Inc.	Posted - 2011.08.10 20:03:00 - [12] Originally by: Axel Greye Edited by: Axel Greye on 10/08/2011 17:41:06 Originally by: Dorian Tormak Well... Hope I helped :D This advice helped me greatly thanks :D http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=13994765#mail Copro = failfit
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.08.10 20:30:00 - [13] Against the ever so popular extender fits (does anyone ever use anything else?) use Rage rockets .. stuff dies so fast it isn't even funny. Vengeance has become quite the little beast with the boosted rocks, still does low'ish damage on paper .. but application of damage has been much improved which is all that matters.
Templar Dane Amarr Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.08.10 21:38:00 - [14] Vengeance smokes jags
Axel Greye	Posted - 2011.08.10 23:52:00 - [15] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Against the ever so popular extender fits (does anyone ever use anything else?) use Rage rockets .. stuff dies so fast it isn't even funny. Vengeance has become quite the little beast with the boosted rocks, still does low'ish damage on paper .. but application of damage has been much improved which is all that matters. I 100% agree. Vengeance is very good now due to its ability to outlast other frigates, and maintain a steady application of DPS. doesn't need to be high DPS, just needs to be consistent while you tank. This was the reason I made my Jaguar fit in the first place, as I was having severe trouble breaking a vengeance before its rocket damage slowly killed me. I know my fit has recieved alot of hate, but it has worked for me, wellfit or ****fit, I have not lost it to a vengeance yet.
Dorian Tormak	Posted - 2011.08.11 00:06:00 - [16] Originally by: Templar Dane Vengeance smokes jags d00d... Still, one of the most popular Jag fits, AB/scram, MSE + GB shield booster, I think could beat your Vengeance fit... nice kills tho
Templar Dane Amarr Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.08.11 01:04:00 - [17] Originally by: Dorian Tormak Originally by: Templar Dane Vengeance smokes jags d00d... Still, one of the most popular Jag fits, AB/scram, MSE + GB shield booster, I think could beat your Vengeance fit... nice kills tho Care to put a friendly wager on it? I am online and in the bleak lands region atm.
iu'ra	Posted - 2011.08.11 01:08:00 - [18] I would put my money on Axel ... even though my pilgrim wouldn't ....
Templar Dane Amarr Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.08.11 01:29:00 - [19] Willing to 1vs1 any jag you guys want to throw at me.
Th0rG0d Terminal Pharmaceuticals Inc.	Posted - 2011.08.11 01:37:00 - [20] Originally by: Templar Dane Willing to 1vs1 any jag you guys want to throw at me. Little off topic, but how would a wolf stand up to a veng?
Templar Dane Amarr Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.08.11 01:48:00 - [21] Originally by: Th0rG0d Originally by: Templar Dane Willing to 1vs1 any jag you guys want to throw at me. Little off topic, but how would a wolf stand up to a veng? It would do more damage to one because of the falloff bonus, but would still get ****d.
Dorian Tormak	Posted - 2011.08.11 04:45:00 - [22] **** Templar, Axel Greye's Jag would beat your Veng... it has an AB whereas you've just got an MWD + web. More ehp + sick regen and good dps... the neut is the icing really. And I wouldn't mind a nice 1v1 but all I've got right now is a Howitzer Jag
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.08.11 12:15:00 - [23] In conclusion: His dad can beat that other guys dad and beer is best served chilled The minnie AFs are generally the best around, but not by much once skills are maxed out and like all the minnie gun boats, they are very lenient when it comes to "under-skilled" characters.
Ava Starfire Minmatar Teraa Matar	Posted - 2011.08.11 12:25:00 - [24] The common web/scram/AB/MSE jag with neut should be able to 1) close and neut the Vengeance's repper off, or 2) run away. Will have issues with buffer fit Vengeances with neut. The B-type booster fit will win vs dual SAR vengeance, as it will eventually run out of cap booster charges. However, vengeance with web should be able to disengage from this one. Nicely matched frigs, really.
Gibbo5771	Posted - 2011.08.11 12:43:00 - [25] if you want to beat his fit just gist b ab, scram, web, centi c type rep, bcu, dcu adaptive nano..for rigs you can aux nanopump and a CCC....ofc if it was a proper solo fit CCC would be stupid but CCC will perma run your rep....use your ranage to an advantage and pull to 7km where he cant neut you. use kinetic, watch him die slowly.
Axel Greye	Posted - 2011.08.11 15:13:00 - [26] Edited by: Axel Greye on 11/08/2011 15:16:28 Originally by: Gibbo5771 if you want to beat his fit just gist b ab, scram, web, centi c type rep, bcu, dcu adaptive nano..for rigs you can aux nanopump and a CCC....ofc if it was a proper solo fit CCC would be stupid but CCC will perma run your rep....use your ranage to an advantage and pull to 7km where he cant neut you. use kinetic, watch him die slowly. You mean like this? http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=13593968 Alternatively, people have tried going the Dual SAR / Cap Inject setup to Outlast me. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=13125677 And Alternatively Again, This pilot tried it with a command alt in system so I had to run him out of ammo and cap boosters. =P http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=12692496
Gibbo5771	Posted - 2011.08.11 15:25:00 - [27] Originally by: Axel Greye Edited by: Axel Greye on 11/08/2011 15:16:28 Originally by: Gibbo5771 if you want to beat his fit just gist b ab, scram, web, centi c type rep, bcu, dcu adaptive nano..for rigs you can aux nanopump and a CCC....ofc if it was a proper solo fit CCC would be stupid but CCC will perma run your rep....use your ranage to an advantage and pull to 7km where he cant neut you. use kinetic, watch him die slowly. You mean like this? http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=13593968 Alternatively, people have tried going the Dual SAR / Cap Inject setup to Outlast me. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=13125677 And Alternatively Again, This pilot tried it with a command alt in system so I had to run him out of ammo and cap boosters. =P http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=12692496 Eh, no? I dont understand what idiot cant stay out of neut range and high damage range of a ship with no web....there is literally no point in argueing about this again cause you know for a fact if that person pulls to 7km and uses kinetic and has a permarunnin rep, your ****ed. Your fighting a bunch of idiots on the dodixie undock, you honestly expect them to have a clue what theya re doing? you basically admitted it yourself that the idiot used links and still couldnt win.
Templar Dane Amarr Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.08.11 22:22:00 - [28] Originally by: Dorian Tormak **** Templar, Axel Greye's Jag would beat your Veng... it has an AB whereas you've just got an MWD + web. More ehp + sick regen and good dps... the neut is the icing really. And I wouldn't mind a nice 1v1 but all I've got right now is a Howitzer Jag My offer stands. If either of you are confident, I'm willing to contact a 3rd party to escrow our isk.
Uol Kafshaz	Posted - 2011.08.12 03:23:00 - [29] Ill put 20M on templar
Dorian Tormak	Posted - 2011.08.12 03:45:00 - [30] I would if I used a fail AC Jag

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