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Ender Black Lone Star Exploration	Posted - 2011.08.12 19:27:00 - [1] The Pod Goo Podcast is ramping up for another EVE Round Table debate, this time we take on Faction Warfare. If you missed the highly acclaimed Wormhole Summit, just navigate your browser to www.podgoo.com and download Episodes 20 and 21. What we are looking for is some Faction Warfare CEO's/Directors to assemble on our virtual round-table on skype and discuss this section of the game. Roleplaying corporations are more than invited. Not only will the Pod Goo listeners benefit from hearing the experts talk about Faction Warfare, but the participants can obviously use this as a recruiting tool and bully pulpit to discuss changes you feel necessary for the improvement of this area of the game. If you are interested in having your corporation represented, please contact myself at ender(at)podgoo.com or my co-host Lorkin Desal at lorkin(at)podgoo.com. You can also, contact us in game or through this thread. Also, just like the Wormhole Summit, we would like to entertain questions from the EVE Player base to submit to the Faction Warfare luminaries that will attend this show. Thanks, and we look forward to recording what we think will be one of the more interesting podcasts covering EVE Online.
Mystical Might Amarr The Imperial Fedaykin	Posted - 2011.08.13 14:18:00 - [2] When is the event?
Vordak Kallager Minmatar Autocannons Anonymous	Posted - 2011.08.14 02:15:00 - [3] You should try getting Militia leaders from all four Factions.
Damar Rocarion	Posted - 2011.08.14 05:37:00 - [4] Originally by: Vordak Kallager You should try getting Militia leaders from all four Factions. Militias dont have leaders...
Vordak Kallager Minmatar Autocannons Anonymous	Posted - 2011.08.14 07:09:00 - [5] Originally by: Damar Rocarion Originally by: Vordak Kallager You should try getting Militia leaders from all four Factions. Militias dont have leaders... Fleet Commanders, CEOs of the Major Corps, etc.
Veshta Yoshida Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.08.14 08:30:00 - [6] Originally by: Vordak Kallager Fleet Commanders, CEOs of the Major Corps, etc. Goddess NO! Majority of FC's have no inkling when it comes to the broken bits (ie. plexing), they are just in it for the pew and CEO's have a good understanding of the corp(s) but not necessarily of anything else. You'd ideally want people who have been through all the aspects, like: Caldari - Damar Rocarion (actually quite reasonable most of the time ). Minmatar - Sasawong (my persoanl scapegoat for everything that goes wrong for me ), alternately someone from CTRL-Q, HUANG or AUTOZ. Gallente - whomever fits the bill, imagine the Q-Cats are 'into it' but no clue really. Amarr - Any 'older' member from PIE, 1PG, KoTMC, ARETR, 0000, etc. (we have a lot Plexers-become-Killers ) In short: You don't want "leaders" or CEO's but the people to whom the aforementioned turn when they need advise.
Syekuda Hell's Revenge	Posted - 2011.08.14 19:23:00 - [7] Ender, if you really want to help faction warfare, then talk to the newb FW corps or in general militia that are not in corp. Some of those people need guidance. Hell lots of those don't know the basics of pvp or coms. This will help a lot. This type of thing as been tried in Caldari and it didn't go through. But I admit I do not know every single details of your MO and your goals but if you try to gather everyone under 1 roof and "OBEY MY COMMAND *****" kind of thing, it won't work...trust me. -------------------------------------------------- Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome. ISAAC ASIMOV
Hwong Jian	Posted - 2011.08.14 19:55:00 - [8] Ender, I'm going to give a brief breakdown of some of the larger problems in Faction Warfare/Militia. At least one of these problems is one that plagues the game as a whole (in my opinion). 1. Plexing - The only real purpose of plexing in Militias is to get fights that aren't about getting overwhelmed and outshipped. Go to a medium plex and your opponent can only bring T1 cruisers and down. Nice for "fair fights", but otherwise there is no point in plexing. 2. System Control - Serves absolutely no purpose. Plexing will eventually shift the control of a system from one side to the other. But, doing so gives no benefit to the winner or penalties to the loser. 3. At War - The only thing this impacts is who/what you can shoot without negative impacts from the game (sec status, CONCORD, gate/station guns). The Gallente are at war with the Caldari. Does that stop me from docking in an FDU station? Does it stop Gallente from docking in StPro stations? How much sense does it make for a station to say "You are our enemy. We are at war with you. Here's your docking clearance, enjoy your stay."? 4. Neutral Logi and Boosts - The myriad "known" issues aside, in FW the only way to get aggro from a neutral logi is to be aggressed to the target of the neutral reps. If you have a fleet with members of multiple corporations, only certain people may be able to engage the neutral logis. Neutral repping should flag you for the entire militia. As for boosts, it would be nice for them to implement a way to deny you boosts unless the booster was also in your militia. However, that would probably cause too much rage and be too difficult to implement. I don't plex much. I'm in it mostly for the pewpew. But still, Faction Warfare seems to have no point or purpose other than to give people a reason to shoot at each other. And, not even a very good reason, based on the amount of effort that CCP has put into Faction Warfare. And now I've given you a few topics to help start the discussion. Yay for me!
Ender Black Lone Star Exploration	Posted - 2011.08.14 22:33:00 - [9] Originally by: Mystical Might When is the event? We are planning to record in mid September. I would not do this round table without all four factions being present... That just seems wrong. Like the wormhole summit, I aim for his being a high level discussion that will draw out concerns that the ceos have that explains why they do things the way they do them.
Commander Razama Gallente Fangs Of The Federation	Posted - 2011.08.14 23:33:00 - [10] Hello, Yes, I am the CEO of my gallente Faction war corporation Fangs of the Federation I would like to attend, just Eve mail me in game and I will see what i can do. I have been in and out of Faction War for Over 3 years, i do not claim to be the best at anything but i do know my fair share of Faction war. I have contacted the other Major CEO's of both Gallente and Caldari milita and sent them a link to this thread to see if they might want to participate.

Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2011.08.15 03:19:00 - [11] I would suggest some of the following from the Amarr militia who plex Lost Incognito Condor Amarr
Deerin Minmatar Murientor Tribe	Posted - 2011.08.15 06:55:00 - [12] Getting one dedicated plexing leader from each side should do the trick. Caldari -> Damar Rocarion Gallente -> Val Erian Minmatar -> Sasawong Amarr -> Honestly Amarr do not really have a Sasa equivalent that I know of. According to eve api info Veshta Yoshida seems like the top amarrian plexer ...and good luck getting Damar and Val in the same environment without them going on at each other. ------------------------------------------- Die Amarr Die!!!
Asuka Smith Gallente Royal Black Watch Highlanders	Posted - 2011.08.15 07:19:00 - [13] TBH the various militia heads going at it will be even better than any real discussion.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.08.15 08:24:00 - [14] Originally by: Deerin ...Amarr -> Honestly Amarr do not really have a Sasa equivalent that I know of.... I (yes, it is I, good old Auntie Vesh) was ahead of Sasa and everyone else in VP/day and VP-total until I got sick of it and went paramilitary (read: Pew!Pew!) instead. Sasa just has a higher tolerance for boredom I guess
X Gallentius Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.08.15 11:11:00 - [15] Things that need fixing: #1. Remote Reps on FW entities that are below -5.0 and taking a Faction HIT. #2. Fix for Plexing in order for control of systems. Better mechanic make it mean something to control systems. OR give out good chunk of Faction LP for taking Offense or Defense Plexes. #3. FW alliances. There ought to be a way to get the role play alliances into FW. #4. Minnies and Gallente Should show up with same purple tags. Amarr and Caldari should also show up purple to each other. 2/3rds of FW is great (fights, missions). #5. Pirate faction ships are treated as T1 ships for plex entrance requirements. They should be treated as T2 ships since in all cases they are better than their T2 equivalents. This flaw limits the ability of poor (read: newer) players from having good fights. Things that are great about FW: 1. PvP is great 2. Missions ae lucrative. 3. System occupancy mechanics suck, but there are still fights to be had, and ship limited combat is great (in both missions and plexes). ------ One last thing: Please don't let the podcast be dominated by a crappy plexing mechanic everybody knows sucks. Only one portion of FW is implemented poorly, but otherwise there is great pew to be had and that's what 90% of the non-mission running alts want when they log on.
Aristeia Cersei SQUIDS.	Posted - 2011.08.15 11:21:00 - [16] Lets not for get about bubbles causing aggro that also cause faction standings loss for Militia members.
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.08.15 19:09:00 - [17] Thank you for doing this. FW is a great way to play eve but it has been neglected by ccp. Keep in mind talking about ôfixing faction warö, and talking about how faction war currently works in a broken state are 2 completely different things. Most people in faction war do not use the foundational mechanic of faction war - occupancy plexing. The heads of larger corps may or may not have any interest/knowledge about this. The problem with occupancy plexing I think can be summed up by this: "It took less than a week to achieve the maximum faction warfare rank (Divine Commodore), à.111 faction warfare complexes were captured à I did not kill anyone in the process..ö Ankhesentapemkah Posted - 2008.06.18 02:29:00 Because the militias do not know when plexes are entered many people fly a pve ship and run the plexes in backwater systems without anyone even knowing they are there. The other problem with plexes are the npcs. They force people to fly pve ships so they can tank their damage. Bu then since they are in a pve ship they donÆt want to pvp. Here is a proposal that discusses many of the issues: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1 Here is a list of issues that have been brought up by others: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1564233&page=1#1 -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Damar Rocarion	Posted - 2011.08.15 20:12:00 - [18] Originally by: Deerin Caldari -> Damar Rocarion ...and good luck getting Damar and Val in the same environment without them going on at each other. Why would I want to be in same comms with any member of FDU?
Seriphyn Inhonores Gallente Eleutherian Guard	Posted - 2011.08.15 20:48:00 - [19] Originally by: Damar Rocarion Originally by: Deerin Caldari -> Damar Rocarion ...and good luck getting Damar and Val in the same environment without them going on at each other. Why would I want to be in same comms with any member of FDU? Well, just because we're on opposite sides, doesn't mean we have to hate each other. It's just a video game, after all. ------------ Lum Gen Seriphyn Inhonores FDU Commanding Officer, Eleutherian Guard
Gunnyt31	Posted - 2011.08.15 20:55:00 - [20] Originally by: Seriphyn Inhonores Originally by: Damar Rocarion Originally by: Deerin Caldari -> Damar Rocarion ...and good luck getting Damar and Val in the same environment without them going on at each other. Why would I want to be in same comms with any member of FDU? Well, just because we're on opposite sides, doesn't mean we have to hate each other. It's just a video game, after all. that and im pretty sure both sides want FW to be fixed and can agree on the changes they want to see

Ammon Dei Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.08.15 22:32:00 - [21] Originally by: Damar Rocarion Originally by: Deerin Caldari -> Damar Rocarion ...and good luck getting Damar and Val in the same environment without them going on at each other. Why would I want to be in same comms with any member of FDU? Well other than Damar being well "DAMAR", the vast majority of the Caldari/Amarr/Minmatar/Gallente Faction warfare CEO's / Leaders / Plex Runners that I have had relations with are reasonable and can sit on com's together and discuss the issues that plague us all. I think this is a good idea and would be happy to be involved with such an event. [QCATS] Ammon Dei - CEO
Ender Black Lone Star Exploration	Posted - 2011.08.16 00:23:00 - [22] Originally by: Ammon Dei Originally by: Damar Rocarion Originally by: Deerin Caldari -> Damar Rocarion ...and good luck getting Damar and Val in the same environment without them going on at each other. Why would I want to be in same comms with any member of FDU? Well other than Damar being well "DAMAR", the vast majority of the Caldari/Amarr/Minmatar/Gallente Faction warfare CEO's / Leaders / Plex Runners that I have had relations with are reasonable and can sit on com's together and discuss the issues that plague us all. I think this is a good idea and would be happy to be involved with such an event. [QCATS] Ammon Dei - CEO I would hope so, but I also subscribe to the "If it bleeds it leads..." theory of journalism. :popcorn
Super Chair Caldari Hell's Revenge	Posted - 2011.08.16 00:41:00 - [23] I'm down for this, FW needs slight tweaking as far as plexing mechanics go but the overhaul needs to be into the occupancy being meaningful. Otherwise, I think system occupancy should be decided with a LoL match between caldari and gallente but thats just me X gal pretty much has most of the issues frackin NAILED. For all design purposes FW was supposed to be a place for new players and I think treating faction ships as t2 in terms of restrictions would really be a good place to start.
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.08.16 01:13:00 - [24] Edited by: Cearain on 16/08/2011 01:15:13 Originally by: X Gallentius Things that need fixing: #1. Remote Reps on FW entities that are below -5.0 and taking a Faction HIT. #2. Fix for Plexing in order for control of systems. Better mechanic make it mean something to control systems. OR give out good chunk of Faction LP for taking Offense or Defense Plexes. #3. FW alliances. There ought to be a way to get the role play alliances into FW. #4. Minnies and Gallente Should show up with same purple tags. Amarr and Caldari should also show up purple to each other. 2/3rds of FW is great (fights, missions). #5. Pirate faction ships are treated as T1 ships for plex entrance requirements. They should be treated as T2 ships since in all cases they are better than their T2 equivalents. This flaw limits the ability of poor (read: newer) players from having good fights. Things that are great about FW: 1. PvP is great 2. Missions ae lucrative. 3. System occupancy mechanics suck, but there are still fights to be had, and ship limited combat is great (in both missions and plexes). ------ One last thing: Please don't let the podcast be dominated by a crappy plexing mechanic everybody knows sucks. Only one portion of FW is implemented poorly, but otherwise there is great pew to be had and that's what 90% of the non-mission running alts want when they log on. I certainly agree that FW is the best part of eve. This fact is often lost when people only talk about the fact that fw plexing is broken. Nonetheless fw plexxing is the backbone mechanic of fw and any serious attempt to fix it/discuss it has to deal with it. But as it currently stands plexxing is pretty much irrelevant to fw. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Saidra Whitewolf	Posted - 2011.08.16 03:04:00 - [25] I will be there to represent FoTF (I cannot speak for the CEO), but I need a solid date and time before I will make plans to participate. I look forward to hearing what everyone has to say!
Damar Rocarion	Posted - 2011.08.16 06:29:00 - [26] Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 16/08/2011 06:29:17 Originally by: Seriphyn Inhonores Originally by: Ammon Dei Lets all be reasonable... Say the persons who on their part are responsible for "Nennamaila incident" and approving their corp members irl threats against Caldari militia members. Talk about putting a fox to guard the hen house. Why would anyone trust you to fix FW?
Lizzie Lefthand Marstolt	Posted - 2011.08.16 11:01:00 - [27] Add also: Gallactiga from (ex-)Gallente and First General from (ex-)Caldari/Amarr side /me takes popcorn out
X Gallentius Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.08.16 12:25:00 - [28] Originally by: Cearain I certainly agree that FW is the best part of eve. This fact is often lost when people only talk about the fact that fw plexing is broken. Nonetheless fw plexxing is the backbone mechanic of fw and any serious attempt to fix it/discuss it has to deal with it. But as it currently stands plexxing is pretty much irrelevant to fw. Plexing is 1/3rd of the backbone mechanics of FW. The other 2/3rds are 1) Free permanent war dec, and 2) FW missions.
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.08.16 14:26:00 - [29] Originally by: X Gallentius Originally by: Cearain I certainly agree that FW is the best part of eve. This fact is often lost when people only talk about the fact that fw plexing is broken. Nonetheless fw plexxing is the backbone mechanic of fw and any serious attempt to fix it/discuss it has to deal with it. But as it currently stands plexxing is pretty much irrelevant to fw. Plexing is 1/3rd of the backbone mechanics of FW. The other 2/3rds are 1) Free permanent war dec, and 2) FW missions. Right now I would say plexing is 1/100th of faction war. the other 99/100s lies in the free war dec and fw missions. But I think occupancy plexing should be the backbone of fw. The missions should just be a means (isk) to an end (occupancy for your faction.) I suspect that was the intent and that is why I don't think its wrong to say the mechanics are so badly in need of updating that fw is pretty much broken. Saying the war dec is a backbone mechanic is true in a very limmitted sense. Of course we need to have the war dec for fw to work. But again its hardly any great "feature" since any 2 corps or alliances can make a mutual war dec and it is a permanent war dec for very little up front money. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Hwong Jian	Posted - 2011.08.16 18:27:00 - [30] So, I started to type out a reply in this thread, then decided it might be better off as a thread of its own, and put it in Features and Ideas, even though it's almost entirely Faction Warfare related. Check it out, please, and let me know what you think. My FW/Moons thread I think it would be good for all of the militias, especially since we would then become more invested in our systems. Then we will have something tangible, instead of being roving gangs of (somewhat) limited pirates.

Vim Spiritus Draconis	Posted - 2011.08.17 01:49:00 - [31] FW is based on the empires being at, if not war atleast very sour relations. How long can the ever unfolding main story of eve handle FW? Will the empires never sit down and get back to business as usual; returning lowsec to its past and militia members to sit around the campfire telling stories on how they fought back in the days. FW should pay more for pvp and less for missions. Victory points earns you mission points? Plex to be allowed to mission, that should deal with the farm elements to an extent. However compared to highsec incursions that the above average bear in smarts figured out how to monetize on during day one or possibly two, what does fw realy pay nowdays for the risk that was supposed to go into it? the lp reward buff didnt help that area; near all fw rewards don't sell enough quantity(eg, its items that don't get destroyed at the pace they are generated) Here we might look at incursions and then back at the plex system. With combat sites paying each member in 7-9 man gang but not paying you if you gank a 3 man gang in a victory site meant for 7-9, ofc capturing it with a 3 man gang shouldnt pay you much either. But then we are faced with killmails>rewards and non militia groupings. We are in a sandbox to some extent after all. Occupancy must mean something, the moon goo tied to vp is a decent idea but would likely be very exploitable and not realy balanced looking at regional moon worth etc. What should it tie into? better rewards is meh and punishes the losing side to much. Solve this riddle to something that people will actually go lose 3 ships in a single fight because its that important. Supercaps is a problem, the ability to deploy just a lowly carrier in a fight is nothing but a game of who rings the batphone first, deployng a counter carrier ? means yours more likely to get suuuupered. How about agressing with a supercap in lowsec is a violation of yulai convetion getting concord on its behind; they are after all supercaps and might make empires nervous if used in actual combat that close to their turf. regular dreads/carriers is much less of a problem since they are perceived as actually fightable, without dialing 1-1-2-R-A-I-D-E-N and setting things up for a specific time and date. Excuse my random idea sprouting, its quite late and while I hope to come across somewhat coherent the realization is that might not be the case. A sidenote is ofc that fw is supposed to be nothing but a craddle, where young players can go to pickup some training, where they can form friendships and a group that will then take the step outside fw towards nullsec where the real(tm) pvp happens. Another sidenote is my reason for being here originaly: being blinky is a pain, gcc is a pain and so on, fw seemed like a perfect chooice to get to shoot at things without that and without "wakeup at 5 go this cta, small gang is 50, godesses-nullsec-pvp-is-the-best" idiocy, I have maintained a decent sec record while getting some realy good piratey ransoms oppurtunites that leaves a glow on my face shining far better then a killmail, even if its ******ed ransoming frigates for 200k isk >_< Sadly my romantic idea that fw would include a friendly banterish atmosphere was crushed in short order, like everywhere else grudgers will keep grudging and rearhats will be rearhats. Peace.
Damar Rocarion	Posted - 2011.08.17 04:02:00 - [32] Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 17/08/2011 04:07:16 Originally by: Vim supercaps and might make empires nervous if used in actual combat that close to their turf. regular dreads/carriers is much less of a problem since they are perceived as actually fightable, without dialing 1-1-2-R-A-I-D-E-N and setting things up for a specific time and date. Whines a person from an FDU corp which has their own titan bridge and neutral carriers/logistics to help gallente fleets? Priceless. I quess we know now whose Nyx it was that got destroyed in Harroule...
Scuttle Bunny Amarr	Posted - 2011.08.17 04:17:00 - [33] i want to be on the gallente side And now....The sound.... The sound of Jupiter!! "wahhhaaalllwahhaaalllaawwahhallawahh"
Vim Spiritus Draconis	Posted - 2011.08.17 08:08:00 - [34] Edited by: Vim on 17/08/2011 08:20:55 Originally by: Damar Rocarion Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 17/08/2011 04:07:16 Whines a person from an FDU corp which has their own titan bridge and neutral carriers/logistics to help gallente fleets? Priceless. I quess we know now whose Nyx it was that got destroyed in Harroule... Neutral logistics in some cases is purely thanks to the implementation of standing hits. I was for a long period of time convinced(read: its obvious it works this way) neutral logistics flagged themselves to the entire opposing side of fw, as one would expect. sadly thats another mechanic that might need a big tad of a pokearound. If raiden have destroyed a nyx in harroule all the more power to them, I was giving raiden as an example since they are somewhat easy from my pov to get hold off, maybe I just have gone: "Dial 1-1-2-Na-na-na-na-na-na-na" to keep named entites out. Now do you have anything in actuality to add to a discussion are you this limited in your social interaction and promoting of finnish stereotypes?
Veshta Yoshida Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.08.17 08:32:00 - [35] Supercapitals are a pain in the arse, has nothing to do with FW but rather with low-sec in general. Same goes for the 'neutral' alts that seem to be everywhere, CCP knows about it but probably can't sort it due to the archaic standings/aggression system so instead they chose to ignore it (kind of like FW actually ). Easy Fix: Remove immunity when on foreign soil (ie. not ones own sovereignty) and adopt the segregated drone bays to limit normal drone spam. Capitals are common and cheap enough to be a non-issue. Their 'power' is easily negated by smart FC'ing and even small corps have caps of their own.
Damar Rocarion	Posted - 2011.08.17 09:52:00 - [36] Originally by: Vim But please keep your rp out of it because someone so limited and bitter in his social interactions cannot exist other then as an imaginary persona. Oh but such persons exist in great numbers, in the ranks of Gallentes "We are all casual dudes, only in for fun pewpew" people. What other explanation there is that after my last hiatus and return to game I was immediately labeled as dog**** and pedophile among other terms. I figured it was rp too but turns out they were completely serious about it. But of course in your twisted mind the wronged party which returns the favor by (unsurprisingly) refusing to be polite around you, is the one who is to blame.
Vim Spiritus Draconis	Posted - 2011.08.17 11:06:00 - [37] Originally by: Damar Rocarion Originally by: Vim But please keep your rp out of it because someone so limited and bitter in his social interactions cannot exist other then as an imaginary persona. Oh but such persons exist in great numbers, in the ranks of Gallentes "We are all casual dudes, only in for fun pewpew" people. What other explanation there is that after my last hiatus and return to game I was immediately labeled as dog**** and pedophile among other terms. I figured it was rp too but turns out they were completely serious about it. But of course in your twisted mind the wronged party which returns the favor by (unsurprisingly) refusing to be polite around you, is the one who is to blame. Its the old circle of life then, one grudge leaves to another that then grudges an unknowing party which then feels this damar dude is a real hose and hence I respond in kind eversince. I do not know any other side of you since I came late into it all and first encounters lead to my general hostility, ofc aided by others already solidified view and happyness to share it. Not knowing where it all started, from eithers pov; and discussing that will only lead to more entrenchment of positions, I will do my best to respond in the future without resorting to lowly assaults on you or your affiliates person(s) hoping for a better future.
Hidden Snake Caldari Inglorious-Basterds	Posted - 2011.08.17 12:58:00 - [38] Originally by: Vordak Kallager You should try getting Militia leaders from all four Factions. All of the are sociopaths and freaks .... right?
Damar Rocarion	Posted - 2011.08.17 13:24:00 - [39] Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 17/08/2011 13:26:06 Originally by: Hidden Snake All of the are sociopaths and freaks .... right? In the war he was, mere Lieutenant Colonel there. In army he would have been at home, had he been made to do what he was told. But he always kept his own head, followed his own path, obeyed he not the word of other, Thus were his troops destined to be of different kind. (Translated from "Stories of ensign Stool" chapter "Otto Von Fieandt" by J.L Runeberg, originally translated from Swedish to Finnsh by Paavo Cajander)
Gallactica Gallente Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly	Posted - 2011.08.17 13:45:00 - [40] As a ex-long term FW'er i'd be happy to provide any input if requested.

Damar Rocarion	Posted - 2011.08.17 14:33:00 - [41] Originally by: Vim Not knowing where it all started, from eithers pov; and discussing that will only lead to more entrenchment of positions. Then let me tell you: It started when Caldari first acquired foothold in Placid. Gallente had been on their high-horse since start of FW since their side saw themselves as "l33t outnumbered uber-pvp god side" since they would be "fighting the hord3s of n00bz from Caldari militia". Now, the fact that plexing fleets were succeeding against opposition did not go down well with this attitude. So caldari had to be exploiting. All the system capture was done purely by cheating and using cloaking ships to run timer (back in the day it was possible and it was actually gallentes who did that, not Caldari). So on to the forums the gallente went and spared no effort to ridicule Caldari plexers, you know, because actually going against Caldari on plexing front would be "carebear pve" and they would rather sit in Tama and camp Nourvukaiken gate. So this continued until every system was occupied and for some reason, I dont know why, your side singled me (mere footsoldier) out as the sole inventor of "exploits" which I had never done. On the other hand, gallente side was happy to continue using buggy mechanism which culminated in "Nennamaila incident" where a fleet of Qcats got their asses handed over to them by two caracals (Me and Bad Messenger) and plex rats. That is, until Ammon Dei did the usual thing gallentes did back then and used a bug invented by Val Erian to turn the caldari npcs to fire on me and Bad Messenger. This forced us to leave the plex and disengage, with 7 killmails and no lossmails for PERVS. Gallentes then ganked other people who entered system or had tried to help us and claimed they won a great victory in the system against two of the top pvp'ers of Caldari militia. They also said that I had shot my own npcs and that was the sole reason for npc aggro shifting and was not result of anything they had done. However, systems still didnt flip back until Gallentes had cried enough and CCP reworked mechanisms so that occupied systems with hostile sovereignty would get a ton of plexes every downtime. This effectively caused the caldari mechanism which kept systems occupied for 10 months to overload because there was no way to keep up with system which spawned between 5-20 plexes to every system at every downtime. This culminated in "Dominion Debacle" where two systems were lost in as many hours. Qcats of course went to brag again that they had won a great victory and CCP screwing the servers up on multiple reboots (thus spawning more plexes to systems with every failed start-up) was no different from a normal downtime which occurred. Weirdly enough, PERVS had kept both OMS and Heydieles occupied against gallente quite handily. But as Bad Messenger said "I took every plex in OMS, it was uncontested and went to bed. When I woke up in the morning, system was lost". And this in the mind of Chatgris and others is "just like regular downtime". This was, understandably, last straw for PERVS who were fully aware of bugged mechanisms CCP was not going to fix and abandoned FW soon afterwards. So now we are here. Plexing mechanism which massively favors the defender and where hard work of system capture which took weeks can and will be undone by a single patch deployment which ****s the servers inside out and allows other side to ninja capture system in two hours. So congratulations, you finally won the plexing war. Not with effort but by whining long enough so you could "plex casually and still achieve something" as one of you once said. Could you perhaps have CCP install the original version now?
Commander Razama Gallente Fangs Of The Federation	Posted - 2011.08.17 14:41:00 - [42] Originally by: Damar Rocarion Originally by: Vim But please keep your rp out of it because someone so limited and bitter in his social interactions cannot exist other then as an imaginary persona. Oh but such persons exist in great numbers, in the ranks of Gallentes "We are all casual dudes, only in for fun pewpew" people. What other explanation there is that after my last hiatus and return to game I was immediately labeled as dog** and pedophile among other terms. I figured it was rp too but turns out they were completely serious about it. But of course in your twisted mind the wronged party which returns the favor by (unsurprisingly) refusing to be polite around you, is the one who is to blame. Dude you were acting like a troll when you came back to Faction War and I remember the whole "pedophile" incident we called you that over 2 years ago Damar holy ** let it go! There must be some truth to it if you held on to that so damn long.
Hunter Bowman	Posted - 2011.08.17 14:52:00 - [43] Originally by: Damar Rocarion This was, understandably, last straw for PERVS who were fully aware of bugged mechanisms CCP was not going to fix and abandoned FW soon afterwards. So now we are here. Plexing mechanism which massively favors the defender and where hard work of system capture which took weeks can and will be undone by a single patch deployment which ****s the servers inside out and allows other side to ninja capture system in two hours. So congratulations, you finally won the plexing war. Not with effort but by whining long enough so you could "plex casually and still achieve something" as one of you once said. Could you perhaps have CCP install the original version now? well let me start by saying you started with +100 cool points. Now lets break down your cool points after i read your post: -1 for wall of text. Not doing too bad at this point +99 cool points is kinda ok i guess -2 for using l33t and n00bz Still up 97 points, ok what ever -2 for obiously not having a life Ouch ur down to 95 points -95 for being a tool Oh snap, your at 0 which means i must take your Man Card also. Please hand in your tools, testicals, and member to the nearest hardware store near you. P.S. Really, you need to get out!
Hwong Jian	Posted - 2011.08.17 17:55:00 - [44] Originally by: Hunter Bowman well let me start by saying you started with +100 cool points. Now lets break down your cool points after i read your post: -1 for wall of text. Not doing too bad at this point +99 cool points is kinda ok i guess -2 for using l33t and n00bz Still up 97 points, ok what ever -2 for obiously not having a life Ouch ur down to 95 points -95 for being a tool Oh snap, your at 0 which means i must take your Man Card also. Please hand in your tools, testicals, and member to the nearest hardware store near you. P.S. Really, you need to get out! Hunter Bowman, on behalf of the non-Jersey Shore watching EVE population, I must ask you to refrain from posting for a period of no less than 1 week. Your post, while appreciated in spirit, is a failure of an attempt to troll and exhibits levels of douchebaggery usually only seen by men wearing pink t-shirts two sizes too small with a v-neck that goes down to their navels. For the safety of all persons involved, and to reduce the risk of your orange spray-tan infecting the rest of EVE, we need you to take a few steps back, away from the computer, and preferrably into on-comnig traffic.
Chris Audacity	Posted - 2011.08.17 17:59:00 - [45] Originally by: X Gallentius Edited by: X Gallentius on 16/08/2011 05:28:14 Things that need fixing: #1. Remote Reps on FW entities that are below -5.0 and taking a Faction HIT. #2. Fix for Plexing in order for control of systems. Better mechanic make it mean something to control systems. OR give out good chunk of Faction LP for taking Offense or Defense Plexes. #3. FW alliances. There ought to be a way to get the role play alliances into FW. #4. Minnies and Gallente Should show up with same purple tags. Amarr and Caldari should also show up purple to each other. #5. Pirate faction ships are treated as T1 ships for plex entrance requirements. They should be treated as T2 ships since in all cases they are better than their T2 equivalents. This flaw limits the ability of poor (read: newer) players from having good fights. Things that are great about FW: 1. PvP is great 2. Missions ae lucrative. 3. System occupancy mechanics suck, but there are still fights to be had, and ship limited combat is great (in both missions and plexes). ------ One last thing: Please don't let the podcast be dominated by a crappy plexing mechanic everybody knows sucks. Only one portion of FW is implemented poorly, but otherwise there is great pew to be had and that's what 90% of the non-mission running alts want when they log on. If those fixes could be done it would massively improve things on the FW side. Only other thing I would add is that if your at war with another state then you shouldnt be able to dock in that states stations (makes sense to me).
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.08.17 18:27:00 - [46] This thread reminds me why I fight on the Amarr Minmatar front. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
David Devant Gallente CTRL-Q	Posted - 2011.08.18 07:32:00 - [47] Edited by: David Devant on 18/08/2011 07:40:46 I'll come provided it isn't at some silly time. Quite want to hear what Veshta and Mystical sound like... Hit me up in game David Devant CTRL-Q CEO and euro TZ FC
Damar Rocarion	Posted - 2011.08.21 06:00:00 - [48] Originally by: Hunter Bowman Really, you need to get out! Despite being a troll, I respond. Last time that happened, it caused widespread smacking and forum posting from Gallente about person being a n00b and loser for focusing on things like studies and so on. Of course in Gallente mind someone doing couple of hours of plexing per downtime is a sad bastard but when they have a militia person doing at least 12h of plexing a day, he is most praiseworthy person Anyway, i'm starting as video editor for national broadcasting company next week so my downtime presence should become limited from now on. Gallentes can now start their usual smack that this is either a) flat out lie b) claim victory in the plexing war despite losing two systems so far c) that I only took the job because I could not win them in said plexing war where they lost two systems and needed a gracious exit. Take your pick.
Mongo Edwards	Posted - 2011.08.22 05:28:00 - [49] wow so much hate on the gal/caldari front. I'd like to parrot these issues: 1) FW occupancy is meaningless 2) Super Caps ruining normal cap fights 3) Pirate factions treated as T1 for plexing sake. 4) The whole orbiting a button thing for running plexes sucks and doesn't lead to good fights in plexes.
Texcoyo Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.08.22 06:35:00 - [50] Originally by: Mongo Edwards wow so much hate on the gal/caldari front. No its just Dramar and his inability to have fun playing eve. Most of us Gallente/Caldari don't mind each other, its just those few bad apples that can't break free of the RP.

Name Family Name	Posted - 2011.08.22 07:24:00 - [51] Originally by: Veshta Yoshida Originally by: Vordak Kallager Fleet Commanders, CEOs of the Major Corps, etc. Goddess NO! Majority of FC's have no inkling when it comes to the broken bits (ie. plexing), they are just in it for the pew and CEO's have a good understanding of the corp(s) but not necessarily of anything else. You'd ideally want people who have been through all the aspects, like: Caldari - Damar Rocarion (actually quite reasonable most of the time ). Minmatar - Sasawong (my persoanl scapegoat for everything that goes wrong for me ), alternately someone from CTRL-Q, HUANG or AUTOZ. Gallente - whomever fits the bill, imagine the Q-Cats are 'into it' but no clue really. Amarr - Any 'older' member from PIE, 1PG, KoTMC, ARETR, 0000, etc. (we have a lot Plexers-become-Killers ) In short: You don't want "leaders" or CEO's but the people to whom the aforementioned turn when they need advise. Having been in Amarr FW from day one until about two years ago on various alts, my knowledge may be a tad outdated (well - from losely following various FW threads, not much has changed), but why would you pick someone still engaging in a broken game mechanic over someone who doesn't anymore because of just that? No offense intended, but even back then, I regarded people like Sasawong as some kind of autistic insomniacs, sitting in a rusty car wreck without wheels every waking hour and going "VROOOOOM! VROOOOOOM!" all day long. After realizing how broken plexing/occupancy is, any normal, reasonable person would just quit doing it - someone still extensively engaging in said activities after years (does he still do it? ) is clearly not a good representative.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.08.22 07:42:00 - [52] Originally by: Name Family Name ... Because like me he has also gone para-military. He still semi-afk's on buttons but seem to be quite aggressive when it comes to putting gangs together as well as joining them. The only 'pure' plexers left are alts being used to farm standings and new-comers who want quick access to the ISK faucet that is FW missions, as far as I know.
Markius TheShed Minmatar Murientor Tribe	Posted - 2011.08.22 09:32:00 - [53] I've been in FW for a year now and I've seen the good and bad of the plex war many time. My first few months were spent having great fun chasing around the guys from 1PG and PIE inc and it was a fantastic PVP learning curve and produced some epic 1v1 plex fights. Then someone started multi boxing 10 clients and using vigils' to capture the Eugidi constellation, I not totally sure but I think 1PG refused to be part of the exploiting and stopped plexing As everyone knows it takes 2 to tango and everyone needs a enemy to fight But the broken and exploitable FW mechanic has created to much bad blood. There are no more GF GF in plexing it's all Alt's and faction ship blobs, How much longer can CCP ignore FW? (And please come back and fight 1PG)
Name Family Name	Posted - 2011.08.22 10:18:00 - [54] Edited by: Name Family Name on 22/08/2011 10:30:31 Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Originally by: Name Family Name ... Because like me he has also gone para-military. He still semi-afk's on buttons but seem to be quite aggressive when it comes to putting gangs together as well as joining them. The only 'pure' plexers left are alts being used to farm standings and new-comers who want quick access to the ISK faucet that is FW missions, as far as I know. [nitpicking]Is 'para-military' the RP term for non-plexers? By definition, any member of a militia would be described as 'para-military'. Also, unless things have changed, FW missions are are an LP faucet and therefore an isk-sink due to LP store purchases and the lack of bounties on FW mission rats.[/nitpicking] I don't doubt that you, Damar and Sasawong (although I haven't read much from him on the matter) are probably the most competent players when it comes to plexing and you certainly know how to pvp, but the mere fact that you used to plex extensively for whatever reason makes you unrepresentative. Moreover, having read some of your posts on the matter, the discussion would likely end up being rather elaborate, convoluted and detail-stricken, thus lacking the bigger picture and - most importantly for a podcast - entertainment value for the broader audience. A mix of one (ex?)plexer, CEOs and FCs would be best, imho. I know that RPers like PIE, 1PG etc. always claimed to be representing (Amarr) FW and I don't doubt that this is true for plexing forces since it is entirely pointless if one doesn't do it for RP reasons (or some temporary standing grind for FW missions), but in my time and area of interest in FW, they were rather irrelevant compared to the likes of slacker industries, gunship diplomacy, absinthe brothers, helljumpers, no.mercy and whoever followed after them...
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.08.22 12:35:00 - [55] Originally by: Markius TheShed Then someone started.... Heh, PERVS last grand gesture before reforming with pew as primary focus .. they set out to show just how broken it is and managed to make everyone turn away in disgust of the reality of it when they did. The :awesome: is that the **-storm that hit the forums when it was happening still did not manage to get a response from CCP .. that was when I (finally!) realised that FW is for all intents and purposes abandon-ware. Originally by:** Name Family Name Is 'para-military' the RP term.. No, just an applicable word that defines plexers who bathe in blood .. can't really use "PvP'er" as they generally hate plexing so had to come up with a third option. Originally by: Name Family Name .. A mix of one (ex?)plexer, CEOs and FCs would be best, imho. You lost me am afraid. You seriously suggesting that anyone with a passion for FW (ie. the ones who will listen to the recording) would rather be entertained than hear constructive/lively discussion of the topic? Originally by: Name Family Name I know that RPers like PIE, 1PG etc. always claimed to be representing.. Whoa! What? All the RP'ers (on all the sides) are leading by example, none have ever claimed anything of the sort. That people choose to heed our calls and advice can hardly be interpreted as us claiming to represent anything other than know-how.
Damar Rocarion	Posted - 2011.08.22 14:28:00 - [56] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Heh, PERVS last grand gesture before reforming with pew as primary focus .. they set out to show just how broken it is and managed to make everyone turn away in disgust of the reality of it when they did. Gallente had Ankh and Val Erian doing it (Val even using alt named Ramad Noinacor), with former having done it since start of FW and nobody seemed to mind. She certainly didnt consider it an issue when she was in CSM. Since this was not a problem on her mind and neither it was on CCP's mind, PERVS decided to repeat it on industrial scale and as expected the people who were farting stuff like "working as intended" before it, were screaming for bloody murder and permabans. (Bad Messenger even mailed GM's and told them exactly what we will do, how we will do it and when we will do it and asked if it was ok. Answer was "go ahead, have fun")
Mystical Might Amarr The Imperial Fedaykin	Posted - 2011.08.22 15:00:00 - [57] Originally by: David Devant Edited by: David Devant on 18/08/2011 07:40:46 I'll come provided it isn't at some silly time. Quite want to hear what Veshta and Mystical sound like... Hit me up in game David Devant CTRL-Q CEO and euro TZ FC My voice is soft as a kitten. True story. On a side note, I don't know if I personally will be attending due to me simply being a :troll: . We'll see what happens.
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.08.22 15:44:00 - [58] Edited by: Cearain on 22/08/2011 15:45:33 Originally by: Cearain Keep in mind talking about ôfixing faction warö, and talking about how faction war currently works in a broken state are 2 completely different things. Most people in faction war do not use the foundational mechanic of faction war - occupancy plexing. The heads of larger corps may or may not have any interest/knowledge about this. I just quoted this again because I think this is where this is leading. I also agree with X Gallentius that too often the discussion of faction war revolves around what is broken with it. That in turn leads to many people missing out on what I consider the best part of eve. I really think 2 podcasts would be in order. This is a sizable part of game and would be time well spent. The first podcast could describe the basic mechanics, and what fw is like currently. For this you would probably want a ceo an fc and maybe someone who goes solo etc or who someone who does some of it all. This podcast could cover why people join fw as it exists today and really what are fun things to do in fw. If someone had experience in null sec or as a pirate they could talk about the advantages and disadvantages of each type of game and pvp in particular. This podcast could be an explanation of what is great about fw and how it provides many unique opportunities in eve. The other podcast could cover how to fix fw. At first you could again rehash the basic plex mechanics and give the skinny on why it is broken. If you just look at the list of items that have been brought up and briefly covered those with a groupd of people interested in fw then you would certainly have a sizable podcast. edit: BTW I would think the two podcasts would have different people on them. Maybe some overlap but pretty much each would discuss distinct topics. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.08.22 16:16:00 - [59] Originally by: Damar Rocarion Gallente had... All sides had people using all the "features" (not bugs and hence not exploits according to CCP ), but it was the scope of it that shocked people (industrial scale, I like that description ). An entire constellation dropped like a stone in what 10-12 days with nothing the matari could do to stop it even if they had wanted to .. @Cearain: Really not sure what you plan to talk about. Super-ISK missions, size restricted plexes and perma-dec for pew and occupancy .. not much more than that really. One has to assume that the podcaster has a plan for the roundtable with topics that must be covered before the children are given free reign .. if not then I am not sure its even worth participating in to be honest
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.08.22 17:40:00 - [60] @Hirana Yoshida I had listened to pod goo before. And if I am remembering right he doesn't know much about faction war and thought it would be good to have people on, who do. They could explain it to him and his audience. Most people who play eve probably only have a vague idea about faction war so I think this is a great idea. So I was thinking it would be a bit of fw 101 with the added benefit of having some people explain how as a practical matter the mechanics play out on tranquility. So yeah some explanation of the fw missions and how they are different than others. Some explanation of the plexing mechanic. Yes explain the war dec and what that means for where you can go in high sec etc. How do people make a living? What people do with the various mechanics etc. What are some good solo fits? Where fights occur and what types of fights occur where? Is it good for solo small gang pvp or just blobs? What sorts of ships are fcs looking for? Will people in the different militias let you in a fleet? What criteria are they using? What sort of players are different corps looking for? Are there any shared goals among corps? Is there any infighting? Just really try to give people an accurate picture of what fw is and is not. Thats just skimming the top of my mind. There actually is quite a bit to talk about. The second session could talk about the different changes people have been proposing. As you can see from the list I made its pretty lengthy and could easy make for a great podcast in itself. But I think if they try to do both in one podcast it will get a bit convoluted. I think that was the concern of XGallentius. We can get sidetracked onto how we would all like to fix the plexing mechanic and not inform people of what is great about fw as it is. That is why I was thinking 2 seperate podcasts. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1

Predator Elite The Imperial Fedaykin	Posted - 2011.08.22 20:35:00 - [61] Ender if you would like a fc's point of view on this topic please send me a eve mail, and Ill be there.
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.08.22 22:15:00 - [62] Predator Elite would definitely be an excellent pick for an amarr fc perspective. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Name Family Name	Posted - 2011.08.22 22:24:00 - [63] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Originally by: Name Family Name .. A mix of one (ex?)plexer, CEOs and FCs would be best, imho. You lost me am afraid. You seriously suggesting that anyone with a passion for FW (ie. the ones who will listen to the recording) would rather be entertained than hear constructive/lively discussion of the topic? I'm afraid it would end up too focused on plexing. I don't live in wormholes and don't intend to in the near future - yet I listened to the WH podcasts and liked the different angles the podcast portrayed, because it was interesting for a broader audience (like me). Whilst occupancy and plexing are the most broken mechanics in FW, you'll have to admit these facts are so widely known, players still doing them are a very small minority, so having people doing different things in FW (hell - even LP-***s) would provide for a more interesting discussion than having 4 guys talking about a broken mechanic they still engage in. From my perspective, a discussion about rat imbalance, speed tanking, dramiels, friendly militia plexing, cloaked plexing, plex spawns etc... would be rather uninteresting. During my time, I would probably have dealt with all that if plexing had given my militia any tactical advantage. It doesn't and therefore, any further discussion on the underlying mechanics is somewhat moot at this stage. At least CCP should make militia stations flip with occupancy and implement according docking rights - unless the utter irrelevance of occupancy is fixed, any further discussion would be like talking about fixing a wobbly door knob in cabin 1538 on the wreck of the titanic. Quote:** Whoa! What? All the RP'ers (on all the sides) are leading by example, none have ever claimed anything of the sort. That people choose to heed our calls and advice can hardly be interpreted as us claiming to represent anything other than know-how. Now that you say it, I must apologize - I have never read a statement claiming this, yet they are hardly representative of the FW playerbase.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.08.23 08:22:00 - [64] Originally by: Name Family Name ...I'm afraid it would end up too focused on plexing... On the plexing part most of the die-hards are pretty much agreed on what is wrong and what could/should be done so it's a five minute debate at best. The biggest time-sink will be the question: "effect of occupancy", everyone and their dog have an opinion on this and they range from null like sovereignty to mission LP increases .. If you have surplus sanity, read the frequent FW threads which all end up arguing about what MeMeMEMEME should get out of occupancy/plexing/Pew. Originally by: Name Family Name Now that you say it, I must apologize - I have never read a statement claiming this, yet they are hardly representative of the FW playerbase. I'd say the opposite (SURPRISE! ) as RP'ers make it a point to dabble in all areas available .. kind of necessary if one wants to make informed posts on IGS that are not shot down by the first guy with half a brain. Either way, if an RP'er is invited the main concern of that person should be the RP part of FW and not much else .. anyone may have knowledge of all other aspects but no one but us have knowledge of (read: interest in) the RP aspect .. that's how I see it anyway.
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.08.23 15:18:00 - [65] Name Family Name, I do agree with pretty much everything you said. They shouldn't really try to cover the issues with plexing and how FW currently works in the same podcast. However, I think that occupancy plexing should really be the back bone of FW. Otherwise its just a large war dec and a new form of missions. I and many others believe that fixing FW plexing could provide something that eve sorely lacks. A whole new method of warfare that focuses on small gang pvp. I enter plexes almost every time I pvp. I just move away from the rats so they don't kill my tank and wait for other players to come in. Some of the best fights I ever had were in or right outside often both. I think people discuss occupancy plexing so much because its easy to see how great it could be for eve. It definitely deserves its own podcast where the pros and cons can be considered for the players. Hirana Yoshida, There are considerable disagreements in how the plexing mechanic should change. Some want npcs to play a larger role (e.g. be tougher and require plexers to blow them all up) and others want plexing to involve less pve (no npcs at all and let militias know when a plex is entered so they can defend them player versus player.) Should the war front be spread out or more narrow? (If they are spread out you may be able to do them solo. Some want this. Others donÆt. If they are close it may lead to blobs. Some want this. Some donÆt.) If you look at the list of proposals you will find only a few that everyone agrees on. E.g., everyone agrees plexes shouldnÆt mainly spawn at noon in London, and that if there are going to be npcs they should attack the enemy. But these changes alone wonÆt really make plexing worthwhile. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Princess Nexxala Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.08.23 15:55:00 - [66] Damar you are a delusional exploiting troll. No QCAT has ever threatened you in IRL. It's a game friend, lighten up and try having fun. And for you to label anyone an exploiter is ironic and quite silly. Grow up, exploit less and maybe you won't be so bitter. Originally by: Damar Rocarion Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 16/08/2011 06:29:17 Originally by: Seriphyn Inhonores Originally by: Ammon Dei Lets all be reasonable... Say the persons who on their part are responsible for "Nennamaila incident" and approving their corp members irl threats against Caldari militia members. Talk about putting a fox to guard the hen house. Why would anyone trust you to fix FW?
Damar Rocarion	Posted - 2011.08.23 16:02:00 - [67] Originally by: Princess Nexxala Damar you are a delusional exploiting troll. No QCAT has ever threatened you in IRL. It's a game friend, lighten up and try having fun. Nennamaila incident = Qcats. Approving irl threats = Eleutherian Guard (= Seriphyn Inhonores) Any other clarifications needed?
Syekuda Hell's Revenge	Posted - 2011.08.23 17:21:00 - [68] Originally by: Princess Nexxala Damar you are a delusional exploiting troll. No QCAT has ever threatened you in IRL. It's a game friend, lighten up and try having fun. And for you to label anyone an exploiter is ironic and quite silly. Grow up, exploit less and maybe you won't be so bitter. CCP is actively looking and monitoring people when it comes to exploit. If Damar was exploiting a game mechanic, CCP would know and he would be banned. CCP is very clear on this subject. From my understanding, he and all others are just using the game mechanics to their advantage. I could take the neutral repping in high-sec for example. Some say its exploiting but it is not. It only ****es lots of people off just like this one here. So please, stop your accusation unless you got hard evidence if someone (ie: Damar) is using exploit and just report the damn thing to CCP FFS. This stupid exploit discusion as been going on for years and still is today...this is childish. -------------------------------------------------- Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome. ISAAC ASIMOV
X Gallentius Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.08.23 19:43:00 - [69] If it's not wiki'd, it didn't happen, IMO. I can't find the "Nennamaila Incident" on Eve Wiki. Case closed.
Pulgy Gallente Spiritus Draconis	Posted - 2011.08.23 20:04:00 - [70] Can't we just ignore Damar and his (successful) attempt to derail a decent FW discussion? Don't feed the troll :P END OF RINE

Cromwell Savage Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.08.24 00:09:00 - [71] Originally by: Syekuda Originally by: Princess Nexxala Damar you are a delusional exploiting troll. No QCAT has ever threatened you in IRL. It's a game friend, lighten up and try having fun. And for you to label anyone an exploiter is ironic and quite silly. Grow up, exploit less and maybe you won't be so bitter. CCP is actively looking and monitoring people when it comes to exploit. If Damar was exploiting a game mechanic, CCP would know and he would be banned. CCP is very clear on this subject. From my understanding, he and all others are just using the game mechanics to their advantage. I could take the neutral repping in high-sec for example. Some say its exploiting but it is not. It only ****es lots of people off just like this one here. So please, stop your accusation unless you got hard evidence if someone (ie: Damar) is using exploit and just report the damn thing to CCP FFS. This stupid exploit discusion as been going on for years and still is today...this is childish. Damar is about as hipocritical (and unstable) as they come... Couple of past Damar comments: "Also, we use alts simply because expendable and untrained alts bring us billions of isk. There is a method to this "madness" and it's well thought out." Damar Rocarion > I dont care about isk making exploits and such Damar Rocarion > But I cross the line in pvp exploits Damar exploits by his own admissions, yet he's the first to cry the sky is falling when something doesn't go his way...
Ender Black Lone Star Exploration	Posted - 2011.08.24 00:55:00 - [72] Oh dear good what have I signed up for? To those interested in participating I'll be sending EVEmails soon. We still have about a month before the recording and if this thread is any indication it should be a lively discussion.
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.08.24 04:26:00 - [73] Originally by: Ender Black Oh dear good what have I signed up for? If you filter out Damar and a few ex pervs, you've actually got yourself a pretty good discussion. Most of the active cal/gal pvpers are pretty friendly (at least they were when I was playing 2 months ago).
Damar Rocarion	Posted - 2011.08.24 04:27:00 - [74] Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 24/08/2011 04:28:06 Originally by: Cromwell Savage "Also, we use alts simply because expendable and untrained alts bring us billions of isk. There is a method to this "madness" and it's well thought out." Damar Rocarion > I dont care about isk making exploits and such Damar Rocarion > But I cross the line in pvp exploits Damar exploits by his own admissions, yet he's the first to cry the sky is falling when something doesn't go his way... Where I admit it? I say two things there. A) PERVS used expendable alts in tier 1 frigates to defend systems and recycled them for COSMOS goodies (before FW mission boost made the isk gained from this non-competive). Not an exploit and standard tactic these days among plexers and main reason fights over plexes now happen only once in a blue moon. (Val has two alts plus at least one more on his main account, Minmatar militia has ton of Vigil flying alts, etc.) B) That I dont mind people using exploits to make isk. More power to them if they dont get caught since ISK is plenty easy to come by with legit means too.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.08.24 05:44:00 - [75] Sounds like you girls are a bit confused as to what an exploit is. There are no exploits, because there are no bugs to exploit .. CCP has said as much in the <insert stupidly high figure> petitions. FW is working as intended. <-- That is what you should be moaning about. The complaint for me is that CCP sold us a product of such inferior quality that it contains flaws and loopholes so grievous that some people (myself included) consider using them exploitive even though they merely represent "standard" mechanics.
Syekuda Hell's Revenge	Posted - 2011.08.24 14:58:00 - [76] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Sounds like you girls are a bit confused as to what an exploit is. There are no exploits, because there are no bugs to exploit .. CCP has said as much in the <insert stupidly high figure> petitions. FW is working as intended. <-- That is what you should be moaning about. The complaint for me is that CCP sold us a product of such inferior quality that it contains flaws and loopholes so grievous that some people (myself included) consider using them exploitive even though they merely represent "standard" mechanics. ^^ That Exploits are monitored by CCP. If Damar was exploiting something in the game CCP would know by now. This guy is so visible that the entire CCP Office knows about him lol. Exploits don't last forever and long in Eve-online by the way. CCP knows how to detect them in case you guys don't know. personally I don't believe Damar is exploiting anything...simply because he's still here and playing. so... Ender Black, lots of people will say bad things about Damar but as you noticed yourself without no hard evidence. it's all he said she said kind of supposedly proof. So my point in this is when someone says something not related to your initial discussion, just use the report button and ignore it afterwards. The mods in this forum will just erase what they said. -------------------------------------------------- Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome. ISAAC ASIMOV
X Gallentius Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.08.24 15:02:00 - [77] Thread has devolved into plexing mechanic discussion - again - even though the most people who have participated in FW from the beginning hardly ever plexed. Keep those guys in this thread who walked down that path off the discussion panel! (including me :D )
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.08.24 16:13:00 - [78] Originally by: X Gallentius Thread has devolved into plexing mechanic discussion - again - even though the most people who have participated in FW from the beginning hardly ever plexed. Keep those guys in this thread who walked down that path off the discussion panel! (including me :D ) While I agree FW is 2 worlds(at least). There are those who just accept a large wardec and there are those who actually try (tried) to engage the actual fw mechanics. The way this conversation went proves that many (including myself) view occupancy plexing as important, if not the foundation of fw. And Hirana's post demonstrates it is horribly in need of fixing. When Players themselves are policing game mechanics that are so stupid everyone except ccp thinks they are exploitive (if not technically exploits) the game designers should get a clue. But even before these new ways of exploiting occupancy plexing were used systematically, occuppancy plexing still had problems. Mainly it had very little to do with the players warring against players. It was always mainly players warring against npcs/red crosses. This is why I think 2 podcasts would be best. 1 would give the basics, and how fw can be an enjoyable part of the game as is. The second would be a disscussion of how the foundational mechanic of occupancy plexing can be fixed. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Karl Planck Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos	Posted - 2011.08.24 16:39:00 - [79] ender, in case you haven't noticed, there are a few people in FW that are very very active on the forums. My advice to you is to go down the respective areas of FW space in a small ship and ask around. There are a lot of people on here that have not been mentioned really, though some of the people that have been mentioned are a valuable source. Ask around and check out various corps diplo's
Nitro DSP Minmatar Autocannons Anonymous	Posted - 2011.08.25 17:20:00 - [80] It is true that FW is PvP, plexes, and missions (with PvP being the most important aspect IMO) but if plexes are so important, why not make them worth something (like isk or direct LP gain) to display the importance?

Mara Abraham Minmatar Faction Warriors 411	Posted - 2011.08.25 18:06:00 - [81] Good day, Nitro DSP: HUGS, and hopefully welcome back. Thank you. --- Mara Abraham * http://www.factionalwarfare.info
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.08.25 18:21:00 - [82] Edited by: Cearain on 25/08/2011 18:22:16 Originally by: Nitro DSP It is true that FW is PvP, plexes, and missions (with PvP being the most important aspect IMO) but if plexes are so important, why not make them worth something (like isk or direct LP gain) to display the importance? I think that is a great question. Adding to the reward of doing plexes is something that has been proposed and is definitely worth discussing. But I think there is much more to it. I think ccp didn't make them worth that much at first because they viewed plexing as sort of the meta goal - it was an end in itself. Most players seemed to agree - at first. You join fw in order to gain territory for your faction. So you get isk so you can fight. You fight in order to get territory for your faction. You get territory for your faction because that was intended as one of many ultimate goals in this sandbox. If you win all the territory for your faction that was a worthy accomplishment! Why did this goal fail to motivate people? Well it did motivate people at first. Even though there was no reward to getting the occupancy (it was an end in itself). I would argue that people stopped not so much because they didn't get enough isk from the activity but instead because the activity itself was viewed as having little merit. People saw that this occupancy plexing was optimally done by doing pve and avoiding fights. Ank would post about how she did like 100 plexes without a single pvp kill! Well people in new eden do not value good pve skills. Hence gaining territory was no longer was viewed as an accomplishment to be proud of. That is why we have a pvp alliance tournament instead of one to see who can speed tank the most red crosses. I would say that people would still participate in the alliance tournament even if ccp did not pay out large prizes. (assuming the cost of entry was also removed - but not the cost of ships lost.) Why? Because winning the alliance tournament is seen as a worthy accomplishment. Now I am fairly sure that CCP can make occupancy plexing into something that people feel has merit. How? Make it involve allot of small scale pvp that is rich in tactics and dependent on the skill and intelligence of the pilots involved. If they do this I am sure people will start to do it again. And people will find another worthy goal to achieve in this sandbox. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Kirsten Arsten	Posted - 2011.08.25 20:28:00 - [83] Originally by: Damar Rocarion Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 17/08/2011 04:07:16 Originally by: Vim supercaps and might make empires nervous if used in actual combat that close to their turf. regular dreads/carriers is much less of a problem since they are perceived as actually fightable, without dialing 1-1-2-R-A-I-D-E-N and setting things up for a specific time and date. Whines a person from an FDU corp which has their own titan bridge and neutral carriers/logistics to help gallente fleets? Priceless. I quess we know now whose Nyx it was that got destroyed in Harroule... So damar. how are your raiden friends doing? pro pvp right here http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=10381107
Large Collidable Object morons.	Posted - 2011.08.26 02:37:00 - [84] Originally by: Kirsten Arsten So damar. how are your raiden friends doing? pro pvp right here http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=10381107 Wow - the amount of fail it takes to get locked by a bunch of caps and Scaps whilst sitting in a stealthbomber is mind-blowing. Actually, getting that many of them on that killmail really is pro, regardless of the pilot obviously being a moron extraordinaire...
Damar Rocarion	Posted - 2011.08.26 04:42:00 - [85] Originally by: Large Collidable Object Wow - the amount of fail it takes to get locked by a bunch of caps and Scaps whilst sitting in a stealthbomber is mind-blowing. Actually, getting that many of them on that killmail really is pro, regardless of the pilot obviously being a moron extraordinaire... That's what I was thinking. Besides, that kind of blobbing against lone targets is what gallente militia mainly does so they are naturally ****ed off when they are subjected to it.
BuzzyBeagle	Posted - 2011.08.26 12:55:00 - [86] Originally by: Damar Rocarion Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 16/08/2011 06:29:17 Originally by: Seriphyn Inhonores Originally by: Ammon Dei Lets all be reasonable... Say the persons who on their part are responsible for "Nennamaila incident" and approving their corp members irl threats against Caldari militia members. Talk about putting a fox to guard the hen house. Why would anyone trust you to fix FW? IRL threats to Caldari? what/when/who? details!
DNLeviathan Caldari Hole Plunderer's	Posted - 2011.09.01 15:43:00 - [87] i found myself a new primary. someone get point. bump him away from the gate.


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