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dholl trip
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.09.24 10:14:00 -
[31] - Quote
Great reply, Matt Grav...that pretty much technically explains it. And good feedback from most of the other replies too.
My musing has been answered. We can still continue the thread to perhaps discuss the future feasibility of allowing a first-person view, but otherwise I think we've covered all bases the topic has to offer.
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Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
42
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Posted - 2012.09.24 10:27:00 -
[32] - Quote
1st person view is only really useful on in a wasd/joystick controlled combat flight simulator game. Eve is not a combat flight sim. Eve is not x-btf, x2, x3 Eve is not elite v3.0 These are your non-story based reasons.
There is no cockpit view, because there is no cockpit. Just a whole bunch of cables hooked upto an eggshaped 1 person capsule. You can however simulate a Cockpit view. Open your display settings and configure them to only show GREEN, you can now see the goo in your pod. |
DeBingJos
Avalon Project Shadow Rock Alliance
395
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Posted - 2012.09.24 10:39:00 -
[33] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote: Eve is not elite v3.0
WHAT?!
Yes it is!
Ungi ma+¦urinn ++ekkir reglurnar, en gamli ma+¦urinn ++ekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions. |
Omega Sunset
Caldari Roughnecks
49
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Posted - 2012.09.24 10:47:00 -
[34] - Quote
dholl trip wrote: discuss the future feasibility of allowing a first-person view
What's to discuss? Like I said, it's already there. You just flip the cam around in zoom, thus you have a first-person view/nose cam that also magnifies gates at long range for bubbles. I've been using it for years. Cam right in-front of the ship pointing forward, right? Or are you looking for an arm holding a sword and shield? heh
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Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
697
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Posted - 2012.09.24 10:59:00 -
[35] - Quote
Not going into the first person view vs third person view, that's been covered.
One of the things new players are often told is to forget any other game/mmo they have played before and leave any expectations they have based upon previous games behind. EVE is a niche game, it's unlike anything you've played before. No pause button, no saves you can go back to and if you get shot down you lose your stuff. Things that may have taken you months to put together are gone or picked up by the people who shot you. There's no magical respawning of your stuff.
Talking about the OP's 'desire' for occasional one on ones, sorry those are fairly rare.
EVE is eat or get eaten. You come with 1 ship, I bring 3. You bring 3 ships I bring 12. Tough battles can be epic in scale, here's one PVE battle for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEpo4vRGOTc&list=PLBC70E09D59499069&index=6&feature=plpp_video Just skip to the 2 minutes mark. :)
Eve also is: - spreadsheets online - scammers & backstabbers online - my day is good if I ruined yours online - this isn't easy online
but also: - friends online - lots of fun online - we band together online
OP you sound like a romantic dreamer. Even if you'd had a 2d view I doubt that EVE would be something for you, still you have 2 weeks why not sit it out, it's free and maybe you find a reason to enjoy part of it after all.
But wherever you go, fly save. o/
Hi, I'm CCP Arrow, I screwed up the.. ummm... |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
87
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Posted - 2012.09.24 11:24:00 -
[36] - Quote
OP, if you turn on the Advanced Camera Controls there should be a new option in your context menu when you right-click a target: "set as interest". This will keep the camera pointed at a specific target. If you play with your camera drone when your target is "set as interest", you can get pretty stunning visuals (of your ship orbiting the enemy, for example). |
Hina Yamamoto
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2012.09.24 11:58:00 -
[37] - Quote
Sometimes I wish to be able to see the bridge of the ship, too. I hope it will be real someday after they've finished Walking in Stations.
And because some people still think that there is no bridge and no crew: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelines |
Keno Skir
Vectis Covert Solutions
230
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Posted - 2012.09.24 12:03:00 -
[38] - Quote
dholl trip wrote:Have you never played flight games before? The best ones are generally first-person view, or at least give you that option (see also driving games).
Yeah actually everything from Longbow thru to all the Falcon series, LO:MAC, EECH and EEAH. All of these flight sims correctly feature a cockpit view.
EvE does not, because it would be useless.
If there was a cockpit view you wouldnt know where anything was unless it was right in front of you. Also the developers would have to individually render a 3d cockpit view for over 200 different spacecraft instead of working on something that actually has a point and is wanted by more than just a few players.
For extra reading see the whole walking in stations thing. In a perfect world it would be nice, but really its just not worth development time at this stage.
Also, if you will keep rattling on about imersiveness then you really should take storyline replies into account. Half the imersiveness of most games is in fact the storyline elements in conjunction with mechanical elements and how they fit together. For most people having a cockpit view in a ship with no cockpit would REDUCE imersiveness.
If you have any further thoughts on something i've posted, or want to ask an unrelated question feel free to contact me by EvE Mail or by private conversation if i'm online. BUDDY TRIALS AVAILABLE - 21days plus big ISK bonus and starting assistance |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
49
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Posted - 2012.09.24 13:01:00 -
[39] - Quote
There's no mention of a bridge in that article and, as far as I can see, nobody in this thread has said there's no crew.
OP seems to be the sort who would walk onto a hockey pitch and demand to know why he can't use a baseball bat. |
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ISD Athechu
ISD STAR
131
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Posted - 2012.09.24 13:16:00 -
[40] - Quote
Cleaned up some posts that weren't on topic.
Enjoy.
Also if you want a feature to be added or looked at and discussed please take it to the Features & Ideas section. ISD Athechu Commander ISD STAR (Support Training and Resources) EVE New Citizens Q&A Resources |
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dholl trip
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.09.24 13:20:00 -
[41] - Quote
ISD Athechu wrote:Cleaned up some posts that weren't on topic.
I don't remember any off-topic posts. And the ones about "there's the door" and ones going on about the story still remain.
ISD Athechu wrote: Also if you want a feature to be added or looked at and discussed please take it to the Features & Ideas section.
Can trial members now post elsewhere? |
Tialano Utrigas
Running with Knives Nexus Fleet
2
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Posted - 2012.09.24 13:59:00 -
[42] - Quote
I can understand the desire of the OP so shooting him down, so to speak, seems a bit harsh.
The reasoning behind non-storyline arguments i.e. no bridge etc is utterly rubbish. If you can link into to camera drones around your ship theres no reason you can't link to a heads up display which can pan around from within your ship.
That said I fully appreciate the server requirements would be completely un workable in its current state.
For those that say you will lose the immersion?
Picture FPV being allowed on frigate class vessles (or fighters...thinking outside the box), then imagine the full scale of immersion you would get while pointing and orbiting a capital ship (which would look HUGE in FPV) with your tackle squad, while your fleet is bombarding it from afar.
For me, its not a bad concept...its just a new one. |
dholl trip
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.09.24 14:01:00 -
[43] - Quote
Oraac Ensor wrote: OP seems to be the sort who would walk onto a hockey pitch and demand to know why he can't use a baseball bat.
That is even worse than the swords & lightsabers analogy.
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dholl trip
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.09.24 14:03:00 -
[44] - Quote
Tialano Utrigas wrote: Picture FPV being allowed on frigate class vessles (or fighters...thinking outside the box), then imagine the full scale of immersion you would get while pointing and orbiting a capital ship (which would look HUGE in FPV) with your tackle squad, while your fleet is bombarding it from afar.
Indeed! |
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ISD Athechu
ISD STAR
131
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Posted - 2012.09.24 14:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
dholl trip wrote:ISD Athechu wrote:Cleaned up some posts that weren't on topic.
I don't remember any off-topic posts. And the ones about "there's the door" and ones going on about the story still remain.
I'm not here to censor people and if they feel the need to say "there is the door" after giving an expatiation on why they said that and isn't in an offensive way then it's fine. If the post is just "GTFO" or "Door ---> That way" along those lines I will remove those. i will go back and look again but I didn't see any that warranted that off hand but I could have missed it as I am human.
dholl trip wrote:ISD Athechu wrote: Also if you want a feature to be added or looked at and discussed please take it to the Features & Ideas section.
Can trial members now post elsewhere?
Not to my knowledge but if the topic goes that way I will have to put it in the proper section for that type of discussion. Since Developers do read the forums and I know a few do read the F&I section best just make it easy to find the "EVE Should have XYZ" threads instead of hunting all over the forums for them. ISD Athechu Commander ISD STAR (Support Training and Resources) EVE New Citizens Q&A Resources |
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Sin Pew
Dakini Rising The Kali Cartel
119
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Posted - 2012.09.24 14:20:00 -
[46] - Quote
Tialano Utrigas wrote:Picture FPV being allowed on frigate class vessles (or fighters...thinking outside the box), then imagine the full scale of immersion you would get while pointing and orbiting a capital ship (which would look HUGE in FPV) with your tackle squad, while your fleet is bombarding it from afar.
For me, its not a bad concept...its just a new one. You wouldn't see much more than a piece of hull through such a limited field of vision and some simulated flashes god knows where around your ship, and simulated explosions in some direction, so I tend to prefer the zoomed out camera drone option where you actually see the engagement than a first-person peek through a loophole with stuff happening somewhere around. Would be like being a kiddo in a packed crowd of adults at a fireworks show, you see flashes and hear splosions, but miss all the good stuff until one drags you up to sit you on their shoulders. "haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator." |
dholl trip
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.09.24 14:39:00 -
[47] - Quote
ISD Athechu wrote: I'm not here to censor (unless I have to due to rules violation) i'm here to keep order and things on topic. If you feel a post should be looked at please go ahead and report it and we will take a look at it.
No, I think the thread's been quite good, even with the odd silly comment. Maybe the posts you deleted were ones I didn't see anyway.
ISD Athechu wrote: Not to my knowledge but if the topic goes that way I will have to put it in the proper section for that type of discussion. Since Developers do read the forums and I know a few do read the F&I section best just make it easy to find the "EVE Should have XYZ" threads instead of hunting all over the forums for them.
Feel free to move it if you think it's a good idea. I won't be able to post myself, but I don't have anything left to add, anyway. |
Tialano Utrigas
Running with Knives Nexus Fleet
2
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Posted - 2012.09.24 14:43:00 -
[48] - Quote
Sin Pew wrote:Tialano Utrigas wrote:Picture FPV being allowed on frigate class vessles (or fighters...thinking outside the box), then imagine the full scale of immersion you would get while pointing and orbiting a capital ship (which would look HUGE in FPV) with your tackle squad, while your fleet is bombarding it from afar.
For me, its not a bad concept...its just a new one. You wouldn't see much more than a piece of hull through such a limited field of vision and some simulated flashes god knows where around your ship, and simulated explosions in some direction, so I tend to prefer the zoomed out camera drone option where you actually see the engagement than a first-person peek through a loophole with stuff happening somewhere around. Would be like being a kiddo in a packed crowd of adults at a fireworks show, you see flashes and hear splosions, but miss all the good stuff until one drags you up to sit you on their shoulders.
Agreed, hence why it would be optional.
I have to say though, without going through all the epic scenarios I can think of, the Inferno trailer would look rather good in FPV, racing past your fleet's missile boats in a Rifter with friendly cruise missiles brushing past you, while booting up your MWD to close in on that monstrousity that is quickly filling up your HUD.
We can all dream of what we percieve to be great. But one of those dreams might be percieved to be great by another 100,000 subs. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1564
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Posted - 2012.09.24 15:02:00 -
[49] - Quote
Tialano Utrigas wrote: Picture FPV being allowed on frigate class vessles (or fighters...thinking outside the box), then imagine the full scale of immersion you would get while pointing and orbiting a capital ship (which would look HUGE in FPV) with your tackle squad, while your fleet is bombarding it from afar.
Some ballpark numbers as to why first person does not work as you think it would:
A 5 km long object (capital ship) from 20 km away (typical practical tackle frigate orbit distance) in a typical 90 degree FOV (90-110 degrees is what is usually used for first-person views) shows up as 1/8 the lengh/height of your screen. That is, it takes up 1/64 of your screen. That is hardly impressive. To make it look impressive, you'd have to use an absurdly low angle for the FOV.
In that same situation, a 20 km orbit is completed by a frigate (going at 3.5 km/s MWD speed) in a little over half a minute. That is a little over 60 miles in that short amount of time. At that sort of speed, there really isn't anything interesting to see. Things up close zip by too quickly, and things far either appear small because you're passing them so quickly, or don't appear at all because you're too far away.
For comparison to the Star Wars context where first person view works for fighters: the Millenium Falcon moves at 300 m/s (at max subwarp combat speed), is 34 m long, and against equivalently sized targets has an operational combat range of less than 1 km. Compare that to, say, a Rifter, which moves at 400 m/s at base speed (no propulsion mods on), is 120 km long, and whose weapons can be reliably used up to 6-7 km away (at least). With the former, things are up close enough and slow enough to conceivably see things. With the latter, not so much.
As some last evidence, take this screenshot, which I took during a corp frigate tournament. The distance between the two frigates was about 5 km. See how tiny the second one looks in the distance? First person would be incredibly underwhelming.
tl;dr: Eve involves flying really fast through really empty space, and shooting things really far away, which would look really boring in first person. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - low/nullsec operations, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Cass Lie
State War Academy Caldari State
43
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Posted - 2012.09.24 15:26:00 -
[50] - Quote
True, but all you people try to force first person view on the existing mechanics. Should first person view be used, all the game mechanics would have to be completely different (likely more twitch based, etc.). It was simply a fundamental design decision taken by CCP a very long time ago. Having a space sim with first person view, manual turret control and such things together with deep player driven economy and other sandbox features is entirely concievable. It may even do some things better than EVE, but it will definitely be worse at others. |
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highonpop
Eve Liberation Force Fatal Ascension
327
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Posted - 2012.09.24 15:43:00 -
[51] - Quote
Baltara wrote:In EvE you are not in a cockpit. You are in a pod full of goo.
EvE is more systems management than first person twitch shooter.
According EVE fiction, we are actually in a bridge like a real ship and there are npc workers on your ship. We should have a captain's chair and a "make it so" butan
http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Very%20best%20of%20Makalu%20Zarya
R.I.P Vile Rat http://evemaps.dotlan.net/live/Outpost/Rename/2012-09-12 |
Tialano Utrigas
Running with Knives Nexus Fleet
2
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Posted - 2012.09.24 16:12:00 -
[52] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote: A 5 km long object (capital ship) from 20 km away (typical practical tackle frigate orbit distance) in a typical 90 degree FOV (90-110 degrees is what is usually used for first-person views) shows up as 1/8 the lengh/height of your screen. That is, it takes up 1/64 of your screen. That is hardly impressive. To make it look impressive, you'd have to use an absurdly low angle for the FOV, which would feel like the equivalent to using a high power telescope to watch the flight of a fly several blocks away.
You've taken this a bit too seriously my friend.
Didn't say it would work with current mechanics.but could look good in certain situations. I have to say, Frig vs Frig would look pretty boring, off the back of your screenie.
I did not mean for it to sound like a combat flight/space simulation; instead a different view point with some snassy HUD graphics and the ability to pan an on board ship camera, where you could really appreciate the scale of the larger ships and what is going on around you. That is not a change in mechanics, and if you swich to HUD view and all you see is a screen full of Capital Hull, then switch back |
Keno Skir
Vectis Covert Solutions
230
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Posted - 2012.09.24 19:41:00 -
[53] - Quote
dholl trip wrote:Tialano Utrigas wrote: Picture FPV being allowed on frigate class vessles (or fighters...thinking outside the box), then imagine the full scale of immersion you would get while pointing and orbiting a capital ship (which would look HUGE in FPV) with your tackle squad, while your fleet is bombarding it from afar.
Indeed!
You wouldnt be able to see the ship you were orbiting from the bridge, thats in the front if it exiats at all. Judging by the graphics anyway. If you have any further thoughts on something i've posted, or want to ask an unrelated question feel free to contact me by EvE Mail or by private conversation if i'm online. BUDDY TRIALS AVAILABLE - 21days plus big ISK bonus and starting assistance |
Gun Gal
Dark Club
95
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Posted - 2012.09.25 19:46:00 -
[54] - Quote
Eve will not have first person flying.
Deal with it.
Your the kind that will cry at everything
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dholl trip
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.09.25 23:05:00 -
[55] - Quote
Gun Gal wrote:Eve will not have first person flying.
Deal with it.
Your the kind that will cry at everything
Why is there always some primitive troll who tries to derail an otherwise decent thread?
This thread had finished naturally, with everything sensible being said. You should question your worth to the community here if all you do is post random nonsense.
My advice: read threads first before posting. If you must target the OP, then argue your point coherently. Remember this is a public board. Dozens of people have read your post now and will likely not take you seriously any more.
Remember that you are the maker of your own reputation...and thus, your destiny. Don't make it worse than it needs to be, for that would just be stupid. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1578
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Posted - 2012.09.25 23:27:00 -
[56] - Quote
dholl trip wrote: Why is there always some primitive troll who tries to derail an otherwise decent thread?
Because. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - low/nullsec operations, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4672
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Posted - 2012.09.26 10:03:00 -
[57] - Quote
Keith Gavner wrote:You seem a little stubborn so I'll get into details.
The first thing is that eve is not a game where you fly around in a shiny ship. It's a universe filled with paranoid socially inapt psychopath and all of them are here to get you.
Correction: a lot of the most dangerous ones actually have pretty good social skills.
The socially "inapt" ones complain about blobs
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Sin Pew
Dakini Rising The Kali Cartel
124
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Posted - 2012.09.26 12:02:00 -
[58] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Keith Gavner wrote:You seem a little stubborn so I'll get into details.
The first thing is that eve is not a game where you fly around in a shiny ship. It's a universe filled with paranoid socially inapt psychopath and all of them are here to get you.
Correction: a lot of the most dangerous ones actually have pretty good social skills. The socially "inapt" ones complain about blobs You guys forgot schizophrenia, with so many people having alts, this got to be related... OMG WE GOTZ ALTS!!!!! "haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator." |
Casirio
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
17
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Posted - 2012.09.26 15:24:00 -
[59] - Quote
enable the advanced camera settings, press cntrl + F9. you will get your blissful flying. or you can learn eve and pvp and have a lot more fun. but to each their own, I'm not judging. |
dholl trip
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.09.26 16:23:00 -
[60] - Quote
Casirio wrote:enable the advanced camera settings, press cntrl + F9. you will get your blissful flying. or you can learn eve and pvp and have a lot more fun. but to each their own, I'm not judging.
Of course I tried that, but I'm not flying in first-person, I'm just moving an external camera in first-person. There's a significant difference. The physics are off for a start.
Like I wrote earlier: I believe all of you when you say Eve is an excellent experience. But I thought it was a different kind of space game. It's just not what I'm looking for.
That doesn't mean that if I played it again for a few hours it wouldn't seduce me still. One related example was the first time I played Mirror's Edge. I didn't like it, and couldn't get past the idea that the game would be much better in third-person view, like the Tomb Raider games I was familiar with. I put the game down, dismissed it, and only played it again when I won an Ebay auction for Gé¼1 for the PS3 version. The second time I played it I got seduced by the first-person platforming perspective...it won me over so much that I think I may even prefer it to the Tomb Raider platforming perspective.
So there's a precedent to the idea that I could grow to enjoy the Eve perspecive more than the X perspective.
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