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Nullsec players explain (EvE not a game .. a full time job)

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Jag Hiroshii Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.17 19:32:00 - [1] It seems to me that in spite the skill mechanics (time rather than grind) ... to get anything out of this game, you have to take a play stance that takes you in to nullsec or a wormhole. It appears that recent devblogs are pointing development in this area, potentially stripping profit activities from high sec. Great .. risk Vs reward ... I get this. But my experience of nullsec is that it's an environment that requires huge amounts of time and dedication to make it viable. Am I wrong here? I believe that the game offers less and less to casual players. Me? I have real life to contend with .. wife and kids .. full time high pressure job. Sure I'd love to play Eve 23/7 but life isn't like that. So what's in it for the casual player?
baltec1	Posted - 2011.08.17 19:36:00 - [2] I havent needed to do any pve for isk for at least 2 months now yet pvp all the time (not the last few weeks, not enough time due to having fun in RL)
Dub Step Minmatar Death To Everyone But Us	Posted - 2011.08.17 19:39:00 - [3] You are wrong. You can operate independently in null sec space if you wish to. The fact that you are more prone to interference from other players is the only thing you have to deal with more than you would in high-sec.
Feligast Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.08.17 19:45:00 - [4] I too have a real life.. job, wife, family. For the casual player, particularly one that has no interest in big alliances/politics/big fleet fights, there is NPC nullsec.. systems that everyone can dock in, with mission agents and the like.. and base out of there to avoid the sov headaches. Otherwise, joining up with a group of like-mind people can help.. you can make the most of your time by catching up with friends you've made in game. As for ISK generation, just belt ratting has been known to net 40-60m an hour for some, so even with limited time you can make enough to keep playing and roaming. All in all, while those who do devote more time to the game in nullsec tend to overshadow most, the casual player still has a place out here.
Ryhss Caldari The Excecutorans	Posted - 2011.08.17 19:47:00 - [5] Eve is not a game for casual players. Originally by: Kaethe Kollwitz null sec sucks dongs.
Coffe's Babe Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.17 19:52:00 - [6] Originally by: Ryhss Eve is not a game for casual players. Well see, here you are wrong. Most of the people that play EvE are the carebears that do 3-4 missions and mine a few times a week when they come home from work, training skills for long periods of time and playing "a little bit longer" in their spare time. I'm not speaking about myself but all studies and censuses point to that. Ergo, EvE, and the way skill training is thought, IS for casual players. You just can't enjoy it to the max if you are casual. But most of the processes are build for casualness. Smart people have quotes in their sig - me
Plyn	Posted - 2011.08.17 19:56:00 - [7] Full-time Job... Check! Full-time Student... Check! Father of a 6-month old baby girl... Check! Member of an alliance with sov... Check! Average Play Time per Day... ~1 hour Profiting and having fun... Check! I find that time is less of a restriction in null sec. If I've only got 15 minutes to play while I drink my coffee in the morning, I can go kill a couple of BS rats and still feel like I got a little somethin' somethin'. Can't do a level 4 mission in 15 minutes.
Kendra Wilkinson	Posted - 2011.08.17 19:57:00 - [8] Originally by: Feligast there is NPC nullsec.. systems that everyone can dock in, with mission agents and the like.. and base out of there to avoid the sov headaches. off course you guaranteed the fact "undock of your npc station arent over bulled and without a gang of 15 zealot, 4 guardian, 2 devoter and 3 sabre" ?
baltec1	Posted - 2011.08.17 19:59:00 - [9] Originally by: Kendra Wilkinson Originally by: Feligast there is NPC nullsec.. systems that everyone can dock in, with mission agents and the like.. and base out of there to avoid the sov headaches. off course you guaranteed the fact "undock of your npc station arent over bulled and without a gang of 15 zealot, 4 guardian, 2 devoter and 3 sabre" ? You have no idea how hard it is to stop a t3 from doing missions from NPC stations
Jag Hiroshii Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.17 20:04:00 - [10] Edited by: Jag Hiroshii on 17/08/2011 20:05:47 Appreciate the answers .. so here 's an example of a problem that becomes magnified in nullsec if you're a casual player. I need ships down there. If I want to move 5 ships in to nullsec to tide me over (because the chances are that they're unlikely to be on sale at sane prices down there) .... let's say 30 jumps. By my calc ... It would be 270 jumps in total by the time I get all 5 in to 0.0. Much of it across space with gate camps / bubbles etc. Just to get started. Is that an experience I want to pay for?

Ikonz Coristati	Posted - 2011.08.17 20:06:00 - [11] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Kendra Wilkinson Originally by: Feligast there is NPC nullsec.. systems that everyone can dock in, with mission agents and the like.. and base out of there to avoid the sov headaches. off course you guaranteed the fact "undock of your npc station arent over bulled and without a gang of 15 zealot, 4 guardian, 2 devoter and 3 sabre" ? You have no idea how hard it is to stop a t3 from doing missions from NPC stations why would that be hard? how can a t3 ship escape a blob camp at a npc station?
Skaldenwei Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.08.17 20:11:00 - [12] Originally by: Jag Hiroshii Edited by: Jag Hiroshii on 17/08/2011 20:05:47 Appreciate the answers .. so here 's an example of a problem that becomes magnified in nullsec if you're a casual player. I need ships down there. If I want to move 5 ships in to nullsec to tide me over (because the chances are that they're unlikely to be on sale at sane prices down there) .... let's say 30 jumps. By my calc ... It would be 270 jumps in total by the time I get all 5 in to 0.0. Much of it across space with gate camps / bubbles etc. Just to get started. Is that an experience I want to pay for? I have to agree with you here, I've thought about moving to NPC null-sec to make iskies through bountys and faction goodies but the Logistics of moving ships and ammo down is just too much of a pain for me
Dub Step Minmatar Death To Everyone But Us	Posted - 2011.08.17 20:14:00 - [13] Originally by: Kendra Wilkinson off course you guaranteed the fact "undock of your npc station arent over bulled and without a gang of 15 zealot, 4 guardian, 2 devoter and 3 sabre" ? While it is true that anyone could camp you in like this, in reality, a camp like that wouldn't actually last very long without a counter fleet becoming interested and paying them a visit. 0.0 is absolutely NOT as populated by gatecamps (and station) as people think. All these horror stories about 'when I went to 0.0 it was all blobs/camps' are from people that went once during prime-time and died in the choke systems and assumed everywhere was like that. Originally by: Ikonz how can a t3 ship escape a blob camp at a npc station? Insta undock
Feligast Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.08.17 20:15:00 - [14] Originally by: Ikonz Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Kendra Wilkinson Originally by: Feligast there is NPC nullsec.. systems that everyone can dock in, with mission agents and the like.. and base out of there to avoid the sov headaches. off course you guaranteed the fact "undock of your npc station arent over bulled and without a gang of 15 zealot, 4 guardian, 2 devoter and 3 sabre" ? You have no idea how hard it is to stop a t3 from doing missions from NPC stations why would that be hard? how can a t3 ship escape a blob camp at a npc station? Insta undocks and interdiction nullifier. Cloak as well for once you get out. It's damn hard to get one, they really have to make a mistake to get caught.
Feligast Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.08.17 20:18:00 - [15] Originally by: Jag Hiroshii Edited by: Jag Hiroshii on 17/08/2011 20:05:47 Appreciate the answers .. so here 's an example of a problem that becomes magnified in nullsec if you're a casual player. I need ships down there. If I want to move 5 ships in to nullsec to tide me over (because the chances are that they're unlikely to be on sale at sane prices down there) .... let's say 30 jumps. By my calc ... It would be 270 jumps in total by the time I get all 5 in to 0.0. Much of it across space with gate camps / bubbles etc. Just to get started. Is that an experience I want to pay for? Well, if you can't haul them all down, that is nuts. My advice, and something I too had to come to grips wiuth.. just get used to nullsec prices as "normal". Once you can accept that, then when you CAN make a run to highsec, everything feels cheap.
Kendra Wilkinson	Posted - 2011.08.17 20:21:00 - [16] Edited by: Kendra Wilkinson on 17/08/2011 20:24:04 Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Kendra Wilkinson Originally by: Feligast there is NPC nullsec.. systems that everyone can dock in, with mission agents and the like.. and base out of there to avoid the sov headaches. off course you guaranteed the fact "undock of your npc station arent over bulled and without a gang of 15 zealot, 4 guardian, 2 devoter and 3 sabre" ? You have no idea how hard it is to stop a t3 from doing missions from NPC stations i've spend few month in null sec so yes i know how it's not easy to catch a t3 with nullifier but we talk about undock not jump through a gate an insta-undock can be countered if your guyz know what they must do it's not because i'm talking with an alt that i'm completly ignorant about nullsec but i dont want involve my ex-corp with my words...
baltec1	Posted - 2011.08.17 20:25:00 - [17] Originally by: Jag Hiroshii Edited by: Jag Hiroshii on 17/08/2011 20:05:47 Appreciate the answers .. so here 's an example of a problem that becomes magnified in nullsec if you're a casual player. I need ships down there. If I want to move 5 ships in to nullsec to tide me over (because the chances are that they're unlikely to be on sale at sane prices down there) .... let's say 30 jumps. By my calc ... It would be 270 jumps in total by the time I get all 5 in to 0.0. Much of it across space with gate camps / bubbles etc. Just to get started. Is that an experience I want to pay for? get a carrier
Wile EC	Posted - 2011.08.17 20:25:00 - [18] Originally by: Jag Hiroshii ...potentially stripping profit activities from high sec... AFK anything is still 100% profit, as is PLEX. In another time, or another game, these changes might have meaning, but in the current iteration of EVE they are emotional consessions that will make certain players feel better and that is about it.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.17 20:27:00 - [19] Originally by: Ryhss Eve is not a game for casual players. Its not for casual players who pay via PLEX for their first year. After that its pretty much "all gravy" as they say. If you pay with real currency there is no excuse. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Kendra Wilkinson	Posted - 2011.08.17 20:29:00 - [20] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Jag Hiroshii Edited by: Jag Hiroshii on 17/08/2011 20:05:47 Appreciate the answers .. so here 's an example of a problem that becomes magnified in nullsec if you're a casual player. I need ships down there. If I want to move 5 ships in to nullsec to tide me over (because the chances are that they're unlikely to be on sale at sane prices down there) .... let's say 30 jumps. By my calc ... It would be 270 jumps in total by the time I get all 5 in to 0.0. Much of it across space with gate camps / bubbles etc. Just to get started. Is that an experience I want to pay for? get a carrier and be supers'ed ?

baltec1	Posted - 2011.08.17 20:52:00 - [21] Originally by: Kendra Wilkinson get a carrier and be supers'ed ? Shouldnt get dropped if you do things right.
Jag Hiroshii Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.17 20:57:00 - [22] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Kendra Wilkinson get a carrier and be supers'ed ? Shouldnt get dropped if you do things right. Not sounding very 'casual gamer' yet ...
Feligast Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.08.17 21:03:00 - [23] Well, in that instance, you're trying to equate "casual" with "stupid and lazy". They aren't (necessarily) the same thing.
Magnus Orin Minmatar Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.08.17 21:11:00 - [24] Edited by: Magnus Orin on 17/08/2011 21:18:52 You can be a casual player and live in 0.0 I do. You just need to manage your time well, and stay active (at least lurking) on your corp/alliance forums or jabber or however you coordinate ** out of game. The only thing your alliance HC really wants us little scrublets doing, is Xing up during strategic OPs; the that really matters. Make time to attend one or two (or more if you can) of those a week, and you are pretty much a welcome part of any alliance in 0.0 Its not about being online all the time in 0.0, its about being online at the right time, and in the right fleet. Example of my playtime last night: Sit down at computer, log onto mumble/jabber. Read that a fleet is forming up in a few. Log onto Eve, buy a welpcane, fill it with ammo. Join fleet, fly some jumps, * KMs, diaf, pod express home, laugh on mumble and have a blast. Fly to ratting system, clear a Sanctum, fill out reimbursement request as I grind a bit of iskies, then log off. Total play time; 2.5 hours. During strategic ops, its basically the same thing, sometimes even better, cause there is usually something going on all the time (even if it is shooting pos or setting up pos, or guarding pos). Be a smart player, and get yourself to the staging system early, and live out of a POS if you need to. Log into Eve in a POS, join fleet. Listen to DBRB's stupid dog, and * KMs. Shoot POS. Girlfriend comes home, wants to have sex. Safe up in POS, drop fleet and log out. Total play time: however the ** much you want. Sarcasm - Because i'm too far away to strangle you.
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.08.17 22:26:00 - [25] I have heard some people say it can be casual and others say its not. On the whole I think casual is a relative term. I think I tend to find those who say its not casual more credible for how I understand credible. Joining large fleets blobbing around and ***ing kms doesn't sound fun to me. NPC null sec sounds decent. But when I look at corp recruitment threads that are there it seems they always are after active players. Or it seems they want someone to hang out with. Or some other type of language where they don't want too much of this or too much of that. Show me the corps where you can join a gang whenever perhaps, 1 time every 2 or 3 months. The rest of the time you can be solo or do what you want. Also where you don't have to be online at any time just whenever. In other words I really don't need a computer game to give me any* obligations what so ever. For me FW is a much better fit. I can fly solo and don't have to always wait for a fleet to form. (which can take 45 minutes) I mainly sign on for short time periods and don't want to join a gang only to have to abandon them at a moments notice. Maybe for large blobs abandoning them is no big deal but in small scale pvp this can be a real problem. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Garresh Minmatar Opposite of Low	Posted - 2011.08.17 22:34:00 - [26] I lived in a class 2 wormhole for almost a year, by myself. I ran the whole operation without any outside assistance for the first 8 months, and even though only invited a few friends in because they were cool people and it was getting lonely out there. I did this while working full time, going to school, and maintaining a social life. Weekly upkeep was honestly about 2-3 hours. On days when I didn't want to play, I'd log in each morning and night for 5-10 minutes, check d-scan, dotlan, and see if any inbound holes were there besides the static. Basically, 10-20 minutes a day for intel updates and just checking to see things were going well. When fuel needed to be moved it was not hard, as long as you timed it around a good exit hole. You'd keep total hauling time pretty low that way. Upkeep costs including station and ammo and such rose to 50 mil a week by the end of it all, which could be made in 2 hours. Fuel runs were done every 3 weeks on average, and timed around good exits to keep hauling short and time efficient. So yeah. 2-3 hours a week, minimum, including fuel hauling and breaking even on upkeep costs. Everything beyond that was pure profit. You think you need to make this game a full time job, you're doing it wrong.
Zirse Minmatar Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.08.17 23:05:00 - [27] Originally by: Cearain I have heard some people say it can be casual and others say its not. On the whole I think casual is a relative term. I think I tend to find those who say its not casual more credible for how I understand credible. Joining large fleets blobbing around and ***ing kms doesn't sound fun to me. NPC null sec sounds decent. But when I look at corp recruitment threads that are there it seems they always are after active players. Or it seems they want someone to hang out with. Or some other type of language where they don't want too much of this or too much of that. Show me the corps where you can join a gang whenever perhaps, 1 time every 2 or 3 months. The rest of the time you can be solo or do what you want. Also where you don't have to be online at any time just whenever. In other words I really don't need a computer game to give me any* obligations what so ever. For me FW is a much better fit. I can fly solo and don't have to always wait for a fleet to form. (which can take 45 minutes) I mainly sign on for short time periods and don't want to join a gang only to have to abandon them at a moments notice. Maybe for large blobs abandoning them is no big deal but in small scale pvp this can be a real problem. If you only want to fleet up once every two or three months why even bother with a corp? Why even bother with EVE at all? Go play X3 or something.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Amarr Divine Power. Atlas.	Posted - 2011.08.17 23:11:00 - [28] pvp once every 2-3 months? do you make your isk via courier missions or something?
Morganta	Posted - 2011.08.17 23:15:00 - [29] yar, seems pretty pointless to play eve with that fleet schedule. and null is hard, but not the way you think and its by no means a job unless you make it one.
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2011.08.18 01:38:00 - [30] Originally by: Morganta yar, seems pretty pointless to play eve with that fleet schedule. and null is hard, but not the way you think and its by no means a job unless you make it one. Quote: pvp once every 2-3 months? do you make your isk via courier missions or something? You two seem to be missing the point. Fleet ops can require several uninterrupted hours. A lot of people just cannot do that save for rare occasions. It's called life. Sounds like the rest of his eve time may be frequent or not, but made up of short time periods, 30 minutes, an hour....what have you. For those people there is only hisec. And don't tell me that you can spend that little time and live in null. Technically, sure. Practically, no way. Try setting up a POS in that amount of time. Won't happen. Try defending a POS in that amount of time. Yeah right. Try attacking a POS in an hour, you're joking yourself. Try forming a decent sized fleet. If you're lucky, everyone will have their sh*t together and you'll get that fleet going in 30 minutes. Then it's pointless to even continue because nothing is going to happen within the 30 minutes you have left. For everything outside of highsec, Eve is not a casual game. You guys who say you play casually and live in null, please tell us how much time you play. I think the vast majority of nullsec'ers are deluding themselves. The only place you can reliably invest as little as 45 minutes in the game and complete a mission or what not is in hisec. And CCP is nerfing it. Cudo's to CCP making it even more pointless for the casual player to play the game.



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