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Primer Xenius
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Posted - 2005.03.02 02:37:00 -
[91]
Since Celestial whats to bring this to the forums for a public discussion, I'll happily take part. You can contact me ingame also.
Firstly, the 'allies' are forged from a long conflict with CA. In the aftermath of that great war, we have a vested interest in keeping the peace around our areas.
Having said that, the allies have different policies of operation in 0.0. ATUK has recently declared that everyone is fair game outside their buddy list. XETIC and SE operate differently. I can only speak accurate for XETIC. We have always been anti-piratical. Anyone in 0.0 space not on our KOS list is a neutral and as such left alone. The exception is in our space where a warning is generally given to leave before hostilities begin.
The issue that comes up is that Celestial regards ATUK as a pirate group which 'will forever be KOS'. There seems to be next to no willingness from both sides to resolve this.
SE get involved when ATUK is attacked in a common gang and although SE is not a piratical alliance, they become KOS of Celestial. The piratical claims gets weaker.
Finally, XETIC, which shares a defense pact with SE gets involved because they fly in gangs with SE near our regions. SE gets attacked and our XETIC pilots shot back. Yet XETIC is hardly piratical.
The sad fact here is that if there was a common willingness to resolve the sitation via compromise from all sides instead of the endless arrogance, Celestial could be shooting targets far more relevant to its anti-piratical goals.
"we all know CA planned to attack Xetic "when the time was right" from day1" - Lallante
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Captain Vinar
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Posted - 2005.03.02 02:41:00 -
[92]
Gosh the more i teach you the dummer I get...
Celes for your information mostly fights in 0.0
Its only recently Monkiboy that the we have been fighting in empire.
Once again, you really DONT know what you are talking about.
And since i dont see you in any kill or loss mails. I see you are another knowitall who claims more than he is..
Take time to deliberate, but when the time for action has arrived, stop thinking and go in.
Napoleon Bonaparte (1769 - 1821) |
looMin uS
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Posted - 2005.03.02 03:22:00 -
[93]
At page 2, I skipped to 5, then scrolled to the end...did Celes get there answer...? 
2005.03.13 13:11:52]Niazi>but u had guts to come back in[ 2005.03.13 13:12:02]Niazi>most ppl are sissies and dont turn up for a fight |
Specops
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Posted - 2005.03.02 03:36:00 -
[94]
 Originally by: Captain Vinar
Its only recently Monkiboy that the we have been fighting in empire.
The alliance war with SE has going on for how long now? I thought so...
~Specops~ |
Kerosene
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Posted - 2005.03.02 03:47:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Kerosene on 02/03/2005 03:47:42
Originally by: looMin uS
At page 2, I skipped to 5, then scrolled to the end...did Celes get there answer...?
Yes they did, it's just they are too self-righteous to realise what they were told  We're not the alliance they should be pestering.
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Malken
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Posted - 2005.03.02 04:31:00 -
[96]
Originally by: CYVOK
Sir,
On behalf of Xetic give me 48 hours to straightne this out. To my knoledge their should not have been any conflicting information.
My reply to you should have been rather straight forward.
However as Xetic always strives to maintain a positive relationship with the rest of EvE I will rehash with the others in Xetic leadership and allow our main diplomat to get back to you.
I however do not expect my origional answer to change.
By bringing this out in the open I can only assume you are looking for an "official" xetic post that will in your mind give you the right to declare Xetic Pirates as well.
I hope that is not the case as Celes and Xetic have always strived to stay on the "correct" side of the "good vs evil" battle lines.
Cyvok do read first and dont try to put words in our mouths that we havent put there.
the relations between Xetic and Celest has always been a good one.
and i personally would not like to shoot at Xetic.
id rather shoot at FOE or SE for that matter.
the answers Cawt has been given earlier has been contradicting eachother and the actions of some Xetic members ahve not been in line what Cawt has been informed of at all.
to me that looks like a grave miscomunication, nothing more.
dont make it more then it needs to be.
and as for all the other asshats in this thread, all enemies and Xetic really shouldnt talk about something they have no idea about.
Originally by: Graelyn
"We're at war with you, and you FIRED on us! I am so telling CONCORD!"
Quote:
[18:46:36] Weebear > WTS Electric Golf Cart, 1 careful owner. Phone Rome 555 6567
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slip66
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Posted - 2005.03.02 04:33:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Monkiboy
it's subjective, as it's dependant on your point of view, and who your point of view serves.
Calling someone a pirate is just a derogatary term for something all PvP'ers do in this game- kill in 0.0,
Monkiboy
excellent points!
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Kirex
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Posted - 2005.03.02 04:38:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Malken
<snip>
and as for all the other asshats in this thread, all enemies and Xetic really shouldnt talk about something they have no idea about.
Then why did you guys post on a PUBLIC forum?
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Hoozin
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Posted - 2005.03.02 05:02:00 -
[99]
There are how many thousands of pirates in this game?
If we gang with ATUK or SE (I still don't know all of the politics behind this right now and frankly I don't give a ****), we aren't gonna be the first ones to fire. If our gangmates are fired on, then goodbye to the attackers - CELES or otherwise (unless of course we get spanked).
If you don't have to have this issue, then stay out of Catch (flame away if you want). If you want to go backdoor on FOE, you don't need to touch Immensea, Omist, Feythabolis, Tenerfris, or Impass, so wtf is the point of telling us that we share common goals so you should be able to come through our space. The borders have been closed since I started playing this game (yeah, I'm a nublet). That hasn't changed. Unless you are a member of XF, a trial member of XF, or whatever that other designation we have is, you aren't allowed in our space, plain and simple.
The enemy of my friend is my enemy. While we have always had positive relations with CELES, they are not friends.
The enemy of my friend is my friend. True neutrality was only ever accomplished by Switzerland (and a couple others, but I hate history/current events classes).
---------------------------------
The forums are so much smoother if you just don't read any posts by [UDIE]. More specifically Shin Ra's. |
Specops
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Posted - 2005.03.02 06:06:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Malken
the relations between Xetic and Celest has always been a good one.
Those relations became strained the day CELES destoryed that ATUK BS.
~Specops~ |
Cowboy
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Posted - 2005.03.02 07:41:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Cowboy on 02/03/2005 07:43:59
Originally by: Specops
Originally by: Malken
the relations between Xetic and Celest has always been a good one.
Those relations became strained the day CELES destoryed that ATUK BS.
And continues to be strained each time an XF pilot, targets, shoots, heads for SE loot cans of destroyed ships and relays intel to our enemies.
On the FOE topic. FOE will always be targets for us, due to what they stand for. We have fought them on numorus occasions and will continue to do so in the future.
@ XF: As it stands only a small minority of or corp want to KOS you folks. A large number do not.I'm sure some of you remember when we first declared on SE a few months back, we also declared on ya'll for aiding SE. From what I recall your leaders told us your pilots would not get involved in the fight. We were asked to retract the war and we did. Well despite us retracting the war your pilots continue commit acts that are not helping our relationship.
But this has come to ahead and we have been paid a bunch of lip service from various people. Hence the reason we have brought this topic to the public forums. I can feel the tide changing on both sides and the numbers are growing in the 'yes to KOS' camps.
If you like, i'll make it easy by turning into an arrogant jerk off. If XF claims HED (Catch) then so be it. Me, I will continue to fly in HED and engage who ever is there thats considered hostile to me or my corp be it SE, BoB or the late night russian pirates. If XF wants to start firing on me for being there then so be it.
"Come on God. Answer me. For years I am asking you why. Why are
the innocent dead and the guilty alive? Where is justice? Where is
punishment? Or have you already answered? Have you already said to the
world, here is justice, here is punishment, here..............in me"
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Specops
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Posted - 2005.03.02 08:18:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Cowboy
Edited by: Cowboy on 02/03/2005 07:43:59
Originally by: Specops
Originally by: Malken
the relations between Xetic and Celest has always been a good one.
Those relations became strained the day CELES destoryed that ATUK BS.
And continues to be strained each time an XF pilot, targets, shoots, heads for SE loot cans of destroyed ships and relays intel to our enemies.
What can I say it is your corp who put us in a difficult position. If it comes down to either side asking us to take sides I don't think anyone in XETIC will choose CELES over SE/ATUK.
~Specops~ |
HavokTBP
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Posted - 2005.03.02 08:23:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Originally by: Cawt Yrmanlookin
Thank you alts and people that this doesn't concern for responding. We are asking a simple question and as usual, people read and see the parts they want. 
Xetic is asked where exactly they stand and exactly what your "MDT/NAP" with ATUK and co/SE intales and what your stance is on piracy while being npped with a whole group of them. Pretty simple question to answer. I think all the people involved with Xetic deserve at least that so we know EXACTLY where we all stand. Killing one corp in a defensive treaty and not another is quite confusing for both sides.
You only posted here to start a flame war.
You knew the correct channels before you posted so maybe you might want to remember that in future.
Jost you've been in so many different alliances you have no say in anything just as much as I do.
Member of the Curse Alliance before the Corruption
Leader of The Black Plague.
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Renox
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Posted - 2005.03.02 09:07:00 -
[104]
Originally by: CYVOK
...
By bringing this out in the open I can only assume you are looking for an "official" xetic post that will in your mind give you the right to declare Xetic Pirates as well.
...
This is not about declaring Xetic pirates or any such thing. This is about how we react to your pilots when meeting them in 0.0 space. Like if you say that you will shoot us anywhere because we are at war with your allies SE, then fair enough we know that and will act appropriately. If you say you only shoot us if we attack SE and you are in the same system, that will also help us decide how to act.
and thanks for the nice reply. :)
"
While Celestial Apoc is filled with smack talking, safespot hugging, gate cudling, empire war exploiting |
Primer Xenius
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Posted - 2005.03.02 09:18:00 -
[105]
Quote:
Originally by: Kerosene
Removed - Saucerhead
This is the pure reason why I don't particular like Celes and think they are up themselves. Our xetic diplomats have their work cut out imo.
You can consider yourself lucky that im not a diplomat, i would not have gone to this length to sort it, while it is clearly obvious you cant seem to answer a simple question. And to every one else who poked their head into this thread, stay the **** out this has nothing to do with you.
You are arrogant and offensive and do your corporation little service on these boards with your personal insults.
I'm going to comment very little until the diplomatic discussions are dead and buried. However, one thing that is a sure bet is that XETIC will be defending SE pilots near our areas. The only possible solution is a common agreement to stop firing all around. This can be tied to various policy changes regarding behaviour towards 0.0 neutral (though XF for one is less likely to shoot them than celestial anyhow). Regardless, all of this requires dialogue ingame.
"we all know CA planned to attack Xetic "when the time was right" from day1" - Lallante
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Primer Xenius
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Posted - 2005.03.02 09:23:00 -
[106]
Quote:
This is not about declaring Xetic pirates or any such thing. This is about how we react to your pilots when meeting them in 0.0 space. Like if you say that you will shoot us anywhere because we are at war with your allies SE, then fair enough we know that and will act appropriately. If you say you only shoot us if we attack SE and you are in the same system, that will also help us decide how to act.
and thanks for the nice reply. :)
The current policy is to treat Celestial as neutral unless Celestial attacks us or our friends in a common gang. Having said that, I believe a far better solution could be formulated, so Celestial can concentrate its anti-piratical enegies on more relevant evil piratical forces. 
"we all know CA planned to attack Xetic "when the time was right" from day1" - Lallante
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Elenia Kheynes
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Posted - 2005.03.02 10:01:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Renox
Originally by: CYVOK
...
By bringing this out in the open I can only assume you are looking for an "official" xetic post that will in your mind give you the right to declare Xetic Pirates as well.
...
This is not about declaring Xetic pirates or any such thing. This is about how we react to your pilots when meeting them in 0.0 space. Like if you say that you will shoot us anywhere because we are at war with your allies SE, then fair enough we know that and will act appropriately. If you say you only shoot us if we attack SE and you are in the same system, that will also help us decide how to act.
and thanks for the nice reply. :)
What's the next step ? Celes taging along with FoE against us ?
Dear friendly customer... Can I have your money ?
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Eenkie
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Posted - 2005.03.02 10:16:00 -
[108]
Page 1, reply no.4
Quote:
dude if you need someone to contact please visit
www.xetic.org
I am sure our people will like to discuss this with you in person rather than posting on these boards.
These are our diplomats:
Primer Xenius [HC], Australian
Duncan [FND], Eastern American
lachenlaud [GOI], Western American
Lwen [CoRM], European Denmark
We also have a president:
Conram
And Vice President:
Cyvok
I have cut this from our diplomatic contacts section I hope this helps.
This thread should have died then. CELES wanted to keep it public instead of following the proper protocols and come back with:
Quote:
Thank you alts and people that this doesn't concern for responding. We are asking a simple question and as usual, people read and see the parts they want.
You got an answer. It was that this is not the place to ask the question, but you ignored it, so you asked again:
Quote:
Xetic is asked where exactly they stand...
With SE/ATUK
Quote:
...and exactly what your "MDT/NAP" with ATUK and co/SE intales
None of your business
Quote:
and what your stance is on piracy while being npped with a whole group of them. Pretty simple question to answer.
Thats a matter of opinion.
At the bottom of page 1
Quote:
I have evemailed and chatted and I get 2 stories from the same alliance.
But you didn't post on the xetic site with the link provided? Obviously, it occured to you that you may have been in contact with 2 (or more) different people in different time zones who haven't had contact with each other? Which is one reason why you were directed there in the first place.
All the answers you seek are on the first page and again several times in varying detail throughout so why are we still being asked to answer "a simple question"?
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Nepereta
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Posted - 2005.03.02 10:18:00 -
[109]
Peace sounds like a good idea, SE aren't an evil force nor really are Atuk. Guys TBH This whole war started by accident. Perhaps if you are not too entrenched in the blood letting we might be able to see an end to this pointless tit for tat conflict.
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Thanit
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Posted - 2005.03.02 10:24:00 -
[110]
I know Primer and some of the old XF folks like diplomacy more then is good for them.
But this is getting ridiculous.
CELES is simply asking you to not fire on their ships if they attack SE near to you. This means no shared-gang incidents and ****. You know you can't do that since SE is far more important to XF and v.v. then Celes can ever be a threat.
So really, cut it short already, Celes declare empire gank-and-hide war on XF and get it over with.
Tbh, last time I saw CELES doing something worthwhile was a year ago in their last GW invasion. Ever since they've been largely irrelevant, spending their time like a common empire space soft target ganking pirate corp.
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pHASE 11
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Posted - 2005.03.02 10:35:00 -
[111]
Best thread ever. Keep up the good work as I need something to laugh at when at work!
You received mixed messages from an alliance and you decide to "go public" and:
1) Tell the alliance how they should behave in their claimed space.
2) Tell the alliance who they friends shuold be and how they should work together with thir friends.
2) Claim that you're ridding the universe of all the scum.
4) Claim general population of eve is backing you because you're so nice people.
5) Informing the public that it's possible to receive mixed messages from an alliance consisting of 5156 members.
So what might be the reasons and goals for this little thread?
* Throw some mud at Xetic.
* A first step towards justifying a possible future war.
* Convincing the general eve public that you're the good-boys and decide who's the scum in eve are.
* That you're only giving alliances a helping hand.
* Receiving support from external people and people inside of Xetic.
* Continuing this weeks eve initative of having all threads in this forum locked.
You have met the first and soon the last of those six goals.
I'm sorry to report that you've failed miserably in the other four.
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Cowboy
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Posted - 2005.03.02 11:34:00 -
[112]
Originally by: pHASE 11
Best thread ever. Keep up the good work as I need something to laugh at when at work!
You received mixed messages from an alliance and you decide to "go public" and:
1) Tell the alliance how they should behave in their claimed space.
2) Tell the alliance who they friends shuold be and how they should work together with thir friends.
2) Claim that you're ridding the universe of all the scum.
4) Claim general population of eve is backing you because you're so nice people.
5) Informing the public that it's possible to receive mixed messages from an alliance consisting of 5156 members.
So what might be the reasons and goals for this little thread?
* Throw some mud at Xetic.
* A first step towards justifying a possible future war.
* Convincing the general eve public that you're the good-boys and decide who's the scum in eve are.
* That you're only giving alliances a helping hand.
* Receiving support from external people and people inside of Xetic.
* Continuing this weeks eve initative of having all threads in this forum locked.
You have met the first and soon the last of those six goals.
I'm sorry to report that you've failed miserably in the other four.
Nah, we really started this thread hoping idiots such as yourself would respond to something that has nothing to do with them
"Come on God. Answer me. For years I am asking you why. Why are
the innocent dead and the guilty alive? Where is justice? Where is
punishment? Or have you already answered? Have you already said to the
world, here is justice, here is punishment, here..............in me"
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Hast
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Posted - 2005.03.02 11:46:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Cowboy
Originally by: pHASE 11
Best thread ever. Keep up the good work as I need something to laugh at when at work!
You received mixed messages from an alliance and you decide to "go public" and:
1) Tell the alliance how they should behave in their claimed space.
2) Tell the alliance who they friends shuold be and how they should work together with thir friends.
2) Claim that you're ridding the universe of all the scum.
4) Claim general population of eve is backing you because you're so nice people.
5) Informing the public that it's possible to receive mixed messages from an alliance consisting of 5156 members.
So what might be the reasons and goals for this little thread?
* Throw some mud at Xetic.
* A first step towards justifying a possible future war.
* Convincing the general eve public that you're the good-boys and decide who's the scum in eve are.
* That you're only giving alliances a helping hand.
* Receiving support from external people and people inside of Xetic.
* Continuing this weeks eve initative of having all threads in this forum locked.
You have met the first and soon the last of those six goals.
I'm sorry to report that you've failed miserably in the other four.
Nah, we really started this thread hoping idiots such as yourself would respond to something that has nothing to do with them
yet again a reason for you to put it on a private forum instead of a public forum. I dont know why you guys do this, you know where it will end up in the end anyways, it just makes you guys look worse in the process...
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darth solo
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Posted - 2005.03.02 12:02:00 -
[114]
Stain and Xetic have a mixed message MDT...we are attacking SE, Xetic should have us at KOS according to this, no?...
All we want to know is if Xetic forces will fire on our ships in 0.0 outwith their space?... we dont wish to hear only on certain times.. only is this, or that happens... its a clear choice... we will be continuing our SE war... will Xetic forces fire on us?..
answer YES, or NO and we can lay this post to bed.
and to all sides, stop the personal attacks...
d solo.
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Nathan Voughn
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Posted - 2005.03.02 12:04:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Primer Xenius
Having said that, the allies have different policies of operation in 0.0. ATUK has recently declared that everyone is fair game outside their buddy list. XETIC and SE operate differently. I can only speak accurate for XETIC. We have always been anti-piratical. Anyone in 0.0 space not on our KOS list is a neutral and as such left alone. The exception is in our space where a warning is generally given to leave before hostilities begin.
Just to make a point here: What you just said is the definition of pirates. XETIC consideres none friendly people as neutral, hence they are not pirates, while others recently declared that none freindlys are going to be shot. Just because they state this in the public, it doesnt negate the fact that they are pirates.
They seem to have fun ganking people, good for them. Just make sure you see them as what they are.
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darth solo
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Posted - 2005.03.02 12:20:00 -
[116]
oh, almost forgot.... pirate is a loose term, and should not be discussed, if we think u are a pirate, u are to us... ppl have different opinions, and a forum discussion will not cure this.
drop the pirate talk... XETIC ARE YOU GONNA FIRE ON US?.
d solo.
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pHASE 11
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Posted - 2005.03.02 12:30:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Cowboy
Originally by: pHASE 11
<...snip...>
Nah, we really started this thread hoping idiots such as yourself would respond to something that has nothing to do with them
CELES <=> XETIC diplomatic conversation then use in-game official channels.
CELES <=> XETIC public discussion then use Xetic alliance forums
Open CELES <=> XETIC discussion with FYI all eve complete with random flames and laughs then post here.
This is obivous to most people except you.
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Woetra
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Posted - 2005.03.02 12:45:00 -
[118]
Quite a cleverly thought out post from Celes.
If Xetic back down it makes Celes look good, and be considered a setback by SE.
If Xetic take the bait then Celes get to gank them without being called pirates, which seems to be what they are pushing for.
Whilst it is nice to see that Celes are managing their inner demons, I must maintain that this kind of coercion is not the act of an honourable anti-pirate corp.
Kind of reminds me of when Techell hung out with m0o. Everyone in Eve went to shoot Techell, thinking that they were hurting m0o and fighting pirates when in fact they were just ganking noobs. m0o are prolly still laughing about that one.
Celes I think your perversion of the good guy image brands you amongst the worst scammers in eve. Your lies are paper thin and your hulls will be treated to match..... well they would if I still played this game anyway.
Sig Thief
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Maasu
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Posted - 2005.03.02 12:51:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Renox
Originally by: Monkiboy
Where can one find -9.9 pirates in empire?
you do realise that us being against piracy and generally shooting pirates when we can doesn't mean that we will not shot on (in the public openion) good groups that wrong us, right?
The latter is the main reason we are shooting SE, they wronged us and are now paying for it.
If that is the reason you are at war with SE, then stop calling them pirates.
ATUK, The Forlorn Hope of Corps. |
Lo3d3R
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Posted - 2005.03.02 13:11:00 -
[120]
xetic is doing everything with there vicious politics to get things done they want to, call on big broter SE when they want, declare pirates to non-pirates when its suits them, they take no standpoint, just a bunch of oppertunists.
I say Celes kill the xetic scum, for they are the real pirates in this game, and SE offcourse beeing there gulleble dumb big brother, however i hope SE wises up someday.
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