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Cpt Tunguska
Minmatar In for the Kill Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
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Posted - 2011.08.24 09:05:00 -
[1]
Currently most of conquerable space in eve-online is owned by one single supercap coalition. They are forming huge Titan spams and kill off everything in their way, without the slightest chance to counter this playstyle. Right now the last independant alliance is under fire. They will fall soon, they dont have a chance to beat the Titan blobs and doomsday spams. Subcapital ships and capitals cant do anything beside dieing in horrible lag, caused by hundrets of supercarriers and their 20 fighters each.
I just want to ask the question:
WHEN?
How hard is it to nerf 2 shipclasses to make room for a more diverse playstyle? What takes that much time? Just remove them from frontlines by reducing their stats by 95% and make subcaps/capital ships the major players again, like it was before Dominion Thats the only way to save the server from beeing 100% uniform.
Supercaps were buffed with dominion, and it made sense at this time. They were more or less evenly distibuted amongst different alliances. But then something happened ccp could not reckon with: Most supercap heavy alliances like IT (rdn), PL, NCdot, Evoke, white noise, red and many others banded together and formed one huge supercap-alliance, which is currently burning down the server, just by jumping in titans/scs. And once it formed up, individual supercap pilots kept running to them, just to make it worse.
This heavily uneven distrubution of supercaps cant be ever reversed. Like 80% of all acive pvping supercaps play in the same team. Theres no counter and no hope with current game mechanics. Remove DDs, remove Titans!
Dot it now
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Tish Magev
Caldari Nex Exercitus Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.08.24 09:33:00 -
[2]
Would you like some cheese with your whine?
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Ventro69
Caldari Manson Family Corcoran State
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Posted - 2011.08.24 09:35:00 -
[3]
The more space "they" take and not live in, the more I get to plex in peace. Buff titans and SC's!!!!
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Lups
Caldari Pandora Sphere Narwhals Ate My Duck
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Posted - 2011.08.24 09:42:00 -
[4]
Teeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh CEO
Beware The Badgers Of Doom!! |
Pinky Denmark
Caldari The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.08.24 10:27:00 -
[5]
Don't hold your breath unless you can hold it for 3-6 months |
Headerman
Minmatar Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.08.24 11:13:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Headerman on 24/08/2011 11:13:32
Originally by: Cpt Tunguska WHEN?
[Aeon, 166million + EHP] Corpus X-Type Armor EM Hardener Corpus X-Type Armor Thermic Hardener Corpus X-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener Corpus X-Type Armor Explosive Hardener Corpus X-Type Armor Thermic Hardener Corpus X-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener Corpus X-Type Armor Explosive Hardener Corpus X-Type Armor EM Hardener
Federation Navy Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
True Sansha Large EMP Smartbomb True Sansha Heavy Energy Neutralizer True Sansha Heavy Energy Neutralizer Remote ECM Burst I Capital Murky Energy Transmitter I Capital Coaxial Regenerative Projector
Large Trimark Armor Pump II Large Trimark Armor Pump II Large Trimark Armor Pump II
Tyrfing x20 Firbolg x10 Bouncer II x20 Warrior II x20
Hopefully never. i need more than 166 million EHP from my Aeon :/
Seriously, if the OP can't think of a counter to that, then they need to rethink their purpose is in 0.0 space |
Reami Sotsku
Minmatar CRUX CORPORATE ARMADA
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Posted - 2011.08.24 11:33:00 -
[7]
create another capital class entirely? something cool, like a dred with 4 gunz and 10 fighters. and then an extra 10k in respective tank to a dred (shield or armor)super carrier pilots would cry. isk would flow since its an entirely new ship class it wouldn't be over powered until ppl got enough of them to start to make a difference. Once it does become over powered make another capital class, or make marauders viable in PvP.
or another simple fix is, keep super caps the same and make every ship in the game 15% better damage, tank, pg, cpu, ect... then make the moduals follow after this move so then sub-cap fleets can live just a bit longer to make a difference i mean imagine BS's doings some cool stuffs to big ships again. |
Peregrine
Caldari Destructive Influence Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.08.24 11:46:00 -
[8]
Sell a lot of gtc's get 110B and buy my titan and character, then you can stop whinning about people having **** that they spent 5 years in game earning the isk to buy. |
Ventro69
Caldari Manson Family Corcoran State
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Posted - 2011.08.24 11:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Reami Sotsku make every ship in the game 15% better damage
Something wrong with you? Imagine, if just one sperm beat you, your parents could have had a doctor. |
Snot Shot
Minmatar Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2011.08.24 11:54:00 -
[10]
Honestly I am hoping that CCP buffs the Dreads seeing as I just started training for this class of ship even though, of all ship classes, this one seems to have absolutely no roll at this point in the game.
Once this happens I plan to camp the EC- gate with my Nagàààà..cloaked up as alwaysà. .
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Headerman
Minmatar Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.08.24 12:11:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Reami Sotsku create another capital class entirely? something cool, like a dred with 4 gunz and 10 fighters. and then an extra 10k in respective tank to a dred (shield or armor)super carrier pilots would cry. isk would flow since its an entirely new ship class it wouldn't be over powered until ppl got enough of them to start to make a difference. Once it does become over powered make another capital class, or make marauders viable in PvP.
or another simple fix is, keep super caps the same and make every ship in the game 15% better damage, tank, pg, cpu, ect... then make the moduals follow after this move so then sub-cap fleets can live just a bit longer to make a difference i mean imagine BS's doings some cool stuffs to big ships again.
I think another cap is the best idea...
T2 dread, or a new class that is about 1/3rd or 1/2 the cost of a SC, has abouta third to half the HPs, 3/4 the damage, but either no jump drive what so ever (has to use gates) or a very limted jump drive...
No siege module (or maybe it should?), big drone bay too, and maybe a bonus to smart bomb usage |
Zilero
Gallente Havoc Violence and Chaos B O R G
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Posted - 2011.08.24 12:54:00 -
[12]
The easy solution:
Play another game.
I'll see how the nerf works out, if it doesn't agree with me, I'm gone.
The "I WIN" button is simply ******ed.
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Gotmah swaggaback
Caldari Hells Angels MC
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Posted - 2011.08.24 12:56:00 -
[13]
Heh, in all seriousness. Not saying supercarriers arent overpowered or nuthin but.
Op is stupid. His argument, most of the people flying supercaps decided to fight under the same banner. And one smaller coalition with lesser hardware cannot fight this blob of supercaps?
Well duh yeah, what did you expect? To kill 100 sc's with drakes? Sense sir, you make absolutely none. I too believe super's are kiinda ruining the game and needs rebalancing. My suggestion would be to simply remove one target dd and perhaps give titans more turret/missile damage a bit of a boost to capital and structures. And remove everything but fighters and fighterbombers from the supercarrier dronebay, or atleast lower the limit "normal" drone limit to 5 without bonused damage to them.
This would mean that a supercap blob of lets say an arbitrary number of 100 would pose pretty much no threat to a subcap fleet at all. unless they get smartbombed or decide to sit completely still. But you get the idea. So yeah this would mean the **** would still be useful for capital fights and structure grinds. But atleast it wont single handedly wtfpwn a well put togheter subcap fleet. And to be honest, this is the only problem with supers atm.
Supercaps ARE supposed to be good against other capital ships. And IF one coalition happens to have more supercaps then the other, well then it kinda makes sense they should have a greater chance to win provided both coalitions doesnt suck at using them?
Slugfests isnt the only way to win a war, this is a sandbox game and if you're completely outmatched in hardware, you either need to fight smarter or GTFO.
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LiMu Bai
Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.08.24 13:21:00 -
[14]
Edited by: LiMu Bai on 24/08/2011 13:29:26
Originally by: Gotmah swaggaback
.......outmatched in hardware, you either need to fight smarter or GTFO.
How do you fight smarter vs. 40ish Titans?
Also ideas like new super-supercaps to kill supercaps are misleading, since they also would be I-win buttons vs. subcaps.
From my pov NPC 0.0 space is currently spilling over of alliances which got kicked out of their homes by TEAM SUPERCAP. In few weeks there wont be any room left to breath, lol. North or South....ppl are everywhere abandoning their space and retreat into npc stations, cause it doesnt make any sense to resist vs. this superblob.
There are only 2 ways to end the misery:
1. Team Supercap un-naps each other and everybody starts to do their own stuff. -> This will probably never happen. They stick together for nearly 1.5 years now. They initially formed up and killed the Atlas-block and literally never stopped flying together, they even extended their bluelists and more supercap allies joined them. They will never stop doing "supercap-blobbing".
2. CCP acts. Like they always do if one ship/tactics is unbalanced and is over-used. -> This will probably work. I'd rather prefer useless supercaps (like pre-dominion) as POS ornaments, than having all of eve dominated by one coalition, just cause they can field hundrets supers. My favority is to nerf them that badly no one uses them anymore.
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DeadDuck
Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.08.24 14:18:00 -
[15]
TBH the best way to balance the game would be a buff to dreads/Carriers. SC's are so overpowered and the numbers being fielded are so high that only buffing other ship classes the game can be balanced again. That or an abyssal nerf to SC's that TBH would be unfair for all the people that invested a lot of resources in buy/fitting them.
Why not allow sieged dreads to move but unable to receive RR for instance ? CCP by only allowing this would create a turning point in Alliance warfare.This is only an example but TBH the best way for this SC inflation to end is actually revamp Capitals.
During the MAX II war I've passed most of my time in a Dread fighting. During the DRF war in a BS... I think for more then an year now that I don't actually use a Dread to fight other ships. Not even shooting structures anymore. Caps and specially Dreads are completly outdated and they shouldn't.
Strength and Honour |
Pinky Denmark
Caldari The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.08.24 14:20:00 -
[16]
Making supers useless is a bad idea - they should instead be very nice so people want to use them. But at the same time using them should have a real risc of losing them. They are currently so massive they don't fear anything but a bigger capital fleet. -
I'm a nice guy!! But plz hook me up with some pew pew... |
Egdon Heath
Caldari Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.24 14:21:00 -
[17]
You all are idiots. Buffing a ship class or adding another OP ship to the game only continues to break the game further. There are far better ways of managing super-capital class ships than buffing. Small nerfs are far more reasonable and will balance game play for a far longer period of time (at least until ccp does something else ridiculously stupid).
A far more viable option to buffing ships would be to nerf super-capital tracking so they cannot reliably track sub-capital ships. It is ridiculous for titans to be able to reliably DD or shoot with guns cruiser sized ships, however they frequently do so (opposing logistics and command ships being likely targets). Nerf their ability to easily shoot sup-capital ships, and it increases the need for them to have a support fleet. They should still be able to wreak havoc upon capitals, super-capitals, and structures, but without a support fleet, an opposing sub-capital fleet should be able to slowly chew through them.
I don't, however, oppose a small buff to dreadnoughts, as they have largely become obsolete in this game of super-capitals. Make them relevant at least, but not OP.
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Nik W
Caldari Critical Mass Inc. Imperial 0rder
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Posted - 2011.08.24 14:36:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Egdon Heath You all are idiots. Buffing a ship class or adding another OP ship to the game only continues to break the game further. There are far better ways of managing super-capital class ships than buffing. Small nerfs are far more reasonable and will balance game play for a far longer period of time (at least until ccp does something else ridiculously stupid).
A far more viable option to buffing ships would be to nerf super-capital tracking so they cannot reliably track sub-capital ships. It is ridiculous for titans to be able to reliably DD or shoot with guns cruiser sized ships, however they frequently do so (opposing logistics and command ships being likely targets). Nerf their ability to easily shoot sup-capital ships, and it increases the need for them to have a support fleet. They should still be able to wreak havoc upon capitals, super-capitals, and structures, but without a support fleet, an opposing sub-capital fleet should be able to slowly chew through them.
I don't, however, oppose a small buff to dreadnoughts, as they have largely become obsolete in this game of super-capitals. Make them relevant at least, but not OP.
WTH is the world coming to when the most sensible post in a thread is from a Goon?
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LiMu Bai
Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.08.24 14:38:00 -
[19]
Edited by: LiMu Bai on 24/08/2011 14:40:17
Originally by: DeadDuck TBH the best way to balance the game would be a buff to dreads/Carriers. SC's are so overpowered and the numbers being fielded are so high that only buffing other ship classes the game can be balanced again. That or an abyssal nerf to SC's that TBH would be unfair for all the people that invested a lot of resources in buy/fitting them.
Why not allow sieged dreads to move but unable to receive RR for instance ? CCP by only allowing this would create a turning point in Alliance warfare.This is only an example but TBH the best way for this SC inflation to end is actually revamp Capitals.
During the MAX II war I've passed most of my time in a Dread fighting. During the DRF war in a BS... I think for more then an year now that I don't actually use a Dread to fight other ships. Not even shooting structures anymore. Caps and specially Dreads are completly outdated and they shouldn't.
Well.
Considering current fleet compositions you will loose up to 80 Dreads to doomsdays in the first 10 minutes of the fight. Even with newly designed Siegemode (which would be neccessary afte that many years) you can only die vs superfleets. And DDs are just one weapon, there are still fighterbombers and titanguns which will wtf**** all your capitals. As long as there are mass doomsdays every 10 minutes of 3million dmg each you CANT field capitals. Nor BS....nor..logis.....nor command ships :( In fact you cant do anything.... Best choice is to log off & unsub.
Edit: You need to force supers completly off the field.....abbyssal nerf sounds fine.
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Egdon Heath
Caldari Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.24 15:01:00 -
[20]
Originally by: LiMu Bai
Well.
Considering current fleet compositions you will loose up to 80 Dreads to doomsdays in the first 10 minutes of the fight. Even with newly designed Siegemode (which would be neccessary afte that many years) you can only die vs superfleets. And DDs are just one weapon, there are still fighterbombers and titanguns which will wtf**** all your capitals. As long as there are mass doomsdays every 10 minutes of 3million dmg each you CANT field capitals. Nor BS....nor..logis.....nor command ships :( In fact you cant do anything.... Best choice is to log off & unsub.
Edit: You need to force supers completly off the field.....abbyssal nerf sounds fine.
Making supers vulnerable to sub-capitals does this. Or forces supers to always be escorted by support fleets. A small boost to dreadnoughts could make them far more viable/dangerous to super-capital fleets as well without making them OP. Therefore, dropping 40-50 dreadnoughts onto supers for a suicide siege cycle could net 3-5 kills and make the losses relatively worthwhile. Dreads should not be buffed to the point where supers cannot reliably/easily kill them, however (as this essentially negates the role of super-capitals entirely).
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Oscasre
Amarr Anger Management
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Posted - 2011.08.24 15:07:00 -
[21]
Titans and Supers are fine .......... the problem is the number off them.
Increase the build requirements by x 10 and watch the numbers decline.
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Egdon Heath
Caldari Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.24 15:09:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Oscasre Titans and Supers are fine .......... the problem is the number off them.
Increase the build requirements by x 10 and watch the numbers decline.
Wrong. As long as they are as OP as they are, alliances, corps, and individuals will still buy them. This also does not affect the current number of supers or their efficacy, only the amount that may be built in the future, so it does not serve to solve any kind of problems.
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Ur235
Gallente Mind Games. 0ccupational Hazzard
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Posted - 2011.08.24 15:18:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Ur235 on 24/08/2011 15:24:33
I think the best way to even it out would be to limit the amount of supercaps avaiable to deploy per alliance. No idea what a good limit would be but it would be and also to reduce there jump range hugely so if you have all your supers deployed along 1 front then someone else decides to attack you somewhere else it would take like 15 capital jumps to get back to where you want to be and increase the fuel costs for supers like 10000 isotopes per lightyear and the fuel bay can only hold about 40k isotopes sure there supercarrier costs 14X more than a normal carrier but I think therefore its only fair the fuel costs to jump it around should also be 14X more as expensive
So not only would you have to jump a hell of alot more to move your supers over eve the fuel costs would become horrendus for something like 100 supers infact it would be so high it would be almost impossible to obtain enough fuel of each type to move halfway across the galaxy. So they decide to only take 20 instead of 100 and everyone else will be reduced to either running sites with their super cap character or get rid of it all togeather and jump in a subcap to get involved in the fight im sure that would make the supers coalition happy.
Obv this would favour the defending side if there supers were already in there home systems though and might make someones home space impenetrable but at least we would have alot more 0.0 alliances around and alot less supers being built as they can only commit so many to an attack
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Oscasre
Amarr Anger Management
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Posted - 2011.08.24 15:22:00 -
[24]
Quote: Wrong. As long as they are as OP as they are, alliances, corps, and individuals will still buy them. This also does not affect the current number of supers or their efficacy, only the amount that may be built in the future, so it does not serve to solve any kind of problems.
Complete Rubbish .... they have been built unchecked for years and in your own admission increasing the build cost by 10 x would effect the future .....
The ships are fine the problem is the numbers like most things in this game .......
Remove Titans and Supers and the alliances will be sitting at the gates in 1000 Caps, remove them and it will be a 1000 BS and ditto .... All capitals need the build time and minerals increasing by x 10 and then the numbers will drop
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Egdon Heath
Caldari Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.24 15:44:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Oscasre
Quote: Wrong. As long as they are as OP as they are, alliances, corps, and individuals will still buy them. This also does not affect the current number of supers or their efficacy, only the amount that may be built in the future, so it does not serve to solve any kind of problems.
Complete Rubbish .... they have been built unchecked for years and in your own admission increasing the build cost by 10 x would effect the future .....
The ships are fine the problem is the numbers like most things in this game .......
Remove Titans and Supers and the alliances will be sitting at the gates in 1000 Caps, remove them and it will be a 1000 BS and ditto .... All capitals need the build time and minerals increasing by x 10 and then the numbers will drop
So what does this do for fleets currently when an opposing supercap fleet can decimate your entire 200-500 man fleet within a matter of minutes? It does nothing. And moving forwards, it does little as well, as those entities with hundreds of supercaps will continue to build their numbers (albeit at a slower rate) and other smaller entities will continue to build their super-capital fleets (once again, at a slower rate) with the same game breaking mechanics. Without a reliable threat to super-capitals (or a reliable weakness within them) they are just purely OP.
I am not advocating removing supers at all. Merely balancing them in a manner that does not break them into uselessness, and not buffing something else in a manner that makes that ship now OP.
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Snyderm
Gallente Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.08.24 15:54:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Snyderm on 24/08/2011 15:55:05 oops
Because Gallante are the Washington Generals of EVE. |
White Tree
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Posted - 2011.08.24 16:03:00 -
[27]
DEATH TO SUPERCAPS.
DEATH TO TITANS. _______________________________________
Follow me on Twitter! |
Andski
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.24 16:22:00 -
[28]
Make supercaps either vulnerable to ewar or unable to receive tracking links and remote sensor boosts. Problem solved.
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Spectre80
Caldari The Knights Templar Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.08.24 16:30:00 -
[29]
Originally by: White Tree DEATH TO SUPERCAPS.
DEATH TO TITANS.
this. i know many people who are just waiting to see what ccp will do with this issue and if it is not sufficient most likely quit the game.
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Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.24 16:50:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Cpt Tunguska Currently most of conquerable space in eve-online is owned by one single supercap coalition. They are forming huge Titan spams and kill off everything in their way, without the slightest chance to counter this playstyle. Right now the last independant alliance is under fire. They will fall soon, they dont have a chance to beat the Titan blobs and doomsday spams. Subcapital ships and capitals cant do anything beside dieing in horrible lag, caused by hundrets of supercarriers and their 20 fighters each.
I just want to ask the question:
WHEN?
How hard is it to nerf 2 shipclasses to make room for a more diverse playstyle? What takes that much time? Just remove them from frontlines by reducing their stats by 95% and make subcaps/capital ships the major players again, like it was before Dominion Thats the only way to save the server from beeing 100% uniform.
Supercaps were buffed with dominion, and it made sense at this time. They were more or less evenly distibuted amongst different alliances. But then something happened ccp could not reckon with: Most supercap heavy alliances like IT (rdn), PL, NCdot, Evoke, white noise, red and many others banded together and formed one huge supercap-alliance, which is currently burning down the server, just by jumping in titans/scs. And once it formed up, individual supercap pilots kept running to them, just to make it worse.
This heavily uneven distrubution of supercaps cant be ever reversed. Like 80% of all acive pvping supercaps play in the same team. Theres no counter and no hope with current game mechanics. Remove DDs, remove Titans!
Dot it now
If you nerf supers to make sub caps 'matter again' (protip they matter now) then you need to re introduce the AOE DD so that sheer numbers aren't all that matters, again.
That time in EVE was as gay as it gets, and theres absolutely no reason to go back to 'xxxx number of ships means you wing'
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boliano
Caldari Fallen Angel's White Noise.
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Posted - 2011.08.24 17:12:00 -
[31]
Originally by: LiMu Bai Edited by: LiMu Bai on 24/08/2011 13:29:26
Originally by: Gotmah swaggaback
.......outmatched in hardware, you either need to fight smarter or GTFO.
How do you fight smarter vs. 40ish Titans?
Also ideas like new super-supercaps to kill supercaps are misleading, since they also would be I-win buttons vs. subcaps.
From my pov NPC 0.0 space is currently spilling over of alliances which got kicked out of their homes by TEAM SUPERCAP. In few weeks there wont be any room left to breath, lol. North or South....ppl are everywhere abandoning their space and retreat into npc stations, cause it doesnt make any sense to resist vs. this superblob.
There are only 2 ways to end the misery:
1. Team Supercap un-naps each other and everybody starts to do their own stuff. -> This will probably never happen. They stick together for nearly 1.5 years now. They initially formed up and killed the Atlas-block and literally never stopped flying together, they even extended their bluelists and more supercap allies joined them. They will never stop doing "supercap-blobbing".
2. CCP acts. Like they always do if one ship/tactics is unbalanced and is over-used. -> This will probably work. I'd rather prefer useless supercaps (like pre-dominion) as POS ornaments, than having all of eve dominated by one coalition, just cause they can field hundrets supers. My favority is to nerf them that badly no one uses them anymore.
Ok so an nc player saying we need to stop being a blob. lol oh the irony.. Ok lets see, the drf does have more supers then the current enemy, yes. But when u figure all the alliances that were supposed to help aaa they can field some serious supers themselves. Lets look at hed for instance.. Ok if AAA and co had been in system with there supers before us they would have had a sporting chance to hold the field once lag was present form the drf jumping in. And we know all too well all the turkey shoots that have taken place in eve due to this.... If u play eve and wont fight unless u know you can win or know u wont lose ur shiny toys then u shouldnt play. I hear they need miners in highsec...
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RDevz
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.24 17:29:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Oscasre Titans and Supers are fine .......... the problem is the number off them.
Increase the build requirements by x 10 and watch the numbers decline.
One of the myriad issues with this suggestion is that reducing the ability of people to get into supercaps, while not changing their efficacy, would have the net effect of making those power blocs who have already acquired an eye-watering number of the damn things even less susceptible to future hostilities.
Supercaps delenda est. |
ChicksDigMagnets
Minmatar Nasgul Collective Cascade Probable
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Posted - 2011.08.24 17:35:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Andski Make supercaps either vulnerable to ewar or unable to receive tracking links and remote sensor boosts. Problem solved.
This. A thousand times this.
Supers are the only ships in the game INVULNERABLE to ewar. How does that make sense?
CCP should implement a dread that can ewar supers. Because that makes sense for a super to have a remote ECM burst but they can't be ECM'd themselves.
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Psorion
Caldari Resilience. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.08.24 17:37:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
If you nerf supers to make sub caps 'matter again' (protip they matter now) then you need to re introduce the AOE DD so that sheer numbers aren't all that matters, again.
That time in EVE was as gay as it gets, and theres absolutely no reason to go back to 'xxxx number of ships means you wing'
Its just the Crybaby Coalition being mad about flying rifters and T1 Battleships.
Oh and the OP is wrong on the influence map.
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/influence.png
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Suitonia
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.08.24 17:39:00 -
[35]
Originally by: boliano
Ok so an nc player saying we need to stop being a blob. lol oh the irony..
The NC is dead.
---
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Anuqet
Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.24 17:59:00 -
[36]
lets make blob beat everything like it has for the last 8 years
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Ammon Dei
Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.08.24 18:02:00 -
[37]
Played several other sand box games. The servers in the end always end up the same.
Large group forms alliance, and starts to wipe out the majority of their competition. The rest of the server bands together to form a counter to the Large Alliance. The server ends up in a 2 sided war where 1/2 the server on one side and 1/2 the server on the other side.
The winning side pushes the other side so hard that many of them quit playing said game. And the population of the server goes down. The Winning Large alliance group has no targets and they many people too. The large alliance splits up and we rinse and repeat.
The end result is less people playing the game, and large tracks of unoccupied territory with virtually nothing moving in it.
THIS is what is currently happening in Eve. Game mechanics may contribute but it always ends up 1 side vs another side. With a winner and a loser. And less population on the server.
SO, enjoy Eve while we can, FYI plenty of small fights to be had in Faction Warfare.
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Centra Spike
Caldari Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 18:04:00 -
[38]
Hey Genos, I'm still waiting for you to give us back Laedy. Please re-size your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Ilvari
Gallente GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 18:09:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Grath Telkin If you nerf supers to make sub caps 'matter again' (protip they matter now) then you need to re introduce the AOE DD so that sheer numbers aren't all that matters, again.
That time in EVE was as gay as it gets, and theres absolutely no reason to go back to 'xxxx number of ships means you wing'
So if a small number of high-hp things are overpowered compared to a large number of low-hp things, your solution is to exchange single target damage for more AoE?
what
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Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 18:17:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Ilvari
Originally by: Grath Telkin If you nerf supers to make sub caps 'matter again' (protip they matter now) then you need to re introduce the AOE DD so that sheer numbers aren't all that matters, again.
That time in EVE was as gay as it gets, and theres absolutely no reason to go back to 'xxxx number of ships means you wing'
So if a small number of high-hp things are overpowered compared to a large number of low-hp things, your solution is to exchange single target damage for more AoE?
what
Your opinion doesn't count, you want your 7000 man alliance to be able to just stuff a system to the brink of collapse and call it a day, you aren't actually worried about game balance, and telling yourself otherwise is just silly and self deception.
I'm sorry we had that, and it sucked balls, CCP changed it a bit and now a smaller group can compete with a 7000 man behemoth (as long as grogoth isn't fcing) and it ****es you guys off.
You had the money You had the space You had the chance.
You bought maelstroms instead of Nyx's, and now you're angry about it.
A bloo bloo bloo
|
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Suitonia
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 18:24:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Centra Spike Hey Genos, I'm still waiting for you to give us back Laedy.
Laedy is being held as collotoral for the return of Gobbins, Fmercury and Nrom Gustav.
Will use Chribba. ---
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Klausan
Minmatar GK inc. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 18:25:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Ilvari
Originally by: Grath Telkin If you nerf supers to make sub caps 'matter again' (protip they matter now) then you need to re introduce the AOE DD so that sheer numbers aren't all that matters, again.
That time in EVE was as gay as it gets, and theres absolutely no reason to go back to 'xxxx number of ships means you wing'
So if a small number of high-hp things are overpowered compared to a large number of low-hp things, your solution is to exchange single target damage for more AoE?
what
Your opinion doesn't count, you want your 7000 man alliance to be able to just stuff a system to the brink of collapse and call it a day, you aren't actually worried about game balance, and telling yourself otherwise is just silly and self deception.
I'm sorry we had that, and it sucked balls, CCP changed it a bit and now a smaller group can compete with a 7000 man behemoth (as long as grogoth isn't fcing) and it ****es you guys off.
You had the money You had the space You had the chance.
You bought maelstroms instead of Nyx's, and now you're angry about it.
A bloo bloo bloo
Taken 2 the ownzone.
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Butcher Bien
Amarr Black Aces Mining Div AAA Citizens
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 18:27:00 -
[43]
Why not make Titan DD 30 or 45 minutes between fires. 10 minutes is to frequent. Imagine 20 titans on field against a 200 man BS fleet. Add the dps from the titan turrets to DDing 20 BS every 10 minutes and well....it would be a raping.
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Tappits
Caldari North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 18:27:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Suitonia
Originally by: Centra Spike Hey Genos, I'm still waiting for you to give us back Laedy.
Laedy is being held as collotoral for the return of Gobbins, Fmercury and Nrom Gustav.
Will use Chribba.
You will never get our gobbins, you cannot win everything.
How about we just give you a grogoth and call it quits. ---------------------------------------------- I fail At forums ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ |
Centra Spike
Caldari Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 18:31:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Suitonia
Originally by: Centra Spike Hey Genos, I'm still waiting for you to give us back Laedy.
Laedy is being held as collotoral for the return of Gobbins, Fmercury and Nrom Gustav.
Will use Chribba.
I will trade you Fmercury for a Vangel. Please re-size your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Cynthia Ysolde
Caldari Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 18:37:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Centra Spike
Originally by: Suitonia
Originally by: Centra Spike Hey Genos, I'm still waiting for you to give us back Laedy.
Laedy is being held as collotoral for the return of Gobbins, Fmercury and Nrom Gustav.
Will use Chribba.
I will trade you Fmercury for a Vangel.
**** that we'll trade you a centra spike for you also taking grogoth Brasts |
Centra Spike
Caldari Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 18:42:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
**** that we'll trade you a centra spike for you also taking grogoth
Why don't you join NEWS about it. Please re-size your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Cpt Tunguska
Minmatar In for the Kill Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 18:46:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
That time in EVE was as gay as it gets, and theres absolutely no reason to go back to 'xxxx number of ships means you wing'
lolwut? Why is pl always so special? We ARE still at a point where "XXX number of ships means you win".
f.e. 234 Titans still means, you win. And thats exactly the problem. I see we agree.
If you really think the side with the biggest subcap numbers always wins, you dont have a clue about eve. There are always alot of options to win subcap fights or even capfights. In contrast there arent any options if you face 40 DDs per 10 minutes, backed up with 100 supercarriers.
Everyone knows that, except pl obviously. Dont blame other for your insufficient subcapital performance & expierience.
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Ilvari
Gallente GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.24 18:47:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
You had the money You had the space You had the chance.
That's not an argument for game balance, but an obituary for a sandbox MMO.
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Cynthia Ysolde
Caldari Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 18:52:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Cynthia Ysolde on 24/08/2011 18:56:27
Originally by: Cpt Tunguska
Originally by: Grath Telkin
That time in EVE was as gay as it gets, and theres absolutely no reason to go back to 'xxxx number of ships means you wing'
lolwut? Why is pl always so special? We ARE still at a point where "XXX number of ships means you win".
f.e. 234 Titans still means, you win. And thats exactly the problem. I see we agree.
If you really think the side with the biggest subcap numbers always wins, you dont have a clue about eve. There are always alot of options to win subcap fights or even capfights. In contrast there arent any options if you face 40 DDs per 10 minutes, backed up with 100 supercarriers.
Everyone knows that, except pl obviously. Dont blame other for your insufficient subcapital performance & expierience.
If you're willing to fight PL in subcaps with you outnumbered we'll beat you every single time. Doesn't matter what shiptypes you wanna bring, we'll win, because we're better than you. Subcaps are the same as supers.
-If there are no options vs. 40 titans and 100+ supercarriers, why is the NC dead?
shut the f*ck up you no-name bad
Originally by: Ilvari
Originally by: Grath Telkin
You had the money You had the space You had the chance.
That's not an argument for game balance, but an obituary for a sandbox MMO.
eve is and has always been imbalanced. There has been no time in the past 6 years when having more supercapitals than the opponent has been a bad thing.
If you're too stupid to realize this, then I don't really know what to say. In your sandbox there are still constants, and just because its a sandbox game doesn't mean that every playstyle is appropriate for every situation. Brasts |
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White Tree
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Posted - 2011.08.24 18:55:00 -
[51]
When the supercap nerf happens I will use your tears to salt my fries you babbies. _______________________________________
Follow me on Twitter! |
Cpt Tunguska
Minmatar In for the Kill Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 18:59:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
-If there are no options vs. 40 titans and 100+ supercarriers, why is the NC dead?
shut the f*ck up you no-name bad
NC never had remotly those crazy numbers. 100 (!) SC and 40 Titans...It looks like youre describing the typical low skill pl+rus supercapblob of guaranteed victory.
And pl: Goof job in VFK/Deklein ....Ohwait
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Cynthia Ysolde
Caldari Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 18:59:00 -
[53]
Originally by: White Tree When the supercap nerf happens I will use your tears to salt my fries you babbies.
until then, i'll use yours to salt the entire ****ing ocean of the planet Brasts |
Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 19:01:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Cpt Tunguska
NC never had remotly those crazy numbers. 100 (!) SC and 40 Titans...It looks like youre describing the typical low skill pl+rus supercapblob of guaranteed victory.
You're an idiot, they easily had twice those numbers.
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Limas Nyx
Gallente Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.08.24 19:05:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Cpt Tunguska
NC never had remotly those crazy numbers. 100 (!) SC and 40 Titans...It looks like youre describing the typical low skill pl+rus supercapblob of guaranteed victory.
You're an idiot, they easily had twice those numbers.
hahaha yes ofc Revisionist history par exellence...you should apply to Col. Ghadaffi, he might want to hire you.....ohwait
This PL.....err Supercapnerf will be delishous.
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Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.24 19:12:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Limas Nyx
hahaha yes ofc Revisionist history par exellence...you should apply to Col. Ghadaffi, he might want to hire you.....ohwait
This PL.....err Supercapnerf will be delishous.
Somebody will root through the forum mirror (or i'll grab imperian and hold him down and tickle him till he tells me) but MM had more supercarries alone listed than his petty 100 number, that doesn't count any of the rest of the NC members.
I mean, they were your forums, you could always go get the list yourself right?
Some how i doubt you'll do that though.
I guess its a stretch to ask you to do anything based in reality though, especially since you're the group that said the DRF was selling their renter income then buying isk to get supers with, and every other lame ass story you made up during the northern war.
Its not our fault that we hunted your super pilots until they were too scared to log in and fight us, strange though, you are getting some really sweet numbers down in Delve from your super pilots, and you SO don't mind dropping them on fights to assure your victory.
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Limas Nyx
Gallente Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.08.24 19:19:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Somebody will root through the forum mirror (or i'll grab imperian and hold him down and tickle him till he tells me) but MM had more supercarries alone listed than his petty 100 number, that doesn't count any of the rest of the NC members.
Dont tell stories, evemail me a valid kb link which shows WHOLE NC ever fielded more than 100 supercaps. Youre so used to epic supercap blobs that you lost touch with reality.
And if you really think pl SCARED ppl to a point they dont logged in anymore, you must be living in some kind of parallel universe. I feel so sorry for you, but I dont really know how to help :(
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Cynthia Ysolde
Caldari Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 19:25:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Cynthia Ysolde on 24/08/2011 19:25:23
Originally by: Limas Nyx
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Somebody will root through the forum mirror (or i'll grab imperian and hold him down and tickle him till he tells me) but MM had more supercarries alone listed than his petty 100 number, that doesn't count any of the rest of the NC members.
Dont tell stories, evemail me a valid kb link which shows WHOLE NC ever fielded more than 100 supercaps. Youre so used to epic supercap blobs that you lost touch with reality.
And if you really think pl SCARED ppl to a point they dont logged in anymore, you must be living in some kind of parallel universe. I feel so sorry for you, but I dont really know how to help :(
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=9161850
20 titans, 98 supers.
sup and that was before goons or any of the so-called "dc" were even involved. |
Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 19:25:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Grath Telkin on 24/08/2011 19:25:23
Originally by: Limas Nyx Dont tell stories, evemail me a valid kb link which shows WHOLE NC ever fielded more than 100 supercaps. Youre so used to epic supercap blobs that you lost touch with reality.
I didn't say you had fielded more than 100 super caps, i said you HAD more than 100.
I doubt you could even link a killmail with 100 PL super cap pilots on it, even though we're well over 200 and closing fast on 300
EDIT: LOLOLOLOL you got owned by Cynthia
Originally by: Limas Nyx And if you really think pl SCARED ppl to a point they dont logged in anymore, you must be living in some kind of parallel universe. I feel so sorry for you, but I dont really know how to help :(
I hope you plan to back this up next week when we land in delve
I mean, you didn't fight in Tribute at all, and you're sorely lacking the other 400 dudes you needed to ever face us before, I'd hate for this quote to make you look like a hurf blurfing jackass next week. |
Feligast
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 19:31:00 -
[60]
Grath, do you need a hug or something? You seem really mad. Is running away crying from Deklein affecting you that much?
Here. *hug* Feel better, bggy. |
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Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.24 19:33:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Feligast Grath, do you need a hug or something?
You can hug me, but im not responsible for the unprotected sex that comes afterwards.
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Limas Nyx
Gallente Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 19:39:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=9161850
20 titans, 98 supers.
sup and that was before goons or any of the so-called "dc" were even involved.
Sigh....whats so hard to understand if I say above 100. 98 is not above. And btw. count again .P
This was the engagement were NC fielded the biggest superfleet. I know this link and this battle. You wont find any battle with similar numbers @ our side. And you see its far below the blob you had in WH-, where you had 42 titans and ... well ....who gives a f*** about SCs anymore. And dont check kb, not all of your titans are on posKMS (just 38 if I remember correctly), since there wasnt any fight. Guess why...
PS: We will deploy out of delve. Nulli, Hun, Gents and Crew moved out to Stain npc space. Delve is empty, another scap-victim.... have fun wasting your time there.
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Cynthia Ysolde
Caldari Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 19:41:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Cynthia Ysolde on 24/08/2011 19:42:18
Originally by: Limas Nyx
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=9161850
20 titans, 98 supers.
sup and that was before goons or any of the so-called "dc" were even involved.
Sigh....whats so hard to understand if I say above 100. 98 is not above. And btw. count again .P
This was the engagement were NC fielded the biggest superfleet. I know this link and this battle. You wont find any battle with similar numbers @ our side. And you see its far below the blob you had in WH-, where you had 42 titans and ... well ....who gives a f*** about SCs anymore. And dont check kb, not all of your titans are on posKMS (just 38 if I remember correctly), since there wasnt any fight. Guess why...
PS: We will deploy out of delve. Nulli, Hun, Gents and Crew moved out to Stain npc space. Delve is empty, another scap-victim.... have fun wasting your time there.
correct me if i'm wrong, but 20+98 = more than 100. Know why you won't see another battle with these numbers? Because you lost. And you kept losing. Every single battle from then until disbanding, the NC lost. And every battle you lost, fewer supercaps showed up. It's almost as if there's a way to reduce the number of supercaps your enemy fields. Brasts |
Feligast
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 19:42:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Feligast Grath, do you need a hug or something?
You can hug me, but im not responsible for the unprotected sex that comes afterwards.
I take my anal health in my own hands.
Or put it in yours. I'm so confused.
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Limas Nyx
Gallente Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 19:50:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
correct me if i'm wrong, but 20+98 = more than 100. Know why you won't see another battle with these numbers? Because you lost. And you kept losing. Every single battle from then until disbanding, the NC lost. And every battle you lost, fewer supercaps showed up. It's almost as if there's a way to reduce the number of supercaps your enemy fields.
We lost because you sided with the Russian/exBoB block what roughly doubled the hostile supercap and Titan numbers. Plain and simple. We never had a chance to beat your 40ish Titan megablob. And I guess you know that. Dont try to spin heroic pl stories, blobbers.
bb and gn8 all o//
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zenthral staichon
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 19:59:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Limas Nyx
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
correct me if i'm wrong, but 20+98 = more than 100. Know why you won't see another battle with these numbers? Because you lost. And you kept losing. Every single battle from then until disbanding, the NC lost. And every battle you lost, fewer supercaps showed up. It's almost as if there's a way to reduce the number of supercaps your enemy fields.
We lost because you sided with the Russian/exBoB block what roughly doubled the hostile supercap and Titan numbers. Plain and simple. We never had a chance to beat your 40ish Titan megablob. And I guess you know that. Dont try to spin heroic pl stories, blobbers.
bb and gn8 all o//
mad
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Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.24 20:00:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Limas Nyx
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
correct me if i'm wrong, but 20+98 = more than 100. Know why you won't see another battle with these numbers? Because you lost. And you kept losing. Every single battle from then until disbanding, the NC lost. And every battle you lost, fewer supercaps showed up. It's almost as if there's a way to reduce the number of supercaps your enemy fields.
We lost because you sided with the Russian/exBoB block what roughly doubled the hostile supercap and Titan numbers. Plain and simple. We never had a chance to beat your 40ish Titan megablob. And I guess you know that. Dont try to spin heroic pl stories, blobbers.
bb and gn8 all o//
Guess you guys should have taken the counter offer that was proposed before we moved north.
SUX2BU
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Anuqet
Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.24 20:06:00 -
[68]
NERF SUPERCAP BLOB SO WE CAN WIN WITH T1 BLOB PLZ
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penifSMASH
Caldari ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.24 20:13:00 -
[69]
goonNOOB goonPET and dead NC tears are great.
welcome 2 da pwnzone idiots
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ShogunChaosMK2
Amarr Ixion Defence Systems Test Alliance Please Ignore
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 20:15:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Snot Shot
Honestly I am hoping that CCP buffs the Dreads seeing as I just started training for this class of ship even though, of all ship classes, this one seems to have absolutely no roll at this point in the game.
Once this happens I plan to camp the EC- gate with my Nagàààà..cloaked up as alwaysà. .
Something I can agree on
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Spectre80
Caldari The Knights Templar Cascade Imminent
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 20:19:00 -
[71]
oh look how scared PL is about upcoming supercap nerf. its worth staying in game to see if it really hits as hard as it should. and grath as usual is number one angry panda.
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Cpt Tunguska
Minmatar In for the Kill Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
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Posted - 2011.08.24 20:23:00 -
[72]
Originally by: penifSMASH goonNOOB goonPET and dead NC tears are great.
welcome 2 da pwnzone idiots
Ya pl, welcome in VFK
You always want ppl make to belive that youre awseome, but in fact we just saw in deklein what youre able to do without russian backup and nync's lead: FAILURE
Youre just supercap blobmonkeys for WN, unable to achieve own victories. Great evoLOLution, congratulation.
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White Tree
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 20:41:00 -
[73]
ahhh nooo stop owning me m8 ~ Pandemic Legion once the ownage supercap nerf comes in. _______________________________________
Follow me on Twitter! |
Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 20:44:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Grath Telkin on 24/08/2011 20:44:25
Originally by: Cpt Tunguska
Originally by: penifSMASH goonNOOB goonPET and dead NC tears are great.
welcome 2 da pwnzone idiots
Ya pl, welcome in VFK
You always want ppl make to belive that youre awseome, but in fact we just saw in deklein what youre able to do without russian backup and nync's lead: FAILURE
Youre just supercap blobmonkeys for WN, unable to achieve own victories. Great evoLOLution, congratulation.
IDGI we're in VFK almost every day, whats this supposed to mean?
You must be ingame poor.
I'm sorry, perhaps a donation drive, or you know, fly scimmies, you guys make like, 30 mil per scimmie you lose.
Cheer up man, just because we're about to obtain our 100th titan doesn't mean you should be so sad. I mean, its not our fault we're rolling around in isk, your alliance surely could stand up to wimpy PL and take back some of these moons right?
Right?
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White Tree
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Posted - 2011.08.24 20:48:00 -
[75]
pl gonna get put in the painzone, dumped in the dumpster because: u trash
what
what
get at me m8 _______________________________________
Follow me on Twitter! |
Cpt Tunguska
Minmatar In for the Kill Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 20:55:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
[Cheer up man, just because we're about to obtain our 100th titan doesn't mean you should be so sad. I mean, its not our fault we're rolling around in isk, your alliance surely could stand up to wimpy PL and take back some of these moons right?
Right?
Well today we took a tech of another russian pet. I think it was evoke, but not sure. It was right before we killed off your sorry attempt to siege one of our pos'. Thx for ze dread kills. gf gf gf
We also took some of pl's in the past weeks, but mate....KEEP ON DREAMING
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Snot Shot
Minmatar Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2011.08.24 20:56:00 -
[77]
A lot of crying going on in here by the Alliances who have been rapidly increasing numbers in hopes of the nerf hitting soon. So you want the game to go back to being ruled by the Alliances who can field 5 or 6 full fleets causing soul crushing lag, aka the NC ôI win buttonö?...
Your real problem is that TEST is useless and goonies have no one leading them other than Mitts who wonÆt let you fight anyone other than IRC. You betrayed the only Alliances that consistently showed up to carry your carcasses through wars handing you the trophy at the end such as what happened in Delve I/II, Fountain, and Deklein...
As I have always said, ôthis game is about diplomacyö, and ever since goonies left PL to die in Fountain and NC to die in the north, you have no one to drag you around EVE anymore and we all get to enjoy dancing in the rain of your tearsàà
Honestly, I think if TESTGoonDOT learned how to run a proper fleet you might win a few fights instead of looking foolish most of the timeà .
Just Sayin..........
BAM!! HEAD SHOT!!! |
White Tree
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 20:59:00 -
[78]
This thread is hurt feelings grounds zero and it's hilarious. _______________________________________
Follow me on Twitter! |
Caldari Citizen 2584242
Caldari Broski Federation Tactical Narcotics Team
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 21:04:00 -
[79]
Oh god my butt has been pierced by the needle sharpness of upcoming teh sc nerf that my butt is like a fart sieve tornado ~ PL T Minus 4 months
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Feligast
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.24 21:06:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Feligast on 24/08/2011 21:06:27 So many people need hugs.
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St Boltzmann
Minmatar Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
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Posted - 2011.08.24 21:11:00 -
[81]
as a hound pilott i am looking forward to SC nerf and the return to fleets of hundreds of t1 battleships
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White Tree
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Posted - 2011.08.24 21:12:00 -
[82]
Originally by: St Boltzmann as a hound pilott i am looking forward to SC nerf and the return to fleets of hundreds of t1 battleships
hundreds of hyperions _______________________________________
Follow me on Twitter! |
Chomp Wom
Gallente Broski Federation Tactical Narcotics Team
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 21:12:00 -
[83]
helo iam a new player and i want to fly a big ship like the titan but now the CCP is pooing on the titans, why you do this to me CCP, developers of the EVE ONLINE videogame.
i play the wow for a long time and i know that the titan is the leval 85 in the high leval gears. only it is in space. or my other favorite game the COD MODERN WARS vidogame, this game has the golden guns, this is like the titan of the COD.
WHAT MUST I BE DOING NOW?!?! how do i play the eve ENDGAME?????
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St Boltzmann
Minmatar Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
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Posted - 2011.08.24 21:16:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Chomp Wom helo iam a new player and i want to fly a big ship like the titan but now the CCP is pooing on the titans, why you do this to me CCP, developers of the EVE ONLINE videogame.
i play the wow for a long time and i know that the titan is the leval 85 in the high leval gears. only it is in space. or my other favorite game the COD MODERN WARS vidogame, this game has the golden guns, this is like the titan of the COD.
WHAT MUST I BE DOING NOW?!?! how do i play the eve ENDGAME?????
wow is for simplemidend bydlo like yourself, as is your eve online endgame
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Viribus
Gallente Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
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Posted - 2011.08.24 21:16:00 -
[85]
y the only people in this thred defedning stupidcaps r the dudes hu hav a bunch of them
scrubs afraid of figthing in REAL SHIPS cant even 1v1 like REAL pvpers
cant wait 4 nerf pathetic legion shud change name to 'coloncrucified hurt feelings alliance' ahed of time
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White Tree
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Posted - 2011.08.24 21:18:00 -
[86]
broski financed jenk for scap hulls program financed by broski (financed by test) _______________________________________
Follow me on Twitter! |
Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.24 21:18:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Viribus
cant wait 4 nerf pathetic legion shud change name to 'coloncrucified hurt feelings alliance' ahed of time
Talks a heap of ****, yet never is seen in ROIR. Must be mad.
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Viribus
Gallente Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
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Posted - 2011.08.24 21:20:00 -
[88]
hu this virgin talking **** ill 1v1 anytime on sisi
play it loud
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White Tree
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Posted - 2011.08.24 21:20:00 -
[89]
1v1 on the sun m8 get ready 2 die _______________________________________
Follow me on Twitter! |
Royaldo
Gallente Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
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Posted - 2011.08.24 21:22:00 -
[90]
just wanted to chip in that supers are in fact t1 also isnt op an alt of someone in morsus mihi?
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St Boltzmann
Minmatar Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
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Posted - 2011.08.24 21:24:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Royaldo just wanted to chip in that supers are in fact t1 also isnt op an alt of someone in morsus mihi?
just want 2 chip in ur alliance is dead lmao
play it loud
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EI Digin
Caldari Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.08.24 21:25:00 -
[92]
Edited by: EI Digin on 24/08/2011 21:25:01 didn't read any part of this thread
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White Tree
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Posted - 2011.08.24 21:28:00 -
[93]
Originally by: St Boltzmann
Originally by: Royaldo just wanted to chip in that supers are in fact t1 also isnt op an alt of someone in morsus mihi?
just want 2 chip in ur alliance is dead lmao
play it loud
_______________________________________
Follow me on Twitter! |
Caldari Citizen 2584242
Caldari Broski Federation Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.08.24 21:30:00 -
[94]
I began by mostly jelqing 50-60% erect and doing some stretches. I guess I started out with about 10 min jelq and maybe 5 min stretch (I found stretches tedious, so I often omitted them). 3 weeks later I noted that my **** seemed heavier and meatier in my hands so I whipped out the ruler and found that in that time I had gianed over 1/2 inch in length. This was much to much to be accounted for by error and variable technique so it only took 3 weeks for me to become a believer. I took erect measurments as well, but in the early going I mainly followed bpfsl. I did this because it didn't take as much time and fuss and produced the most reliable results.Over the next few months I would gradually increase my # of jelqs per day from 200-300 to 900 per day. (10 min to about 50 min jelq). I still didn't care much for stretching so I probably only got up to about 10 or 12 min stretch and sometimes still ommited them. I ended up getting somewhat of a baseball bat effect and later decreased jelq and increased the stretches. I ended up with a more or less cylindrical ****.
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Chomp Wom
Gallente Broski Federation Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.08.24 21:31:00 -
[95]
I'm so jenked right now
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Womyn Power
Gallente Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
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Posted - 2011.08.24 21:51:00 -
[96]
lol supercaps fly rifters u ****in nerds who the **** flies super caps what do you have autism and an inferiorituy complex and a tiny ***** lolollolo
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Lups
Caldari Pandora Sphere Narwhals Ate My Duck
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Posted - 2011.08.24 22:58:00 -
[97]
ok, skipped straight from the bottom of page 1 to sumwhere deep into page 4.
remember the days of having a single rr on a bs and balling up on sumone for reps? most of u wont, them that flame will claim to of won eve, the rest will be either goon or test kindergarten..
but seriously, what about if dreads could rr eachother, whilst in seige but not receive reps from anything else nor rep anything else other than a dread. maybe the rep could be balanced when they are in seige. there are a few ways and means here, maybe limit any form of rep to people who are only in your squad and perhaps put a timer on it so squad jumping is delayed.
well i dunno but lets b honest here, dreads are useless, the astarte is useless, railguns are useless.
CCP there has to be some form of equilibrium here due to us older players being skilled enough to adapt very easily. it should be all about decent FC's making decent calls, always trying to expect the unexpected and so on and so forth.
please do something ccp before the uber geeks u put on eve tv during the alliance tourneys start impregnating our children
greets
L-+PY CEO
Beware The Badgers Of Doom!! |
Headerman
Minmatar Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.08.24 23:58:00 -
[98]
Also,
If SCs get nerfed, then people will either:
1) Get more SCs cause they are cheaper (and then you'll see 50 SCs on gates....) 2) Get into titans if they are not cheaper
So instead of seeing 200 SCs, you'll see 200 titans...
I am happy in either case, or if there is a new counter to SCs, or nothing happens at all
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Rhaegor Stormborn
Minmatar BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.08.25 00:07:00 -
[99]
I agree they need to be nerfed, and the sov system revamped, but if they do they need to do something to reimburse the players who have spent so long skilling for these ships and spent countless billions on them. It would be terrible for those of us who do have them now to suffer heavy handed nerfs as we were forced down this path by CCP's game design.
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Sephiroth CloneIIV
Gallente Vitriol Ventures BLACK-MARK
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Posted - 2011.08.25 00:42:00 -
[100]
Once they are nerfed is PL going to make less racist jokes?
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Shamis Orzoz
Minmatar Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.25 00:47:00 -
[101]
There are a ton of things wrong with 0.0, and PvP in general. Supercaps are not one of them.
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Centra Spike
Caldari Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.25 00:54:00 -
[102]
P.S.
Zulu Squad 4 lyfe. Please re-size your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
McKinlay
Caldari North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.25 02:05:00 -
[103]
There be some straight up mad poor people in dis thread.
Listen. Peee Ellll has been roaming the map pubstomping major alliances that had vastly superior numbers of supercaps. IT, Atlas, -A-, NC, Goons, all fell, not due to superior numbers, but because of superior tactics and execution.
Y'all just need to learn to innovate and adapt, rather than crying on a forum.
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Vasentic
Gallente The Remnant Legion.
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Posted - 2011.08.25 02:15:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Vasentic on 25/08/2011 02:16:26
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Cpt Tunguska Currently most of conquerable space in eve-online is owned by one single supercap coalition. They are forming huge Titan spams and kill off everything in their way, without the slightest chance to counter this playstyle. Right now the last independant alliance is under fire. They will fall soon, they dont have a chance to beat the Titan blobs and doomsday spams. Subcapital ships and capitals cant do anything beside dieing in horrible lag, caused by hundrets of supercarriers and their 20 fighters each.
I just want to ask the question:
WHEN?
How hard is it to nerf 2 shipclasses to make room for a more diverse playstyle? What takes that much time? Just remove them from frontlines by reducing their stats by 95% and make subcaps/capital ships the major players again, like it was before Dominion Thats the only way to save the server from beeing 100% uniform.
Supercaps were buffed with dominion, and it made sense at this time. They were more or less evenly distibuted amongst different alliances. But then something happened ccp could not reckon with: Most supercap heavy alliances like IT (rdn), PL, NCdot, Evoke, white noise, red and many others banded together and formed one huge supercap-alliance, which is currently burning down the server, just by jumping in titans/scs. And once it formed up, individual supercap pilots kept running to them, just to make it worse.
This heavily uneven distrubution of supercaps cant be ever reversed. Like 80% of all acive pvping supercaps play in the same team. Theres no counter and no hope with current game mechanics. Remove DDs, remove Titans!
Dot it now
If you nerf supers to make sub caps 'matter again' (protip they matter now) then you need to re introduce the AOE DD so that sheer numbers aren't all that matters, again.
That time in EVE was as gay as it gets, and theres absolutely no reason to go back to 'xxxx number of ships means you wing'
Yea totally gay, more numbers never win. EVER.
I mean its not like the Soviet Union could defeat Germany (which was more technologically advanced, better trained and had more fire power) by having more soldiers.
owait.........
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Wu Phat
Caldari Super Batungwaa Ninja Warriors 0ccupational Hazzard
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Posted - 2011.08.25 03:01:00 -
[105]
2 things I look very forward to in the winter expansion.
Static local: The number of bots killed and/or offlined for the first week to month will create a river of tears. Truth be told botters eve needs you but eve also needs to control you. So you want this to happen. It's balancing and justifies what you do. CCP turns a blind eye and people that want to kill you have a chance to kill you with higher risk to themselves of being killed becasue you really will not know what will be on the other side of a gate.
Dread Buff Sc/Titan Nerf : Means I can end up droping my triage carfor more often. Regular capital production will boom back and super production will slow down. I think that is what CCP wants and what the economy needs is more ships including supers destroyed.
Note Thulium is an R64 Moon goo poo but is the least valuable out off all moon goo poo. Fix that.
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Jones Bones
Minmatar Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.08.25 03:43:00 -
[106]
I heard this is the thread to post in if you're mad.
I just ate a burrito and the beans were overcooked. I will join in your chorus of MADNESS!
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Mr Peanut420
Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.08.25 05:16:00 -
[107]
Originally by: McKinlay There be some straight up mad poor people in dis thread.
Listen. Peee Ellll has been roaming the map pubstomping major alliances that had vastly superior numbers of supercaps. IT, Atlas, -A-, NC, Goons, all fell, not due to superior numbers, but because of superior tactics and execution.
Y'all just need to learn to innovate and adapt, rather than crying on a forum.
Wow Mckinlay...the hubris...you used to be cool...lolkia. I think most major alliances are following the PL example to the letter...abandon all sov so you only fight on your terms, never fight unless you have a hard counter for the enemy, ***** for botted russian supercap handouts. You adapted earliest because you got stomped out of sov earliest, well done. |
Feligast
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.25 05:28:00 -
[108]
Grath, I KNOW you need a hug now. Soz about your carrier, m8m8m8o7o7o7 |
Ehdward
Caldari Nex Exercitus Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.08.25 05:31:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Jones Bones I heard this is the thread to post in if you're mad.
I just ate a burrito and the beans were overcooked. I will join in your chorus of MADNESS!
I know that feel bro. I just made a TV dinner and it tastes horrible.
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Ante Christ
Gallente V I R I I
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Posted - 2011.08.25 06:32:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Suitonia
Originally by: boliano
Ok so an nc player saying we need to stop being a blob. lol oh the irony..
The NC is dead.
The NC is now just a new group of alliances bearing it up in old NC space. FML |
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Headerman
Minmatar Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.08.25 06:58:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Ante Christ
Originally by: Suitonia
Originally by: boliano
Ok so an nc player saying we need to stop being a blob. lol oh the irony..
The NC is dead.
The NC is now just a new group of alliances bearing it up in old NC space.
The NC is dead.
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Cpt Tunguska
Minmatar In for the Kill Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
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Posted - 2011.08.25 10:11:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Cpt Tunguska on 25/08/2011 10:11:40
Originally by: Headerman
Originally by: Ante Christ
Originally by: Suitonia
The NC is dead.
The NC is now just a new group of alliances bearing it up in old NC space.
The NC is dead.
There is always a new NC. Current NC consists of raiden, ncdot, evoke, pl, white noise and all the other russians + their pets. Must be even bigger than the old one, ofc with alot more supers. They even start to loose ****fit ratting Nyx' to gankers, like it is shown @ pl lossboard.
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mama guru
Gallente Thundercats
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Posted - 2011.08.25 13:24:00 -
[113]
Leave Supercaps alone!!!
No really, all you need to do is to remove the ewar immunity. That way they wont be nearly as overpowered, make them dependant on escorts as real capital ships are. You don't need to cut their HP by 70% to do this. I really hope CCP gets creative with the inevitable nerf. Anyone who can't see that Supercaps are broken now should probably unsub and rethink their life for a few weeks. They are like battleships were before tracking got added, its rediculous. _________ EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak. |
Centra Spike
Caldari Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.25 14:30:00 -
[114]
Man we lost a Nyx, I would say it's ALREADY replaced by the 25 billion ISK we get PER DAY from tech moons, but since they are getting nerfed we're buying him a dozen Thanatoses, not that he can tell the difference. Please re-size your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Oscasre
Amarr Anger Management
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Posted - 2011.08.25 14:43:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Oscasre on 25/08/2011 14:45:18
Sort the problem out once and for all ...
Anyone who has a Super capital (like myself) stick 20 Billion in the wallet and remove the ship from the game.
Anyone who has a Titan stick 80 Billion in the wallet and remove the ship from the game.
Increase the build requirements for both by x 10 to x 20
100 Super Capitals go to 10 or 5
50 Titans go to 5 or 2
People will then see a Super and go WoW and OMFG if a Titan appears on the battlefield.
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Marivauder
Amarr Reloaded. Imperial 0rder
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Posted - 2011.08.25 15:12:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Oscasre
Quote: Wrong. As long as they are as OP as they are, alliances, corps, and individuals will still buy them. This also does not affect the current number of supers or their efficacy, only the amount that may be built in the future, so it does not serve to solve any kind of problems.
Complete Rubbish .... they have been built unchecked for years and in your own admission increasing the build cost by 10 x would effect the future .....
The ships are fine the problem is the numbers like most things in this game .......
Remove Titans and Supers and the alliances will be sitting at the gates in 1000 Caps, remove them and it will be a 1000 BS and ditto .... All capitals need the build time and minerals increasing by x 10 and then the numbers will drop
you are stupid stupid stupid stupid
first off, making there build time and mineral price more will not drop the titans, all it will do will slow down,
and also more to your stupid, making the build time long, how the hell is that even going to effect the current amount of super caps in game, we don't need something to fix supers for future, we need something to fix supers now!,
To what someone said earlier, limiting the amount of supers isn't a bad idea, but a bad idea at the same time, 2 reasons why i find this bad, remvoing the sandbox part of the game and limiting stuff, also... say you make it so each alliance can only bring out 5 titans and 15 supercarriers, you still gotta take note.. thats 20 supers on a field from one alliance, then you put into eve prospective, (wn, ra, xxdeathxx, ncdot, evoke, raiden) theres 30 titans and 90 supercarriers, the side with the bigger coalition of super caps is STILL going to win.
My idea, just take down abit of the EHP, make it so titans can't recieve any ewar (tracking links) and super carriers... well have a penalty for using one, like "25-75% tracking speed for fighters"
My opinion personally ----------
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Oscasre
Amarr Anger Management
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Posted - 2011.08.25 15:14:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Oscasre on 25/08/2011 15:16:18
Quote: you are stupid stupid stupid stupid
first off, making there build time and mineral price more will not drop the titans, all it will do will slow down,
and also more to your stupid, making the build time long, how the hell is that even going to effect the current amount of super caps in game, we don't need something to fix supers for future, we need something to fix supers now!,
To what someone said earlier, limiting the amount of supers isn't a bad idea, but a bad idea at the same time, 2 reasons why i find this bad, remvoing the sandbox part of the game and limiting stuff, also... say you make it so each alliance can only bring out 5 titans and 15 supercarriers, you still gotta take note.. thats 20 supers on a field from one alliance, then you put into eve prospective, (wn, ra, xxdeathxx, ncdot, evoke, raiden) theres 30 titans and 90 supercarriers, the side with the bigger coalition of super caps is STILL going to win.
My idea, just take down abit of the EHP, make it so titans can't recieve any ewar (tracking links) and super carriers... well have a penalty for using one, like "25-75% tracking speed for fighters"
My opinion personally
read the post above yours dips hit
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McKinlay
Caldari North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.25 15:53:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Centra Spike Man we lost a Nyx, I would say it's ALREADY replaced by the 25 billion ISK we get PER DAY from tech moons, but since they are getting nerfed we're buying him a dozen Thanatoses, not that he can tell the difference.
I hear on the grapevine THULIUM is the next TECHNETIUM
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Spurty
Caldari V0LTA VOLTA Corp
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Posted - 2011.08.25 16:02:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Spurty on 25/08/2011 16:04:26 **** nerfing them, make more ships that can kill em.
From the real World, take Japanese Zero Fighters as an example.
Pilot rams the titan and explodes killing pilot and ship and doing massive damage to target.
Signature Resolution 1000 m
Deals 500,000 (pick your flavour) type damage to the target.
Hikari mode only available on Super or titan class targets (so no 2 volleying regular caps lolz)
No splash damage, no point using them on anything except capital ships as well.
That's its primary use.
Secondary use, can fire 3 cruise missiles.
Hull = destroyer
GO GO GO CCP.
Make it so!
Meet CCP Rick Roller |
Wu Phat
Caldari Super Batungwaa Ninja Warriors 0ccupational Hazzard
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Posted - 2011.08.25 16:07:00 -
[120]
SC fix: 1)Decrease the volley output of Fighter Bombers. 2)Decrease the EHP from 4 - 5 to 2 - 2.5 Mill 3)Take away immunity to E-War.
Dread Fix: 1) EhP increase to 2 - 2.5 Mill 2) Add 25% Resistance to shield & armor to siege/triage mode check list. 3) Increase the volley output on all capital turrents while in siege mode.
Titan Fix: 1) Personal Jump range decreased to 5.7 from 7.5 light years. 2) Jump Portal range gets separated from Jump range 3) Jump Portal range increased to 10 light years 4) Increase Bridge Range from 2.5km's to 7.5 km's (Basicly It can send ships further then it can jump it self.)
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Carai an'Caldazar
Amarr Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.08.25 16:30:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Carai an''Caldazar on 25/08/2011 16:51:16 I've always thought it would be nice to fix Supercarriers by removing their EWAR immunity, remove their Logistics bonuses, modify Fighter Bombers so they are useless against Battleships and below (enabling decision of Subcap (Fighter) or Capital (Fighter Bomber) fitting), reduce their EHP to about half of what it is now, and let them dock (maybe even cooler but harder to code, only dock in sovereignty controlled stations!).
Simple fixes to Carriers and Dreadnoughts might be Dreadnoughts receiving a x10 multiplier to damage on Structures (making people actually WANT to use these over supers to reinforce POS/TCU/Station/IHUB and reduce some of the tediousness that exists today, as well as let smaller entities with a few dreadnoughts wreak havoc in 1-2 siege cycles and evacuate before the blob arrives) and Carriers get the ability to use Fighter Bombers (evening the playing field, and if the above occurs and Supercarriers lose their logistical capability, Carriers become the end-all be-all in Logistics).
Regardless of what you do to fix the Supercapitals of EVE Online, they will effectively still remain a force to be reckoned with in large enough numbers. They are the pinnacle of achievement for a pilot to fly, and often times one of the few losses that actually are noticeable to an alliance (with Sovereignty and moons being the other noticeable losses). With the way EVE Online is today, being that many can throw Carriers into combat and not feel much/any pain at their losses, there does need to be something a step higher.
I'd like to see CCP do an elegant solution to the issue of Supercapitals. Just a few thoughts off the top of my head might include * Reduce Jump Range of Supercapitals to something significant, such as 2.0au with JDC V (finally moving large ships/fleets would actually be challenging, slow, require planning, and achieve the goal of larger ships are not as mobile as smaller ones, and provide more opportunities for combat during transit as Supercapital POS chains for movement would become far too burdensome to operate) * Remove EWAR immunity and replace with very high sensor strength (>200) and a natural warp core strength (+10) * Remove the ability for Supercapitals to be remote repped (Armor/Shield/ENERGY)
I'm not saying that the above ideas should be implemented, but there is a whole realm of possibilities CCP could go with the balancing that could change the status quo.
CCP is at a very good place right now where the sky is the limit to their design direction. I hope whatever solution they choose to follow is not rushed, and fully thought through before implementation. Sure there is a massive force steamrolling half the galaxy right now, but if proper balance to the oft-stated rock-paper-scissors mentality of EVE ship warfare is nearly reached, this Winter could prove to be an amazingly fun time to be playing EVE. I think the vast majority of players would love to see combat evolve to a playstyle where Subcapital and Capital fleets must be reliant upon each other for Nullsec/Sovereignty warfare, and if CCP can achieve this and make blobbing the largest ships in the game a relatively futile/pointless endeavor, the game will be that much better for it. ~Carai an'Caldazar~ -- Dawn of a new Empire --
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Cpt Bunny
Gallente Syndicated Systems ROMANIAN-LEGION
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Posted - 2011.08.25 16:56:00 -
[122]
Think Rock , Paper, Scisors guys,
Supers just need a counter, thats all.
Solution:
Black Ops redesign: Heavy Bomb Launchers X 3-4 Can inflict heavy dmg to Supers and Titans only. hitting a sub cap would have the effect of being hit by a normal bomb.
maybe at the same time, make defender missiles work again?
Alter the Black Ops build requirements to make use of a moon goo that is not in the north :)
Something along these lines would do the trick.
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Carai an'Caldazar
Amarr Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.08.25 17:00:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Cpt Bunny Think Rock , Paper, Scisors guys,
Supers just need a counter, thats all.
Solution:
Black Ops redesign: Heavy Bomb Launchers X 3-4 Can inflict heavy dmg to Supers and Titans only. hitting a sub cap would have the effect of being hit by a normal bomb.
maybe at the same time, make defender missiles work again?
Alter the Black Ops build requirements to make use of a moon goo that is not in the north :)
Something along these lines would do the trick.
So make an incredibly expensive, hard to train for ship be the counter to massive blobs of Supers... requiring in and of themselves MANY of these ships to have enough DPS to burn down a super, only to have the 40 Titans on grid to DD 40-billion ISK worth of ships every N-minutes?
I don't mean to be a hater, but this idea may not be fully thought through :) ~Carai an'Caldazar~ -- Dawn of a new Empire --
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Cpt Bunny
Gallente Syndicated Systems ROMANIAN-LEGION
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Posted - 2011.08.25 17:05:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar
Originally by: Cpt Bunny Think Rock , Paper, Scisors guys,
Supers just need a counter, thats all.
Solution:
Black Ops redesign: Heavy Bomb Launchers X 3-4 Can inflict heavy dmg to Supers and Titans only. hitting a sub cap would have the effect of being hit by a normal bomb.
maybe at the same time, make defender missiles work again?
Alter the Black Ops build requirements to make use of a moon goo that is not in the north :)
Something along these lines would do the trick.
So make an incredibly expensive, hard to train for ship be the counter to massive blobs of Supers... requiring in and of themselves MANY of these ships to have enough DPS to burn down a super, only to have the 40 Titans on grid to DD 40-billion ISK worth of ships every N-minutes?
I don't mean to be a hater, but this idea may not be fully thought through :)
Well i dont think T1 bs's should be the counter to a hard to train for , expensive super? do you ?
it just comes down to how many black ops per super kill? 5-7 could be about right.
treat them just as heavy bombers. cyno > drop bomb > warp and cloak. supers and titans should not get to lock them.
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Carai an'Caldazar
Amarr Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.08.25 17:08:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Cpt Bunny
Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar
Originally by: Cpt Bunny Think Rock , Paper, Scisors guys,
Supers just need a counter, thats all.
Solution:
Black Ops redesign: Heavy Bomb Launchers X 3-4 Can inflict heavy dmg to Supers and Titans only. hitting a sub cap would have the effect of being hit by a normal bomb.
maybe at the same time, make defender missiles work again?
Alter the Black Ops build requirements to make use of a moon goo that is not in the north :)
Something along these lines would do the trick.
So make an incredibly expensive, hard to train for ship be the counter to massive blobs of Supers... requiring in and of themselves MANY of these ships to have enough DPS to burn down a super, only to have the 40 Titans on grid to DD 40-billion ISK worth of ships every N-minutes?
I don't mean to be a hater, but this idea may not be fully thought through :)
Well i dont think T1 bs's should be the counter to a hard to train for , expensive super? do you ?
it just comes down to how many black ops per super kill? 5-7 could be about right.
treat them just as heavy bombers. cyno > drop bomb > warp and cloak. supers and titans should not get to lock them.
So Super-capital bombing runs? 2 Trillion ISK down the drain of the most-expensive hard-to-build ships in the game requiring months/years of construction because 40 Black Ops bombers bombed a cyno that went up when a hostile Supercap fleet jumped through the cyno, with the only defense for the Supers to effectively bubble their own cyno when the Supers land on grid so no bombers can warp in to hit them?
Hmm... ~Carai an'Caldazar~ -- Dawn of a new Empire --
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Cpt Bunny
Gallente Syndicated Systems ROMANIAN-LEGION
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Posted - 2011.08.25 17:13:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar
Originally by: Cpt Bunny
Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar
Originally by: Cpt Bunny Think Rock , Paper, Scisors guys,
Supers just need a counter, thats all.
Solution:
Black Ops redesign: Heavy Bomb Launchers X 3-4 Can inflict heavy dmg to Supers and Titans only. hitting a sub cap would have the effect of being hit by a normal bomb.
maybe at the same time, make defender missiles work again?
Alter the Black Ops build requirements to make use of a moon goo that is not in the north :)
Something along these lines would do the trick.
So make an incredibly expensive, hard to train for ship be the counter to massive blobs of Supers... requiring in and of themselves MANY of these ships to have enough DPS to burn down a super, only to have the 40 Titans on grid to DD 40-billion ISK worth of ships every N-minutes?
I don't mean to be a hater, but this idea may not be fully thought through :)
Well i dont think T1 bs's should be the counter to a hard to train for , expensive super? do you ?
it just comes down to how many black ops per super kill? 5-7 could be about right.
treat them just as heavy bombers. cyno > drop bomb > warp and cloak. supers and titans should not get to lock them.
So Super-capital bombing runs? 2 Trillion ISK down the drain of the most-expensive hard-to-build ships in the game requiring months/years of construction because 40 Black Ops bombers bombed a cyno that went up when a hostile Supercap fleet jumped through the cyno, with the only defense for the Supers to effectively bubble their own cyno when the Supers land on grid so no bombers can warp in to hit them?
Hmm...
No. it will force the super cap fleets to run decent support fleets too as it should be.
I was in HED - GP when the Blob arrived. i counted 40+ titans and 200+ supers. this is wrong. Every fleet composition must have an effective counter. or there is no hope.
forcing the superblob to run sub cap defence fleets is a way to enable a counter to the superblob. no sub cap defence fleet = the black bombers get to do their thing.
bottom line is, every fleet composition must have a counter.
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Carai an'Caldazar
Amarr Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.08.25 17:16:00 -
[127]
Edited by: Carai an''Caldazar on 25/08/2011 17:16:29 See my thoughts above (top of page 5).
If even some of my proposed changes went through, with roughly a proper fit force of equal number to the attacking invaders, a much better fight could have occurred. The fate of that system would have relied far less on the number of Supers on grid, and far more on the tactics employed. The attack itself would have also required a logistical miracle to occur, being that many of the attacking forces deployed from the far side of the galaxy.
I think my ideas are far more flexible with the current game mechanics, and would make those pilots who fly these ships as well as those hunt them very happy.
Thoughts? ~Carai an'Caldazar~ -- Dawn of a new Empire --
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Zagdul
Gallente Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.08.25 17:25:00 -
[128]
Last night, I shot an Avatar with 350 of my friends for 15 minutes and it didn't die.
I was there.
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Cpt Bunny
Gallente Syndicated Systems ROMANIAN-LEGION
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Posted - 2011.08.25 17:26:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar Edited by: Carai an''Caldazar on 25/08/2011 17:21:56 See my thoughts above (top of page 5).
If even some of my proposed changes went through, with roughly a proper fit force of equal number to the attacking invaders, a much better fight could have occurred. The fate of that system would have relied far less on the number of Supers on grid, and far more on the tactics employed. The attack itself would have also required a logistical miracle to occur, being that many of the attacking forces deployed from the far side of the galaxy.
I think my ideas are far more flexible with the current game mechanics, achieve a much better balance moving forward, and would make those pilots who fly these ships as well as those who hunt them very happy.
I think the type of solution I proposed would provide a much better environment for EVE warfare than a silver bullet to a shiptype that is causing problems. The unintended consequences of introducing a Titan-killer, be it a T2 Dreadnought or a Super-Block-Ops, could very easily screw up far more than it fixes.
Thoughts?
you proposal makes sense,
but
titans will become the new super. and we will be in the same position all over again.
the HED-GP fight: the Titans were given "Fire at will" orders and were DD'ing logi's etc. SuperBlob can and has put out 40+ at a time. it will just get worse.
im starting to think the only solution might be some kind of Hard Cap limit on supers per system. 50% blue %50 red
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Centra Spike
Caldari Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.25 17:31:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Zagdul Last night, I shot an Avatar with 350 of my friends for 15 minutes and it didn't die.
I was there.
Maybe you should have brought in the 30 supers you had online. Please re-size your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
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Morris Falter
Caldari The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.08.25 17:33:00 -
[131]
They should let us nano up titans. 30km/s avatars pwning interceptors with doomsdays would only be very marginally more broken than how it is at the moment, so what's the big deal?
Do it CCP, show us some love.
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Cpt Bunny
Gallente Syndicated Systems ROMANIAN-LEGION
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Posted - 2011.08.25 17:34:00 -
[132]
1 thing tho.
maybe things should be just left as they are. SuperBlob have not done anything wrong, they are just using their isk and skill. maybe there should not be a nerf and we should let eve decided the future in thwe way it always has.
no alliance lasts forever. and eventually superblob will run out of reds. i would then guess the usual events would occur. resets and alliance failures. and it will all start over again.
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Feligast
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.25 17:35:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Centra Spike
Originally by: Zagdul Last night, I shot an Avatar with 350 of my friends for 15 minutes and it didn't die.
I was there.
Maybe you should have brought in the 30 supers you had online.
Thank you for acknowledging the only counter to a single titan is.. 30 supers.
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Carai an'Caldazar
Amarr Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.08.25 17:43:00 -
[134]
Edited by: Carai an''Caldazar on 25/08/2011 17:47:56
Originally by: Cpt Bunny
Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar Edited by: Carai an''Caldazar on 25/08/2011 17:21:56 See my thoughts above (top of page 5).
If even some of my proposed changes went through, with roughly a proper fit force of equal number to the attacking invaders, a much better fight could have occurred. The fate of that system would have relied far less on the number of Supers on grid, and far more on the tactics employed. The attack itself would have also required a logistical miracle to occur, being that many of the attacking forces deployed from the far side of the galaxy.
I think my ideas are far more flexible with the current game mechanics, achieve a much better balance moving forward, and would make those pilots who fly these ships as well as those who hunt them very happy.
I think the type of solution I proposed would provide a much better environment for EVE warfare than a silver bullet to a shiptype that is causing problems. The unintended consequences of introducing a Titan-killer, be it a T2 Dreadnought or a Super-Block-Ops, could very easily screw up far more than it fixes.
Thoughts?
you proposal makes sense,
but
titans will become the new super. and we will be in the same position all over again.
the HED-GP fight: the Titans were given "Fire at will" orders and were DD'ing logi's etc. SuperBlob can and has put out 40+ at a time. it will just get worse.
im starting to think the only solution might be some kind of Hard Cap limit on supers per system. 50% blue %50 red
If 40-50 Titans are on grid, should that not be a momentous occasion?
I am offering solutions to enable it to be POSSIBLE to kill them, as today it is not reasonably so in those numbers unless the server hiccups. When 40-50 HICs can be DD'd each round, it is not hard to keep everyone safe. Is it surprising that everyone who has spent years preparing and finally achieving flying one of these ships wants to fly them with the group that guarantees their safety? Some of the other ideas support making these numbers far less realistic - logistical movement challenges - and easier to pin down - fleets of T1 ships could put points to prevent escape, forcing a fight...
The downstream consequences of things such as Dreadnought/Carrier fixes would enable these ships to wage Sovereignty warfare far better than today, and the logistical challenges of supers could enable someone like the ROL incursion into Tribute to be far more effective (no easily returning home with the big toys). So the DRF puts 170 supercapitals in HED-GP? Great, deploy elsewhere, spread out, and divide and conquer against all their now-undefended territory... without wanting to gouge your eyes out unless you have 20-30 Supers of your own as grinding sovereignty warfare with todays tools sucks! All of this assumes that you don't want to throw up a fight at home and take down their Supercaps using a far superior Subcap blob to kill their subcaps and tie them down into a 10-hour firefight where if they run, they sacrifice a few guys left behind (sure, jump out, we have 47 points on Titan A and 32 on Titan B).
Are these not the types of stories we WANT to experience and read about in EVE Online?
Originally by: Cpt Bunny 1 thing tho.
maybe things should be just left as they are. SuperBlob have not done anything wrong, they are just using their isk and skill. maybe there should not be a nerf and we should let eve decided the future in thwe way it always has.
no alliance lasts forever. and eventually superblob will run out of reds. i would then guess the usual events would occur. resets and alliance failures. and it will all start over again.
I do think, along with many others, that a fix is necessary. Simply giving up and hoping life takes its course and they all collapse into a sea of drama might work... but by the time that happens you'll have alienated many of the pilots, such as myself, who play EVE for the purpose of flying in Nullsec. ~Carai an'Caldazar~ -- Dawn of a new Empire --
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Centra Spike
Caldari Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.25 17:45:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Feligast
Originally by: Centra Spike
Originally by: Zagdul Last night, I shot an Avatar with 350 of my friends for 15 minutes and it didn't die.
I was there.
Maybe you should have brought in the 30 supers you had online.
Thank you for acknowledging the only counter to a single titan is.. 30 supers.
Or you could have brought more torp Ravens, Michael Bolton is a hero. Please re-size your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Feligast
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.25 17:48:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Centra Spike
Originally by: Feligast
Originally by: Centra Spike
Originally by: Zagdul Last night, I shot an Avatar with 350 of my friends for 15 minutes and it didn't die.
I was there.
Maybe you should have brought in the 30 supers you had online.
Thank you for acknowledging the only counter to a single titan is.. 30 supers.
Or you could have brought more torp Ravens, Michael Bolton is a hero.
And adorable, too!
Shouldn't 350 be enough? Especialy when he had no active hardeners? Since it obviously was not enough, some thing is wrong, don't you think?
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Cpt Tunguska
Minmatar In for the Kill Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
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Posted - 2011.08.25 17:52:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Cpt Tunguska on 25/08/2011 17:57:19
Originally by: Feligast
Originally by: Centra Spike
Originally by: Zagdul Last night, I shot an Avatar with 350 of my friends for 15 minutes and it didn't die.
I was there.
Maybe you should have brought in the 30 supers you had online.
Thank you for acknowledging the only counter to a single titan is.. 30 supers.
Thats exactly why they get nerfed.
As far as I know the upcoming balancing patch will nerf supercaps, nerfs logistics and moongo. 3 month left, set your timers!
I just hope the Scap nerf will be serious enough to get rid of that pandemic. The logistis nerf would be a bonus. If they are easier to kill it would break up this boring tanking & repping fights were all just orbit gates instead of warping and flying around.
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Metal Dude
Gallente Destructive Influence Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.08.25 18:14:00 -
[138]
Where's the nerf or counter to 1500 man blob?
The truth will set you free
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1Of9
Gallente The Circle SOLAR WING
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Posted - 2011.08.25 18:22:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Headerman Edited by: Headerman on 24/08/2011 11:13:32
Originally by: Cpt Tunguska WHEN?
[Aeon, 166million + EHP] Corpus X-Type Armor EM Hardener Corpus X-Type Armor Thermic Hardener Corpus X-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener Corpus X-Type Armor Explosive Hardener Corpus X-Type Armor Thermic Hardener Corpus X-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener Corpus X-Type Armor Explosive Hardener Corpus X-Type Armor EM Hardener
Federation Navy Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
True Sansha Large EMP Smartbomb True Sansha Heavy Energy Neutralizer True Sansha Heavy Energy Neutralizer Remote ECM Burst I Capital Murky Energy Transmitter I Capital Coaxial Regenerative Projector
Large Trimark Armor Pump II Large Trimark Armor Pump II Large Trimark Armor Pump II
Tyrfing x20 Firbolg x10 Bouncer II x20 Warrior II x20
Hopefully never. i need more than 166 million EHP from my Aeon :/
Seriously, if the OP can't think of a counter to that, then they need to rethink their purpose is in 0.0 space
op is obviously a goon .. no brains cant be found there.
just cry cry cry, and wait for ccp to get them out of the troubles they are in
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SmokeyUK
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.08.25 18:23:00 -
[140]
Edited by: SmokeyUK on 25/08/2011 18:25:45 Anyone remember Empyrean Age Trailer, the weapon used at the end of the trailer would solve the supercap problem ....what ever happened to that?
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SinXiao
Gallente WEPRA CORP White Noise.
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Posted - 2011.08.25 18:41:00 -
[141]
Originally by: SmokeyUK Edited by: SmokeyUK on 25/08/2011 18:25:45 Anyone remember Empyrean Age Trailer, the weapon used at the end of the trailer would solve the supercap problem ....what ever happened to that?
That's clearly Jove technology, which we wont see for a looong time I would say. But surely looks like a "cap problem solution" : ]
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Calchura Daria
Caldari The Knights Templar Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.08.25 18:49:00 -
[142]
How about a scripted, or even separate, siege module for dreads. This would be akin to a mini DD and can only be activated on SCs/Titan's.
Something like 1 or 2 million damage. Enough to allow a fleet of 30-40 dreads wax an SC in one go and make a Titan Pilot have a brown trouser moment.
SCs would still be the structure incapping and brawling king of Capitals, but would be vunerable to an organised group of lower tiered Capital Ships. It also gives back the Dread the role it was made for, Cap fights.
Yeah, Yeah, I Know, Feature and Ideas is that way, I'll get my coat lol.
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Wu Phat
Caldari Super Batungwaa Ninja Warriors 0ccupational Hazzard
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Posted - 2011.08.25 18:51:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Cpt Bunny Think Rock , Paper, Scisors guys,
Supers just need a counter, thats all.
Solution:
Black Ops redesign: Heavy Bomb Launchers X 3-4 Can inflict heavy dmg to Supers and Titans only. hitting a sub cap would have the effect of being hit by a normal bomb.
maybe at the same time, make defender missiles work again?
Alter the Black Ops build requirements to make use of a moon goo that is not in the north :)
Something along these lines would do the trick.
Your in the right area but think " KISS ". Micro Citadel Siege Lunchers and Torpedos For Stealth Bombers. Fighter bombers have them why can't regular bombers have them. They will just do nohting to sub capitals. Kinda perfect for your 5 Mill sp noob to fly and get on capital kills.
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Hiemlynn
Minmatar V I R I I
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Posted - 2011.08.25 19:04:00 -
[144]
I might have missed the point but why can't a group of a hundred highly trained and skilled pilots hold off or defeat two thousand noobs in T1 ships?
Yes SC's and titans are powerful and yes there are alot of them but why should they be nerfed so that they can be taken out by currently inferior forces? It makes no sense. It I means that all other alliances and corps end up in NPC or highsec space so be it.
If you don't like it make isk and buy them or rent space and build them. Just don't sit and whine because you don't have enough of them. |
Centra Spike
Caldari Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.25 19:04:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Feligast And adorable, too!
Shouldn't 350 be enough? Especialy when he had no active hardeners? Since it obviously was not enough, some thing is wrong, don't you think?
You had the perfect chance to kill a bunch of supers, but you were unwilling to commit your full force to do it. You outnumbered us in subcaps AND in supercaps. |
Batalo
Gallente UEF COMMAND ROL.Citizens
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Posted - 2011.08.25 19:39:00 -
[146]
Edited by: Batalo on 25/08/2011 19:49:36
Originally by: Hiemlynn Edited by: Hiemlynn on 25/08/2011 19:18:51 I might have missed the point but why can't a group of a hundred highly trained and skilled pilots hold off or defeat two thousand noobs in T1 ships?
Yes SC's and titans are powerful and yes there are alot of them but why should they be nerfed so that they can be taken out by currently inferior forces? It makes no sense. If it means that all other alliances and corps end up in NPC or highsec space so be it.
If you don't like it make isk and buy them or rent space and build them. Just don't sit and whine because you don't have enough of them.
lol at the raiden, NCdot, WN, or Evoke alt
also ccp will nerf them because they dont want to lose a lot of customers because one group of people is totally over powered. I would not want to play a game like that. Were it is impossible to win. Also "If you don't like it make isk and buy them or rent space and build them. Just don't sit and whine because you don't have enough of them." I laughed so hard at this lololololololol. "buy them" I should not have to pay real money to win. "Rent space" So I have a supercap now what" Ok so my alliance just rented space and made 100 titans but in the time my masters have made 200 more so there was no point.
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Suitonia
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.08.25 19:56:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Hiemlynn Edited by: Hiemlynn on 25/08/2011 19:18:51 I might have missed the point but why can't a group of a hundred highly trained and skilled pilots hold off or defeat two thousand noobs in T1 ships?
Yes SC's and titans are powerful and yes there are alot of them but why should they be nerfed so that they can be taken out by currently inferior forces? It makes no sense. If it means that all other alliances and corps end up in NPC or highsec space so be it.
If you don't like it make isk and buy them or rent space and build them. Just don't sit and whine because you don't have enough of them.
Yeah, you heard him! Rent space from the coalition that controls the entire map due to SC dominance and somehow out produce them on Super Capitals despite them having much more means to produce them, hoard them, and maybe in a 6-7 years when your elite alliance can field the same numbers of them to stand a fighting chance, and have sufficient means to replace losses, you can finally start taking the map back! Oh Boy looking forward to Eve in 2018.
Meanwhile everyone else has left the game due to outright staleness.
The groups that are skilled have always adapted, have always controlled and changed the meta, and have always been able to take on a more numerically superior opponent. Super Capitals are stale and require very little piloting ability from the individual player, its essentially a pure numbers game. The same alliances will continue to win when Super Capitals are adjusted to more reasonable levels, the ones who rely on outright SC dominance and their bluelist of SCs we will see whining on the forums.
See: Pandemic Legion. 100 Tengus vs 500 Atlas/Fail/AAA drakes, 100 Armor HACs(when it was a new concept) vs 500 NC BS. ---
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Demon Azrakel
Gallente Defiant.. Narwhals Ate My Duck
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Posted - 2011.08.25 20:37:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Suitonia
Originally by: Hiemlynn Edited by: Hiemlynn on 25/08/2011 19:18:51 I might have missed the point but why can't a group of a hundred highly trained and skilled pilots hold off or defeat two thousand noobs in T1 ships?
Yes SC's and titans are powerful and yes there are alot of them but why should they be nerfed so that they can be taken out by currently inferior forces? It makes no sense. If it means that all other alliances and corps end up in NPC or highsec space so be it.
If you don't like it make isk and buy them or rent space and build them. Just don't sit and whine because you don't have enough of them.
Yeah, you heard him! Rent space from the coalition that controls the entire map due to SC dominance and somehow out produce them on Super Capitals despite them having much more means to produce them, hoard them, and maybe in a 6-7 years when your elite alliance can field the same numbers of them to stand a fighting chance, and have sufficient means to replace losses, you can finally start taking the map back! Oh Boy looking forward to Eve in 2018.
Meanwhile everyone else has left the game due to outright staleness.
The groups that are skilled have always adapted, have always controlled and changed the meta, and have always been able to take on a more numerically superior opponent. Super Capitals are stale and require very little piloting ability from the individual player, its essentially a pure numbers game. The same alliances will continue to win when Super Capitals are adjusted to more reasonable levels, the ones who rely on outright SC dominance and their bluelist of SCs we will see whining on the forums.
See: Pandemic Legion. 100 Tengus vs 500 Atlas/Fail/AAA drakes, 100 Armor HACs(when it was a new concept) vs 500 NC BS.
Yeah, I am one of those who respects PL in general, but when they say that SCs are not OP and should not be nerfed, they are talking out of their collective asses.
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Lunas Whisper
Minmatar Chillwater Ltd Imperial Ascension
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Posted - 2011.08.25 20:39:00 -
[149]
Seems the only way to take out big coalitions like this, would be to get people in, to make them eat themselves. (looks at goons, aka the Bob example, of the director defecting)
You guys know where the expensive moon goo is, why not get roaming gangs to take out the haulers taking them out of the pos? Logofski. They need moon goo to make more super caps, so take away one of their playthings. Doesn't require you to take out the pos, but the indy guy getting stuck doing all the hauling.
Go after, through guerrilla warfare, their Indy guys, mining to make the stuff to make the super caps. Then I dunno, bait, and kill one supercap at a time.
Or make another big coalition(diplo fun fun, needing to soothe multiple ruffled feathers) and the DRF becomes Bob 3(or whatever number it is at currently). United we stand, divided we fall. |
FatChance
Caldari Defenders of Order BLACK-MARK
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Posted - 2011.08.25 20:57:00 -
[150]
Nerf access to moon goo. Force alliances and corporations to either have sovereignty or good standings with the current sovereignty holders in order to actually use the moons.
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Klausan
Minmatar GK inc. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.25 21:01:00 -
[151]
Reading this thread sure makes me glad that none of you actually have any say to current game mechanics.
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Cpt Tunguska
Minmatar In for the Kill Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
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Posted - 2011.08.25 21:17:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Lunas Whisper
Go after, through guerrilla warfare, their Indy guys, mining to make the stuff to make the super caps. Then I dunno, bait, and kill one supercap at a time.
Or make another big coalition(diplo fun fun, needing to soothe multiple ruffled feathers) and the DRF becomes Bob 3(or whatever number it is at currently).
Guerilla warfare against technetium would never work, for various reasons.
But this anti-DRF coalition thingy is a nice thought. But probably there arent any groups left to oppose them. Around dominion were following coalitions in eve:
Goon block NC AAA Stainblock Atlas block IT block DRF
Quick history of the blob
Atlas was taken out first, as PL and Rus put all their stuff together and camped their main system with 100+ supers until sov flipped. No real fight happened. This was the first time eve saw that many supers on grid. Atlas failcascaded.
The unholy supercapblob proceeded into AAA-hold regions and burned everything down . AAA ceased all ops and retreated into Stain NPC space..waiting. No real fight happened.
As the blob moved on, they installed some pets in AAA's former regions. AAA attacked them and took their regions back.
IT failcascaded for various internal and external reasons, all of their active supercap corps joind DRF (Raiden.) Also NCdot and evoke joined the Blob. Alot smaller supercap groups like Burn Eden joined NCdot and other DRF alliances, same happend with pets and pets of the pets.
This huge blob pushed into the core NC and put 40+ Titans and hundrets of SCs on the field. Core NC saw no possibility to fight this epic blob and gave up. No real epic battle happened. NC completly disintegrated and remnants moved into NPC space.
The huge blob recruited even more and more and more scap pilots and again attacked south. From Delve to catch all AAA related allieances dropped their space and moved into NPC space (again). The blob kills of all sov unopposed and AAA will again lose all regions.
So within a year and few months the number of coalitions was reduced to 2:
DRF supercapblob Goons
DRF controls most of eve, except the goon regions. All other entities are shattered. I dont see anyone stepping up to fight this crazy blob. No one can compete with those supers, either. So the diplomatic approach wont work.
The only one who can solve this mess is CCP, by nerfing those unbalanced toys aka Titans/SCs.
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Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.25 21:27:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Cpt Tunguska
This huge blob pushed into the core NC and put 40+ Titans and hundrets of SCs on the field. Core NC saw no possibility to fight this epic blob and gave up. No real epic battle happened. NC completly disintegrated and remnants moved into NPC space.
The huge blob recruited even more and more and more scap pilots and again attacked south. From Delve to catch all AAA related allieances dropped their space and moved into NPC space (again). The blob kills of all sov unopposed and AAA will again lose all regions.
So within a year and few months the number of coalitions was reduced to 2:
DRF supercapblob Goons
DRF controls most of eve, except the goon regions. All other entities are shattered. I dont see anyone stepping up to fight this crazy blob. No one can compete with those supers, either. So the diplomatic approach wont work.
The only one who can solve this mess is CCP, by nerfing those unbalanced toys aka Titans/SCs.
BoB controls all of eve except for x regions Goons control all of eve except for x regions NC control all of eve except for x regions DRF control all of eve except for x regions
And your revisionist history on why the NC didn't engage seals the deal on how utterly and hopelessly ******ed you make yourself look with every post.
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Cpt Tunguska
Minmatar In for the Kill Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
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Posted - 2011.08.25 21:43:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
And your revisionist history on why the NC didn't engage seals the deal on how utterly and hopelessly ******ed you make yourself look with every post.
I dont really understand what you want to say, but whoever tries to engage 40 Titans, backed up by hundrets of other ships, is dumb. I guess no one can deny that.
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Trusty Jutspezic
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.25 21:57:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Cpt Tunguska
I dont really understand what you want to say, but whoever tries to engage 40 Titans, backed up by hundrets of other ships, is dumb. I guess no one can deny that.
Not to say that supers aren't overpowered but this is a seriously wussy position to take. It isn't "dumb" to fight when the alternative is losing your space. When you play the game of sov you die or you lose, and the NC decided it would rather lose than die. |
Cpt Tunguska
Minmatar In for the Kill Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
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Posted - 2011.08.25 22:06:00 -
[156]
Edited by: Cpt Tunguska on 25/08/2011 22:06:24
Originally by: Trusty Jutspezic
Not to say that supers aren't overpowered but this is a seriously wussy position to take. It isn't "dumb" to fight when the alternative is losing your space. When you play the game of sov you die or you lose, and the NC decided it would rather lose than die.
I disagree. If theres no possibility to win a supercapfight, you shouldnt fight. Just imagine nc would have attacked with their 20ish Titans and other caps. They would have lost alot of their capitals and the space would have been be lost anyway. I mean ofc you can fight for spacehonor and stuff: This means you loose hundrets of ships....but it serves nothing. You feed the enemy kills and he will laugh about you, thats it.
So the decision to abandon everything was the logical one. And if you check the other big players, you see that they act the similar way. Burning supercaps for nothing....srsly no one is doing this.
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Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.25 22:10:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Cpt Tunguska This means you loose hundrets of ships....but it serves nothing
It serves nothing?
Its a game dumbass, its called playing a game.
Pro tip if you lose your ship in EVE your insurance premiums don't go up.
Stop being such a coward.
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Cpt Tunguska
Minmatar In for the Kill Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
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Posted - 2011.08.25 22:12:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Cpt Tunguska This means you loose hundrets of ships....but it serves nothing
It serves nothing?
Its a game dumbass, its called playing a game.
Pro tip if you lose your ship in EVE your insurance premiums don't go up.
Stop being such a coward.
Hi Grath,
nice to hear you can insure your supercap o7 You are awsome.
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Trusty Jutspezic
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.25 22:16:00 -
[159]
Edited by: Trusty Jutspezic on 25/08/2011 22:18:23
Originally by: Cpt Tunguska
So the decision to abandon everything was the logical one. And if you check the other big players, you see that they act the similar way. Burning supercaps for nothing....srsly no one is doing this.
Counterpoint: Herocats and their bratty little brother Welpfleet. You don't have to field supers to kill supers. You just need bubbles, autocannons, moxy, and bubbles.
Edit: and neuts.
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Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.25 22:57:00 -
[160]
Edited by: Grath Telkin on 25/08/2011 22:58:16
Originally by: Trusty Jutspezic Edited by: Trusty Jutspezic on 25/08/2011 22:18:23
Originally by: Cpt Tunguska
So the decision to abandon everything was the logical one. And if you check the other big players, you see that they act the similar way. Burning supercaps for nothing....srsly no one is doing this.
Counterpoint: Herocats and their bratty little brother Welpfleet. You don't have to field supers to kill supers. You just need bubbles, autocannons, moxy, and bubbles.
Edit: and neuts.
Don't let that out, people will feel dumb if they find out the counter to supers was a t1 battle cruiser or a t1 battleship, and you know, balls.
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Pawnee
Amarr hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.08.25 23:01:00 -
[161]
Edited by: Pawnee on 25/08/2011 23:09:41
As EX-NC I feel about the new NC - like some ppl say - like Nero felt, when Roma was burning. Big smile on my face and "I told you so" in my mind. MM need to be no more NATO, so who cares, what CCP will do? I do not. I never had a supercapital either. I will wait for CCP's new patch - everybody knows, they will ahve to change something. We will see, whether thy **** up again or correct some things. Then I make a new decision, whether I continue the game or not.
If I look back, I was only disappointed about that lousy deal, which some Goon leaders made with RA and PL to spare them and sacrifize the NC.
All you renters in Eve 0.0 have fun with your new Russian RMT overlords. Pay twice for the game: 1x to CCP, 1x to little Russian wannabe mobsters - rent or RMT $ . Some ppl will never learn and always be victims.
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0August0
Gallente Gooch Unlimited
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Posted - 2011.08.25 23:09:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Cpt Tunguska This means you loose hundrets of ships....but it serves nothing
It serves nothing?
Its a game dumbass, its called playing a game.
Pro tip if you lose your ship in EVE your insurance premiums don't go up.
Stop being such a coward.
You're seriously talking about cowardice, in a video game? Are you actually that far removed from reality that you think anyone is truly afraid of your blob of internet pixels?
Geez dude, get out of you moms basement and go outside in the sunshine for awhile before this delusion becomes permanent! Regards, August |
Trusty Jutspezic
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.25 23:13:00 -
[163]
A day will come when Morsus Mihi will have to look back and see the irony of complaining about CCP screw ups wrt ship balance when CCP screw ups wrt Technetium positioned them perfectly to take advantage of aforementioned CCP screw ups wrt ship balance. But it is not this day.
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Pawnee
Amarr hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.08.26 00:19:00 -
[164]
Edited by: Pawnee on 26/08/2011 00:27:16
Originally by: Trusty Jutspezic A day will come when Morsus Mihi will have to look back and see the irony of complaining about CCP screw ups wrt ship balance when CCP screw ups wrt Technetium positioned them perfectly to take advantage of aforementioned CCP screw ups wrt ship balance. But it is not this day.
I was never happy about Tech only in North. I always said, it will attract the scum of Eve. If you are rich, you attract lots of false friends and envy.
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Cipreh
Minmatar Clann Fian Narwhals Ate My Duck
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Posted - 2011.08.26 01:07:00 -
[165]
I have an idea on how to limit supercaps and titans, in a way that would help to balance the game, while remaining in-line with the "immersion" of the game. These are massive ships, they require immense amount of supplies, fuel, and crew to operate.
The logical extension of that, is that in order to make use of these, you must control the infrastructure(sov)required to supply them. Limit the amount of titans or super caps that an alliance can field (not own), around the amount of space they control. They can field one supercap per system they control, and one titan for every five systems they control. (all numbers are arbitrary, and subject to change)
This might not be the end all, be all fix, but it would certainly limit the ability of any single alliance to drop 50 titans, and 100 supercaps on a single fight, and wtfdoomsday their way to victory, 10 minutes at a time.
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Capricorn 0ne
Caldari Broski Federation Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.08.26 01:18:00 -
[166]
Edited by: Capricorn 0ne on 26/08/2011 01:18:22
Originally by: Pawnee Edited by: Pawnee on 26/08/2011 00:27:16
Originally by: Trusty Jutspezic A day will come when Morsus Mihi will have to look back and see the irony of complaining about CCP screw ups wrt ship balance when CCP screw ups wrt Technetium positioned them perfectly to take advantage of aforementioned CCP screw ups wrt ship balance. But it is not this day.
I was never happy about Tech only in North. I always said, it will attract the scum of Eve.
Don't tell that to Morsus Mihi, I heard that they held the North for a while.
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Kitty Vintner
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.26 01:54:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Cipreh
This might not be the end all, be all fix, but it would certainly limit the ability of any single alliance to drop 50 titans, and 100 supercaps on a single fight, and wtfdoomsday their way to victory, 10 minutes at a time.
Apart from the problems with implementation this will mostly result in a positive feedback loop of "take space -> you can field more supers -> it's easier to field supers and take more space". You need to nerf supers themselves unless you just want fewer alliances to be able to dominate the rest of the playerbase.
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Headerman
Minmatar Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.08.26 02:03:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Cipreh I have an idea on how to limit supercaps and titans, in a way that would help to balance the game, while remaining in-line with the "immersion" of the game. These are massive ships, they require immense amount of supplies, fuel, and crew to operate.
The logical extension of that, is that in order to make use of these, you must control the infrastructure(sov)required to supply them. Limit the amount of titans or super caps that an alliance can field (not own), around the amount of space they control. They can field one supercap per system they control, and one titan for every five systems they control. (all numbers are arbitrary, and subject to change)
This might not be the end all, be all fix, but it would certainly limit the ability of any single alliance to drop 50 titans, and 100 supercaps on a single fight, and wtfdoomsday their way to victory, 10 minutes at a time.
Adding in special conditions on maintaining 1 class of ships is not EVE. Why wasnt the same done with BSs? or with just Sleipnirs?
Why shouldn't the Mach have a crew to maintain its awesomeness?
Subcaps have many variants, sizes, abilities and strengths. With caps its just a carrier, a dread, then SCs and titans. There is such a massive gap in the middle it gives CCP a golden opportunity to add in ship variants, sizes, abilities and strengths.
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Batalo
Gallente UEF COMMAND ROL.Citizens
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Posted - 2011.08.26 03:46:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Headerman
Originally by: Cipreh I have an idea on how to limit supercaps and titans, in a way that would help to balance the game, while remaining in-line with the "immersion" of the game. These are massive ships, they require immense amount of supplies, fuel, and crew to operate.
The logical extension of that, is that in order to make use of these, you must control the infrastructure(sov)required to supply them. Limit the amount of titans or super caps that an alliance can field (not own), around the amount of space they control. They can field one supercap per system they control, and one titan for every five systems they control. (all numbers are arbitrary, and subject to change)
This might not be the end all, be all fix, but it would certainly limit the ability of any single alliance to drop 50 titans, and 100 supercaps on a single fight, and wtfdoomsday their way to victory, 10 minutes at a time.
Adding in special conditions on maintaining 1 class of ships is not EVE. Why wasnt the same done with BSs? or with just Sleipnirs?
Why shouldn't the Mach have a crew to maintain its awesomeness?
Subcaps have many variants, sizes, abilities and strengths. With caps its just a carrier, a dread, then SCs and titans. There is such a massive gap in the middle it gives CCP a golden opportunity to add in ship variants, sizes, abilities and strengths.
by adding stuff you are just escalating the problem not solving it. It is always better to take away then add more. Because once you add a new ship type in eve you can't take it away. When something is out of balance you need to move that part back into balance not move something else into balance with the out. it is just making the problem worse.
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Josef Huffenpuff
Caldari FAIL Holding Corp Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.08.26 07:18:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Grath Telkin Edited by: Grath Telkin on 25/08/2011 22:58:16
Originally by: Trusty Jutspezic Edited by: Trusty Jutspezic on 25/08/2011 22:18:23
Originally by: Cpt Tunguska
So the decision to abandon everything was the logical one. And if you check the other big players, you see that they act the similar way. Burning supercaps for nothing....srsly no one is doing this.
Counterpoint: Herocats and their bratty little brother Welpfleet. You don't have to field supers to kill supers. You just need bubbles, autocannons, moxy, and bubbles.
Edit: and neuts.
Don't let that out, people will feel dumb if they find out the counter to supers was a t1 battle cruiser or a t1 battleship, and you know, balls.
ITT...
Elite PL pilot claims counter to 200 Supercaps in system blobbage is T1 battle cruisers and "balls"
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Misanth
Amarr RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Limitless Inc.
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Posted - 2011.08.26 08:50:00 -
[171]
Would NC have cried this much if they hadn't sold off all their supers to the guys who later attacked them?
Did NC cry this much when MC used regular caps to do exactly the same thing years ago?
Did NC cry this much when their coalition outblobbed BoB massively a couple of times?
Do they want cheese with their whine?
Sandbox. If you really want to own space (hint: you don't have to own space in this game), you should take necessary measures to be able to do so. Else you don't deserve said space. -
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Leffe
Minmatar Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2011.08.26 09:17:00 -
[172]
CCP needs to do something. These ideas are my ideas and I do not represent my alliance by voicing them.
Here they are:
1: Titans and Supercapitals should be allowed to dock into 0.0 spacestations. Today, players are training extra characters in order to manage there Titans and Supercapitals and trading between these is virtually impossible. Allow that titans and supercapitals can dock into 0.0 spacestations.
2: The best way to "nerf" titans/supers is to limit their mobility. In order to do this effectively, the costs involved in moving them should be multiplied substantially involving the usage of an extra fuel component. The fuel component should be available on the NPC market and needs to be "big" (difficult to transport), expensive. A such, titans should be "bound" to their "home" area and should only be able to operate, taking into account the financial costs, in systems near their production area. For instance, a jump of 1 LY should be equivalent in costs to 100mil ISK. The financial cost to actually deploy a titan/super needs to be a decision well made otherwise, the financial consequences needs to be substantial. For instance, moving 20 titans 10 LY should costs 20bil. Moving them back should cost again 20bil.
3:Limit (nerf) the jump range of titans to 3LY.
4: Limit (nerf) range of titan jump bridges to 0.0 space only. It should be impossible to either activate from or target to lowsec systems using titan jump bridges.
5: Limit (nerf) the immunity to all forms of electronic warfare for titans and supers to 0.0 only. If you want to play god with supers and titans in lowsec, you should be awre of the consequence that your immunity will not work.
Flame off !
Leffe
Leffe
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Tallian Saotome
Gallente Nuclear Arms Exchange Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.08.26 09:44:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Josef Huffenpuff
Originally by: Grath Telkin Edited by: Grath Telkin on 25/08/2011 22:58:16
Originally by: Trusty Jutspezic Edited by: Trusty Jutspezic on 25/08/2011 22:18:23
Originally by: Cpt Tunguska
So the decision to abandon everything was the logical one. And if you check the other big players, you see that they act the similar way. Burning supercaps for nothing....srsly no one is doing this.
Counterpoint: Herocats and their bratty little brother Welpfleet. You don't have to field supers to kill supers. You just need bubbles, autocannons, moxy, and bubbles.
Edit: and neuts.
Don't let that out, people will feel dumb if they find out the counter to supers was a t1 battle cruiser or a t1 battleship, and you know, balls.
ITT...
Elite PL pilot claims counter to 200 Supercaps in system blobbage is T1 battle cruisers and "balls"
Welpfleets can easily take on almost their own numbers in supers, didn't you know that?
I think the problem is that supers and titans are balanced the way CCP envisioned them(you can field one or 2 with the largest fleets) but are something that can be blobbed together, and therefor will be. Since they are being blobbed, they need a good nerfing to bring them into balance as a ship thats getting fielded en masse.
By making an elite, rare ship something everyone in your group flies, you have made the ship no longer elite or rare.
P.S. PL sure seems to have a hard time winning those subcap fights since they started using superblob tactics, so no claiming to be so elite at pvp til you start winning subcap fights again This is my signature. There are many like it but this one is mine. My signature is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my signature is useless. |
cpu939
Gallente Volatile Nature White Noise.
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Posted - 2011.08.26 09:53:00 -
[174]
Originally by: White Tree When the supercap nerf happens I will use your tears to salt my fries you babbies.
hmmm i wonder how much the csm knows about the nerf and thats why your boasting about the nerf and the tears that are coming.
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Rea Roy
Minmatar R.U.S.H Red Alliance
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Posted - 2011.08.26 10:42:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Cpt Tunguska
Originally by: Lunas Whisper
This huge blob pushed into the core NC and put 40+ Titans and hundrets of SCs on the field. Core NC saw no possibility to fight this epic blob and gave up. No real epic battle happened. NC completly disintegrated and remnants moved into NPC space.
WTF man?! no real fight?! U should go back to the belt...
http://kb.deerhunt.ru/index.php?op=related&name=746120 of couse.. this is no real fight http://kb.deerhunt.ru/index.php?op=related&name=746696 and this.. http://kb.deerhunt.ru/index.php?op=related&name=760188 maybee this don't happend? i can link alot more.. but u can say.. this is no real, of couse. real fight was every day, before ZLZ system was in nc hands.. and some of them was real hard.
Ok, ask u self... why razors, mihi.. dont show numbers in supers? This allys sit at north for years.. and have 600bil+ every month.. were is this money, (helloy vuk), where is yours titans and mamas? Why razors dont help another in that war them it start?
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Jaiimez C
Minmatar Everlasting Forge Imperial Ascension
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Posted - 2011.08.26 11:20:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Gotmah swaggaback Heh, in all seriousness. Not saying supercarriers arent overpowered or nuthin but.
Op is stupid. His argument, most of the people flying supercaps decided to fight under the same banner. And one smaller coalition with lesser hardware cannot fight this blob of supercaps?
Well duh yeah, what did you expect? To kill 100 sc's with drakes? Sense sir, you make absolutely none. I too believe super's are kiinda ruining the game and needs rebalancing. My suggestion would be to simply remove one target dd and perhaps give titans more turret/missile damage a bit of a boost to capital and structures. And remove everything but fighters and fighterbombers from the supercarrier dronebay, or atleast lower the limit "normal" drone limit to 5 without bonused damage to them.
This would mean that a supercap blob of lets say an arbitrary number of 100 would pose pretty much no threat to a subcap fleet at all. unless they get smartbombed or decide to sit completely still. But you get the idea. So yeah this would mean the **** would still be useful for capital fights and structure grinds. But atleast it wont single handedly wtfpwn a well put togheter subcap fleet. And to be honest, this is the only problem with supers atm.
Supercaps ARE supposed to be good against other capital ships. And IF one coalition happens to have more supercaps then the other, well then it kinda makes sense they should have a greater chance to win provided both coalitions doesnt suck at using them?
Slugfests isnt the only way to win a war, this is a sandbox game and if you're completely outmatched in hardware, you either need to fight smarter or GTFO.
I think this guy is onto something if you even look at the description on carriers and super carriers it say under the skill bonus "1/3 extra fighter(s) per level" so why not limit the amount of regular drones they can launch, that way supercarriers would become completely ineffective against anything battlecruisers or smaller, because fighters would have a hard time hitting anything. It would stop Supercarriers dominating subcapitals, as far as with the titan's DD I think it should be an anti-carrier weapon, good for 1 shotting a carrier, and possibly making the doomsday unable to hit anything that doesn't have a jump drive, make the jump drive into some sort of a signature the DD device needs to be able to lock onto, so without on it cannot get a lock to fire. That way only capital will be at risk (and possibly black ops battleships but black ops is a different kind of technology so that could be incorporated into some kind of backstory into how it would not affect it).
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Kazzzi
Amarr Heathen Legion Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2011.08.26 11:44:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Cipreh I have an idea on how to limit supercaps and titans, in a way that would help to balance the game, while remaining in-line with the "immersion" of the game. These are massive ships, they require immense amount of supplies, fuel, and crew to operate.
The logical extension of that, is that in order to make use of these, you must control the infrastructure(sov)required to supply them. Limit the amount of titans or super caps that an alliance can field (not own), around the amount of space they control. They can field one supercap per system they control, and one titan for every five systems they control. (all numbers are arbitrary, and subject to change)
This might not be the end all, be all fix, but it would certainly limit the ability of any single alliance to drop 50 titans, and 100 supercaps on a single fight, and wtfdoomsday their way to victory, 10 minutes at a time.
I too played Master of Orion 2. |
Centra Spike
Caldari Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.26 14:11:00 -
[178]
We should just have instanced PVP with ship-type limits, but first we'll need to sign up for either the Alliance or the Horde. Please re-size your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Merrik Talorra
Caldari Northstar Cabal Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.08.26 16:10:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Kazzzi
Originally by: Cipreh I have an idea on how to limit supercaps and titans, in a way that would help to balance the game, while remaining in-line with the "immersion" of the game. These are massive ships, they require immense amount of supplies, fuel, and crew to operate.
The logical extension of that, is that in order to make use of these, you must control the infrastructure(sov)required to supply them. Limit the amount of titans or super caps that an alliance can field (not own), around the amount of space they control. They can field one supercap per system they control, and one titan for every five systems they control. (all numbers are arbitrary, and subject to change)
This might not be the end all, be all fix, but it would certainly limit the ability of any single alliance to drop 50 titans, and 100 supercaps on a single fight, and wtfdoomsday their way to victory, 10 minutes at a time.
I too played Master of Orion 2.
Was that "Battle at Antares?"
God I loved that game.
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Jones Bones
Minmatar Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.08.26 18:15:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Centra Spike We should just have instanced PVP with ship-type limits, but first we'll need to sign up for either the Alliance or the Horde.
No! Warhammer Online proved only 2 factions leads to "blobbing" and "unfair PVP". At least create 3 factions a la Planetside and DaoC.
Speaking of which...PS2 is in development...
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Snot Shot
Minmatar Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2011.08.26 19:37:00 -
[181]
I will take anyones mom if you don't want her... . Just Sayin..........
BAM!! HEAD SHOT!!! |
Justyce Stargazer
Amarr Endless Destruction Imperial 0rder
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Posted - 2011.08.26 20:41:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Snot Shot I will take anyones mom if you don't want her... .
Im sorry but snot shot cannot have the last word in any thread.....just saying.
Anyways, an SC nerf is needed and most sane people can see that. Someone mentioned earlier defender missiles. How about coming out with another T2 variant of your standard destroyer that specializes in taking drones, fighters and fighter-bombers out? Give it a decent tank for it's size and allow it to decimate a supercarriers drones with bonuses that ONLY apply to killing drones, fighters and FB's . Not only would you give the sub-cap fleets a chance at taking down SC's, you would also give a boost to the lagging destroyer whose only real role in null sec atm is as an interdictor.
The only other viable option is a boost to the dread which also needs to happen. ****ing off my enemies, one stinking pod at a time. |
Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.26 21:52:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Justyce Stargazer
Anyways, an SC nerf is needed and most sane people can see that.
Most sane people can also see that battleships are over powered in large groups.
Nerf battlehips
Then nerf large groups.
Then you can nerf BC's because obviously anything that can kill an overpowered ship (Hurricanes killed a Nyx and nearly an Avatar in the middle of its own supercap fleet 2 nights ago) must be overpowered itself.
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Justyce Stargazer
Amarr Endless Destruction Imperial 0rder
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Posted - 2011.08.26 23:16:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Justyce Stargazer
Then nerf large groups.
I think you will find quite a few people arguing for the neutering of child bearing people in PL. Be careful what you ask for..... ****ing off my enemies, one stinking pod at a time. |
McKinlay
Caldari North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.27 01:31:00 -
[185]
It was only a Hel
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Headerman
Minmatar Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.08.27 02:06:00 -
[186]
Seriously, is a nerf needed at all?
Effective counters to them are large BS fleets as well as decent counter SC fleet. You could say it is the smaller alliances main weapon again big alliance numbers.
MM decided not to defend their space and lost it.
If SCs are nerfed, how long will it be before people demand titans to be nerfed?
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Kalissa
Caldari Sacred Templars RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.08.27 07:46:00 -
[187]
Edited by: Kalissa on 27/08/2011 07:53:38 I'll start off this by saying I own and fly both a SC and a Titan so it's not like I'm suggesting something that won't affect me.
Ok, lets face facts the CCP patch for the winter isn't gonna be good news for Titans/Supercarriers. I've read the thread so far and most of the arguements against the change are coming from the side that stands to lose the most and also predictably the people who are losing out have the opposite view.
Lets not be naive about this, if the situation was reversed then viewpoints from individuals would probably change.
But the current state of the game can't continue, when you have a powerbloc that can field collectively what the DRF can right now it's not good for the game, no-one is gonna fight those kinda odds. When the NC saw what the DRF had when they attacked they did the only sane thing someone could in that situation and decided not to fight. This isn't good for anyone, it's horrible for supercap pilots who can't get to use them for fear of being nuked by 25 DD's at once and it can't be too much more fun for the other guys who form up a big fleet but never ever get the fight they crave.
Powerbloc's have formed in the past and CCP haven't had to make changes, but the present one is highlighting a fact that shows CCP never envisioned just how prolific they would become when they released them (or they'd have made them a damn sight harder/costlier to manufacture)
The problem with Titans/SC's as I see it right now is they're the jack of all trades that don't really require a decent support fleet in any given situation if you have enough of them.
I'd make the following changes to even things out a bit :
1) Make DD's once an hour like they used to be and also only useable on capital class vessels. (no more DD'ing logistic ships!) 2) Remove the ability for SC's to remote rep. 3) Remove the ability for SC's to use anything but fighter bombers, since FB's are only good for capitals/structures then it would mean SC's would need a decent subcap/carrier fleet with them or face getting into trouble. It would also give a much needed role for people in carriers who I imagine feel a little left out with the current state of affairs.
I think the changes would make Supers in general still very powerful but also not a weapon that could be weilded on the battlefield with as much impunity as they are now.
The general consensus from what I'm hearing that the winter patch will see a buff to Dreadnaughts which frankly I think it well overdue and that also some kind of spool up timer for anything with a jump drive will be introduced apparently based on ship size and the distance to be jumped (so no more hotdropping with a cyno in Kestrel!)
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P42ALPHA
Gallente Epidemic. THE D0MINION
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Posted - 2011.08.27 08:00:00 -
[188]
Originally by: White Tree This thread is hurt feelings grounds zero and it's hilarious.
When I got this far in the tread I was thinking the same exact thing. It makes coming to the forums worth it again!!!
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Shuriath
Caldari Assisted Genocide Unprovoked Aggression
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Posted - 2011.08.27 08:04:00 -
[189]
I Say all we need to do is get DRF WN Xdeath NC. and co to stop sleeping together. if they break up all will be right in the world, no children will starve, summer wont be so hot and winter wont be so cold... I think its the right thing to do.
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P42ALPHA
Gallente Epidemic. THE D0MINION
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Posted - 2011.08.27 08:07:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar
Originally by: Cpt Bunny
Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar
Originally by: Cpt Bunny Think Rock , Paper, Scisors guys,
Supers just need a counter, thats all.
Solution:
Black Ops redesign: Heavy Bomb Launchers X 3-4 Can inflict heavy dmg to Supers and Titans only. hitting a sub cap would have the effect of being hit by a normal bomb.
maybe at the same time, make defender missiles work again?
Alter the Black Ops build requirements to make use of a moon goo that is not in the north :)
Something along these lines would do the trick.
So make an incredibly expensive, hard to train for ship be the counter to massive blobs of Supers... requiring in and of themselves MANY of these ships to have enough DPS to burn down a super, only to have the 40 Titans on grid to DD 40-billion ISK worth of ships every N-minutes?
I don't mean to be a hater, but this idea may not be fully thought through :)
Well i dont think T1 bs's should be the counter to a hard to train for , expensive super? do you ?
it just comes down to how many black ops per super kill? 5-7 could be about right.
treat them just as heavy bombers. cyno > drop bomb > warp and cloak. supers and titans should not get to lock them.
So Super-capital bombing runs? 2 Trillion ISK down the drain of the most-expensive hard-to-build ships in the game requiring months/years of construction because 40 Black Ops bombers bombed a cyno that went up when a hostile Supercap fleet jumped through the cyno, with the only defense for the Supers to effectively bubble their own cyno when the Supers land on grid so no bombers can warp in to hit them?
Hmm...
Or dont cyno a lone ship in that takes these so called years to build. Think ahead, or like anything else in EVE live with the fact your alts ship is no longer god in the game. Cause hell if I were to jump somewere in a ship that took that long to build, and I had to pay good money ot buy a alt to fly it. And why should 40 players not be able to take down one ship, that in its self is a ton of time. and accumulated about the same as your precious.
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Misanth
Amarr RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Limitless Inc.
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Posted - 2011.08.27 12:16:00 -
[191]
Edited by: Misanth on 27/08/2011 12:16:55
Originally by: Kalissa 3) Remove the ability for SC's to use anything but fighter bombers, since FB's are only good for capitals/structures then it would mean SC's would need a decent subcap/carrier fleet with them or face getting into trouble. It would also give a much needed role for people in carriers who I imagine feel a little left out with the current state of affairs.
The other way around. Let them purely field regular drones and Fighters, like they used to. The damage would be below dreads again, with the hp boost they needed. If you put a FB/Fighter only bay on those things they'll only be used as anti-capital or vs structures. That's the dread role, and that's perfectly illustrating what went wrong with the mothership changes.
CCPs idea of 'giving an incentitive to put supers on the field' was just wrong. They didn't need damage. They needed survivability. They will still need survivability, but they don't need damage.
Take away damage capabilities (other than some weak self-defence, i.e. drone bay on both of them) and you have viable supers again. |
methodmo
Caldari Free Lapland
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Posted - 2011.08.27 20:11:00 -
[192]
no more then 4 cs or 2 titans per system...fairly simple let the cyno have a built in counter that let ppl jump by mass of their ship(add parameter to cynofields counts only for cs or titans)...if say titan nr 3 or cs nr 5 wants to jump thrue he/she is denied,at the same time every system(can be done by adding a parameter to systems)will automaticly set the counter at 2 titan arrivals or 4 cs arrivals so there is no cheating by using multiple cyno's,its a pretty simple solution and ships stay unchanged...everybody happy...
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Feligast
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.27 21:31:00 -
[193]
Originally by: methodmo no more then 4 cs or 2 titans per system...fairly simple let the cyno have a built in counter that let ppl jump by mass of their ship(add parameter to cynofields counts only for cs or titans)...if say titan nr 3 or cs nr 5 wants to jump thrue he/she is denied,at the same time every system(can be done by adding a parameter to systems)will automaticly set the counter at 2 titan arrivals or 4 cs arrivals so there is no cheating by using multiple cyno's,its a pretty simple solution and ships stay unchanged...everybody happy...
Does that count logged out ships? How can the system tell if they're not there?
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Ladie Scarlet
Amarr GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.28 06:10:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Justyce Stargazer
Anyways, an SC nerf is needed and most sane people can see that.
Most sane people can also see that battleships are over powered in large groups.
Nerf battlehips
Then nerf large groups.
Then you can nerf BC's because obviously anything that can kill an overpowered ship (Hurricanes killed a Nyx and nearly an Avatar in the middle of its own supercap fleet 2 nights ago) must be overpowered itself.
Nerf anything that gives PL a hard time.
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General Altathamus
Amarr Templars of Space Northern Associates.
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Posted - 2011.08.28 06:12:00 -
[195]
nerf blobs, bring solo/small gang pvp back
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Theodoric Darkwind
Gallente PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.08.28 07:00:00 -
[196]
Originally by: General Altathamus nerf blobs, bring solo/small gang pvp back
This would be more directed at a fix for lowsec and npc null to encourage more people to live there.
Sov warfare will always be about large fleets and capital fights, the issue at stake is that titans and SCs are soo powerful currently that they barely even need the support of subcaps and carriers/dreads and there is now a huge number of them (far more than CCP was probably imagining would be built).
I remember my first big nullsec fight (BDV3-T siege), just on grid at the outpost was over 40 titans and over 100 supercarriers with about 200 more carriers/dreads in support, with only a small number of subcaps with them (the subcap support was mainly just dics/hics and ewar). This was only about half the supers/capitals that PL and friends had dropped into the system for the fight, the rest were killing poses. A supercap fleet of that size is uncounterable except by bringing a bigger blob of supercaps (and then your going from bad lag to dead node ala 020).
The main thing is that supers need to be less effective against subcaps. A supercap fleet should require significant subcap and carrier/dread support
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Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.28 17:56:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Theodoric Darkwind This was only about half the supers/capitals that PL and friends had dropped into the system for the fight, the rest were killing poses.
What, dude I don't even think we've ever brought supers to 6VDT, even back when we owned it.
Originally by: Theodoric Darkwind A supercap fleet should require significant subcap and carrier/dread support
Says who and why should they?
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methodmo
Caldari Free Lapland
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Posted - 2011.08.28 19:20:00 -
[198]
Quote: Does that count logged out ships? How can the system tell if they're not there?
simple the counter stays at the arrival number if the ship logs of since they dont arrive anywhere else they could add the parameter spawn for ship jumping out,if it didnt jump out its in system.when a ship jumps out it gives automaticly a signal departure.logging of wont give that sign so ship must still be there preventing cheating on that. its easy to add/write such a code,and its a win win for everyone,no more supercap blobs and ships are unchanged giving carriers/dreads/supcapfleets their role back so everyone can play normal again :)
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Metal Dude
Gallente Destructive Influence Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.08.28 20:03:00 -
[199]
FFS. you ******s along with CCP keep missing the fkn point. IT DON'T MATTER WHAT SHIP YOU BRING, WHOMEVER HAS MORE OF THOSE SHIPS WILL WIN!!! If it's not Titans, than it's SCs, than it's Dreads, Carriers, BS, BC, Frigs... The problem is fkn NAPs/Blobs, not the ships.
The truth will set you free
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Thorian Baalnorn
Caldari Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas.
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Posted - 2011.08.28 20:10:00 -
[200]
Their have several suggested fixes for the super cap problem. Some of which i have suggested including making a black ops class of ships(Frig,CR, BC, and BS) that are (super) capital hunters, as well giving the dread a mini DD that does about 625k damage every 5 min in siege but it scales to size based (only) on sig rad. With a sig rad of 10k being the 100% damage threshold then scaling down from there based on the targets sig rad. A normal cap would receive about 30% damage or so from the mini DD and a BS would receive about 3-7% depending on setup. I think the mini DD would be a great boost to dreads and also give other alliances that arent super cap heavy at least better odds. You can see my changes to dreads and the creation of the black ops class, including ewar and tackle that is effective against supers, here: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1570113
Another option is to make fighters and fighter bombers only able too target caps, supercaps and structures. Furthermore, give carriers and super carriers a normal drone bay( like 2500 m3 for carriers and 5000 m3 for SCs) and make them stick to the 5 drones max( gobs of fighters and FBs could still be launched just like now) . I hear a lot of tears hitting the floor with that one because OMG I HAVE TO RUN SANCTUMS IN A......A......A..... BATTLESHIP!!!!!!!! On top of this limit the Titans DD to caps and supers.
Regardless of how you look at the situation. It is severely out of balance as it is. And suggested counters would require at least a 10:1 ( BS:SC for example) ratio to even be remotely effective. The supers were not designed to be an entire fleet. They were designed to lead fleets and be supported by caps and sub caps. And the only counter for a 200 SC fleet is a **** ton of non supers on other side or an equal SC fleet. Or you can always run away and give up the space. Why throw money away on a battle you know your going to lose? I believe its called a strategic withdraw. With the way things are i cannot see how people on either side are having any fun with these lopsided fights. Sure its great for the lols.. for a while. But then it gets old when their is no one left to fight and people stop playing because the game is boring. Then the people getting their LOLs are bored and leave too after ruining the game for everyone else and themselves...
..... That is the ultimate fail cascade and the demise of most MMOs. A group takes advantage of a game mechanic that isnt working properly as intended, uses it to their advantage to rule the game before the devs can get it fixed so they can say " IWON(insert MMO)" . Everyone not taking advantage quits, the ones taking advantage get bored and quit and move to the next MMO. Rinse and Repeat.
I do know this if CCP waits till the winter patch to fix this problem they are probably going to lose another 10% of their player base by then.
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Taram Caldar
Caldari Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2011.08.28 20:36:00 -
[201]
Edited by: Taram Caldar on 28/08/2011 20:40:09
Actually I don't think things are all that broken. A few things need to be toned down and a few things need to be tweaked but overall it shouldn't be necessary to nerf anything to uselessness nor to introduce yet more broken ships to the game. A moderate rebalancing is the best bet and it's fairly easy to do.
My proposal to 'fix' super carriers: 1) Remove the immunity to EWAR, allow them to be tackled/jammed/etc. 2) Remove fighter-bomber's ability to target structures or sub-caps. Make them the anti-capital ship they were intended to be. They can still use standard fighters like any other carrier so it's not like this cripples them against sub-caps, just tones them down a bit. 3) Reduce tank on super carriers to max out at about 35-40 million EHP. Right now the Aeon is extremely broken and can have well over 100 million EHP. Seriously... it's got a better tank than a large tower.
To fix Titans: 1) Remove ability to use the DD on anything but capital class vessels. 2) Retain immunity to EWAR but make it vulnerable to ewar from a sieged dread or from tower modules.
Buffs to 'normal' caps: Dreads: 1) Add a bonus to Dreadnaughts so that when sieged their webs/scrams/warp disruptors can affect Titans. 2) Reduce siege cycle time from 10 minutes to 5 minutes, cut siege fuel cost by 50%. 3) Remove inability for other ships to rep dreads while in siege.
Carriers: No changes necessary. They are fine as they are.
Buffs to towers: Adjust tower ewar modules so that they can affect all ships, including titans. Someone shouldn't be able to jump their titan to a hostile tower, deliberately, and get free ganks on ships at the tower without risking being tackled by the tower.
The above changes will: 1) Not overly 'nerf' supercaps but remove their absolute 'i win' potential due to making it easier to catch them in fights. It also balances some of the more insane tanks possible currently. Also removes them as an anti-conventional force, which they never should have been. 2) Give a role back to dreadnaughts by giving them an added role: Titan tackler 3) Make dreads less of a 'suicide ship' by reducing siege cycle time and allowing them to be remotely repaired while in siege. 4) Make it so folks can't just drop a couple super caps on a tower and strip it of defenses with impunity before the owners can reasonably respond. 5) Removes the 'I'll just hot drop anything that jumps to this tower with my super and get free kills' button.
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Carai an'Caldazar
Amarr Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.08.28 21:14:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Taram Caldar Edited by: Taram Caldar on 28/08/2011 20:50:41 The above changes will: 1) Not overly 'nerf' supercaps but remove their absolute 'i win' potential due to making it easier to catch them in fights. It also balances some of the more insane tanks possible currently. Also removes them as an anti-conventional force, which they never should have been. 2) Give a role back to dreadnaughts by giving them an added role: Titan tackler 3) Make dreads less of a 'suicide ship' by reducing siege cycle time and allowing them to be remotely repaired while in siege. 4) Make it so folks can't just drop a couple super caps on a tower and strip it of defenses with impunity before the owners can reasonably respond. 5) Removes the 'I'll just hot drop anything that jumps to this tower with my super and get free kills' button. 6) Forces super cap blobs to have a support fleet capable of countering an enemy sub-cap fleet. If they go in alone with these changes in place a strong AHAC/BC fleet with logi support could wreck absolute havoc upon them.
Lots of interesting ideas here, though the one that seems not fully thought through is the Sieged (and stationary) Dreadnoughts being Titan tacklers. Dreadnoughts already have severe tracking issues of Supercaps moving, and having to have Dreadnoughts chasing and/or dropping siege every 5 km just to keep a Titan tackled just seems silly.
I like the idea about removing DD's against subcaps, kinda... for instance, the kill of the MC titan in 49- years ago never would have happened if an Interdictor couldn't tank the DD. It'd be nice to see DD's scale with sig radius, still being an instant kill for the unprepared, but allowing most ship types the chance to tank a shot (assuming properly fit of course). Then again, do we want to reintroduce DD-fits?
Regarding spider tanking Dreadnoughts using Triaged carriers... I'm not sure this would have the effect that you are looking for. It would increase capital blobs for instance against subcaps and towers, but likely do nothing against Supercaps (DD's) and cause more problems than it solves. There are many ways Dreadnoughts can be given a role that fixes their issues, rather than working around them (and leaving aspects of them fundamentally broken) as proposed here. As long as they can be 1-shot from Titans, stuck in siege for 10 minutes (or 5 as suggested) once deployed, can be speed tanked by their preferred target type, and have sub-par DPS to a Supercap deployed on the field... they will remain effectively useless for nullsec sovereignty warfare beyond flying only while no chance of opposition will occur. They need to either be the end-all-be-all of Structure killers, or be given some bite as well as survivability when it comes to fleet warfare to get their edge back. If Dreadnoughts are to be the counter to Super Capital blobs... you can't be losing 40x Dreadnoughts every time the DD's cycle timer is up. ~Carai an'Caldazar~ -- Dawn of a new Empire --
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Halleos
Amarr Point of No Return Waterboard
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Posted - 2011.08.28 22:06:00 -
[203]
Edited by: Halleos on 28/08/2011 22:06:45 Sounds like they need to Nerf everything and buff everything at the same time . Atleast thats the signal im getting from every post in this thread. |
Headerman
Minmatar Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.08.28 22:26:00 -
[204]
Haha CCPsa just trollin, they aint gonna change diddly
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SunburnedFrog
Caldari Capital Systems INC Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.08.28 22:47:00 -
[205]
personally i own 3 supercaps
im happy with the nerf your all just mad because your alliances fail
i mean my super carriers kill npcs just fine and my titan well it just sits in a pos bridging my miners left right and centre.
dont you all feel a little bit silly moaning about a perfectly good class of ship ???
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Snot Shot
Minmatar Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2011.08.28 22:58:00 -
[206]
Buff Dreads and the problem is solved.... . Just Sayin..........
BAM!! HEAD SHOT!!! |
Samathiaa
Amarr Phantom Squad Atlas.
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Posted - 2011.08.28 23:15:00 -
[207]
I will say somthing even tho no one will read it.
when lag in 0.0 fights is so bad that your gun cycle once every 10mins and that DDs are the only thing working and u have 40 **** on the field. every 10mins 40 more ships die.
Remove DD titans have guns... and nerf Scariers HP by 30% and remove remote ecm.
my 2c.
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Thorian Baalnorn
Caldari Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas.
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Posted - 2011.08.28 23:36:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Taram Caldar Edited by: Taram Caldar on 28/08/2011 20:50:41
My proposal to 'fix' super carriers: 1) Remove the immunity to EWAR, allow them to be tackled/jammed/etc. 2) Remove fighter-bomber's ability to target structures or sub-caps. Make them the anti-capital ship they were intended to be. They can still use standard fighters like any other carrier so it's not like this cripples them against sub-caps, just tones them down a bit. 3) Reduce tank on super carriers to max out at about 35-40 million EHP. Right now the Aeon is extremely broken and can have well over 100 million EHP. Seriously... it's got a better tank than a large tower.
2- ehh, im still undecided it i think FBs should be able to attack structures. 1/3- This would nearly make SCs worthless as a combination. On cost, i can buy 20 plus faction towers for what it cost for one super. And if i pimp it out your looking at 50 or so faction towers. Towers really arent a good comparison as they provide two completely different functions in the game.
Quote: Other stuff
* What dreads need is a more defined role than sieging structures. they should be at least semi useful in cap fights and not just easy targets. Especially with sov warfare changes. Dreads will become even less important as sov mechanics change so we are sitting around bashing structures all day and waiting on timers, etc. The sad part is a dread puts out about as much dps out of siege as a normal BS. Just an overpriced BS out of siege and siege is not really useful on the battlefield if your target moves.
* Titans should of never been able to hit anything that moves with a focused fire weapon.
Quote: 1) Not overly 'nerf' supercaps but remove their absolute 'i win' potential due to making it easier to catch them in fights. It also balances some of the more insane tanks possible currently. Also removes them as an anti-conventional force, which they never should have been.
- I think your nerf to super carriers , nerfs them more than you realize.
Quote: 2) Give a role back to dreadnaughts by giving them an added role: Titan tackler
- tackling isnt really that large of an issue. A dread is going to be a prime target for both fighter bombers and DD , not to mention it moves about as fast as a horse with 2 broken legs. Not really what you want to be tackle. I doubt many would really use this feature unless you gave it a ridiculous range like 75 KM or more.
Quote: 3) Make dreads less of a 'suicide ship' by reducing siege cycle time and allowing them to be remotely repaired while in siege.
I rather see one or the other but not both.
Quote: 4) Make it so folks can't just drop a couple super caps on a tower and strip it of defenses with impunity before the owners can reasonably respond.
I agree with this and that no ship should be immune to tower ewar.
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Headerman
Minmatar Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.08.29 00:48:00 -
[209]
Remove fighter bombers, leaving just fighters. Make them escort Dreads (as they are currently) for Sov warfare
easy.
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Ivoryman
Gallente Silent Service Operations Blanket Men
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Posted - 2011.08.29 02:35:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Metal Dude FFS. you ******s along with CCP keep missing the fkn point. IT DON'T MATTER WHAT SHIP YOU BRING, WHOMEVER HAS MORE OF THOSE SHIPS WILL WIN!!! If it's not Titans, than it's SCs, than it's Dreads, Carriers, BS, BC, Frigs... The problem is fkn NAPs/Blobs, not the ships.
This. The problem started when alliances were implemented, and the number of standings an alliance could have were near unlimited. Limit the number of standings an alliance/corporation can have. If your overview fills up with neutrals you will not spend the time to check each before firing. Break up the napfest, make warfare more localized to your space and not a napfest blob that can roam the universe and do what a few players desire influence-wise.
Do not change any ship at all tbh.
x-AWAR, mostly retired |
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Suitonia
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.08.29 02:51:00 -
[211]
Originally by: Ivoryman
Originally by: Metal Dude FFS. you ******s along with CCP keep missing the fkn point. IT DON'T MATTER WHAT SHIP YOU BRING, WHOMEVER HAS MORE OF THOSE SHIPS WILL WIN!!! If it's not Titans, than it's SCs, than it's Dreads, Carriers, BS, BC, Frigs... The problem is fkn NAPs/Blobs, not the ships.
This. The problem started when alliances were implemented, and the number of standings an alliance could have were near unlimited. Limit the number of standings an alliance/corporation can have. If your overview fills up with neutrals you will not spend the time to check each before firing. Break up the napfest, make warfare more localized to your space and not a napfest blob that can roam the universe and do what a few players desire influence-wise.
Do not change any ship at all tbh.
There is nothing more hilarious than Metal Dude whining about blobs and napfests while being in the alliance with the current biggest napfest and blob in the game.
I don't think adding Arbitrary limits to how many alliances or corporations you can have blue will make any difference to the size of coalitions. And personally, I feel like adding in things like this which make the game harder, but only from a UI Perspective is a bad idea. There were big alliances/coalitions from before alliances were implemented into the game anyway. (FA / VA etc.). There are too many ways to get around it too, unless you feel like adding in tons of small stupid limiting rules, and in my opinion it will be just as annoying for smaller groups who have several smaller groups blue than it will be for massive mega-alliances to have each-other blue.
---
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Ivoryman
Gallente Silent Service Operations Blanket Men
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Posted - 2011.08.29 03:43:00 -
[212]
Originally by: Suitonia
Originally by: Ivoryman
Originally by: Metal Dude FFS. you ******s along with CCP keep missing the fkn point. IT DON'T MATTER WHAT SHIP YOU BRING, WHOMEVER HAS MORE OF THOSE SHIPS WILL WIN!!! If it's not Titans, than it's SCs, than it's Dreads, Carriers, BS, BC, Frigs... The problem is fkn NAPs/Blobs, not the ships.
This. The problem started when alliances were implemented, and the number of standings an alliance could have were near unlimited. Limit the number of standings an alliance/corporation can have. If your overview fills up with neutrals you will not spend the time to check each before firing. Break up the napfest, make warfare more localized to your space and not a napfest blob that can roam the universe and do what a few players desire influence-wise.
Do not change any ship at all tbh.
There is nothing more hilarious than Metal Dude whining about blobs and napfests while being in the alliance with the current biggest napfest and blob in the game.
I don't think adding Arbitrary limits to how many alliances or corporations you can have blue will make any difference to the size of coalitions. And personally, I feel like adding in things like this which make the game harder, but only from a UI Perspective is a bad idea. There were big alliances/coalitions from before alliances were implemented into the game anyway. (FA / VA etc.). There are too many ways to get around it too, unless you feel like adding in tons of small stupid limiting rules, and in my opinion it will be just as annoying for smaller groups who have several smaller groups blue than it will be for massive mega-alliances to have each-other blue.
I could expand on what I said a lot. Not going to be bothered really. Someone else may take it and run with it, so to speak. Just think about what I propose for a bit. Really. Yes there are ways to work around anything. Make it more of a hassle to do that (omg I cant just click and be friends *or similar laziness*) and huge power blocks will diminish eventually and the sand box will be more fun for everyone.
With that in mind (if players use their minds tbh), I would think sitting around thinking about how to 'balance' ships would be more time consuming/code intensive than a few simple changes to standings limits... which when you re-read the thread, the issue with most people seems to be the ability for one 'blue list' to field a stupid amount of the games highest-end ships in a conflict, thus declaring said ships 'OP' and in need of 'balancing'.
Just my opinion, and adding a different twist to a great discussion thread. Example: give an alliance 2-3 blue slots for alliance, 5-7 for blue non-alliance corps, get rid of red, orange (keep something for war for empire?) and forget 'balancing' ships so much ..think more neutral and
x-AWAR, mostly retired |
Curtis Mandeville
Gallente Silent Service Operations Blanket Men
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Posted - 2011.08.29 03:52:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Ivoryman
Originally by: Suitonia
Originally by: Ivoryman
Originally by: Metal Dude FFS. you ******s along with CCP keep missing the fkn point. IT DON'T MATTER WHAT SHIP YOU BRING, WHOMEVER HAS MORE OF THOSE SHIPS WILL WIN!!! If it's not Titans, than it's SCs, than it's Dreads, Carriers, BS, BC, Frigs... The problem is fkn NAPs/Blobs, not the ships.
This. The problem started when alliances were implemented, and the number of standings an alliance could have were near unlimited. Limit the number of standings an alliance/corporation can have. If your overview fills up with neutrals you will not spend the time to check each before firing. Break up the napfest, make warfare more localized to your space and not a napfest blob that can roam the universe and do what a few players desire influence-wise.
Do not change any ship at all tbh.
There is nothing more hilarious than Metal Dude whining about blobs and napfests while being in the alliance with the current biggest napfest and blob in the game.
I don't think adding Arbitrary limits to how many alliances or corporations you can have blue will make any difference to the size of coalitions. And personally, I feel like adding in things like this which make the game harder, but only from a UI Perspective is a bad idea. There were big alliances/coalitions from before alliances were implemented into the game anyway. (FA / VA etc.). There are too many ways to get around it too, unless you feel like adding in tons of small stupid limiting rules, and in my opinion it will be just as annoying for smaller groups who have several smaller groups blue than it will be for massive mega-alliances to have each-other blue.
I could expand on what I said a lot. Not going to be bothered really. Someone else may take it and run with it, so to speak. Just think about what I propose for a bit. Really. Yes there are ways to work around anything. Make it more of a hassle to do that (omg I cant just click and be friends *or similar laziness*) and huge power blocks will diminish eventually and the sand box will be more fun for everyone.
With that in mind (if players use their minds tbh), I would think sitting around thinking about how to 'balance' ships would be more time consuming/code intensive than a few simple changes to standings limits... which when you re-read the thread, the issue with most people seems to be the ability for one 'blue list' to field a stupid amount of the games highest-end ships in a conflict, thus declaring said ships 'OP' and in need of 'balancing'.
Just my opinion, and adding a different twist to a great discussion thread. Example: give an alliance 2-3 blue slots for alliance, 5-7 for blue non-alliance corps, get rid of red, orange (keep something for war for empire?) and forget 'balancing' ships so much ..think more neutral and
I agree.
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Viribus
Gallente Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
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Posted - 2011.08.29 04:51:00 -
[214]
Limiting standings is kind of a dumb, lazy fix.
The better solution would be to make the logistics of fleets exponentially more difficult and costly the larger they get, thereby allowing smaller and more maneuverable fleets to realistically pick off and inflict damage on more unwieldy fleets
And have sov targets vulnerable to guerilla warfare
But CCP would probably **** all that up anyway to maybe the standings limit is a safer bet
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Thorian Baalnorn
Caldari Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas.
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Posted - 2011.08.29 05:48:00 -
[215]
Originally by: Ivoryman Da Quote pyramid
Ok here is the problem.
* I can counter 200 frigates. * I can counter 200 cruisers. * I can counter 200 battlecruisers. * I can counter 200 battleships. * I can counter 200 carriers and dreads.
.. All of these i can counter without using supers for all the reasons i cant counter 200 Scarriers.
* I CANNOT counter 200 super carriers.
Why?
* Because I dont have 200 super carrier pilots. * Because they are immune to EWAR. * Because they have a drone/fighter/DD for every occasion. * Because they can make their own cap out of thin air. * Because they can have over 90% resist on the north side of 60 mil EHP with NO RESIST HOLES. * Because they can spider tank literally till the end of time. * Because they can put out 8000 DPS each WHILE Spider tanking and keeping each others cap topped off. And finally
* Because they are by far the most overpowered ship in the game in a group. In fact in a group with skilled pvp pilots they are literally not stoppable except with an even bigger supercap fleet. The only effective counter to 200 Scarriers, besides 300 Scrarriers, is 200 Titans. Then WTF you counter the Titans with?
Scenario: You face 150 enemy Scarriers and 50 Titans.
*The group of Titans can do 150 million damage every 10 minutes with just DD. That pretty much insta pops an enemy SC or titan every 3-5 minutes( depending on how good your officer gear is).
* The SCarriers can put out 1,200,000 DPS a second. They can pop an enemy super every 2 minutes and im being really optomistic for their primaries here.
*WHILE they make out of nothing.... 65 cap every sec each or collectively can produce 9750 cap/sec just from remote transfer.Thus making all them immune to any type mass neuting.
*WHILE they can remote rep 45000 dps a second consistently because they can make cap out of nothing.You would have to consistently do AT LEAST 450k DPS just to counter the spider tanking at 90% resist and thats not even making any headway on the 60 mil EHP.
*They cannot be jammed, or dampened so they can target for these whoever they want as long they stay in a 25 KM radius of a center(anchor).
Meanwhile while they are LOLing and spidertanking you while playing XBOX their 2500-3000 fighter(bombers) are not only blotting out the sun but your life like a swarm of locusts.
Their is no other ships in the game that are this untouchable and the "* Because" above tells you why no other classes are this untouchable.
Are these ships overpowered? Grossly, because people use them as groups with little or no other support instead of as spearheads with other ships.Is it wrong? No just uncreative and boring to win pixels.
Should something be done to limit NAPFEST? Yes and no. Large battles should be encouraged but large permanent handholding BFF needs to go. How you achieve this and still make the game fun, i have not the slightest. But i would start with removing the reasons to napfest in the first place. And their are many aspects to sov that need to be addressed to discourage handholding and owning large swaths of space and renting it out to other alliances. But trying to limit an alliances friends is going to be tedious and overall not very effective. Instead you need to limit the need or want for friends.
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SunburnedFrog
Caldari Capital Systems INC Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.08.29 07:19:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn Edited by: Thorian Baalnorn on 29/08/2011 07:10:52
Originally by: Ivoryman Da Quote pyramid
Ok here is the problem.
* I can counter 200 frigates. * I can counter 200 cruisers. * I can counter 200 battlecruisers. * I can counter 200 battleships. * I can counter 200 carriers and dreads.
.. All of these i can counter without using supers for all the reasons i cant counter 200 Scarriers.
* I CANNOT counter 200 super carriers.
Why?
* Because I dont have 200 super carrier pilots. * Because they are immune to EWAR. * Because they have a drone/fighter for every occasion. * Because they can make their own cap out of thin air. * Because they can have over 90% resist on the north side of 60 mil EHP with NO RESIST HOLES. * Because they can spider tank literally till the end of time. * Because they can put out 8000 DPS each WHILE Spider tanking and keeping each others cap topped off. And finally
* Because they are by far the most overpowered ship in the game in a group. In fact in a group with skilled pvp pilots they are literally not stoppable except with an even bigger supercap fleet. The only effective counter to 200 Scarriers, besides 300 Scrarriers, is 200 Titans. Then WTF you counter the Titans with?
Scenario: You face 150 enemy Scarriers and 50 Titans.
*The group of Titans can do 150 million damage every 10 minutes with just DD. That pretty much insta pops an enemy SC or titan every 3-5 minutes( depending on how good your officer gear is).
* The SCarriers can put out 1,200,000 DPS a second. They can pop an enemy super every 2 minutes and im being really optomistic for their primaries here.
*WHILE they make out of nothing.... 65 cap every sec each or collectively can produce 9750 cap/sec just from remote transfer.Thus making all them immune to any type mass neuting.
*WHILE they can remote rep 45000 dps a second consistently because they can make cap out of nothing.You would have to consistently do AT LEAST 450k DPS just to counter the spider tanking at 90% resist and thats not even making any headway on the 60 mil EHP.
*They cannot be jammed, or dampened so they can target for these whoever they want as long they stay in a 25 KM radius of a center(anchor).
Meanwhile while they are LOLing and spidertanking you while playing XBOX their 2500-3000 fighter(bombers) are not only blotting out the sun but your life like a swarm of locusts.
Their is no other ships in the game that are this untouchable and the "* Because" above tells you why no other classes are this untouchable.
Are these ships overpowered? Grossly, because people use them as groups with little or no other support instead of as spearheads with other ships.Is it wrong? No just uncreative and boring to win pixels.
Should something be done to limit NAPFEST? Yes and no. Large battles should be encouraged but large permanent handholding BFF needs to go. How you achieve this and still make the game fun, i have not the slightest. But i would start with removing the reasons to napfest in the first place. And their are many aspects to sov that need to be addressed to discourage handholding and owning large swaths of space and renting it out to other alliances. But trying to limit an alliances friends is going to be tedious and overall not very effective. Instead you need to limit the need or want for friends.
DERP
i can counter 200 supers its easy - just hire PL not to shoot you - its all about the isk baby
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ScheenK
Gallente Constantine.
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Posted - 2011.08.29 07:34:00 -
[217]
Originally by: Justyce Stargazer
Originally by: Snot Shot I will take anyones mom if you don't want her... .
Im sorry but snot shot cannot have the last word in any thread.....just saying.
Anyways, an SC nerf is needed and most sane people can see that. Someone mentioned earlier defender missiles. How about coming out with another T2 variant of your standard destroyer that specializes in taking drones, fighters and fighter-bombers out? Give it a decent tank for it's size and allow it to decimate a supercarriers drones with bonuses that ONLY apply to killing drones, fighters and FB's . Not only would you give the sub-cap fleets a chance at taking down SC's, you would also give a boost to the lagging destroyer whose only real role in null sec atm is as an interdictor. The only other viable option is a boost to the dread which also needs to happen.
this is actually one of the best ideas out of the thread, that and the one about reducing titan and sc jumprange and the materials needed to jump, but your are definetly on to something here m8
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Andrejs L
Caldari Constantine.
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Posted - 2011.08.29 07:54:00 -
[218]
create a peniz shaped ship
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SunburnedFrog
Caldari Capital Systems INC Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.08.29 08:02:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Andrejs L create a peniz shaped ship
thorax not good enough
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Thorian Baalnorn
Caldari Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas.
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Posted - 2011.08.29 17:14:00 -
[220]
Edited by: Thorian Baalnorn on 29/08/2011 17:19:45
Originally by: SunburnedFrog
Originally by: Andrejs L create a peniz shaped ship
thorax not good enough
Try the Iteron V it kind of looks like a pistol grip dil.... dough
...... with ribs for extra pleasure maneuverability .
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Centra Spike
Caldari Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.29 18:59:00 -
[221]
I already posted the solution:
INSTANCED PVP Please re-size your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Sephiroth CloneIIV
Gallente Rim Worlds Republic Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.08.29 20:26:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Centra Spike I already posted the solution:
INSTANCED PVP
Wut this is sandbox. If you want instanced pvp with small even numbers go to wot or black propocy. or within this game get out of the sov and focus on holding a npc station, or wormhole which seems to be where people go for the no local.
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Cpt Tunguska
Minmatar In for the Kill Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
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Posted - 2011.08.29 20:50:00 -
[223]
Originally by: Centra Spike I already posted the solution:
INSTANCED PVP
Na....we dont really need instances, if the nerf will be done properly Rumors say titans will lose their DD completly....and supercapitals in general will recieve a huge hp reduction This would actually solve the issue.
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Headerman
Minmatar Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.08.29 22:03:00 -
[224]
Well the latest changes to the SCs are up ont he test server.
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Narisa Bithon
Caldari The Motley Crew Reborn Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2011.08.29 22:30:00 -
[225]
Originally by: White Tree DEATH TO SUPERCAPS.
DEATH TO TITANS.
+1 to this ieda
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m3rb3aSt
Minmatar Advanced Component Research Enterprise Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.30 02:18:00 -
[226]
Edited by: m3rb3aSt on 30/08/2011 02:19:06 Having random limitations is the dumbest **** ever. How about we just nerf the stupid ships.
The reason that battleship fleets should be superior is that they allow anyone to have a chance. It would easy to move into 0.0 when all you mostly need is a battleship fleet and some capital and sub BS support. It would also help out the new guys. I'm sure a lot of empire corps could field a fleet of 400 battleships. Now if those battleships counter supercapitals then guess who can gain some nice 0.0 space :3
The only people who are against a nerf and are the most vocal are the people who are using supercaps. Luckily CCP can see through all of the bull****.
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nMeh
Caldari North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.30 04:53:00 -
[227]
One Supercap at 15bil isk/500 USD is equivalent to 150 battleships in cost just for the ship (not to mention character cost). However one supercap can easily die to 30 battleships. If anything supercaps need a MASSIVE boost to be cost effective.
If Supers are all powerful -- Fight a PL subcap fleet with only your supercap fleet. We will see who wins.
Just like in hon where all PL non eurotz players have mmr above 1950+, we also tend to only win in EVE. If we lose its because Jogyn was the puppetmaster instead of BH at the time. There is a reason why Jogyn has never broke 1900 mmr while BH has invented everything in EVE.
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Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.30 05:00:00 -
[228]
Originally by: m3rb3aSt Edited by: m3rb3aSt on 30/08/2011 02:19:06 Having random limitations is the dumbest **** ever. How about we just nerf the stupid ships.
The reason that battleship fleets should be superior is that they allow anyone to have a chance. It would easy to move into 0.0 when all you mostly need is a battleship fleet and some capital and sub BS support. It would also help out the new guys. I'm sure a lot of empire corps could field a fleet of 400 battleships. Now if those battleships counter supercapitals then guess who can gain some nice 0.0 space :3
The only people who are against a nerf and are the most vocal are the people who are using supercaps. Luckily CCP can see through all of the bull****.
This is a good idea at heart, for a game with several million subscribers.
Unfortunately EVE has like, 350k if we're lucky, and most of those have been playing for years.
So if all you need in 0.0 is a BS, then all your old vets have NOTHING to train for and they quit, taking 2 or 3 accounts with them, and the game dies.
Supercaps were put in so that people who have been playing for years have something super skill intensive to train for, and that long grinding train has a reward at the end, a super bad ass space ship.
So its either you keep the guys who've been playing and paying for 5+ years, or you keep the scrub crowd that burns out and unsubs after 8 months.
Luckily, CCP thinks with their wallet.
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Centra Spike
Caldari Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.30 05:08:00 -
[229]
Originally by: m3rb3aSt
The only people who are against a nerf and are the most vocal are the people who are using supercaps. Luckily CCP can see through all of the bull****.
The only people who are for a nerf and are the most vocal are the people who are using massive blobs of subcaps and are unwilling to commit their supercaps, even after they win the subcap fight.
But I guess if you killed a bunch of unsupported supers within the current game mechanics your would have nothing to whine about. Please re-size your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Viribus
Gallente Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
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Posted - 2011.08.30 05:36:00 -
[230]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: m3rb3aSt Edited by: m3rb3aSt on 30/08/2011 02:19:06 Having random limitations is the dumbest **** ever. How about we just nerf the stupid ships.
The reason that battleship fleets should be superior is that they allow anyone to have a chance. It would easy to move into 0.0 when all you mostly need is a battleship fleet and some capital and sub BS support. It would also help out the new guys. I'm sure a lot of empire corps could field a fleet of 400 battleships. Now if those battleships counter supercapitals then guess who can gain some nice 0.0 space :3
The only people who are against a nerf and are the most vocal are the people who are using supercaps. Luckily CCP can see through all of the bull****.
This is a good idea at heart, for a game with several million subscribers.
Unfortunately EVE has like, 350k if we're lucky, and most of those have been playing for years.
So if all you need in 0.0 is a BS, then all your old vets have NOTHING to train for and they quit, taking 2 or 3 accounts with them, and the game dies.
Supercaps were put in so that people who have been playing for years have something super skill intensive to train for, and that long grinding train has a reward at the end, a super bad ass space ship.
So its either you keep the guys who've been playing and paying for 5+ years, or you keep the scrub crowd that burns out and unsubs after 8 months.
Luckily, CCP thinks with their wallet.
Makes perfect sense, after all everyone flies supers on their main
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Thorian Baalnorn
Caldari Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas.
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Posted - 2011.08.30 06:29:00 -
[231]
Originally by: nMeh One Supercap at 15bil isk/500 USD is equivalent to 150 battleships in cost just for the ship (not to mention character cost). However one supercap can easily die to 30 battleships. If anything supercaps need a MASSIVE boost to be cost effective.........
Performance does not scale to cost in video games. In every game i have played including this one their have been diminishing returns on performance.
Take any mods that have officer variants. T1 may cost 50k isk, T2 may give a 10% performance boost and cost 1 mil isk, and officer may give a 10% performance boost over T2 and cost 2 BIL isk. You want performance to scale to cost( which doesnt work in a free market system anyway) which is ridiculously absurd.
This goes for real life merchandise as well. I have an i7 quad core, I can buy an i7 quad core extreme for twice as much money but i dont get twice the performance.
Scarriers are ridiculously overpowered( see my above post with all the "*") when they are group together. CCP never intended people to fly 200 Scrarriers in one group and pulverize everything.
Quote: This is a good idea at heart, for a game with several million subscribers. Unfortunately EVE has like, 350k if we're lucky, and most of those have been playing for years. So if all you need in 0.0 is a BS, then all your old vets have NOTHING to train for and they quit, taking 2 or 3 accounts with them, and the game dies........
You shouldnt be able to dominate all of 0.0 at your whim with one class of ship either. Who is going to fight a lopsided fight constantly( again see my post a few post up about Scarriers). I know for a fact that what the napfest are doing is the downward spiral to a games demise. Been there done that. People find something that is overpowered in a large group then blob it until they pretty much run the whole server. Everyone else who is somewhat trying to play the game like they arent trying to win a MMO get tired of it and quit. Some join the blob. The server population continues to decline until even the blobbers find a different game. Game is gone. Rinse and repeat.
On the other hand you have valid point. You shouldn't be able to take over eve in 10 battleships either. But that isnt an issue is it? No the issue is taking over eve in 200-300-400-500-600 supers that have ZERO vulnerability in a decent size group. Again i will direct you to my post above. NO other ship in a group of 200 comes even close to be as powerful not even titans. Because titans dont put out 8k dps steadily while making infinite cap out of thin air while spider tanking >600k DPS. I mean seriously you cant get any closer to god mode in this game unless your a GM in a GM ship.
If i bring 300 BS to fight 200 Scarriers i should be able to get at least one Scarrier kill before those scarriers wipe out the entire fleet. 300 BS pushing 1000 DPS each wont even break a spider tank on 200 scarriers. In fact 50 of those could go home and your still more than safe.
To break a coordinated spider tank on 200 Scrarriers you would need 600 BS at 1000 DPS at least. And as soon as you lose a few you have 0 chance of breaking that tank and thats not going to take long with >2500 drones/fighters swarming the BSes.
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Centra Spike
Caldari Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.30 07:16:00 -
[232]
How many 200+ supercapital fleets have you been in?
Probably none since your alliance just ordered all supercapitals move to lowsec and stay logged off. Please re-size your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Captain Thunk
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.30 12:53:00 -
[233]
Ahhh, I have fond memories of the beginning of the SupercapWarz.
The likes of Atlas. proudly reminding people of the sheer volume of capitals they could field at one time. They began to do the same with Supercaps, but unfortunately corruption at the top slowed the necessary progress so when it came to the crunch their enemies had more supercaps. To resolve this they went to low sec, logged off and have been crying ever since about how overpowered supercaps are.
It is truly delightful to see people complain this way when at one time they had envisioned themselves as king of the hill and had no problem with it.
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Cpt Tunguska
Minmatar In for the Kill Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
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Posted - 2011.08.30 12:56:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Centra Spike How many 200+ supercapital fleets have you been in?
Probably none since your alliance just ordered all supercapitals move to lowsec and stay logged off.
This makes perfect sense. If you cant counter the epic hostile supercapblob in numbers, you cant, in fact, use your own supercaps. It would just cause the loss of all your own supers for nothing in return. Supercaps are so terribly designed that there arent any smart moves or hard decisions which can turn a fight, if outnumbered. Its all about who got the biggest supercap blob and most DDs/time.
Thats exactly what we se. We have the napblob supercap elite pvp group owning everything, while the rest of eve is forced to logoff and see everything burning.
Also keep in mind that capital ships are very mobile. So for instance if youre just fighting a small fraction af the hostile superblob.....Even then you cant use your supers, cause within short time all other superblob entities will also form fleets and drop into the fight via cyno. Just as example: Even if evoke is doing something with 20ish supers in Delve, you cant attack it with your own supers, even if you got 40 ready. Cause what will almost surely happen is that russians, raiden, NCdot etc. supers will also drop in every decent fight. They are just 2 regions away. Even pl in the north could be moving a fleet with like 5-6 Midcynos. A decent fight will last hours, so they got all time the need to move a couple of cynos. A decent super napblob can literally scare whole evemap into logoff, cause they can move everywhere in-time.
Battleships and other support ships are very different from that stupid supercap mechanic. They cant be moved that fast around via cyno and even if youre outnumbered....there are plenty of moves, tactics and decisions possible to negate a possible number disadvantage. In a subcapital (capital) fight everything is possible. Bombers, logis, Ab sigtanking, sniping, mid range sniping,close range, drakesdpamming, MWD kiting, tenguing....etc. Theres alot of rock, paper, scissors involved.... and clever fleetmovement, probing and warpins will decide every fight.
Supercaps would just be cynoed on grid and would melt everythign with DDs/etc. 250 km around, while they are mostly invulnerable themselves. Alot of ppl (mostly in npc space ) looking forward to this supercapnerf. If nothing will happen, eve would go down the drain. You end up having one huge blob group and rest of the server would either join them or just quit. Nothing interesting would happen anymore. I mean right now just 2 coalitions were left. 1 coalition is unable to do anything vs. the superspam. Within a year 0.0 space turned into a very boring enviroment, where just 1 entity is viable. Before the Dominion supercapbuff we had like 6+ viable coalition on map. This Dominion supercapblob is like a swarm of locusts, eating everything and turning everything behind them into dead, barren land. And no one can ever stop them.
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Master Zeuth
Gallente Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.30 13:39:00 -
[235]
tl;dr
Mad alliances with huge blobs of poor, low SP pilots getting mad at the alliances with small blobs of wealthy, high SP pilots who have supers.
If you think supers are so OP, get some of your own.
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Cpt Tunguska
Minmatar In for the Kill Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
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Posted - 2011.08.30 13:48:00 -
[236]
Originally by: Master Zeuth tl;dr
Mad alliances with huge blobs of poor, low SP pilots getting mad at the alliances with small blobs of wealthy, high SP pilots who have supers.
Read it again.
And: Its always funny if a member o the biggest blob group ever had ever seen is complaining about blobs. In fact, pl shouldnt even talk about blobbing anymore, it lets you all look dumb.
Quote: If you think supers are so OP, get some of your own
I got a Nyx. Well I guess I could also join one of the stupid super blob allies like pl, raiden or ncdot, but contrary to you I see how this ****s up eve.
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Centra Spike
Caldari Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.30 15:46:00 -
[237]
Confirming that PL will spend 40 billion ISK in fuel to move our entire capital fleet 5-6 mids to drop on someone's subcap ~goodfight~ because we're evil and abuse current mechanics.
There is a perfectly good mechanic in game to prevent supers/capital usage, it's called a cyno jammer. There were a lot of these things, you could even have your own supers/capitals IN system to protect them and we would be forced to go in with subcaps. But apparently your supers/capitals + 500 man subcap fleets can't stand up to ~elite pvp~.
Stop crying because you and your friends are bad at this game. Please re-size your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Cpt Tunguska
Minmatar In for the Kill Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
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Posted - 2011.08.30 16:12:00 -
[238]
Originally by: Centra Spike Confirming that PL will spend 40 billion ISK in fuel to move our entire capital fleet 5-6 mids to drop on someone's subcap ~goodfight~ because we're evil and abuse current mechanics
.
I wrote about supercap engagements, and you would travel any distance to gank some supers. In fact you already did in the past. Just remember the MC Hel you wtfganked down south as you were basing up north. Guess you got intel that sorry MC had an OP planned and you rolled in...no matter what distance. You see, I have a point. Thats just what came in my mind, I guess there are more example.
And be honest: If there WOULD be a supercapital engagement in the south, YOU WOULD also come down with your blob.
Quote: There is a perfectly good mechanic in game to prevent supers/capital usage, it's called a cyno jammer. There were a lot of these things, you could even have your own supers/capitals IN system to protect them and we would be forced to go in with subcaps. But apparently your supers/capitals + 500 man subcap fleets can't stand up to ~elite pvp~.
Na, this is pure bs. You cant defend jammers all the time over different timezones. A quick formup of 100 DMG battleships and logis...a titanportal....and any jammer will melt in like 5 minutes. Theres no chance, even for a quick response force. And once the jammer is down the supers will jump in and camp the system until sov is switched. Cynojammers are not what they once were. Cynojammer Pos' were decent in old times of sniping BS-fleets, before the rise of logistic ships, but now they are to easy to break.
Russians+blob do this all the time. Up north, vs. Atlas and vs. AAA. And also consider theres no possibility to get own caps/supers under the jammer, due to the jb nerf. Except its down, and then its too late. If you have alot stns to defend, youre lost from the beginning.
Just goons had succes with this due to pl beeing terrible. You focused alot on just one system, giving the goonies the option to amass everything they got in this single system. And tbh, over the months of coorperation with the russians you lost any ability to plan own, succesful operations. If you ever intended to break the goons, you should have asked the russians to support you. They would have shown you how easy it is to bypass jammers.
Quote: Stop crying because you and your friends are bad at this game.
Confirmed, I'm terrible. I just got 10ooo pvp kills and 700 kills with my supercarrier. I clearly lack expierience. But hey at least we didnt lose 14 Titans to frekking NC withing a week.
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Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.30 16:36:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
If i bring 300 BS to fight 200 Scarriers i should be able to get at least one Scarrier kill before those scarriers wipe out the entire fleet. 300 BS pushing 1000 DPS each wont even break a spider tank on 200 scarriers. In fact 50 of those could go home and your still more than safe.
To break a coordinated spider tank on 200 Scrarriers you would need 600 BS at 1000 DPS at least. And as soon as you lose a few you have 0 chance of breaking that tank and thats not going to take long with >2500 drones/fighters swarming the BSes.
All this happens in a perfect world
And a perfect world would allow all of those Sueprs to stay close enough together for your math to work.
Unfortunately this is EVE, and supers have a tendency to bounce, hard, and far, at HUGE ridiculous speeds that make a vagabond jealous. So if you brought 200 BS, and actually had the balls to engage the super blob you're so scared of, you WOULD in fact be able to kill one with simple patience and watching for that dummy in the Nyx who bumps.
Also stop replying to the Scotty Puff nerd, he's obviously butthurt that at some point or other PL has removed him from his home, and he's going to bitter post about a standings list he has no information about and whine and ***** because his alliance is poor.
NO BIG DEAL.
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Cpt Tunguska
Minmatar In for the Kill Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
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Posted - 2011.08.30 16:45:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Also stop replying to the Scotty Puff nerd, he's obviously butthurt that at some point or other PL has removed him from his home, and he's going to bitter post about a standings list he has no information about and whine and ***** because his alliance is poor.
NO BIG DEAL.
mad
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Jovian Strain
Caldari Assisted Genocide Unprovoked Aggression
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Posted - 2011.08.30 17:12:00 -
[241]
I think supers should not be able to touch subcaps. In the real world, large ships always had escorts to protect them from smaller more mobile threats like submarines or torpedo bombers.
Thus, a subcapital fight should be won prior to use of supers and the supers shouldn't decide the outcome of these subcap fights. Supers should be good are murdering other supers and sov grinding, not subcaps targets. In the end, within reason, skills should be able to overcome capital heavy fleet (even if the supercaps manage to get away).
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Centra Spike
Caldari Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.30 18:26:00 -
[242]
~IN THE REAL WORLD~ Please re-size your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
ShogunChaosMK2
Amarr Ixion Defence Systems Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.08.30 20:10:00 -
[243]
Make bombers have an ECM bomb ( much like procussion bombs) that can jam supers
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Feligast
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.30 20:26:00 -
[244]
Originally by: ShogunChaosMK2 Make bombers have an ECM bomb ( much like procussion bombs) that can jam supers drone bandwidth, severing their connection to the SC until scooped.
What do you think of that change?
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Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.30 20:27:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Jovian Strain I think supers should not be able to touch subcaps.
Fair enough, I think if supers can't touch sub caps, a fair trade is that subcaps can't touch supers either.
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Feligast
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.30 20:36:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Jovian Strain I think supers should not be able to touch subcaps.
Fair enough, I think if supers can't touch sub caps, a fair trade is that subcaps can't touch supers either.
v0v Would be only fair. Care to negotiate whether supers can hit structures?
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Metal Dude
Gallente Destructive Influence Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.08.30 20:45:00 -
[247]
Originally by: Suitonia
There is nothing more hilarious than Metal Dude whining about blobs and napfests while being in the alliance with the current biggest napfest and blob in the game.
Hey moron, I was *****ing about blobs for 5 fkn years. When I was on the receiving end of the blob, you tools kept saying "get more friends". Now that the shoe is on the other foot, you whine "You have the biggest napfest". Sounds to me that you have a problem with blobs or with supers only when it's you on the receiving end, but when you benefit from it, it's fkn OK. I, on the other hand never liked or stopped complaining about the blob regardless of the side I'm on.
Eliminate alliances and standings, limit corps to 500 and lets have 500 vs 500 titans duke it out. That kind of a fight would be awesome and what this game should be about, not 2000 noobs packed in to a laged system where whomever is in system or loads grid first wins.
The truth will set you free
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Dragon Outlaw
Gallente BOAE INC BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.08.30 20:53:00 -
[248]
I think CCP should just reset Eve. Every characters restarts in an NPC corp at 0 skillpoints with just a noob ship and a noob turret. All sovs in 0.0 dropped and free for the taking. All player built stations gone...and so on...
YEP! Just think about it...
...wait a minute guys...the phone is ringing...oh its CCP!..yes...han-han...yeah......hmmm.....excellent!....next patch?......cool!!
Done deal guys...they liked the idea!!
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Shamad Conde
Gallente Destructive Influence Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.08.30 23:14:00 -
[249]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Jovian Strain I think supers should not be able to touch subcaps.
Fair enough, I think if supers can't touch sub caps, a fair trade is that subcaps can't touch supers either.
SubCaps should not be able to touch SuperCaps or Deployable Structures.
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boliano
Caldari Fallen Angel's White Noise.
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Posted - 2011.08.30 23:38:00 -
[250]
Originally by: Viribus y the only people in this thred defedning stupidcaps r the dudes hu hav a bunch of them
scrubs afraid of figthing in REAL SHIPS cant even 1v1 like REAL pvpers
cant wait 4 nerf pathetic legion shud change name to 'coloncrucified hurt feelings alliance' ahed of time
Well before supercaps i think PL did quite well at destroying much larger fleets then there own, When they were the ones fighting against blobs and winning. Now that they have alot of titans and supers no one likes them for blobbing. But other entitys did this also and they were the blobs. So basicly if ur not part of the blob or have been ravaged by them, ur gonna cry, same old eve.
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0August0
Gallente Gooch Unlimited
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Posted - 2011.08.30 23:40:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Dragon Outlaw I think CCP should just reset Eve. Every characters restarts in an NPC corp at 0 skillpoints with just a noob ship and a noob turret. All sovs in 0.0 dropped and free for the taking. All player built stations gone...and so on...
YEP! Just think about it...
...wait a minute guys...the phone is ringing...oh its CCP!..yes...han-han...yeah......hmmm.....excellent!....next patch?......cool!!
Done deal guys...they liked the idea!!
The shock waves from all the nerd heads exploding would be measurable on the Richter scale. Regards, August |
Sephiroth CloneIIV
Gallente Rim Worlds Republic Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.08.30 23:49:00 -
[252]
Edited by: Sephiroth CloneIIV on 30/08/2011 23:52:20
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Jovian Strain I think supers should not be able to touch subcaps.
Fair enough, I think if supers can't touch sub caps, a fair trade is that subcaps can't touch supers either.
While im for a nerf to not be overpowered. Still, a cap ship/s should exist that are better for hitting subcaps then the rest, or are at-least able to. With dreads missing stationary targets at times, and caps only able to hit other caps what purpose do they serve other then hitting structures and other caps?
You have one class of ships require much more skills then the rest, and cost allot more, and they can only be used against themselves but other ships can be brought to bear against them but not the other way?
If we going real world examples, big ship guns while mabey having trouble hiting small targets with big guns, that's what interceptors are for (Those big ship sized drones called fighters).
cap ships (or armaments) specialized for fighting caps/strucutes, and others for subcaps. Vise versia for subcaps. (stealth bombers, and maybe new ship). Have good old rock paper scissors.
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Headerman
Minmatar Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.08.31 01:07:00 -
[253]
I like it on how Eve news 24 there is a big article about how GSF and Co. used 200 rifters to put a titan into structure, and then polished off a Nyx.
Then the next article is about how OP SCs are.
Seriously? 10 billion isk or less in ships is able to kill over 100 billion isk in ships, and people are saying SCs are OP?
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Alden Bazaar
Amarr Krannon of Sherwood Carthage Empires
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Posted - 2011.08.31 01:21:00 -
[254]
The only obvious answer is to release the Jove. Let them destroy all the titans and supercaps. |
Thorian Baalnorn
Caldari Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas.
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Posted - 2011.08.31 03:28:00 -
[255]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
If i bring 300 BS to fight 200 Scarriers i should be able to get at least one Scarrier kill before those scarriers wipe out the entire fleet. 300 BS pushing 1000 DPS each wont even break a spider tank on 200 scarriers. In fact 50 of those could go home and your still more than safe.
To break a coordinated spider tank on 200 Scrarriers you would need 600 BS at 1000 DPS at least. And as soon as you lose a few you have 0 chance of breaking that tank and thats not going to take long with >2500 drones/fighters swarming the BSes.
All this happens in a perfect world
And a perfect world would allow all of those Sueprs to stay close enough together for your math to work.
Unfortunately this is EVE, and supers have a tendency to bounce, hard, and far, at HUGE ridiculous speeds that make a vagabond jealous. So if you brought 200 BS, and actually had the balls to engage the super blob you're so scared of, you WOULD in fact be able to kill one with simple patience and watching for that dummy in the Nyx who bumps.
Also stop replying to the Scotty Puff nerd, he's obviously butthurt that at some point or other PL has removed him from his home, and he's going to bitter post about a standings list he has no information about and whine and ***** because his alliance is poor.
NO BIG DEAL.
Your still missing circumventing the point. It doesnt matter if you got 200 or 100 or 50. As long as you got the biggest blob of supers no one else can counter you. Other ships can be countered with other ship types. AHac fleets, drake army, alpha fleet, sniper fleet, normal capital fleet,etc can all be countered with other ships types some more effectively than others. But with supers their are no counters but more supers or an insane number of normal ships.
This argument doesnt even matter. From what i hear CCP is already nerfing supers. The only way which current supers would be viable for the long term health of this game is:
a) if they were cheaper and easier to skill so more people could own one faster. b) If they were limited in range from a home base say 15-20 LY and only being able to switch base locations say once a month( non stackable uses so you cant save up like 6 during summer and then go campaign with a blob of them). c) If they were limited in how many could be in system at once.
None of which are particularly a good idea to do. It is just better to knock them down a few notches and make them like they were , of limited use.
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Suitonia
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.08.31 06:59:00 -
[256]
Originally by: Metal Dude Edited by: Metal Dude on 30/08/2011 21:23:38
Originally by: Suitonia
There is nothing more hilarious than Metal Dude whining about blobs and napfests while being in the alliance with the current biggest napfest and blob in the game.
I was *****ing about blobs for 5 fkn years. When I was on the receiving end of the blob, you tools kept saying "get more friends". Now that the shoe is on the other foot, you whine "You have the biggest napfest". Sounds to me that you have a problem with blobs or with supers only when it's you on the receiving end, but when you benefit from it, it's fkn OK. I, on the other hand never liked or stopped complaining about the blob regardless of the side I'm on.
Eliminate alliances and standings, limit corps to 500 and lets have 500 vs 500 duke it out, Titans and all. That kind of a fight would be awesome and what this game should be about, not 2000 noobs packed in to a lagged system where whomever is in system or loads grid first wins.
I've hardly ever been involved in any large or medium scale gangs. I've never been part of any serious sovereignty stuff. I've pretty much done solo/small gang stuff for 99% of my time in eve, save from flying a Guardian in a dozen PL fleets (which by no means were large, and were against 400 drakes while having 100 ourselves). I've never benefited from having a large blob, nor have I ever been part of a super capital fleet nor have I benefited from any actions from a super capital fleet, neither has my corporation or alliance.
Perhaps you saw my Alliance Ticker and thought I was in the hydra that died 3 years ago and your bitter rage took over?
I see you raging about blobs and how CCP should turn this sandbox game upside down and make it fixed 500 man corps (which totally wouldn't ever mean corporations just not shooting eachother) and/or some crazy instanced PvP. (The alliance tournament fills that niche pretty well and you didn't seem to do that well in this one).
Its a sandbox game. Your coalition owns almost 75% of the map, and has the means to take almost the rest of it. The game is in your hands, you could reset eachother right now and have some super awesome PvP that you described. Instead, you will blame CCP that you have the biggest naplist in EvE, and that the game isn't fun because you won't do anything about it.
The very same thing you criticized, flamed and smacked the NC about, when they didn't reset eachother during the "Jabber Crew" ERA when the original BoB/KenZoKu died. ---
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ScheenK
Gallente Constantine.
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Posted - 2011.08.31 09:04:00 -
[257]
The real way to solve this whole issue, is for the original bob corps, bnc, rkk, evol, ffleet, dice, to band back together under one name, no scrub corps like they did with IT, and have the original fc's back in there as well, and this game will go back to normal
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Zey Nadar
Gallente Unknown Soldiers B O R G
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Posted - 2011.08.31 09:59:00 -
[258]
The problem is obvious, the number of pilots who can fly and and own a supercap has been steadily increasing. Supercaps were fine as long as there were only a few of them in the battle. Now that the size of supercap fleets rivals subcap fleets, its obvious that CCP didn't plan enough for this eventuality, even though its been obvious for a long while.
Imo CCP should remove the chance of character selling and trading, so at least some supercap pilots would leave the game as those players stop playing. Doesn't do enough but at least its something.
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Drift Spec
Minmatar Spricer Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.08.31 10:45:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Zey Nadar so at least some supercap pilots would leave the game ...
Thats exacly what ccp is gonna do .
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White Tree
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Posted - 2011.08.31 11:39:00 -
[260]
Edited by: White Tree on 31/08/2011 11:40:03
Re: Supercap nerf bloobloobloo
http://i.imgur.com/lpH2w.gif
Image changed to URL. Zymurgist _______________________________________
Follow me on Twitter! |
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Neurotica
Gallente Black Lotus Heavy Industries Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2011.08.31 12:33:00 -
[261]
Edited by: Neurotica on 31/08/2011 12:35:03
Originally by: Zey Nadar The problem is obvious, the number of pilots who can fly and and own a supercap has been steadily increasing. Supercaps were fine as long as there were only a few of them in the battle. Now that the size of supercap fleets rivals subcap fleets, its obvious that CCP didn't plan enough for this eventuality, even though its been obvious for a long while.
Agree.
Also note guyz limiting corp numbers and blue count, will only need a NAP list on paper rather than ingame, and wont change a thing.
If you use some real life comparisons, fleets didn't comprise of spams of carriers, dreadnoughts etc..
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Alghara
Amarr Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.31 14:04:00 -
[262]
Edited by: Alghara on 31/08/2011 14:05:54 Edited by: Alghara on 31/08/2011 14:04:50 Titan : Decrease the tracking of the guns (you can't hit some sub cap with this guns). Decrease the HP.
Mothership : Only one fighter bomber/ carrier level (Increase the resistance and DPS of this fighter) (lag problem). Fighter bay (fighter / fighterbomber bay) same for all race can stock 10 fighter bomber max. Drone bay 500 m3 max 5 drone outside. Remove : remote ecm Remove : All capital module ( capital transfert, capital remote armor /shield). fighter bomber : Can hit sub cap. Decrease the HP.
Dread : Siege mode 5m / 50% strong then now . Increase by 25 % de damage done on titan and mother ( signature radius more then capital damage * 1.25).
Carrier : fine
Also About dread and titan. Now they are a lot of problem with some racial weapons:
Capital Torpedo : not enough HP. Smartbomb can destroy them. Capital laser and capital Hybrid : Problem with the capacity. The capacity to use this weapons most be in the ammo.
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MAJOR POPPAGE
Caldari Specter Syndicate Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.08.31 14:25:00 -
[263]
Whining detected! Call the waaahmbulace.
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Indeterminacy
Caldari THORN Syndicate BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.08.31 15:05:00 -
[264]
I would just like to say that I'm am quite enjoying the tears over the pending and long overdue SC nerf. I also love the unironic posting from these small, elite alliances with disproportionate numbers of supers who have formed the largest coalition ever know to eve.
It's really just, amazing.
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Centra Spike
Caldari Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.31 15:46:00 -
[265]
Originally by: Indeterminacy ...who have formed the largest coalition ever know to eve.
Pretty sure you were in the largest coalition ever assembled in Eve, until you got left to die in Geminate.
It's really just amazing. Please re-size your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Metal Dude
Gallente Destructive Influence Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.08.31 16:02:00 -
[266]
Originally by: Suitonia The game is in your hands, you could reset eachother right now and have some super awesome PvP that you described. Instead, you will blame CCP that you have the biggest naplist in EvE, and that the game isn't fun because you won't do anything about it.
If it was up to me, DICE would not even be in an alliance, but I'm just a grunt that don't make those decisions. ****, you think I like to be blue to people I love to smack with and be part of what I smack them about? But people will always adapt to the game mechanics, so it is up to CCP to encourage or discourage certain aspects of game play. You can't blame the players for adopting ffs. It's always the designers fault for allowing or encouraging broken mechanics, the main being huge NAPs. That's what you people should be *****ing about, but instead you whine about supers, which will not fix the problem, it will just cause even bigger blob of subcaps.
The truth will set you free
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Capricorn 0ne
Caldari Broski Federation Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.08.31 16:47:00 -
[267]
Edited by: Capricorn 0ne on 31/08/2011 16:50:00
Originally by: Metal Dude
Originally by: Suitonia The game is in your hands, you could reset eachother right now and have some super awesome PvP that you described. Instead, you will blame CCP that you have the biggest naplist in EvE, and that the game isn't fun because you won't do anything about it.
If it was up to me, DICE would not even be in an alliance, but I'm just a grunt that don't make those decisions. ****, you think I like to be blue to people I love to smack with and be part of what I smack them about? But people will always adapt to the game mechanics, so it is up to CCP to encourage or discourage certain aspects of game play. You can't blame the players for adopting ffs. It's always the designers fault for allowing or encouraging broken mechanics, the main being huge NAPs. That's what you people should be *****ing about, but instead you whine about supers, which will not fix the problem, it will just cause even bigger blob of subcaps.
IF it was up to me, BROSKI would not even be in an alliance, but I'm just a autistic guy that don't make those decisions. Banana, you think I like to be red to people I love to whack with and be part of what I what them about? But people will never adapt to the game mechanics, so it is up to Us to encourage or allow certain aspects of **** play.(if you made it this far trolled hard) You can't blame the game dev's for adopting ffs. It's always the players fault for alloing or encouraging broken mechanics, the main being huge has browns. That's hat you people should be happy about, but instead you whine about pancakes, which ill not fix the hunger, it will just cause even bigger stack of hash browns.
:3
What happened borg alliance?
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Thorian Baalnorn
Caldari Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas.
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Posted - 2011.08.31 20:11:00 -
[268]
Edited by: Thorian Baalnorn on 31/08/2011 20:11:19
Originally by: Metal Dude
Originally by: Suitonia The game is in your hands, you could reset eachother right now and have some super awesome PvP that you described. Instead, you will blame CCP that you have the biggest naplist in EvE, and that the game isn't fun because you won't do anything about it.
If it was up to me, DICE would not even be in an alliance, but I'm just a grunt that don't make those decisions. ****, you think I like to be blue to people I love to smack with and be part of what I smack them about? But people will always adapt to the game mechanics, so it is up to CCP to encourage or discourage certain aspects of game play. You can't blame the players for adopting ffs. It's always the designers fault for allowing or encouraging broken mechanics, the main being huge NAPs. That's what you people should be *****ing about, but instead you whine about supers, which will not fix the problem, it will just cause even bigger blob of subcaps.
Supers are only part of the problem. I agree. All of sov 0.0 warfare has gotten rather boring and tedious even without supers and blobs. The whole 0.0 sov system needs a complete rework. Alliances should have a difficult time holding 3-5 regions of space. Especially when they may only use 30-40 systems besides site scanning and moon mining. Racketeering (having renters or pets) should be discouraged, so more independent alliances big and small live in sov 0.0. Smaller alliances should be able to defend themselves fairly well if they concentrate their efforts on an amount of systems relative to their size. Napfest should be discouraged at every possible turn. It should not be extremely beneficial to have friends that band and form napfest. It should not be needed for survivability either because napfest are always a result of the want to conquer a more powerful enemy or to defend against a more powerful enemy...or in the current political situation...to win eve.
The whole system is being reworked right now. Their have been blogs on the goals and threads posted by Greyscale in FID on various possible changes. Getting rid of Supers current ability is just the first and most needed step. At least with supers knocked down a notch we can play normal crappy sov warfare.
[sarcasm] Who's up for a few hours of structure pew pew? I know im excited![/sarcasm]
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Morris Falter
Caldari The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.08.31 21:10:00 -
[269]
Super caps: They're just really, really, really, really dull.
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Morris Falter
Caldari The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.08.31 21:13:00 -
[270]
..and remove max locked target nerf on dreads in siege. No wonder no one mentioned this, not like anyone flies dreads any more.
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Crellion
Gallente Parental Control Merciless.
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Posted - 2011.09.01 09:47:00 -
[271]
SUPERCAP FIX
Step 1: Super carrier and Titan Role Penalty: Lockable and destroyable energy hub module: Same hp and resists as the ship itself, if destroyed ship goes kaboom (or even more interesting high yield options).
Step 2: S class weapon systems and bombers do 10xDPS on the hub module, i.e. 1x 6 month old pvp char in a Taranis does 3000+ DPS on your super.
/me whistles away merrily...
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
iwannabeahippy
Caldari SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2011.09.01 10:20:00 -
[272]
Edited by: iwannabeahippy on 01/09/2011 10:20:20 Step one: Implement massive supercapital changes Step two: Cringe at outcry and unsubscribers Step three: Offer all characters 'One time special offer SP reset' Step four: Seed NPC buy orders for supercapitals to alleviate isk losses from changes and reset. Step five: Feel good about selves as almost all of eve spends 6-9 months with new skillsets and retraining stuff they forgot to update whilst you attempt to make a legitimate overhaul of supers.
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Bailian Moxtain
Caldari NibbleTek Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.09.01 12:36:00 -
[273]
dont nerf supercaps, what are we gonna do now against the blobs we're facing! im mad n jelly
- made in Norway - |
Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.09.01 13:23:00 -
[274]
Edited by: Malcanis on 01/09/2011 13:23:19 I'm fine with supercaps being able to beat the crap out of capitals, but they should be close to useless vs subcaps, just as battleships are not efficient vs Frigates and Dreads don't have much to say to Cruisers.
Nerf the living hell out of Titan tracking (Reduce to ~25% better than a sieged dread)
Give the DD a 3250m explosion radius / 70m/s explosion velocity (not modifiable by skills) to put an end to the dreariness of mass-DD'ing logis and dictors (should still work OK vs HICs which is fair enough IMO). It's silly to take away the drone bay; a ship the size of a titan should have 500m^3 of drones.
Give motherships 25 Fighter Launch slots (+1 per Drone Control unit, I guess); it's up to the pilot whether they fill them with Fighters or Fighter-Bombers. And a 700m^3/250mbit standard drone bay.
Remove rig slots from supercaps; they're only ever used for Trimarks/CDFEs anyway, so there's no "customization" involved. The ridiculous EHP that supers have is a big part of the problem with them as it is, and effectively increasing it by 72% with the mandatory 3x T2 trimarks/cdfes just makes it worse.
This has been Malc's supercap rebalance
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
hauleringonline
Amarr Anormalii S.A. Vera Cruz Alliance
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Posted - 2011.09.01 13:45:00 -
[275]
Facing blobs bigger then u can imagine makes ppl cry in their corners cos they have not worked as hard or effective as the others do ... but i think nerfing sc`s is rather viable. titans are way expensive then a sc and very close @ dps ... so ppl fielding 255 sc fleet its now ordinary from top forces the others cant do **** also cos of the fighter/drone lag maybe think about that(also note that alot of ppl are scared to field the titans cos of big laggy fight) Other stuff that can make eve more fun could be : 1) adding a few new regions so ppl can have easier acces into 0.0( heard also that in drone regions drf are botting alot so they can replace they`re sc fleet instantly maybe ccp can look into that) 2) making a huge stationary defence thing some sort of battlestation that can deal with alot(ofc with high upkeep in resources and all maybe guarding the cynojammer pos or something) 3) introducing dreads t2 or/and carriers t2 so ppl cant whine indefineatly about sc`s beeing so overpowered 4) boosting moon value so various ppl can get acces to higher income that can lead to a bigger fleet to defend their space Not sure about others but i still dream of the day that i see jovian stuff(maybe thats one of the goals that keeps me playing) or some other new race of npc who can make more ppl interested in playing the game and not new set of clothes so ppl can facebook their pcitures while walking insisde a station ... Peace!
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DeDe hungry
Gallente Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.09.01 13:58:00 -
[276]
Edited by: DeDe hungry on 01/09/2011 13:58:20
Quote:
One Supercap at 15bil isk/500 USD is equivalent to 150 battleships in cost just for the ship (not to mention character cost). However one supercap can easily die to 30 battleships. If anything supercaps need a MASSIVE boost to be cost effective.
Is not one reason, Dude, you can kill battleship with well played frigate, if you train Super carrier it's YOUR objective, and the cost of Hull/char... Your problem.
Because the hull price of SC is 15B you need 15B ship for kill them? Oh wait... It's ridiculous. Mmmh with supercap you are invulnerable to warp scrambling/disruptor, and THIS is cost effective... subcap cant do anything versus Supercarrier if you don't have bubble, you know... Yes right clic Jump to... And leave the field (yep but energy neutra... ), warp out... cloak (yeah!), regen capa, and Right click Jump to or log-off (with 15mn CD), if you add the titan in the equation (for DD Interdictor/HIC) and bomber (for destroy some Bubble...)...
I love the idea about removing rig slot on supercap, or add, XLarge rig for them (Huge cost).
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.09.01 15:00:00 -
[277]
Originally by: DeDe hungry
I love the idea about removing rig slot on supercap, or add, XLarge rig for them (Huge cost).
No to XL rigs. The idea is to limit their EHP, not add a few hundred mill onto the cost of a ship which already costs tens of billions to buy and fit.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
hauleringonline
Amarr Anormalii S.A. Vera Cruz Alliance
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Posted - 2011.09.01 15:15:00 -
[278]
malcanis u want a massive nerf to titans and u compare them with dreads? do u realise the diffrence in training/getting skills for titan and dread? or if u cant afford bigger stuff no1 else should?
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zoltar pdp
Caldari WALLTREIPERS
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Posted - 2011.09.01 16:34:00 -
[279]
Easy fix: the biggest the ship, the longest the aggression timer, with titan aggression timer being ~3 hours and supercarrier ~2 hours. AND everytime you get bubbled/tackled, the timer resets. For ALL ships.
Currently there's not point on engaging a supercap fleet with a subcap fleet because if they see you have triple their numbers, they will just log off, probably losing only 2-3 considering the lag involved in big fights and the ridiculously massive hp of supers. I really like the removal of rigs proposal some posts ago, as they are only used to increase raw hp right now.
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.09.01 16:37:00 -
[280]
Originally by: hauleringonline malcanis u want a massive nerf to titans and u compare them with dreads? do u realise the diffrence in training/getting skills for titan and dread? or if u cant afford bigger stuff no1 else should?
Ah, so in a game where owning a single moon can make billions of ISK per week, you think cost alone is sufficient to balance ships? Should my faction fit Fleet Typhoon be effectively invulnerable to tackle by a few T1 Rifters? Supercaps should be vulnerable to subcap tackling, just as a tachypoc or artymael is vulnerable to a frigate.
Why should a Titan be efficient against ships 2 size classes smaller than it when no other ship type is? Every other ship class - no matter how expensive - can reasonably be countered with smaller class ships. Only supercaps are so effective vs smaller ships.
If supercaps were effective vs capitals but ineffective vs subcaps, they'd have an excellent and useful role: preventing EVE from returning to "Captial Ships Online". We would have a balanced ecosystem with subcap fleets, capital fleets and supercap fleets each having their role and their vulnerability. Unsupported supercaps would make short work of capitals, but be vulnerable to support fleets. Subcap-only fleets would be vulnerable to carrier-heavy fleets. Capital-heavy fleets would be vulnerable to supers.
We don't need additional ship classes, we don't need specialised "capital killers" (supercaps are already specialised capital killers), we just need a clearly defined role and weakness for each class.
At the moment, supercaps have no real weakness other than "the other guy might have even more supercaps" - which is the antithesis of balance.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
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Indeterminacy
Caldari THORN Syndicate BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.09.01 17:16:00 -
[281]
Originally by: Centra Spike
Originally by: Indeterminacy ...who have formed the largest coalition ever know to eve.
Pretty sure you were in the largest coalition ever assembled in Eve, until you got left to die in Geminate.
It's really just amazing.
Actually, we left Pure Blind of our own free will after fighting from Gem to Vale to Tribute. But since when do these kind of details matter? A quick scroll thru dot lan and some maths finds: 29515 members in the DRF coalition. Just sayin'
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Centra Spike
Caldari Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.09.01 19:12:00 -
[282]
Originally by: Indeterminacy
Originally by: Centra Spike
Originally by: Indeterminacy ...who have formed the largest coalition ever know to eve.
Pretty sure you were in the largest coalition ever assembled in Eve, until you got left to die in Geminate.
It's really just amazing.
Actually, we left Pure Blind of our own free will after fighting from Gem to Vale to Tribute. But since when do these kind of details matter? A quick scroll thru dot lan and some maths finds: 29515 members in the DRF coalition. Just sayin'
Which is half of what your ~coalition~ was. Just sayin'. Please re-size your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Feligast
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.09.01 19:44:00 -
[283]
Awww, look at the new NC being all defensive about numvers already. Isn't it fun turning into that which you professed to hate the most, Anti-Blue, Anti-Blob Coalition?
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Capricorn 0ne
Caldari Broski Federation Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.09.01 21:12:00 -
[284]
If you guys are going post stupid ideas let's at least make them so stupid that they are considered.
How about a ship half way between a dreadnought and a titan.
The JIHAD-NOUGHT. No guns or missiles or tank. It has the EHP of a battleship, its special ability is it has a 10 second self destruct timer and upon detonation it unleashes a AOE Doomsday. And upon detonation a system wide message of 'ALLAHU AKBAR'.
It's literally a win-win. And a new hull would offer some much needed redemption to the CCP ship design department after the sansha mothership (we know some parts of the game are crap but why make crap literally float around in space. If there were enough of those ships it would be like flying through a toilet bowl.)
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Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.09.01 21:26:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Malcanis
Why should a Titan be efficient against ships 2 size classes smaller than it when no other ship type is? Every other ship class - no matter how expensive - can reasonably be countered with smaller class ships. Only supercaps are so effective vs smaller ships.
I mean, i understand that you don't like supers, but telling outright lies is a bit ridiculous.
Battleships are actually fairly dangerous to frigates so I'm not sure what game you're playing, but if you tackle my Domi, or Tempest, or Geddon, or....well lets just say most, that your frigate is likely deeply and passionately screwed, or at the best case you burn your point out in about 1 minute and I warp off.
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kaltenp
Caldari The New Era C0NVICTED
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Posted - 2011.09.01 22:27:00 -
[286]
Nerf supers has some merit to me but what about fixing a ship class that atm in game has no use.
Destroyers
The only nerfs I would suggest to supers initially is 1. restrict sc to fighters and fighter bombers only 2. supers cant lock cruiser size and below targets 3. unsure how to do this but stop the ability for supers to kite damage till they log off(not sure on this one but does not seem right if your caught that you escape this way)
Destroyers: 1.Provide ability for cap killing module (torpedo, spinal weapon etc)and bonuses to weapon power not so that one destroyer can take a cap but a group of say 10 can do it in a reasonable time frame 2.reduced sig radius (in real life destroyer and frig sizes not that much difference)
My reasoning for these changes are (and they are just ideas so dont bother ranting there may well be issues with this still)is that in real life going back to the era of bs, cruisers and newly arrived air power a destroyer was a small fast hard to hit target, but still quite fragile, that could sink an aircraft carrier. I think that if you did this with the above nerfs for supers it would provide a tactical element to the game as people would have to be wary of jumping supers without good support but it would still leave supers with the role that they should have
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.09.02 06:52:00 -
[287]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Malcanis
Why should a Titan be efficient against ships 2 size classes smaller than it when no other ship type is? Every other ship class - no matter how expensive - can reasonably be countered with smaller class ships. Only supercaps are so effective vs smaller ships.
I mean, i understand that you don't like supers, but telling outright lies is a bit ridiculous.
Battleships are actually fairly dangerous to frigates so I'm not sure what game you're playing, but if you tackle my Domi, or Tempest, or Geddon, or....well lets just say most, that your frigate is likely deeply and passionately screwed, or at the best case you burn your point out in about 1 minute and I warp off.
OK, you Tach-fit fit your Abaddon, and me and say 4 other guys all in Rifters or Punishers will take you on and let's see how well that works out for you. I'm going to go with "not well".
That's a fairly good representation of the average super:sub numbers we see these days.
Yeah Domis: specialised drone boats. Not the best analogy for Titans which are turret based, don't you think? I mean seeing as we're being all honest?.
I was referring to the effectiveness of the Titan turrets, as you well know. They have way too good tracking. It's as if CCP had given all large long range turrets the same tracking as Medium Pulse Lasers. That would be awesome for the guys flying battleships, but horrible for everyone in anything smaller.
But hey, since they can get their own battleships, it would be "balanced", right?
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
hauleringonline
Amarr Anormalii S.A. Vera Cruz Alliance
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Posted - 2011.09.02 07:42:00 -
[288]
Malcanis ure ideas jst seem like comunist type ... i mean if u cant get soemthing greater others that got there should be blamed? And regarding realistic scenarios if i jettison my ammo from titan should kill ure frigate/cruiser instantly if u happen to be nearby ... or if i fire a shell and the used shell its landing on ure frigate should instantly set u on fire! True story!
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.09.02 08:40:00 -
[289]
Originally by: hauleringonline True story!
Indubitably, dear sir.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Shuriath
Caldari Assisted Genocide Unprovoked Aggression
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Posted - 2011.09.02 12:17:00 -
[290]
Originally by: Jovian Strain I think supers should not be able to touch subcaps. In the real world, large ships always had escorts to protect them from smaller more mobile threats like submarines or torpedo bombers.
Thus, a subcapital fight should be won prior to use of supers and the supers shouldn't decide the outcome of these subcap fights. Supers should be good are murdering other supers and sov grinding, not subcaps targets. In the end, within reason, skills should be able to overcome capital heavy fleet (even if the supercaps manage to get away).
+1 to this idea
Supers and titans should be used only to kill caps, and down the chain. titans 1 shotting cruiser sized ships is ridiculous remove DD altogether or revamp it again.
other than that i think its up to the individual alliances to decide if they think that having such a big conglomerate of supers is a benefit to the game. Sure you can steamroll eve and control the whole universe, but what will it achieve? people will leave the game and you will be bored. youll leave the game and the best mmo game will be finnished. the RMT will dry up because you wont have any customers and you will end up homeless because you have no income.......
I dont want to see SC get the nerf bat... how about some love for the SC... all you gotta do is hit the RESET button, no more blue blobs...
Who does get the income from the tech moons anyway? is it evenly distributed? is every person who is risking his SC in these fights got rights to the income? or is it held by the super elites?.... I mean, what better reason to reset
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Cpt Tunguska
Minmatar In for the Kill Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
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Posted - 2011.09.02 14:09:00 -
[291]
Edited by: Cpt Tunguska on 02/09/2011 14:14:32
Originally by: Centra Spike
Originally by: Indeterminacy
Originally by: Centra Spike
Originally by: Indeterminacy ...who have formed the largest coalition ever know to eve.
Pretty sure you were in the largest coalition ever assembled in Eve, until you got left to die in Geminate.
It's really just amazing.
Actually, we left Pure Blind of our own free will after fighting from Gem to Vale to Tribute. But since when do these kind of details matter? A quick scroll thru dot lan and some maths finds: 29515 members in the DRF coalition. Just sayin'
Which is half of what your ~coalition~ was. Just sayin'.
Its quite funny. I remember pl and NCdot crew hating ol' NC for creating a stagnant game enviroment. But srsly ....how stagnant is this what we currently have? Must be the most boring situation eve ever faced. They Killed NC for sake of good game, but created a supercapmonster which is, in fact ruining the whole thing. Just one viable coalition left so far....be proud of yourself!
pandemic legion: "In (super)blob we trust."
EDIT: I read @ evenews the nerf will hit Tranq in october. Just 1 month left .P Lets all hope this will be the end of 100+ supercarrier spams and dozens of Doomsday - parties every 10 mins.
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari draketrain
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Posted - 2011.09.03 09:26:00 -
[292]
titans and supercarriers dont need massive nerf.
only their weapons against subcaps need nerf i.e. tracking and dd damage against supcaps and fighter bomber damage against subcaps.
imho most important would be nerfing the frigging cynosural field instablob anywhere. it would affect caps more than fiddling with their minor stats. at least it would fix supercaps vs small gang warfare a lot. it doesn't matter how much ehp or damage they do if you can't bring them on field in instant.
i don't know how to fix instapopping pos's and stuff though. i really think increasing fuel and ammo costs and reducing jump range for capitals would nerf the logistics part making it more difficult to move them around though.
but even then you got every kind of pos exploits and crap for moving them. trololo.
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