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Zenith Intaki Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2011.09.05 08:04:00 - [1] CCP employees aren't calling the shots anymore. Investors are and that's the reason why EVE turned into massive crap pile. Also, that little tiny guy with the vision of the best scifi experience should be fired. We already had that, in form of Rev II.
P42ALPHA Gallente Epidemic. THE D0MINION	Posted - 2011.09.05 08:10:00 - [2] Originally by: Zenith Intaki CCP employees aren't calling the shots anymore. Investors are and that's the reason why EVE turned into massive crap pile. Also, that little tiny guy with the vision of the best scifi experience should be fired. We already had that, in form of Rev II. The second those Nvida guys, and Hilmar were up on stage showing off some crappy hand held version of what they could do with EVE, ya that is were the warning sings should have went off. What 2 months later, CCP says they are putting on the pads so they can launch a console game with sony. LAWL. But not much anyone can do. Enjoy what is left of the game. At worst, we can all play emo vampires, and cut our own virtual wrists...lol
Felix Decat	Posted - 2011.09.05 13:46:00 - [3] Those evil investors. . . Well if someone buys up a good chunk of a company, they get to start acting like they own a chunk of a company, thats what happens. However, is that even the case? Generally, even in the cases of private companies there are press releases when a group of investors sink a bunch of money into a company. CCP has been talking about Incarna for at least 5 years. The game direction isnt a new thing, it's the timeframe and execution has sucked ass.
Skippermonkey Tactical Knightmare	Posted - 2011.09.05 14:00:00 - [4] yah, i was at the fanfest where they were showing off the nVidea poop. WHERE ARE THE SPACESHIPS! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - EVE: TESTING GROUNDS FOR WoD & DUST SINCE 2011
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.09.05 15:57:00 - [5] Originally by: Zenith Intaki CCP employees aren't calling the shots anymore. Investors are and that's the reason why EVE turned into massive crap pile. Also, that little tiny guy with the vision of the best scifi experience should be fired. We already had that, in form of Rev II. Employees don't call shots. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Tokyo Rose	Posted - 2011.09.05 16:18:00 - [6] Also remember that the top ccp dogs are all very wealthy so even if all three projects go the way of the dodo then they are still all very wealthy. I imagine this has much to do with ccp's current direction. Why worry about taking risks with the company if there is no personal risk?
Abrazzar	Posted - 2011.09.05 16:28:00 - [7] Alright. Alright. I'll fix it. Now. EVERYBODY! Send me 100 bucks. With some 300k subscriptions that should yield enough cash to buy out the evil investors and give the power back to the players. Deal? P.S. I'll set up a paypal account for this once I get enough positive response. For now, just send me PLEXes. --------
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.09.05 16:35:00 - [8] Originally by: Tokyo Rose Also remember that the top ccp dogs are all very wealthy so even if all three projects go the way of the dodo then they are still all very wealthy. I imagine this has much to do with ccp's current direction. Why worry about taking risks with the company if there is no personal risk? The whole reason, the only reason, that people are mad at CCP is because they took a larger risk than continuing to develop EvE and EvE only. It is excellent to see that you paid money to complain about it, and even better that you used someone else's money (self admitted) to do so. Thank you for your contribution to this great game. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Ghoest	Posted - 2011.09.05 17:42:00 - [9] Originally by: Tokyo Rose Also remember that the top ccp dogs are all very wealthy so even if all three projects go the way of the dodo then they are still all very wealthy. I imagine this has much to do with ccp's current direction. Why worry about taking risks with the company if there is no personal risk? I wouldnt be too sure that anyone is Iceland is actually wealthy. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Ghoest	Posted - 2011.09.05 17:47:00 - [10] Originally by: Cipher Jones The whole reason, the only reason, that people are mad at CCP is because they took a larger risk than continuing to develop EvE and EvE only. No this is false people are "mad" due to 2 primary reasons. 1 No new "space ship" content has been added in almost 2 years and looks like none is on the way in the foreseeable future. 2 Some people resent various aspects of NEX. Many other companies continue to add popular content to their first game while developing a new game. CCP chose a different route and people are upset. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Jenshae Chiroptera	Posted - 2011.09.05 17:53:00 - [11] It is foolish to let investors dictate the direction of a company. They know how to spot good shares to buy and companies to finance. They aren't qualified or experienced in managing those companies. Greetings and salutations all who reside here. May your flames be warm and your trolls tasty.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.09.05 19:13:00 - [12] Originally by: Ghoest Originally by: Cipher Jones The whole reason, the only reason, that people are mad at CCP is because they took a larger risk than continuing to develop EvE and EvE only. No this is false people are "mad" due to 2 primary reasons. 1 No new "space ship" content has been added in almost 2 years and looks like none is on the way in the foreseeable future. 2 Some people resent various aspects of NEX. Many other companies continue to add popular content to their first game while developing a new game. CCP chose a different route and people are upset. All of which is a result of deciding to develop other games. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Stormhammer Investments	Posted - 2011.09.05 19:17:00 - [13] Wait until the guys at MD get a hold of this thread. It's ironic on so many levels. Also, yes, it was all my fault.
Tokyo Rose	Posted - 2011.09.05 19:47:00 - [14] Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: Tokyo Rose Also remember that the top ccp dogs are all very wealthy so even if all three projects go the way of the dodo then they are still all very wealthy. I imagine this has much to do with ccp's current direction. Why worry about taking risks with the company if there is no personal risk? The whole reason, the only reason, that people are mad at CCP is because they took a larger risk than continuing to develop EvE and EvE only. It is excellent to see that you paid money to complain about it, and even better that you used someone else's money (self admitted) to do so. Thank you for your contribution to this great game. No, thank the person who used his personal money to buy a plex that I bought with isk. I quit personally funding eve over a year ago. And before you say zomg you still paid for eve no i didn't. Players who buy plex to get isk are independent of players who use rl money to buy a subscription. The plex would have been bought regardless if I wanted to resub with isk or not. So ccp lost out on $14.95 because I used an isk bought plex instead of using my own rl money. Queue irrational rage about how I still paid rl money to ccp. Originally by: Ghoest Originally by: Tokyo Rose Also remember that the top ccp dogs are all very wealthy so even if all three projects go the way of the dodo then they are still all very wealthy. I imagine this has much to do with ccp's current direction. Why worry about taking risks with the company if there is no personal risk? I wouldnt be too sure that anyone is Iceland is actually wealthy. Anyone in iceland is most likely suffering heavily due to the financial crush. But the top ccp corporate officers? If you really think they are not making loads of money then just lol. This is the same for any business. Sure the company and especially the employees might not be making loads of cash but the top of the corp always makes a tidy profit. Lrn2capitalism.
Ranger 1 Amarr Ranger Corp	Posted - 2011.09.05 20:13:00 - [15] Originally by: Tokyo Rose Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: Tokyo Rose Also remember that the top ccp dogs are all very wealthy so even if all three projects go the way of the dodo then they are still all very wealthy. I imagine this has much to do with ccp's current direction. Why worry about taking risks with the company if there is no personal risk? The whole reason, the only reason, that people are mad at CCP is because they took a larger risk than continuing to develop EvE and EvE only. It is excellent to see that you paid money to complain about it, and even better that you used someone else's money (self admitted) to do so. Thank you for your contribution to this great game. No, thank the person who used his personal money to buy a plex that I bought with isk. I quit personally funding eve over a year ago. And before you say zomg you still paid for eve no i didn't. Players who buy plex to get isk are independent of players who use rl money to buy a subscription. The plex would have been bought regardless if I wanted to resub with isk or not. So ccp lost out on $14.95 because I used an isk bought plex instead of using my own rl money. Queue irrational rage about how I still paid rl money to ccp. Originally by: Ghoest Originally by: Tokyo Rose Also remember that the top ccp dogs are all very wealthy so even if all three projects go the way of the dodo then they are still all very wealthy. I imagine this has much to do with ccp's current direction. Why worry about taking risks with the company if there is no personal risk? I wouldnt be too sure that anyone is Iceland is actually wealthy. Anyone in iceland is most likely suffering heavily due to the financial crush. But the top ccp corporate officers? If you really think they are not making loads of money then just lol. This is the same for any business. Sure the company and especially the employees might not be making loads of cash but the top of the corp always makes a tidy profit. Lrn2capitalism. Isn't it time you went back to not playing again. The person that bought the PLEX got what he wanted out of it when you purchased it with ISK. YOU are the one that burned up CCP's liability to provide game time when you purchased and used it. No moral high ground for you I'm afraid. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.09.05 20:16:00 - [16] Its be funny if the Goons were revealed as the investors. Then we'd all be screwed -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too.
Tokyo Rose	Posted - 2011.09.05 20:21:00 - [17] Originally by: Ranger 1 Isn't it time you went back to not playing again. The person that bought the PLEX got what he wanted out of it when you purchased it with ISK. YOU are the one that burned up CCP's liability to provide game time when you purchased and used it. No moral high ground for you I'm afraid. What is this I don't even? Are you drinking and posting again? Plex are bought independently of someone paying rl money to keep a sub. Did the plex buyer get what he wanted? Of course. But it was a single transaction when normally there would be two transactions. Instead of paying rl money for a resub I paid fake money for a plex. CCP only got paid once instead of twice. Argue it as you will but I only expect another round of circular arguments.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.09.05 20:26:00 - [18] Originally by: Tokyo Rose Originally by: Ranger 1 Isn't it time you went back to not playing again. The person that bought the PLEX got what he wanted out of it when you purchased it with ISK. YOU are the one that burned up CCP's liability to provide game time when you purchased and used it. No moral high ground for you I'm afraid. What is this I don't even? Are you drinking and posting again? Plex are bought independently of someone paying rl money to keep a sub. Did the plex buyer get what he wanted? Of course. But it was a single transaction when normally there would be two transactions. Instead of paying rl money for a resub I paid fake money for a plex. CCP only got paid once instead of twice. Argue it as you will but I only expect another round of circular arguments. Yes, CCP only got paid once for one month of subscription time. You sure fooled them. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Ranger 1 Amarr Ranger Corp	Posted - 2011.09.05 20:28:00 - [19] Originally by: Tokyo Rose Originally by: Ranger 1 Isn't it time you went back to not playing again. The person that bought the PLEX got what he wanted out of it when you purchased it with ISK. YOU are the one that burned up CCP's liability to provide game time when you purchased and used it. No moral high ground for you I'm afraid. What is this I don't even? Are you drinking and posting again? Plex are bought independently of someone paying rl money to keep a sub. Did the plex buyer get what he wanted? Of course. But it was a single transaction when normally there would be two transactions. Instead of paying rl money for a resub I paid fake money for a plex. CCP only got paid once instead of twice. Argue it as you will but I only expect another round of circular arguments. I'll go slowly for you. Someone paid CCP for a PLEX. That PLEX represents an obligation from CCP to provide 30 days of game time. That someone's intent was to resell that obligation to someone else in return for ISK. You bought it and he got what he wanted, namely ISK. You got what you wanted, namely that obligation to provide game time from CCP. You have directly supported CCP's efforts by removing that obligation to provide game time and completing the transaction cycle. You like to portray yourself as not providing income to CCP because you pay for PLEX with ISK, when in fact you are essential to their income system working. Yes, there is a world beyond the end of your nose. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Ranger 1 Amarr Ranger Corp	Posted - 2011.09.05 20:30:00 - [20] Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: Tokyo Rose Originally by: Ranger 1 Isn't it time you went back to not playing again. The person that bought the PLEX got what he wanted out of it when you purchased it with ISK. YOU are the one that burned up CCP's liability to provide game time when you purchased and used it. No moral high ground for you I'm afraid. What is this I don't even? Are you drinking and posting again? Plex are bought independently of someone paying rl money to keep a sub. Did the plex buyer get what he wanted? Of course. But it was a single transaction when normally there would be two transactions. Instead of paying rl money for a resub I paid fake money for a plex. CCP only got paid once instead of twice. Argue it as you will but I only expect another round of circular arguments. Yes, CCP only got paid once for one month of subscription time. You sure fooled them. Well put. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Tokyo Rose	Posted - 2011.09.05 20:39:00 - [21] Edited by: Tokyo Rose on 05/09/2011 20:40:15 Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: Tokyo Rose Originally by: Ranger 1 Isn't it time you went back to not playing again. The person that bought the PLEX got what he wanted out of it when you purchased it with ISK. YOU are the one that burned up CCP's liability to provide game time when you purchased and used it. No moral high ground for you I'm afraid. What is this I don't even? Are you drinking and posting again? Plex are bought independently of someone paying rl money to keep a sub. Did the plex buyer get what he wanted? Of course. But it was a single transaction when normally there would be two transactions. Instead of paying rl money for a resub I paid fake money for a plex. CCP only got paid once instead of twice. Argue it as you will but I only expect another round of circular arguments. I'll go slowly for you. Someone paid CCP for a PLEX. That PLEX represents an obligation from CCP to provide 30 days of game time. That someone's intent was to resell that obligation to someone else in return for ISK. You bought it and he got what he wanted, namely ISK. You got what you wanted, namely that obligation to provide game time from CCP. You have directly supported CCP's efforts by removing that obligation to provide game time and completing the transaction cycle. You like to portray yourself as not providing income to CCP because you pay for PLEX with ISK, when in fact you are essential to their income system working. Yes, there is a world beyond the end of your nose. I'll go slowly for you. Plex sales are independent of subscsription income. Just because someone buys a plex with rl money doesn't mean its ever applied to an account. Do some plex eventually get used to fund a subscription? Of course. Does every single plex purchase go towards a subscription? Nope. Ever notice there are hundreds and hundreds of plex on the market? This is because people buy plex in the hopes of converting it to isk. Not every plex that is bought with rl money and put on the market is converted to isk hence the hundreds and hundreds on the market. So when I buy a plex with isk I'm not paying ccp any rl money. Its called speculation. Lrn2capitalism.
Ranger 1 Amarr Ranger Corp	Posted - 2011.09.05 20:42:00 - [22] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 05/09/2011 20:43:05 Originally by: Tokyo Rose Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: Tokyo Rose Originally by: Ranger 1 Isn't it time you went back to not playing again. The person that bought the PLEX got what he wanted out of it when you purchased it with ISK. YOU are the one that burned up CCP's liability to provide game time when you purchased and used it. No moral high ground for you I'm afraid. What is this I don't even? Are you drinking and posting again? Plex are bought independently of someone paying rl money to keep a sub. Did the plex buyer get what he wanted? Of course. But it was a single transaction when normally there would be two transactions. Instead of paying rl money for a resub I paid fake money for a plex. CCP only got paid once instead of twice. Argue it as you will but I only expect another round of circular arguments. I'll go slowly for you. Someone paid CCP for a PLEX. That PLEX represents an obligation from CCP to provide 30 days of game time. That someone's intent was to resell that obligation to someone else in return for ISK. You bought it and he got what he wanted, namely ISK. You got what you wanted, namely that obligation to provide game time from CCP. You have directly supported CCP's efforts by removing that obligation to provide game time and completing the transaction cycle. You like to portray yourself as not providing income to CCP because you pay for PLEX with ISK, when in fact you are essential to their income system working. Yes, there is a world beyond the end of your nose. I'll go slowly for you. Plex sales are independent of subscsription income. Just because someone buys a plex with rl money doesn't mean its ever applied to an account. Do some plex eventually get used to fund a subscription? Of course. Does every single plex purchase go towards a subscription? Nope. Ever notice there are hundreds and hundreds of plex on the market? This is because people buy plex in the hopes of converting it to isk. Not every plex that is sold on the market is converted to isk hence the hundreds and hundreds on the market. So when I buy a plex with isk I'm not paying ccp any rl money. Its called speculation. Lrn2capitalism. Of course, nobody ever said that all PLEX were used for subscription time. But in your case, that is exactly what it was used for. And with it's purchase and use by you, their potential obligation is fulfilled. Well done. Thank you for supporting EVE. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
AnzacPaul Perkone	Posted - 2011.09.05 20:44:00 - [23] Originally by: Cipher Jones It is excellent to see that you paid money to complain about it, and even better that you used someone else's money (self admitted) to do so. Thank you for your contribution to this great game. Actually, this wouls only be true once plex go into demand. At the moment there is a plentiful supply of them. For example, If your paying with a sub, you are giving CCP $15 a month. There is still an excess of plex on the market. You cancel sub, CCP get 15$ less from you, still excess of plex on market. the plex you buy off the market is already paid for, regardless of who buys it. But if someone that was once an active subscriber buys it, to me that's an overall loss to CCP. as I said, provided Plex dont get to the stage where they are selling as fast as they are put up. ______
Tokyo Rose	Posted - 2011.09.05 20:45:00 - [24] Originally by: Ranger 1 Of course, nobody ever said that all PLEX were used for subscription time. But in your case, that is exactly what it was used for. And with it's purchase by you, their potential obligation is fulfilled. Well done. Thank you for supporting EVE. And yet I personally did not support eve. Someone else did. All I did was use some fake money to buy an item that ccp was already paid for. CCP got paid regardless if I used it to resub or not. But by using it to resub ccp was denied my personal money. You need another shot mate.
Ranger 1 Amarr Ranger Corp	Posted - 2011.09.05 20:50:00 - [25] Originally by: Tokyo Rose Originally by: Ranger 1 Of course, nobody ever said that all PLEX were used for subscription time. But in your case, that is exactly what it was used for. And with it's purchase by you, their potential obligation is fulfilled. Well done. Thank you for supporting EVE. And yet I personally did not support eve. Someone else did. All I did was use some fake money to buy an item that ccp was already paid for. CCP got paid regardless if I used it to resub or not. But by using it to resub ccp was denied my personal money. You need another shot mate. Not really mate. If you, and people like you, did not create demand by spending ISK for them other people would stop purchasing them with cash (to CCP) to resell. Without you, CCP makes less money. Connect the dots, my short sighted friend. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Tokyo Rose	Posted - 2011.09.05 20:53:00 - [26] Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: Tokyo Rose Originally by: Ranger 1 Of course, nobody ever said that all PLEX were used for subscription time. But in your case, that is exactly what it was used for. And with it's purchase by you, their potential obligation is fulfilled. Well done. Thank you for supporting EVE. And yet I personally did not support eve. Someone else did. All I did was use some fake money to buy an item that ccp was already paid for. CCP got paid regardless if I used it to resub or not. But by using it to resub ccp was denied my personal money. You need another shot mate. Not really mate. If you, and people like you, did not create demand by spending ISK for them other people would stop purchasing them with cash (to CCP) to resell. Without you, CCP makes less money. Connect the dots, my short sighted friend. And yet the excess of plex on the market totally destroys your argument. Think of your liver man..
AnzacPaul Perkone	Posted - 2011.09.05 20:56:00 - [27] Edited by: AnzacPaul on 05/09/2011 20:56:42 Originally by: Ranger 1 Connect the dots, my short sighted friend. Actually considering plex are bought to be resold for isk, its the buyers of the plex (with RL cash) that control the market, not the other way around. ______
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.09.05 20:58:00 - [28] Just for clarification purposes, we are referring to one PLEX that was used to pay for Tokyo's subscription. We are not talking about sold but unused PLEX cards. I can't believe people genuinely don't comprehend that. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
AnzacPaul Perkone	Posted - 2011.09.05 21:01:00 - [29] Originally by: Cipher Jones Just for clarification purposes, we are referring to one PLEX that was used to pay for Tokyo's subscription. We are not talking about sold but unused PLEX cards. I can't believe people genuinely don't comprehend that. So are we, that plex was already paid for. So long as there is more plex on the market than what is needed, CCP aren't making any money. People buy plex to sell for isk, people looking for game time via plex do not control this. There is no demand for plex atm. Get it yet? Tokyo's been trying to tell you for about 10 posts. ______
Ranger 1 Amarr Ranger Corp	Posted - 2011.09.05 21:02:00 - [30] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 05/09/2011 21:03:31 Originally by: AnzacPaul Edited by: AnzacPaul on 05/09/2011 20:56:42 Originally by: Ranger 1 Connect the dots, my short sighted friend. Actually considering plex are bought to be resold for isk, its the buyers of the plex (with RL cash) that control the market, not the other way around. And if people did not create demand by spending ISK for those PLEX, people would stop purchasing them with cash to resell. They shell out the cash because the demand is there, not the other way around. A surplus of PLEX on the market does not change the fact that CCP got paid. Nor does it prove there is not demand for those PLEX. If there was no demand, people wouldn't be speculating with their cash. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Tokyo Rose	Posted - 2011.09.05 21:04:00 - [31] Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: AnzacPaul Edited by: AnzacPaul on 05/09/2011 20:56:42 Originally by: Ranger 1 Connect the dots, my short sighted friend. Actually considering plex are bought to be resold for isk, its the buyers of the plex (with RL cash) that control the market, not the other way around. And if people did not create demand by spending ISK for those PLEX, people would stop purchasing them with cash to resell. They shell out the cash because the demand is there, not the other way around. You have no idea what you are talking about and are arguing for the sake of arguing.
AnzacPaul Perkone	Posted - 2011.09.05 21:09:00 - [32] Originally by: Ranger 1 A surplus of PLEX on the market does not change the fact that CCP got paid. No it doesn't. But lets say the person that buy's the plex with RL cash buys 5 plex a month to support his isk habit. Is he going to go and buy 6 a month, because 1 person who was paying $15 a month to CCP via sub, drops that and buys 1 of the persons plex? Why would anyone spend more money to support someone else's habit? ______
Ranger 1 Amarr Ranger Corp	Posted - 2011.09.05 21:10:00 - [33] Originally by: Tokyo Rose Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: AnzacPaul Edited by: AnzacPaul on 05/09/2011 20:56:42 Originally by: Ranger 1 Connect the dots, my short sighted friend. Actually considering plex are bought to be resold for isk, its the buyers of the plex (with RL cash) that control the market, not the other way around. And if people did not create demand by spending ISK for those PLEX, people would stop purchasing them with cash to resell. They shell out the cash because the demand is there, not the other way around. You have no idea what you are talking about and are arguing for the sake of arguing. Maybe you missed the countless threads where this has all been explained before in excruciating detail. These things happen when you take long sabbaticals. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.09.05 21:10:00 - [34] Originally by: AnzacPaul Originally by: Cipher Jones Just for clarification purposes, we are referring to one PLEX that was used to pay for Tokyo's subscription. We are not talking about sold but unused PLEX cards. I can't believe people genuinely don't comprehend that. So are we, that plex was already paid for. So long as there is more plex on the market than what is needed, CCP aren't making any money. People buy plex to sell for isk, people looking for game time via plex do not control this. There is no demand for plex atm. Get it yet? Tokyo's been trying to tell you for about 10 posts. You fail at economics in game and out. 1. I said I was glad somebody paid for Tokyo's sub; this is true. 2. As long as there is inflation (and there is) the same amount of past currency is worth more than the same amount currently. While you may be ****ed CCP re-invested their money, all of us are not. Bringing up that the PLEX was purchased with money when it was worth more only makes me happier. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
AnzacPaul Perkone	Posted - 2011.09.05 21:15:00 - [35] Originally by: Cipher Jones troll, or stupid, can't work out which. Back under your bridge. ______
Tokyo Rose	Posted - 2011.09.05 21:16:00 - [36] Originally by: Cipher Jones While you may be ***ed CCP re-invested their money, all of us are not. Which brings us right back to the only point that matters to any person who wants eve to be the best it can be. CCP are not using eve's income to improve eve. CCP is using eve's income to improve their bottom line at the explicit detriment of eve development. Why is this ok for anyone who wants eve to be the best it can be and finally have at least one*(just one!!) new feature be developed to conclusion?
Cors It's A Trap It's A Trap Alliance	Posted - 2011.09.05 21:16:00 - [37] Originally by: Abrazzar Alright. Alright. I'll fix it. Now. EVERYBODY! Send me 100 bucks. With some 300k subscriptions that should yield enough cash to buy out the evil investors and give the power back to the players. Deal? P.S. I'll set up a paypal account for this once I get enough positive response. For now, just send me PLEXes. I'd rather do this, then have mircotransactions. Where can I buy CCP stock.... --- microtransaction Noun (economics) A transaction for a very small amount of money. -- I will NOT buy items for real life cash. I pay for 5 accounts. Thats enough.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.09.05 21:19:00 - [38] Edited by: Cipher Jones on 05/09/2011 21:21:31 Edited by: Cipher Jones on 05/09/2011 21:21:08 Originally by: AnzacPaul Originally by: Cipher Jones troll, or stupid, can't work out which. Back under your bridge. When you can't use logic against it, its not trolling, bruh. Originally by: Tokyo Rose Originally by: Cipher Jones While you may be ***ed CCP re-invested their money, all of us are not. Which brings us right back to the only point that matters to any person who wants eve to be the best it can be. CCP are not using eve's income to improve eve. CCP is using eve's income to improve their bottom line at the explicit detriment of eve development. Why is this ok for anyone who wants eve to be the best it can be and finally have at least one(just one!!) new feature be developed to conclusion? Using your logic, college is a bad choice. You can either benefit directly by getting a minimum wage (or whatever your country has for *** jobs) now, or go to school and make more money later. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Trolls Troll	Posted - 2011.09.05 21:22:00 - [39] Originally by: Cipher Jones Known Monocotroll +1 for bad economics trolling Cipphy
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.09.05 21:23:00 - [40] Originally by: Trolls Troll Originally by: Cipher Jones Known Monocotroll +1 for bad economics trolling Cipphy Thanks. I see your rebuttal lacks an actual rebuttal also. Thank you. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
AnzacPaul Perkone	Posted - 2011.09.05 21:24:00 - [41] Originally by: Cipher Jones When you can't use logic against it Exactly, which is why I gave up with you. ______
Tokyo Rose	Posted - 2011.09.05 21:27:00 - [42] Originally by: Cipher Jones Using your logic, college is a bad choice. You can either benefit directly by getting a minimum wage (or whatever your country has for **** jobs) now, or go to school and make more money later. Wait what? You are comparing college to a game? College is your path to a better future. Profit whooring is ccp's path to a fatter wallet. How can this possibly be the same thing?
Trolls Troll	Posted - 2011.09.05 21:28:00 - [43] Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: Trolls Troll Originally by: Cipher Jones Known Monocotroll +1 for bad economics trolling Cipphy Thanks. I see your rebuttal lacks an actual rebuttal also. Thank you. don't be mad cause your maths ain't no good bro, plenty people can't do it.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.09.05 21:36:00 - [44] Originally by: AnzacPaul Originally by: Cipher Jones When you can't use logic against it Exactly, which is why I gave up with you. The money was paid and you failed to prove otherwise. Originally by: Tokyo Rose Originally by: Cipher Jones Using your logic, college is a bad choice. You can either benefit directly by getting a minimum wage (or whatever your country has for ** jobs) now, or go to school and make more money later. Wait what? You are comparing college to a game? College is your path to a better future. Profit whooring is ccp's path to a fatter wallet. How can this possibly be the same thing? When you re-invest money its not profit whoring. Ergo its not the same thing. Even you get to be right once in a while. Originally by:** Trolls Troll Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: Trolls Troll Originally by: Cipher Jones Known Monocotroll +1 for bad economics trolling Cipphy Thanks. I see your rebuttal lacks an actual rebuttal also. Thank you. don't be mad cause your maths ain't no good bro, plenty people can't do it. The use of a double negative indicates that "my maths are in fact good". Once again thank you for your support. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Trolls Troll	Posted - 2011.09.05 21:41:00 - [45] Edited by: Trolls Troll on 05/09/2011 21:43:32 Originally by: Cipher Jones Just learnt 2 negatives make a positive Glad I could teach you something bro, makes my day to educate monocotrolls Edit: In fact now it makes sense how you could see CCP are making money by having 2 negatives...............
Tokyo Rose	Posted - 2011.09.05 21:47:00 - [46] Originally by: Cipher Jones When you re-invest money its not profit whoring. Ergo its not the same thing. Even you get to be right once in a while. When you reinvest money at the expense of your playerbase to make even more money at the expense of your playerbase its profit whooring. The only reason ccp is funding multiple projects is to increase its future bottom line and not because of some altruistic crap to eventually improve eve. CCP could improve eve right now by not investing in projects that have nothing to do with or that have limited impact on eve.
Barbelo Valentinian Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.09.05 22:18:00 - [47] Originally by: Tokyo Rose The only reason ccp is funding multiple projects is to increase its future bottom line It could also be because, as creative people, they're bored to tears of working on the same bloody game for eight years. ***** "To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.09.05 22:49:00 - [48] Originally by: Tokyo Rose Originally by: Cipher Jones When you re-invest money its not profit whoring. Ergo its not the same thing. Even you get to be right once in a while. When you reinvest money at the expense of your playerbase to make even more money at the expense of your playerbase its profit whooring. The only reason ccp is funding multiple projects is to increase its future bottom line and not because of some altruistic crap to eventually improve eve. CCP could improve eve right now by not investing in projects that have nothing to do with or that have limited impact on eve. You cannot possibly "make money" unless is it "at the expense of" another party. Re-invent your argument to compensate for that over-looked real world mechanic. CCP is a business. Its primary ethical responsibility is to make money for its shareholders. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Irma Phelbs	Posted - 2011.09.05 22:56:00 - [49] Originally by: Zenith Intaki CCP employees aren't calling the shots anymore. Investors are and that's the reason why EVE turned into massive crap pile. Also, that little tiny guy with the vision of the best scifi experience should be fired. We already had that, in form of Rev II. Actually, that game only remaining hope is the investors bringing in competent top level managers and a few experienced project leads (getting rid of hilmar, zulu, tortifrans and a few others obviously) to bring it back on track and harness the power of the genuinely good people working at CCP whose talent is wasted by what is maybe the most ******ed leadership for a company still in business (althought the "in business" part may change on October 28).
Trixie Stardust	Posted - 2011.09.05 23:10:00 - [50] Originally by: Tokyo Rose So when I buy a plex with isk I'm not paying ccp any rl money. Its called speculation. Lrn2capitalism. Your very presence in the game is providing content. You think you're getting something free, ha, you're providing content for free. If you're funding your sub with plex then you're a high end player who is out doing all sorts of things.. indsutry (providing content), playing the markets (providing content), pew pew (providing content), being a corporate / alliance bigwig (providing content). So you see.. CCP is getting the better in this deal. Also of course you're indirectly giving CCP money.. you're supporting the plex system.. plex purcharses are cash money into CCP (even better if people don't redeem them and they pool on the market or get traded for a monocle that cost nothing to produce).
Ghoest	Posted - 2011.09.05 23:23:00 - [51] Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: Ghoest Originally by: Cipher Jones The whole reason, the only reason, that people are mad at CCP is because they took a larger risk than continuing to develop EvE and EvE only. No this is false people are "mad" due to 2 primary reasons. 1 No new "space ship" content has been added in almost 2 years and looks like none is on the way in the foreseeable future. 2 Some people resent various aspects of NEX. Many other companies continue to add popular content to their first game while developing a new game. CCP chose a different route and people are upset. All of which is a result of deciding to develop other games. Cipher rhetoric fault alert. Wherever you went - Here you are.
MsValentineWiggin	Posted - 2011.09.06 00:23:00 - [52] Originally by: Tokyo Rose Originally by: Cipher Jones When you re-invest money its not profit whoring. Ergo its not the same thing. Even you get to be right once in a while. When you reinvest money at the expense of your playerbase to make even more money at the expense of your playerbase its profit whooring. The only reason ccp is funding multiple projects is to increase its future bottom line and not because of some altruistic crap to eventually improve eve. The usual business terms for this tend to have portfolio in them. E.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_portfolio_management Sony has thousands of products; almost none of them have the same amount of their profit re-invested in them they would if they were stand alone products. The better ones have more; the worse ones are underfunded to free up funds for the more interesting projects. Similarly, Microsoft has hundreds of software titles. Do you think many customers of FIFA 12 worry if profits from their sales go to fund the development of NCAA Football 12? SInce I don't want to be the only non-troll in this topic, I ask you why would an executive trying to make the best use of corporate resource choose to invest in EVE if there were good alternatives? Why invest in a brand where the customers want it to be unfriendly to new players; who want to be able to grief paying customers away from the game; who want a UI obtuse enough to drive new players away? There are reasons why EVE Online is an interesting game to play. It's a lot harder to come up with reasons why it is a growth investment.
Irma Phelbs	Posted - 2011.09.06 06:32:00 - [53] Originally by: MsValentineWiggin Why invest in a brand where the customers want it to be unfriendly to new players; who want to be able to grief paying customers away from the game; who want a UI obtuse enough to drive new players away? There are reasons why EVE Online is an interesting game to play. It's a lot harder to come up with reasons why it is a growth investment. EVE have a proven record of hooking people for years, and my bet is that the ridiculous UI, the imbalances the dull gameplay have a lot more to do with the low newbie retention than the "griefing" going on. There are way enough competitive players in the world for a thousand EVE, just invest in the game to make it attractive.
Aineko Macx	Posted - 2011.09.06 08:21:00 - [54] Edited by: Aineko Macx on 06/09/2011 08:23:51 Edited by: Aineko Macx on 06/09/2011 08:22:44 The largest investor in CCP. Note the connection to the russian mob. EDIT: Sorry, the link can't be fixed, CCPs forum is unable to handle icelandic characters Copy and paste manually: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bj÷rg=lfur_Thor_Bj÷rg=lfsson ________________________ CCP: Where fixing bugs is a luxury, not an obligation.
Paola DiLivio	Posted - 2011.09.06 12:12:00 - [55] Originally by: Aineko Macx Edited by: Aineko Macx on 06/09/2011 08:23:51 Edited by: Aineko Macx on 06/09/2011 08:22:44 The largest investor in CCP. Note the connection to the russian mob. EDIT: Sorry, the link can't be fixed, CCPs forum is unable to handle icelandic characters Copy and paste manually: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bj÷rg=lfur_Thor_Bj÷rg=lfsson http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/aug/27/iceland-tycoon-thor-high-life-icesave-collapse is a lot more interesting than the Wikipedia link
Mr Plack	Posted - 2011.09.06 12:30:00 - [56] Quote: 2 Some people resent various aspects of NEX. Anyone with half a brain should see the biggest unfairness in the entire matter: CCP is using your subscription fees to finance graphics designers to create virtual cloths that they are then SELLING back to you for horrendous prices. People don't seem to understand this. This in itself is absolutely outrageous in my opinion. First waste all our money to create a service that is then only provided to the dumbest and richest of the community. It basically shows that CCP has not a shred of decency and are willing to do whatever it takes to earn money.
Potato IQ	Posted - 2011.09.06 15:15:00 - [57] Originally by: Irma Phelbs Originally by: MsValentineWiggin Why invest in a brand where the customers want it to be unfriendly to new players; who want to be able to grief paying customers away from the game; who want a UI obtuse enough to drive new players away? There are reasons why EVE Online is an interesting game to play. It's a lot harder to come up with reasons why it is a growth investment. EVE have a proven record of hooking people for years, and my bet is that the ridiculous UI, the imbalances the dull gameplay have a lot more to do with the low newbie retention than the "griefing" going on. There are way enough competitive players in the world for a thousand EVE, just invest in the game to make it attractive. But thatÆs your competitive view of the game, not necessarily the competitive types view. Which do you think investors are more interested in? MsValentine pretty much sums up the rock and a hard place that CCP sits. Your business portfolio has to be an attractive package. A niche game with a loyal but slow to grow playerbase is not it. They have to expand to survive A painful time for the subscribers, but the caustic approach being adopted by the slavering minority of the games populace is more of a concern than EveÆs current stall in meaningful development/ill conceived content addition
Ineka Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.09.06 16:20:00 - [58] So what will you play after Eve dies? I think I'll finally try Facebook, seems there's a lot of beautiful ladies asking to be hull tanked and, after all, I've started Gallente and have huge tank skills.

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