No. Fly a Mackinaw.

The mackinaw mining amout sucks.

The mackinaw mining amout sucks. i didnt spend months getting all my skills to 5 to mine in a ship that cant mine.

I think when the size of the ore hold was balanced, it was taken into account that there are no rigs/modules for ore hold increase.

The Mack mines something like 10% less than a Hulk. It also has the largest Ore hold of all the miners.

CCP deliberately set the Hulk to have a small ore hold to STOP you from doing what you're asking them to do. Why on earth would you think they'd introduce a module that would completely undo the work they put into balancing these ships?

If you want max yield (Hulk) then you need a hauler. If you want max AFK (Mackinaw) then you sacrifice yield.

Hulk for fleet mining, Mackinaw for solo mining and Procurer for bait mining.

Why are there so many miners who simply don't get this? The mind truly boggles.

Ya i have 120 million in rigs on one ship alone that would argue with that...

Over all the changes and adding a orehold was a good idea.. but they should have left the general sizes of the holds be the same. when they transfered over to oreholds.

It really does not make sence that the largest most expensive ore mining ship is not the best.. all around ship to mine with.

I understand they wanted to make group mining more of a focus.. and i do group mine as well.. but dont nerf it for when people are solo mining becuase people are not online.. or you just feel like mining solo.

from what you've said, it sounds like your old mining ship was fit for max cargo, which means you had terrible yield and even worse tank. Your new option is a mackinaw with better yield than before, about double the space for ore, and a solid tank.

It's like you're complaining about insurance costs on your new ferrari after winning the powerball and quitting your job at burger king.

No. Rly which battleship is the best, tell me?

And you cry Hulk isnt the best in all ways than the others? How can you not see that now other two exhumers are useful, rather than useless, like they were before?

The only ship that was usless before was the skiff.. because it was to weak to use in 0.0.. and in empire you could not even get the ore it was made for.

The old way was set up for hulk (max ore) (and cargo)

And mac was max ICE with enough cargo hold to take in 2.5 pulls if fitted right.

The current setup is most cargo for a ship that mines less.. and less cargo for a ship that mines the most?? sounds kinda backwards to me.

It like making a dump truck with a small bin to hold stuff .. and making a loader with a super mega sized scoop that dumps extra sand or what ever all over the place around the dump truck because its bin is to small.

So you would like to get a refund for your now useless T2 cargo rigs, right?

You claim that a more expensive ship is always better: compare battleships and black ops. And while you're at it, compare the dps of a sieged dreadnought and the dps of a titan. Compare the dps of an interceptor and an attack frigate. Etc etc. A higher price does not equal overall better stats.

The ships are now specialized, which is good.

And finally, the hulk costs 5% more than a mack. Big deal.

No i had it set up for max mining with 2x mining laser upgrade II's and with 2x cargo hold opt. II's i could hold 2x pulls without any loss of ore. and i mined more then the current amount now for the hulk.

current setup i lose ore on the second pull every time.. and i pull less ore over time as well.

The only way i can get it to work is to stagger all the beams and dump ore into a can.

Before i didnt need to use a can even. unless i wanted to group mine .. then i used jet cans and haulers.

The new system is very inefficent and could be corrected with orehold rigs.

and just so you all know i dont support afk mining.. or bots... i cant wait till they put in ore scanning.. and get rid of the belts... i always wanted mining to be an active thing to do because i enjoy it.

The mackinaw mining amout sucks. i didnt spend months getting all my skills to 5 to mine in a ship that cant mine.

I'm not afk mining.. im just mining.. It's people like you that assume that 100% of miners just log on turn there miners on and go play another game or watch youtube.


And as for afk and macro miners.. if CCP did what they were supposed to it would not be a problem.. they were supposed to make mining require scanning down you ore.. instead of going to a belt... ibut they always just trry and bandaid things. instead fo fixing them.

its not the best option but it will have to do.. in the end i think im going to re-sub my hauling alt again.. cause thats the best option lol

Maybe thats was CCP's idea in the first place.. lol

I know a lot of miners have spent large amounts of money puting cargo expanding rigs on there mining ships. We did that to increase the ore holding maximum on our ships. Not to hold mining crystals in the cargo hold.

Cargo expanding rigs are now 50% more useless because the only real thing to use them for now is to expand cargo space on haulers.

I know CCP is trying to make mining ships more role set... but.

Solo mining is still something people do... and having ships with a super large ore hold but mines slow.. is retareded.

Same thing for having a ship that mines the largest amout have a small ore hold.. its just stupid.. and forces jet can mining on solo miners.. or making us look like macro miners cause we have to warp to station all the time. (which is a huge waste of time).

So.. new rigs... Medium Orehold Optimization I and II etc. all the needed ones

120 million in rigs

Ya i have 120 million in rigs on one ship alone that would argue with that...

Give the orca a 125k m3 ore hold (half the rorq but no compression). Then it can realistically support a small fleet of hulks

Not required... the orca is fine as is... please stop trying to turn everything into a massive afk activity. Just warp the orca to station or pos and empty it instead of being so lazy

1.) The hulk / mack / skiff are well designed, imo. The hulk is meant to be used with a fleet, not solo... htfu!!!

2.) I also believe in choice.... I don't see any problems with ore-bay expander rigs... but they need to have an appropriate penalty. Something like -10% to shield resistances, or -15% to shields, or something potent enough to put you in jeopardy of suicide gankers.

I know a lot of miners have spent large amounts of money puting cargo expanding rigs on there mining ships. We did that to increase the ore holding maximum on our ships. Not to hold mining crystals in the cargo hold.

Cargo expanding rigs are now 50% more useless because the only real thing to use them for now is to expand cargo space on haulers.

I know CCP is trying to make mining ships more role set... but.

Solo mining is still something people do... and having ships with a super large ore hold but mines slow.. is retareded.

Same thing for having a ship that mines the largest amout have a small ore hold.. its just stupid.. and forces jet can mining on solo miners.. or making us look like macro miners cause we have to warp to station all the time. (which is a huge waste of time).

So.. new rigs... Medium Orehold Optimization I and II etc. all the needed ones

No. Simply, no.

You need to stop crying about this, because you're coming across as very stupid.

Besides, you can drag ore into your cargo hold anyway if you really wanted to. Drag it back and forth. Be happy. Also, thanks for the info about your Hulk and its juicy Tech 2 cargo rigs. I'm sure there's a goon somewhere around here who'll introduce you to their "Hulkageddon" initiative.

You know, I'm generally against in-game griefing, but I'll admit there's an exception for everything. You're just a locator-agent's call away from a fat kill mail from a suicide gank. Let that thought resonate with you when you go out in your belt tonight, mate.

This means that if you are not afk mining you can turn your lasers off at about 5 Minutes and 30 seconds and have a full cargo hold in a Hulk. In a mack, you can leave your lasers on for 26 minutes and 10ish seconds and have a full hold. Average 3 minutes (optimistic) to warp to station and drop off the ore and get back to belt here are the rough net mining amounts for a 60 minute period for both ships

SOLO mining, the hulk nets about 464,100 M3 of ore in 60 minutes, while the Mack nets 714,100 M3 in the same period.
With a hauler however, the hulk nets 928,100 M3 while the mack only nets 803,400.

So to recap:
60 minutes No hauler
Mack: 714,100 M3
Hulk: 464,100

60 Minutes with hauler
Mack: 803,400
Hulk: 928,100

If I'm not mistaken that is exactly what CCP was going for. Solo miners have less yield but a larger cargo hold while fleet Ops can use a higher yield boat because they don't need the cargo space.

Discourages afking and solo mining (to a SLIGHT degree) and encourages teamwork and, you know, social things.

Seems balanced to me.

Long story short: Working as intended. Quit bitching about your rigs.

EDIT: Spelling.

P.S. I wont even get into the EHP difference.

Ore expander rig (no t2 version like the ice and mercoxit rigs) +50% to ore hold, - 50% structure 250 calibration

this way each specialization in mining (Ice Ore and Mercoxit) has a unique rig that you can only use one of on any given setup. it will be beneficial to all three barges while having a sufficient drawback to make it balanced.

i think this is by far the best approach to the ore hold complaint for all barges and will keep most people happy

I like the looks of this rig, just change it to -50% shields. The shields are the only thing that miners care about since the primary tank was shifted to them. Make the penalty a real penalty, and then I see these as acceptable. Who cares about a bit of structure when the primary tank of choice is shield. Make people make sacrifices for that hold. Not token penalties meant to appease people.

the other two specialization rigs have no penalty at all. their benefits are either 12% reduction in ice harvester cycle time, or 16% increase in mercoxit yield. looking at the effect of primary tank(shield) reduction is a very bad choice of drawback, especially for a rig hats purpose is to specialize the ship, not make it glaringly better.

a 50% boost to ore hold for each exhumer (obviously reduced for barges)

Hulk from 8500 to 12750
Mack from 35000 to 52500 (at level 5)
Skiff from 15000 to 22500

these are significant gains, but given the yields of conventional ores compared to mercoxit or ice. the numbers are pretty fair. in a world where miners aren't so persecuted for whatever reason people seem to hate on miners, this rig is easily balanced by the fact that you have to sacrifice a rig that would increase tank (in most fits) for this rig, which is a fair tradeoff. the token structure penalty isn't really a token penalty, because short of the skiff it is a significant decrease in EHP overall.

think of it this way. you slice much more off a hulks shields it will have less EHP than an assault ship, a way larger sig and way less speed. these things need to be capable of at least survivng nulsec belt spawns in time for some sort of logistics to show up because thats what they are designed for. just because its a mining ship that is getting max yield doesn't mean it needs to have a crappy tank. you can get maximum DPS out of a combat ship and still have a good shield tank ammo capacity etc, why cant the Mining ships do the same if you equate their DPS to ore yield

Why are people bringing in all this usless stuff about other ships.. there was a time when black ops ships were better then standard battleships.

And titans lol.. there used to be a time when they could insta pop 300 ships if they didnt crash the whole cluster!!

When ever they change something in game some ships get left behind.. like black ops.. and as for titans there role as a almost system wide death star has been changed. and for the good.

Some of the changes they make are good ones and some are bad.. like what they did to the ORE ships.

And the easy way to offset this is to make proper rigs for all the ore ships.. ones that are actually usefull for ORE ships. not just the hulk. but all 3 of them.

Perhaps a credit on the rigs we paid for storage. My Hulk could haul 14 m3 and now only 8.5. I understand the reasoning but a lot of money was spent buying/purchasing equipment and rigs which are now useless. It sure took me by surprise.