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TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc
Elysian Empire
403
   |
Posted - 2012.10.03 12:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
Oh big deal, so some lazypvp lamers will have to put in a bit more effort or use a different ship. Big deal.
We've been managing fine with npcs switching targets in wormhole space for years, and the stupid nullrats are STILL not going to be as aggressive or powerful as sleepers even after the changes |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc
Elysian Empire
403
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 13:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
On the subject of it making pve in nullsec easier... it's already so easy it's almost game breakingly stupid.
Fix local and then everything will be better |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc
Elysian Empire
403
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 13:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
And lets not forget you can simply just wait for him to kill off the small things before decloaking and engaging. Or if he's saving them until last, wait until theres just a few left, decloak, point bear, kill rats, kill bear.
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TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc
Elysian Empire
406
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Posted - 2012.10.04 08:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Capqu wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:And lets not forget you can simply just wait for him to kill off the small things before decloaking and engaging. Or if he's saving them until last, wait until theres just a few left, decloak, point bear, kill/tank rats, kill bear. Capqu wrote:Adapt? I think you missed the part where CCP FoxFour explicitly stated soloing in a stealth bomber is dead and gone. How can you adapt that? I think you missed the part where FoxFour is simply wrong. If you're not going to believe the person who thought out, tested and implemented these changes, then how on earth can you support them?
The reason I don't believe him is because I've spent two years in wormholes. With sleepers who change targets, and are even more aggressive and hit even harder than these changed null npcs will. Guess what? People running pve in wormholes get ganked all the time.
Also, I offered a bloody explanation of how you could work within the mechanics to do it - how about you (or foxfour, if he likes) point out the flaws in what I said? Instead of just dismissing them and crying. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc
Elysian Empire
406
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 08:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Capqu wrote:BoBoZoBo wrote:I do not support this view.
Why should NPCs ignore a juicy target... you wouldn't.
Why should NPCs continue attacking targets they cannot take down... you wouldn't.
Why should NPCs help you kill something you would benefit from... you wouldn't
Not to mention, there is already an in-game precedent for this as WH hunters have to deal with this already. Maybe you just need to expand your horizons and raise the challenge bar a bit?
Besides, what after you made your kill? Do they continue to ignore you? Help you loot? It is good and immersive to have smarter AI all around that treats everyone equally. Keeps everyone on their toes. Must be nice to be able to sit and wait for an opportune moment to attack without some sort of easily accessible intel channel letting you know exactly who is nearby. Hunting in W-Space is very different to K-Space, so please stop drawing false parallels and misleading people.
NPCs being smarter and changing targets and what not (instead of being brainless garbage like they currently are) is not the problem though, the problem is the stupid, instant, infallible intel tool that is local. Fix the real issue rather than crying about something that in itself isn't the problem (and is in fact a vast improvement) |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc
Elysian Empire
407
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 15:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Golar Crexis wrote:SO to sum up the arguments against so far we have had:
1. People who have never been ganked or have never tried hunting in 0.0 trying to make some ******** argument based on RL situations.
2. People who have been ganked in 0.0 and blame us for their mistakes (we can't catch you unless you make one) supporting this cause for the extra protection if they do make a mistake.
3. People who are concerned but believe the AI changes won't affect ganking as badly as we make it out to be.
Fair enough but we are sharing the results of our testing on sisi to show people as to why we reached these conclusions. And you are free to do your own testing as well. Try tackling a carrier in a sanctum. No seriously its hilarious what happens.
4. Wormhole dwellers pointing out quite correctly that they have had to deal with this problem for a long time.
Fair enough but you have it on easy mode. Wormhole ganking isn't hard, You do not have to contend with the following:
Local
Intel channels
Jumpbridge networks allowing for the pursuing home def fleet to get ahead of us
Dead end systems where we can get camped in.
5. People who misread the OP.
So in short these are the main types of arguments for the current version of the new AI.
Our stance on the new AI is this:
The new AI is wonderful and long overdue. However ratters get an unforseen buff to their own safety simply due to the fact that the AI will swap to a target that isn't shooting it. We don't agree with that and want ccp to make sure they fully understand what they are doing before implementing this change (protip: I wouldn't trust CCP's opinion on the finer details of any matter relating to pvp and life in null-sec.)
Stopped paying attention when you claimed wormhole PVP was "easy mode".
NPCs switching targets is not a problem at all - or at least, in and of itself it isn't. If other mechanics (cough local cough) are problematic then this may highlight it a bit more, but you can't demand the current awful, useless NPC mechanics stay awful and useless as a result of that, that's just silly
I can't believe the 1337 NULL PVP PROS are crying over a god damn npc frigate ruining their ability for 1337 NULL PVP ACTION.
Edit: Actually, whats the point in even arguing. CCP have made it very, very clear that they're turning this into Hello Kitty Online. Failwatch, miner buff, and more. By winter 2014 all PVE will be instanced and only corp members can access those pockets of space. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc
Elysian Empire
409
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 14:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Capqu wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Edit: Actually, whats the point in even arguing. CCP have made it very, very clear that they're turning this into Hello Kitty Online. Failwatch, miner buff, and more. By winter 2014 all PVE will be instanced and only corp members can access those pockets of space.
If you have this view, why are you arguing for making null sec ratting safer? I agree that WH PVE is harder than K space PVE, but an AI change is not going to change that, or indeed make K space PVE harder in the majority of cases. All it does for the average ratter (read: solo tengu/drake without drones out) is make the ratter more likely to survive being tackled, a situation they had ample time to avoid.
Except I'm NOT arguing for making k-space PVE easier or "safer". I happen to believe we can have more intelligent npcs without making it "safer" - so long as the 'templates' aren't too easy. Bring on the neuts, extreme aggression, target switching, and more... and if we fix local, because lets face it, a frigate rat shooting at you as you try to kill a bear is nowhere near as big a safety net as local being instant and infallible.
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