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Level 4 Agents. And how they are ruining the game. (constructive)

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Naverin	Posted - 2005.03.11 13:10:00 - [1] Hey everyone. Im a deep space miner, i have mined every type of ore in the game been there done it all. Ive also done agent missions before shiva i was upto the top level 3 with amarr faimly it was fun cause on a random whim id go and do a few agent missions near my empire mining base in hopes of an implant or somthing. Shiva announced and level 4 agents.. Oh goodie! harder stuff to do Awesome i thought. Shiva came and gone... I have yet to do a level 4 agent mission. I refuse to for the simple fact that they are ruining the game. AT a peak mining in 0.0 in optimal conditions i can mine nearly 25 million and hour minus haul time. now take in mind this is with my 3 person account team . 1 large barge 1 bship tanking 1 Iteron 5 hauling. I consider myself a top miner in the game. I can sit down and wtfpwn any asteroid anywhere with my team not a problem. ive trained many months for barges and max mining skills IM proud of what i can do. I consider myself on the "top" of the mining aspect of the game after long months of training and learning how to do it. Pros- 0.0 spawns to get loot from highend ores to mine Feeling good for being able to work in 0.0 cons- pirate attacks (i can be attacked at any time) Long hauls 30+ jumps to a sales node in empire. (i have sence stoped hauling to empire i just build in 0.0 now) Limited markets (aint ** on the market in stain lol) Lets take a look at level 4 agent missions in RENS a 0.9 system From what i hear. people are easily making 10-15 mill an hour without breaking a sweat. Easy to train into a raven and get missiles.. probably 1 month of training and your a raven pilot who can spam cruise/torps/fofs Pros: Empire- safe space good income (no hauling no mining pretty easily done) Local markets. Full of gear to resupply. Cons: not so good npc loot. Ladys and gentlmen.. Do you see somthing wrong with this? Where the hell is the risk vs reward? I PROPOSE all level 4 agents be moved to 0.0 locations .. Having such an easy money making ability in a .9 where you can sit in a beginer corp and NEVER HAVE ANY PROBLEMS just makes me sick. GET these agents the hell out of empire.. I for one am ed as hell. I trained for months to get where i am to mine this well in 0.0.. I learned the area the people... I put in the time And the HUGE risk.. I want a bigger reward then some assmonkey who can sit in Rens in a raven and beat the ** outta level 4 agent missions for nearly the same isk an hour as i can mining in harsh 0.0 conditions. Keep this going and I dont see 0.0 EVERY being populated... only thing you will see is that HUGE ASS RED BLOB IN RENS because everyone is there doing missions for easy isk in SAFE SPACE.. k! thats all ive got to say about that
bUBbLeS	Posted - 2005.03.11 13:14:00 - [2] Edited by: bUBbLeS on 11/03/2005 13:14:58 yay 4 level 4 its actually more like 30 mil / hour if your set up right for it and yes its very little risk and huge rewards (u seen how much faction bships sell for?) Julius ceaser : "operor vos volo MCCCXXXVII laganum bUBbLeS?"
Naverin	Posted - 2005.03.11 13:19:00 - [3] Vex.. please dont ruin this threat.. its constructive on how to fix the level 4 agent mission issue thats ruining the game.. just because your an empire carebear doesnt mean you should make just as much isk per hour as i can in 0.0 mining. As stated.. I feel moving these agents to low security space or even 0.0 would be a viable option as it would create a bit of "risk" for the easy reward
Nostradamu5	Posted - 2005.03.11 13:20:00 - [4] Maybe the Devs should create a Lvl 5 mission worth 150 mil but all the lvl 5 locations would be within Alliance space. will that stop your whinning? Stop griping about server instability and go buy an EVE mug! Additionally with the purchase of each mug you will receive two(2) invisible Elves.
Naverin	Posted - 2005.03.11 13:22:00 - [5] Nope.. no whining here.. simply stating facts as how easily and unbalnced the isk flow is atm. Btw. Please no obscene ideas such as level 5 agents in alliance space... Alliance dont own any space.. we simply live in it.
Vex Seraphim	Posted - 2005.03.11 13:25:00 - [6] Originally by: Naverin Vex.. please dont ruin this threat.. its constructive on how to fix the level 4 agent mission issue thats ruining the game.. just because your an empire carebear doesnt mean you should make just as much isk per hour as i can in 0.0 mining. I'm not 'ruining' an original thread, i'm 'flaming' a thread about a topic discussed in countless other threads before, a topic that isn't worth yet another thread. And tbh, lvl4 missions are not all that easy, most people who don't do much pvp tend to lose ships at these missions easily. You don't get pounded by 2x2mil bships+10x110k cruisers every two minutes in your belt, now do you? What you do is find yourself a safe location with about two-three smalltime cruiser rats, and tank it. And when you see a player enemy in local, you log off. So, before they nerf local, map and logging off, i'm staying absolutely against nerfing lvl4 missions. ------------------- :: finite horizon :: killboard :: :: bio :: blog ::
V2GBR	Posted - 2005.03.11 13:27:00 - [7] Look as always the good empire hugging carebears get the good stuff it will not change as they whine louder than the rest. I agree that it needs changing as the risk vs reward is bollox ! There is no risk. ---------- http://guc.webinventions.co.uk <-- GUC Site. www.webinventions.co.uk <-- My eve history.
Naverin	Posted - 2005.03.11 13:28:00 - [8] Quote: What you do is find yourself a safe location with about two-three smalltime cruiser rats, and tank it. And when you see a player enemy in local, you log off. Actually i dont care what spawn it is i have an uber tank and ive tanked tyrant + Dual overlords to mine before.. not an issue with me. oh and i have never logged off when pirates show up. I dock. get my bships pvp fit and attempt to fight.
Toran Mehtar	Posted - 2005.03.11 13:29:00 - [9] My thoughts on the subject are here Linkage Lvl 4 agents are here to stay. I think it's time the rest of the game (especially 0.0) adapted to match it.
Vex Seraphim	Posted - 2005.03.11 13:30:00 - [10] Originally by: Naverin Quote: What you do is find yourself a safe location with about two-three smalltime cruiser rats, and tank it. And when you see a player enemy in local, you log off. Actually i dont care what spawn it is i have an uber tank and ive tanked tyrant + Dual overlords to mine before.. not an issue with me. oh and i have never logged off when pirates show up. I dock. get my bships pvp fit and attempt to fight. That's quite rare, as i hunt players in 0.0 on a daily basis, most 0.0 npc'ers and miners simply logoff on seeing an enemy in local. Some safespot, then logoff. Some instajump out, but those are only the ballsy ones. Where's the 0.0 danger? ------------------- :: finite horizon :: killboard :: :: bio :: blog ::
Nostradamu5	Posted - 2005.03.11 13:31:00 - [11] I saw somewhere that XECTIC alliance believes itÆs the largest, and then maybe all lvl 5 missions should be run in xectic claimed space. This thread is deteriorating IBTL Stop griping about server instability and go buy an EVE mug! Additionally with the purchase of each mug you will receive two(2) invisible Elves.
Pollie	Posted - 2005.03.11 13:36:00 - [12] Moving lvl 4 missions to 0.0 will lead to non-pvp players getting ganked by the dozen. Eve will lose subscribers. I suggest you go and pwn some more roids and leave balance ideas to the devs
Naverin	Posted - 2005.03.11 13:39:00 - [13] no one said they have to do the level 4 missions in 0.0.. they can sit on their level 3's in empire.. And devs have this funny thing about not doing anything untill someone makes enough commotion about it.. and dont you think people like me who work hard to live in 0.0 will be leaving the game soon if people keep leaving 0.0 to make more money in rens a .9 system with basicly no risk? what about thos subscriptions... :/
Vex Seraphim	Posted - 2005.03.11 13:48:00 - [14] Originally by: Naverin no one said they have to do the level 4 missions in 0.0.. they can sit on their level 3's in empire.. And devs have this funny thing about not doing anything untill someone makes enough commotion about it.. and dont you think people like me who work hard to live in 0.0 will be leaving the game soon if people keep leaving 0.0 to make more money in rens a .9 system with basicly no risk? what about thos subscriptions... :/ I just proved that mining in 0.0 is even less dangerous than doing lvl4 missions in .9, Instas, logoffs, safespots, local, pilots in space(map). now, either stop whining, or prove me wrong. Oh, and btw, why not make 0.0 belt rats switch targets? would be fun(wouldn't be enough tho). ------------------- :: finite horizon :: killboard :: :: bio :: blog ::
Jakk Graiseach	Posted - 2005.03.11 13:52:00 - [15] Originally by: Vex Seraphim this was removed -zhuge /seconded Don't whine - adapt or quit... -- All accounts cancelled - have fun guys
Nostradamu5	Posted - 2005.03.11 14:14:00 - [16] Hey Vex, IÆve just noticed you look a lot like me except you got a freaky blue thing going on, youÆre almost hansom mostly because IÆm sort of a pretty boy if I must say so myself. Now I know why I was never made a MOD IÆm too pretty and most of those others need to be double bagged I wonÆt mention any names but you know who you are. Stop griping about server instability and go buy an EVE mug! Additionally with the purchase of each mug you will receive two(2) invisible Elves.
Lovelost	Posted - 2005.03.11 14:16:00 - [17] Originally by: Naverin Vex.. please dont ruin this threat.. its constructive on how to fix the level 4 agent mission issue thats ruining the game.. just because your an empire carebear doesnt mean you should make just as much isk per hour as i can in 0.0 mining. 'I want a bigger reward then some assmonkey who can sit in Rens in a raven and beat the **** outta level 4 agent missions for nearly the same isk an hour as i can mining in harsh 0.0 conditions.' Lol, I'm just curious how someone calling people assmonkeys constitutes a 'constructive thread'? Followed up by someone else calling anyone who disagrees an 'empire carebear.' I trade, and I fly level level 4 missions, and I have never seen 15m/hour; I also have lost 4 ravens since Exodus (0 prior to that), and have about the same amount of cash as I did at the beginning of Exodus. I did Silence the Informant last night for 3 hours (including loot gathering); 3-4m in bounties, 2m in loot and another 1.2m in mission payment sounds like a little over 2.5m/hour. I'm not sure where people get this ridiculous 'people are making 15-25m/hour' nonsense. Perhaps some elite level 4 mission runners are, or maybe some do over the course of a certain mission or set of missions, but the majority of us do not over the vast majority of mission types. To be honest, I don't see why everyone cares so much. I don't whine about the players in 0.0 who for ages have made 25m/hour mining high level ores and have billion+ bank accounts, I don't whine about people who spend their time gate-ganking, I don't whine about escrow-scammers, or alt-pirates and I don't see why anyone else needs to whine about someone else catching a break. But hey, that's just me.;)
Pollie	Posted - 2005.03.11 14:17:00 - [18] Originally by: Naverin no one said they have to do the level 4 missions in 0.0.. they can sit on their level 3's in empire.. And devs have this funny thing about not doing anything untill someone makes enough commotion about it.. and dont you think people like me who work hard to live in 0.0 will be leaving the game soon if people keep leaving 0.0 to make more money in rens a .9 system with basicly no risk? what about thos subscriptions... :/ Ask yourself this question - 1)Does the fact that others are making ISK ruin your enjoyment of the game? Answer should be NO Give yourself a change of pace. It's not all about ISK..... Get a cheap ship and go blow up some ore thieves in empire. Go sightseeing. Get a covert ops frig and cloak it, go bump mission runners out of warp alignment. Try to find the bargain of the decade on escrow. Go look for a way into Jove space. Go challenge a badass pirate to a 1v1 Just stop whining cos others have a higher amount of "ISK" than you
Lovelost	Posted - 2005.03.11 14:20:00 - [19] Well, my first attempt at posting looked kinda weird, my apologies that the 'quote' thing indented my whole message, not just what I was attempting to quote. Some day I'll figure out this forum.
Lovelost	Posted - 2005.03.11 14:21:00 - [20] Originally by: Pollie Originally by: Naverin no one said they have to do the level 4 missions in 0.0.. they can sit on their level 3's in empire.. And devs have this funny thing about not doing anything untill someone makes enough commotion about it.. and dont you think people like me who work hard to live in 0.0 will be leaving the game soon if people keep leaving 0.0 to make more money in rens a .9 system with basicly no risk? what about thos subscriptions... :/ Ask yourself this question - 1)Does the fact that others are making ISK ruin your enjoyment of the game? Answer should be NO Give yourself a change of pace. It's not all about ISK..... Get a cheap ship and go blow up some ore thieves in empire. Go sightseeing. Get a covert ops frig and cloak it, go bump mission runners out of warp alignment. Try to find the bargain of the decade on escrow. Go look for a way into Jove space. Go challenge a badass pirate to a 1v1 Just stop whining cos others have a higher amount of "ISK" than you Now this is what I would call a constructive post, far more than most on this subject.
Vex Seraphim	Posted - 2005.03.11 14:25:00 - [21] To everyone who thinks that lvl4 agents should be in 0.0 take a look at the downside: The 0.0 lvl4 agent systems will be quickly grabbled by alliances, and it will come down to whoever has the bigger blob - will get the lvl4 content. Make this game more about blobs! yay! ------------------- :: finite horizon :: killboard :: :: bio :: blog ::
Bazman	Posted - 2005.03.11 14:38:00 - [22] Level 4 Missions rule, made approximately 400 Million in 2 days, both through rewards, Drone Mineral loot, and a rare module that people pay silly amounts for. I also have enough high end minerals to add another 100 Million to that total. All from running one agent in 0.9 space.
lythos miralbar	Posted - 2005.03.11 14:39:00 - [23] eeeeeeerrrm... hows about they just make lvl4 missions harder so they cant be done solo?????
Iratus Caelestis	Posted - 2005.03.11 14:54:00 - [24] As stated above the problem with Lvl 4 missions isn't that the reward is too high, it's that they are breaking their design brief and are now relatively easy to do on your own. If the reward was kept to spec and split between 3-5 people doing missions then the renumberation would be fair. If the raven didn't deal instant death to all small ships and benefit from all the plus points of shield boosting in a mission (High Tanking for long enough to kill the scramblers and webs) then people would be doing the missions together again and all would be good in the world. As it is the missions will ruin the game as the economy is getting out of whack very quickly with people able to make 500-1,000 million in a week with a negligable risk.
Andrue	Posted - 2005.03.11 14:58:00 - [25] Originally by: Naverin I PROPOSE all level 4 agents be moved to 0.0 locations .. They certainly shouldn't be in hi-sec but I think it might help if some of them were left in low-sec. Low-sec space has always been kind of pointless. I wonder sometimes if CCP originally intended that to be where the carebears would mix it with the PvPers? It would tie in with the principal of choke points because then those would become a kind of arena entrance. IMO there should be a gradually sloping of fund acquisition from Empire (slowest) to 0.0 (fastest) and this should reflect the security rating. The problem is that Eve became too polarized and then the devs went and unbalanced it. Quote: Having such an easy money making ability in a .9 where you can sit in a beginer corp and NEVER HAVE ANY PROBLEMS just makes me sick. Certainly irritating but the devs have already acknowledged it so we have to wait to see what they intend to do. Ultimately it's their game and they can turn it into The Sims in Space if they want. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Andrue	Posted - 2005.03.11 15:02:00 - [26] Originally by: V2GBR Look as always the good empire hugging carebears get the good stuff it will not change as they whine louder than the rest. I agree that it needs changing as the risk vs reward is bollox ! There is no risk. You're missing half the point there. Eve is very much about risk v. reward but why do so many people keep saying "increase the risk". Why not decrease the reward? Carebears shouldn't be forced into PvP - they will just leave the game. What is needed is a reduction in the reward so that, yes, you can be a carebear if you want but you'll always be a poor carebear barely scraping a living. Let the PvPers (or at least those willing to mix with PvPers) become uber rich. There's enough of a mix of people to ensure that we all get what we want then. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.03.11 15:22:00 - [27] Edited by: Jim Steele on 11/03/2005 15:23:32 lvl 4 missions arnt the problem here its the fact that .0 is not rewarding enough, i think yes lvl 4's should be moved to lower sec space (or at least the best agents). The best caldari navy agent is in a 1.0 system which seems kind of pointless to me. I think if lvl4's were moved to <.5 and the bountys in belt spawns in 0.0 made better, i mean ive ratted in .0 and the best rats i could find were 750k ones, mabye i wasnt looking in the right area but missions regulary chuck out 1-2mil bses's and lots more of them then youd find in a belt. Id say low sec space is missing something and gate camps are no fun if you want to have more people in .0 get rid of gates completely and have jumpdrives, similar to how frontier worked so you could "catch up" with a jumping ship or see if a ship was about to jump in system. Of course pirates will complain if they cant gate camp but there must be another way of pulling people out of warp, eg by using mobile warp disruptors between gates to pull them out of warp, at the moment they dont really work. Eve needs more ways of piracy besides blob wars and gate camps as well as perhaps a dedicated randsom system where isk could be given to a neutral party befor pirates gank you, i.e. pay the bounty and it gets held until you are released. Again i agree with the poster that having a unlimited supply of npc bs'es in empire is a bad idea. I wouldnt go so far as to say move them to .0 but something needs to be done to re address the balance, i cant be arsed with .0 as it takes too long to get there, they arnt enough stations and to get your own station you have do nothing but mine to keep it fueled in conclusion the only real way to make an exodus to 0.0 possible is to make pos slightly easier to maintain, move lvl 4 missions to the fringes of .0 space and make it easer to get into .0 without having choke points everywhere. Death to the Galante
danneh	Posted - 2005.03.11 15:51:00 - [28] Or, you agent runners might find this a bit harsh, remove loot and bountys of mission rats. Then you will only get isk from your agents reward. :>
Toran Mehtar	Posted - 2005.03.11 16:18:00 - [29] Originally by: danneh Or, you agent runners might find this a bit harsh, remove loot and bountys of mission rats. Then you will only get isk from your agents reward. Gee, that's a great idea. Let me guess, your next suggestion will be to 'fix' the raven's uberness as a mission runner by removing its launcher slots. I'm still wondering how many times people are going to say lvl 4 missions > 0.0 without even considering that 0.0 is the problem and not the missions. At least Jim has the right idea.
Trinelise	Posted - 2005.03.11 16:30:00 - [30] - Introduce Dreadnought sized rats in 0.0. - Make player dreadnoughts use a lot of high end ores and put them in the game fast. - Make level 2 ammo use morphite. - Dreadnought kill mission from pirate agents. All this is stuff would make living in 0.0 more interesting for the non PvP crowd.

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