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... 72% Penalty on explosion radius? is ccp on crack?

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Ager Agemo Saturn Reaper 106	Posted - 2012.10.05 21:47:00 - [1] - Quote OK so reading the revisited future tweaks for missiles i read that FURY and RAGE missiles will get a penalty of ******* 72% for explosion radius? i might be understanding it completely wrong... but dosnt that automatically make any T2 missile completely and utterly useless? i mean with that penalty Rage torps will have an explosion radius of 800 meters? HAM will have explosion radius of 400 meters and rage rockets an explosion of 200 meters, even with maxed skills, rigs, implants and ship bonuses, a rage torp would still have a explosion radius of around 400 meters @.@ i m understanding CCP Fozzie stats wrong? and to make it worse, drop the tracking computers bonus...
Gypsio III Chemikals Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 391	Posted - 2012.10.05 21:54:00 - [2] - Quote Rage/Fury have always been designed to be used against a ship size larger, this isn't new.
Goldensaver Vorbild Industries Inc. State Section 9 17	Posted - 2012.10.05 21:59:00 - [3] - Quote Gypsio III wrote: Rage/Fury have always been designed to be used against a ship size larger, this isn't new. In fact, as you note, future Rage torps will have an explosion radius smaller than that of current T1 torps. Heh. Yeah, but void in cruisers is more than capable against BC's, as is hail, and conflagration. But now rage HAM's are only for BS's? Rage rockets for killing only cruiser+?
Ager Agemo Saturn Reaper 106	Posted - 2012.10.05 22:00:00 - [4] - Quote Gypsio III wrote: Rage/Fury have always been designed to be used against a ship size larger, this isn't new. i though the description mean they were mean to be at least used against your own size, but either way, so now T2 torps are anti capital ship weapons?
serras bang Lucien Coven 28	Posted - 2012.10.05 22:22:00 - [5] - Quote i was having a rage of this but the spreed sheet says its only going up about 10 its 72% of t1 not 72% of current apparently
Ager Agemo Saturn Reaper 106	Posted - 2012.10.05 22:30:00 - [6] - Quote reads notes i think i m going to get sick... DID they actually plan on reducing torpedo range even further!? WHAT THE ... oh for fucks sakes... this is beyond ridiculous! even Rockets will have longer range than torpedos!
Alx Warlord Security Task Force 174	Posted - 2012.10.05 22:38:00 - [7] - Quote Unguided missiles would need allot more Damage to compensate these changes... I have to do some tests on sisi... This concerns me, I fly a HAM Legion.... I will probably have to sell it soon.... [Discussion] - New POS system ( Construction Block Built - Starbasecraft) <<< Please CCP read this!
Ager Agemo Saturn Reaper 106	Posted - 2012.10.05 22:54:00 - [8] - Quote Alx Warlord wrote: Unguided missiles would need allot more Damage to compensate these changes... I have to do some tests on sisi... This concerns me, I fly a HAM Legion.... I will probably have to sell it soon.... i think on their pursuit to curve the drake usage, CCP is overdoing it way too much on the missiles area, i already stopped using torpedo boats and cruise missile boats since a winmatar maelstrom proved to be much more effective on all areas. to the point it even did better damage than a maxed skills CNR. all the buffs and changes looked allright and acceptable until this last batch of changes, it sort of upsets me that CCP is not rebalancing battleships yet, but is already touching their weapons at least on the caldari side.
Sigras Conglomo IMPERIAL LEGI0N 228	Posted - 2012.10.05 23:01:00 - [9] - Quote wow, you guys should read all of the notes on the changes first and then comment second. Yes, rage HAMs have 72% more explosion radius than a T1 HAM, but if you read the WHOLE change, they also want to give guided missile percision to HAMs/Torpedoes/rockets Also, my short range void ammo also gives me a tracking nerf, and must be used at close range; the difference is that my short range affects my damage too, and my guns cost cap, and have even less range than your missiles.
Ager Agemo Saturn Reaper 106	Posted - 2012.10.05 23:05:00 - [10] - Quote Sigras wrote: wow, you guys should read all of the notes on the changes first and then comment second. Yes, rage HAMs have 72% more explosion radius than a T1 HAM, but if you read the WHOLE change, they also want to give guided missile percision to HAMs/Torpedoes/rockets Also, my short range void ammo also gives me a tracking nerf, and must be used at close range; the difference is that my short range affects my damage too, and my guns cost cap, and have even less range than your missiles. oh yes i read it all, believe me, but the problem is that Torpedos are already a FLAWED! weapon that its near impossible to use against other ships and the changes are downright ridiculous. your VOID L has longer range than your VOID M right? if you read rage torps are getting shorter range than Rage HAMs, also projectiles dont use capacitor either so your point is not very relevant. having a 25% tracking penalty is acceptable, but to add a penalty to a weapon that is already useless and to top it all, to make it have shorter range then the smaller size version, borders the line of stupidity. the bonus for that skills way too small to even try to compensate the huge explosion of the large weapons, i believe HAM are still usable, but Torps are becoming a weapon that can only be used against a class of ship you only see on 1 place, blobs.
Goldensaver Vorbild Industries Inc. State Section 9 18	Posted - 2012.10.06 00:06:00 - [11] - Quote Eeh, just looked at the actual numbers. It's fine for HAM's, so long as your target is a BC, Rockets it doesn't even make a difference for. The only issue I see pertains to exactly the offender the OP pointed out. Torps. 650m Explosion radius. Against a Battleship with an above average signature radius of 450m, that's only 69% of full damage you're dealing, not even taking into effect speed. Tracking on guns is just fine against other battleships, but torps... well... torps. The average sig radius of 425m of the battleships gives about 65% effectiveness. And sure, we'll say these were meant JUST for killing ship classes above, but the only thing you'll be using these on at this point is Caps and Supercaps.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1709	Posted - 2012.10.06 08:36:00 - [12] - Quote As somebody who couldn't care less about missiles and considers kiting t3s to be BiHnuch.... I support this nerf service announcement.
Gypsio III Chemikals Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 391	Posted - 2012.10.06 10:16:00 - [13] - Quote The stupidity in this thread... Current torp explosion radii: T1/CN/Jav 450 m; Rage 650 m. Future radii with GMP: T1/CN/Jav 337.5 m; Rage 580.5 m. What are you idiots complaining about?
Ager Agemo Saturn Reaper 107	Posted - 2012.10.06 15:55:00 - [14] - Quote Gypsio III wrote: The stupidity in this thread... Current torp explosion radii: T1/CN/Jav 450 m; Rage 650 m. Future radii with GMP: T1/CN/Jav 337.5 m; Rage 580.5 m. What are you idiots complaining about? are you taking onto account that despite adding the skill bonus they are adding an aditional nerf to compensate it thus rendering it useless? also that still dosnt fixes the range issue.
tankus2 Endless Destruction Against ALL Anomalies 58	Posted - 2012.10.06 16:15:00 - [15] - Quote I think he's asking for someone to get numbers out, something I'm too lazy to actually crunch but would like to point out. Where the science gets done
Doddy Excidium. Executive Outcomes 252	Posted - 2012.10.06 16:24:00 - [16] - Quote You are right, that 62.5m of extra range rage hams get is clearly game breaking. Anyway you can blame the missile users crying over tds for you not getting tracking enhancers, karma. On the sig rad thing GMP is going to cancel out the changes so really the damage boost is giving rage torps a buff and non rage torps are going to actually be better so really its a nonsense. Torps are getting buffed, they will get more buffed when tes are added, be happy.
Recoil IV New Eden Renegades Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns 27	Posted - 2012.10.06 17:27:00 - [17] - Quote brace yourselves,winter riots and mass unsubscribing is coming
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 887	Posted - 2012.10.06 19:02:00 - [18] - Quote Doddy wrote: You are right, that 62.5m of extra range rage hams get is clearly game breaking. Anyway you can blame the missile users crying over tds for you not getting tracking enhancers, karma. On the sig rad thing GMP is going to cancel out the changes so really the damage boost is giving rage torps a buff and non rage torps are going to actually be better so really its a nonsense. Torps are getting buffed, they will get more buffed when tes are added, be happy. Turret users would have plenty of reasons for being upset over TD affecting missiles as well. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem
HELLBOUNDMAN The Proletarii 113	Posted - 2012.10.06 22:56:00 - [19] - Quote https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=warning&l=http%3a%2f%2fdocs.google.com%2fspreadsheet%2fccc%3fkey%3d0AtfS55wysRHHdGQzQjBoeVRSUFRQVjF3QV84S1d2SFE&domain=google.com That is a link to a spread sheet showing the stats of the effected missiles both before and after. Torp exp radius for rage is MASSIVE. However, he has also stated that when the time comes bs class missiles will probably get rebalanced again. Just to note, fury missiles will now have the same range as precision. Also, guided missile precision will now effects all missile types and unguided missiles are going to be redefined as they're not unguided obviously.
Doddy Excidium. Executive Outcomes 252	Posted - 2012.10.06 23:35:00 - [20] - Quote HELLBOUNDMAN wrote: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=warning&l=http%3a%2f%2fdocs.google.com%2fspreadsheet%2fccc%3fkey%3d0AtfS55wysRHHdGQzQjBoeVRSUFRQVjF3QV84S1d2SFE&domain=google.com That is a link to a spread sheet showing the stats of the effected missiles both before and after. Torp exp radius for rage is MASSIVE. However, he has also stated that when the time comes bs class missiles will probably get rebalanced again. Just to note, fury missiles will now have the same range as precision. Also, guided missile precision will now effects all missile types and unguided missiles are going to be redefined as they're not unguided obviously. Oh, and rage torp exp velocity is going up to 774.. This means that a torp anything is useless unless you only use javelin , t1, or navy... Also, since they're making fury and javelin the same range no one will ever use anything but navy ammo on guided missiles You don't actually understand any of this do you. Exp radius is going up, not velocity, but as GMP reduces it by 5% per level the increase will be cancelled out (at level 4 it will be slightly worse, level 5 slightly better). Admittedly pure torp chars (bombers i guess) who haven't trained GMP will have some skilling to do but i guess they will be fine with that since thier normal torps are getting very buffed at the same time. A single painter mitigates the exp radius of rage on a bs in any case and you shouldn't be using rage against anything smaller (with GMP normal torps are going to be v nice v bcs esp drakes). So against their intended target rage torps are going to do better damage than currently with a very small loss of range, t1/faction/javelin are going to do far better against sub bs.
HELLBOUNDMAN The Proletarii 113	Posted - 2012.10.07 00:01:00 - [21] - Quote Doddy wrote: You don't actually understand any of this do you. Exp radius is going up, not velocity, but as GMP reduces it by 5% per level the increase will be cancelled out (at level 4 it will be slightly worse, level 5 slightly better). Admittedly pure torp chars (bombers i guess) who haven't trained GMP will have some skilling to do but i guess they will be fine with that since thier normal torps are getting very buffed at the same time. A single painter mitigates the exp radius of rage on a bs in any case and you shouldn't be using rage against anything smaller (with GMP normal torps are going to be v nice v bcs esp drakes). So against their intended target rage torps are going to do better damage than currently with a very small loss of range, t1/faction/javelin are going to do far better against sub bs. Putting velocity and not radius was accidental.
Ager Agemo Saturn Reaper 107	Posted - 2012.10.07 04:48:00 - [22] - Quote Allthough i agree that TDs affecting all the weapons was not exactly... a good idea, i believe what could have worked would have been an alternate ewar module to affect missiles and keep the tracking computers for missiles, nonetheless seeing some of the math you guys have put out, i will hope they do actually decide to look at BS missile weapons in the future and fix some of the weird inconscistencies (not quite sure how to type that word... not my language...). but since i already have GMP maxed i m thinking maybe i will be able to use a legion/tengu to replace a golem, since either got the same missile range as the marauder if not more... now to complain about marauders being ******* crappy...
Gypsio III Chemikals Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 393	Posted - 2012.10.07 09:44:00 - [23] - Quote HELLBOUNDMAN wrote: Oh, and rage torp exp radius is going up to 774.. This means that a torp anything is useless unless you only use javelin , t1, or navy... Also, since they're making fury and javelin the same range no one will ever use anything but navy ammo on guided missiles No you fool, Rage torp explosion radius will be 580.5 m. You have bothered training GMP for all your HML carebearing, haven't you? The range issue for Rage is almost entirely irrelevant. Rage torps are basically only used against capitals and tackled, painted BS, and neither tend to run very fast. There may be some niche PVE issue, but I'd say that most people using Rage torps in PVE are Doing It Wrong because they don't understand the missile damage formula. Edit - missed out POS bashing with Rage Ravens, that's a legitimate use. Ah, just use CN, it's no big deal.
HELLBOUNDMAN The Proletarii 113	Posted - 2012.10.07 16:38:00 - [24] - Quote Gypsio III wrote: HELLBOUNDMAN wrote: Oh, and rage torp exp radius is going up to 774.. This means that a torp anything is useless unless you only use javelin , t1, or navy... Also, since they're making fury and javelin the same range no one will ever use anything but navy ammo on guided missiles No you fool, Rage torp explosion radius will be 580.5 m. You have bothered training GMP for all your HML carebearing, haven't you? The range issue for Rage is almost entirely irrelevant. Rage torps are basically only used against capitals and tackled, painted BS, and neither tend to run very fast. There may be some niche PVE issue, but I'd say that most people using Rage torps in PVE are Doing It Wrong because they don't understand the missile damage formula. Edit - missed out POS bashing with Rage Ravens, that's a legitimate use. Ah, just use CN, it's no big deal. Was the derogatory comment necessary? Anyway, POS bashing is a concern, but like you stated can be solved by using navy. As far as missions, truthfully this will make rage more viable for missions with angels and other missions where the bss get in close range. Oh, and I have over 8 mill sp in missiles with just about all support skills to 5. Unfortunately the hml nerf is going to kick the crap out of my tengu, which is the most effective lvl 4 missiles boat in the game. 1 because it's OP and 2 because all missile boats including the raven arent that effective

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