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Tennotsukai
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Posted - 2005.03.16 05:42:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Archbishop
You mistake my words Minmatar. While we have conducted trials on some Minmatar these are beasts who were set to be executed. They were given a chance at life and salvation rather then exeuction. Thus we in fact prolonged their lives. While a few subjects suffered various psychosomatic dysfunctions most showed a massive increase in scriptural aptitude after the implantation of the device.
Given the alternative of exeuction for these out of control animals we've again shown our humanity and generosity by providing them a way to avoid execution for their crimes and receive possible enlightenment all at once.
Clearly we are kind beyond measure.
Archbishop
You say that i'm twisting your words, yet your the one twisting your own words. And the only beasts in Eve are the Amarrians, you claim what you was doing ws a chance of life and salvation. We all know that they wasn't given a choice but instead forced, to endure this sickening act of human abuse. My betting is if given a real choice they would have told you where to stick that implant.
And how come you didn't try any of this on Amarrian prisoners set for execution? Maybe they was "misguided and strayed from the path." And needed to be retaught the scriptures, and brought back to the fold.
You say clearly that you are kind beyond all measure, when the truth is your cruelty knows no bounds, the SPCS is starting to sound more and more like the Khanid and their practices.
"scotty, i need more power to warp out."
"i canna give yer any more captain, the dilithium crystal was nerfed this morning.. yer just gonna have ta face it, we've been ganked." |
Dau Imperius
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Posted - 2005.03.16 08:34:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Archbishop
Edited by: Archbishop on 16/03/2005 01:36:48
3. Decreasing the recommended work shift minimum from 12 to 10 hours long as decided by the Slave Holder himself when the slaves have earned such by demonstration of positive behavior and study.
Archbishop
SPCS Director
Now that's a little better. It's a start in the right direction. Increase the sleep time a little as I suggested, and perhaps improve the food quality. Slave life will start to become much better then the misery the poor and destitue could ever live.
That should be your main goal: To show these non-Amarr that slavery isn't the cruel yolk the terrorists claim it to be.
True I'll never hold slaves myself, but once the guidelines are raised as such, you'll have absolute proof that slaves are better off then living as bums in poverty in the Republic. True it is still slavery, but won't be a death sentance either with the old ways.
I may not be loyal to Amarr Religion, and ideals of scriptures and such, but I am loyal to the Empire itself. Once the Empire can adapt, we will be able prosper into a new golden age, above the Republic or Federation. Our last Emperor saw this...and I will keep his words true.
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Haratu
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Posted - 2005.03.16 09:22:00 -
[33]
10hrs seem a reasonable maximum amount.
As for scriptures, i would reduce that to 2hrs a day with encouragement to study scriptures in their spare time.
I roleplay... there is this computer game called "Earth - The First Genesis" where i play a character in the early 21st century. |
KhanJohn
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Posted - 2005.03.16 14:53:00 -
[34]
im a little late in replying to this thread but i will refer you all to the last article publish by the matari tribune referring to the corruption and violent behaviour at SPCS sponsered stations such as Prosperity Station...as told by the escapee amarula...
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Ardor
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Posted - 2005.03.16 15:51:00 -
[35]
I am very pleased to see the development of this discussion. The guidelines of the SPCS now might find their way into the Khanid Kingdom, too. I see a very good chance that slave holders from the Empire and the Kingdom in future will exchange experience for the better of slave holders and for the better of our slaves. Because of the non-agressive method by the SPCS to talk about guidelines instead of trying to enforce laws made the SPCS not toothless but a lot more influential.
I would like to make a few comments on the latest arguments/points in this thread.
Originally by: Archbishop
I'm also pleased to announce our SPCS Scientists are nearing a new type of neuro implant. This breakthrough, if successful, will allow a Slave Holder to "dial in" the slave to scriptures.
The Khanid Kingdom is working on such devices for some time now. I am speaking about the transcranial microcontrollers made by the Caldari and currently mostly used inside gallente space. There are unlimited ways to code this microcontrollers. The gallente for sure use the microcontrollers in a different way than amarrian holders. *thinks about this typical Gallente and smiles* I suppose an exchange of knowledge with Dark Amarrian scientists could be fruitful for the research work of the SPCS. Unfortunatly the transcranial microcontrollers currently are to expensive. We both have similar interests and I might be interested to buy devices from the CVA/SPCS if their research is successfull.
Another point point I want to talk about is the point of the minimum work shift since there seems to be a greater interest on this point.
Originally by: Archbishop
3. Decreasing the recommended work shift minimum from 12 to 10 hours long as decided by the Slave Holder himself when the slaves have earned such by demonstration of positive behavior and study.
Once again I think this guideline of the SPCS is good for most cases. Remember the SPCS guideline is talking about a minimum time. Finally its a decision that must be made because of individuel circumstances. Most of my slaves can work 12 hours a day or longer without a problem because their work is easy. They dont need to think a lot and they are physical strong enough to do this work over a long time. The rule 'a healthy slave can work harder' once again is true. The 12 hour shift is also somehow 'natural' from an economic point of view. On the other hand I have slaves that work under very hard conditions like extreme heat etc. For this slaves a 10 hour shift would be a very quick death. While the guideline of the SPCS is very good in 99% there are exceptions.
My approach to this problem is a different one. Because of the experience my family made with slaves over several generations we know how long slaves can work each day in a certain job to reach a certain still productive age. For several hundred years the slaves on our tobacco farms work under similar/same conditions. This has been tested and found to be very productive. On the other hand the Bruderschaft, like most other private corporations, are somehow new to production in space. Here we have to make experiments. Trial and error. The guidelines of the SPCS are a very good start for new beginners. Finally each holder must find his best compromise between health of the slaves and profit depending on individuel circumstances. Ny most advanced (enlightened) slaves in most cases reach an age they never could reach if they would live under conditions you have on Pator f.e.
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Hardin
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Posted - 2005.03.16 16:03:00 -
[36]
Thank you Ardor
You have demonstrated exactly why the SPCS exist and we welcome your feedback and input into the debate.
The SPCS exists to stimulate such debate which can open the eyes of Holders everywhere.
Yes the SPCS is toothless in that it cannot enforce its guidelines but the mere fact of the guidelines existence and debate around them will I am sure lead to a situation of mutual benefit to slaves and Amarr Holders...
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Lorna Doone
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Posted - 2005.03.16 19:24:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 16/03/2005 03:35:09
I believe you might find Lorna, that if you look at Amarran Law... you might be found to be wrong in that statement.
I believe under Amarran Law it would be similar to killing a cow... something that not even the Gallente Ban.
Which I may point out is something the SPCS is out to limit to slaves that deserve death only, and therefor is why they ask that slavers consider what they are doing before they kill slaves and file a report of why this was done so that only necessary killings will happen.
So, murder isn't murder as long as you take the precaution of first classifying the victim as cattle?
This is quite the PR job you're doing the Amarr empire, you know 
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"Meantime, all around me is violence and robbery, coarse delight and savage pain, reckless joke and hopeless death." |
Gaven Lok'ri
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Posted - 2005.03.16 19:39:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 16/03/2005 19:39:51
I merely point out that Amarr law and your law are not the same.
However If you read the rest of my post you might notice that I point out that the SPCS is attempting to make the Slaves' lot a bit better than the lot they have according to law, which has no penalties whatsoever for mistreating them, so that certain holders might reconsider killing their slaves for no reason other than personal anger, as has been seen here in the past.
Nobiscum Deus! Ave Doriam II! |
Lorna Doone
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Posted - 2005.03.16 21:01:00 -
[39]
Well, frankly I'm getting confused... On the one hand, Archbishop stated that the SPCS guidelines are there "so all can see the humanity and kindness of the Amarrian race." On the other hand, you seem to be saying that what you're trying to show is humanity and kindness as defined by Amarrian law.
Surely, if you want to convince the other societies that you're humane, you'd ensure that your minimum standards meet their minimum standards?
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"Meantime, all around me is violence and robbery, coarse delight and savage pain, reckless joke and hopeless death." |
Gaven Lok'ri
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Posted - 2005.03.16 22:07:00 -
[40]
Well considering that Gallente minimum standards are completely wrong and do such odd things as state that slavery in and of itself is wrong... I dont think we are working on their standards.
Rather we are working to make sure that slaves are treated well via the Emperors orders and that they will live to eventually become enlightened amarrans rather than all dieing for their heathen sins.
Gaven thinks and looks rather confused
Of course Amarr is Humane. I mean we did choose not to deal out to the fallen races the fate that they truely earned and instead took the Udorians, Ealur, Ni'kunni and Minmatar under our wing rather than utterly wipeing them out of existance.
How much more humane can you expect? We are dealing with criminals who have turned away from God here after all. It is for us to offer them a chance to repent of the sins of their past and eventually to carry their line back into the grace of God through toil and study.
If we kill our slaves then of course that cannot work, so the concept of killing slaves who are not completely irredeemable is indeed wrong as it is a waste of what will eventually become potental members of our Empire rather than heathens in need of help.
Really though? How can we become any more Humane than bringing back into Gods light the other races of this universe? And how can killing a slave who otherwise would accomplish nothing for our empire but trouble and is set on nothing but opposing God's will be a bad thing?
I tend to believe that no one is hopeless and dont tend to kill bad slaves myself... but It is an entirely understandable practice as by the very nature of thier crimes against God all slaves at some level are being given life as a gift.
Nobiscum Deus! Ave Doriam II! |
Talona
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Posted - 2005.03.16 22:57:00 -
[41]
The SPCS guidelines are indeed humane ... when compared to the real conditions.
I have seen the extent of Amarrian goodwill and caring in the sulfur mines of Inis-Ilix IV ... and in the scorched ruins of Starkmanir Prime.
This is the ugly unwashed reality of the empire you seek to defend; there is no enlightenment to be found in Inis-Ilix - only death and suffering.
If you belive your own propaganda I pity you slaver.
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DarkStar251
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Posted - 2005.03.17 05:09:00 -
[42]
Edited by: DarkStar251 on 17/03/2005 05:09:32
These guidelines as they stand, are far too restrictive. Next you will be telling me I am not allowed to fire my tachyons more regularly than once per hour for fear of harming the crystals.
My slaves are my property, and are as disposable as I deam them to be. They should be thanking me for the opportunity to serve.
3m3 of cargo space is far too much when you consider that I cannot accomodate more than 2 slaves in this space due to the 12/12 cycle. They are but animals with no possessions other than those that I grant them and have no need for such extravagent space.
This also does not take into account the transport of slaves, where a lower amount of space should be allowed for the duration of a journey, Most slaves enjoy such trips anyway as it can mean hours of time away from work. As such they would happily accept standing room only. If owned by an amarrian, this is also an ideal time for them to listen to readings from the holy scriptures.
I can only hope these pathetic slave hugging policies are not entered into full force.
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Dau Imperius
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Posted - 2005.03.17 07:19:00 -
[43]
Now this is a turn of events. A Non-Amarr who's worse a slaver then any I'd ever seen.
News flash Gallente: You're slave bait yourself. I'd suggest you get rid of your disgusting thinking before someone in Empire space decides you'd make a good slave.
Then you'd be thankful for these guidelines. Although I'd make an exception for you and treat you as an animal harem girl if you'd like. You squeal like a Minmatar Pig all you wish then.
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Sykonatiac
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Posted - 2005.03.23 16:15:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Aphoxema G
Someone without free will can not determine if they want free will. Someone who has lost free will therefore does not need free will, as by the basis that free will is only wanted by those with free will, and someone who does not have it can not want it.
Though semantecally, ethically, and objectively questionable; A slave with no free will is better a slave than free but still without choice.
A person who willingly becomes a slave, even through manipulation, still had decided on their own accord to become a slave.
A person who is forced into slavery and eventually fall clockwork of their captor will be likely broken of free will.
Any slave who still has free will would best express it in attempt to escape on their own, for imposing free will on one who doesn't have it or doesn't want it is disruptive to the natural result of previous events, and therefor further destructive to a person.
This leads to the basis that slaves should be left enslaved, in it's better to prevent anyone from becoming enslaved unwillingly in the future.
And these SPCS guidelines look Just Fine to me, but a cubic meter seems a little small for a person, especially if you have a desk and chair in it witch them.
For the Vitoc, the guide does not insist its use, it actually implies that further use should be carried RESPONSIBLY.
I'm not sure I agree with the free will thing. But, then again I'm not a slave. I've always had free will. Cause, if somehow I was captured and turned into a slave, I'd NEVER stop trying to escape. NEVER stop fighting. NEVER give up.
And the ones who don't know about free will should be given a chance, just because you don't have something, or don't know about it, does NOT mean you don't need it.
Just a few thoughts....
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Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2005.03.23 16:19:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Talona
The SPCS guidelines are indeed humane ... when compared to the real conditions.
I have seen the extent of Amarrian goodwill and caring in the sulfur mines of Inis-Ilix IV ... and in the scorched ruins of Starkmanir Prime.
This is the ugly unwashed reality of the empire you seek to defend; there is no enlightenment to be found in Inis-Ilix - only death and suffering.
If you belive your own propaganda I pity you slaver.
Perhaps you should investigate the way that the holders in the Star Fraction treat their slaves. I'm sure that they'd love to enlighten you.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Sykonatiac
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Posted - 2005.03.23 19:48:00 -
[46]
Originally by: DarkStar251
Edited by: DarkStar251 on 17/03/2005 05:09:32
These guidelines as they stand, are far too restrictive. Next you will be telling me I am not allowed to fire my tachyons more regularly than once per hour for fear of harming the crystals.
My slaves are my property, and are as disposable as I deam them to be. They should be thanking me for the opportunity to serve.
3m3 of cargo space is far too much when you consider that I cannot accomodate more than 2 slaves in this space due to the 12/12 cycle. They are but animals with no possessions other than those that I grant them and have no need for such extravagent space.
This also does not take into account the transport of slaves, where a lower amount of space should be allowed for the duration of a journey, Most slaves enjoy such trips anyway as it can mean hours of time away from work. As such they would happily accept standing room only. If owned by an amarrian, this is also an ideal time for them to listen to readings from the holy scriptures.
I can only hope these pathetic slave hugging policies are not entered into full force.
A gallente keeping slaves? Umm...are you a rare one, or do others keep slaves as well? If so, then, both the Gallente and Amarr empire are gonna go up in flames. I'm gonna do some research into this...
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