Why are you surprised that the gameplay of "a bunch of dudes emoting each other in a room" is not priority.

of course my idea of WIS social interaction would include barfights.

I find myself asking why a pod pilot would leave the womb-like comfort and safety of the pod to go EVA when he could just send a drone which he can control remotely.

Maybe in 10 years, maybe, or maybe if you hire 100 people to work on the FPS parts besides the current team. But ISK wise CCP cannot afford such things so it will have to cut from somewhere.

In all seriousness, I have always maintained that Avatar game play (if it ever included combat) needed to have a well designed hand to hand system. It would seem a no brainer for generating action in a security heavy High Sec station.

Make a plan and follow it through.

Read the whole devblog again, or the tldr I extracted for my sig, then think about how the gameplay of dudes emoting each other is frivolous and a waste of time.

don,t look in the mirror and reply a thread at he same time m8 ,it does strange things

Generally insulting stuff

hmmm no!!

why?

speculating until fanfest and be topic

yeah speculating does show interest
but we speculated and discussed WIS in multiple threads with devs
We are asked to put in ideas by the devs until the threads were taken over by trolls whining about emotes and barbies
and now to get some output from those discussions ,we have to wait until fanfest
bc it seems that fanfest is a better place to discuss ,then the threads the devs asked for and responded to


so for the few posters above this one , am i reacting as a bittervet no way
am i reacting ,like i am butthurt ? yes i do!!

Team Avatar was suddenly silenced by CCP after a lot of discussion here on this forum and a promise to show what they were doing.
And finally after the silence they say ,we won,t discuss this anymore ,wait until fanfest

Please forgive me for being pessimistic, but how exactly is this update any different to pre-Incarna stuff of 3-5 years ago?

What happens if (when) you get killed EVA? Do you jump back to your ship, or to your medical station.

Is it a full clone on the line here (my main's clones are f---ing expensive) or some cheaper EVA only version?

On a related note - what happens to your ship when you're EVA. If you jump back to your medical clone how do you get back to your ship. Etc.

Although I agree there are some FiS features that need addressing before any serious effort is put into avatar based gameplay, the two at the top of my list were Bounty Hunting, and POS rework. Now that the Bounty System is being addressed (and it looks amazing, by the way), I will be looking forward to the POS upgrades, but after that I have no major concerns about Eve... So it's time for something new and exciting. It's time for station wreck exploration.

Now that we have a much large community representative team, it would be really nice if perhaps one of them could get a dev to post an update post in here? Even if it's only a "we're still working on it, but nothing worth reporting" message, I want to hear it, just so I know they are in fact still working on it.

There has been a lot of support and chatter for/about Avatar based gameplay on the forums recently, and I think its about time we heard something.

were does it state after the DUST release?

What i make of it right now we are focusing on FIS until then WiS is remains dead

And with the FEW crybabies CCP is so afraid of ,WIS will never come

To create this will mean a considerable investment which will take time to put together and also a new focus for us just at a time when we as a company have another new game coming into the EVE Universe (yes DUST 514, I'm looking at you).

don,t forget the ones ,who cry for change and then rage about it when it is actually changed

there is little reason for the barbie whiners to respond in this thread,they got what they want.
too bad,but it is true

It also has nothing on the new targeting UI or cans being made by us, not NPCs. That just means any new Wis content will be small, not the main focus. But there may be more than zero.

You are the one trying to rewrite history there as if everyone wanted wis, and still a lot of people don't. This kind of posting of yours just makes me want to retract my original post of being in favor for doing this after iteration. You are not doing team avatar any service

CCP can do something about it though. They can hire more people, and take a gamble. Develop the tech, implement it. Worst case scenario, it'll be wasted on EVE but can be re-used for World of Darkness. This way, everyone is happy. FiS players keep enjoying EVE, and its development continues. WiS players get their WiS. And WoD is one step closer to release. Though it'll cost them to get this done, and breaking in new people is never quick.

Speaking of whining, I was wondering if I could interest you in some cheese? Contrary to what you might believe, there's a lot that needs to be brought up-to-date on the spaceship (i.e. existent) part of the game. Let CCP stabilize EVE and get Dust 514 running beyond test builds. Then we'll see what happens. You should take some solace in the fact that EVE is finally getting the support it needs to take the steps in getting to the development of avatar-based gameplay.

You do know that TA is prototyping gameplay right? Based on the lack of devblogs I assume they still need a great deal of time to figure it out, so wis is most likely years away.
The alternative would be TA to just banging out a useless zynga-esque dogshite social game that got got ripped off from EA. But apparently dudes are fine with that.

The more I hear about all the ideas being tossed around, the happier I get.

Then I cry myself to sleep because I know when I wake up, these things still won't be in the game.

Still, the idea that something is coming eventually is rather comforting...yet, sadly, it does not stop the tears.

Would the next few steps (within the year) have been better and added meaningful gameplay if everyone stayed quiet? Doubtful. In fact, I'd go with a very concrete "nope" for that one. Why? Look how long it took them to just prototype meaningful avatar-based gameplay, never mind actually go on and implement it. Look how long it took to get character creator alone working, and iron out major bugs in character creation and clothing. Even had they managed to add walking in stations within a year, how long would it have kept you entertained? Day? Week? I'd be bored of it within hours because there wouldn't be any reason to do ti, there'd be no gameplay involved. If they added games? Virtual game of chess within a virtual game? Kinda silly. And so on.

Very, very simple. Bang for your buck. Can they implement it? Yes. But how long will it take, at what cost, and will it pay off in subs? Not to mention that the whole Incarna thing wasn't just due to Incarna itself. If you search the old posts, you'll see it was a combination of multiple factors that triggered the meltdown.

Personally I was very much in favour of Incarna, based on the stuff that was shown years prior to Incarna's release. But when it became obvious that we'd get virtually no meaningful content from it, and it would take years more to get it going, very naturally people rebelled. If they told you today that ship rebalance will take 3 years, and in that time you'd see almost no changes to the game, would you be happy? Probably not. Too little bang for your buck. It's exactly the same with Incarna. That's really the only "beef" that many naysayers have with ambulation - it's not worth the price, currently.

CCP would show us ,If they had something interesting ,to calm down the WIS hating whiners and the ones who always whine ,when CCP changes something in this game

I was less argumentative in the forum discussions before ,but it seems CCP or any of the whiners cares about people who try to discuss in a normal manner.
Besides ,what is the use of making of constructive comments ,after CCP decided to remove the discussion from this forum and get it to some select ones at fanfest.
You can all go crazy about WIS here ,but CCP decided to ignore this forum and ignoring the discussion thread before this one.
They decided to ignore the ones who came up with a lot of good ideas and even the people who demand so called meaningful game play .

And if you find my remarks soul destroying,i am sorry for that .

fly safe

When/if the avatar exploration content comes out, do you think the controls will be designed to be played with a gamepad? I hate controlling third person viewed avatars with a mouse and keyboard...

I image scouting through wrecks in these new WiS style ruins to be like the Deadspace games. At least that's how I hope it will be. I can't wait.

I'd like to see more avatar content, but only if it presents me with new and creative ways to kill people.

It's a terrible, terrible idea and all avatar plans beyond maybe a poker minigame for us to gamble ISK on or something should be abandoned. No MMO has ever been successful at splitting the game between vehicles and avatars without at least one of those (and usually both) being very sub-par. Look at Pirates of The Burning Sea and Star Trek Online reviews that mention the on-foot game if you want to see what Eve reviews will look like if you do this. Please save yourself the lost subscriptions and me the trouble of being forced to play Darkfall and give up on this silly idea while you still can.

Edit: Where's Mittens? We need Jita burned again.

Nvm didn't check the date on the OP

I didn't say "no game", did I? I said "no MMO". Only one of those is an MMO at all and it's not a MMORPG like Eve, it's a MMOFPS. I probably should have added the 'RPG' part to "MMO", but I assumed it would be obvious what kind of MMO I meant because of the examples I used.

It's about the sandbox and thus giving enough sand and toys for everyone to build their own EVE.

So far it's way easier if you like to spend hours to asplode ships together with other people, and way harder if you play on your own or can't devote a lot of time to it.

But showing commitment and deliver a little was exactly what CCP did and what created the entire WiS mess.

They applied a serious amount of development resources and delivered something that had no impact on game play what so ever.

But it did have an impact on 20% of CCP's employees.

I find it unlikely that they will show any more commitment until they have something that actually adds to the game to deliver.

It has potential for the EVE Universe. Generally the people that are big pushers for WiS are more ... shall we say ... misaligned with EVE as a concept. I still believe the highest value can be seen when WiS is a separate, but integrated game client with it's own development team, revenue stream, etc. Similarly executed to Dust.

I have (had, until for some strange reason it was locked) what I thought was a well thought out suggestion thread on how to approach it. Listed in my signature if you're interested in reading it.

Sheep stuff...

As well as encouraging some old players back for something different, yes. I don't feel that needs to be on a different platform or even outside the current client. If it is possible to split a client so that it can switch its functionality from a FiS operation to a WiS operation, then I see that as the means to reduce the workload.

The avatar wouldn't play instead of the player. It would just spawn/despawn resources for avatar gameplay.

Didn't somebody claim that the barbie lover trollers were only fighting their own shadow or something? Take that back.

well, the dust forums have nothing on y'all for creating a threadnought

Are 221 pages enough for you?

And how about 29 pages at Features & Ideas?

Or 33 pages devoted to improving the CQ?

You bet we did much enough to tell CCP. My only consolation is to see that holy cow features are being delayed too: Modular POSes? HAH! Nullsec fixes? HAH-HAH!!

Misery loves company...

Stuff

uh how about i don't want to waste the extra 20 seconds it takes to load up a useless dogshit "feature" that is the cq.

Yeah I know right? why didn't Incarna launch with an off option? Is it so hard to understand that some of us are not barbie freaks?

CCP has enough unfinished content on their plate already that needs iterated.

Irrelevant stuff.

so being dogshite and useless does not count as a reason?

damn you getting desperate too

ok barbie lover, defend anything so you get another dude to emote with lol. just look at you trying to defend the merits of the cq.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=225455&find=unread
its just a bunch of rebalancing but it will shake things up, and christ i mean its not like we literally have people crying for ~new pants to dress up in.

If there weren't mega busy stations like Jita that would present lag issues, allowing Avatar movement and socialization on stations would be nice. Maybe even start with POS's. Introduce a new POS that allows a limited number of avatars (10-20) to meet and mingle to discuss Corp agendas.

To start with, I'd like maybe just the cockpit of ships to be made available to move around in with our avatars with maybe a cot in the corner where I can catch some Z's on long space hauls.

Come find myself, CCP Seagull or CCP Hellmar and come and ask questions about it during my presentation. I can talk to you about what I'd like to do and the other two are the people to pester about making more Avatar content a reality. I'm super keen to make some viable Avatar gameplay for EVE the problem at the moment as per the original posts is the resource requirements to do it properly whilst supporting the current EVE, DUST and WOD development.

Stuff

So CCP should only cater to the customers it already has at the cost of attracking new ones. Gotcha.

So you dont want non-hardcore players occupying other parts of your hardcore game (that you would never play anyhow, because you are too hardcore), and creating more revenue?

What is it with you freaks that think you can't still be all hardcore in your spaceships while CCP expands the game to cater to a wider audience?

Fear change much?

Heh, that's funny. After 4 years and 900 euros, i guess I would be deemed a part of their market by any company, but hey, you know better.

Frankly, I don't think that CCP can save EVE from a matherial POV. They're behind the power curve, facing x+1 deadly issues with only x time/resources. And now they don't even have the man who haves a plan. They keep improvising expansions out of random ideas and the game is not going nowhere. And that's not exciting; that's the way a game 10 years old dies before turning 15.

Sense

It's at the end of the large 16h video, if you want the prototyping video.

Stuff

I, along with most people who don't support it outright or are hesitant to do so, only care about the use of developer resources that it would take.

Let me tell you how companies and income streams work...actually, look it up. If you want to actually properly argue that WiS development can receive its own team based on its own projected revenue streams, then please do so. Until then, think before you type.

Right, but they seem to believe they can pound out ridiculous arguments on GD that basically equate to feet-stamping and breath-holding and THAT will make the difference.

I'm discussing the structure of how projects are undertaken. You can either start conversing on a relatively equal conceptual level as me, or you will just be ignored.

or you will just be ignored.

An idea.

I know some of my friends would play if there was Walking in Stations.

Nobody gives a **** what your friends think.

Someone was kind enough to post the prototype footage (here) and I have to say, looking beyond the unpolished state, that is genius!

To be honest, as it was shown in that demo, the gameplay still looks ridiculously boring and repetitive. Like much of EVE's other gameplay. Walking around dark corridors looking for stuff? Really? Are we back in 1998 now? Graphics aren't everything. I have no doubt CCP will be able to make this look graphically very attractive. But if the gameplay feels weak, and controls are awkward (and based on CQ controls, they will be), it won't make this an interesting thing to do. I'm sure most of us will try it, get bored within 30 mins and never go there again, same as we did with CQ. Unless of course they make it insanely profitable.

You also pointed out one of the potential flaws with the system. Where, if you dock, someone can uncloak and blow your ship to smithereens with impunity.

Anyway, I feel overall, the demo they showed so far was pretty weak. And, realistically, even if they started developing it right now, we probably won't see this for another year or two. And by then, we're looking at 2014 and 2015, where Star Citizen and Elite are probably out, next Blizzard MMO is already announced and everyone is salivating over it, etc., etc. The longer they wait with this, the less impressive it'll be by the time they finally do it. Look at Darkfall, when it was announced it looked pretty good and sounded darn amazing, but by the time they finally squeezed it out, it was graphically outdated and features no longer all that impressive either. Same thing could happen here. Let's face it, wandering around corridors picking up boxes and opening doors isn't exactly new gameplay - technically, all that existed in 1992 with Wolfenstein 3D. So what will CCP do to make it unique and worth it? And not something people will try for a single afternoon and then shrug it off and never touch it again.

CCP karkur is apparently picking up the pieces of Incarna that were left on the cutting room floor. So at least we know that the remaining clothing for the NeX and perhaps the sleeve tattoos are on someone's "to do" list. I'll just wait for news of progress from CCP karkur & friends.

Stop dragging this thread out of the grave.

Let it die, it is old and served its purpose.

Computer games don't run on imagination. Someone has to program in all the things.

That's because the latest B-plans were that you had to leave the station, fly to a site, then leave your pod and your ship and your crew behind and then get shot in the face by someone who arrived earlier. Failing that, you get to find a treasure chest with blingies inside and call it a day in case nobody shot your ship down while you were away playing Indiana Jones like an idiot. And all meanwhile your crew (3,000 guys in case you fly BS) just played cards and watched TV as their almighty capsuleer got shot in the face. It so much makes so much sense that my sense-o-meter is out of scale -or maybe the battery died?

Because, you know, there's nothing meaningful enough in opening a door and meeting people...

Actually, we do, and by lore there is a crew in all ships bigger than a shuttle.

When the wreck diving feature was under consideration there were three options for who went in: A crew member (being directed by you), a soft clone of you, or yourself. Only in the last option would you be unable to fight your ship if you got attacked.

What enters the exploration site:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1569956#post1569956

"We do have various ideas regarding death within a site as there will indeed be dangers for you to overcome, including other players. (if we, Team Avatar, get our way)

Here are some:

1. Death will be like the standard pod kill death but then that leads to the issue where your ship is still docked at the site.
2. You enter sites with a clone rather than your actual avatar.
3. You enter sites with crew members rather than clones."

There is. In the new player experience one of the first things said to the new player is "You are the ship's captain, you issue orders and your crew carries them out", or something like that.

Also there aren't clues that we have a power source in our ships, but then the capacitor wouldn't refill itself, would it?

Actually, dev lore keepers made up their minds click.

Look! That old horse got up again!

Somebody get a stick, it's ready to be beaten some more!

I guess I have only imagined that Hilmar said they have a plan for the next years...

During this year's Alliance Tournament, CCP played it smart and learned from their past mistakes - they did not hype anything at all (or I utterly missed it). No discussions about what their future ideas, plans, or visions are to be for either Dust or Eve. So could this be construed that CCP is going to let the games idle on their own merits? Or would they rather avoid the backlash of threads like this by not having to justify anything based upon some past hyped dream?

Based upon their past track record, I feel they want to keep quiet.

It makes little sense to have CCP developers spend much effort on Avatar work in EVE until the Carbon team in WoD has some really stable stuff to try to port back. They don't seem to be gearing up for a marketing push for this christmas, so likely will be a year yet at least before we see something there.

tell me again why eve is dying? tell me all the latest renditions of "because no emoting"

I would be interested in that link. Last I heard was that the code was "forked", which means they started from the same base as EVE but not bothering to commit any changes back to the original branch of the code. Some folk may view that as abandoning the Carbon engine but it shouldn't be.

If they've really chucked it out and started with ANOTHER custom engine, well they are working on a Duke Nukem release schedule then. I'd just write it off at that point.

We are able to report that the original idea of both EVE and the WoD MMO using a unified Incarna/Carbon engine is no more and hasn't been for some time.

Good examples that remind me of something couple of days ago. Let's say that CCP decided to make the WiS part as something that was optional for capsuleers and either low price or free to play for non-capsuleers (and essentially meant to be gateway drug for them in order to get them hooked to EVE and get them to acquire pilot license). Now, to get around the non-capsuleers could hire other players, or NPC transports. Either one could be destroyed by players and non-capsuleer would then be stranded at closest station or planet. Not only might there be hazards out there to overcome (environment, hostiles), but they might have to light a beacon, to which any other player could then respond to, pick up the stranded player and drop off at drop off point. Some suitable NPC faction would then issue ISK and standing reward. Sort of player initiated dynamic mission, which could even be extended to include wormhole space.

my own idea for wis is like an alley-oop in basketball but for podding, i suicide gank someone's avatar, which is equivalent of a podkill, my buddy or alt ambushes the victim again immediately upon clone awakening. a successful attempt will result in loss of skill points for the victims, something like that. intel on where the victim's clone is based at will be provided by hacking game of some sort. to avoid getting slam dunked by an alley-oop one should place their clones in a nullsec station or shift them around periodically. maybe a notification mail will be sent out alerting players that others are sniffing out where their clone is based at.

I assume so. It'd be impractical to remove it.

A separate chat would effectively make it an instance, really. I think we're all against that, right?

Nah, see, I troll people by not arguing with them. It's a meta thing.

the belief that threadviews somehow indicate support

In terms of unsubs, the real deal is what will CCP do to retain everyone who would rather play SC in the event that SC actually delivers. And certainly the derelict exploration looks like it's stepping on CCP's toes...

When SC has failed to destroy EVE or deliver a comparable playable game 12 months from now, will the SC zealots be crying about that failure here, or on the SC forums?

I thought espousing EVE's demise using CCP's forums was considered rumor mongering.

Also Dust 514 is based on the Carbon engine

Woops, you are correct. My bad.

I do suggest you read the rest of it though.

I vaguely remembering there being an entire threadnaught about it at some point.

Maybe you didn't play when Incarna was released. WiS and microtransactions are tied together and both are bad for the game.

Here's the best thing, though. Considering how successful the game has been since CCP decided to refocus on real Eve content there's no need for them to worry about WiS or microtransactions. Everybody wins!

In a subscription game it's the only metric that matters. I don't know why people keep wanting to ignore it.

If they scrapped their current plan and went all in on WiS and it caused most of the subscribers to stop giving CCP money would you count that as a success?

Your problem is asserting that WiS would increase subs when past history indicates, rather clearly, that it has the opposite effect.

The only time in the history of Eve that subscription count went down was when WiS was released.

Based on the complete failure of DUST and the fact that WoD is still vaporware do you honestly believe CCP is capable of adding meaningful WiS to Eve? And even if, by some miracle, they were would it worth having them neglect spaceship content again to appease a small group of people who can't live without it?

And if you think I'm in the minority of players you might want to scroll up and look at the graph again. Or just read back through this thread...there are a few dozen people at most who just can't accept that Eve doesn't need emotes or dance parties to be a great game.

Maybe you guys can petition CCP to rename this thread:

"Star Citizen and the future of our prototype"

am an troll /me r.etard face

Well, yea, I'm sure it will not go entirely unnoticed... but still, I think there could be done more.

Tweet/email Hilmar?

Send CCP door keys in the mail?

Thanks for the email!

CCP has always been excited about avatars in the EVE Universe, but it is currently not on the roadmap. And when we do put it on the roadmap, it is unlikely to go directly into EVE Online as you know it now, for a number of technical and practical reasons. But we now of course have the "EVE Universe" that can host more than one game - so what you want to look for is game announcements in the future rather than full avatar gameplay crammed into EVE Online the spaceship game - and CCP Hellmar is the guy to poke about it! :)

/Seagull

Amateurism can only float your boat drakkar so far, apparently. These are the guys we are giving our monies to and putting our hopes on...

Especially since time and time again CCP have been told to be clear and unambiguous in their communications with players.

The lack of communication and transparency can be quite frustrating. Managers tend to hide things from the staff and are more reactive than proactive. The company has asked for trust yet has done nothing but hide facts and information from the staff to create a level of distrust and anxiety never seen before.

That WiS demo cost them 20% layoffs

I'm sure there will be claims like that made, but personally I don't put any stock in them. Not for quite a few years, at least.
Eventually, technology will get to the point where WIS is a "why haven't they done it yet?" feature, and then it might start having an effect, but that's a ways off. Until then, WIS is something lots of people want, but it won't hurt the game to not have.

However, I'm not saying it won't benefit the game either. WIS is nigh-guaranteed to bring in extra subscribers, and making existing players happy is almost never bad. It has the ability to be a near-unique selling point, and if done properly could contribute immensely to gameplay and general atmosphere.

So no, I don't think there will be a disaster because of it, but really, after Incarna WIS can only go up. They've got the foothold with CQ; the awkward bit is done. From here they've got a lot of improvements to go after, and not really any way to make it worse.

The idea has always been to procedurally generate content from set pieces, think of the way a boardgame like Warhammer Quest works. It's an easily extensible way of working that also lets you get high quality art in which can be a problem with purely procedural content. Generally though I'd of liked to have some rhyme and reason to layouts so you could enter a structure or ship and know what area you were in and have a good likelihood of knowing where you wanted to go in relation to it.

Sadly, as per the original post, we're not actively working on avatar exploration at the moment. :(

Maybe because there's a significant difference between "no plan to ever implement this" and "currently no plan to implement this".

FYP.

/A fool and their money....

Sorry that the truth is "dumb" and that you have no other recourse but to name-call and then block me simply because you have no valid argument.

Players who argue and espouse that a space toilet in a pre-alpha game is some kind of big achievement that reflects on how that game will eventually turn out, isn't exactly the toad's chode either.

/or based in reality.

Please add a option to remove the WiS crap from the EvE Online client, uses too much HD space.

Um, O.K. whatever you are getting on about, it was lost on me. Go back a few pages where the whole "space toilet" was proclaimed as such a big deal by Ishtanchuk, who then later stated that it was somehow an indicator of how awesome SC is going to be because it was done pre-alpha.

That option already exists my friend.
Click on the name below the player's portrait to the left, and select "Hide Posts"

As for people ranting about this coming expansion being ****, well it already has more content than Odyssey had. Odyssey was a pile of **** and this expansion is going to be significantly better, at least if CCP doing start ******* up from here on. That said, I do hope there will be more, and this isn't it... otherwise it will feel like just a patch. A better patch than Odyssey, but still a patch...

And while I know plans have changed and there's other work to be done and blah blah blah, I can't be the only one who finds it just a little bit strange how a pretty solid company of 10 great years can't (or won't?) figure out how to also make progress on something they started talking about years ago.

WTB - Thorax codpiece.

Or would that qualify as something other than a codpiece?

Deadspace.

I'll keep repeating the truth until somebody proves it's not.

Customization is the maximum we can expect to get at the moment, as the Hallelujah Plan turns to be about nullsec space only.

(No, it won't be nullsec as in sov-space, rather some sort of player-spawned space pockets accessible only through player-made gates; anyway, it will be 0.0 security and likely will be quite away and inaccessible from hisec).

..Hey, this Eve game looks pretty cool. Spaceships, sweet! Thousand of solar systems to explore and conquer! Space combat! Oh man, Wormholes! Now, if they just added planets we can walk on and Evac Suits and /dance emotes and fashion, this would be a pretty awesome game!

Cheese and Rice.

CCP: /History Channel Guy - Spaceships!

Eve the UNIVERSE is more then just spaceships. Its a long history and very content rich. I've read he booms and the chronicles. Its awesome, and I love it.

BUT!

Eve the VIDEO GAME is about spaceships. All the other stuff is just not practical. Sorry.

I have to laugh. CCP being CCP. Lets do WiS! Lets make a FPS! Lets make PANTS for the players avatars! Holy cow lets make EVACSUITS!! And looting! Gamers love looting!

Good thing Eve players are intelligent enough to knock CCP back on track whenever they forget that Eve is Spaceships.

A thought for discussion - is CCP capable of creating a full-fledged avatar gaming universe?

The performance issue with Incarna went beyond simply burning out OC'd hardware, if even. At the time my system was right in the middle of hardware performance. Decent video card, decent processor. Certainly, it could not be characterized as meeting only the minimum system requirements of the game and yet CQ performance was horrendous. I've been building computers since, well, over 20 years, so I like to think I know at least how to spec out a system to my needs.

I recently rebuilt my system, new GPU included. Again, not to top of the line performance, I shoot for the most bang for the buck that I can while edging just over the line of mediocrity. I've found this to be a comfortable place. Given that we're now 2 years past Incarna's release one would think new generations of hardware would more than overcome performance requirements for Incarna. I was quite disappointed that it was still taxing my system, overly utilizing the GPU, fans complaining with their whirling as they attempted to keep my GPU cool. While I was in the +30fps arena with Incarna, it still suffered from laggy input and character control.

No, Incarna if optimized, is just poor code. If not optimized, is just poor coding. Either way you look at Incarna its bad. That CCP dropped it like a hot potato means there's nothing redeeming about it. Otherwise, customer complaints withstanding, CCP would not have abandoned it entirely. It was an investment. Or, just an alpha for WoD. Who knows. I'm sure half of what the community thinks they know isn't nearly what is reality within the iron curtain of CCP.

Compare what was in those videos to what was actually released.

So we had two years of wasted development time and we got a room with a couch and a microtransaction store and you want them to waste even *more* time on it? I just want to be clear that that is really what you are advocating for.

I went ahead and unsubscribed, my account will expire in December.

P.S. Thread is heated up and got like 10+ pages during a week. Either interest to WiS raised - or discontent with CCP and EVE updates.

It wasn't a fear. They simply did lose many subscribers, as has been pretty well documented, and they reacted to the fact that their business was going to have very great trouble operating on a model that assumed annual growth when, in fact, it was moving in the opposite direction. They righted the ship and are now pretty much back to where they were before they started shedding customers (maybe even a little ahead now). Had they not taken the drastic action that they did they would have been in HUGE financial trouble as they would have lost many more players.

I don't think anyone really objected to CCP's publicly trailed vision of WiS. What they objected to was the immense disconnect between the vision and the reality of its implementation after it had sucked vast quantities of resources away from core gameplay.

Tbh I don't care what his involvement was or wasn't but all I hear is the goonsheep bleating in this thread

I certainly agree with this - Incarna didn't represent what was possible and I'm hopeful that they won't **** it up to such a grand extent again. However, after four (?) years of development, what it did represent was a pathetic actualisation of the vision. Now, the idea that the next expansion would have been the big one and CCP just needed to manage expectations better is attractive but I'm not convinced that it stands up to scrutiny from a historical perspective. CCP themselves have admitted that they had no actual sustainable vision for the content of WiS. It's not the case that great stuff was just six months away. On the contrary, it sounds like little more than a few extra skins for CQ were around the corner and perhaps a couple of pretty crappy facebook style board-games. They flat out stated that there wasn't actually any cool stuff on the near horizon, probably because they had become caught up in the avatar ownership idea, thinking that delivering 'thousand dollar jeans' to EvE's geeky fanbase was an end in itself.

As far as I can see, the current project is trying to do what should have been done in the first place. Create content first.

Does news ever occur in this thread anymore or is it just ongoing circular arguments?

There is no news about WIS (because WIS in no more in development) so its ongoiing circular arguments over and over again, time to get over it people.

Resources spent on more WiS nonsense are resources that aren't spent on real Eve content.

You also missed the first part of CCP Seagull's intro where she explained that Rubicon is the first step in the next phase of the game where the great empires will be assaulted by the capsuleers. You should go back and rewatch the entire announcement...good stuff there.

UPDATE PocoTable SET IsDestroyable=true;

So you're just trolling at this point?

I don't know if you were around for this but in the 18 months leading up to Incarna there was pretty much zero development carried out on EvE the spaceship game because CCP's staff and resources were deployed on other projects (Incarna, DUST and WoD).

You're not really going to make me find the dev blogs are you? If WoD wasn't being developed, who were all those guys who got laid off shortly after Incarna flopped? And development hadn't started on DUST at that point? Are you kidding? DUST was announced in August 2009. Early in 2011, the year Incarna was released, CCP announced that DUST would enter Beta towards the end of the year. Of course, it was held back and delayed endlessly but they had some version of it round about the time of the Incarna release. Hell, if you look at CCP's financial figures for 2010 and 2011 you can see the massive amount of coding 'assets' they are booking at the time.

I completely agree which is why I don't want CCP to waste resources on WiS nonsense when they should be fixing the flaws in the core game.

I'd like to see your evidence of that. Quite a few serious DUST players are running double-boosters (active and passive) which cost in excess of $20-30 per month EACH. Which means there are plenty of players paying $40-60 a month to play DUST. Not counting paid weapons/suits/etc.

I have answered this at least three times on the last few pages of the thread. But I'll do it one more time for the slow people.

Dust has failed miserably and probably won't be around much longer (and I did protest the time and money spent on it when it was announced), WoD is vaporware with barely any staff assigned to it and Valkyrie, while I won't be playing it, is at least spaceship related.

All clear now?

raven:

The PS3 couldn't support Carbon's graphics component. I wouldn't be surprised to see a future PS4 version of DUST someday using Carbon. Valkyrie will probably be built in Carbon as well, as with the WiS prototype talked about at the start of this thread, CCP devs use Unity for rapid prototyping because of how easy it is to throw something together.

Can't remember the details, but someone shared a techy explanation on why PS3 graphics code can't be carried over to PS4 and so porting DUST to PS4 would mean re-writing everything again; it had to do with PS3 using specialyzed graphic processors and PS4 using a completely different graphical core not compatible with PS3's 7 years old hardware.

^_^

Yea, Goons... fun bunch... I mean, you gotta love people that only play games to ultimately break them, and to show the whole world how clever they are in doing so.

It was prototyped in Unity. Now Valkyrie is actually getting developed for real, and almost certainly being rewritten from scratch. Notes we've been given on Valkyrie's original version that was demo'd was that it's horrible code that could never be released.

Also, behold that most of the new UI that's particularly nice on EVE is due to Carbon. Ship skinning... Carbon. A lot of the new overhauled game mechanics from the last three or four expansions are Carbon. The new RESTful API that won't suck as much as what we currently use... Carbon. The way DUST and EVE communicate... yeah, that's Carbon.

Carbon is so much more than WiS.

I thought they were rewriting Valkyrie in Unity? So if it is rewritten in carbon that leads to the O-R- being used in Eve?

Beards, that was the first thing i noticed when creating an avatar that peeved me a bit. The distinct lack of beards

CCP fixing broken CQ in new build on the test servers will be the indicator that they still care about us, CQ dwellers. If they will leave it, I am leaving mine and moving into the pod PERMANENTLY.

And, of course, I'll stick with CCP which (despite making shoddy community decisions when attempting to reward people for contributing to said community) is focusing on core gameplay experience: spaceships. Each iteration they do their best to make spaceships more and more fun, giving you a reason to log in and play the damn game.

Visuals and nifty addons can only spice up an existing, solid product. CCP learned that lesson in Incarna and made a good decision: core gameplay before anything else. Then they made another good pick by releasing some of the NEX items for much lower prices - and we already can see a lot of people making use of them. Those who don't buy them for AUR, buy them for ISK.

Hell, even the damned monocle became something of a wealth status symbol. "HEY LOOK I'M SO RICH I CAN THROW A BILLION INTO THE SHITTER HA-HA!". I'll kind of repeat myself saying - CCP should flip the "enabled" tags on all other NEX things and just see what players do with them.

The new cybernetic arm thing indicates someone's still playing with WiS, even if it's just character creator stuff. So that's nice.

I'm confused why some of you are pro-WiS but anti-DUST/Valkyrie. WiS is the perfect glue to tie all three properties together.

We don't have numbers for how much DUST rakes in, but people pay between $20-60 a month to be fully boosted. A lot less people do it, no doubt, but those that do are giving CCP more money per user than EVE players are.

what we need now is more triggers to drive conflict not "shiney shiney WiS". Nobody ever started a war over how ugly was the mug of the other side.

If you check polls in SC - most (2/3) players want exploration, not PvP. Casuals provide most money for games and they don't care if game is for hardcore PvPers or not - they'll go to the game where they'll feel more comfortable. There are 5 sandbox games in development, with its "no content for you, go PvP" development doctrine EVE will lose subscribers - the only questions are how many and how to minimize losses? Obvious answer - better WiS functionality surely won't hurt because besides gameplay it will provide much more socialization opportunities than local chat from 90s.

The rest is likely busy looking into POSes and Sovereignity, things that are among the foundation of conflict in this game.

....Stuff about how hardcore Eve is.

Imagine I'm not that guy. Imagine I'm the man that preys on a ship you'd abandon. Would you abandon a shiney T3? No - you'd abandon a shuttle. You also probably would roll a npc corp alt to spawn a noobship as a free ride home if you ever got stranded and never venture out of safe space in fear of actually getting stranded for good.

That is if anyone would actually bother stranding you in the first place... they might for kicks, but what's it worth?

And you seem to imply all of 0.0's lovely warfare is composed out of structure shoots with SRP. Trust me, a lot of pilots wouldn't be flying null alliance colours if it was solely this.

Death is irrelevant. A capsuleer's body and ship are merely shells. Material loss - is.

Efficiency is irrelevant.... Killboard stats are irrelevant.

...

Like hell you're going to scan down an anomaly someone parked a T1 covops in for a chance to strand him in 0.0. He likely has an empty clone and by the time you go back with a scanning ship (or even scan down the anom) he's likely to abandon it and cheese it if he has anything of value in cargo.

Would they be the good kind of subscribers, or the "Casual no pvp exploration 2/3/74%"?

I mean deadweights that just sit in hisec, gorge up on ISK and then get scream on the forums when they get shot? If the game was composed solely out of them, it'd die quickly.

PvP is being in-development and changed constantly. "Rebalance" of ships tends to change their mechanics completely. Rubicon brings us interdiction-immune Interceptors, minisiege Marauders and new SoE ships - that's actually not bad.

There seem to be plans to change POSes and Sov mechanics later down the line, much like there are no announced plans for WiS. And good - I'm pretty sure CCP aims for stories built on emergent gameplay and content created by players as a way to market the game.

They don't want us to play a role in a world they built. They want us to build a world from dust they gave us. They want EVE to be a game where player empires rise, set ambitious goals, make impact on history. Where a player can make himself a part of said empire. Great conflicts erupt, over resources or personal animosity. Empires are destroyed in wars that involve thousands of players.

This sounds way more epic than "Solo casual exploration". And it is - likely even to a casual player, if he were to even take his first step.

There's place in all of this for WiS but it's too ambitious to work today. It can be added as a cherry on top.

As for development - EVE is old. Very old. A hint of work being done is the recent implementation of DX11 capability into the engine. Trust me - working on a code that old, likely poorly documented, is hard. It's harder than writing it from scratch. You can't write it from scratch either, because there is something out there that bases on 3 lines of code here you consider redundant. You optimize it, you break it and it all falls to pieces.

They mentioned reworking lighting during the V3 shader discussion. Perhaps we'll see that in Rubicon or following Rubicon - all said, kudos to CCP coders for actually trying to dig into the old code. The same process will be seen in POS and Sov revamps.

I guess it's easy to understand a lot of people haven't done the whole "hey here's 200k of lines of code from ten years back and no docs, go fix it" thing and CCP exhausted its potential for saying "Guys, we're developing this awesome new Z feature that'll totally rock your socks off. Just wait! it's coming soon!" (soon(tm) is somewhat known to be applied here.), so no wonder they keep quiet.

And that it was a response to the posts above, getting it would require reading the posts above. Come ooon, if you're going to try and troll it up at least put some heart into it!

There are no legacy code restrictions on WiS because there is no legacy WiS. It needs to be written from scratch. Plenty of legacy FiS content.

Now you get to feel what it's like, when CCP comes out with a statement that your favorite part of this SPACESHIP GAME won't be worked on for "18 months", because of restricted manpower. How do you like it, eh? You don't like it when your game lies broken and bleeding, ignored for "other develoment comitments." The trouble is you WiSers are a minority in the game, heck you can't eveven get enough people to shoot a damned statue in Jita about it, so what makes you think CCP should listen to you?

CCP worked on Incarna, and all we got out of it was, us forced into a rusty closet at first, and barbie dress-up, and it melted your graphics card to do it to. I'm glad that CCP realised that they were trying to fill in a, develomental Grand Canyon, with shovels, and stoped trying to throw more manpower at something that had no gameplay at all.

I'll tell you what Incarna *did* do.... Incarna made a lot of early subbers leave the game.
There were so many other issues that could have been worked on, back then. And to make matters worse, a couple hundred accounts from the first 3 years of the game just up and logged off, stopped paying their fees, and all their ISK and toys and knowledge are now no longer an active part of our world.

One such player... a guy named Gamertrav... was more than willing to take time out of his day to suck down a joint big enough to make Cheech and Chong pass out and help other players learn how to PvP, explore, and make ISK. And he wasn't the only one of those guys that was like that. EVE didn't just lose players... it lost mentors. And even if 3 more mentors crop up in every one of their places, you still can't substitute that much knowledge packing up and leaving.

Weren't you one of the dudes who was lauding WiS, in local, back when we all thought it was going to happen?

OF COURSE that wasn't the only thing wrong with Incarna, you unobservant bag of hammers. I never said it was. Show me ONE word of that post you quoted where I said "WiS" instead of "Incarna". Who is the "idiot", now?
There were a lot of asterisks in that post, man. Who urinated in your pancake batter, this morning? Because I know for damn sure it wasn't me. Re-direct your anger-spew elsewhere.

Stuff

The topic can be found here.

Accepted. Rum and coke for you. If we ever meet in space, let us go in with guns blazing and come out saying "GF"

http://www.mashie.org/eve/new_dress02.png the boots are on TQ.

http://www.mashie.org/eve/new_dress01.png probably will be the 20 years anniversary clothing...

If CCP were to implement "content" in stations, then what I'd like to see is the system security, uh, system applied to different parts of the station. Not because I was want to mimic EvE's current nullsec vs highsec animosities, but because it actually would reflect popular sciene fiction. For example, from Star Wars the bar on Tatooine is obviously a nullsec bar within a low sec town -- the presence of government forces means that there is at least some kind of law enforcement, but obviously they don't care a whit about what goes on in that bar. More apt to stations, is Babylon 5. The Babylon station is mostly highsec, but the downbelow section was populated by criminals, transients and homeless, where much bad activity went on unnoticed. Yet again, the Star Trek Deep Space 9 station, another high sec station, had Quark's bar -- while not equivalent to nullsec, illegal activities and shady happenings occurred there.

I think that kind of setup could actually be used to good effect in EvE stations, should CCP ever decide to add PvE or PvP to stations. It would also allow the use of various underutilized social skills for getting around in the station. Need to sneak onto the station because of a low security status, or into a dangerous area but you're not a criminal? Hey, your criminal connections can help you get in. Need to look around the brig? Your security connections or fast talk. I'm sure a number of hacking skills could be used around a station, too.

At some level, CCP, or least elements within CCP, understands that EvE is about relationships. There is no betrayal without a trust relationship in the first place. People like to be in corporations because of relationships with other pilots. People enjoy EvE lore and books because they get involved in the relationships within the stories. It's the way we are as human beings, even for extreme introverts like me. Avatars are both the logical and emotional giant next step for improving relationships within Eve. It's sad that so few realize it.

In a sandbox mmo-rpg's, their is no such thing as non-consensual PvP, you make it consensual when you login.

Frankly, I don't see the use of having the most unpopulated section ever seen in a station, aka "lowsec in stations". Why should it work any more than "lowsec in space" works? Actually, provided the stornger bond to a humanoid avatar, players would be even more risk averse than they are with their ships...

...

On the opposite, consensual PvP could find a niche in avatar gameplay. I personally would fancy to hold 1v1 gladiator combats via drone clones... sort of the Arena at Oblivion, but PvP. Being consensual, the rewards should be akin to those in the "duel" mechanic... that is, none directly supplied by the mechanic. I recall that at some point I worked out the details for a PvP league in space, before understanding that any kind of PvP arenas in space would kill the game. But then, avatar gameplay is a blank sheet and could be shaped into things never done before in EVE... like, actual fun and mostly unconsequential content.

"By opening this door, you will access the seedier, darker side of the station. Unspecified dangers await, but also the potential for great rewards. Are you sure that you want to enter The Bilge?"

Yes/No?

Yes

Player spawns and is ROTFLstomped by 10 guys with machineguns, who camp the door 24/7.

"You died. Do you want to activate a new clone?"

Players would be making lines to enjoy that, sure.

If they don't like it, then they don't enjoy sandbox mmo-rpg's and should leave.

You don't understand sandbox mmo-rpg's, simple as that.

That'd I'd agree with, though what still remains is the matter of dev resources that aren't infinite. And, let's face it, it'd take a lot of testing effort to make it shine - in MMOs players break things quickly. If they break them too much, your super-awesome feature ends up as a wall of tears.

If anything, the new items are a shiney thing to put on your portrait. Nothing wrong with that, we needed more variety but if WiS were to happen it'd have to kick off as something amazing to shut up those still burned by Incarna. Or at least get them not to react violently.

Arduemont, you probably forgot to take your Xanax suppository before posting this diarrhea on EvE Online forums, but anyway let's stay debunking all your silly claims.



Bold statement, but you see, my posts on this forums are about EvE Online, explicitly about the sandbox mmo-rpg's elements, im a paladin of emergent gameplay and i will always defend it from themeparkers. You on the other hand are clueless about anything related with this subject, you only post about pedo avatar imbecilic barbie stuff, your posts are completely wrong and irrelevant.



This is another example that clearly shows that you are a ignorant on the subject of sandbox mmo-rpg's, you are out of your natural habitat (the avatar pedo barbie stuff). So let me explain, please read this very slowly, so your brain can process it. Take your time...

EvE Online is a complex sandbox mmo-rpg game, it's all about Player vs Player interactive competition, Gathering Resources, Manufacturing and Destruction, it's all Player vs Player, even when you're logged out.

And there a good reason for this to happen.

There is a cycle of life in sandbox mmo-rpg games. Like a said before, Gathering Resources, Manufacturing and Destruction, all of them are interconnected to each other and without them, the game is broken. All are equally important and can't work without each other. It's an ecosystem, if you break a part of the cycle, you break the game.

What happened to the great sandbox mmo-rpg called Ultima Online, the developers created a safe haven in the game for carebears, with this change the cycle was broken, no more "Destruction" so their was no need for "Manufacturing" and obvious, no need for "Gathering" either. The game died, just like that.

You can't have a sandbox mmo-rpg game without non-consensual PvP. You can't add a new feature in a sandbox mmo-rpg game without non-consensual PvP. It's not possible.



This coming from someone like you, i can only take this as a compliment.



If you are so worried about waste of database space, why do you keep posting brainless stuff that doesn't have anything to do with EvE Online? Why do you keep spaming this forums with irrelevent trash? Why are you even posting here?

The aswner is quite simple, you either have brain cancer or you are a member of the two digit IQ club, i senselessly hope you are just a stupid person...

To sum it up, your the one that shouldn't be posting on this forums, a place like second life forums or some .onion/deepweb pedophile website would fit you like a glove.

Im crying?!? the stupid is strong in this one... Just read your posts, your the one doing the crying, basically this all thread is you and 4-5 avatar freaks crying.

The truth is this, im crying at you, and every time you post you expose your staggering ignorance.

After news from Vegas about modifications of NeX store it seems CCP is abandoning idea of microtransactions in EVE and most likely new "WiS" assets in the game are simply relics of "$1000 designer jeans" stash. I.e. they were developed 2+ years ago as more expensive tiers of cosmetics but since idea to sell them is abandoned we see them released into the game semi-free and nobody works on Incarna update.

I'm not sure where he got his info from. David Reid said they were going to revamp the NeX store next year. Not abandon it.

I think they are for EVE Vegas attendees.

Better yet, since the vacuum is fairly cold, ejected ***** turn into solid ice instantly.

Heat can also be lost by radiation.

Anyone not interested in PvP is in the wrong game, the only part of sandbox mmo-rpg's that are not about PvP competition is the login screen, and even that can be PVP since you can have a keylogger on your computer.

The fact that a themepark carebear avatar freak like you is crying all over the forums shows that CCP is doing a wonderful job on EvE Online, the sandbox mmo-rpg.

CCP isn't going to waste any resources on avatar based game play unless there's actually any reason to do so.

And so far there's been no ideas of any game play worth of investing any resources in.

I think that since then, CCP Bayesian mentioned that Team Avatar was reassigned to other tasks.

Yeaaa that kind of says "hey we canned the project."

Well I don't exactly see a massive drop in amount of people logged in.

Riiight and that's in no way tied to the usual climb of PLEX prices around this time of the year if I recall or new services that were introduced.

Matter of fact next year I'm gonna nominate Minmatar Citizen 20120210 for CSM along with my usual candidates Gorski Car and PsychoBitch.

Thanks for the email!

CCP has always been excited about avatars in the EVE Universe, but it is currently not on the roadmap. And when we do put it on the roadmap, it is unlikely to go directly into EVE Online as you know it now, for a number of technical and practical reasons. But we now of course have the "EVE Universe" that can host more than one game - so what you want to look for is game announcements in the future rather than full avatar gameplay crammed into EVE Online the spaceship game - and CCP Hellmar is the guy to poke about it! :)

/Seagull

I know that, but :CCP:

Yep, this does look much cooler. 1.45(if it starts from the start for some reason)

Not quite true. PS3 players can play it in the Event Horizon lounge on the Playstation Home.

Why did they give it to console players rather than EVE players though is beyond me.

If you thought that WiS maybe wasn't appealing to a large enough population, you should read this piece on who will actually enjoy the Hallelujah Plan...

http://www.vg247.com/2013/11/18/eve-rubicon-sets-up-ccps-greatest-mystery-yet-interview/

New implants, new modules, new materials, to build and use the stargates to BIG UBERSPECIAL NEW SPACE (BUNS), probably by Winter 2014 expansion.

That is, if you're an alliance large enough to afford it, and don't be disrupted by someone else. Preferably an alliance whose nickname starts with a G...

...and the rest of us, oh, we can just keep paying the bills so the lucky 5% enjoys 90% of everything that's to come for the next three years.

Apparently there's lots of art assets left over from incarna that they never did anything with.

Is this sarcasm? It's in the first post of this thread.

From the Reddit IamA:



I guess that is the final nail in the coffin for me personally. It will never come, one CCP promise more never to be delivered. Well, at least it was fun to dream what it could've been. No you cant have my stuff, since I'm not quitting. Incarna never was a deal breaker for me, but I'm still sad to see it never mature.