It's great to see that there are ppl working at CCP that do not think that "EVE is only about spaceships and eleet peeveepee" and are working on avatar gameplay. What a shame that people who could be working on it too and helping it being released earlier got laid off. Its not like CCP is facing economical problems and needs to cut on personnel expense.

And like magic, an idiot appears.

The two previous responses illustrate why CCP will implement more content for avatars.

The best they can come up with is some gibbering nonsense about furries and emoting. Neither of which have anything do do with the suggested prototype.

Dribble on brave retards, dribble on.

the whole drop in subscriptions came after a number of years of underwhelming expansions and broken promises, for which Incarna with it's macrotransaction store was the final straw..

But hey ,WIS is not coming ,So that Mittens guy and his Goons can go to sleep ,with no worries and dream about the next big ship.

CCP should care about people unsubbing when they actually buy PLEX and support the game, not when moon farming crybaby herds throw tantrums. Btw send my regards to Lord Mittler and tell him maybe he should get some puppies not infected with rabies, that stuff's dangerous and contagious brah.

brah, you should consider to stop whining like spoiled brats, HTFU and disengage in such ridiculous and vomit-inducing activities like shooting statues, burn Jitas and other attention seeking activities.



being mean to the lady bic boi? come at me brah, im right here! want some of this bic boi?
somehow ur the one who strikes me as a wife batterer, if you had any in the first place, which is highly unlikely given the obvious sperg and fear you've been showing towards women. what's this fear that players from other games such as WoW and Second Life would come play EVE about? Are you that afraid that they beat you at it and banalized your sad existance? or just hate women in general?

now ur going OCD in forum thread replies. get that checked brah

Based on your lip, I bet you like walruses.

Really?
When CCP was encouraging them to play EVE? Oh, i see, you see furries everywhere. Too much time spend with goons,and their something awful forums I suppose.

Youre delusions of what WIS is about are amusing. CCP has said they planned on adding exploration type avatar-gameplay in this very thread. You expect to find animals in space exploration and extra-vehicular activity?

Yeah yeah, we get it. You suffer from a bad case of Pediophobia.

After you get some professional help please feel free to come back to
this thread if you have something inteligent to add, otherwise stop derailing
a good discussion.

The spacebarbie and emoting stuff was getting old,was it not ?

The only reason Incarna "almost killed" the game is that shitstorm caused by their "greed is good" leak, and overall Incarna content delivery.

Keep crying how it's waste of development time, because it will make sure it is a waste, since CCP is scared to even mention WiS anymore.

I blocked it a while ago

When Star Citizen proves that the concept of a blend of Avatar and Spaceship game play can work well if approached properly, I hope that many people that currently deride the concept as hopeless will give the matter a rethink.

Ahhh, nevermind. I thought you were actually trying to be taken seriously in your stance towards Incarna.

Obviously I was mistaken.

the problem with wis is that some people think that second life freakshow, a bunch of dudes emoting each other in a player-run "bar" is acceptable as sound game play.

I'm pretty sure they were being sarcastic.

Oow , i forgot the WIS toke 2 years stuff except it was a complete new game engine that toke 2 years.

Ok... This whole eva thing and actually getting to play with your avatars is a cool idea. But honestly, I would just be satisfied if there was a social aspect to it. Let me walk around inside of hubs and stations, see other peoples avatars, go to chat bars or actually have to walk to different shops or places for different things instead of just a GUI. That really wouldn't be THAT hard would it? I'm honestly completely stunned to NOT see that in this game.

So you tell me now that this whole carbon stuff is a waist?

Let me tell you about a game that has all these things and is space related called Star Citizen. Hope goons like you will enjoy yourselves when your targets will be enjoying themselves there.

The Incarna uproar:

1) was not caused by WiS, but by the implementation of vanity items and pay-to-win content (golden ammo, eh?)

Tell me again how do you think the playerbase would have it regarding WiS, despite the fact that the feedback CCP gets from this is (quoting Unifex) "overwhelmingly positive".

How can you consider subscriptions as "the only feedback that matters" when talking about features in proposal?

Proposal.

Features that are yet to be implemented.

Features that have not been added.

I know, reading only what you want to read is a big thing on forums, but please try anyways... Incarna was not WiS, it was demo CQs and a cash shop, and that's what turned people off.

Yea, that's the reason why there is DUST... and Valkyrie... CCP is very well aware that the EVE universe has more potential then just spaceships, and they will do something to expand on the current gameplay/connect it with all the other games at some point.

PS: Read the patch notes.

In fact most rage was about the nex store and supposed "monocle madness".

Funny, repeating derogatory terms again and again is another halmark of FOX news...

That maybe, but boarding enemy ships/space stations would... and should there by one there could be the other aswell. Besides, the ability to own your own bar or shop on a station (POS or NPC) would open up a whole new venue for players to engage in a) business and b) social interaction... CCP has stated time and time again that they would like EVE to become a fully fledged scifie simulation, not "just" a spaceship game..

PS: keep posting, gotta keep this thread up.

A myriad of small fixes and changes to the Neocom, Hangars, general UI/usability, ship models, turret models/effects, new ships, learning skills removal, incursions, PI, POCOs, the ingame calendar, etc.

Who decides what is "meaningful"?

Wind Commander series ring a bell?

There is nothing coming because WiS team doesn't exist anymore. They are terrified of players throwing a hissyfit again

This will never be "done" or "worked out", because some people will never be satisfied. Therefore it should not be held as a brake for WiS development, instead they could be worked on at the same time. You know, that should be possible, because WiS is largely needing graphic assets (and optimization and a handful of fixes) that Sov and Pos should not require as much if at all, as far as I've understood it POS/Sov people want redesigned mechanics. But I'm not sure because I don't own either.

The current status of WiS is also "holy **** this sucks", so it should see the same level of development effort.

You forgot about the furries and the roleplayers ,maybe it wil help us to take you serious

I'm not saying that CCP should ignore everything that is broken in the game right now... and if they'd build a dedicated team for the whole "avatar gameplay" (not calling it WiS anymore) they wouldn't have to ignore them.

Don't worry dear, they are goons after all. They go on and on trashing the RP and the space barbies and yet they make their avatar look like "angry black men" and act as they would. It's hilarious really.

That's a racial stereotype even used by the media, not racism... just saying.

Personally, Dust 514 is not the solution for avatars in New Eden.

After 2011 I doubt we will see any WiS for quite some time

Just put them on Valkerie and we will be fine right??

Yea... arcade, CoD style spaceship combat that will, most likely, never have anything to do with EVE...

...uh, right, no "space barbies", I forgot ...it gotta be alright then, right?

This guy is just a super forum troll. Logic is impervious to the thickness of his skull. Any argument, no matter how well crafted will have him spouting 'Herp derp, barbies and furries" nonsense because he has no real argument. This works great in convincing absolutely no one of any actual cons to walking in stations. All it does is show how much of a **** this guy is, or anyone who genuinely believes that the implementation of WiS would be equivalent to barbies and furries.

EvE is a great game, and it will grow to be even better when everyone starts ignoring people with no imagination or vision. The word "never" should be changes to, 'if we can figure out how to correctly implement".

"i am dumb and dummer"

OK, blocked.

People cancelled because of the gold ammo and pay to win crap as per the leaked memo, not the avatar stuff. I think CCP are going to regret lack of avatar game play when their competitor's start eating to their market share and subs drop.

It's been ignored ever since, ui changes and balancing ships are not expansions. Dust got all of the love, not eve.

Funny how out of all the tens of thousands of EVE players, Rhes is the only one that is vocally against the implementation of meaningful avatar content.

Looks like new stuff for avatars is a virtual certainty.

Can we just ignore the troll and get back to the discussion? I reported him, hope he at least gets banned from this thread so it can stay on topic, and without the petty name calling.

The same would also apply to most of the "giev WIS naow!!!" posts in this and other threads. Most of the data and etc used to further that position are presented matter-of-factly, but in reality turn out to be only emotionally fueled and pulled directly from a rectum.

The WiS will boost eve online

It's nice I don't have to worry about EVE WiS anymore

The thing is all that negative posting and unnecessary name-calling by Rhes brings anything related to WiS on front forum page, where CCP can see how many ppl actually care about it.

Actually, I think he is the biggest WiS fan.

In other words, thanks for all the bumps from us, "furries," Rhes

rediculous troll

(Note that they banned any capture or rebroadcast from the WoD demo at fanfest).

They did show in-game footage from WoD at fanfest but asked/begged that it shouldn't be recorded and published.

As a project lead can understand why, since I don't like wasting my time explaining to wannabe reporters why stuff doesn't look the way they think it should in the middle of a dev cycle.

Stuff _is_ happening in Georgia, WoD and the avatar based engine is far from dead.

(Nor far from Undead, given their IP).

But it's not what we have in CQ, and it's not ready to replace what we have, yet.

Ok, so spare me the 78 pages of reading: where is Eve at with more ambulation/WiS? I don't think many players would object to more WiS environments and feature iteration, as long as they weren't forced into it like the original CQ disaster. Think of it more like Eve's Industry or Exploration careers. Not required, but certainly something alive, well and iterated upon.

"must-read" indeed, thanks Ish... summarizes very good all the arguments we brought up here.

"The future is coming and CCP needs to adapt to the changing business model." ...times have changed a lot since 2011 and they should adapt.

Your impaired speech seems to have improved in the last couple of weeks, you seem to be finally and slowly starting to acknowledge that balances and reworking of old mechanics are needed



but so are "expansions" with graphic improvements, content and gameplay features. The word "furries" also seems to not be present in your lines so often.

I think the medication I prescribed you is finally kicking in and showing some good results.

People who keep screaming WiS as concept should die are practically demanding that CCP scrap all the work done in those "2 years that they ignored real Eve." I think this player base could be more supportive.

Don,t get me wrong ,i am one of those WIS lovers ,but 2014 ?

WIS is used as an excuse not to expand on EvE a bit to long to compare it with some animation stuff
But the funny thing is new graphics and animations are results of the so called 2 year neglecting of EvE and as a byproduct there was that 1 disappointing room

Yeah, we are getting whole 0 new star systems every year for 3 (5?) years in a row!

There's no shortage of ideas from the player-base for things they'd like to see added to WiS, starting with opening that blasted door.

Also Dust 514 is based on the Carbon engine

Meanwhile the 12 month anniversary of this thread is coming up.

Seriously CCP. What else do we need to do to demonstrate that there is huge interest in meaningful avatar gameplay?

I know that the code was forked, but it's not just about the code. They are developing tools, making design decisions around social gameplay, figuring out what works and doesn't work when you design a MMO with realistic avatars and environments.

The lessons they learn should feed back into EVE.

Actually, yes, yes it will. There are plenty of ways to get the attention of the dev-team without canceling your subscription.

Posting on the forums is one of those ways. If they know there's interest in something they're more likely to invest time and money into it

The fact that CCP created this thread (in October 2012, i.e. after Incarna) to talk about avatar gameplay specifically rebuts the claim that CCP was scared off by the Incarna backlash (again June 2011).

The 2013 Winter Expansion: Rebalancius just doesn't get the blood flowing.

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png

make of it what you will, but theres the data

Talking about EVE Online, that is still the example of how to do things in the post - WoW era. While CCP thought they were becoming the dinosaur of the industry, and therefore had to implement a cash shop with micro transactions. They realized their mistakes in time ( after their customers reminded them where their loyalty must lie Riots-in-eve-against-microtransactions ). And turned around and got back on track making EVE Online a better game.

CCP is being rewarded now, with a PCU ( peak concurrent users ) of over 65.000 and over 500.000 monthly playing subscribers and a continued growth every year since release, now more than 10 years ago.

At this moment EVE Online is the second biggest subscription based MMORPG in the west, and the only subscription based MMORPG that is still growing in the west and probably in the world.

I have read you`re input there is nothing that declarable about wis out of the picture you are just trolling.

They really aren't. There is no reason any future WiS content needs to have micro-transactions associated with it.

The number of people subbed has nothing to do with it.

I am saying that as long as WiS would increase subs, it doesn't matter how good the game is doing at the moment. I agree, subs are the only thing that matters, but the current subs are irrelevant. It is only the potential subs gained over the current that matter

The assertion that "WiS" cause Incarnageddon, is just rubbish. Not least of all because we never got "WiS".

So what your saying is, CCP is **** and we should get used to it? Well excuse me for wanting to have some faith in CCP. As for would I want CCP to neglect spaceship content over WiS? They don't have to neglect it. Also, it's really not a small group of people. This is why you are the minority in this discussion.

about Dust however its doomed to die or some miracle need to be happening to keep that game alive. http://crossingzebras.com/2013/06/21/the-tragedy-of-dust-514/

But thats apart from WiS.

Firstly, I have gone through this thread and I'm sad enough to have actually counted the different unique posters and whether they are pro or con

The problem, Rhes, with your plan of staying the course and avoiding innovation is that it works great until suddenly, it doesn't. You are correct: subs are the best measure of the company's health, although active users is a very important measure of engagement. You're correct, right now, CCP doesn't need to do anything innovative: subs are strong, engagement is strong. They don't need to do anything. This is the Microsoft 2007 strategy. Windows and Office reign supreme. Who is going to use a phone without a keyboard except a bunch of carebear fools, right?

Unwillingness to change is the recipe for disruptive innovation. The only way a competitor steals the space MMORPG crown from Eve is if Eve lets them. No one, no one, is suggesting that Eve move from its core competency, which is community driven spaceship flying. But Eve needs to improve in areas where it is weak: PvE and customization. That's exactly the weaknesses that avatar play addresses, and creates excitement about the game in the process.

You're suggesting putting the game on autopilot. We know what happens when you do that, and the real world is far less forgiving than Eve. If a disruptive competitor points Eve as it slow boats to a gate, CCP doesn't get to wake up in a new clone.

Which says absolutely nothing about WiS further reinforcing my point.

Thats not.. Like i say that before the put 1 team in the WiS "avatar" thats what 10 man? The rest still focus the main eve part new ships balance here and there put some tweaks and so on. Thats like 3/4 of there people. So you think the avatar game play will remove spaceships because of a avatar walking to a other player is a game breaking technology in eve or what? its a interaction not a game changing. You don`t want to use you`re barbie fine no one will care

Also not true because thats a different team and not part of the regular eve crew. So the hired to do WiS without losing any real ccp member. So the have 5/4 crew. So there is no worry`s about losing resource. The gain resource. And the best part is its not the team on Iceland but in japan a other ccp partner

Except that WiS is part of "real Eve gameplay"

Just because you, personally, don't like it doesn't make it any less a valid part of the game.

Yes, there were some long-standing issues with in-space features but those are being addressed.

Finally, something cogent and intelligent and not insults about barbies. More like this please. I finally, after pages and pages of back and forth, understand where you're coming from.

Is your argument then, that you feel CCP is not capable of implementing WiS in a professional and worthy manner? Then make that argument. It's a better argument than insults and deliberately conflating the microtransactions fiasco with the WiS implementation. You're right. The CQ is half assed. You'll get no argument from me on that one.

If your argument is that CCP can't do avatar play right, then make that argument. It's your best one so far.

Also not how development works. If they feel that WiS will make the game more successful then they can afford to budget in an entirely new team for that since it will bring in more subs. Throwing more teams at a narrow feature set has diminishing returns since you can only have so many people working on a specific feature before they start stepping on each-other's toes.

But - the game stays sub-based, while micro-transactions provide additional ISK sink.
People who are willing to spend on eyecandy - it can be a fancy suit , shoes, whatever piece of gear that provides a character distinctive memorable look - will buy more Plex. More bought Plex - more cash for CCP, more money for development.

Dipped, not nose-dived.

Does it mean that evil space barbies would make you participate? Or would it be too hard for you to resist the urge to join those dungeons?

Also if they are charged good amt for those emotes and fluff - more money for ccp to work on spaceships, right?

Blawrf on jabber is too much already

Well, you certainly haven't been attempting to refute people's counter-arguments so... again, agreement?

People cite sources and provide counter examples and you pick one tiny little word you don't like and respond to that. That's not even good trolling, let alone constructive debate.

K, under that logic I'm going to start a thread demanding more "fun stuff".

******* WiS retards.

The only time the forums have a hope of rising above the usual perennial insignificance is when the community articulates a generally consistent and coherent argument.

The sheer volume of drivel that comes out of Rhes is frankly amazing.

All of your arguments have been covered time and time again throughout this thread. I remember now why I stopped posting before, because I got tired of repeating myself to people who will just throw the same discredited arguments up over and over again.

You guys are so stuck to Incarnagate,it is almost embarrassing
No one in this thread wants something forced onto anybody
The only thing we want is the OPTION to open that door

I bet we will not even be able to use our CQ screens to watch those, though...

on the other hand, it can be destroyed by anyone when left unattended, which is stupid.

Meanwhile Star Citizen devs announced collectible fish for aquarium

...Rhes is kinda cute... I have no idea what he writes, since I got him blocked, but seeing how he always posts directly after me, I almost feel flattered.

Well, that's because EVE is no longer really about sci-fie... sure, it's about spaceships... but other then that, it's a playground for juvinile delinquents on a power trip, screwing each other over... no wonder, no excitement... just meaningless, tedious competition...

Take a look at the SC forums... there you see real sci-fie enthusiasts.

Only because that bay sucks in EVE and nobody in healthy mind would pay money for 4 locked jail cells without any customization options. However hangar (housing) with racing circuit, shooting range, collectible ship models-fish-paintings, manufacturing equipment, ability to invite people and (probably) shoot them (fish have to eat something!) - all of this may add a lot to sandbox and may become a selling point.

And it works in SC already: I gave them money right after hangar implementation when I've seen videos of toons walking around and inside their ships - and I didn't even expect to see aquariums, lounge, windows, racing tracks, posters, furniture, ship enhancement equipment and god knows what else they are going to implement there (and probably many items will be craft-able).

Sure, CCP didn't keep the promises about WiS

And to Rhes, i dont like your methods of furries and barbies but im on your side now of spaceships over avatars

everybody in this thread are here because they like EvE .

Stop listening to **** heads CCP. Be strong and keep to the original vision that included getting out of your ship.

The fact that my post, stating that we should have seen WiS or DUST integration work in this expansion, is now the most liked post in the first page of the expansion discussion thread should speak to some evidence that this is not a minority belief.

I thought you are posting to turn this thread into ad hominem garbage instead of actual conversation about WiS because CCP and Goonswarm collaborate to keep status quo, pacify public and persuade people it's normal for the last non-dying subscription-based game not to have meaningful gameplay expansions during 3 years (since Incursion) while shareholders feast on the money instead of investing them back into the game.

In then end it is all about resources. In theory if there was enough people developing the game all the major player groups could get what they want. However this obviously would cost more than any company could afford and probably turn the game into something no-one really recognizes as their own anymore.

So... company needs to prioritize what they want to do, with how much resources and what is worth doing.

It seems that CCP has taken the safe path and keeps redirecting some attention to sectors from where the money is currently coming. Those people seem to keep paying and game keeps going. This approach doesn't eat much resources, doesn't need much investments and has very small risks. Positive thing is that as long they keep doing this - Eve won't die :) Downside is that subscription amounts won't suddenly at least radically grow.

I can imagine reasons why CCP is doing what they are doing, but that doesn't really mean that I would accept it. In the end this isn't really black and white like "would you like us to fix the old stuff and be all about spaceships" OR "something else". This is something we players often seem to discuss about and IMO is totally wrong thing to argue about. I don't know if this is even something CCP want's us to bang our heads on to ignore the real issue behind the point.

In other words there is no "OR" between these current and new customers. In any successful company it is clear that you have to keep your old customers happy. You can not redirect all your resources just to attract new customers or the journey will end very fast. If you want new customers with some new concept you have to invest and assign more resources to the project while still keeping the old resources doing what they were doing.

As long CCP is not willing to invest greater part of the profits back to Eve and assign more developers to add new content which may or may not draw new subscribers from new target group - things really won't change.

I can only hope that someday some of the other CCP projects which have been eating from Eve start to make enough profits for them to give back to Eve and that CCP actually redirects those resources back to us as well. The flow has been other way around for too long already.

Obviously this is just customer feedback about "what I feel" without any statistical facts to back my beliefs up. Feel free to correct with real info if you know better. Would love to be wrong with this one.

Heavy spam of the Power of 2 is by far most likely the reason, which fueled basic requirement to multibox (or at least have multiple accounts) to succeed in this game.

Eve actual subscriber number could easily be only 2/3 of that 500k, due everyone and their grandma having alt accounts

The only proof that was brought by "summer of rage" is that:

Stop talking to it (the Rhes thing) .. its just like a voicemail message, no matter how much you try to reason with it, it will keep auto repeating.

I don't think Ish, J3ss, Shalua, or anyone else for that matter, would really take vanity features over meaningful gameplay.

It's no big secret that WiS in combination with meaningful avatar gameplay (owning businesses on stations etc.) would have been aimed first and foremost at highsec and industrial/trading players... so CCPs new plan is basically not only a refusal to WiS, but to the whole "non ship to ship PvP" part of EVE, and it's players

if you hate WiS so much why do you even have an avatar? Should have left the silhouette space holder .. yet you went to the trouble of making your face and moustache and put clothes on and finding the background you liked . Ah hypocrisy, such an ugly beast.

Avatar gameplay is not only about emotes and gudfait in Jita cantina, it's a whole new playstyle, a very dangerous one. Just imagine the havoc a group of marines could do by boarding an enemy ship during a huge fleet battle. Or infiltraring an enemy POS or station. But ofc this is vay too much for CCP, not even a whole decade would be enough to pull this out. Rebalancing dots in space over and over is much more convenient.

No matter... pretty soon EVE will be the only (successful) spaceship game that is JUST about spaceships... hope all you intelligent players will be happy then.

...vision is scary.

We use bathrobes and emotes only in Second Lyfe and LoL guyz! EVE is spaceshipz

Or we can go play a fresh new take on "internet spaceships" that combines all that
in one login, on one platform.

Its a fantastic idea for people that want a real space simulator sci-fi mmorpg and not tiny squares and spreadsheets.

OK, this post is 1 year old now. Can you show this to us now? Or was this just smoke?

It is quite interesting how they claim to be thrilled about getting more of the same (go there, conquer it, lose it, conquer it again, rinse and repeat) and yet fail to understand or respect what other players ask from CCP.

Didn't you watch the Incarna development videos?

Exactly, dumb ass. We never got any of that.

It should also be noted that arguing that X group that believes X about WiS is correct as CCP has never released any data on the player interest in the subject for quite some time. This goes for those arguing both for and against WiS, devolving the discussion into personal attacks and jibes does nothing to help either side.

Non sense. I unsubbed after WiS development stop. So did many people.

Nope. It just means that those people either don't unsub or do it quietly without throwing tantrums at CCP and shooting pixel statues

Make CCP change the couse of the game??? What are we now? Dellusional fanbois who think they own the game and force CCP to fire a whole dev team so they stop whining? Nope, we're all adults here

It's interesting when I post pics of Incarna (and EVE in general) on facebook and compare them to the cartoonish crap from other MMOs. EVE looks amazing.

It's a real shame that they have the engine for avatar game play already in place, but are refusing to use it.

Maybe we should get CCP to release the art assets from the existing CQs and get players to design a new space using them. Could be a fun competition.

Funny thing: Look where Second Life is on there. And that's with like... no "meaningful gameplay" whatsoever. And every game on the chart with over a million subs... has at least something avatar gameplay related.

Do humor me by telling how adding avatar gameplay would alter fundamentals of EVE gameplay in any way

Perhaps you should whine more about Dust, Valkyrie and World of Darkness in that case.

Indeed. Two ships and a few anchorable structures does not an "expansion" make. That's a content patch.

But balancing has nothing to do with WiS, WiS is a completely different type of effort, and would not harm subscriptions, as long as CCP continued to rebalance and iterate spaceship gameplay.

I support ship balancing. Ship balancing requires one guy. How many devs does CCP have?

Yes, we got two ships, ... four deployable space objects, I believe, and an achievement system that isn't cool enough to offer any cool achievements.

The game is horribly static, because any time CCP wants to introduce something that truly adds gameplay, people like you cry about it.

Brah, we don't need to do sh*t.

Complaining? Thats what goonsheep do in such attention seeking events, not us WiS supporters brah.

Check yourself before you engage in Summers of Tantrum and wreck yourself while Dust514 and Valkyrie are worked on instead of EVE. Hypocrite attention seeking tantrums are bad fo yo health brah.

It's not an either/or argument. With appropriate planning we can see improvements to both space and stations. It's just a matter of what size steps to take.

Then why, instead of campaigning against avatar content (in your incoherent way), are you not passionately against the THREE other games CCP are putting together.

DUST is, at this point, a more entertaining game than EVE is. It's not going anywhere. And with any luck, should be part of the next sov system when CCP gets around to finally fixing that.

He's just doing what you were doing before. And now we have two of you in the thread. I hope your happy.

Even worst, the whole Hallelujah Plan and its 3 years course will end up rewarding only the players who already managed to make the transition to nullsec gameplay.

True... I mean, even EVE is still an extremely flawed game. After 10 years of continuous development, it's very unbalanced, horribly un-accessable and all in all, very limited in scope.

I know those are some kind of book illustrations but why so detailed and so much focus on ships interior?

I'd like to see your evidence of that. Quite a few serious DUST players are running double-boosters (active and passive) which cost in excess of $20-30 per month EACH. Which means there are plenty of players paying $40-60 a month to play DUST. Not counting paid weapons/suits/etc.

Core problems like EVE's terrible New Player Experience would be pretty much solved by WiS.

But your fine with them wasting resources on WoD, Dust and Valkyrie right?

From the Reddit IamA:



I guess that is the final nail in the coffin for me personally. It will never come, one CCP promise more never to be delivered. Well, at least it was fun to dream what it could've been. No you cant have my stuff, since I'm not quitting. Incarna never was a deal breaker for me, but I'm still sad to see it never mature.

Translation: you have to enjoy ships because they are cheap.

Even better translation: CCP talks big. Delivers little.

Anyone else remember David Reid talking about how EVE was going to be the biggest gaming universe by the end of the year?

Meanwhile, star citizen reaches 33 million.

Because regardless of what comes out of your flappy word hole Rhes, players want avatar content.

To be honest, I'd take the word of the CCP executive over a developer. And they have said a number of times that they want to introduce meaningful avatar gameplay when resources permit.

Because that is only "meaningful avatar content," that you can imagine, right? How come you don't post that particular game name anymore, with that certain kind of RP contingent? You know, the ones that you included in every ship toast of yours in the thread that should only concern players wanting Avatar content, rather than those who have tunnel vision concerning the next decade of eve.

I'm trying to understand your point of veiw Rhes.

Do you believe that if CCP spent time developing some avatar content that it will ruin your enjoyment of the spaceship side of the game?

But you enjoy the spaceship game right now, right?

That won't change, avatar content will simply be an added extra. Completely optional too no doubt.

So is it instead the concept alone that CCP might spend development time on something other than spaceships enough to ruin your game? Must CCP fully devote 100% of their development resources to spaceships, every single update, to keep your enjoyment in EVE satisfied?

I'm trying to find the angle where the introduction of avatar content will ruin your personal game, Rhes. I can't see how it would, unless you're already not having fun.

highsec should be nerfed vs nullsec.

Ok. But was it really "ignored"? You've played longer than me Rhes, but I seem to remember updates throughout that period which brought changes and updates to the spaceship game. There's a difference to it being ignored completely and simply not being focussed on as much as you'd personally like it to be.

And that's a fair point. But it does bring rise to a question - So it's not the fact that avatar-content is being introduced that annoys you, but more-so the fact that you believe CCP can't introduce it in a balanced fashion that doesn't harm the development of the spaceship side?

i.e. Is you problem avatar gameplay - or the way in which it's developed and introduced?

It sounds like you'd be fine with it if CCP could somehow introduce it without effecting spaceship game development. If so then, as I mentioned earlier, shouldn't you be pushing for CCP to bring more balance to it's WiS's implementation rather than completely opposing it's introduction?

Personally I disliked many of the things introduced in Odyssey for example. But as a wormholer I could also see that these changes would bring more people, and more targets, to w-space. So I supported the update overall. Similarly I believe there's benefits that come with avatar gaming, more people, more subscriptions, more targets. And because I'm a roleplayer - more RP fun too. So I support it's introduction. I'm quite happy with the spaceship game as it is, anything extra is a bonus.

Still trying to figure out why "meaningful" gameplay is so important for WiS.

This is the reason we can't have nice things.

Whiners that are afraid to try any new or interesting ideas.

I wonder if it was discussed at the CSM summit.

If it was its likely to be under NDA anyway.

Star citizen continues to look like an attractive alternative to EVE. I hope the competition it brings causes CCP to do something exciting again. Seriously none of the recent expansions, whilst having some nice things in the, have even been remotely exciting.

It is truly sad that the Dev focus has gone off of Eve and onto Dust and VR, It appears that they have just gotten bored with Eve the same way the blizzard devs had with WoW and Trion with Rift. Now we are spoon fed broken patches and told to be grateful for what we get, let alone what they pass off as expansions these days.

After 9 years of playing this game it's disgraceful to see Eve pushed aside when so many great ideas are just ignored, and the current Devs churn out useless modules to cater for the WoW crowd rather than making any attempt to engage the players they already have. I'm not saying we shouldnt encourage new blood to the game, just that you shouldn't **** on your own doorstep and expect people to be happy about it.

I seriously hope that someone with half a brain in CCP gets wind of plea threads like these and takes notice for once, contrary to common opinion we do actually want to make this game better.

Or they could ignore Valkyrie/Dust, and put just as much work on ongoing Eve projects AND add Avatar content without negatively affecting the Eve development that 'you want'. They're not mutually exclusive Rhes.

You know, if you love spaceships so much maybe you should play a spaceship sim. Eve is an MMO, a social monster, where a great many of the people who play successfully hardly ever need to undock. Spaceships are the medium of our gameplay, but they are not the gameplay itself. A great many of the things that are important in Eve don't require spaceships at all.

A track record implies multiple events. One expansion is not a track record. If your not willing to give them a second chance then I understand your hesitancy, but a lot of people want to see that second chance.

I'm counting one from where I am sitting. Dust and WoD aren't 'shoehorning avatar gameplay' into a spaceship game.

Here, we go with the 'Two years of neglect' bullshit that you attribute to WiS, but actually have nothing to do with it. You got any sources? Or are you just happy to make stuff up?

Still posting? Not going to find some references/posts/proof for your bull earlier? If you can't back any of your posts, why are you posting?

So, you don't need proof to believe what you believe, because your going to believe it anyway right? Also, CCP, are working on World of Darkness, they mentioned a timid 2015 release date. That's Avatar content being developed continuously, using the CARBON engine. Working with Avatars on the same engine that Eve uses, might not be 'working on Avatar content for Eve', but it's pretty close. Once WoD is out, using that knowledge to add to Eve shouldn't be difficult.

You can argue that you don't want them working on stuff because it will hurt the game that you want Eve to be, but they are already doing that by dedicating an entire office worth of developers to developing a CARBON based Avatar game.

You really are a dumb ass. Yea, CCP has an office full of people working on a game they never intend to release. Of course, that makes perfect sense.

This is why CCP need to live up to their promise of making Eve into a living work of science fiction and the ultimate sci fi simulator.

Prob for the same reason that everything that comes from your mouth sounds like something from the special Olympics.

Plus the only person in this thread who attacks people personally is you.

WoD development is being re-animated. There is hope to see WiS before 2030 \o/ Maybe even before 2020 - but that would be too much to wish...

Doubt you will see any game or wis anytime soon... CCP no offence develops like a kid with ADD they only work on it tell something else shinny comes along..

People's responses regarding WiS on the CSM Vote Match will be taken into account when I select my ballot for the CSM9 election. I recommend everyone else who's participated in this thread to do the same. (Though not as sole criteria, of course.)

Well if your going to compete with SC I think you're going to have to do something. But what ever you do it has to be HUGE.

Unfortunately I doubt the player base will allow it. I refer to the summer of rage.

Perhaps, but I think that a lot of the general public sees them competing. Regardless of technical categorizations.

In SC people play space pilots and they have the option to play on one universe, be merchants, pirates who gank them and so on.

The first part is RPG, the latter is MMO, together I'd say it's MMORPG enough. Unless you don't consider "MMO" pirates ganking merchants, in which case EvE is not a MMO either.

It'll probably be a sort of SWTOR "single player friendly but you still play in a MMO" gameplay.

I've seen people commenting on unusually high amount of female candidates for this CSM. It seems CCP is going to test certain content on them. WiS maybe? I cannot imagine any other content within EVE which could be taken by male and female players differently.

It's inevitable that one day WIS will become part of the eve universe Rhes.

That's why I'd like to see it completed, it's no different to wanting to see sov revised as it's already in the game.

Why should anyone's fun be more valid than someone else's?
that's what he doesn't get.

To be fair, it's not that uncommon for fetishists and roleplayers to make international news.

Nothing anywhere requires that one's play style be validated in the international press.

How's that sov revamp coming?

Haven't you seen the two year old threadnaught where players from all across EVE voice their interest in a SOV revamp.

Oh that's right. There isn't one.

I hope now Atlanta with WoD developers could focus and work on WiS and connection between EVE, DUST and Valkyrie.
What would be the most logical thing that comes to my head

I can't see WiS ever being accepted by the majority of players until CCP finishes what they set out to do in regards to fixing this game. Adding lots more stuff just slows down that goal. People think it's somehow a popular idea now just because the majority of players don't bother to discuss it any longer, to object so much... to an old warn out topic really dead and buried for all intents and purposes.

You need ground shaking stuff at this point:

- WiS as walk in Station, Structure and Spaceship with aggression and ability to kill with a gun or knife
- Ship paint workshop like the character one
- Serious change to hangars: they need to be walkable, good looking and hold all my ships at the same time
- Serious DUST integration to the point that all current EVE players can play DUST on PC without having to switch to another game
- New type of missions that are either DUST related or WiS related

And then if CCP is really into Oculus, then adapt the whole of EVE to be used the with the FB device, preferably an alternative one.

Those are my 2 cents..

That's not what I have learnt from the beginning, that in fact EVE wanted to be a science fiction game that goes beyond space ships.

Here is an extract from an article released some time back:

"Most interestingly, Olafsson touched on the potential for the avatar component of Eve Online. Players may one day be able to leave their spacecraft and explore valuable ruins that populate the universe. These will not be closed instances, and Eve's critical sense of danger at all times will prevail. A typically bombastic visionary trailer outlining the future of the game was used to close the ceremony"

Link to article...
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-03-24-ccp-presents-its-vision-of-the-future-for-eve-online-and-dust-514

Honestly anyone who thinks the layoffs were sorely due to Incarna needs to do better research and stop blindly following what some other whining players have said.

Does legion satisfy the WiS fans?

But you can't deny that CCP has succesfully made a game that makes you irrationally passionate about things to the point that you'll make a fool of yourself repeatedly with the same repetitious garbage over and over and over again all because someone else is interested in something that you're not.

But in all honesty, If the idea of WiS annoys you so much, You probably shouldn't spend so much time engrossing yourself in it's community. Just sayin it's kind of like intentionally torturing yourself.

Thanks for clearing that up, I must have been crazy to think that all the outcry from the Dust community when legion was announced and would likely kill dust was born out of passion for something other than internet spaceships. I'd be lost without your infinite wisdom, insight, and guidance.

Man that was hard to say with a straight face! xD

According to those who understand the financial report from CCP,
DUST is profitable, thus it's successfull.

Your opinion on the matter is irrelevant.

CCP is much more interested in the long term rather than Unsustainable explosive growth in a short time frame that sputters out after a year or two.

neglected development on sapceships.