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Zack Sran
Gallium Industries Strategic Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.10.11 17:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ive been thinking alot about how you fix afk mining. An idea that i had was that on mining barges and exhumers you seperate the ore hold into an ore bay and an ore hold. The ore bay is what the mining yield goes to after a cycle, so make it like 1000m3 bigger then the perfect mining yeild for the ship. Now subtract that amount from the m3 of the current ore hold, and make that the ore hold. You have to actualy place the ore from the ore bay into the ore hold. If the ore bay gets filled the miners turn off just like they do when the ore hold gets filled now. This way solo miner only have to move ore from the bay to the hold and can still hold the same amount. Fleet miners are uneffected at all since they just take each cycle and put it in a can or orca, and afk miners cant mine more then 1 cycle.
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Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
141
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Posted - 2012.10.11 18:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
They already have similar on the other side of the equation: Asteroids. They rarely last more than a pull or two, so you have to change targets and start on the new one. Even in 0.0 I did not encounter many asteroids that lasted more than 4 or 5 cycles.
Ice fields granted are different. But making it more inconvenient for those that are not afk, just to try and counter those that are, I do not think is the answer.
~Z |
Gianath
Gallentian Legitimate Businessmen
53
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Posted - 2012.10.11 18:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Zack Sran wrote:Ive been thinking alot about how you fix afk mining. An idea that i had was that on mining barges and exhumers you seperate the ore hold into an ore bay and an ore hold. The ore bay is what the mining yield goes to after a cycle, so make it like 1000m3 bigger then the perfect mining yeild for the ship. Now subtract that amount from the m3 of the current ore hold, and make that the ore hold. You have to actualy place the ore from the ore bay into the ore hold. If the ore bay gets filled the miners turn off just like they do when the ore hold gets filled now. This way solo miner only have to move ore from the bay to the hold and can still hold the same amount. Fleet miners are uneffected at all since they just take each cycle and put it in a can or orca, and afk miners cant mine more then 1 cycle.
And your reasoning for making AFK mining impossible is.. ?
AFK mining isn't a problem to be corrected. It's a play style people adopt because a) They want to do other things (kids, studying, watch movies) while they mine and can't devote their full attention to the game, or b) They are running several miners and can only check in on each one for limited periods. If AFK mining isn't something that appeals to you, then leave it alone for the people that do pay for that privilege. |
Dasola
Rookie Empire Citizens Rookie Empire
61
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Posted - 2012.10.11 18:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
funny, i didnt know there is such huge problem on afk mining. asteroids are limited size and rarely last longer then couple cycles.
Ice mining is better for afk, but iceprice is low becouse of it.... So even that has been autonerfed by players. [Insert something funny or smart here] |
Piugattuk
CLOROFLORFILAPLANKTONPLATES
71
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Posted - 2012.10.11 18:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
So really now no AFK, first it was bots now it AFK, when will Mrs. Kravits leave people alone...howbout we just stop them game entirely this way there's bots, no AFK, no ganking, no pirates, no blobs, no nuets in FW, no farming, no mega corps, no no no no no no no NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NON NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO....the only solution is to fly nothing but pods. |
Javajunky
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
37
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Posted - 2012.10.11 19:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
Congratulations you have trained "I don't know what I'm talking about" to Level 5.
This skill book is not bought but blessed and automatically installed by the masses who sign up to play eve. This skill book is typically found under the Industry category because so many folks chime in about "what's wrong with mining" when they've never mined in null sec or WH or on an Corp Op or flown a Rorqual or done anything besides sit in a exhumer solo and stair at a rock for 10 minutes and decide my poorly thought out idea must be worthy of a forum post. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
699
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Posted - 2012.10.11 21:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Oh good. Another thread posing a solution to a non-existent problem.
This thread is now about "solving" AFK cloaking. |
Stigman Zuwadza
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
61
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Posted - 2012.10.11 21:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
*tongue in cheek*
AFK cloaking is not the problem, prolonged cloaking has no counter and is a risk free activity, ergo it needs a counter or some associated risk.
Fly safe. o7 CCP: Cloak Hunters - CSM6: Cautiously positive - Dec 2011 Summit - Minutes (pg. 22). Cloaking Technicalities Explained - CSM7 Town Hall Meeting - May 2012 |
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
219
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Posted - 2012.10.12 01:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Oh good. Another thread posing a solution to a non-existent problem.
This thread is now about "solving" AFK cloaking.
I was once an AFK cloaker, then I took a veldspar arrow to the knee |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1508
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 02:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
Zack Sran wrote:Ive been thinking alot about how you fix afk mining. An idea that i had was that on mining barges and exhumers you seperate the ore hold into an ore bay and an ore hold. The ore bay is what the mining yield goes to after a cycle, so make it like 1000m3 bigger then the perfect mining yeild for the ship. Now subtract that amount from the m3 of the current ore hold, and make that the ore hold. You have to actualy place the ore from the ore bay into the ore hold. If the ore bay gets filled the miners turn off just like they do when the ore hold gets filled now. This way solo miner only have to move ore from the bay to the hold and can still hold the same amount. Fleet miners are uneffected at all since they just take each cycle and put it in a can or orca, and afk miners cant mine more then 1 cycle.
This isn't a terrible idea but I have a better one, if you'll bear with me:
Make mining yield go into the cargo bay of exhumers.
That way cargo rigs are still beneficial, but miners absolutely have to pay attention more than once per hour. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
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Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
456
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Posted - 2012.10.12 03:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
If they really wanted to get rid of afk mining, they'd make every roid 1 or 2 cycles large at most. They'd also make ice in small blocks. Since they haven't done that, they must not care too much if people are "afk" while mining.
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Kara Books
Deal with IT.
220
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Posted - 2012.10.12 04:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
Im really not even sure any more what we're trolling any more, OP is trolling miners, others are trolling Caldari, Im trolling Fasion criminals, where is this going? |
TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
42
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 07:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
Zack Sran wrote:Ive been thinking alot about how you fix afk mining. An idea that i had was that on mining barges and exhumers you seperate the ore hold into an ore bay and an ore hold. The ore bay is what the mining yield goes to after a cycle, so make it like 1000m3 bigger then the perfect mining yeild for the ship. Now subtract that amount from the m3 of the current ore hold, and make that the ore hold. You have to actualy place the ore from the ore bay into the ore hold. If the ore bay gets filled the miners turn off just like they do when the ore hold gets filled now. This way solo miner only have to move ore from the bay to the hold and can still hold the same amount. Fleet miners are uneffected at all since they just take each cycle and put it in a can or orca, and afk miners cant mine more then 1 cycle.
While we're in the mood for throwing stupid suggestions out there, moon harvesters should operate in the above way also |
TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
42
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Posted - 2012.10.12 07:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
Stigman Zuwadza wrote:*tongue in cheek* AFK cloaking is not the problem, prolonged cloaking has no counter and is a risk free activity, ergo it needs a counter or some associated risk. Fly safe. o7
Given it's all about risk vs reward (or so I keep reading) prolonged cloaking has 0 reward, thus 0 risk is acceptable. |
Maximilien Noibzo
SALADE TOMATE OIGNONS
3
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Posted - 2012.10.12 12:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
I don't like cloaky miners neither. |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
193
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 15:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
Eliminating AFK mining would double the mineral prices again. Don't you think mineral prices have gone up enough after the drone POO nerf, and bot bans.
Mining has just been fixed. It is not perfect but is better now than it ever was.
It is not broke and does not need fixed.
AFK/semi AFK mining is not a problem. In fact all it does is keep mineral prices down. Which is something this game needs right now.
The war on bots will continue keeping them in check. If you see someone you suspect is a bot report them. If CCP does nothing about it and they are not banned, then assume they have been determined to not be a bot , regardless of what you believe.
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Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
193
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Posted - 2012.10.12 15:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
TheSkeptic wrote:Stigman Zuwadza wrote:*tongue in cheek* AFK cloaking is not the problem, prolonged cloaking has no counter and is a risk free activity, ergo it needs a counter or some associated risk. Fly safe. o7 Given it's all about risk vs reward (or so I keep reading) prolonged cloaking has 0 reward, thus 0 risk is acceptable. I agree, AFK cloaking, if truly done afk poses not risk or reward. Any who is cloaked while afk in your system is not threat to you.
If they are there spying, collecting intel, or waiting for someone to start a mining op their friends can hot drop on, then THEY ARE NOT AFK, in which case the mechanic is working as intended. If they are truly AFK they are no threat to you, it is all in your head.
Cloaky spys collecting intel is a valid game tactic. You want to "FIX" AFK cloaking, I say make the cloak remove the player from local. If you can not see them being on grid with them, why should you see them in local? This way AFK cloakers will will not affect activitry in a system as nobody will know they are even there. And players who actually use the cloaking mechanics as intended for collecting intel, and surprise attacks, will actually be more effective as nobody will see them coming.
It is not the AFK cloakers that are hurting you, but the non AFK cloakers you just thought were AFK. A true AFK cloaker only affects players who are excessively paranoid. |
Javajunky
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
39
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Posted - 2012.10.12 20:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:TheSkeptic wrote:Stigman Zuwadza wrote:*tongue in cheek* AFK cloaking is not the problem, prolonged cloaking has no counter and is a risk free activity, ergo it needs a counter or some associated risk. Fly safe. o7 Given it's all about risk vs reward (or so I keep reading) prolonged cloaking has 0 reward, thus 0 risk is acceptable. I agree, AFK cloaking, if truly done afk poses not risk or reward. Any who is cloaked while afk in your system is not threat to you. If they are there spying, collecting intel, or waiting for someone to start a mining op their friends can hot drop on, then THEY ARE NOT AFK, in which case the mechanic is working as intended. If they are truly AFK they are no threat to you, it is all in your head. Cloaky spys collecting intel is a valid game tactic. You want to "FIX" AFK cloaking, I say make the cloak remove the player from local. If you can not see them being on grid with them, why should you see them in local? This way AFK cloakers will will not affect activitry in a system as nobody will know they are even there. And players who actually use the cloaking mechanics as intended for collecting intel, and surprise attacks, will actually be more effective as nobody will see them coming. It is not the AFK cloakers that are hurting you, but the non AFK cloakers you just thought were AFK. A true AFK cloaker only affects players who are excessively paranoid.
Your arguement is flawed, in a non-friendly system cloaked / uncloaked - afk or present is simply a denial of access to resources period. You're suggestion to remove the player from local with a cloak is moronic at best, it's a noob pilot wanting to farm e-z kills, maybe people should just undock and warp to you can shoot them directly better yet why don't we log on to your client and shoot the ships for you so you have a nice killboard each month and just do nothing. Maybe CCP shoud be paying you to bless us with your presence in game a$$ clown.
If you want to disappear from local - WH space is that way ---> It is working as intended. |
CorInaXeraL
Order of the Silver Dragons Silver Dragonz
241
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 20:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kara Books wrote:Im really not even sure any more what we're trolling any more, OP is trolling miners, others are trolling Caldari, Im trolling Fasion criminals, where is this going?
Your mom went to college.
Also, just because I can? I'm gonna post this while AFK. |
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
222
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 21:47:00 -
[20] - Quote
CorInaXeraL wrote:Kara Books wrote:Im really not even sure any more what we're trolling any more, OP is trolling miners, others are trolling Caldari, Im trolling Fasion criminals, where is this going? Your mom went to college. Also, just because I can? I'm gonna post this while AFK.
Lets look into AFK cloaking. |
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Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
218
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Posted - 2012.10.12 21:51:00 -
[21] - Quote
We need to fix afk posting. Thats the biggest problem in Eve today. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
194
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 14:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
Javajunky wrote:Bugsy VanHalen wrote:TheSkeptic wrote:Stigman Zuwadza wrote:*tongue in cheek* AFK cloaking is not the problem, prolonged cloaking has no counter and is a risk free activity, ergo it needs a counter or some associated risk. Fly safe. o7 Given it's all about risk vs reward (or so I keep reading) prolonged cloaking has 0 reward, thus 0 risk is acceptable. I agree, AFK cloaking, if truly done afk poses not risk or reward. Any who is cloaked while afk in your system is not threat to you. If they are there spying, collecting intel, or waiting for someone to start a mining op their friends can hot drop on, then THEY ARE NOT AFK, in which case the mechanic is working as intended. If they are truly AFK they are no threat to you, it is all in your head. Cloaky spys collecting intel is a valid game tactic. You want to "FIX" AFK cloaking, I say make the cloak remove the player from local. If you can not see them being on grid with them, why should you see them in local? This way AFK cloakers will will not affect activitry in a system as nobody will know they are even there. And players who actually use the cloaking mechanics as intended for collecting intel, and surprise attacks, will actually be more effective as nobody will see them coming. It is not the AFK cloakers that are hurting you, but the non AFK cloakers you just thought were AFK. A true AFK cloaker only affects players who are excessively paranoid. Your arguement is flawed, in a non-friendly system cloaked / uncloaked - afk or present is simply a denial of access to resources period. You're suggestion to remove the player from local with a cloak is moronic at best, it's a noob pilot wanting to farm e-z kills, maybe people should just undock and warp to you can shoot them directly better yet why don't we log on to your client and shoot the ships for you so you have a nice killboard each month and just do nothing. Maybe CCP shoud be paying you to bless us with your presence in game a$$ clown. If you want to disappear from local - WH space is that way ---> It is working as intended. NO, sorry, It is your argument that is flawed.
I get what you are describing. I know there are many players like you who feel when there is a cloaked unfriendly ship in your system that there is to much risk to go out mining or what ever null bear activity you want to do. My answer is get over it. NULL sec is dangerous. either learn to live with it or move to high sec.
An AFK cloaked player does not deny you access to anything. they are AFK. If you Choose not to do anything in that system while an AFK cloaker is present that is your choice. Null sec is dangerous, even in friendly space. If they are truly AFK there is no actual threat.
You completely missed the point I was trying to make. If there is a neutral or even unfriendly pilot sitting cloaked in your system. If they are in fact AFK then they are not at their screen to see anything, or to tell their friends what you are doing. They are a ZERO threat.
If they are actually spying on you, and you just think they might be AFK, then you need to decide whether or not the risk is worth it. If a single cloaked ship is to much of a threat to you, that you are afraid to undock than WTF are you doing in null?? You are far to paranoid, even high sec will scare someone like you.
If you follow the first rule of EVE, "do not fly what you can not afford to lose" what is the problem? Sure the AFK cloaker might check in at a bad time for you and you might end up losing your ship if you are not ready. So what, it is EVE, people die. After all it was a ship you could afford to lose right?
What I said about removing cloaked ships in local was to show how stupid some players really are. You obviously got the point, as you commented about how this would make cloaked pilots even more dangerous. But answer this, How can an AFK pilot kill you, cloaked or not?
I am not arguing that a cloaked pilot is not dangerous. But the topic that keeps coming up is not about cloaked pilots, But to FIX AFK cloaking. My point is that if they are AFK they are no more a threat than if they were not even there.(thus might as well remove them from local) When in fact it is the NON-AFK pilots using this mechanic as intended that you are actually afraid of.
If the issue is in fact AFK cloakers, which are not a threat as an AFK pilot can not do anything to hurt you. Then removing them from local is a complete and perfect fix. But if the problem is in fact NON-AFK pilots who use the cloaking mechanic to spy on you as it was intended for, removing them from local will make them even more dangerous.
Based on your comments of cloaked pilots killing you, I would say it is not the AFK cloakers you really have a problem with, but the NON-AFK pilots who are actually a real threat. So stop complaining about AFK cloakers when an AFK pilot is no threat to you.
Cloaking is an espionage mechanic added to the game to make spies and covert operations feasible. This is working as intended. If you are to paranoid to undock when there is an unfriendly cloaked ship in your system than that is your paranoia that is locking out your resources not some AFK pilot.
Stop crying. your NULLBEAR tears are just feeding the pilots you hate so much. You are no better than a carebear miner complaining about getting ganked.
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Celgar Thurn
Department 10
58
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Posted - 2012.10.15 15:19:00 -
[23] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:Eliminating AFK mining would double the mineral prices again. Don't you think mineral prices have gone up enough after the drone POO nerf, and bot bans.
Mining has just been fixed. It is not perfect but is better now than it ever was.
It is not broke and does not need fixed.
AFK/semi AFK mining is not a problem. In fact all it does is keep mineral prices down. Which is something this game needs right now.
The war on bots will continue keeping them in check. If you see someone you suspect is a bot report them. If CCP does nothing about it and they are not banned, then assume they have been determined to not be a bot , regardless of what you believe.
The mining profession was not broken prior to the rebalancing of mining vessels. I was and to a degree still am opposed to the rebalancing of mining vessels although the increased EHP was helpful. Post - rebalancing of mining vessels the mining profession is still not broken. Prices for ores/minerals found in high sec are where they should be for mining to be viable as a career option. Infact they could probably do with being a tad higher than they are now.
Even miners who try to afk mine cannot do so for that long before having to return to the keyboard to empty or move the ore. So afk mining is something of a misnomer. What is definately a problem is the use of afk within computer programs that enable bots/RMTers to mine 23.5 hours per day. I believe CCP are attacking this problem although I don't think CCP have released any precise figures on this.
Afk within other areas of the game such as in complexes or COSMOS areas etc is more of a problem which CCP is, or will, solve/conquer. Rats with more intelligent AI will probably be used to solve this and I suspect they could be deployed within asteroid belts to solve the RMT/Bot problem as well with some thought. CCP have decided not to allow Rats to pod capsuleer ships but I think this may be handy option to implement if bot ships could be destroyed wholesale. |
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
58
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 15:28:00 -
[24] - Quote
Regarding mining in nul-sec systems I have never got involved in mining in nul-sec space but it is obvious that you have to be well set up to do it efficiently. A large fleet would be essential probably running 23.5 hours a day although obviously with shifts and different pilots. Stargates have to be locked down with combat ships along with combat ships with the mining fleet/s at their location/s. To do it adhoc or in an unplanned way is to invite disaster. If you are doing it right cloaky ships should pose too much of a problem. |
Marsan
Production N Destruction INC.
51
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 17:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
Damn it we need to fix the afk cloaked mining posting issue ASAP!!! |
CorInaXeraL
Order of the Silver Dragons Silver Dragonz
242
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 17:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
Marsan wrote:Damn it we need to fix the afk cloaked mining posting issue ASAP!!!
I vote hi-sec mini titans with the original Doomsdays. |
Zetaomega333
HIFI INDUSTRIAL Unclaimed.
16
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 17:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
Zack Sran wrote:Ive been thinking alot about how you fix afk mining. An idea that i had was that on mining barges and exhumers you seperate the ore hold into an ore bay and an ore hold. The ore bay is what the mining yield goes to after a cycle, so make it like 1000m3 bigger then the perfect mining yeild for the ship. Now subtract that amount from the m3 of the current ore hold, and make that the ore hold. You have to actualy place the ore from the ore bay into the ore hold. If the ore bay gets filled the miners turn off just like they do when the ore hold gets filled now. This way solo miner only have to move ore from the bay to the hold and can still hold the same amount. Fleet miners are uneffected at all since they just take each cycle and put it in a can or orca, and afk miners cant mine more then 1 cycle.
Im sorry but only bad miners use macks instead of hulks since the hulks pull 20.5% more m3 than a mack, We allready cant hold more than one cycle so i fail to see the point here. |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
685
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 18:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
The lack of a competitive edge over AFK players and bots is what basically kills mining as an active profession. There is also no reward of player-skill (besides indirectly, being able to mine ABC or optimized mining-logistics).
Some PI-like 'mini-game', boosting the yield exponentially by keeping the lasers in the 'red' and adding some additional challenges to reward player-skill has always been the most popular idea to improve mining. Perhaps even adding some ways for further increasing the collective yield through more (active) cooperation.
Sure, it's not perfect, but the amount of player-support this idea has gotten over the years, means its likely good enough to at least fix the mining profession.
Combine this with a reduction of the quality and quantity of the fixed asteroid fields, in favor of moving the bulk of the economy's mineral production to Gravimetric sites, tweaking respawn-mechanics to allow regional scarcity. The demand for exploration and the potential for conflict will further reward well-organized miners over the solo casuals. Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
927
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 19:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
Gianath wrote:
And your reasoning for making AFK mining impossible is.. ?
AFK mining isn't a problem to be corrected. It's a play style people adopt because a) They want to do other things (kids, studying, watch movies) while they mine and can't devote their full attention to the game, or b) They are running several miners and can only check in on each one for limited periods. If AFK mining isn't something that appeals to you, then leave it alone for the people that do pay for that privilege.
Excuse me, but AFK EVE is a bad thing, m'kay. Just bad. |
Reticle
Sight Picture
50
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Posted - 2012.10.15 19:47:00 -
[30] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Gianath wrote:
And your reasoning for making AFK mining impossible is.. ?
AFK mining isn't a problem to be corrected. It's a play style people adopt because a) They want to do other things (kids, studying, watch movies) while they mine and can't devote their full attention to the game, or b) They are running several miners and can only check in on each one for limited periods. If AFK mining isn't something that appeals to you, then leave it alone for the people that do pay for that privilege.
Excuse me, but AFK EVE is a bad thing, m'kay. Just bad. No its not. There's nothing wrong with it at all. If CCP can't be bothered to provide something entertaining to do during the 5 minute ice harvester cycle, it's reasonable for me to grade papers while my miners grind away.
if you really have a problem with it, don't ever dock up and go to the bathroom. don't cloak up and go to the bathroom. Don't go to a safe and go to the bathroom. LOG OUT and go to the bathroom. AFK is AFK, right? Don't take your hands off your mouse or the keyboard. Don't take your eyes off the screen. NEVER flip between clients that you can't see. Never flip to another program, an internet browser or anything else. Never move away from the computer while your ship is in warp. When you fly your freighter 30 jumps through high sec, don't take your eyes off the next gate icon. From the moment you log in, until the moment you log out, stay glued to the keyboard, even when there is no reason to.
Get real. |
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