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Jasper Dark
Strip Miners in Space
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 11:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
Been a long while since I did them and never successfully 
I'm looking at my direction in Eve and I may try incursions...
Are they worth doing? risk vs reward? |

Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
909
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 11:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jasper Dark wrote:Been a long while since I did them and never successfully  I'm looking at my direction in Eve and I may try incursions... Are they worth doing? risk vs reward?
They're pretty decent in nullsec. The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |

Jasper Dark
Strip Miners in Space
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 11:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
Thanks for the reply, but I'm quite happy in High-sec 
/queue the people moaning.... |

Ammzi
Imperial Guardians
1038
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 12:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thorn Galen wrote:Jasper Dark wrote:Been a long while since I did them and never successfully  I'm looking at my direction in Eve and I may try incursions... Are they worth doing? risk vs reward? They're pretty decent in nullsec.
For those not aware of sarcasm:
- Not a single lowsec nor nullsec incursion has been completed/finished/won ever since the incursion nerf back in late spring 2012.
GF ccp  quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
|

Omega Sunset
Caldari Roughnecks
62
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 12:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
So, how is incursions in hisec? eh, I was flying home tonight some 25 jumps, pathing through hisec and came across a few systems with incursions going. No one was doing them... just a few people jumping through the gates like me. I've heard some months ago that they were worthless, but I don't know, their just systems with pretty colors to me, need more systems looking like that. But from what I saw, you could have them all by yourself... if you could. |

Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
120
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 12:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
100 mil an hour in a good fleet.
Considerably less in a bad fleet. Not today spaghetti. |

Jasper Dark
Strip Miners in Space
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 12:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
Omega Sunset wrote: I've heard some months ago that they were worthless.
Yeah that's what I heard too, hence my question. Don't know if they are "fixed" or if that's the norm now.
Sexy Cakes wrote:100 mil an hour in a good fleet.
Considerably less in a bad fleet.
Sounds reasonable  |

Aziesta
Sathainn Braithrean Cartel Apocalypse Now.
74
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 12:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Omega Sunset wrote:they're just systems with pretty colors to me, need more systems looking like that If by "pretty" you mean "sickly green" and by "more" you mean "none".
|

Baljos Arnjak
Dark Praetorian Order
31
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 13:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aziesta wrote:Omega Sunset wrote:they're just systems with pretty colors to me, need more systems looking like that If by "pretty" you mean "sickly green" and by "more" you mean "none".
Hey, I don't know about you but I like the God Rays. I think they should enable them in all systems, just not the green tint to everything. Maybe have them more pronounced as you get closer to the sun, but just adding that effect would do a lot to spruce up EvE's lighting.
|

Adoro
Reikoku The Retirement Club
15
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 13:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
They are your time worthwhile if you get a decent gang together (10+) in faction battleships. Nightmares, Machariels and Vindicators + some logistics. You make 100mil a hour easily if you keep grinding them.
Getting the gang together is the hardest part, incursions itself are boring-ish. But still better than most ISK making activities because they're kinda hard to do. PVP-level dps from NPC's + jamming. You need to think ahead about your tactics (like instapop them jamming ships) and work together as a team.
Ask about in the incursion channel (when you're in an incursion system it will pop up) about current gangs and see if you can join one. The better incursion groups do expect you to have a good fitted ship though (read above) so prepare to pay up for that faction bs. |
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Jasper Dark
Strip Miners in Space
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 13:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Adoro wrote:They are your time worthwhile if you get a decent gang together (10+) in faction battleships. Nightmares, Machariels and Vindicators + some logistics. You make 100mil a hour easily if you keep grinding them.
Ah so you need some top end shiny ships.... Think I'll give it a miss for now, maybe in a few months time...  |

Adoro
Reikoku The Retirement Club
15
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 13:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jasper Dark wrote:Adoro wrote:They are your time worthwhile if you get a decent gang together (10+) in faction battleships. Nightmares, Machariels and Vindicators + some logistics. You make 100mil a hour easily if you keep grinding them. Ah so you need some top end shiny ships.... Think I'll give it a miss for now, maybe in a few months time... 
Well i've seen people do them in lesser ships, but this also means less money payout. So it is doable if you accept the fact you wont make money as fast. Sidenote though, chances of a running incursion group to accept you in the fleet are slim as they rather fill that spot with someone who does fly a faction bs. |

Maximillion Jacobe
JORP Co.
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 14:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
they are a lot of fun, and i highly recommend them but you need to be able to fit a well fit battleship to participate in them
for the best incursion experience:
- run with a reputable group, join channels 'BTL Pub' 'The ditanian fleet' 'The valhalla project' or 'BTL armor', follow their rules and fitting suggestions
- be prepared to haul ass around new eden a lot when the incursions move -- focus training one useful ship type is best so you're not carting **** around all the time. unless you have a freighter/orca to move stuff easily
- you can learn a lot about fleet comp, FCing, running a proper gang w/ logistics etc from these guys
- joining pickup groups from the general 'incursion' channel will get you killed and you'll be flying with idiots.. most people who frequent and fleet out of public are griefers or eejits who were kicked out of the above channels for various reasons
Incursions are a great way to make friends, make money and will teach you a lot about how to roll with a proper gang -- a lot of the tactics and procedures are applicable to lowsec and nullsec pvp gangs
Most useful ships:
- Logistics ships (always get first pick) - Mach's / Nightmares (for shield fleets) - no idea about armor fleets other than logi
Least useful ships:
- missile boats (just don't)
you'll encounter a lot of 'fitting elitism' in vanguard fleets.. so if you can't fly a shiny i would recommend assault or HQ fleets.. they tend to be more welcoming to non cookie-cutter fits
|

Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
21
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 14:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jasper Dark wrote:Adoro wrote:They are your time worthwhile if you get a decent gang together (10+) in faction battleships. Nightmares, Machariels and Vindicators + some logistics. You make 100mil a hour easily if you keep grinding them. Ah so you need some top end shiny ships.... Think I'll give it a miss for now, maybe in a few months time...  Well, from what I heard from people flying in newb fleets (who fly BCs, tech 1 BSs (and logi ofc) in Vanguards), they make like 70 mil/hour if people don't suck. That doesn't sound great at first, but given investment those people can afford and skills of their toons that kinda 2-3 times better than, say, L4s at rates they could do them.
All this is a very rough estimation though; on top of that it does not account time for people to reach incursions and make up a fleet, though having dedicated community helps. |

Algol Bailiwick
Bunnie Slayers Redrum Fleet
12
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 15:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
Maximillion Jacobe wrote: - no idea about armor fleets other than logi
I've had the best experiences with compositions close to 3xLegion, 3xVindi/Kronos, 3xlogi. |

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
348
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 16:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
Adoro wrote:They are your time worthwhile if you get a decent gang together (10+) in faction battleships. Nightmares, Machariels and Vindicators + some logistics. You make 100mil a hour easily if you keep grinding them.
Getting the gang together is the hardest part, incursions itself are boring-ish. But still better than most ISK making activities because they're kinda hard to do. PVP-level dps from NPC's + jamming. You need to think ahead about your tactics (like instapop them jamming ships) and work together as a team.
Ask about in the incursion channel (when you're in an incursion system it will pop up) about current gangs and see if you can join one. The better incursion groups do expect you to have a good fitted ship though (read above) so prepare to pay up for that faction bs.
You should tell the OP that once the new bounty system kicks, in, there will be many griefers in the Incursion channels examining each fit posted to select players to but bounties on for maximum payout / grief tears.
There will be squads of suicide griefers aka bounty hunters stalking every gate in and out of Incursion systems, just waiting for the high bounty/ high priced ships to come through. |

Korinne
The Partisan Brigade Republic Alliance
25
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 16:23:00 -
[17] - Quote
Incursions are an isk faucet at this point. Are they risk free? No, but the risk is wholly predictable and thus avoidable as it contains no human element. The only way I think incusions could work long term would be if they moved them all to lowsec, the very fact that they exist in high sec makes no real sense anyway. |

Astroniomix
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
275
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 16:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Adoro wrote:They are your time worthwhile if you get a decent gang together (10+) in faction battleships. Nightmares, Machariels and Vindicators + some logistics. You make 100mil a hour easily if you keep grinding them.
Getting the gang together is the hardest part, incursions itself are boring-ish. But still better than most ISK making activities because they're kinda hard to do. PVP-level dps from NPC's + jamming. You need to think ahead about your tactics (like instapop them jamming ships) and work together as a team.
Ask about in the incursion channel (when you're in an incursion system it will pop up) about current gangs and see if you can join one. The better incursion groups do expect you to have a good fitted ship though (read above) so prepare to pay up for that faction bs. You should tell the OP that once the new bounty system kicks, in, there will be many griefers in the Incursion channels examining each fit posted to select players to but bounties on for maximum payout / grief tears. There will be squads of suicide griefers aka bounty hunters stalking every gate in and out of Incursion systems, just waiting for the high bounty/ high priced ships to come through. So? You don't get kill rights on someone just because they have a bounty. And putting a bounty on someone just to gank them is a bit silly as you haven't made any more money than if you had just blown them up. As for ganking someone that another person put a bounty on, this is as intended so you will have to watch out. |

Ginger Barbarella
State War Academy Caldari State
178
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 17:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
Take a decent ship into Scouts and they can be fun. Get into some good, trustworthy fleets and higher end can be fun and profitable.
Aside from that, meh. I personally loved the Live Events when they happened. Those were a kick in the shorts!  |

Maximillion Jacobe
JORP Co.
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 17:32:00 -
[20] - Quote
Korinne wrote:Incursions are an isk faucet at this point. Are they risk free? No, but the risk is wholly predictable and thus avoidable as it contains no human element. The only way I think incusions could work long term would be if they moved them all to lowsec, the very fact that they exist in high sec makes no real sense anyway.
-1
Not everybody wants to play eve to PVP.. It's as simple as that and people need to accept it. If there are not 'relatively' safe ways to make money, fleet up and enjoy the game in highsec a sizable number of subscribers will leave, and this game will die.
Besides, there are plenty of options to grief incursion runners into the ground.. I know suicide ganking logi ships was popular for a while, and can ruin a fleets day.
Incursions in lowsec will just get perma-camped by pirates. Hi sec players are not there to provide an unending stream of kills to lowsec players (though the tend to do this enough as is without CCP making it a requisite mechanic) |
|

MIrple
BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team
147
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 17:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
Maximillion Jacobe wrote:Korinne wrote:Incursions are an isk faucet at this point. Are they risk free? No, but the risk is wholly predictable and thus avoidable as it contains no human element. The only way I think incusions could work long term would be if they moved them all to lowsec, the very fact that they exist in high sec makes no real sense anyway. -1 Not everybody wants to play eve to PVP.. It's as simple as that and people need to accept it. If there are not 'relatively' safe ways to make money, fleet up and enjoy the game in highsec a sizable number of subscribers will leave, and this game will die. Besides, there are plenty of options to grief incursion runners into the ground.. I know suicide ganking logi ships was popular for a while, and can ruin a fleets day. Incursions in lowsec will just get perma-camped by pirates. Hi sec players are not there to provide an unending stream of kills to lowsec players (though the tend to do this enough as is without CCP making it a requisite mechanic) EDIT: if the lowsec / nullsec incursions are going unused, the solution is very simple. Make them more financially rewarding to the point that the risk incurred is worth it.
Read this slowly and carefully. There is no amount of isk that will bring the risk adverse players of hi-sec to low or null. They want to play as risk free a game as possible and this will never change. |

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
384
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 17:52:00 -
[22] - Quote
Korinne wrote:Incursions are an isk faucet at this point. Are they risk free? No, but the risk is wholly predictable and thus avoidable as it contains no human element. The only way I think incusions could work long term would be if they moved them all to lowsec, the very fact that they exist in high sec makes no real sense anyway.
Incursions are broken in LO & NULL SEC moving them there will not fix them. They actually make a lot more sense in HI SEC then in NULL SEC: Why should Concord pay bounties in NULL anyways if they don't control out there? Incursions make alot more sense in role playing terms in HISEC: that is where Master Kuvarki wants to do the most damage for his revenge.
Right now Incursions are about 1/8th the ISK faucet of Wormholes and 1/25th the ISK faucet of Bounties. Even Mission Bonus payouts are a larger ISK faucet then Incursions right now post Escalation NERF. The Incursion communites are still there but they are a ghost of what they were after the Escalation DECIMATION
Meta-gaming for NULL SECCers:Whine on the forums like a little ***** until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up. |

Maximillion Jacobe
JORP Co.
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 18:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
MIrple wrote:Maximillion Jacobe wrote:Korinne wrote:Incursions are an isk faucet at this point. Are they risk free? No, but the risk is wholly predictable and thus avoidable as it contains no human element. The only way I think incusions could work long term would be if they moved them all to lowsec, the very fact that they exist in high sec makes no real sense anyway. -1 Not everybody wants to play eve to PVP.. It's as simple as that and people need to accept it. If there are not 'relatively' safe ways to make money, fleet up and enjoy the game in highsec a sizable number of subscribers will leave, and this game will die. Besides, there are plenty of options to grief incursion runners into the ground.. I know suicide ganking logi ships was popular for a while, and can ruin a fleets day. Incursions in lowsec will just get perma-camped by pirates. Hi sec players are not there to provide an unending stream of kills to lowsec players (though the tend to do this enough as is without CCP making it a requisite mechanic) EDIT: if the lowsec / nullsec incursions are going unused, the solution is very simple. Make them more financially rewarding to the point that the risk incurred is worth it. Read this slowly and carefully. There is no amount of isk that will bring the risk adverse players of hi-sec to low or null. They want to play as risk free a game as possible and this will never change.
Untrue.. a massive number of incursion runners are alts of people who live in low and null.. if the risk was large enough, they would go..
It was not totally uncommon to see incursion runners in lowsec running the sites.. they even had escape plans and posses setup to deal with the pirates.. but since the nerf, isk return went down, they don't run them anymore.
Edit: I know this first hand having killed and chased many an incursion fleet w/ my -10.. Since the nerf, we simply don't see them anymore. |

MIrple
BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team
147
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 19:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
Maximillion Jacobe wrote:MIrple wrote:Maximillion Jacobe wrote:Korinne wrote:Incursions are an isk faucet at this point. Are they risk free? No, but the risk is wholly predictable and thus avoidable as it contains no human element. The only way I think incusions could work long term would be if they moved them all to lowsec, the very fact that they exist in high sec makes no real sense anyway. -1 Not everybody wants to play eve to PVP.. It's as simple as that and people need to accept it. If there are not 'relatively' safe ways to make money, fleet up and enjoy the game in highsec a sizable number of subscribers will leave, and this game will die. Besides, there are plenty of options to grief incursion runners into the ground.. I know suicide ganking logi ships was popular for a while, and can ruin a fleets day. Incursions in lowsec will just get perma-camped by pirates. Hi sec players are not there to provide an unending stream of kills to lowsec players (though the tend to do this enough as is without CCP making it a requisite mechanic) EDIT: if the lowsec / nullsec incursions are going unused, the solution is very simple. Make them more financially rewarding to the point that the risk incurred is worth it. Read this slowly and carefully. There is no amount of isk that will bring the risk adverse players of hi-sec to low or null. They want to play as risk free a game as possible and this will never change. Untrue.. a massive number of incursion runners are alts of people who live in low and null.. if the risk was large enough, they would go.. It was not totally uncommon to see incursion runners in lowsec running the sites.. they even had escape plans and posses setup to deal with the pirates.. but since the nerf, isk return went down, they don't run them anymore. Edit: I know this first hand having killed and chased many an incursion fleet w/ my -10.. Since the nerf, we simply don't see them anymore. Edit2: 'hisec is not safe'.. they are at risk from suicide gankers, war targets infiltrating their fleets, spies winding up in fleet command positions kicking or breaking bonuses, people pre-spawning sites and just the sites in general if they are running HQ's.. There is risk to incursions, appropriate to risks expected in highsec.. What you're really saying here is you want them in lowsec/nullsec so you can score easy kills with your uber PVP blob and sorry, that's not gonna happen. There should be decent money to be made in hisec imo.. It takes a lot of coordination and effort to roll the big HQ fleets.. in fact i firmly believe their isk output should be increased vs vanguards and assaults further than it is.
I never said anything about getting them into low/null for kills. All I am saying is that the people that fly around in empire in there 5 bill plus incursion ships will never move into low/null no matter how large the reward is. |

Maximillion Jacobe
JORP Co.
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 19:03:00 -
[25] - Quote
MIrple wrote:Maximillion Jacobe wrote:MIrple wrote:Maximillion Jacobe wrote:Korinne wrote:Incursions are an isk faucet at this point. Are they risk free? No, but the risk is wholly predictable and thus avoidable as it contains no human element. The only way I think incusions could work long term would be if they moved them all to lowsec, the very fact that they exist in high sec makes no real sense anyway. -1 Not everybody wants to play eve to PVP.. It's as simple as that and people need to accept it. If there are not 'relatively' safe ways to make money, fleet up and enjoy the game in highsec a sizable number of subscribers will leave, and this game will die. Besides, there are plenty of options to grief incursion runners into the ground.. I know suicide ganking logi ships was popular for a while, and can ruin a fleets day. Incursions in lowsec will just get perma-camped by pirates. Hi sec players are not there to provide an unending stream of kills to lowsec players (though the tend to do this enough as is without CCP making it a requisite mechanic) EDIT: if the lowsec / nullsec incursions are going unused, the solution is very simple. Make them more financially rewarding to the point that the risk incurred is worth it. Read this slowly and carefully. There is no amount of isk that will bring the risk adverse players of hi-sec to low or null. They want to play as risk free a game as possible and this will never change. Untrue.. a massive number of incursion runners are alts of people who live in low and null.. if the risk was large enough, they would go.. It was not totally uncommon to see incursion runners in lowsec running the sites.. they even had escape plans and posses setup to deal with the pirates.. but since the nerf, isk return went down, they don't run them anymore. Edit: I know this first hand having killed and chased many an incursion fleet w/ my -10.. Since the nerf, we simply don't see them anymore. Edit2: 'hisec is not safe'.. they are at risk from suicide gankers, war targets infiltrating their fleets, spies winding up in fleet command positions kicking or breaking bonuses, people pre-spawning sites and just the sites in general if they are running HQ's.. There is risk to incursions, appropriate to risks expected in highsec.. What you're really saying here is you want them in lowsec/nullsec so you can score easy kills with your uber PVP blob and sorry, that's not gonna happen. There should be decent money to be made in hisec imo.. It takes a lot of coordination and effort to roll the big HQ fleets.. in fact i firmly believe their isk output should be increased vs vanguards and assaults further than it is. I never said anything about getting them into low/null for kills. All I am saying is that the people that fly around in empire in there 5 bill plus incursion ships will never move into low/null no matter how large the reward is.
They won't take their 5 bil incrusion ship to low/null.. That doesn't mean they won't take something cheaper to low/null to run a site with .. Half the reason people run those crazy fits is ton win contested sites.. Cheaper fits are ok in lowsec incursions are you are not generally being contested for them.
|

MIrple
BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team
147
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 19:10:00 -
[26] - Quote
Maximillion Jacobe wrote:
They won't take their 5 bil incrusion ship to low/null.. That doesn't mean they won't take something cheaper to low/null to run a site with .. Half the reason people run those crazy fits is ton win contested sites.. Cheaper fits are ok in lowsec incursions are you are not generally being contested for them.
People run those crazy fits because its about isk/hr. And if there was as big a risk as you make it sound in empire incursions these fleets would be rare. Why would someone who can make 100 mill an hour go to low and make less an hour then they would in empire, they wouldn't.
|

Maximillion Jacobe
JORP Co.
1
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 19:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
MIrple wrote:Maximillion Jacobe wrote:
They won't take their 5 bil incrusion ship to low/null.. That doesn't mean they won't take something cheaper to low/null to run a site with .. Half the reason people run those crazy fits is ton win contested sites.. Cheaper fits are ok in lowsec incursions are you are not generally being contested for them.
People run those crazy fits because its about isk/hr. And if there was as big a risk as you make it sound in empire incursions these fleets would be rare. Why would someone who can make 100 mill an hour go to low and make less an hour then they would in empire, they wouldn't.
Never said there was a 'big' risk.. It's hisec, there shouldn't be a 'big' risk just a measurable one.. Arguing that it's broken just because people want to stay in hisec because it's more profitable makes no sense.
At what point did CCP ever say the objective of hisec was to be devoid of money making opportunity and population? Incursions were created *specifically* to give hisec players an option to fleet up and run large gang pve operations, cuz that's what they were asking for.
It's a sandbox, if people want to play in the shallow end, then they are allowed.
I can make a **** ton more than 100mil isk/hour running plexes or level 5's in lowsec, or running anom's in null sov space so i fail to see exactlty what is 'broken' here. after incursions the best option was level 4's which yelds what.. 20-30 million an hour if you blitz like hell? that's crap money. Hiseccers should not be 'punished' just because they don't want to play the average pvpers view of what EVE should be all about. |

MIrple
BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team
147
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 20:06:00 -
[28] - Quote
Maximillion Jacobe wrote:MIrple wrote:Maximillion Jacobe wrote:
They won't take their 5 bil incrusion ship to low/null.. That doesn't mean they won't take something cheaper to low/null to run a site with .. Half the reason people run those crazy fits is ton win contested sites.. Cheaper fits are ok in lowsec incursions are you are not generally being contested for them.
People run those crazy fits because its about isk/hr. And if there was as big a risk as you make it sound in empire incursions these fleets would be rare. Why would someone who can make 100 mill an hour go to low and make less an hour then they would in empire, they wouldn't. Never said there was a 'big' risk.. It's hisec, there shouldn't be a 'big' risk just a measurable one.. Arguing that it's broken just because people want to stay in hisec because it's more profitable makes no sense. At what point did CCP ever say the objective of hisec was to be devoid of money making opportunity and population? Incursions were created *specifically* to give hisec players an option to fleet up and run large gang pve operations, cuz that's what they were asking for. It's a sandbox, if people want to play in the shallow end, then they are allowed. I can make a **** ton more than 100mil isk/hour running plexes or level 5's in lowsec, or running anom's in null sov space so i fail to see exactlty what is 'broken' here. after incursions the best option was level 4's which yelds what.. 20-30 million an hour if you blitz like hell? that's crap money. Hiseccers should not be 'punished' just because they don't want to play the average pvpers view of what EVE should be all about.
I never argued it was broken I just stated that by increasing the payouts from the ones in low or null will not cause a move of the Incursion runners of hi-sec to low or null.
As things are at currently 100 mill an hour is fair to make in hi-sec. Maybe it needs to be toned down slightly 75~90 mill an hour should be a fair match to the risk. Null sec players can make more then that when/if they have a break from the wars and a quiet system to rat in. Empire runners never have to take a break as they don't have CTA's or Reds camping there systems.
I am not for making Incursions only low or null as this would drive people out of the game as that is not most empire players play style.
I do not agree with your point about hi sec not being safe for incursion runners. A measurable risk is 1 out of 20 times my ship dies. not once in a blue moon something might happen. Please post the last time an blingy Incursion ship has been lost. You have a greater chance of losing a ship in a lvl 4 then an incursion.
The problem with ISK is this game is very old and has a ton of isk that has been stocked up over the years. There have never been enough sinks to maintain a balance. Incursion have not helped it but have not hurt it as much as people claim it has. |

Korinne
The Partisan Brigade Republic Alliance
30
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 20:08:00 -
[29] - Quote
Maximillion Jacobe wrote:Korinne wrote:Incursions are an isk faucet at this point. Are they risk free? No, but the risk is wholly predictable and thus avoidable as it contains no human element. The only way I think incusions could work long term would be if they moved them all to lowsec, the very fact that they exist in high sec makes no real sense anyway. -1 Not everybody wants to play eve to PVP.. It's as simple as that and people need to accept it. If there are not 'relatively' safe ways to make money, fleet up and enjoy the game in highsec a sizable number of subscribers will leave, and this game will die. Besides, there are plenty of options to grief incursion runners into the ground.. I know suicide ganking logi ships was popular for a while, and can ruin a fleets day. Incursions in lowsec will just get perma-camped by pirates. Hi sec players are not there to provide an unending stream of kills to lowsec players (though the tend to do this enough as is without CCP making it a requisite mechanic) EDIT: if the lowsec / nullsec incursions are going unused, the solution is very simple. Make them more financially rewarding to the point that the risk incurred is worth it.
I agree, there should be relatively risk free ways to make isk; I am not saying that there shouldn't be. What I am saying is that one of the best ways to make isk quickly shouldn't also be one of the safest. It's completely unhinged from risk reward. If you put them all in lowsec, it engages everybody; the mission runners, the pirates, the alliances, everyone; and that way it is justifiable when you're hauling billions of isk out of them. Furthermore, it actually encourages players to interact with each other, join larger coalitions and form groups to achieve a greater goal, which in the end makes it all the more rewarding. |

Maximillion Jacobe
JORP Co.
2
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Posted - 2012.10.16 20:14:00 -
[30] - Quote
MIrple wrote:Maximillion Jacobe wrote:MIrple wrote:Maximillion Jacobe wrote:
They won't take their 5 bil incrusion ship to low/null.. That doesn't mean they won't take something cheaper to low/null to run a site with .. Half the reason people run those crazy fits is ton win contested sites.. Cheaper fits are ok in lowsec incursions are you are not generally being contested for them.
People run those crazy fits because its about isk/hr. And if there was as big a risk as you make it sound in empire incursions these fleets would be rare. Why would someone who can make 100 mill an hour go to low and make less an hour then they would in empire, they wouldn't. Never said there was a 'big' risk.. It's hisec, there shouldn't be a 'big' risk just a measurable one.. Arguing that it's broken just because people want to stay in hisec because it's more profitable makes no sense. At what point did CCP ever say the objective of hisec was to be devoid of money making opportunity and population? Incursions were created *specifically* to give hisec players an option to fleet up and run large gang pve operations, cuz that's what they were asking for. It's a sandbox, if people want to play in the shallow end, then they are allowed. I can make a **** ton more than 100mil isk/hour running plexes or level 5's in lowsec, or running anom's in null sov space so i fail to see exactlty what is 'broken' here. after incursions the best option was level 4's which yelds what.. 20-30 million an hour if you blitz like hell? that's crap money. Hiseccers should not be 'punished' just because they don't want to play the average pvpers view of what EVE should be all about. I never argued it was broken I just stated that by increasing the payouts from the ones in low or null will not cause a move of the Incursion runners of hi-sec to low or null. As things are at currently 100 mill an hour is fair to make in hi-sec. Maybe it needs to be toned down slightly 75~90 mill an hour should be a fair match to the risk. Null sec players can make more then that when/if they have a break from the wars and a quiet system to rat in. Empire runners never have to take a break as they don't have CTA's or Reds camping there systems. I am not for making Incursions only low or null as this would drive people out of the game as that is not most empire players play style. I do not agree with your point about hi sec not being safe for incursion runners. A measurable risk is 1 out of 20 times my ship dies. not once in a blue moon something might happen. Please post the last time an blingy Incursion ship has been lost. You have a greater chance of losing a ship in a lvl 4 then an incursion. The problem with ISK is this game is very old and has a ton of isk that has been stocked up over the years. There have never been enough sinks to maintain a balance. Incursion have not helped it but have not hurt it as much as people claim it has.
Run w/ some TVP HQ fleets.. I would say almost daily at least 1 or 2 ships are lost, at least it was that way when i ran with them.. usually logi, sometimes shiny's.. Through no fault of the FC's (usually) there is just a **** ton of DPS in those sites and if everyone is not 100% focused often someone pays the price.. mothership sites as well, often claim victims
assaults and vg's less so, but i only run incursions once in a blue moon and almost every time i decide to someone is talking about such and such a ship that was lost earlier that day.. I've seen as many as 3 shiny faction BS go down in one day to HQ sites. |
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