tl;dr: the new bounty system gives the ability to mark any hisec miner for death by putting only a 20 mil ISK bounty on their head. Thoughts?

Now i wished we could put bounty on ALL the pods ................ ^_^

You can put a bounty on a whole corp? Well if the bounty system allows people to put bounties on anyone, I guess a lot of people won't even care about making a profit. Some people will just gank them because they can.

The payouts apply to pod kills too. Killing a 1 billion ISK pod pays out 100 mil ISK (so long as the existing bounty is big enough to cover it).

That's interesting. So you can place a really low bounty on a corp and then kill anyone you want without being attacked by CONCORD.

That's interesting. So you can place a really low bounty on a corp and then kill anyone you want without being attacked by CONCORD.

No. Bounties have no effect on CrimeWatch.

I can't find it in F&I.

Of course those suicide gankers will now not be able to enter Highsec for 30 days without being killable by almost everyone around him.

Of course those suicide gankers will now not be able to enter Highsec for 30 days without being killable by almost everyone around him. So pros and cons really.

Different, but not better or worse in my opinion.

Of course those suicide gankers will now not be able to enter Highsec for 30 days without being killable by almost everyone around him. So pros and cons really.

The best part is that you think kill rights will be meaningful after Winter.

Different, but not better or worse in my opinion.

Of course those suicide gankers will now not be able to enter Highsec for 30 days without being killable by almost everyone around him. So pros and cons really.

The best part is that you think kill rights will be meaningful after Winter.

Looking forward to encouraging ganking on shiny Incursion fleets.

Of course those suicide gankers will now not be able to enter Highsec for 30 days without being killable by almost everyone around him. So pros and cons really.

nice of you to think you can ridicule me for something you thought I meant

Maybe not for alt gankers or semi-permanent nullbears on a holiday, but at least it stops "tourist" suicide ganking, per se.

I never said the killright would be game-changing (nice of you to think you can ridicule me for something you thought I meant), but they will be there and they will affect some people significantly.

Well i think it can (not sure if it will) create an interesting dynamic where you have gankers killing miners and miners selling kill rights to bounty hunters, and bounty hunters killing gankers

So after reading the article, it seems the new bounty system will keep high-sec players firmly in high-sec. If you place a bounty on a miner, they are still relatively safe in high-sec but in low sec they are an open target. They will never enter low-sec.

So, now you're talking crap because people responded to what you *actually* said ?

Way to go, really.

All I said was the the killrights were a con to the bounty's pro. Admittedly only if your not using alts, and if your not going to spend the next 30 days in null/low anyway. Even without those two, it is still a restriction. For 30 days, if they enter highsec they can't go anywhere near any trade hubs without dying, simple as that. They've already said the killrights will be obvious, visible and activated by anyone.

You may think my comment was stupid, but only because your too stubborn and stupid to think about it thoroughly.

I can't help but note that if all these people crying for the violent death of carebears actually had their way anyone who shoots stuff for a living will have to spend even more time grinding isk to pay for ships getting more expensive when production dwindles due to lack of minerals.

To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight, out run, or out wit your competitors.
If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set as the rest of the player base.

... why do you react to something you thought i implied, although i didn't ?

So, now you're talking crap because people responded to what you *actually* said ?

Way to go, really.

It's not really an issue, except for those who can't adapt.

I said almost exactly that a few posts ago.



That's what you replied.



Above, you just reworded what I said in the original post you laughed at.

Different, but not better or worse in my opinion.

Of course those suicide gankers will now not be able to enter Highsec for 30 days without being killable by almost everyone around him. So pros and cons really.

You mean like we can't enter high-sec today because we are outlaws?

Good. Bring back the time when losses actually meant something.

That's interesting. So you can place a really low bounty on a corp and then kill anyone you want without being attacked by CONCORD.

Well i think it can (not sure if it will) create an interesting dynamic where you have gankers killing miners and miners selling kill rights to bounty hunters, and bounty hunters killing gankers

I like the idea I saw somewhere. If you kill a ship while flagged criminal, you pay the insurance payout for that ship. And you cannot board a ship with a negative wallet.

I like the idea I saw somewhere. If you kill a ship while flagged criminal, you pay the insurance payout for that ship. And you cannot board a ship with a negative wallet.

That's a pretty awful idea considering what a meta-game punishment a negative wallet is.

Legitimate gameplay should not remove your ability to play the game.

-10 ganking alts are not out and about for anyone to use killrights on. They log in at a safe spot, get a ship from an orca, warp to the gank site, do the gank, warp back to the safespot and log out.

When in that sequence are you going to exercise killrights? The few seconds when they are at the gank site? Chances are concord will beat you to it. And you hardly are rendering retribution to the ganker, he is losing his ship to concord in any case. When they reposition for ganking in a different system? They will just use a shuttle or a pod, almost impossible to catch and even if caught a trivial loss. These are low skill alts that can get by on alpha level clones with no implants. This is an issue with the system: a -10 ganking alt is not really punished for doing another gank, they just lose a cheap ship.

I like the idea I saw somewhere. If you kill a ship while flagged criminal, you pay the insurance payout for that ship. And you cannot board a ship with a negative wallet.

I know what real punishment would be. Ban the other two charslots as soon as one char hits -10.

Hell, ban all other accounts associated to that player ! Force them to commit to being -10 !

That's a pretty awful idea considering what a meta-game punishment a negative wallet is.

Legitimate gameplay should not remove your ability to play the game.

You can still play the game. You can log in, warp about, sell assets, chat. But actions should have consequences.

In practice, a -10 ganking alt that gets a negative wallet would just have its wallet pumped back up by the main.

You can still play the game.

But actions should have consequences.

But tell you what? Why won't we do that, and then make it so that if you undock with any cargo in your hold that is worth more than the ship it is in, you are automatically fined that full over-value and this will also bring your wallet into negative. If you dock up with the same cargo, your fine is refunded. After all, actions (such as willingly and unduly putting your ship at risk) should have consequences, right?

That sounds like a good idea ... and miners wouldn't be affected, so it can't actually be that bad !

no bounty, no matter how large, will make someone a legal target in highsex.

*facepalm*

If you attack a defenseless miner, ylou are weak, pathetic, and cannot PVP for crap. Hulkageddon is one of the dumbest ideas anywhere.

Edit: Apparently I fail at reading. The bounties devblog clearly states 20%, not 10%, as the intended payout rate. So, in light of that, some revised figures for how many destroyers a gank can pay for:

• Hulk (~200 mil) = 16 destroyers
• Mackinaw (~190 mil) = 14 destroyers
• Covetor (~35 mil) = 4 destroyers
• Retriever (~25 mil) = 2 destroyers

Thanks go to Shederov Blood for pointing this out. Shederov, I didn't reply to your mail beause I have better things to do with 1 mil than pay your CSPA charge.

If you attack a defenseless miner, ylou are weak, pathetic, and cannot PVP for crap. Hulkageddon is one of the dumbest ideas anywhere.

Confirming I'm weak, pathetic, and can't PvP for crap (I really can't, I'm terrible).

So, uh, what does that actually mean for me anyway?

Why, it means that you're a no-life 35-year-old virgin living in your parents' basement, of course.

Someone please send my wife and kid the memo, I gotta call mom...

I have better things to do with 1 mil than pay your CSPA charge.

Someone please send my wife and kid the memo, I gotta call mom...

Don't jeopardize an otherwise happy double-life!

lol, sorry.
That was for the people in the trade hubs trying to sell me cheap "navy issue" ships.

Why, it means that you're a no-life 35-year-old virgin living in your parents' basement, of course.

If you attack a defenseless miner, ylou are weak, pathetic, and cannot PVP for crap. Hulkageddon is one of the dumbest ideas anywhere.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm terrible at PvP... but I don't grief people in HiSec because I'm terrible at PvP, I grief people in HiSec because it's fun, and it's fun thanks to people like you.

So after reading the article, it seems the new bounty system will keep high-sec players firmly in high-sec. If you place a bounty on a miner, they are still relatively safe in high-sec but in low sec they are an open target. They will never enter low-sec.

If kill rights have an expiration date, they will be pointless. Kill rights should function just like the bounty system. It only expires when the same value has been destroyed.

Example:
I kill some guys ship that is total in value of 100m ISK. He has kill rights on me until him or someone he sells the kill right to has inflicted 100m ISK in damages to me.

An eye for an eye if you will.

Ryhss for CSM!

Soooo just set the kill right price at 100 million?

tl;dr: the new bounty system gives the ability to mark any hisec miner for death by putting only a 20 mil ISK bounty on their head. Thoughts?

---

So, the new bounty system offers partial bounty payouts on ship kills, equal to 10% of the ISK lost by the target. This payout decreases the total value of the bounty. So, let's look at some numbers:

A gank-fit Catalyst (neutron blasters, prop/point, and damage) costs about 2-3 mil ISK. Let's call it 2.5 mil ISK.

A Hulk hull is hovering at just below 200 mil ISK. Let's toss the fittings in and call that a straight 200 mil. The payout for killing one of these? 200/10 = 20 mil ISK. In Catalysts? 20/2.5 = 8. So, as long as the gankers use fewer than 8 Catalysts, they will be making money.

Other "profitable ganking" margins in the same vein:

• Mackinaw (~190 mil) = 7 Catalysts; think that's enough to break a Mack's tank?
• Covetor (~35 mil) = ~2 Catalysts
• Retriever (~25 mil) = 1 Catalyst

You can replace the Catalyst with a Thrasher if you like artillery alpha more (for 0.9 and 1.0 sec ganking). The payout for each of these is more than enough to fund and even profit off of suicide ganking, even after the mining buff.

The question, of course, is "who would put bounties on miners?" Other miners (who wish to not be ganked themselves, and try to get more attention on others), trolls with far too much money to spend, and other people who wish to see hisec mining become a more "active" activity (James 315?). It also makes Hulkageddon far, far easier to distribute rewards for (I'm looking at you, Goonswarm).

As icing on the cake, bounties can be placed not only on individual miners, but on mining corps, too -- which leads to an indirect bounty on all members.

So... is this a welcome change? How do you think it will affect hisec? Is it a "stealth nerf" to mining? Will this mark the return of Hulkageddon Forever?

Discuss.

Edit: Apparently I fail at reading. The bounties devblog clearly states 20%, not 10%, as the intended payout rate. So, in light of that, some revised figures for how many destroyers a gank can pay for:

• Hulk (~200 mil) = 16 destroyers
• Mackinaw (~190 mil) = 14 destroyers
• Covetor (~35 mil) = 4 destroyers
• Retriever (~25 mil) = 2 destroyers

Thanks go to Shederov Blood for pointing this out. Shederov, I didn't reply to your mail beause I have better things to do with 1 mil than pay your CSPA charge.

fly procurer
tank at least the mids and rigs
...
laugh as people spend 8+ t2 fitted destroyers to kill your 10m isk barge for a 2m isk bounty payout

btw your suggested retail value of t2 fitted destroyer is way low.. the 2.5m isk desty you speak of does 250 dps not the 600dps you need to succeed. a more accurate appraisal can be found in the losses below


http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=1372922&view=losses&m=8&y=2012

15.5m per gankboat looks about average.

8+ cats for a procurer = 124m spent to kill a 6m hull and 5m in fitting for a 2.2m bounty
7 cats for a mack = 108m spent to kill 170m hull and 15m in fitting for a 37m bounty
2 cats for a cov = 31m spent to kill a 29m hull 15m in fitting for a 9m bounty
1 cat for a triever = 15.5m spent to kill a 20m hull and 10m in fitting for a 6m bounty