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Bolka
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Posted - 2003.07.04 08:47:00 -
[1]
Was the timing on jettison intended? Or is it a side effect that is going to be fixed?
It wasn't in the preview release notes. And by the way, where can we find proper release notes?
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Tnelyos
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Posted - 2003.07.04 08:57:00 -
[2]
it's supposed to be a 5 minute timer. but it's borked right now. some people are having trouble with it. =\
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Bolka
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Posted - 2003.07.04 09:01:00 -
[3]
Where did you get this information? and what do you mean it's borked?
What is it supposed to achieve?
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SISQO
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Posted - 2003.07.04 09:06:00 -
[4]
Carebears complained about people container spamming and lagging them in which resulted in their loss of their ship. It was BS, they needed an excuse for their embarassing death. Containers don't lag you, other players in their ships lag you, get it straight. So now its 5 minutes...wonderful.
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Silmaril
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Posted - 2003.07.04 09:09:00 -
[5]
Can't you just put the ore into the one container you've already jettisoned? That doesn't use the timer does it?
"Do not waste your tears. I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men." |
Bolka
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Posted - 2003.07.04 09:11:00 -
[6]
If this is really the reason, then it's a pretty silly way to deal with it, since it bothers a lot more players than pirates using an exploit. Strip mining was fun, and now it's become awkward.
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Jebac Wolnosc
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Posted - 2003.07.04 09:13:00 -
[7]
Containers don't lag you, other players in their ships lag you, get it straight. So now its 5 minutes...wonderful.
If you're right about that then why did CCP introduce the delay? Seems to me that the lagging comments were true and hence CCP implemented this feature. And don't give me some rubbish about caving into "carebear" demands, because we all know that CCP isn't stupid enough to do that. The developers are trying to create a balanced system here, close all the exploits. If this change is a***** then you know who to blame... the *******s who were manipulating the system, either by accident or on purpose.
BTW, the containers will cause lag. Any changes in the content of a system requires more data to me sent. That's a fact. Now whether this lag is significant is another issue.
Edited by: Jebac Wolnosc on 04/07/2003 09:14:21
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.07.04 09:16:00 -
[8]
"Can't you just put the ore into the one container you've already jettisoned? That doesn't use the timer does it?"
The current systems can prevent the player from jettisoning even the first container -- i'd guess the system gets somehow stuck and doesn't trigger actual jettison routine after the timer gets down to 0.
Also, since the containers are supposed to explode after 2 hours or so i don't think you could use just one of them for very long... o.O
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SISQO
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Posted - 2003.07.04 09:26:00 -
[9]
Jebac I see what your saying, it true sending more data will lag you. However many times I have gone on NPC Pirate hunting trips and I've warped into belts where there are literally nearly a hundred containers left by belt campers killing the pirates, no lag at all. I move onto the next belt, and it takes a good 15-25 seconds to load, what do I see 5 npc pirates and one player. Maybe its just me...who knows.
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Jebac Wolnosc
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Posted - 2003.07.04 09:29:00 -
[10]
I move onto the next belt, and it takes a good 15-25 seconds to load, what do I see 5 npc pirates and one player. Maybe its just me...who knows.
I guess it depends on your connection. More data will be sent, so it is entirely possible that lag will occur. You're probably experiencing it more with ships because they're actually on the move, as opposed to cargo which stand stills. But who are we to say that others aren't experiencing these problems with containers? I have some faith that CCP know what they're doing and I don't believe they'd chuck in this feature if a a few people who complained about lag were actually wrong. Surely CCP would know best?
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Shivash
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Posted - 2003.07.04 09:31:00 -
[11]
So far I havn't had a problem ejecting an initial can, it's instant everytime I've done it SO FAR...
I have had the timer reset on me a couple of times but what I found was more reliable was to eject the ammo I had in my hold to create the can. It seems more reliable if your ejecting something that hasn't changed size ( ore in 5 mins will have gone through 5 size changes ).
I also start creating a new can after around 40 mins. Plenty of time to fiddle with the timer.
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Bolka
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Posted - 2003.07.04 09:33:00 -
[12]
Actualy I never thought about it, but it's true that when strip mining I never noticed any lag being in the middle of dozens of cargo containers, and having to defend the miners.
If this is not the reason for this weird feature, then what is?
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SISQO
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Posted - 2003.07.04 09:34:00 -
[13]
I'm not sure they know best, a timer on jettisoning seems reasonably correct in helping those experiencing container lag. But 5 minutes, come on thats extreme. That totally killed mining operations. Or hell even while pirate hunting you want to jettison something for more space for another loot, you have to wait 5 minutes. Makes it extremely difficult to sort loot, makes you think twice, thrice, to jet something. Its proven more of an annoying and hindrance in regular activities then it does help those who experience container lag from those small number of players that try to use it to lag others.
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Jebac Wolnosc
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Posted - 2003.07.04 09:37:00 -
[14]
If this is not the reason for this weird feature, then what is?
Indeed.
But 5 minutes, come on thats extreme.
No, I agree, 5 mins might be extreme. Ideally we wouldn't have any delay but when a-holes start exploiting features, what can you do? Perhaps they should add an item that speeds up the jettison? Have a default of 5 mins but be able to attach something that speeds the process up. Design it so that it'd only really be useful on a miner (give a penalty to shields, speed or hull), that way those using it to cause container lag (assuming that is happening), won't use it, since they tend to be in fighters.
Edited by: Jebac Wolnosc on 04/07/2003 09:37:42
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Ruulex DeMors
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Posted - 2003.07.04 09:40:00 -
[15]
Instead of adding Mods that speed up the jetison timer. Why don't you just make it to where jetisoning takes....50% of your Cap (varies per ship)...
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Interm-CEO for EVE Marshals
http://www.EVEMarshals.com |
SISQO
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Posted - 2003.07.04 09:43:00 -
[16]
I'd have to totally disagree with taking a shield/armor/hull hit or any other penalties to speed up the jettisoning process. Its just kicking stuff out of your cargohold, its a very simple procedure!
This is like waiting 5 minutes for your car trunk to open so you can take (jettison) stuff out. And with penalties, it takes half your gas tank, and half your battery during the process. I'd like to see this happen in new model cars and watch the boycotts and riots...
Edited by: SISQO on 04/07/2003 09:43:39
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Jebac Wolnosc
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Posted - 2003.07.04 09:48:00 -
[17]
Its just kicking stuff out of your cargohold, its a very simple procedure!
Not really. One could argue that it'd depend on the design of the ship, the cargo you're ejecting/scooping up or your character's ability to use the technology. There are a number of possibilities. I do appreciate where you're coming from though. It is frustrating and ideally they'd be no delay, but we have to make compromises here.
Ruulex DeMors' idea is a good one.
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Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2003.07.04 10:29:00 -
[18]
>>
That totally killed mining operations. Or hell even while pirate hunting you want to jettison something for more space for another loot, you have to wait 5 minutes.
>>
Oh come off it. For mining jettison one containter and then drag and drop from your hold to the container. For loot, just drag your kit into the container and drag whatever you want back again.
Regardless of whether or not dropping huge numbers of cargo pods makes a difference to lag (in my experience it does have some effect when I'm hunting drones) - it was perceived to be having one. As such the relatively minor inconvenience of jettisoning through a chute rather than instantly is well worth not having to read page after page of argument over it on the forums or the in-game chat channels.
Have fun
Finn |
SISQO
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Posted - 2003.07.04 10:45:00 -
[19]
"Oh come off it. For mining jettison one containter and then drag and drop from your hold to the container. For loot, just drag your kit into the container and drag whatever you want back again."
That will be a fine solution once I am able to tow my jettisoned container from belt to belt. Oh wait, I can't.
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Krashtest
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Posted - 2003.07.04 11:34:00 -
[20]
You dont have to jettison anything to make room, just drag what you dont need into the container that has what you want to place in your hold.
Your Mega Afocal Pulse Maser I perfectly strikes Asteroid (Veldspar) [R0ME], wrecking for 798.3 damage.
Your 425mm Railgun I perfectly strikes Guardian Captain, wrecking for 685.9 damage.
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SISQO
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Posted - 2003.07.04 11:41:00 -
[21]
You guys are failing to grasp the point. Ok let me give a long detailed description of what I mean.
1) Warp into belt kill pirates, 5 containers.
2) Approach containers, grab 4 containers, no more room for 5th container. Jettison a module in my hold for the item in container 5. Works like a charm.
3) Warp to next belt, kill pirates, 3 containers. Container 1 and 2, crap, blow it up, container 3 has good pirate loot. Try to jettison something less favorable in my cargohold. OOPS, you cannot jettison anything for the next 4 minutes and 30 seconds.
4) Rinse and repeat over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
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Shivash
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Posted - 2003.07.04 11:45:00 -
[22]
With the reduced size of the loot this will take a while to happen. I went hunting last night and retreated with hull damage before I ran out of cargo space. Yes it COULD be a slight issue, but it's not a big problem. Either be more selective with your loot selection or just accept you'll have to dock occasionally. You example is unlikely to happen though as your probably only taking up aroudn 100 units from 8 containers. Probably less.
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Jebac Wolnosc
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Posted - 2003.07.04 11:48:00 -
[23]
container 3 has good pirate loot. Try to jettison something less favorable in my cargohold. OOPS, you cannot jettison anything for the next 4 minutes and 30 seconds.
Hold on, what is stopping you taking the thing you want to jettison and putting it into the cargo hold of the pirate loot, then taking the pirate loot and putting it into your hold?
I never jettison cargo unless I'm mining and someone else will pick it up. When I gather pirate loot and I'm full but find something more favourable in another cargo pod I do the above. I just don't see what the problem is here RE pirate loot.
Edited by: Jebac Wolnosc on 04/07/2003 11:50:53
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SISQO
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Posted - 2003.07.04 11:48:00 -
[24]
It was an example to show those who could not grasp what I was talking about. So of course the actual numbers are off. Plus the weight of modules seem TOO light, I smell another slegdehammer hit coming..
Edit: Don't make to make another post, so I'll edit this to reply to Jabec.
Yea, I could do that, thanks for reminding me, I must have forgotten about that in my anger =)
But after you solving that, how about this one.
After I dump the less favorable loot, and grab the one I want from container 3. I'm done and head back to station. On the way back a friend wants a module, must I wait 4 minutes before I can give it to him? You would probably say keep doing the 20 jumps to the nearest station until you can jettison another one. However, its a hassle to stop in between and meet up and give him it. I would like to jettison it get it over with, and mwd the 20 jumps to station non-stop. Its just a matter of annoyance.
Edited by: SISQO on 04/07/2003 11:55:05
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Tristan
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Posted - 2003.07.04 12:06:00 -
[25]
maybe instead of they way it is now, there should be a number of cans restriction, say 2 per person, then 5 minutes before you can drop another 2. that should solve everyones woes.
Or how about this for a novel *shock horror!* idea = actually banning the people who exploit for a change.
Edited by: Tristan on 04/07/2003 12:07:19
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Cade Evans
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Posted - 2003.07.04 12:10:00 -
[26]
Or simply make it impossible to have more than 5 cargo containers you've made floating around in the same system.
And that the pirate loot cans do not count in this number.
Edited by: Cade Evans on 04/07/2003 12:12:52
"Human females prefer movies depicting one person dying slowly. The male prefers movies showing many people dying quickly." |
SISQO
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Posted - 2003.07.04 12:12:00 -
[27]
Now we got the ball rolling, these suggestions seems MUCH more reasonable then 5 minute delays...who comes up with these nerfs anyway? I mean FIX, fix, not nerf.
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Scruluse
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Posted - 2003.07.04 12:19:00 -
[28]
It's just another example of CCP worrying more about the "pirate" corps than what's really important. They should have fixed the bugs, such as the content refresh in containers, instead of making changes to them based on their obsession with m0o. Most of us couldn't care less what corps like m0o are doing or how they're doing it.
BTW, the timer is bugged. It reset on me 3 times yesterday trying jettison a can. Took me 20 minutes just to jettison. CCP, please remember that you have other customers besides those few that don't know how NOT to get killed.
Scruluse
Old Farts |
Jebac Wolnosc
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Posted - 2003.07.04 12:20:00 -
[29]
On the way back a friend wants a module, must I wait 4 minutes before I can give it to him?
Arhh, now that's something else. I've always said that there should be a trade option in space.
As for dumping it for a mate, well I never jettison unless mining, as I said, so that wouldn't be a problem for me. But that's just me.
Like I said, this isn't a perfect solution, hence we need to come up with better ideas.
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Bolka
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Posted - 2003.07.04 12:34:00 -
[30]
Lots of good points in this thread. I also find it sad the way CCP has reacted to something that affects a minority with something that affects the majority.
Another solution would be to automatically add the jettisoned material to any of your container that is within a few miles, if there is any. Therefore not 'creating' additional containers.
It may not be easy to do since the system will have to remember who's the owner of the container, which may not be implemented at the moment.
Edited by: Bolka on 04/07/2003 12:39:22
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