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How Would You Change Nullsec?

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Nicolo da'Vicenza Air The Unthinkables 2000	Posted - 2012.10.20 22:14:00 - [91] - Quote Touval Lysander wrote: Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Karrl Tian wrote: Make it a completely separate shard that couldn't have ISK sent to characters there. No more pvp'ers cheating the system with highsec alts and highsec PvE, they would actually have live and PvE in all that wonderful empty space they own. just fix industry and I'm right there with you bud I'm still buzzed on this. So we need to divert CCP to improve indy because you're what..... too lazy? It's like, what, 10 seconds to log out and log back in on your highsec indy alt and build/research away in complete safety at a HS POS. Not like you have to actually TRAVEL.... This post is a classic example of the sociopathic mentality common among 'carebears'; the telltale lack of empathic or emotional development to be able to consider the health of the game they play as a whole. All that matters to them is their immediate gratification, benefit to themselves. "Who cares if the majority of the game and EVE's new players (the future) are stuck ice mining trying to undercut bots and multiboxers, doesn't effect me!" Quote: 1) Maybe you could try building MORE stations in your space. 2) Do your production/research in POS's like a huge chunk of us "carebears" already do and have done for years. 3) Get your alliances to stop charging so much fn refining tax so nullbears aren't forced to jump it out. 4) Get your corps/alliances to actually DEFEND the miners so they can drag in low/mid and high minerals/ice. Any alliance that has followed any of the policies you laid out has died miserable deaths long, long ago at the hands of those who didn't. All of these suggestions have been proven to be bad. Alliances that have outsourced industry to highsec however rule with an iron fist.
Lord Zim 1808	Posted - 2012.10.20 22:15:00 - [92] - Quote Karl Hobb wrote: The rest involves nerfing high-sec into the ******* dirt (manufacturing, incursions, missions, etc...) and converting a large number of high-sec systems into low-sec so that holding sov null gives a competitive advantage on all fronts, and low-sec becomes pretty much what high-sec is now; a place for the small groups to play and make money. You can give sov null a competitive advantage without scaremongering about nerfing it into the ground, or making the various empires basically hisec islands. Small, careful nerfs to manufacturing install costs, refine rates and maybe even make manufacturing in hisec less efficient (i.e. use a bit more minerals) than low/null, and you could be well on your way if this was preceeded by a huge buff in nullsec industry and if this was implemented as a gradual change instead of the usual CCP way (i.e. drop an atom bomb on everything). Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Air The Unthinkables 2001	Posted - 2012.10.20 22:17:00 - [93] - Quote Andski wrote: Touval Lysander wrote: Maybe you could try building MORE stations in your space. we could fill an entire region with upgraded outposts and we'd still have less slots than some hisec systems thank you for your valuable npc alt insights on 0.0 logistics lol
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5252	Posted - 2012.10.20 22:17:00 - [94] - Quote Touval Lysander wrote: Been there, did it sorry 0.0 was too hard for you and you were forced to go back to the "everybody wins" welfare world that is hisec This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Federation posting cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online posting. fofofofofo
Karl Hobb Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium 832	Posted - 2012.10.20 22:20:00 - [95] - Quote Lord Zim wrote: You can give sov null a competitive advantage without scaremongering about nerfing it into the ground, or making the various empires basically hisec islands. Small, careful nerfs to manufacturing install costs, refine rates and maybe even make manufacturing in hisec less efficient (i.e. use a bit more minerals) than low/null, and you could be well on your way if this was preceeded by a huge buff in nullsec industry and if this was implemented as a gradual change instead of the usual CCP way (i.e. drop an atom bomb on everything). I admit I was thinking more in a "if I had designed EVE" mode. Nothing Found
Hans Zwaardhandler Borealis Mining Concern 22	Posted - 2012.10.21 00:15:00 - [96] - Quote If the primary reason people want to change null around is because of the rewards vs. the risk compared to highsec is too different and not in a good way, why not buff null rewards instead? Increase the rewards and payout of anoms and incursions that happen in null (while making lowsec incursions more profitable due to the fact they are in lowsec and not in a sea of blue).
qDoctor Strangelove TaskF0rce Executive Vice Empire 43	Posted - 2012.10.21 00:35:00 - [97] - Quote If they removed level 3 and 4 agents in empire, and fixed FW, I could live without Local in eve. But, I would rather have more station slots. And when it comes to pos manufacturing, that would require CCp to change mechanics. As it is today it is not possible for anyone beyond alt corps to do this.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Air The Unthinkables 2002	Posted - 2012.10.21 00:35:00 - [98] - Quote Hans Zwaardhandler wrote: If the primary reason people want to change null around is because of the rewards vs. the risk compared to highsec is too different and not in a good way, why not buff null rewards instead? Increase the rewards and payout of anoms and incursions that happen in null (while making lowsec incursions more profitable due to the fact they are in lowsec and not in a sea of blue). Well, in the case of manufacturing, the amount of buffs needed to make the highsec status quo of 'unlimited, concord-protected, free manufacturing slots capable of building all ships and modules in high, low and null with room to spare' would be so stupendously heavy that they would likely introduce their own problems. I feel the most feasible way of getting nullsec players to manufacture in nullsec would be to make changes that 1) make it possible so that all nullsec manufacturing can be done in 0.0 and 2) make it not possible so that all nullsec + highsec + low + wh manufacturing can be done in highsec. I don't feel that comes across some sort of evil plan crafted with the express intent to harm hisec players, but some people in this thread seem to act like it.
Touval Lysander Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 439	Posted - 2012.10.21 00:37:00 - [99] - Quote Andski wrote: Touval Lysander wrote: Maybe you could try building MORE stations in your space. we could fill an entire region with upgraded outposts and we'd still have less slots than some hisec systems thank you for your valuable npc alt insights on 0.0 logistics You err.... overlooked the POS... The MORE stations was a poke in the chest. Using a POS - like most do - is a poke at your brain. But there was NO COMMENT.... You make it far too easy. "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Touval Lysander Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 439	Posted - 2012.10.21 00:40:00 - [100] - Quote Lord Zim wrote: Touval Lysander wrote: Been there, did it - the biggest setbacks to indy in 0.0 are at ALLIANCE level. I don't think you have. Edit: Been there, that is. I'm not the highsec char hiding behind a 0.0 alt. Coward. "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Mina Sebiestar Mactabilis Simplex Cursus 107	Posted - 2012.10.21 00:41:00 - [101] - Quote sent in massive jove fleet to clean shiet up clean. "it put ore down in can or it gets the hose again" http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
Gilbaron Free-Space-Ranger Ev0ke 380	Posted - 2012.10.21 00:42:00 - [102] - Quote i would actually like to place a bounty on Touval Lysander with the new system coming up, so sad he's an NPC alt :( Oh, CCP would you please expand the block user functionality so that i don't have to read replies to shitpostings ?
Lord Zim 1809	Posted - 2012.10.21 00:53:00 - [103] - Quote Touval Lysander wrote: Andski wrote: Touval Lysander wrote: Maybe you could try building MORE stations in your space. we could fill an entire region with upgraded outposts and we'd still have less slots than some hisec systems thank you for your valuable npc alt insights on 0.0 logistics You err.... overlooked the POS... The MORE stations was a poke in the chest. Using a POS - like most do - is a poke at your brain. But there was NO COMMENT.... You make it far too easy. When was the last time you tried to do any large-scale production (i.e. freighters worth of BS manufacturing every day, all the mods used in the fit, etc) in a POS? Touval Lysander wrote: I'm not the highsec char hiding behind a 0.0 alt. Coward. Says the buttmad NPC corp poster. vOv Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 1818	Posted - 2012.10.21 00:59:00 - [104] - Quote The best change for null would be to add space. "What space?", you ask. I'm glad you asked. The space currently occupied by that boil on New Eden's ass known as low sec. And toss high sec a bone. Give them the 0.4 space. Mr Epeen There is no excuse beyond fatalistic self-indulgence and sheer laziness for doing nothing --á Iain Banks
Touval Lysander Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 439	Posted - 2012.10.21 01:02:00 - [105] - Quote Lord Zim wrote: Touval Lysander wrote: Andski wrote: Touval Lysander wrote: Maybe you could try building MORE stations in your space. we could fill an entire region with upgraded outposts and we'd still have less slots than some hisec systems thank you for your valuable npc alt insights on 0.0 logistics You err.... overlooked the POS... The MORE stations was a poke in the chest. Using a POS - like most do - is a poke at your brain. But there was NO COMMENT.... You make it far too easy. When was the last time you tried to do any large-scale production (i.e. freighters worth of BS manufacturing every day, all the mods used in the fit, etc) in a POS? Touval Lysander wrote: I'm not the highsec char hiding behind a 0.0 alt. Coward. Says the buttmad NPC corp poster. vOv I built caps in lowsec - at a POS. I built thousands of mods - in a POS. I built many freighters/Orcas - in a POS. I researched/buffed billions of isk worth of BPO's - at a POS. EVERYTHING I can build/research in highsec I can do in 0.0 - AND more. Indy is not suffering in 0.0 because of a lack of infrastructure - it's lack of DESIRE. Period. "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Lord Zim 1809	Posted - 2012.10.21 01:03:00 - [106] - Quote Gilbaron wrote: i would actually like to place a bounty on Touval Lysander with the new system coming up, so sad he's an NPC alt :( Oh, CCP would you please expand the block user functionality so that i don't have to read replies to shitpostings ? You can still place the bounty on him specifically, but I'd call that a waste of isk, spend your money on more productive things. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
Touval Lysander Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 439	Posted - 2012.10.21 01:16:00 - [107] - Quote Gilbaron wrote: i would actually like to place a bounty on Touval Lysander with the new system coming up, so sad he's an NPC alt :( Oh, CCP would you please expand the block user functionality so that i don't have to read replies to shitpostings ? What would you like me to call my new corp? "0.0 - pull your heads in and stop whining"? If you think you gotta pay a bounty tough guy, then I'm flattered. Just proves not all PvP has to be done with a gun. "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Touval Lysander Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 439	Posted - 2012.10.21 01:19:00 - [108] - Quote Lord Zim wrote: Gilbaron wrote: i would actually like to place a bounty on Touval Lysander with the new system coming up, so sad he's an NPC alt :( Oh, CCP would you please expand the block user functionality so that i don't have to read replies to shitpostings ? You can still place the bounty on him specifically, but I'd call that a waste of isk, spend your money on more productive things. This ^^^ 1) Like a POS in 0.0 to build stuff. 2) A pimped PvE fit to tackle 0.0 rats, belts, anoms, sigs and Level 5 missions. 3) Or you can just whine some more. Fix null? Remove the whiners. "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Christopher Scott Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.10.21 01:38:00 - [109] - Quote I think nullsec space should be more like WH space. I think that's kind of what CCP wanted to do all along, but were possibly too afraid to make such drastic changes in fear of blowback by the community. Nullsec doesn't have to be exactly like WH space, but it should borrow a lot of design cues: Gates should not be physical. Who builds a bunch of gates and then abandons them? Story aside, it's just silly. Even if you simply replaced gates with wormholes, and left all the mechanics the same, it would still make more sense than having a bunch of random abandoned gates in lawless space that are untouchable. Space travel should be more dynamic. The options for circumventing jump gates are too restrictive. Imagine if you could scan down a short-range wormhole that bridges two normally unconnected systems together within a constellation. Imagine if gate camping were less effective because there were more alternative, somewhat random paths available for others to take. It would be more difficult for an alliance to hold entire regions of space by blockading a handful of systems. I think it would shift the battlefronts of territorial warfare towards the staked territory, and less towards the choke points that are 10 jumps away. Passive local chat. I think this just makes more sense. Nullsec is dangerous, lawless space. Yet somehow, everyone knows when you're in system because the abandoned-yet-invulnerable jumpgate is also a blabber mouth. I think passive local chat is more immersive and provides better tactical gameplay. I also think that it opens up a lot of new areas for improvement, like active/passive scanners on your ship, signature stealth, and Starbase structures that provide system-wide scanning and alert systems. Make territory warfare more lucrative, not more expansive. I think one of the problems with territory warfare is that most of the territory is junk and not really worth taking. This leads to alliances holding large regions of space for only a handful of systems. I think territory warfare should focus on the planet/moon level and not the system/region level. Every moon should be lucrative, and claiming all moons around a planet should give amazing bonuses. Holding an entire system with all planets and moons should be an epic achievement with incredible bonuses and perks to build special structures. Even the most major alliances should be content with simply holding an entire constellation. Holding an entire region of space should be a monumental group effort by a coalition of multiple alliances, not something a single alliance can do by bubbling a few gates. My 0.02 ISK. I think those changes alone would make EVE a much more incredible game!
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5259	Posted - 2012.10.21 01:44:00 - [110] - Quote seriously if you want to remove gates from nullsec and change the way nullsec local works to a wormhole-like local, then go to wormholes This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Federation posting cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online posting. fofofofofo
Touval Lysander Zero Wine 439	Posted - 2012.10.21 01:45:00 - [111] - Quote Christopher Scott wrote: Holding an entire region of space should be a monumental group effort by a coalition of multiple alliances They have. Quote: not something a single alliance can do by bubbling a few gates. They can't. "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Lord Zim 1810	Posted - 2012.10.21 01:49:00 - [112] - Quote Touval Lysander wrote: 1) Like a POS in 0.0 to build stuff. So your suggestion for working around CCP's ****** design is to require everyone to have their own corp, or for everyone to have POS roles (with the subsequent theft problem), instead of having CCP make it so nullsec stations have more slots of everything and a refinery, all of which is public and requires nothing except the proper standings. I like your ideas and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. (No, I don't, get out.) Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
Gilbaron Free-Space-Ranger Ev0ke 380	Posted - 2012.10.21 01:56:00 - [113] - Quote I could make a public tender. 500 million ISK to whoever gives me the real ingame characters of the guy. I could then place a nice bounty on his head. for shitposting (btw: is there a reason tab in the new bounty hunting? there should be one....)
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5259	Posted - 2012.10.21 02:10:00 - [114] - Quote Gilbaron wrote: I could make a public tender. 500 million ISK to whoever gives me the real ingame characters of the guy. I could then place a nice bounty on his head. for shitposting (btw: is there a reason tab in the new bounty hunting? there should be one....) if i find it can you just put that 500m towards his bounty instead This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Federation posting cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online posting. fofofofofo
Gilbaron Free-Space-Ranger Ev0ke 380	Posted - 2012.10.21 02:26:00 - [115] - Quote sure. you would have to provide some proof though, after all, you are -10 to me and i therefore can't really trust you. i hope you understand that ...
Touval Lysander Zero Wine 439	Posted - 2012.10.21 02:37:00 - [116] - Quote Gilbaron wrote: I could make a public tender. 500 million ISK to whoever gives me the real ingame characters of the guy. I could then place a nice bounty on his head. for shitposting (btw: is there a reason tab in the new bounty hunting? there should be one....) Just registered new corp. Just for you. Place bounty and wardec. PLEASE..... "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Touval Lysander Zero Wine 439	Posted - 2012.10.21 02:45:00 - [117] - Quote Lord Zim wrote: Touval Lysander wrote: 1) Like a POS in 0.0 to build stuff. So your suggestion for working around CCP's ****** design is to require everyone to have their own corp, or for everyone to have POS roles (with the subsequent theft problem), instead of having CCP make it so nullsec stations have more slots of everything and a refinery, all of which is public and requires nothing except the proper standings. I like your ideas and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. (No, I don't, get out.) It's BS Zim. You CAN setup and operate your OWN POS inside the corp - using an fn password ya dufus! The ALLIANCE RULES says you need GROUP passwords so you can't. "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Lord Zim 1810	Posted - 2012.10.21 02:56:00 - [118] - Quote Touval Lysander wrote: Lord Zim wrote: Touval Lysander wrote: 1) Like a POS in 0.0 to build stuff. So your suggestion for working around CCP's ****** design is to require everyone to have their own corp, or for everyone to have POS roles (with the subsequent theft problem), instead of having CCP make it so nullsec stations have more slots of everything and a refinery, all of which is public and requires nothing except the proper standings. I like your ideas and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. (No, I don't, get out.) It's BS Zim. You CAN setup and operate your OWN POS inside the corp - using an fn password ya dufus! The ALLIANCE RULES says you need GROUP passwords so you can't. - Requires POS roles, check - Requires a fairly hefty investment to begin with - Is a massive hassle, check - Costs a lot more to run, check - Is incapable of making as many things in one run as a station is, check - Is limited by the number of moons, check Soooo ... we're looking at a gaming world where 0.5% refinery tax is enough to get people to expend the time and energy to compress ore to send to hisec to refine and sell, and you think adding anything from 144k/hour to 632k/hour running costs, per tower, is going to even factor into it, anywhere? Puff puff pass, dude, you be smokin' the strong stuff. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
Akirei Scytale Test Alliance Please Ignore 2497	Posted - 2012.10.21 03:01:00 - [119] - Quote CCP should just remove the 1 per system cap on stations so we can create big circlejerk rings of stations with overlapping undocks so that the game *** itself whenever a dread decides to pop out. That, or let us place stations anywhere. Like surrounding gates. The ultimate bomber net. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance**
Touval Lysander Zero Wine 439	Posted - 2012.10.21 03:06:00 - [120] - Quote Lord Zim wrote: - Requires POS roles, check - Requires a fairly hefty investment to begin with - Is a massive hassle, check - Costs a lot more to run, check - Is incapable of making as many things in one run as a station is, check - Is limited by the number of moons, check 1) Corp issue. Alliance neccessity of group passwords on POS's make this a problem it doesn't need to be. 2) Highseccers do it all the time. C'mon 200m or so? 3) Lazy SOB. Highseccers do it all the time. 4) Even solo highseccers do it all the time no problems with low-yield ice and PI. 5) A POS easily accommodates the limit of personal build slots. (10 as a maxed char) Nothing to do with stations. 6) Alliance issue. Half the time people won't settle for a crap moon just to build stuff. The problem is about control at the highest levels. Not ability to do so. Always been that way. Yes, I agree, POS roles etc. COULD be much better but it ISN'T a reason for it not being able to be done. "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

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