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How do we petition to publicly announce # of isk-pharmer account bans?

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Stone Blackmouth	Posted - 2005.03.29 16:27:00 - [1] Originally by: "Eris Discordia" CCP does follow the EULa and does not allow the selling of isk for real money. If people petition against possible farmers CCP will invesigate it. However, it is also a policy of CCP not to publicly discuss any warnings or bans against third parties. How do we petition CCP to change their policy to announce the number of accounts who were banned for isk-pharming or buying isk without naming their names? Do we email [email protected]? Not to name names, but there are other popular MMORPGs cough WoW cough that publicly let their playerbase know that they are banning people. By doing that it helps to stop people from, in this case, buy or isk-pharm. I have alot of respect for CCP to keep our account information private, but I think many would be VERY happy to hear publicly that CCP is doing their job. And by no means am I suggesting that you are not, because I know you guys are working really hard to follow the EULA and the CCO (Code of Conduct) for our benifit. Trust me, I know you would get hundreds of accolades from people if you made an announcment like this. PS: I'm pretty sure this thread will be locked because I'm talking about the modding policy - I hope it won't be though. PSS: I know you're just doing your job. -- "There's isk in those darn hills!!!"
jbob2000	Posted - 2005.03.29 16:34:00 - [2] but to comment on your thread, it would be nice to see CCP doing something about this. As suggested in another thread about this, have a 'kill' counter somewhere of the amount of players banned from the game for isk-pharming ----------------------------------------------- CANADIAN
Stone Blackmouth	Posted - 2005.03.29 16:35:00 - [3] Originally by: jbob2000 but to comment on your thread, it would be nice to see CCP doing something about this. As suggested in another thread about this, have a 'kill' counter somewhere of the amount of players banned from the game for isk-pharming Exactly...it would put the fear in people to not buy or isk-pharm. Plus it goes to help CCP image. Its very popular PR move. -- "There's isk in those darn hills!!!"
jbob2000	Posted - 2005.03.29 16:43:00 - [4] WTF WHERE DID THE OTHER POSTS JUST GO!?!?!? ----------------------------------------------- CANADIAN
ThorsHmr	Posted - 2005.03.29 16:44:00 - [5] While being more than 2 years into the game and barely keeping my eyes above 200mil in my wallet hardly qualifies me as an isk pharmer, I do have a suggestion however..... Why don't you mind your own business and just play....or....if you don't like the situation, Get the hell out! "The biggest troublemaker you'll probably ever have to deal with watches you shave his face in the mirror every morning."
Wrangler	Posted - 2005.03.29 16:44:00 - [6] Originally by: jbob2000 WTF WHERE DID THE OTHER POSTS JUST GO!?!?!? A real moderator came by.. [Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators]
jbob2000	Posted - 2005.03.29 16:46:00 - [7] Originally by: ThorsHmr While being more than 2 years into the game and barely keeping my eyes above 200mil in my wallet hardly qualifies me as an isk pharmer, I do have a suggestion however..... Why don't you mind your own business and just play....or....if you don't like the situation, Get the hell out! I dont quite understand what your saying? hes not accusing anyone of isk-pharming... ----------------------------------------------- CANADIAN
Verone	Posted - 2005.03.29 16:47:00 - [8] lol wrangler COME AND SOCIALISE WITH US NASTY SNIGG BASTARDS AT : WWW.SNIGG.CJB.NET
MaiLina KaTar	Posted - 2005.03.29 16:53:00 - [9] Originally by: ThorsHmr While being more than 2 years into the game and barely keeping my eyes above 200mil in my wallet hardly qualifies me as an isk pharmer, I do have a suggestion however..... Why don't you mind your own business and just play....or....if you don't like the situation, Get the hell out! n1 lmao!! Mai's Idealog
kieron	Posted - 2005.03.29 16:56:00 - [10] No need to send in an e-mail to anyone, as the forum topic is sufficient. While I will not promise a change in the policy of actions taken against players, I will bring this up to the staff for discussion. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online
Stone Blackmouth	Posted - 2005.03.29 17:00:00 - [11] Originally by: kieron No need to send in an e-mail to anyone, as the forum topic is sufficient. While I will not promise a change in the policy of actions taken against players, I will bring this up to the staff for discussion. Thank you. -- "There's isk in those darn hills!!!"
jbob2000	Posted - 2005.03.29 17:04:00 - [12] Awsome! I take back my previous 'IBTL' statement as this thread seems to not have been locked knocks on wood Please no, not the lockbat! ----------------------------------------------- CANADIAN
Mid Night	Posted - 2005.03.29 17:26:00 - [13] Originally by: Wrangler A real moderator came by.. Wrangler 4tw _____ (\_/) (> <) (X.x) This is Headless Bunny. Copy Headless Bunny into your signature to help prevent his attempt at world domination.
Domalais	Posted - 2005.03.29 17:58:00 - [14] Originally by: ThorsHmr While being more than 2 years into the game and barely keeping my eyes above 200mil in my wallet hardly qualifies me as an isk pharmer, I do have a suggestion however..... Why don't you mind your own business and just play....or....if you don't like the situation, Get the hell out! Because it hurts the game. You, with your 200 mill, are not able to buy as much equipment with that 200 mill because other players use farming to generate massive quantities of isk, causing inflation.
Quanteeri	Posted - 2005.03.29 18:48:00 - [15] Yep. It's really hard to be competetive in a game that has people using it as a RL means of profit. Only thing related to this game that should be able to be bought on eBay is one of the Quafe Queen's T-shirts. Unwashed, of course.
Levin Cavil	Posted - 2005.03.29 18:58:00 - [16] Originally by: Wrangler Originally by: jbob2000 WTF WHERE DID THE OTHER POSTS JUST GO!?!?!? A real moderator came by.. OMG H4X! ------------------------------ <Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming
Lygos	Posted - 2005.03.29 19:11:00 - [17] Naw. Inflation doesn't hurt anything. Besides, this market adjustment is not an unlimited climb. It has a definite cieling as there is a max payout from agents. Savings are generally impotent anyhow. I approve a counter for bans resulting from abused alt recycling. However, I have yet to be persuaded about the ill effects of infractions in minerals acquisition, and I assure you that I have read, and pondered nearly ALL the arguments as much as is reasonably possible.
Matrin III	Posted - 2005.03.29 19:18:00 - [18] Edited by: Matrin III on 29/03/2005 19:17:43 ThorsHmr and possibly Lygos are both confused as to what is ment be "isk pharming." Having played lineage2, I am an expert on the subject and know everything about it. I got tired of explaining it to people so I wrote a long document all about it, and about MMO economy (I'm an expert there too) but I had to format my HD and I forgot to save them. :( Oh well. I am so tired of explaining it to ignorant people that I will stop writing now and hope the igorant people go away, or someone else explains.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.03.29 19:20:00 - [19] Originally by: kieron No need to send in an e-mail to anyone, as the forum topic is sufficient. While I will not promise a change in the policy of actions taken against players, I will bring this up to the staff for discussion. I don't think it's necessary to announce names. I believe it's caused some grief for other MMO's as well, when they've done it. Certainly mentioning when a big catch is made is fair enough, but naming names seesm to be a path to trouble... "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Cummilla	Posted - 2005.03.29 19:26:00 - [20] Can we collect data on the number of no life idiots who sit in mommy's basement playing eve 23/7 and pronouncing their superiority and excellence in mastering Eve online to the populus through what is clearly an abnormal and sociopathic amount of playtime???? This group of people whose last glimpse of female anatomy was no doubt at their births, still has the audacity to OMGWTFBBQ***** complain about Jimmy who works 80 hours a week to support his wife and 20 kids but who might buy 50 mil isk on ebay or whatever. On a serious note there is much more to this age old argument than that which you hear from the anti-ebay whiners. There is extreme cases on either side. However, for 90% of what happens in the middle, it's largely harmless and would be more "hurt" for the game to try and eradicate it versus just letting it be.
Cummilla	Posted - 2005.03.29 19:27:00 - [21] Originally by: ThorsHmr While being more than 2 years into the game and barely keeping my eyes above 200mil in my wallet hardly qualifies me as an isk pharmer, I do have a suggestion however..... Why don't you mind your own business and just play....or....if you don't like the situation, Get the hell out! Of course I like this approach if you aren't game for an indepth conversation of the particulars :) Nicely stated.
Nostradamu5	Posted - 2005.03.29 20:05:00 - [22] Originally by: Wrangler Originally by: jbob2000 WTF WHERE DID THE OTHER POSTS JUST GO!?!?!? A real moderator came by.. Cute statement but Isn't Kieron actually a community manager or did Eris sneak in while you were twiddling your thumbs........again! Stop griping about server instability and go buy an EVE mug! Additionally with the purchase of each mug you will receive two(2) invisible Elves.
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.03.29 20:27:00 - [23] Originally by: Wrangler Originally by: jbob2000 WTF WHERE DID THE OTHER POSTS JUST GO!?!?!? A real moderator came by.. Nice to see some real moderation going on :). Editing and removing posts instead of locking everything. It's nice because while a heavy hand is sometimes required, we still want to discuss some non-disruptive topics of conversation freely. And if a certain topic is locked, we can't talk about that subject for another few weeks or a moderator will lock the thread for reposting a locked thread. There does get a point where it becomes an oppression of liberties. There's no harm in letting people talk about what they like as long as they don't cause other problems or break the forum rules. On the subject of ISK farming for sale on Ebay, every popular online game has this problem. There isn't much that can actually be done about it except perhaps bidding on it and getting the person's name, then reporting them. The problem is that each game company's juristiction is limited to inside the game. The only thing they can do is ban the people committing the acts of either buying or selling ISK or items and to do that they have to find those people. There is no legal reason why anyone has to turn over information about these people as they arent breaking the law, just the EULA of a game which, while it's a contract of use, cannot be used in any breach of contract claims. The EULA is only a list of rules that if you don't follow, you forfeit your right to use the game. As long as you're never caught, you can play to your heart's content. You have no right to play and can't complain on being removed from the game, as any game company must provide a reason on removing someone from their game and you've effectively just given them a reason that's in their big list in the EULA of bannable offenses. But you're not breaking any contract by playing - it's the game designer's responsibility to find you and remove you. Interestingly, for Everquest 2, SOE had their legal team make an EULA which would stand up in court and was a legally sound contract. I beleive they sued their first ebayer for something recently, though I could have heard that story wrong. I definitely know that their EULA stands up in court and it wasd tested recently, a case which SOE won against an individual.
Domalais	Posted - 2005.03.29 21:27:00 - [24] Originally by: Lygos Naw. Inflation doesn't hurt anything. When wages are fixed, inflation is disasterous.
Corvus Dove	Posted - 2005.03.29 23:27:00 - [25] My own 2 ISK on this: I'm all for the naming of names. I mean, we don't want individual home addresses for anyone or anything like that, we just want character names. Regardless of what some believe, your charrie is not a real person . There's an alternative solution, as well. Rather than just ban the accounts, make their standing with EVERYONE a big fat -10.0 so they can't move without getting obliterated, which will let the rest of us recycle the "banned" account's stuff into the market and lower some prices. Just a thought. No matter what, something must be done to further deter this nonsense. I won't name names until CCP does, but having someone in a Typhoon covered in tech2 weaponry that thinks Concorde won't attack in a 0.5 system try to ransom you is irritating, simply because you know someone didn't work to get where they are like you did. What makes me feel good about this is not only is the thread left active, but both ISD and a Dev have acknowledged and promised to present the idea. That done, there's really only one way to show our support from here on out: SIGNED "You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!"
Tobiaz	Posted - 2005.03.29 23:39:00 - [26] Edited by: Tobiaz on 29/03/2005 23:39:56 Originally by: kieron No need to send in an e-mail to anyone, as the forum topic is sufficient. While I will not promise a change in the policy of actions taken against players, I will bring this up to the staff for discussion. OMG!!! I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!! HAS CCP FINALLY REALISED CUSTOMERS WANT ACTUAL RESPONSE?!!! Sorry to reacted with my Capslock on, but in my two years or so, i've been around, this has to be the best, clearest, and most customer-friendly response I've seen so far coming from anyone working for CCP. Ok Kieron is the 'Community Manager' so it's job to look after the insecurities of the customers, but still... CCP usually prefers to keep the community on a need-to-know basis when concerning anything related to 'policy'. And any discussion even suspected of it gets burned by the inquisition. TBH, i was surprised after reading the opening post that it was still here and not on a oneway trip to Doomheim. And even more surprised when I couldn't find a lock the next few posts. So seeing kieron actually responding in this post bordering heresy, meant picking up my jaw from my keyboard. I sure hope comes as part of a new wave of enlightment by CCP (though I rather think Kieron was drunk or something, couldn't find the 'Nuke thread' button and thought "What the heck.. why not give an actual answer for a change..." /crosses fingers
Icarus Starkiller	Posted - 2005.03.29 23:41:00 - [27] Originally by: Wrangler Originally by: jbob2000 WTF WHERE DID THE OTHER POSTS JUST GO!?!?!? A real moderator came by.. WTF? That sounds like l33t uberganker smacktalk. 'Real' moderator... Looks like 'I don't agree with this, so [delete]', regardless of what the player base has to say. The locked & deleted posts were not being flamed, nor were they trolling. They were deleted because the Mods (and above them, CCP) don't want to answer to the problem addressed... Apparently.
Tobiaz	Posted - 2005.03.29 23:59:00 - [28] Edited by: Tobiaz on 30/03/2005 00:07:43 Little test: "Dear CCP, I think you guys should seriously look into the fairness of some of the aspects of your banning policies. Especially when concerning banning someone who stole billion from his corp as a CEO only to sell it on Ebay. Yes he deserves to be banned, but do the other members of the corp deserve to bend over twice to be **ed in the *? It's nice that CCP removed such an individual from the game. It's less nice for the numerous members to see their entire corp be destroyed and CCP giving them the 'talk to the hand' policy. They bankrupted one of the most powerful production corps on the doorstep of the T2 release, effectively meaning the end of the corp when corps like N.A.G.A. and Xanadu jumped into the vacuum it created. CCP's response was something like "all items on this account were his possessions so we can't give them to anyone" He's banned untill 2035 or something! Why not delete the entire account? It's not like his children will be playing EVE over 30 years! When character will be deleted all his stuff will be inherited by the corp. The guys has still over 20 billion in cash alone left in his banned wallet which should be have been returned to the corp. A perfect solution TBH, the corp gets back what is his and the player won't care anyway. It's not like he was duping stuff so it won't matter if that stuff goes back into the game. It's now like he not only ripped his corp, but then also got to dangle it in front of their nose with CCP's help. I've heard more stories about CCP using their own morals and guidelines totally not coming from any humane logic or fairness, but more something some dice was thrown up. And everytime this happens, people quit. So how is this good for the game? Tobiaz" Well lets see how fast this gets locked/banned whatever and I get the standard "post your questions and concerns to [email protected] so we can properly ignore them" Now lets hope Kieron is still plastered and this will also be brought forward on the next meeting.
Tobiaz	Posted - 2005.03.30 00:22:00 - [29] Edited by: Tobiaz on 30/03/2005 00:23:03 Originally by: Icarus Starkiller Originally by: Wrangler Originally by: jbob2000 WTF WHERE DID THE OTHER POSTS JUST GO!?!?!? A real moderator came by.. WTF? That sounds like l33t uberganker smacktalk. 'Real' moderator... Looks like 'I don't agree with this, so [delete]', regardless of what the player base has to say. The locked & deleted posts were not being flamed, nor were they trolling. They were deleted because the Mods (and above them, CCP) don't want to answer to the problem addressed... Apparently. Don't expect the mods to agree. CCP says "jump" and the mods ask "how high" CCP says "burn anything questioning policy" and we got the second inquisition here... P.S. I know that's a little harsh, being a mod is a ungrateful job, but I really can't stand the 'befehl ist befehl' mentality of the mods when I see posts disappearing or being locked for totally ridiculous reasons, leaving us only able to no longer form understandable words and only mutter "WTF?!"
Question2	Posted - 2005.03.30 04:01:00 - [30] Why not just do a search on e-bay and email them,asking them to stop the auctions since its illegal? I mean,auctions can be stopped if they break laws.......try selling working guns on e-bay complete with ammo.

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