You get that, though - you get free levels in your own racial ships and weapons from the get-go. And anyway, in-game, you're a cybernetic post-human demigod, whatever your race.

You can always take your thought to Features and Ideas Discussion and see what sort of response it gets. I've done that, with ideas I thought were nifty, and in between the flames, I learned why my ideas were broken.

At the moment its more of a case of choice not to cross train or stay true to your race....

GǪand having that choice is good. Removing it for no reason is just good old bad design.

It's ok your most likely early 20's and do not have much experience in the gaming world.

Incorrect on both accounts, which is why I know how outdated the design is and why it needed to put to pasture a long time agoGǪ

It's a game of choices. You are arguing for their removal. This is what's known as a bad combination.

Yea it's not everyone's cuppa tea but i reckon it would be more realistic.

If I grew up as a young blow flying my racial ships how or why would i expect to be able to cross train and fly them just as quickly as my own ships?

why would I expect to be able to operate lasers as well as projectiles?

It's all about our idea's. You got yours I got mine.

Ill stick to my plan of building myself as a true minmatar character. You guys cross train. Yea I might gimp myself buy there's something to be said for staying true and play the "sandbox" how I want lol. Each to there own.

Realistic you say... OK I'll bite, two comparisons for you here:

Let's say you know how to fly a plane IRL. What would it take for you to fly another type of plane? Would you have to do all your pilot training from the very beginning? No. all you need is to do a short orientation course, some sessions in a class room, some in the simulator and maybe a flight or two in the co-pilots seat, then it's time for the real thing.

Using guns. If you know how to use one type of rifle you already know how to use most (if not all) of the others, you know which way to hold it, how to aim it and how to sque-e-e-e-eze the trigger instead of pulling it. Learning all the technical little details e.g. how to operate the safety, how to load the gun and how to adjust the sights are a trivial matter which don't take long.

So if you want to be realistic then training the other races in eve should take a shorter amount of time then they currently do.



The skills in Eve are mostly enablers and stat enhancers. They don't determine how skillfully you use your ships or tell you how to fit them. That's where the skills between those two flabby things you call ears come into play.

You obviously have never flown a real plane.

Try and have an open mind yea?

for example You drive yes? Left hand drive most likely? Right hand side of the road. you learned that wy and again i am guessing. So you goto another country. Are you now telling me you can just take to it like a duck to water or does it take time to get in the flow??? thats a simple thing to put to you not like flying a plane or firing a gun.

It's all about our idea's. You got yours I got mine.

Ill stick to my plan of building myself as a true minmatar character. You guys cross train. Yea I might gimp myself buy there's something to be said for staying true and play the "sandbox" how I want lol. Each to there own.

If I wanted to train to fly an Amarr ship I reckon is should take me longer than an Amarr pilot. I mean come on stands to reason yea?

You obviously have never flown a real plane. Maybe you have fired a gun but not many differrntl types of guns./ Yes you can after time and some learning fly it or shoot it but it takes a bit longer to be an expert in it. Like in real life.

Just for the record I played since 2003 and this dude is a new character on a new account.

I dont think its a bad idea. I reckon CCP have messed from the start but still could change it. Yea it's not everyone's cuppa tea but i reckon it would be more realistic.


If I grew up as a young blow flying my racial ships how or why would i expect to be able to cross train and fly them just as quickly as my own ships?

why would I expect to be able to operate lasers as well as projectiles?

Let's take the easy mode out of this game and make it more specialized.....

I ain't saying Im not able to cross train im just saying it should take me longer cause I didn't grow up on Amarr

Incorrect on both accounts, which is why I know how outdated the design is and why it needed to put to pasture a long time agoGǪ

It's a game of choices. You are arguing for their removal. This is what's known as a bad combination. The fact that you have to go for the ad hominem and red herring rather than argue your case is what's known as relying on fallacies, and tends to hint at a deep-seated weakness in your position.

Would you like to try again?

You obviously have never flown a real plane. Maybe you have fired a gun but not many differrntl types of guns./ Yes you can after time and some learning fly it or shoot it but it takes a bit longer to be an expert in it. Like in real life.

for example You drive yes? Left hand drive most likely? Right hand side of the road. you learned that wy and again i am guessing. So you goto another country. Are you now telling me you can just take to it like a duck to water or does it take time to get in the flow??? thats a simple thing to put to you not like flying a plane or firing a gun.

Its the same with cars you might learn on a manual or auto. Quite different. Same with a simple low spec car vs a high spec car where you need more training.

I dont expect the game to change I am just saying how I would have done it to make it true in my mind.

Try and have an open mind yea?

Let's take the easy mode out of this game and make it more specialized.....

There's already plenty of room for specialization in Eve. You have as much skill in a particular role as the time you decide to spend training for it. If you train mining skills, that's time you're not training combat skills. Time you'll never get back.

As a representative of casual players, I can say that your suggestion would be a big aggravation to those of us who want a variety of game experiences (the ADD crowd). Now if we want to train anything outside our possibly-not-well-thought-out chosen role, we have to decide whether to be inefficient about it, or drink the kool-aid and start rolling alts.

I can't really think of anyone this would actually benefit, other than giving the folks who like to specialize the satisfaction of forcing everyone else to play the game their way.

Aint no troll.

OK look ill stick some flesh on the bones.

Im Minmatar right so you all know as a race we are expected to fire projectile. We learn it at x7 Training time multiplier. In it's basic form

What I am saying is that if your Amarr you learn it at a higher rate for example x9 or x10

So If I want to fly a Amarr frigate I learn it at a slower rate.

This can be expanded to not only race but also to fields. So for example if your a pilot with ideas of being a fighter you learn how to fire guns better than a guy who wants to mine. Yea we got the attributes but why not take it further?

If you wanna be a miner then you learn it way way faster than me who wants to shoot things.

I think really CCP missed a trick to make the game more spec line and not everyone can do everything so quicly or easy.


Edit only to add that x7 is for capital projectile with normal being only x1 so i would expect Caldari to learn it at x2

But I gotta say if this was in from the start would it stop you from playing?

You think theres enough scope for spec? I say no to that cause I can train everything the same as anyone else.

Only differenc is my implants and attributes. Aint enough spec for my liking.

But then again maybe im harder core than you?

The guy above me.

I would quit... if I had made the wrong choice.... What you quit in life at anything that doesnt go your way or isnt easy?


anyway what if I said you can train three characters up at the same time on yoru account?

I'd say your credibility just nosedived, because you can't. Only one character per account can be training; if you want to train up a character in one of the other slots, you've got to pause training on whichever one is actively training. (Or was that a hypothetical to go along with the hypothetical kneecapping of characters through racial penalties?)

And there's one fundamental to bear in mind: EVE is a game. It's supposed to be fun.

You want to play the game by locking yourself into one race? That's perfectly acceptable. Lots of people concentrate on one race, and find themselves in a hole when changing corporate doctrines mean they've got to grind other races. Happened to me; I started off pure armor-tanking Gallente, and ended up needing to cross-train because I was in situations demanding shield doctrines, and it was a pain in the neck for quite a few months while I built up a new set of skills from scratch.

But changing the entire nature of the game to cater to your personal whims?

That's ... rather like pouring concrete into the sandbox.

1. Add unnecessary complications that reduce 'realism' and punishs new people.
2. Change fundamentals in skill training
3. Make alts much more valuable than they are now by allowing them to train.

You know what we get? Closer and closer to the pigeon hole MMORPG's that I hate.

Imagine, in some fleet:
FC: "Hey we need a logistics"
You: "Okay, let me switch to my alt that had logistics."

Turn the page to WoW:
Raid Leader: "Hey, we need a healer"
You: "Okay, let me switch to my alt that is a healer."

I've already mentioned a small fraction of the things a new player has to learn in order to play EVE just in their first week.

Asking whether I'd quit life is not equivalent. I do not have the option to quit life to play a different life that fits my tastes better. However, I could have quit EVE to play something easier, like Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, SWTOR, or whatever. I also don't 'play' life for entertainment. EVE is supposed to be fun, not a chore that requires hours upon hours of reading stuff so you don't mess up your character. Then after years of playing, what if CCP nerfed your racial ships and/or guns? I have quit MMORPG's because of nerfs and never went back. I devoted many hours to my character, then when I was having fun, the fun was taken away. My options were find new fun with my character, complain on forums, make a new character and start all over, or change games.

:TLDR: Pigeon holing is not fun, and causes people to quit. What you propose somewhat pigeon holes people into roles or ships. Therefore, what you propose reduces the fun of EVE, and causes people to quit, and does not increase the fun in any other area, nor does it increase the realism. You are out of touch with how it is to be a newbie in this game. Without new people coming in, this game dies.

OK so you don't like the idea. Fair enough.

Just for the record I played since 2003 and this dude is a new character on a new account.

I dont think its a bad idea. I reckon CCP have messed from the start but still could change it. Yea it's not everyone's cuppa tea but i reckon it would be more realistic.


If I grew up as a young blow flying my racial ships how or why would i expect to be able to cross train and fly them just as quickly as my own ships?

why would I expect to be able to operate lasers as well as projectiles?

Let's take the easy mode out of this game and make it more specialized.....

I ain't saying Im not able to cross train im just saying it should take me longer cause I didn't grow up on Amarr

No, it wouldn't take longer to learn a new plane or a new rifle. It would take less time since you have the basics down from the last one you trained. This is the same as the base and support skills in EVE: once you get the basics down, it's just a matter of learning more of the same, and that does not take longer each time you do it.

OP is either a troll or LOLRP...enough said.

Don't mean to to hi-jack, but this got me thinking...

If you have race X's, say, Cruiser trained, then train race Y's Cruiser, perhaps the multiplier for race Y Cruiser should be reduced in relation to the level of race X's Cruiser.

Or, being a forever-noob, is there something I don't get?

Look it isnt hard.

If your amarr your more into flying those ships of gold and lasers with armour tank. Your train at your level.

If your caldari your hybrids and missile with shiled so if you wanna fly the gold ships and lasers it take you "slightly" longer

Ill draw you pictures if you want?


Ok thats a bit unfair on the pictures ive had a few beers lunch time

Thanks Tarsas Phage. As I said before im into the harder core of games wher you like it easy mode. Thats ok mate each to their own yea?