| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Jita Bloodtear
Bloodtear Labs
169
   |
Posted - 2012.10.25 21:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
Supercaps have been accumulating in the game many times faster than they've been dying. In 2011 we were producing 137 supercarriers and 31 titans per month, with 3,385 SCs and 846 titans ingame. In that same time 269 SCs and 86 titans died. This means we were producing them 4 to 6 times faster than they're dying.
It became so bad that we were seeing entire fleets composed of super caps without support fleets. The 50 man Raiden titan blapping fleets (a blap titan is an sensor boosted, drug drinking, tracking fit subcap killer) which would massacre hundreds of subcaps in minutes. And it was glorious. But CCP didn't want supercaps to be so effective, so they nerfed them across the board.
Supercarriers were limited to fighters + fighter-bombers (F+FBs) only, titans sensor resolution was slashed, titans can only lock 3 targets instead of 8, EHP was reduced all round, no doomsday in lowsec, or against subcaps, FBs had their sig radius massively inflated, 15 min renewable logout aggression pvp timers, etc
The list goes on, and it didn't happen all at once. But the pattern is very apparent that CCP has chosen to nerf supercaps in the hopes that it will lead to more deaths.
BUT THIS IS THE WRONG WAY TO APPROACH THE PROBLEM.
Instead super cap pilots are never committing to fights because the changes have taught pilots to be extra cautious and timid. We should instead be encouraging super pilots to be BOLD and RECKLESS.
Bold and reckless = fun = DEATH (good)
Cautious and timid = not fun = BLUE BALLS (bad)
So how do we encourage super cap pilots to be bold and reckless? We make it worth their while to commit to combat. Super capitals are designed to be anti-capital, so enable them in this role (currently supers are used in structure grinds almost exclusively). 95% of all super vs super fights that are about to start end because one side can't hold tackle on the other. Why? Because smartbombs kill dictor bubbles in 3-4 blasts, and HICs are ultra expensive and easy to kill with minor support. It's currently not feasible to catch an enemy super cap fleet.
Super caps need the ability to catch and hold each other. More to the point, they should be able to super-point each other. It doesn't matter how this is accomplished, but if they had this ability then fleets would drop supers on each other instead of countless anti-climatic subcap skirmishes with dictors.
You want supercaps to die, we want supercaps to die. So enable us to catch and kill them. Stop encouraging super pilots to be timid and cautious. Make them bold and reckless. Accomplish this and they will die. |
Azami Nevinyrall
Homeworld Republic
Intrepid Crossing
480
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 21:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
I blame all those nullsec bots.......I mean all those hard working plexers and miners.
Apperently I'm on twitter now...
@AzamiNevinyrall |
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
488
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 21:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jita Bloodtear wrote:....
Super super cap?
"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
|
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air
The Unthinkables
2039
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 21:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Why not make sov based on something other then watching a health bar containing tens of millions of ehp go down so supercaps aren't so desireable for speeding up such balls-numbing action?
Or make the quadrillions of trit and pyerite actually disruptable by having nullsec be the main source of construction as well as destruction? |
Azumi Zimu
Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry
20
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 21:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
How do we teach 0.0 super cap pilots to enjoy risk?
I don't know, some carebears are risk-adverse and there's no changing that. |
Kesper North
Gentlemen of Means
Gentlemen's Agreement
47
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 21:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Touval Lysander wrote:[Super super cap?
Or capping super caps with a super cap capturer.
|
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
488
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 21:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Or make the quadrillions of trit and pyerite actually disruptable by having nullsec be the main source of construction...
I saw what you did there...
(although, I just checked, couldn't find any CSAA's in highsec. Where you looking?)
"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
|
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
488
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 21:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Azumi Zimu wrote:How do we teach 0.0 super cap pilots to enjoy risk?
I don't know, some carebears are risk-adverse and there's no changing that.
lol. The VISION.
A Carebear flying a scap 
"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
|
Kobal81
14th Legion
Eternal Evocations
19
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 21:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jita spammers are "Too damn high" Deal with it Super buttercup |
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
488
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 21:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kesper North wrote:Touval Lysander wrote:[Super super cap? Or capping super caps with a super cap capturer.
Shouldn't that be "capping super caps with a super cap capper"
Then they'll need a super to cap the capping super caps capping super cap cappers.
Or CCP can just reset the whole lot and go back to SUB caps.
And then we'll need a cap to cap the sub cap and a super cap to cap the cap capping the sub caps.
Good for at least 4 or 5 years.
"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
|
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
306
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 21:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
We need BIGGER titans and Supercarriers so we can go kill off all the regular titans and supercarriers. Then when eve gets too many bigger supers...we build even bigger ones to kill those off.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
16
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 21:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Why were super caps and titans designed in the first way |
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
110
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 21:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
I think first of all they should be like 10x more expensive in mats and about 2.5x longer to build.
Then, they should ALWAYS be present in space. There should be none of this "logging off and the ship goes poof" nonsense. You can dock them to a POS with defenses, but they should always be targetable and attackable.
Then, they should have insane upkeep costs in the form of crew and consumables.
As well, they should take very minimal but constant damage to hull and modules requiring dock time to fix.
It will work, but please, feel free to flame away... |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
1323
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 22:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Or they could just build an ecosystem of caps that can counter one-another as they've done with subcaps. I mean, there's only a handfull of caps right now... T2 dreads to kill supers, cyno jammer / tackle cap ships (cap HICs), EW / jammer caps, neut and drain caps, etc... solves a pile of problems all at once.
|
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
488
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 22:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:I think first of all they should be like 10x more expensive in mats and about 2.5x longer to build.
Then, they should ALWAYS be present in space. There should be none of this "logging off and the ship goes poof" nonsense. You can dock them to a POS with defenses, but they should always be targetable and attackable.
Then, they should have insane upkeep costs in the form of crew and consumables.
As well, they should take very minimal but constant damage to hull and modules requiring dock time to fix.
It will work, but please, feel free to flame away...
I think OP is saying that making it even harder to keep a 60b+ asset "safeish" is like, causing the problem.
Pilots have become timid because logoffski is not able to be done like it used to.
"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
|
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
110
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 22:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Touval Lysander wrote:
I think OP is saying that making it even harder to keep a 60b+ asset "safeish" is like, causing the problem.
Pilots have become timid because logoffski is not able to be done like it used to.
Very true, but I disagree with his approach. If you made supercaps have a persistent existence then black ops fleets would become relevant again in a useful and non overpowered way. |
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
488
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 22:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:Touval Lysander wrote:
I think OP is saying that making it even harder to keep a 60b+ asset "safeish" is like, causing the problem.
Pilots have become timid because logoffski is not able to be done like it used to.
Very true, but I disagree with his approach. If you made supercaps have a persistent existence then black ops fleets would become relevant again in a useful and non overpowered way.
blops pilot perchance?
Eve's Razor: The simplest solution to any given problem is where any given profession is given as the solution to the given problem.
"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
|
Ryhss
Clandestine Management Group
23
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 22:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ee Online is supposed to be a sandbox, so there can't be too many Supercarriers or Titans. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10124
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 22:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
Having supers be the answer to supers means that there will be no reason to use anything other than supers, in turn making them more numerous. It'll be all about the supers.
Just remove the Gǣno remote supportGǥ limitation for WDFGs and/or give supers thermal exhaust ports that can be shot with frigate-only proton torpedo launchersGǪ 
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
|
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
110
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 22:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
Touval Lysander wrote:Shizuken wrote:Touval Lysander wrote:
I think OP is saying that making it even harder to keep a 60b+ asset "safeish" is like, causing the problem.
Pilots have become timid because logoffski is not able to be done like it used to.
Very true, but I disagree with his approach. If you made supercaps have a persistent existence then black ops fleets would become relevant again in a useful and non overpowered way. blops pilot perchance? Eve's Razor: The simplest solution to any given problem is where any given profession is given as the solution to the given problem.
lol no. I am a highsec miner and general carebear and do gooder. I make a strong effort not to go out of my way to ruin peoples day. |
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
489
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 23:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:Touval Lysander wrote:Shizuken wrote:Touval Lysander wrote:
I think OP is saying that making it even harder to keep a 60b+ asset "safeish" is like, causing the problem.
Pilots have become timid because logoffski is not able to be done like it used to.
Very true, but I disagree with his approach. If you made supercaps have a persistent existence then black ops fleets would become relevant again in a useful and non overpowered way. blops pilot perchance? Eve's Razor: The simplest solution to any given problem is where any given profession is given as the solution to the given problem. lol no. I am a highsec miner and general carebear and do gooder. I make a strong effort not to go out of my way to ruin peoples day.
That's the same as saying "I am a Liar"
In Eve Zealotology, if you "make a strong effort not to go out of my way to ruin peoples day" then you are not playing Eve so you have no need to "make a strong effort not to go out of my way to ruin peoples day" because you are "not playing Eve".
Go forth and de-multiply soldier.
"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
|
Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
335
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 23:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Simple, make doomsdays disable jump drive of your target for x minutes. |
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
489
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 23:19:00 -
[23] - Quote
Nalha Saldana wrote:Simple, make doomsdays disable jump drive of your target for x minutes.
Even simpler, make DD AoE^10 what it used to be.
Kill EVERYTHING ON GRID- single shot.
I'd buy one.
"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
|
Tobiaz
Spacerats
711
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 23:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
CCP made the very stupid mistake of making the Titan a combat ship. this means it scales and so 'more is better'.
Combined with the ease and negligible cost for individuals to own and operate their own personal titan the situation where there are more Titans used in the game then EAF for instance was inevitable.
Titans (and in lesser degree Motherships) should have been mobile stations, with full docking capabilities and perhaps even allowing players to log off at the ship itself. It should have been considered a corporate asset like an outpost. Not someone's personal e-peen extension.
Exorbitant operating costs should have kept it out of the hands of individual players and restricted it to alliances, to be used it as a mobile HQ for big operations. And even though, having a personal frontline station is a enormous force multiplier for allliance invasions, this doesn't scale very well. So there would likely only have been a few dozen of them in the game (and because of all the stuff stored in them, losing them would have been very painful, both financially and strategically), keeping them rare and 'a big deal'.
But CCP simply doesn't get it. First a anti-support with a 50M ISK shot easily capable of killing billions ISK worth of ships. Now a dreadnought insta-popper, countering the ship which is supposed to be balancing it. Not to mention the ease with which it used to blap battleships.
And now we're at a point where the rich elite will do and say anything to just to make sure their (specially trained) personal Titan-alt doesn't become redundant.
Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt
Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |
Mocam
EVE University
Ivy League
183
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 03:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bold and reckless...
A super cap pilot losing ships (note the plural) = not given access to such ships to use anymore. Why? Because they take a while and cost quite a bit to build. The only way to enable this is mechanics that put the ships at risk so such risks become acceptable to the group backing their use.
As for Tobiaz's statements - change bridges: Reverse the functionality and adjust the use specs to accommodate the change (so they can function in this fashion).
Require the fleet to be at a cyno point awaiting a bridge. The bridging ship establishes the connection to that cyno which appears as a wormhole entrance that they use like a wormhole but the Titan/BO cannot "send" them - the fleet comes in to where the bridging ship is at. A 1-way trip to the target.
For proper use of such bridges - you'd need 2 cyno capable ships along. 1 that the bridging ships uses to get to a system (jumps to) - 1 with the gang/fleet for a bridge to be set to for the gang to use the new "wormhole" to get to the bridging ship.
That would mean a titan would have to *BE THERE* to bring a fleet in, putting it in the combat area before it could launch a bridge to bring a fleet to the field. No "safely sending" from some other system - they'd bring a fleet to where they were at.
Just one idea on the topic. Change the mechanics to put them at more risk when deployed offensively. |
destiny2
47
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 04:17:00 -
[26] - Quote
since titans have gone to sh*t lately with their nerf supers are more useful in fights.
so how do you counter a Supercap fleet?, with a frick ton of dread's |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
107
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 04:28:00 -
[27] - Quote
Meh...caps are like taxi's to many and boring we need mobile shipyards with lots a guns ..warp in crap out 16 titans some moms and start firing your area DD,s..yup.
"it put ore down in can or it gets the hose again"
http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg |
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
124
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 08:10:00 -
[28] - Quote
There are so many capitals and supercapitals because there are only two reasons to bring them: POS shooting and to counter an enemy POS shooting cap fleet. |
JitaPriceChecker2
State War Academy
Caldari State
180
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 08:23:00 -
[29] - Quote
Upkeep costs ...
Make them require fuel every hour. When out it the go to off line mod , cant move,warp, dissapear and take 24 hours to restart. |
Shanlara
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
26
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 08:58:00 -
[30] - Quote
This is an idea that have been stucked with me ever since they made the new battlecruisers,
Why not make the same thing for a battleship, lower ehp around a normal battlecruiser and x-large weapons, anti capital ship, fast enough to avoid most super cap weapons, but high enough dmg to make a severe dent in the super caps, at least super caps without a seriose back up of sup caps to take out those ships, making a bit more dynamic in fleets, counters are not always a bad thing, and ofcause to not making capitals useless, these ships can't shoot structors, there's properly way more ways to balance it, but it seems like a better way then keep nerfing super caps, super caps should be strong, but they should also have some sort of counter that also have it's own counters.
Well that's just my thoughts of how to do something about the super cap flood. |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |