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mightygerm
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Posted - 2005.04.01 16:57:00 -
[1]
Hybrid Turrets have gotten a slight decrease in Capacitor usage and some Hybrid Turrets now use slightly less Powergrid.
http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp
wooooooooooot
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Arimas Talasko
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Posted - 2005.04.01 16:58:00 -
[2]
SWEET MAYBE I WILL SEE NEUTRON
Supremacy Keepin it Real |
Sangxianc
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Posted - 2005.04.01 17:03:00 -
[3]
I'll wait and see, but in theory this should be very good news.
-
Any man's death diminishes me, as I am involved in mankinde; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee. |
Akaviri
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Posted - 2005.04.01 17:19:00 -
[4]
This is what's on Sisi now.
Electron Blaster Cannon I: 14 Cap -> 12 Cap, 1500 MW -> 1250 MW
Electron Blaster Cannon II: 14 Cap -> 12 Cap, 1575 MW -> 1313 MW
Ion Blaster Cannon I: 23 Cap -> 20 Cap, 2000 MW -> 1750 MW
Ion Blaster Cannon II: 23 Cap -> 20 Cap, 2100 MW -> 1838 MW
Neutron Blaster Cannon I: 30 Cap -> 26 Cap, 2750 MW -> 2250 MW
Neutron Blaster Cannon II: 30 Cap -> 26 Cap, 2888 MW -> 2363 MW
Dual 250mm Railgun I: unchanged
Dual 250mm Railgun II: unchanged
350mm Railgun I: 25 Cap -> 22 Cap, 2150 MW -> 1875 MW
350mm Railgun II: 25 Cap -> 22 Cap, 2258 MW -> 1969 MW
425mm Railgun I: 34 Cap -> 30 Cap, 2750 MW -> 2500 MW
425mm Railgun II: 34 Cap -> 30 Cap, 2888 MW -> 2625 MW
````````````` _ |\_
````````````` \` oo\
````````_____/ =__Y=
`````` /` `````` )
`_``` / ` , ``` \/\_.(\_/)
((____| `` )_--\ \_-`(x.x)
`------'`------` `--` (> <) Kitty pwns Bunny! |
sableye
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Posted - 2005.04.01 17:21:00 -
[5]
Edited by: sableye on 01/04/2005 17:22:03
wow them power changes look very nice and seems to make neutrons way more usable, any idea if its just large turrets or have mediums/smalls been altered as well.
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Akaviri
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Posted - 2005.04.01 17:29:00 -
[6]
Here are the medium hybrids.
Heavy Electron Blaster I/II: 4.67 Cap -> 4 Cap
Heavy Ion Blaster I/II: 7.67 Cap -> 6.67 Cap
Heavy Neutron Blaster I/II: 10 Cap -> 8.67 Cap
Dual 150mm Railgun I/II: unchanged
200mm Railgun I/II: 7.33 Cap -> 6.45 Cap
250mm Railgun I/II: 11.33 Cap -> 10 Cap
````````````` _ |\_
````````````` \` oo\
````````_____/ =__Y=
`````` /` `````` )
`_``` / ` , ``` \/\_.(\_/)
((____| `` )_--\ \_-`(x.x)
`------'`------` `--` (> <) Kitty pwns Bunny! |
sableye
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Posted - 2005.04.01 17:31:00 -
[7]
would have been nice to get a little less grid use on the mediums but you can't have everything :)
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Akaviri
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Posted - 2005.04.01 17:36:00 -
[8]
Now for the small hybrid turrets.
Light Electron Blaster I/II: 1.56 Cap -> 1.34 Cap
Light Ion Blaster I/II: 2.56 Cap -> 2.23 Cap
Light Neutron Blaster I/II: 3.33 Cap -> 2.89 Cap
75mm Gatling Rail I/II: unchanged
125mm Railgun I/II: 2.44 Cap -> 2.15 Cap
150mm Railgun I/II: 3.78 Cap -> 3.34 Cap
It seems that the Dual 250mm, Dual 150mm, and the 75mm Railguns all got overlooked.
````````````` _ |\_
````````````` \` oo\
````````_____/ =__Y=
`````` /` `````` )
`_``` / ` , ``` \/\_.(\_/)
((____| `` )_--\ \_-`(x.x)
`------'`------` `--` (> <) Kitty pwns Bunny! |
Akaviri
|
Posted - 2005.04.01 17:41:00 -
[9]
These may not be the final values since the test server is on patch 3356 and the upcoming patch for tranquility is patch 3364. Still, things are looking better for Gallente battleships.
````````````` _ |\_
````````````` \` oo\
````````_____/ =__Y=
`````` /` `````` )
`_``` / ` , ``` \/\_.(\_/)
((____| `` )_--\ \_-`(x.x)
`------'`------` `--` (> <) Kitty pwns Bunny! |
Face Lifter
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Posted - 2005.04.01 17:44:00 -
[10]
I think they should have reduced grid on medium blasters too
Now it seems like you might see some neutrons on battleships, but you still won't see them on cruisers
CCP hates cruisers
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Alyth
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Posted - 2005.04.01 19:00:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: Face Lifter
I think they should have reduced grid on medium blasters too
Now it seems like you might see some neutrons on battleships, but you still won't see them on cruisers
CCP hates cruisers
Yeah thats a shame.....
With target painters in the game now, the godawful tracking on the larger rails may be cancelled out a bit against smaller targets.....might also see gankageddons with one less gun though if these are highslot mods....
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Isonkon Serikain
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Posted - 2005.04.01 20:08:00 -
[12]
Lame the grid did not get changed on smalls... Neutrons are still impossible to fit...
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.04.01 20:17:00 -
[13]
Hmmm, when player reactions indicate that:
a. Railguns were fine
b. CPU is one of the mayor problems
c. Capacitor use is just fine, we just want value for it
But it's a boost, not a nerf, for once. I shouldn't complain really...
--
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. |
Thanit
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Posted - 2005.04.01 20:18:00 -
[14]
Anyone test if 6 neuts+ 2 siege will fit on a blasterthron with MWD and injector ? 1x CPU enhancer or pdu is allowed.
I'm lazy, and my sisi account sucks for lack of ships to fit :(
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Gierling
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Posted - 2005.04.01 20:21:00 -
[15]
I don't think anyone was complaining that rails were fine.
CPU is a problem still but its much less of one now that grid isn't a problem as well.
Bastards we are lest Bastards we become. |
Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2005.04.01 22:06:00 -
[16]
reduction on light and heavy neutrons needs be worked in as well. CPU is now a horrible problem, but the PG reqs frees up a lot of grid, which is very nice.
cap usage reduction. Sigh... it is pretty much worthless. I'd rather have seen the love go to dmg or cpu reduction, which has been said time and time again.
On the other hand the PG reduction on large blasters, especially neutrons, is excellent. Bravo CCP for that one.
I am the OG PIIIIIMP |
Altai Saker
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Posted - 2005.04.01 22:21:00 -
[17]
why did the nerf on pulse lasers carry down to all sizes but the hybrid "boost" doesnt?
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Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2005.04.01 22:36:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Altai Saker
why did the nerf on pulse lasers carry down to all sizes but the hybrid "boost" doesnt?
Cause most of the people complaining about blasters were disgruntled megathron pilots.
IMO, light neutron needs to be dropped to 9, heavy neut needs to be dropped to 185 and heavy ions to 140.
I am the OG PIIIIIMP |
Meridius
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Posted - 2005.04.01 22:43:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Altai Saker
why did the nerf on pulse lasers carry down to all sizes but the hybrid "boost" doesnt?
Cause most of the people complaining about blasters were disgruntled megathron pilots.
IMO, light neutron needs to be dropped to 9, heavy neut needs to be dropped to 185 and heavy ions to 140.
Wrong, it's because grid/cpu are not linked between different weapon sizes.
The Taranis is fine, the Thorax is still overpowered, the Deimos is fine.
Stop whining ffs.
________________________________________________________
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.04.01 23:44:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Altai Saker
why did the nerf on pulse lasers carry down to all sizes but the hybrid "boost" doesnt?
I think they changed the axtrapolation calculation. Meaning that it's only the extrapolated stats that'll get changed (i.e. the cruiser and larger)
--
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. |
soap man
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Posted - 2005.04.02 00:41:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Altai Saker
why did the nerf on pulse lasers carry down to all sizes but the hybrid "boost" doesnt?
Cause most of the people complaining about blasters were disgruntled megathron pilots.
IMO, light neutron needs to be dropped to 9, heavy neut needs to be dropped to 185 and heavy ions to 140.
Wrong, it's because grid/cpu are not linked between different weapon sizes.
The Taranis is fine, the Thorax is still overpowered, the Deimos is fine.
Stop whining ffs.
The thorax is fine - a maller or caracal have a fair match any day.
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2005.04.02 00:52:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Face Lifter on 02/04/2005 00:56:38
I think Thorax's drone bay is overpowered.. the damage 8 heavy drones add is like having a 2nd cruiser with you
EDIT: let me rephrase that.
I think all other tech 1 cruiser are underpowered, while Thorax is actually pretty decent
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Branmuffin
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Posted - 2005.04.02 01:05:00 -
[23]
Why does the Vexor have less dronebay then a Thorax?
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.04.02 01:43:00 -
[24]
Because it has a skill requirement of cruiser 3, and that makes it sooo hard to use that it has to be way better then every other ship...
No, to be honest, that doesn't matter at all... You need a dronebay of 3750 to fit 15 heavy drones in your bay - and if any cruiser could it would be seriously overpowered.
The Thorax can fit 8 heavy drones, but doesn't have a drone bonus - the Vexor has +1 drone per level, so it can theoretically launch 15, however, it can only benefit from that bonus when using medium drones...
I generally agree that it's not really fair that a Thorax can do about twice as much damage with drones then a Vexor though...
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.04.02 02:04:00 -
[25]
Does a Megathron have more drones then a Dominix?
Don't argue, it just makes you look stupid.
The Thorax's dronebay should be cut by 1000m3. Perhaps the Vexor should get it's increased to 2000m3 but i think there are more important issues that need to be fixed first...
________________________________________________________
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RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2005.04.02 02:19:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Meridius
The Thorax's dronebay should be cut by 1000m3.
So should the arma's for that matter. The fact that the armageddon has the same drone bay as the megathron seems wrong, since it does enough damage anyway, and the gallente are the drone users (thank god we got something useful like drones o.0).
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Raem Civrie
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Posted - 2005.04.02 02:35:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Isonkon Serikain
Lame the grid did not get changed on smalls... Neutrons are still impossible to fit...
My taranis fits 3.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.04.02 02:42:00 -
[28]
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
Originally by: Meridius
The Thorax's dronebay should be cut by 1000m3.
So should the arma's for that matter. The fact that the armageddon has the same drone bay as the megathron seems wrong, since it does enough damage anyway, and the gallente are the drone users (thank god we got something useful like drones o.0).
Agreed.
________________________________________________________
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Slithereen
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Posted - 2005.04.02 03:05:00 -
[29]
Brutix still needs a bit of grid and cap lovin'.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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Kathulu
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Posted - 2005.04.02 03:12:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Noriath
No, to be honest, that doesn't matter at all... You need a dronebay of 3750 to fit 15 heavy drones in your bay - and if any cruiser could it would be seriously overpowered.
the ishtar can hold 20 heavey drones but of course thats tech II with max heavy assualt ship
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OVERCOPES 1
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Posted - 2005.04.02 05:36:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Kathulu
Originally by: Noriath
No, to be honest, that doesn't matter at all... You need a dronebay of 3750 to fit 15 heavy drones in your bay - and if any cruiser could it would be seriously overpowered.
the ishtar can hold 20 heavey drones but of course thats tech II with max heavy assualt ship
funny i thought it was 18.
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2005.04.02 05:49:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Face Lifter on 02/04/2005 05:49:53
nm
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Eamz
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Posted - 2005.04.02 06:04:00 -
[33]
Powergrid was never the problem with the blasters. Its just people tried to fit heavy injectors, armour repairers and other things as well. THE MAJOR PROBLEM HAS ALWAYS BEEN CPU. When you have to fit all NAMED modules with the least powerful weapons there IS something wrong.
Also, the cap change. It wont make any noticable difference. They should have changed the dmg bonus to ROF on dom/mega then halved the cap usage. Then we would have had like a 20% decrease in cap and an 8% increase in damage at lvl 5 BS. That would have been much more sensible.
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Naal Morno
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Posted - 2005.04.02 07:19:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Naal Morno on 02/04/2005 07:24:00
Originally by: Thanit
Anyone test if 6 neuts+ 2 siege will fit on a blasterthron with MWD and injector ? 1x CPU enhancer or pdu is allowed.
I'm lazy, and my sisi account sucks for lack of ships to fit :(
Yup, 6 neutrons + 2 sieges, MWd and heavy injector fit with help of one PdU2. ship is at 20,000 of 20,343 PGP so you can fit med T2 repper as well and have 5 more slots for your enjoyment 
Edit: 5 low slots and 2 med slots, but we know med slots are already taken 
Your Heavy Neutron Blaster II perfectly strikes Serpentis Chief Sentinel, wrecking for 660.4 damage.
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Baun
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Posted - 2005.04.02 09:42:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Altai Saker
why did the nerf on pulse lasers carry down to all sizes but the hybrid "boost" doesnt?
Cause most of the people complaining about blasters were disgruntled megathron pilots.
IMO, light neutron needs to be dropped to 9, heavy neut needs to be dropped to 185 and heavy ions to 140.
Wrong, it's because grid/cpu are not linked between different weapon sizes.
The Taranis is fine, the Thorax is still overpowered, the Deimos is fine.
Stop whining ffs.
I agree more or less .... but its still true that there isnt really a ship out there (but a megathron, and who wants to do that) that can use Medium Neutrons.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2005.04.02 09:59:00 -
[36]
Looking at it from a dominix perspetive, you could fit 6x electron blaster cannons and a large rep, 6x ion blaster cannons with no rep or 6x 350 rails with no rep without an RCU now (granted with 0 grid left in the case of the 350's, so you would need at least an PDU even to shield tank, though 350 rails + PDU's + shield tank is more attractive now ?), where you couldn't realistically do that before.
It also helps out the scorp's ability to fit rails if you think about it.
.
-----
Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.04.02 10:18:00 -
[37]
still bigger problem is CPU on Megathron. As short range guns electrons (smallest guns) are pretty ok, though i hope to fit ions.
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Thanit
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Posted - 2005.04.02 11:12:00 -
[38]
Biggest question for me.
Will the 13.3% cap use reduction on neutrons allow me to use neuts+nos and lose the cap injector going for passive cap recharge with a one L repairer and 2-3 hardener tank only ?
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0seeker0
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Posted - 2005.04.02 11:31:00 -
[39]
Edited by: 0seeker0 on 02/04/2005 11:31:35
Originally by: Thanit
Biggest question for me.
Will the 13.3% cap use reduction on neutrons allow me to use neuts+nos and lose the cap injector going for passive cap recharge with a one L repairer and 2-3 hardener tank only ?
Well, you could always drop a neutron for another nos.
Edit; and use the extra grid for a tech 2 large repper :)
San.
Character "Widescreen" is a scammer; beware.
Check my bio for a list of known scammers.
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Cinnander
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Posted - 2005.04.02 11:38:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Cinnander on 02/04/2005 11:39:58
WRT an earlier post (P1) I dont think that 75mm(II), Dual 150mm(II) and Dual 250mm(II) need that much of a grid/cap nerf - or boost, or whatever this is - as they hardly use any as it is.
For instance you can fit a full rack of Dual 150mms on a Thorax and still have enough grid to fit a Medium Rep. and 3 hardeners.
Tho currently tanking a cruiser (other than say an Adaptive Nano and a rep.) is questionable as to whether you should bother (they die pretty fast, either way).
Also, with 75mms, an incursus for example has like 50% of it's powergrid left over even with an MWD.. so these 'low calibre' weapons seem OK. Only ones that might be a bit to heavy (cap wise) is Dual 150s as you'd prolly need a good 2 CPRs or a Cap Recharger to support them due to high ROF, especially if you start throwing Magnetic Field Stabilisers around.
---
Shame no lovin' for medium Ions/Neutrons :(
And a stealth-un-nerf to the light Ion would have been appreciated. (-1 pg, atm you either fit a MAPC on an incursus or go with Neutrons, or you use something else). |
Iratus Caelestis
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Posted - 2005.04.02 12:36:00 -
[41]
Yay, nice to see medium and small hybrids ignored in the grid changes.
Tomb's line on ship fittings in the past is that no ship can fit a full rack of the highest damage weapon without mods. For most blaster fits on cruisers and frigs it's a tight squeeze even for the medium damage (Ions) version.
Please have a look at this before the patch is released Tomb, even if you just apply the change in a proportional way getting that same 10%-18% grid reduction on blasters and rails will go someway to levelling out the problems these ships have, cap change on its own is pretty useless unless you are changing the proportional damage we are able to do.
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Stepping Razor
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Posted - 2005.04.02 13:03:00 -
[42]
As others have said, a CPU reduction was much more needed than a grid reduction. Anyone who isn't clear on that, simply try to fit 6 425s or 6 Ions on a megathron with a decent PvP loadout, and see what you what you are shortest on %age wise.
And I don't mean using meta modules. Try it with normal tech 1s....
Razor
Razor
Originally by: Bonaventure Phaidon
CCP is the best at at least three things:
1. Really, really fun gameplay
2. Good forum presence
3. Inventing new and exciting ways to bring about in-game catacly |
El Yatta
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Posted - 2005.04.02 13:04:00 -
[43]
Nope, frigs could already fit neutrons (taranis and incursus, certainly) using 1MAPC. The frigs fit the model perfectly. Cruisers are different,I'll grant you, but considering at least half thte thorax's already massive damage is from EIGHT heavy drones, uprgading it from the typical Light Neuts/ Heavy Elecs to Heavy Ions and Neutrons would make it.... boom. Narsty.
---:::---
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Akaviri
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Posted - 2005.04.02 13:28:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Cinnander
Edited by: Cinnander on 02/04/2005 11:39:58
WRT an earlier post (P1) I dont think that 75mm(II), Dual 150mm(II) and Dual 250mm(II) need that much of a grid/cap nerf - or boost, or whatever this is - as they hardly use any as it is.
Right now I consider the 75mm, Dual 150mm, and Dual 250mm railguns to be the worst guns in their class. Grid wise I think they are fine, but by not giving them a cap boost they become even less desirable to fit to your ship.
Anyway, it's not worth complaining about much. I just think they should at least be consistent with the changes and give every hybrid a cap boost.
````````````` _ |\_
````````````` \` oo\
````````_____/ =__Y=
`````` /` `````` )
`_``` / ` , ``` \/\_.(\_/)
((____| `` )_--\ \_-`(x.x)
`------'`------` `--` (> <) Kitty pwns Bunny! |
Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2005.04.02 13:41:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Akaviri
Originally by: Cinnander
Edited by: Cinnander on 02/04/2005 11:39:58
WRT an earlier post (P1) I dont think that 75mm(II), Dual 150mm(II) and Dual 250mm(II) need that much of a grid/cap nerf - or boost, or whatever this is - as they hardly use any as it is.
Right now I consider the 75mm, Dual 150mm, and Dual 250mm railguns to be the worst guns in their class. Grid wise I think they are fine, but by not giving them a cap boost they become even less desirable to fit to your ship.
Anyway, it's not worth complaining about much. I just think they should at least be consistent with the changes and give every hybrid a cap boost.
I cant really explain it with the dual 150 and dual 250 supposedly extrapolated from its stats, but the 75 actually peforms pretty decently in use, Its probably something to do with frig tracking though I guess.
.
-----
Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.04.02 17:20:00 -
[46]
This is a BIG mistake.
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Kaeten
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Posted - 2005.04.02 18:13:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Selim
This is a BIG mistake.
lol whys that eh? care to give us a reason?
___________________________________
Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante
Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante
Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante |
LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.04.02 19:48:00 -
[48]
no it is not a mistake. good job ccp. Cpu reduction plz.
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Cinnander
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Posted - 2005.04.02 21:12:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Cinnander on 02/04/2005 21:15:46
75mm II are indeed quite good for frigate-scale combat, up to cruiser scale when you have a few people with you.
They track well, and they hit alright at 7km so by the time you've slowed down from being webbed, and slowed the other guy down with YOUR web, you're getting consistent hits in the 30s and 40s, wrecking up to 80s and sometimes over 120 (on structure, admittedly). Doesn't sound like a lot, but not many frigs can take that for long.
Don't use any PG or Cap (effectively) so I don't particularly mind seeing them missed out... (PS Avoid 75mm I like the plague, they pale when juxtaposed to the world-shattering devastation caused by teh 75mm IIs :s)
><))))¦> This is fishy .. You know what to do. |
Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2005.04.03 01:27:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Kaeten
Originally by: Selim
This is a BIG mistake.
lol whys that eh? care to give us a reason?
Reason? and Selim? together? 
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Selim
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Posted - 2005.04.03 05:33:00 -
[51]
hrhrhr
you know juan, if forum stalking was a crime...
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.04.03 07:40:00 -
[52]
tbh, i'm gonna lay off making a big comment on this, simply put..
love the new changes, but at some point you have to stop boosting damage as a fix for bringing 'subpar' ships on level of others, and even at the risk of crucifixion from other mega pilots, i still think its a bad move without doing the HP changes too :/
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.04.03 09:53:00 -
[53]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
tbh, i'm gonna lay off making a big comment on this, simply put..
love the new changes, but at some point you have to stop boosting damage as a fix for bringing 'subpar' ships on level of others, and even at the risk of crucifixion from other mega pilots, i still think its a bad move without doing the HP changes too :/
Damage? It was powergrid (kind of) and capacitor (slightly), not damage being affected.
--
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. |
Alberta
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Posted - 2005.04.03 10:17:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
tbh, i'm gonna lay off making a big comment on this, simply put..
love the new changes, but at some point you have to stop boosting damage as a fix for bringing 'subpar' ships on level of others, and even at the risk of crucifixion from other mega pilots, i still think its a bad move without doing the HP changes too :/
Damage? It was powergrid (kind of) and capacitor (slightly), not damage being affected.
I can't believe somebody needs to point out that being able to fit bigger guns with more dmg mods (cos you don't need an RCU) = more damage.
Digi's right again here. Things are getting silly, and have been for some time now, with regard to damage output vs tanking ability. I wasn't the biggest fan of the HP changes when they were originally announced. I thought it was a half-assed measure which would screw up more situations than it would fix. Right now though, I'd take it as a step in the right direction. What's really needed though is a more holistic approach to balancing the game. Funnily enough the link in my sig is a thread about just such an idea by a very talented pilot (not that I'm biased ofc  ).
My Thoughts on Game Balance |
LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.04.03 10:28:00 -
[55]
yupm hp change is needed: retribution: 933 armor, megathron= 5471 armor...
kindda funny, isn't it?
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KamikazeHamster
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Posted - 2005.04.03 14:23:00 -
[56]
Personally, I'd have liked to see a tiny bit less PG usage on small rails (I don't use Medium/Large, so I wouldn't know about them)
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Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2005.04.03 16:31:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Letifer Deus
The Taranis is fine, the Thorax is still overpowered, the Deimos is fine.
Stop whining ffs.
It was a simple state of opinion, not whining. Taranis is dangerous, but web it and it's pretty much worthless. Thorax is overpowered but it is not the only cruiser and I'm sure a grid reduction on heavy neuts/ions would help out the Brutix.
I am the OG PIIIIIMP |
Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2005.04.03 16:37:00 -
[58]
Originally by: El Yatta
Cruisers are different,I'll grant you, but considering at least half thte thorax's already massive damage is from EIGHT heavy drones, uprgading it from the typical Light Neuts/ Heavy Elecs to Heavy Ions and Neutrons would make it.... boom. Narsty.
Yea, drop the dronebay to 1000 and lower heavy blaster PG.
I am the OG PIIIIIMP |
Arbenowskee
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Posted - 2005.04.03 17:00:00 -
[59]
Well cap reduction is not a good idea, i would prefer that we get more dmg for same amount of cap usage....
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.04.04 18:56:00 -
[60]
I really want to know why railguns got a powergrid use reduction.
Now you can fit SEVEN of them with plenty of powergrid to spare, while on a tempest, you can't even fit 6 without a powergrid enhancing mod!
7 is always better than 6. And the megathron has an obscene drone bay, as well as more cap than a tempest.
Since it doesnt need a lowslot with a rcu, it can fit more damage mods or tank better.
Not to mention that railguns hit further than artillery.
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RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2005.04.04 19:05:00 -
[61]
Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 04/04/2005 19:05:58
Originally by: Selim
I really want to know why railguns got a powergrid use reduction.
Now you can fit SEVEN of them with plenty of powergrid to spare, while on a tempest, you can't even fit 6 without a powergrid enhancing mod!
7 is always better than 6. And the megathron has an obscene drone bay, as well as more cap than a tempest.
Since it doesnt need a lowslot with a rcu, it can fit more damage mods or tank better.
Not to mention that railguns hit further than artillery.
You could fit 7 425s before this change. The only difference after it is that the single medium armor rep that the fleet railthrons had for defense is now a single large armor rep, and you might actually be able to fire all of your turrets without cap relays and not completely drain your cap.
I can really tell you how useful that drone bay is at tempest-combat ranges, too. Drones are awesome at 80k.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.04.04 19:07:00 -
[62]
Originally by: LUKEC
yupm hp change is needed: retribution: 933 armor, megathron= 5471 armor...
kindda funny, isn't it?
Nerf the Retribution!
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.04.04 19:12:00 -
[63]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
tbh, i'm gonna lay off making a big comment on this, simply put..
love the new changes, but at some point you have to stop boosting damage as a fix for bringing 'subpar' ships on level of others, and even at the risk of crucifixion from other mega pilots, i still think its a bad move without doing the HP changes too :/
Right because nerfing is better boosting right?
Giving the client more value for something he spent time on is bad right? Punishing the client for your error is the way to go?
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RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2005.04.04 19:14:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Meridius
Right because nerfing is better boosting right?
Giving the client more value for something he spent time on is bad right? Punishing the client for your error is the way to go?
In some situations - absolutely. For example, I'd rather that pulse lasers were nerfed instead of everything else being boosted to the same levels.
Having every battleship in EVE doing ~1k DpS would be retarded.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.04.04 19:23:00 -
[65]
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
In some situations - absolutely. For example, I'd rather that pulse lasers were nerfed instead of everything else being boosted to the same levels.
Having every battleship in EVE doing ~1k DpS would be retarded.
I hate to burst your bubble but the geddon still does 1k/s damage after the pulse nerf.
Just like all the other poorly thought of nerfs, the intended target doesn't do too badly. That is, the geddon is least affected by this nerf while the smaller Amarrian ships take the crippling hit.
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2005.04.04 19:42:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Parallax Error on 04/04/2005 19:42:50
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
In some situations - absolutely. For example, I'd rather that pulse lasers were nerfed instead of everything else being boosted to the same levels.
Having every battleship in EVE doing ~1k DpS would be retarded.
I hate to burst your bubble but the geddon still does 1k/s damage after the pulse nerf.
Just like all the other poorly thought of nerfs, the intended target doesn't do too badly. That is, the geddon is least affected by this nerf while the smaller Amarrian ships take the crippling hit.
Sad thing is, Meridius, that after this patch they are going to find out exactly what you've said is correct. And Amarr ships or their weapons as a whole are going to be hit again. And why? The devs cant seem to credit the fact that the dynamics of a BS in combat is totally different to the dynamics of a cruiser or frigate in combat. Maybe, just maybe the 3 weapon sizes should be balanced independantly of the other two sizes.
Getting back on topic though, I do think the changes are for the best... even if it does mean the Megathron is now that little bit more scary.
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RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2005.04.04 19:49:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Meridius
I hate to burst your bubble but the geddon still does 1k/s damage after the pulse nerf.
Just like all the other poorly thought of nerfs, the intended target doesn't do too badly. That is, the geddon is least affected by this nerf while the smaller Amarrian ships take the crippling hit.
I know. Believe me, I know. The geddon thing was simply an example to show a situation were a nerf, not a boost was justified.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.04.04 20:38:00 -
[68]
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
You could fit 7 425s before this change. The only difference after it is that the single medium armor rep that the fleet railthrons had for defense is now a single large armor rep, and you might actually be able to fire all of your turrets without cap relays and not completely drain your cap.
I can really tell you how useful that drone bay is at tempest-combat ranges, too. Drones are awesome at 80k.
Its good for dealing with up-close threats, which any self-respecting player will do when fighting you in a smaller battle.
Yes, there actually is combat that doesn't involve huge fleetblobs! OMFG!
Oh... and I'd like an armor repairer on my tempest, a 7th turret and the powergrid to fit it all, please.
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Gierling
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Posted - 2005.04.04 20:50:00 -
[69]
As a Gallente Player I have no problem whatsoever with helping the minmater players out.
Bastards we are lest Bastards we become. |
Meridius
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Posted - 2005.04.04 20:56:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Meridius on 04/04/2005 20:57:16
Originally by: Parallax Error
Sad thing is, Meridius, that after this patch they are going to find out exactly what you've said is correct. And Amarr ships or their weapons as a whole are going to be hit again. And why? The devs cant seem to credit the fact that the dynamics of a BS in combat is totally different to the dynamics of a cruiser or frigate in combat. Maybe, just maybe the 3 weapon sizes should be balanced independantly of the other two sizes.
Getting back on topic though, I do think the changes are for the best... even if it does mean the Megathron is now that little bit more scary.
Sad thing for me is i stopped flying a geddon many months ago. I mainly fly inties/zealot. After this patch, i think i'll be back in the old geddon, irony ftw.
About the hybrid changes, yes i don't mind them either. I've endorsed something like this several times. I just wish this came in before the pulse nerf (nerf geddon instead).
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RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2005.04.04 21:26:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Selim
Its good for dealing with up-close threats, which any self-respecting player will do when fighting you in a smaller battle.
Up-close threat tempests are using autocannon. Which you can fit 6 of without powergrid mods.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Altai Saker
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Posted - 2005.04.04 21:52:00 -
[72]
lol I like how selim is telling rollindutch(like the omgwtfmaster of lone pirating) that theres more to eve than blobbing it up... rofl
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Novo DuPont
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Posted - 2005.04.04 21:55:00 -
[73]
I am sorry what was the complaint from tempest pilots??
That they can only fit 6 of their largest guns while Megathrons can fit 7??
Geez I guess the fact that Arty's use practically no cap when firing compared to hybrids doesn't give Tempest pilots ANY advantage
"To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2005.04.04 22:13:00 -
[74]
what about poor Caldari people that can fit only 4 guns and get no damage bonus? (aside Ferox)
boohoo
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.04.04 23:04:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Novo DuPont
I am sorry what was the complaint from tempest pilots??
That they can only fit 6 of their largest guns while Megathrons can fit 7??
Geez I guess the fact that Arty's use practically no cap when firing compared to hybrids doesn't give Tempest pilots ANY advantage
Are you going to use the no cap argument for everything?
Artillery tracking sucks. You say, they use no cap.
Artillery damage sucks. You say, they use no cap.
Artillery are impossible to fit. You say, they use no cap.
You can only fit 6. You say, they use no cap.
Honestly, you suck.
Altai, do you -ever- post anything worth reading? I mean, all you seem to do is post insignificant taunts.
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.04.04 23:11:00 -
[76]
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
Originally by: Selim
Its good for dealing with up-close threats, which any self-respecting player will do when fighting you in a smaller battle.
Up-close threat tempests are using autocannon. Which you can fit 6 of without powergrid mods.
Up-close threat megathrons are using blasters. Which you can fit 7 of without powergrid mods. (Electrons)
What is your point? The megathron is still better than the tempest at close range. It does more gun damage, it has more drones and its guns track alot better. Cap isn't an issue because you'll kill him before you run out.
I'm talking about railguns here. A megathron with railguns is much easier to fit than a tempest with artillery already, without the boost. It does more damage per second, which is alot more useful than stupid 'alpha-strikes'. And as I said, its got its drone bay to smack cruisers and frigates out of the sky up close.
I just don't see the problem. The hybrids needed a cap use reduction, not a powergrid use reduction.
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jamesw
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Posted - 2005.04.04 23:22:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Selim
I just don't see the problem. The hybrids needed a cap use reduction, not a powergrid use reduction.
Originally by: Patch Notes
Hybrid Turrets have gotten a slight decrease in Capacitor usage and some Hybrid Turrets now use slightly less Powergrid.
--
jamesw
Rubra Libertas Militia
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
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Hyey
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Posted - 2005.04.04 23:28:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Novo DuPont
I am sorry what was the complaint from tempest pilots??
That they can only fit 6 of their largest guns while Megathrons can fit 7??
Geez I guess the fact that Arty's use practically no cap when firing compared to hybrids doesn't give Tempest pilots ANY advantage
You always use the NO CAP "advantage" we have. Sorry guy its not much of an advantage when you factor in our crap cap and our crap tracking :/
Btw, we cant EVEN fit 6, we already need a power grid module for just 6 of them. You guys are now able to fit 7 neutrons with no powergrid module. YAY...
On to the apparent autocannon spoof. First off blasters are infinately more powerful ok. Now we go onto the fact that we can still only fit 6 of them with no pg issues and you guys still get 7 neutrons with over 3000 pg left to spare... yes... its fair :/
Railguns didnt need a powergrid reduction as said above as much as a cap reduction/cpu reduction.
~~
Hyey
I just payed 15 dollars this month just to be able to respond on the forums... stupid cancellation error.
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RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2005.04.04 23:36:00 -
[79]
I'm not arguing projectiles shouldnt be improved. I'm arguing that you can kiss my ass if you think projectiles sucking is a reason to not improve gallente ships, to the point where they can be competitive with amarr and caldari battleships.
Oh, and Altai, I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Hyey
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Posted - 2005.04.04 23:38:00 -
[80]
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
I'm not arguing projectiles shouldnt be improved. I'm arguing that you can kiss my ass if you think projectiles sucking is a reason to not improve gallente ships, to the point where they can be competitive with amarr and caldari battleships.
Oh, and Altai, I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can.
I agree though, both should be really onpar with amarr/caldari bs's. The projectiles got a boost and now its the hybrids turn. Go for it but when I saw posts (and personal experience.) PG wasent the problem I had, it was CPU and stupid amount of CAP usage.
Both could still use tinkering (Hybrids more so.)
~~
Hyey
I just payed 15 dollars this month just to be able to respond on the forums... stupid cancellation error.
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jamesw
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Posted - 2005.04.04 23:52:00 -
[81]
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
Oh, and Altai, I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can.
LMAO I am so putting that in my sig now 
--
jamesw
Rubra Libertas Militia
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
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Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2005.04.05 00:10:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Hyey
Originally by: Novo DuPont
Btw, we cant EVEN fit 6, we already need a power grid module for just 6 of them. You guys are now able to fit 7 neutrons with no powergrid module. YAY...
On to the apparent autocannon spoof. First off blasters are infinately more powerful ok. Now we go onto the fact that we can still only fit 6 of them with no pg issues and you guys still get 7 neutrons with over 3000 pg left to spare... yes... its fair :/
Railguns didnt need a powergrid reduction as said above as much as a cap reduction/cpu reduction.
first off, if i hear one more person saying hybrids needed a cap reduction, im going to hit them. The cap reduction that was implimented doesn't do much.
second, blasters are not "infinately" more powerful than ACs. 800mm has same DOT as an ion blaster with lvl 5 BS.
third, blasters did need PG reduction, though i think the neutrons got dropped too low, 2500 would have been about right. As for rails, they were fine how they were.
Er, wait, I'm a hybrid user, leave it all how it is, and, uh, give us a cpu reduction too
BTW, projectiles don't use cap, you know that right?
I am the OG PIIIIIMP |
Hyey
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Posted - 2005.04.05 03:53:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Hyey on 05/04/2005 03:53:27
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Hyey
Btw, we cant EVEN fit 6, we already need a power grid module for just 6 of them. You guys are now able to fit 7 neutrons with no powergrid module. YAY...
On to the apparent autocannon spoof. First off blasters are infinately more powerful ok. Now we go onto the fact that we can still only fit 6 of them with no pg issues and you guys still get 7 neutrons with over 3000 pg left to spare... yes... its fair :/
Railguns didnt need a powergrid reduction as said above as much as a cap reduction/cpu reduction.
first off, if i hear one more person saying hybrids needed a cap reduction, im going to hit them. The cap reduction that was implimented doesn't do much.
second, blasters are not "infinately" more powerful than ACs. 800mm has same DOT as an ion blaster with lvl 5 BS.
third, blasters did need PG reduction, though i think the neutrons got dropped too low, 2500 would have been about right. As for rails, they were fine how they were.
Er, wait, I'm a hybrid user, leave it all how it is, and, uh, give us a cpu reduction too
BTW, projectiles don't use cap, you know that right?
And If I hear one more person saying that projectiles dont use cap therefore we shouldnt be able to fit 6 of our guns or other such BS im going to smack them as well.
KK so my 800mm has the same dot as something more comparable to the dual 650mm. Fine dude I have higher falloff I guess its not THAT much more powerful whatever I wont argue something thats not overly important.
The only reason I say cap reduction is simply because they take more cap than lasers to use which with the weaker gallente cap is plain stupid. So you dont want a cap reduction, and you want a CPU reduction. TAKE WHATEVER I DONT CARE.
The point was you can fit 7 of your most powerful guns PG wise while I can only fit 5 which honestly is just annoying 
~~
Hyey
I just payed 15 dollars this month just to be able to respond on the forums... stupid cancellation error.
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Bobbeh
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Posted - 2005.04.05 07:17:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Hyey
Originally by: Novo DuPont
Btw, we cant EVEN fit 6, we already need a power grid module for just 6 of them. You guys are now able to fit 7 neutrons with no powergrid module. YAY...
On to the apparent autocannon spoof. First off blasters are infinately more powerful ok. Now we go onto the fact that we can still only fit 6 of them with no pg issues and you guys still get 7 neutrons with over 3000 pg left to spare... yes... its fair :/
Railguns didnt need a powergrid reduction as said above as much as a cap reduction/cpu reduction.
first off, if i hear one more person saying hybrids needed a cap reduction, im going to hit them. The cap reduction that was implimented doesn't do much.
second, blasters are not "infinately" more powerful than ACs. 800mm has same DOT as an ion blaster with lvl 5 BS.
third, blasters did need PG reduction, though i think the neutrons got dropped too low, 2500 would have been about right. As for rails, they were fine how they were.
Er, wait, I'm a hybrid user, leave it all how it is, and, uh, give us a cpu reduction too
BTW, projectiles don't use cap, you know that right?
No, with the following skills : lvl 5 bs, lvl 5 gun (proj/hyb), lvl 5 gunnery, lvl 4 surg, lvl 5 rapid firing.
A Ion blaster cannon on a megathron outdamages an 800mm on a tempest by over 25%. So you are wrong, by a huge amount infact.
Mimiru > It'd be a tie, the monkies nerfed pooflinger wouldnt have enough tracking to hit the parrot orbiting him, but the parrot's beak is so small it couldnt break the monkey's fur tanking. |
Hoolk
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Posted - 2005.04.05 08:53:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Hoolk on 05/04/2005 08:53:32
Hmm... 7 tech2 rails on a mega witouth pdu/rcu in low, thats good. I cant even have 6 tech1 1400 on my tempest :( . Im gonna train rails now.
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Vicious Vic
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Posted - 2005.04.05 10:00:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Bobbeh
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Hyey
Originally by: Novo DuPont
Btw, we cant EVEN fit 6, we already need a power grid module for just 6 of them. You guys are now able to fit 7 neutrons with no powergrid module. YAY...
On to the apparent autocannon spoof. First off blasters are infinately more powerful ok. Now we go onto the fact that we can still only fit 6 of them with no pg issues and you guys still get 7 neutrons with over 3000 pg left to spare... yes... its fair :/
Railguns didnt need a powergrid reduction as said above as much as a cap reduction/cpu reduction.
first off, if i hear one more person saying hybrids needed a cap reduction, im going to hit them. The cap reduction that was implimented doesn't do much.
second, blasters are not "infinately" more powerful than ACs. 800mm has same DOT as an ion blaster with lvl 5 BS.
third, blasters did need PG reduction, though i think the neutrons got dropped too low, 2500 would have been about right. As for rails, they were fine how they were.
Er, wait, I'm a hybrid user, leave it all how it is, and, uh, give us a cpu reduction too
BTW, projectiles don't use cap, you know that right?
No, with the following skills : lvl 5 bs, lvl 5 gun (proj/hyb), lvl 5 gunnery, lvl 4 surg, lvl 5 rapid firing.
A Ion blaster cannon on a megathron outdamages an 800mm on a tempest by over 25%. So you are wrong, by a huge amount infact.
It is called range
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.04.05 11:28:00 -
[87]
i think rails were pretty ok, but blasters were not.
Secondly, anyone really bothered to fit t2 ions or t2 electrons to MT? Cause problem is not pg but cpu... you cannot really fit t2 guns still.
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Angus Torg
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Posted - 2005.04.05 11:53:00 -
[88]
Originally by: LUKEC
i think rails were pretty ok, but blasters were not.
Secondly, anyone really bothered to fit t2 ions or t2 electrons to MT? Cause problem is not pg but cpu... you cannot really fit t2 guns still.
Well, with the new stats you can fit 6 Neutron Blaster Cannon II on a Mega. Together with a MWD and Large Armor Repairer. But I'm not sure yet, what to fit for kicking those freaky frigs'n'intys.
Medium Smartbombs maybe...
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Dannyy
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Posted - 2005.04.05 11:59:00 -
[89]
7 modal neuts and a heavy diminishing with the usual blasterthron crap on it still gets owned by a full skilled standard setup torp Raven when starting at 20km.
However, it melts a tanked apoc like there's no tomorrow.
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.04.05 12:18:00 -
[90]
yup, that's why you need tank on megathron. But problem is:
7x ionsII = 346.5cpu... you need another 170 for med slots...
which leaves you with exactly: 171cpu for low... 1x lar & 1x med = 75cpu...
5 slots & 100 cpu... wonder what to do with em...
In the end i will still use electrons after the patch.
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Hailstorm
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Posted - 2005.04.05 15:20:00 -
[91]
It'd be nice to see some pg reduction to the medium hybrids. Especially the Brutix could've used that change. Then again, that ship is outta wack by itself.
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Angus Torg
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Posted - 2005.04.05 15:32:00 -
[92]
Originally by: LUKEC
yup, that's why you need tank on megathron. But problem is:
7x ionsII = 346.5cpu... you need another 170 for med slots...
which leaves you with exactly: 171cpu for low... 1x lar & 1x med = 75cpu...
5 slots & 100 cpu... wonder what to do with em...
Well, what do you have in your medium slots?
My fitting idea looks like this:
6*Neutron Cannon II, 2*Med Plasma SB
100MN MWD, Webber, 2*Cap Recharger
Large Repairer II, 2*CPR, 4*Hardener
Not sure if that works for L4 mission dogfights, but I won't know until I tried it.
Originally by: LUKEC
In the end i will still use electrons after the patch.
And I will sit in my Deimos for the next 5 months.
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Dionysus Davinci
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Posted - 2005.04.05 16:13:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Dionysus Davinci on 05/04/2005 16:14:43
Originally by: Hyey
Edited by: Hyey on 05/04/2005 03:53:27
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Hyey
Btw, we cant EVEN fit 6, we already need a power grid module for just 6 of them. You guys are now able to fit 7 neutrons with no powergrid module. YAY...
On to the apparent autocannon spoof. First off blasters are infinately more powerful ok. Now we go onto the fact that we can still only fit 6 of them with no pg issues and you guys still get 7 neutrons with over 3000 pg left to spare... yes... its fair :/
Railguns didnt need a powergrid reduction as said above as much as a cap reduction/cpu reduction.
first off, if i hear one more person saying hybrids needed a cap reduction, im going to hit them. The cap reduction that was implimented doesn't do much.
second, blasters are not "infinately" more powerful than ACs. 800mm has same DOT as an ion blaster with lvl 5 BS.
third, blasters did need PG reduction, though i think the neutrons got dropped too low, 2500 would have been about right. As for rails, they were fine how they were.
Er, wait, I'm a hybrid user, leave it all how it is, and, uh, give us a cpu reduction too
BTW, projectiles don't use cap, you know that right?
And If I hear one more person saying that projectiles dont use cap therefore we shouldnt be able to fit 6 of our guns or other such BS im going to smack them as well.
KK so my 800mm has the same dot as something more comparable to the dual 650mm. Fine dude I have higher falloff I guess its not THAT much more powerful whatever I wont argue something thats not overly important.
The only reason I say cap reduction is simply because they take more cap than lasers to use which with the weaker gallente cap is plain stupid. So you dont want a cap reduction, and you want a CPU reduction. TAKE WHATEVER I DONT CARE.
The point was you can fit 7 of your most powerful guns PG wise while I can only fit 5 which honestly is just annoying
You also got the choice of explosion or emp ammo. Allowing you to choose emp for shield tankers and explosion for armor. While, I am stuck with the most common tanked damage types and going even more bias towards thermal. You also get better optimal and 1200 wrecking hits :/
Not to mention I have to get close in order to use the guns. They better hit hard once I take a beating getting into range.
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.04.05 17:22:00 -
[94]
The different damage types are almost meaningless to be honest... if you've ever used them you'd know.
If you are fighting an untanked enemy, it doesn't matter. EM sucks on armor but is great on shields, explosive is the opposite, kin/therm are ok on both.
If you are fighting a tanked enemy, everything is pretty much the same.
Honestly, megathrons fitting neutrons with such ease is total bull****.
If these changes go through, Artillery needs a drop in powergrid useage, and autocannons need a further damage boost. 800's can't even compare to an ION on a megathron...
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Bobbeh
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Posted - 2005.04.05 18:28:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Vicious Vic
Originally by: Bobbeh
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Hyey
Originally by: Novo DuPont
Btw, we cant EVEN fit 6, we already need a power grid module for just 6 of them. You guys are now able to fit 7 neutrons with no powergrid module. YAY...
On to the apparent autocannon spoof. First off blasters are infinately more powerful ok. Now we go onto the fact that we can still only fit 6 of them with no pg issues and you guys still get 7 neutrons with over 3000 pg left to spare... yes... its fair :/
Railguns didnt need a powergrid reduction as said above as much as a cap reduction/cpu reduction.
first off, if i hear one more person saying hybrids needed a cap reduction, im going to hit them. The cap reduction that was implimented doesn't do much.
second, blasters are not "infinately" more powerful than ACs. 800mm has same DOT as an ion blaster with lvl 5 BS.
third, blasters did need PG reduction, though i think the neutrons got dropped too low, 2500 would have been about right. As for rails, they were fine how they were.
Er, wait, I'm a hybrid user, leave it all how it is, and, uh, give us a cpu reduction too
BTW, projectiles don't use cap, you know that right?
No, with the following skills : lvl 5 bs, lvl 5 gun (proj/hyb), lvl 5 gunnery, lvl 4 surg, lvl 5 rapid firing.
A Ion blaster cannon on a megathron outdamages an 800mm on a tempest by over 25%. So you are wrong, by a huge amount infact.
It is called range
what do you mean its called range. He made a simple statement that 800mm has same DOT as Ion blaster cannon. He was wrong. We are not factoring anything that affects DOT because you could also say 800mm tracking sucks or 6 800's is a lot less dmging than 7 ions.
Mimiru > It'd be a tie, the monkies nerfed pooflinger wouldnt have enough tracking to hit the parrot orbiting him, but the parrot's beak is so small it couldnt break the monkey's fur tanking. |
Selim
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Posted - 2005.04.05 22:34:00 -
[96]
ffs, stop quoting the entire thread.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.04.05 22:44:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Selim
The different damage types are almost meaningless to be honest... if you've ever used them you'd know.
If you are fighting an untanked enemy, it doesn't matter. EM sucks on armor but is great on shields, explosive is the opposite, kin/therm are ok on both.
Maybe if you got a 33.3 excellent off a Heavy Pulse II on a Zealot with + 4 dmg mods on a claws armor using radio you would start to respect the different damage types you do.
Hitting a Muninn for 47 damage with MF + 6 damage mods isn't fun either
Damage types matter
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.04.06 02:35:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Selim on 06/04/2005 02:39:42
Just how many assault cruisers do you see flying around? Not many.
And this thread has -nothing- to do with lasers.  I'm just saying that people blow the damage types of projectiles out of proportion, there are VERY few circumstances where it really matters to any noticeable extent. If you want to complain about choosing damage types, anyway, pick on missiles. They're alot better in that regard. Its all focused into one type per missile, and it doesnt modify range.
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Hyey
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Posted - 2005.04.06 05:32:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Dionysus Davinci
Edited by: Dionysus Davinci on 05/04/2005 16:14:43
Originally by: Hyey
Edited by: Hyey on 05/04/2005 03:53:27
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Hyey
Btw, we cant EVEN fit 6, we already need a power grid module for just 6 of them. You guys are now able to fit 7 neutrons with no powergrid module. YAY...
On to the apparent autocannon spoof. First off blasters are infinately more powerful ok. Now we go onto the fact that we can still only fit 6 of them with no pg issues and you guys still get 7 neutrons with over 3000 pg left to spare... yes... its fair :/
Railguns didnt need a powergrid reduction as said above as much as a cap reduction/cpu reduction.
first off, if i hear one more person saying hybrids needed a cap reduction, im going to hit them. The cap reduction that was implimented doesn't do much.
second, blasters are not "infinately" more powerful than ACs. 800mm has same DOT as an ion blaster with lvl 5 BS.
third, blasters did need PG reduction, though i think the neutrons got dropped too low, 2500 would have been about right. As for rails, they were fine how they were.
Er, wait, I'm a hybrid user, leave it all how it is, and, uh, give us a cpu reduction too
BTW, projectiles don't use cap, you know that right?
And If I hear one more person saying that projectiles dont use cap therefore we shouldnt be able to fit 6 of our guns or other such BS im going to smack them as well.
KK so my 800mm has the same dot as something more comparable to the dual 650mm. Fine dude I have higher falloff I guess its not THAT much more powerful whatever I wont argue something thats not overly important.
The only reason I say cap reduction is simply because they take more cap than lasers to use which with the weaker gallente cap is plain stupid. So you dont want a cap reduction, and you want a CPU reduction. TAKE WHATEVER I DONT CARE.
The point was you can fit 7 of your most powerful guns PG wise while I can only fit 5 which honestly is just annoying
You also got the choice of explosion or emp ammo. Allowing you to choose emp for shield tankers and explosion for armor. While, I am stuck with the most common tanked damage types and going even more bias towards thermal. You also get better optimal and 1200 wrecking hits :/
Not to mention I have to get close in order to use the guns. They better hit hard once I take a beating getting into range.
Yes you deserve massive damage getting into range but that still doesnt warrant me not being able to fit 6 1400 1's on when you now can fit 6 neutron 2's + extra crap with no pg mods.
Minmatar arty is good for ALPHA strikes man. Trust me if im in range to use the ammo that grants me emp damage it doesnt take much for you to create enough transversal for me to miss 50% of the time, unless im feeling perky that day and move parallel to you all the time (and its extremely taxing on your mouse ) in which case ill only miss many 40% of the time. ill get my 1200 wreckings... only if im using my EMP ammo. I wont be getting 1.2k wreckings with carbonized lead, and I do still have a hidiously slow firing rate so wreckings are few and far between.
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Hyey
I just payed 15 dollars this month just to be able to respond on the forums... stupid cancellation error.
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RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2005.04.06 05:46:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Hyey
Trust me if im in range to use the ammo that grants me emp damage it doesnt take much for you to create enough transversal for me to miss 50% of the time
If youre firing at a blasterthron who's fighting you, he is both approaching you, causing low transverse, and he has 2k sig radius.
I've been testing blasters, and I happen to like the new changes there. Neutrons may have had thier grid excessively lowered though, since there is more then 3k spare grid after fitting a full rack of neutron Is. I think electrons and ions are about where they should be though.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Hyey
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Posted - 2005.04.06 06:04:00 -
[101]
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
Originally by: Hyey
Trust me if im in range to use the ammo that grants me emp damage it doesnt take much for you to create enough transversal for me to miss 50% of the time
If youre firing at a blasterthron who's fighting you, he is both approaching you, causing low transverse, and he has 2k sig radius.
I've been testing blasters, and I happen to like the new changes there. Neutrons may have had thier grid excessively lowered though, since there is more then 3k spare grid after fitting a full rack of neutron Is. I think electrons and ions are about where they should be though.
And he'll still get under my range at a point because I fire too slow to kill him off unless he starts at 60km. But point in case, the blasters needed a fitting reduction and I have no problem with it, its just that the neutrons are really ridiculously low when you compare them to the other races high powered weapons (bar of course launchers...) which you also seem to think so... guess there is no problem here
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Hyey
I just payed 15 dollars this month just to be able to respond on the forums... stupid cancellation error.
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4ZakeN
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Posted - 2005.04.06 06:55:00 -
[102]
Well think this will be great. Now i will be able 2 use the megathron agian. Calling it slightly cuting pg is rather kind words. Some of the large blasters have almost 25% less pg
The rails have less but that¦s understandble u should¦nt be able 2 both have good dmg and tanking as a sniper. Dont wanne another apoc 2 the game right?
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Idora Selynne
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Posted - 2005.04.06 09:29:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Dannyy
7 modal neuts and a heavy diminishing with the usual blasterthron crap on it still gets owned by a full skilled standard setup torp Raven when starting at 20km.
However, it melts a tanked apoc like there's no tomorrow.
We found the same to be true. Keep in mind, this was a pretty ubertanked apoc too (nos, 2x large IIs, 3 hardeners), however not tanked specifically for blasterthron.
However, an evil 3xbcs raven still murdered the blasterthron. The Raven was in turn murdered by the apoc.
Rocks, paper, scissors.
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.04.06 10:18:00 -
[104]
7x neutronsII = 378cpu... that leaves you with another 310 to spare... so neutrons are not an option really. (and ionsII neither)(dont forget you need MWD= 75 cpu, web = 21cpu, disruptor or scrambler = 24cpu..)...
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Dannyy
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Posted - 2005.04.06 10:58:00 -
[105]
Originally by: LUKEC
7x neutronsII = 378cpu... that leaves you with another 310 to spare... so neutrons are not an option really. (and ionsII neither)(dont forget you need MWD= 75 cpu, web = 21cpu, disruptor or scrambler = 24cpu..)...
Grid is not the gallente limiting fitting variable, cpu is.
So where once you were so limited by grid that you used an RCUII or PDU II to get enough grid for those blastters+mwd+whatever not, you now use a cpu enhancer and can fit 5 modal neuts, 2 modal ions, heavy nos (thats 8 large top class mods), mwd, injectors, web , scrambler, large acco, medII, 2x hardener and damage mods.
Tech 2 however would still present a grid AND a cpu issue on the injector and MWD fitted blasterboat. Downsgrading to passive recharge and a lighter tank helps that a bit however, but I havnet checked actual fittings yet.
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Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2005.04.06 11:25:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Dannyy
Originally by: LUKEC
7x neutronsII = 378cpu... that leaves you with another 310 to spare... so neutrons are not an option really. (and ionsII neither)(dont forget you need MWD= 75 cpu, web = 21cpu, disruptor or scrambler = 24cpu..)...
Grid is not the gallente limiting fitting variable, cpu is.
Well that is mostly true for the Megathron.
Cruisers suffer from PG and are mostly fine on cpu.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2005.04.06 20:18:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Idora Selynne
However, an evil 3xbcs raven still murdered the blasterthron. The Raven was in turn murdered by the apoc.
Rocks, paper, scissors.
I was testing blasterthrons on SiSi yesterday, and starting under 25k I was consistantly killing ravens, even gank-ravens. I even managed to take on two ravens simultainiously and destroy one of them - the extra grid provided by the lowering of blaster grid means that I can actually tank quite well now.
CPU is definately the more limiting factor now, compared to grid.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Kaeten
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Posted - 2005.04.06 20:20:00 -
[108]
fit a cpu2
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Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante
Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante
Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante |
RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2005.04.06 20:21:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Kaeten
fit a cpu2
I'd rather fit a damage control.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.04.06 21:03:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Selim on 06/04/2005 21:05:30
Having fought Rollin's megathron, I can tell you that it is crazy. I was in a typhoon, though... but still, that thing ate me up even though I explicitly tanked therm and kinetic.
If blasters and railguns get this sort of boost, artillery and autocannons need it too. Artillery needs to be much, much easier to fit, as well as a 7th turret on the tempest, and autocannons need a further damage boost.
800mms should equal the damage of neutron blasters when they are put on a tempest. Especially as a megathron can fit 7 of them, a tempest can only fit 6.
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