And the playerbase is now powerless to do anything about it

And the playerbase is now powerless to do anything about it

And the playerbase is now powerless to do anything about it

Yep, awesome sandbox ey?

Why?

Did CCP remove weapons from the game since last I logged in?

Or do you mean,"The player base is now scared to do anything about it"? That would be more in line with the general state of 'elite PVP' that I've come to love in this game.

Mr Epeen

BRB, gotta send a few Smartbombing BS's to an ICE field...

Why would we have to do anything about it? That security team thing they have for bots has an awesome algorithm for detecting these things....right???

Now, how do they detect prison inmate and sweat shop slaves being used for RMT rings?

More like its now far too expensive.

Please do not confue multiboxing with botting. There is no evidence of botting in this screenshot.

Yup...scared.

So you can do it. You are just scared you might have to pay for your fun. Nothing fun is free, bucko.

Got it.

Mr Epeen

Wouldn't limiting ice belts just make it more lucrative for botters to ice mine and make it harder for regular players to cash in?
Just imagine ice belts being depleted a few hours after DT, not a good scenario. In my opinion making ice near-worthless is the best way to counter ice-botters, but thats me.

So what costs do ice miners accept?

Chance of Ganking? Nope. (Or rather, insignificant.)
Requirement to be at the Computer? Nope.
Fixed cost to run? Nope.
Variable output? Nope.
Effort? Nope. (A dozen mouse clicks per hour is not effort.)

So, what do the ice miners have to pay for their fun?

So what costs do ice miners accept?

Chance of Ganking? Nope. (Or rather, insignificant.)
Requirement to be at the Computer? Nope.
Fixed cost to run? Nope.
Variable output? Nope.
Effort? Nope. (A dozen mouse clicks per hour is not effort.)

So, what do the ice miners have to pay for their fun?

Chance of Ganking? Extremely high
Requirement to be at the Computer? Constant vigilance .
Fixed cost to run? High start up, skill wise and ship.
Variable output? Perfected technology.
Effort? Its alot of effort for me, clicking a mouse is tough when you have no hands or feet.

you just implied ice mining was fun. that's your first mistake.

Why would people play a game to do something they didn't enjoy?

Wouldn't limiting ice belts just make it more lucrative for botters to ice mine and make it harder for regular players to cash in?
Just imagine ice belts being depleted a few hours after DT, not a good scenario. In my opinion making ice near-worthless is the best way to counter ice-botters, but thats me.

....in order to prevent the "rocks are dead two hours after DT syndrome" that afflicts most of hisec.

You can have depleting ice belts and put them in grav sites in order to prevent the "rocks are dead two hours after DT syndrome" that afflicts most of hisec-áa select few systems very close to trade hubs.

I didn't say they were bots. I said they were slaves used in RMT rings to avoid bot detection OR bots.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/25/china-prisoners-internet-gaming-scam

Why would people play a game to do something they didn't enjoy?

Why are people concerned about people paying to play a game they don't enjoy?

What of it?

I care not for the "correctness" of either party tbh but these arguments ON BEHALF of other people are getting kind of tedious.

A few smartbomb battleships + giant blob of miners = time and ISK well spent?

you miss the key benefit of mining. the fact you can do it, afk, low risk, etc, is for those players who use it to fund fun times.
want to read a book or watch a film? why not earn isk while you do it so when you're done having your out of eve fun, you can use the isk to have some in eve fun.

that's why i mine, i can tab out and browse forums, read books, watch tv, etc while mining.

all games have a portion of it that isn't fun, but you have to do it. in eve, generally speaking, making isk is dull but you gotta do it to fund more interesting ventures. don't get me wrong, i don't think mining is bad enough to open a vein for, but it's hardly the most stimulating activity.

= Error. Cannot activate Smartbomb in the presence of GSC.

I don't care whether ice miners enjoy what they do. My point is that you cannot claim that the Ice Miner's lack of risk is balanced by their supposed lack of enjoyment.

This is a Multiplayer sandbox. You are free to do whatever you want to do. So is everyone else. Including "Screwing with what you want to do." Miners don't seem to understand the second part.

Nobody's saying mining should be eliminated, but miners are saying that people who mess with them (first it was canflippers, then it was suicide gankers, now it's bumpers) should have their options eliminated.

and so they have to respawn.. look at this lolz
http://i.imgur.com/Zz9Eh.jpg

IB4 tears.

I gather you don't understand what I'm saying.

Yes. Fact. Miners are complaining, whining, ad infinitum.

Fact (as evidenced within) - NON-miners are complaining and whining about miners complaining, whining, ad infinitum.

Nobody is taking a step back and looking at first, the irony, secondly the hyprocrisy and then finally, at the stupidity of it all.

What are we ACTUALLY hoping to achieve in all this?
Is there an actual goal?

Perhaps everyone needs to start addressing this from a

THIS IS WHAT WE/I/US WANT DONE - put it up for discussion and debate the MERITS insofar as how to relates to ALL players in this, a single shard cold, dark and harsh universe.

And be cognizant of OTHER players in discussing the merits. Anything else is just accelerating climate change.

I gather you don't understand what I'm saying.

Yes. Fact. Miners are complaining, whining, ad infinitum.

Fact (as evidenced within) - NON-miners are complaining and whining about miners complaining, whining, ad infinitum.

Nobody is taking a step back and looking at first, the irony, secondly the hyprocrisy and then finally, at the stupidity of it all.

What are we ACTUALLY hoping to achieve in all this?
Is there an actual goal?

Perhaps everyone needs to start addressing this from a

THIS IS WHAT WE/I/US WANT DONE - put it up for discussion and debate the MERITS insofar as how to relates to ALL players in this, a single shard cold, dark and harsh universe.

And be cognizant of OTHER players in discussing the merits. Anything else is just accelerating climate change.

What's your position? Your post seems to indicate that it is just "people disagreeing is bad."

To TL:DR you and Betoli

1) Move ice to lowsec
2) (re)balance exhumers
3) remove GSC shields (which is strange when miners are told to "defend" themselves)

What's the objective? Higher ice prices? Is that good for Eve as a whole? It only affects jumpers and POS owners - which by and large is mostly 0.0.

Keep in mind that when exhumers were (more) easily ganked, the bottom line on ice was not much removed from what it is now. Both interdictions were more about manipulating profit temporaily imho.


It is when it serves no purpose. And my position is one of trying to fathom the angst - I think we're making mountains out of molehills and taking our eye off the ball.

You have to ask why all this kerfuffle without a reason to do so. I'm befuddled on it.

and so they have to respawn.. look at this lolz
http://i.imgur.com/Zz9Eh.jpg

IB4 tears.

I'm gobsmacked, NickyYo has finally made a post that doesn't make my braincells wish they were extinct

Infinite resources are bad, even the moon goo farmers agree that they are bad.

Implement depletion on ice, then ask the members of OTEC how to fix tech.

Infinite resources are fine (Good, even. CCP tried a closed economy before, it failed badly). Infinite, Static, Risk-Free resources that can't be significantly disrupted (the latest cry is about bumping, which costs yield equal to how long it takes for you to wander back to your computer) are the problem.

and so they have to respawn.. look at this lolz
http://i.imgur.com/Zz9Eh.jpg

IB4 tears.

= Error. Cannot activate Smartbomb in the presence of GSC.

Here's a thought I've been having

Leave ice mining where it is, but make "mid-sec" space out of 0.5

> No CONCORD, but local easier-to-defeat police forces will respond to criminal activity

> No response to criminal presence, any low-security player can be present and will only be responded to if they engage in criminal activity

I'm sure we can mash out some other ideas for a mid-sec style of space, but those are just some basic thoughts I've had. Making it easier to engage in criminal activities in hi-sec space, however, defeats the purpose of having hi-sec space, and while many of you want to think that you should be able to do whatever you want without consequence, I think this belittles the entitlement that all players have to enjoy the game without having to do so at the expense of another player's enjoyment.

I think a mid-sec compromise idea would be worth compromising for.

Also, the issue is that Ice mining is an income source that cannot be effectively disrupted.

As always Ruby you make a compelling argument, I was unaware that CCP had tried a closed economy in the past and failed, my bad

I completely agree that resources which are immune to disruption are a problem, especially infinite ones that are in relatively safe space, which encourages afk harvesting.

I agree that nothing should be immune to disruption. And nothing is.

Ice mining is, however, now immune to risk averse gankers popping Exhumers at next to no cost to themselves.

And I'm fine with that. It keeps the forum lively, don't you think?

Mr Epeen

and so they have to respawn.. look at this lolz
http://i.imgur.com/Zz9Eh.jpg

IB4 tears.

So what costs do ice miners accept?

Chance of Ganking? Nope. (Or rather, insignificant.)
Requirement to be at the Computer? Nope.
Fixed cost to run? Nope.
Variable output? Nope.
Effort? Nope. (A dozen mouse clicks per hour is not effort.)

So, what do the ice miners have to pay for their fun?

But its not hot in space.

and so they have to respawn.. look at this lolz
http://i.imgur.com/Zz9Eh.jpg

IB4 tears.

There you go. Much better.

My favourite haunts in Genesis have been stripped clean very quickly lately. I've even been mining in hisec islands, only to find ravenous fleets of hulks stripping the belts every other week.

Go out and have a look these days, Tippia and Touval. The recent mining nerf means that there are more people out there looking for ore, so they're spreading further afield to get their stocks.

i'm a couple of jumps out from jita and the belts are fairly quiet. pick a better system.

depends.

Thread moved from GD to F&I - ISD Type40.

I agree that nothing should be immune to disruption. And nothing is.

Ice mining is, however, now immune to risk averse gankers popping Exhumers at next to no cost to themselves.

And I'm fine with that. It keeps the forum lively, don't you think?

Mr Epeen

The implication of your post was that the risk-and-effort-free profit was balanced by the lack of it being fun.

Risk and Effort free profit can't be balanced by dullness. Effort free profit is fine, so long as it's risky. Risk free profit is fine, as long as it's high effort (mining in a noobship is risk free, but effort intensive). Why should miners have both?