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Apology to Keiretsu

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Velios	Posted - 2005.04.04 13:13:00 - [1] M.Corp wish to apologise for the situation that currently exists between ourselves and Keiretsu alliance. Once proud members of this alliance since it's inception, we departed on good terms and have attempted to assist in the defence of the region whenever possible since that time. We have however become uneasy with the MDP (Mutual Defence Pact) that was agreed between Keiretsu and Foundation since our departure. Of particular note was the condition in the MDP that set traditional ex-CA corporations as KOS, A prime example of this being Black Omega Security who we have always maintained excellent working relations with as a corporation. Factors such as this, and the continued suspicion, and animosity thrown our way by many leading members of the Foundation, despite our peaceful intentions since departure from Keiretsu has led us down the path we now follow. M.Corp will assist coalition corporations in the destabilisation of Foundation, and even though we have many friends in Keiretsu that we respect, we will have to defend ourselves if attacked and standings will be altered accordingly.
Artharas	Posted - 2005.04.04 13:18:00 - [2] Without knowing really what happend between M.Corp and Foundation/Keiritsu, you might want to rename the topic to "[Press Release]M.Corp" because otherwise it just sounds like you are giving Keiritsu the finger(unless ofcourse that is your intention) ------------------------- These are my views and don't necessarily represent my corp nor my alliance.
Archonon	Posted - 2005.04.04 14:17:00 - [3] Originally by: Velios ... Of particular note was the condition in the MDP that set traditional ex-CA corporations as KOS, A prime example of this being Black Omega Security who we have always maintained excellent working relations with as a corporation... same here, they fired on us ---> KOS now
duhh	Posted - 2005.04.04 14:28:00 - [4] moin
Grimpak	Posted - 2005.04.04 14:42:00 - [5] what can I say except =\| ------------------- Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
Treebeard dk	Posted - 2005.04.04 14:58:00 - [6] I understand my friend ! The Black Widows
Jacuro	Posted - 2005.04.04 15:48:00 - [7] If you think this is all needed, then do as you please. M. Corp can attack who they want BUT the GW is Keiretsu / foundation space, and we will defend that space. I¦m also getting sick of the "friends" in the keiretsu story, if you want to attack a alliance which has a MDP with the keiretsu you have no respect for the keiretsu. This also counts for SHINRA, i also have "friends" in SHINRA, but if they attack in GW thats asking for trouble we need to defend ourselfs, None of these corps have actually discussed anyhting with the Keiretsu, things where said, and stated and thats it. Attack who you want to attack, but keep in mind that the Friends in the keiretsu will be forced to defend their space, many of you are EX k members and know the situation. -:= Proud member of the KEIRETSU =:-
Tehel Necrona	Posted - 2005.04.04 15:56:00 - [8] Well said Velios. seems M. corp is smart enuff not to shoot itself in the foot, unlike others.
EagleFour	Posted - 2005.04.04 16:13:00 - [9] JOBS Corporation is abstaining from this fight, as too many friendlies exist on all sides. We were disappointed at having to shoot black omega and many of the other people we had called friends in the past. we were delighted to fight beside foundation as well. Many of whose members i have since become friends. Some of the people attacking us I call friends. At this point my corporation has withdrawn from keiretsu and headed to empire. We cannot be asked to participate in this situation as there is simply no good outcome. M.Corp and the old Coretech guys are well respected by me long before i entered the MDP with foundation, as the honorable thing to do we will simply abstain from this fighting and pursue other ventures in eve. It is sad that vendettas and attitudes from all sides can effect the gameplay of so many. Anyways best of luck for everyone maybe one day we will fight side by side again. JOBS - Got Moin?
Velios	Posted - 2005.04.04 16:16:00 - [10] Originally by: Jacuro Attack who you want to attack, but keep in mind that the Friends in the keiretsu will be forced to defend their space, many of you are EX k members and know the situation. We would expect nothing less from the best pilots in Keiretsu like yourself Jacuro. Everyone would be shocked if no Keiretsu pilots came to the aid of their new Foundation friends, we are prepared for this eventuality, and thought long and hard about the consciences. Thats the reason we wrote today, just to say that Keiretsu is not a target to us... unless we are fired upon. Basically, we wont seek you Jacuro, but you may decide to come looking for us.

Marnarok	Posted - 2005.04.04 16:23:00 - [11] Originally by: Jacuro If you think this is all needed, then do as you please. M. Corp can attack who they want BUT the GW is Keiretsu / foundation space, and we will defend that space. I¦m also getting sick of the "friends" in the keiretsu story, if you want to attack a alliance which has a MDP with the keiretsu you have no respect for the keiretsu. This also counts for SHINRA, i also have "friends" in SHINRA, but if they attack in GW thats asking for trouble we need to defend ourselfs, None of these corps have actually discussed anyhting with the Keiretsu, things where said, and stated and thats it. Attack who you want to attack, but keep in mind that the Friends in the keiretsu will be forced to defend their space, many of you are EX k members and know the situation. Jacuro, litle boy, come to my office now.
Treebeard dk	Posted - 2005.04.04 16:36:00 - [12] Just for the record, like JOBS, The Black Widows are also leaving GW, due to the reason Eaglefour mentioned above, it has been comming for days now and we have been prepared to leave if it came to that. I personally have been sorry that we had to shoot at BOS, but at the time, we had no choice, that will change as of now. The Black Widows
Domalais	Posted - 2005.04.04 17:29:00 - [13] Originally by: Tehel Necrona Well said Velios. seems M. corp is smart enuff not to shoot itself in the foot, unlike others. Translation: Thank you, M. Corp, for bending over for us posthaste. It's a shame there aren't more sniveling cowards in GW.
Khaerie	Posted - 2005.04.04 17:53:00 - [14] Originally by: Domalais Originally by: Tehel Necrona Well said Velios. seems M. corp is smart enuff not to shoot itself in the foot, unlike others. Translation: Thank you, M. Corp, for bending over for us posthaste. It's a shame there aren't more sniveling cowards in GW. Since when did respecting both sets of friends become an act of cowardice? It takes a lot of courage to not only pull yourself out of a squabble when BOTH friends want you to choose their side but to also tell them both up front. My respects to JOBS, thank you for taking the time to listen to me. I wish it could have worked otherwise but support your honesty in your decision and the public way you have announced it. Director of Communications 2nd in Command of Foreign Affairs
Drilla	Posted - 2005.04.04 18:01:00 - [15] Velios is a true leader and one of the few people I look up to in EVE. M. Corp did what they needed to as a corp and that is never cowardly or disrespectful. They have always honored the agenda for GW for a peaceful but strong pressence there. I take great honor in flying with the likes of Velios, Obiwand and all the other great guys in M. Corp. - * pure moinage *
Br0dY	Posted - 2005.04.04 18:09:00 - [16] Originally by: Jacuro M. Corp can attack who they want BUT the GW is Keiretsu / foundation space, and we will defend that space. Yeah ur defending it really well from your safe spots, I must say... It's surprising how u ppl are actually used to sitting in safespots and talking trash from there... maybe u should put your guns where your mouth is? I think that would help u do a better job at "defending" GW. ------------------------------------------------ Better to ask something stupid, then to do something stupid
Domalais	Posted - 2005.04.04 18:20:00 - [17] Edited by: Domalais on 04/04/2005 18:22:03 Originally by: Khaerie Since when did respecting both sets of friends become an act of cowardice? It takes a lot of courage to not only pull yourself out of a squabble when BOTH friends want you to choose their side but to also tell them both up front. Attacking "friends" with no warning so that they still have you set as blue is cowardice. Using alliance channels and teamspeaks that you are still in (because you attacked without preamble) to relay fleet movements and allow you to gank more of your "friends" is cowardice. Joining with attacking fleets to kill both Foundation and Keiretsu (your "friends) is cowardice. I salute M. Corp for posting this on the forum the day after they began attacks. A true sign of honor.
Blitz0r	Posted - 2005.04.04 18:22:00 - [18] I respect your apology Velios and i understand your view on this. I have nothing but respect for the whole of m.corp (there's actually not one guy in m.corp that i dont like). My views are my own and might not reflect Keiretsu's view on this matter.
Mac Knife	Posted - 2005.04.04 21:17:00 - [19] Originally by: Domalais Edited by: Domalais on 04/04/2005 18:22:03 Originally by: Khaerie Since when did respecting both sets of friends become an act of cowardice? It takes a lot of courage to not only pull yourself out of a squabble when BOTH friends want you to choose their side but to also tell them both up front. Attacking "friends" with no warning so that they still have you set as blue is cowardice. Using alliance channels and teamspeaks that you are still in (because you attacked without preamble) to relay fleet movements and allow you to gank more of your "friends" is cowardice. Joining with attacking fleets to kill both Foundation and Keiretsu (your "friends) is cowardice. I salute M. Corp for posting this on the forum the day after they began attacks. A true sign of honor. OMG this coming from a dvn member has to be the biggest amount of hypocritical bull**** ever. Lets see, you shot at tps even tho we were blue to each other so did f-e. Tbh mate i dont think u have a right to talk about cowardice since you are one yourself!
Domalais	Posted - 2005.04.04 21:42:00 - [20] Originally by: Mac Knife OMG this coming from a dvn member has to be the biggest amount of hypocritical bull**** ever. Lets see, you shot at tps even tho we were blue to each other so did f-e. Tbh mate i dont think u have a right to talk about cowardice since you are one yourself! Deviance announced that we would remain neutral in the fight between F-E and TPS. TPS responded by saying we couldn't stay neutral. We then informed TPS 24 hours in advance of any hostilies that we would be siding with F-E. This was after leaving TPS's channels and teamspeak. Although we might have fought those we were friends with, we did not employ any coward's tactics in doing so. Which is as it should be. I remember a day when giving 24 hours notice was an accepted practice. Wonder when and why that changed.

TIvian	Posted - 2005.04.04 22:19:00 - [21] M.Corp is by far one of the most honorable corporations this game has EVER seen. They say what they mean and they mean what they say. they always do things the right way. Black Omega Security stands by M.Corp the only decent corp out of Keiratsu and Keiratsu's loss (\_/) (O.o) (> <) Teh Uber Asheron's Call Bunny Booty WTFPWNZ you!!
lansha	Posted - 2005.04.04 22:28:00 - [22] Edited by: lansha on 04/04/2005 22:36:59 Originally by: Domalais Translation: Thank you, M. Corp, for bending over for us posthaste. It's a shame there aren't more sniveling cowards in GW. well put :) Originally by: Velios We have however become uneasy with the MDP (Mutual Defence Pact) that was agreed between Keiretsu and Foundation since our departure. Of particular note was the condition in the MDP that set traditional ex-CA corporations as KOS, A prime example of this being Black Omega Security who we have always maintained excellent working relations with as a corporation. when TK and foundation agreed the MDP it was well know BOS had open wars with foundation members, and knowing full well that if the war was not retracted BOS would be hostile to all parties. so your 'excellent working relations' can not have been that good or they would have retracted the wars to save friends within TK from shooting them an enemy of an enemy is a friend
Quaisar	Posted - 2005.04.05 02:18:00 - [23] We have however become uneasy with the MDP (Mutual Defence Pact) that was agreed between Keiretsu and Foundation since our departure. Of particular note was the condition in the MDP that set traditional ex-CA corporations as KOS, A prime example of this being Black Omega Security who we have always maintained excellent working relations with as a corporation. When Foundation and Keiretsu had the cease fire, while working on the MDP, BOS came in and were attacking Foundation. I believe K was trying to negotiate with BOS about the GW and founation during this time. At this point, BAMA had members flying with the foundation crew, helping to defend the GW space. The members defended the foundation guy and subsequently the BOS character lost his ship. BOS then was demanding ship replacements for a friendly fire incident. Which was fine and dandy - unfortunately, BOS then wanted 10 million isk on top of the ship replacement (and this demand was put forth over 24 hours later). That is plain extortion. This is when talks with K and BOS fell apart and basically we stopped trying to help bridge the gap between BOS and foundation. Extortion is not welcome amongt K and that is why BOS was added to the KOS list early on. As for red alliance and such - they were only added b/c there was rumors of this big event occuring where it woudl be a coming together of two sides -- EVOL, FOE and RED against SE, Xetic and ATUK -- as SE, Xetic and Atuk are our closest neighbours, the leaders felt it would be better to align ourselves with them. This didn't sit well with everyone but it logistically made sense. HOwever, this event never occured and therefor, standings should have been readjusted but the K and F diplomats never approached that (AFAIK). It is easy to judge from the outside when u do not have all the facts. Why doesn't M.corp just admit that they are po'd b/c they had their mining rights revoked (which, I might add, was in process of being reinstated b/c there was an element of human error in where M.corp was placed on the MDP (travel pass only etc). I am truly disappointed in how things have played out. Velios came into a TS meeting with Drilla with K and was telling us he was neutral. Not even 5 hours later, M.corp is firing on foundation and any K pilots that are defending F. M.corp states they thought LONG and hard about their stance -- 5 hours is not that long to me. If M.corp was leaning in this direction the past few days and not just the 5 hours, it would have been respectable of m.corp to withdraw from the joint K/F and the K channels in game. However, this was not done and a lot of pilots feel that you stabbed them in the back. We do not know what information you have gleaned and how you will use it. A lot of people have respect for M.corp and how they have played their game in the past. In my view, despite having a few good friends in m.corp that I've known for a year (basically since I was a noob!), M.corp has dropped a notch. They still have my respect - just not as much. My corporation is now in a dilema - as are most of K pilots. Do we honor the MDP and stay and fight with foundation and fight for our home, or do we leave b/c we do not want to fight friends of old. It is unknown yet what we will do. These are my views only and do not represent anyone from my corporation or K. This is how I have seen things play out and if I have my facts wrong, then I apologize. Q.
Quaisar	Posted - 2005.04.05 02:44:00 - [24] P.S. The very fact that M.corp feels they have to issue an apology about how things have played out indicates they are not too proud of what they have done or how they have done it. It is really unfortunate that a lot of ppl get dragged into politics. Some ppl come here to play the game and things spiral and get out of their hands and next thing you know, political fallout is occuring. To some, politics just isn't much fun. :/
Grimpak	Posted - 2005.04.05 11:58:00 - [25] indeed politics ------------------- Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
shutupandshave	Posted - 2005.04.05 12:26:00 - [26] Quais, leave the politics to the people that enjoy these kinds of arguments. :)
Velios	Posted - 2005.04.05 13:04:00 - [27] Well Quaisar, you are perfectly right when you say politics is not much fun, thats a major reason why M.Corp left the Keiretsu because despite initial attempts to keep things simple, as new member corps joined (some of which did not witness the collapse of CA through all the political ego jostling throughout the past year) The Keiretsu was becoming a political nightmare which demanded more attention to *****footing about, than to actually playing the game. To the last day we were members of Keiretsu, we were fighting Foundation and it was never stated once by us that Foundation were our allies. We did however re-enter GW on neutral terms, fully respecting K's MDP while we assisted in the defence of the region against pirates. M.Corp have issued an apology not because we feel any guilt, but because we regret that certain people (like yourself) who came in late to the GW 0.0 scene are being forced to choose sides when you have had nothing to do with what went on before. 0.0 Life is a very political place though Quaisar, and no corporation has the right to live there without A: defending their interests and B: Accepting that the fate of the area is often determined by past events between corporations. We have stated quite clearly that we are attacking Foundation corps, whom we never considered to be allies but we respect the right of corporations from Keiretsu that perhaps are not aware fully of what got us to where we are today to come to the aid of their new friends. Keiretsu are by no means on our hit list though, in fact I am spending a great deal of time helping any Keiretsu members that approach me to get safe passage through GW in these dangerous times if I can. As for me saying "M.Corp are neutral" in teamspeak, well that is true Quaisar. That teamspeak meeting was called for the ears of Keiretsu only and when I say M.Corp is staying neutral, I mean of course to Keiretsu - our natural allies in the region. I'm guessing that in the end all corporations will choose a side depending on what is best for their corp. And thats all M.Corp have done here today, stay loyal to the same feelings we had when Keiretsu was formed. We also needed to fight because we felt we were doing ourselves a disservice by staying quiet for so long while Foundation began to dominate the policies of Keiretsu... and this leads me on to my final point... Why did Keiretsu make so many concessions to Foundation? It's true that Foundation were having the upper hand in the fights towards the end, yet seemingly to retain access to all the "good stuff" in GW Keiretsu bent over and took a big stiff one. If isk is the driving factor here then I regret to inform you that isk is FAR easier to earn doing level 4 missions these days.... just imagine, you could earn billions, get named mods and ships and get nice sec status gains with no ganks, no politics, and no need to compromise yourselves then the doo doo hits the fan. M.Corps motives for staying in GW were never motivated by arkonor or other riches, we are only in 0.0 because its a challenging environment for PvP. Mining rights? we couldn't give a stuff about actually not having them, but to be denied full access by people that think 0.0 should be a carebear (hate that word but it is applicable) zone, a fluffy utopia where everyone will be friends and have the right to get rich and do little to earn their place there was always one of M.Corps main issues with (most) of Foundation... Can you guys that are in Keiretsu at the beginning remember this? We used to talk about it every day, somewhere along the road that ideal was forgotten.
Ilmonstre	Posted - 2005.04.05 18:27:00 - [28] Well Velios I would have to agree with you. I find that you have a very good point. I myself left a Corporation which is a part of the Keiretsu because of the coming MDP at that time. and for what i have heard after that the people who fly under the flag of Foundation have not really changed and they have never done the things they said they were. one of those things was that they wanted it to be open space, while they themselves were shooting neutrals and thatÆs not really trying to get a open space system. just my thoughts on this subject
Edoo	Posted - 2005.04.05 20:04:00 - [29] Originally by: Domalais Originally by: Tehel Necrona Well said Velios. seems M. corp is smart enuff not to shoot itself in the foot, unlike others. Translation: Thank you, M. Corp, for bending over for us posthaste. It's a shame there aren't more sniveling cowards in GW. ffs lol. The original post is nicely done, and i agree with what he is saying, so stop **** stirring.
Logan Williams	Posted - 2005.04.05 21:21:00 - [30] "Dear Keiretsu, I apologize for playing politics to try to drive a wedge between you and the Foundation. I now sit here and play the "Poor Me" game trying my best to twist M.Corp's way into your sympathys. Meanwhile, our friends, Black Omega Securities, have tried to help set the stage. Unfortunately, Armoured Assassins came down and ruined an otherwise great plan. After some discussion, Drilla agreed to threaten Keiretsu pilots with "Leave or die" and you have chosen death, A completely honorable gesture that I still cannot fathom, as it's not in my nature. In finishing, I want to apologize for my plan turning to crap and you guys doing the right thing. Signed, Velios" *Translated by an Amarr sympathiser somewhere in Molden Heath***



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