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Ganked for acting in self defense

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Mrmuttley	Posted - 2005.04.06 17:01:00 - [1] Lets start with the disclaimer this is not a rant or a whine and I have no complaint with the pilots who ganked my raven ( but I hope I can return the favour some time ) Im sat out in 0.0 at a gate watching local cos we have hostiles in the system when one of those hostiles warps to the gate and engages my ship. Naturally I return fire and the hostile warps out at which point his freinds warp in scramble and kill me. Lets leave the discussion about WTF were you doing at a gate solo in a raven and why didn't you warp to a safe for another day. Im new to PvP and I stuffed up simple as that. The bit that bothers me is my plan in case it all went horribly wrong was to jump thruogh the gate. I did not realise that returning fire counted as an act of aggression. When the assault frigate engaged me and did damage before I shot back ( think raven lock time on any frigate ) surely this counts as self defense not as an act of aggression. To add insult to injury the same agression time applies to my pod as well and I was soon waking up it my clone station. What do people think about this?? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hmmm I need a Sig
Hastrabull	Posted - 2005.04.06 17:05:00 - [2] I think its Standard tactic to catch noobs like you :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Dionysus Davinci	Posted - 2005.04.06 17:08:00 - [3] Write it off as a lesson learned. We all have had them.
jonus Rath	Posted - 2005.04.06 17:09:00 - [4] i fell for you man, this has happened to me also, just not the dieing part. i think if the other person shoots first they there should be no penolity to you.
Slarty Bardfast	Posted - 2005.04.06 17:10:00 - [5] Standard tactics, considering you were in a Raven you should have simply aligned up to a celestial object, blown the **** out of the Assault Frigate with overpowered missiles, and just warped out the moment his buddies turned up, since you were already aligned and at speed.
Kordesh	Posted - 2005.04.06 17:14:00 - [6] This, like all of lifes problems, can be solved by bending. .....don't ask ME what it means. ------------------------------------------- "What's it like being a turtle?" "It's a lot like being a walking house that eats lettuce." (Hurray temp sig!)
Mrmuttley	Posted - 2005.04.06 17:16:00 - [7] Originally by: Slarty Bardfast Standard tactics, considering you were in a Raven you should have simply aligned up to a celestial object, blown the **** out of the Assault Frigate with overpowered missiles, and just warped out the moment his buddies turned up, since you were already aligned and at speed. I agree and thats exactly what ill do in future like the other posters say lesson learned and all that I can afford the loss isk wise and i dont have implants so its not a major issue. What I was looking for is do people think that returning fire should count as an act of agression?? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hmmm I need a Sig
Wrangler	Posted - 2005.04.06 17:34:00 - [8] Just proves that hillbillies shouldn't fly.. [Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators]
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2005.04.06 17:36:00 - [9] It's a common tactic when trying to engage a solo battleship close to a gate - warp in a frigate to try and make it initiate aggression. Once that first aggression is made, frigate warps out while his friends warp in for le gank. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Dabljuh	Posted - 2005.04.06 17:40:00 - [10] In 0.0, there should not be something like 'acts of agression'. Take note, CCP
Marcus Aurelius	Posted - 2005.04.06 17:41:00 - [11] Edited by: Marcus Aurelius on 06/04/2005 17:42:51 No, returning fire should count as agression as well, or neither should. Not because that makes sense in terms of logic, but in terms of combat balance. You could of course also have simply jumped through, align and get to speed, see if the AF follows and if, destroy and warp before the gate goes nuts.
Dionysus Davinci	Posted - 2005.04.06 17:45:00 - [12] Originally by: Mrmuttley What I was looking for is do people think that returning fire should count as an act of agression?? Yes, you returned fire when you could have just jumped through to escape.
Face Lifter	Posted - 2005.04.06 17:48:00 - [13] I think at least half the people who try PvP discover this feature the hard way. I don't think it's a bad feature, but it should be much better advertized.
HostageTaker	Posted - 2005.04.06 17:48:00 - [14] Originally by: Mrmuttley When the assault frigate engaged me and did damage before I shot back ( think raven lock time on any frigate ) surely this counts as self defense not as an act of aggression. Yeah I'm pretty sure you were just giving that AF a slap on the wrist... LMAO!
Sir Kad	Posted - 2005.04.06 18:07:00 - [15] Fortunately, I learned this lesson in a frig. IMO aggression timers don't belong in 0.0
Mon Palae	Posted - 2005.04.06 18:18:00 - [16] Originally by: Sir Kad Fortunately, I learned this lesson in a frig. IMO aggression timers don't belong in 0.0 Nah...you still need them even if they are annoying. The alternative would be people camping on top of a gate and as soon as anything shows they do not like they just jump out of the system. Making them align for warp and warp out and being able to chase them around the system gives some chance of catching people. With no gate aggression timer it'd become much harder to catch anyone.
EL TITAN	Posted - 2005.04.06 18:19:00 - [17] biggest tip for you: You learn to PVP in a frigate, NOT IN A BATTLESHIP. hope that helps ;o _________________________________________________ <3 hi
SinBin	Posted - 2005.04.06 18:29:00 - [18] The guys got a good point, we use this all the time, infact lost a maller to a failed attemp just last night. As the poster claims he didnt agress anyone he defended himself & should be allowd to jump. I have lost an uninshured mega for this lesson & my own insta jump was also to blame for me not warping out hehe now that justice for ya anti bm types. Im tempted to poor into ccp abuse cos iv lost my first pod in a long time to the sensors subspace bull but lets not side track this guys very valid post. 1 more thing mr & be fair, if he didnt agress & you got a lock would you then have fired ? _______________________________________ Ill Shutup when CCP remove bookmarks Maybe end the election round will do it ? & could save hundred of Users & Mods pain.
Mrmuttley	Posted - 2005.04.06 18:57:00 - [19] Originally by: SinBin 1 more thing mr & be fair, if he didnt agress & you got a lock would you then have fired ? Now that is a good question. TBH the answer yesterday is yes I would have. Raven is afterall a warship aint it Today no i wouldnt cos i know what the trick is now. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hmmm I need a Sig
Malken	Posted - 2005.04.06 19:13:00 - [20] nubs in battleships learning pvp in battleships. i hope your raven wasnt insured either as it was your mining ship. Originally by: Graelyn "We're at war with you, and you FIRED on us! I am so telling CONCORD!" Quote: [18:46:36] Weebear > WTS Electric Golf Cart, 1 careful owner. Phone Rome 555 6567
Cummilla	Posted - 2005.04.06 19:15:00 - [21] This is more evidence that I'm NEVER in the right place at the right time to take advantage of something like this. It's always more like, when it involves me, one BS on a gate with 40 of his pillowhumping friends on the reverse side riding that gate, ready to ream me the moment I jump. I never find truely solo pvp challenged beginners like this>< :D
Devestator	Posted - 2005.04.06 19:23:00 - [22] CCP Should put a count down Visual Aggression Timer some where on the screen so you know when you can dock or jump. Also a concord Aggro timer would be great too
Mrmuttley	Posted - 2005.04.06 19:33:00 - [23] Edited by: Mrmuttley on 06/04/2005 19:44:55 Originally by: Malken nubs in battleships learning pvp in battleships. i hope your raven wasnt insured either as it was your mining ship. /me waves to the troll and gently points out that hes been in the game almost as long as the troll prolly just followed a different career path to the sweet little troll. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hmmm I need a Sig
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.04.06 19:37:00 - [24] Acts of aggression are to avoid people using gates to instajump out in the case of them failing to win a battle. It would completely ruin PVP to eliminate them. -- The best description of alliances, ever:
Roshan longshot	Posted - 2005.04.06 19:37:00 - [25] I learned it the hard way also, shot a torpedo at a target hovering above the station. Note: splash damage applies... I did get him but when his buddies came in I figured to dock and repair while they camped the station. Well....station said "You a bad man, go away!!!" What else can I say...I did manage to pod it out of there.... Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter,pirate[/i] or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box and from this site.
Jaabaa Prime	Posted - 2005.04.06 20:33:00 - [26] Classic kill strategy. There are a lot more PvP lessons to be learned where that one came from Just get out of the BS and into a frigate or cruiser to learn the other lessons -- Intergalactic Teeth Pullers "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
ThePilgrim	Posted - 2005.04.06 21:57:00 - [27] Originally by: Cummilla I never find truely solo pvp challenged beginners like this>< :D We haven't met have we? ====================================== dolce et decorum est pro libertas mori
Brej Donierik	Posted - 2005.04.06 22:22:00 - [28] Edited by: Brej Donierik on 06/04/2005 22:25:43 Mrmuttley, CCP actually changed the gates specifically to block anyone who shoots, a while ago. I think, previously, you could have a war and then jump through right away, or try to tank the gate sentry guns and jump through to escape death by them. A lot of people abused this as an easy way to escape. So they changed gates to behave the way they do now. And, unfortunately, since the change was made on purpose, it's unlikely that they'll agree to remove it. Sorry about your loss.
Wild Rho	Posted - 2005.04.06 23:00:00 - [29] The way it works now discourages combat where people sit on gates and jump through once they think they are in any danger of loosing. With the current system a player needs to choose to either stay and fight, or run. Nothing needs fixed, it's working fine. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it...
Lygos	Posted - 2005.04.06 23:11:00 - [30] Gate aggression is bad if it prevents other avenues of game development which would encourage pursuit rather than sniping gankage.

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